Dealing with Patient Objections in My Cash-Based Clinic (Part 1) | CashPT Lunch Hour #70

Hello.

Welcome back to the podcast. This is Aaron Labourer, your host of the Cash PT Lunch Hour. Today we have a special episode for you. This is an episode on objections, and it's an objection training and masterclass that I did for our employees here at labauer Physical Therapy. And it's in so much depth and detail that we've decided to split up into two parts. So today is part one, and here's what this is going to do for you. So Tyler, my Cash PT resident, has been working here for almost a year and he came to me and said, you know, Aaron, you know, I'm struggling with the free total body diagnostics, with the free consultations. I think we're, we're closing about 43% of them. And I don't know what happened. Something happened over, you know, the last four or five months. So what we did was we did this training together and then immediately that week, Instead of being 40%, he was seven for seven. And then I think the next week he got one of three. So we went from 43% close rate to 90% close rate. And the important thing I want you to list for it's not just what Tyler is doing and it's not just what Amber was doing. There's a lot of language and training that is hopefully going to benefit you a ton. So part one is now you're going to have to tune in to part two next time and if this episode and the next episode help you in any way, please let me know about it or please tell us by leaving a rating and review on the podcast or sharing with it online and tagging us. Thanks so much and I hope you get a lot out of this episode. What we're going to do is go through all the objections we're to going getting and I want to go through also, like where, like let's. We're similar objections but. And how do we. And we're going to talk about how we meet them. We're going to do a little role playing maybe and we're going to do some. And we also got to go figure out where in the funnel is the breakdown. Okay, so there's a breakdown somewhere. So did you get list? Do you have numbers from the last few weeks?

The top portion is just like individual and then the bottom portion is.

Okay, so stat since December 3rd. So what? So explain.

So I went through and I found everybody. Everybody on that list are most of the people. I think I left one out. But most of the people that didn't convert, I was just the number line up there. I was just going week by week so I could see who we kept, who we didn't. And I. Even.

So no's are people that said no.

No's are other people. Well, nos are the people that emailed back, hey, I can't do it anymore. But there are also a couple people in there, at least two that converted to evals and paid, but still didn't come back in.

So people that. So explain that again. Sorry I was. So nos are people that.

Nos are just people we don't hire anymore.

But they may have come in once or twice.

Only once.

Only once, Minimum.

Once.

And yes.

I don't think there's anybody that's been in more than once and then dropped off.

Okay, so it's like. Okay, so is that first appointment. Are they paying for the eval the same day as the tbd? And then they're saying no.

So one guy said he was gonna run it through his insurance first and see what happened.

And I just.

I've not heard from him. I emailed him to see what was up, and then.

Was that someone else?

No, I actually emailed, but it's. And then the other guy who's not on there just kind of ghosted. And you can't even, like, get in contact with this guy. You have to talk to him. His secondary. Yeah, yeah, that guy. That guy that, like, doesn't do any of his own stuff. So I. I kind of got the impression that he was in there for a quick, quick fix on day one. So it wasn't really any skin off my back.

Yeah.

But the number 13 out of 29 is how many have. Have converted. And then in that little box at the bottom.

So we're like 45%. Yeah. Of all the TVDS. Okay. Since December 3rd, back in, like, July. August, we were, like, 80%.

Right.

Were we doing more DVDs then, or are we doing more now?

I didn't look, but I would guess that we're doing a lot more now.

Yeah, I think we're doing a lot more now.

Yeah. Okay.

I mean, your schedule's still pretty full.

Yeah, it has been. Yeah. This week is a. Is a down week. But I was actually looking at it at the end of last week, and I was like, if we keep. Keep this pace, we're gonna break that August record of.

For this month.

Reimbursement.

Yeah.

We also had 10 cancellations last week on top of the.

For what? For any.

Just.

Just.

And that wasn't any of these people.

That was just four so that's a big chunk.

Yeah. That is a big chunk.

Yeah. And then. Yeah. I mean, so there's probably. And then two of the evals that's scheduled within the same week. So there's another two. It's. So. But I'm gonna come sit back. So I'm just gonna run you down the list real quick.

Just.

I saw. I saw her yesterday. She is the first person that's ever straight up told me. I just. It's too expensive.

Yeah.

And I was like. And I. I think I asked her

after a series of questions, what can you discover?

All of these are discoveries. Except for it was a discovery, but I converted.

Okay.

But she. She was just. Straight up is too expensive. But I even asked her after. After asking her some questions for a little while. I was like, what would work for you? And she said, I don't know. Maybe, like, a hundred dollars? And I'm like, well, we have payment plans that break it down to that. She's just, like, just too rich for my blood right now. I wasn't expecting it to be that much. I'm gonna have to. I'll just. I'll just try to hope that. I think she. She said something weird that made me think that she wasn't gonna follow up on. I was like, okay, well, at the very least, please don't do that. Here's what I'm gonna do. I'm writing a book right now on hip pain. I'm gonna send that to you as soon as it's done. Secondly, I'm gonna give you the information for. I think I gave her Greensboro Orthodox, one of the two mills. And I was like, I want you to go there and set up an appointment. I'm gonna call her in three weeks. Other people on this list, she's one of the ones where I'm fairly confident I can get back unless she just goes and meets somebody that magically actually cares and pays attention to her. So, you know, that's one.

He

was in the form.

Yeah.

He was like. His first question to me was, do you all take insurance yet? And I was like, this is. This is not gonna be awesome.

Right.

Because I. Because that was before I even told him that we had raised our prices,

but it's been six years or something since he was a patient.

Yeah. So I was like. So I was like, you were coming in when it was super different from what it is now. But he was on board and then said, after considering my options, the company's inability to run insurance and having to pay the Amount is just something I'm uncomfortable with. So I emailed him yesterday and said, hey, man, I noticed you weren't on the schedule. I was worried about you, what's going on? And he just emailed me via like a forwarded or attached message that he said sent to Amber. Like, didn't, didn't say anything directly to me. It just repeated what he said to her. And I responded to that.

So which is. Which is your inability to take insurance. Yeah, yeah.

So I responded to that. We'll see what comes of it. But I. He was, he seemed on board with everything I was saying, was like nodding his head and going, yep, that sounds great. Makes. Makes a lot of sense. Let's do it. And I. We even ran his card or we're going to. I thought maybe I'm wrong. But he sat there and scheduled like three or four appointments.

So after you talk about price, he schedules three or four appointments?

Yeah.

I showed him the payment plan, like menu as well, and we went over it together in person and he sounded completely on board. And I said, would you like me to send you like a follow up email so you can have time to mull things over? And he's like, yeah, that'd be great. And then it was just like, okay.

So there was no way she was gonna come see us at all. Even if she had to pay a copay. I think she would have said no. That just wasn't gonna happen.

I mean, you still have a copay with Medicare.

That's what I'm saying. No, I think it's free.

Oh, it's free?

Yeah, I think it's free.

So did you guys send her to John or something like that?

I don't remember who we sent her to. John or.

We ended up just sending her to like Greensboro pt.

She was. Remind me to get John's ideal patient from you.

Yeah.

Because she was kind of. I didn't want to put her on him because she was a little bit.

Okay, fair enough.

Yeah.

Yes.

Oh, and all these stars mean that they should be our patient or for our patient. The rest of them.

Yeah.

Skeptical, but.

Oh, the guy just said, oh, I just spent this money on him for chiropractic. Okay.

I've talked to him to try and set up a phone time.

Yeah, he's unsure. Basically he's unsure it's going to work for him.

This time he responded to me. I sent him a free. I sent him the ebook for free.

We should mail him a physical copy.

Okay, yeah, sure.

Like that's the kind of Person's like, we know you're our person. Here, here's a physical copy. So we'll go back.

Well, yeah, she was younger, like 30s, like, like 32ish. Was a vet tech or something. Like a lab tech. Yeah, yeah. Mentioned at some point that I think she like lives at home with her. Anyways, she, from my memory, said it was too expensive without insurance. Right. That's what she. That's what she wrote. Yeah, I know. She's another one that scheduled an appointment and then just gone.

So she scheduled both of these guys.

Actually, all of these guys scheduled. She was the first one that just was like, nope. But both of these guys scheduled out.

And even when I'm going over the payment plans with them in person, and I reiterate and I say, you know what it says on this menu? This is just like our basic, most used payment plan options. But I said, if this doesn't work for you, we are flexible. I was like, so we can work something out.

Great.

Because even if a hundred dollars is too much, but they still wanted to be our patient. I feel like we could wiggle a little bit.

Okay, fair enough.

She was youngish, like 20. She's a student, and basically her mom was bankrolling and she said like, I doubt that's gonna. I doubt even the. Because we gave her like a 20 week payment plan option too. And she was like, no, I can't do it.

Did we just get on with another mom?

Well, I told her before she even came in because I could tell by her voice that she was really young. And I just said, you know, I explained to her, you know, how much it cost. And I was like, you know, is that gonna be okay? And she's like, yeah, yeah. She made it sound like not a problem at all. And I think she was just like over her head. And when she came in and then she still seemed like, not a problem. But then, you know, I made her write down her mom's info and then, you know, explained with her mom and

it was just not talk to her mom.

Actually, I did not speak with her. I couldn't get a hold of her. But she ended up emailing me and like ceasing her daughter on it and was like, we can't do this.

I was like, all right, yeah, okay. So.

And I offered to get on the phone. She had to kind of.

I kind of want to go. I want to go through them and then come back and respond. But part of that is, you know, it's like, well, Mom Jones, you know, before, you know, you decide whether you can or can't do this. Is it okay if we talk on the phone and you know. Yeah, like, because what. Her ex. Her experience of physical therapy might be a ptml, and she's like, helmda, hell, no, I'm not doing that. But it's. Yeah, you like that? Well, people send it to us.

I don't.

I didn't get them. You know, it's like, it's promo. Promo company sends it to you, man, I got plenty. Okay. Okay, so let's go through them and then let's try to come back through and talk through the comments here.

Was. Was just screaming your face. Pelvic floor. Like, I could not have been more positive. So I centered a Wilda, and I expect her actually to be back. Unless Wilda makes her completely better if she does.

Great. You know, did we call Wilda and let her know that's.

I've actually tried to. Did we.

No.

Okay. Because I tried to call her. I can't really get her during work hours, so I'm gonna try today after work or during lunch if I can.

So that's like, call Wilda, and if you need her number, I'll give it to. Hey, Wilda. We're sending it, like, so when we're sending someone to John or Wilda or someone, hey, we're sending a patient over to you. Because if the patient doesn't go, it's like, hey, we've sent. At least we're getting in. Like, hey, we've sent someone to you. I just want to give you a heads up that, you know, Dr. Shelton saw this first and knew this is a primary pelvic floor issue. Maybe a couple other things going on, but we need them to see you first. Their name is.

You know, I normally do that. I do that with John. I do that with Derek, but I just didn't have her info.

Yeah, who? Wilda's info or this patient's info? Wilda. I'll have her like, oh, it's on my phone. Write it down and ask me for it. I'll get you all this info. Okay.

We had a patient from Durham that saw Derek. Like, was a previous patient saw Derek. Amber was like, hey, just, by the way, Derek's in Durham. She was like. She was like, no, I want to see you guys came in. I was like, hey, you know Derek's in Durham, right? She's like, he is. That's awesome. Yeah, I would love to go see him. And I was like, yeah, it's okay.

Yeah, she came here for the five o' clock appointment. She was like, that commute was horrendous. And I was like, I was trying to save you the commute. But her boyfriend lives here, so she's here every other weekend. So she kind of wanted to like.

Oh, the woman. Okay, so there's a different couple where the woman lives?

Yeah, she wanted to, you know, get treatment here, but then when Dr. Shelton told her that he was there, I

was like, hey, you know, we can, I can treat you today if you want me to, but. And by no means am I trying to push you away, but Derek isn't Durham. She's like, yeah, that'd be great. Let's treat today and then I'll just go to terms. Cool.

Okay, so which. Who was that?

I didn't put her on here.

Okay.

Okay, so we hit her. So she was a 22 year old, just had surgery and sat on her broken ankle for like six months. They had met their deductible. Her and her husband wanted to use something in network because it was going

to be for free.

Fair enough. Yep.

I mean, and they really liked us too. Yeah, they both came in as a couple to do it together. He like scheduled her appointment for her.

So that's a follow up with them in two weeks. Because if they're not. Are you getting pt?

They're not happy.

No, we haven't gotten yet. All right, well, let's get you, let's get you in. If they're unhappy with your level of service, well, you know, we're here for you. Like, yes, I understand you're deductible, but it's like if they're like they were both great and everything, follow up with them every week. Make sure they're getting exactly what she needs, you know, no matter what. Hey, can we send you our T shirt? If this is someone we want now, you know, like they maybe will come back next year, you know, when they haven't met their deductible, it's a problem. If we go above it, it's going

to be a problem.

Frankly. She jumped off a rope swing and had to have emergency like reconstructive ankle surgery.

So if she's going somewhere in network, this problem is likely not going away. So we want to make sure that they come to see us in 2020.

And I kind of, that's long term.

It's like, you know, we gotta send her some stickers, a T shirt, you know, one of our, one of our books or something. Okay.

And I kind of put A little comment in there because her husband's in nursing school and seems like he's try to be as on top of things as he can in terms of her medical care. Yeah, I was like, make sure they're doing this. Not a certain technique that's like, make sure that they're retraining you with your foot on the ground. You see somebody pull out some bands and start wiggling you back and forth and doing all that. Ask questions, make sure you're getting what you need. Because yeah, that ankle is not going to recover the way that it should and it's going to be a problem forever. So, you know, maybe if they. I agree. If they're upset, then they won't be. This guy is trained for a triathlon and his hip was hurting. It was pretty classic. Anyways, I treated him, I rolled him into a treatment. He seemed pretty on board. And then he was, I'm gonna run it through my insurance and see what happens. And then he is just, I'm running

through my insurance and see what happens. Like I'm gonna go to an insurance based clinic or I'm gonna run this visit through my insurance and see what

happened before I continue to see what, see what's covered.

Okay, how much longer, Mr. Jones? How much longer are you willing to wait? Like I've trained for a triathlon. Like, well, how important is this triathlon?

Yeah. And it would be great to ask those questions, but he has just dropped off the face of the earth.

So remember, so those questions need to. You're like, those need to be hit before he's out that first day.

If I think he's on board, do I need.

Right, you think he's on board, but you need to dig no matter what. Like he's on board. So here's like this is. And we're only halfway through, but here's the pattern. It's like, yes, they're on board, but what we need to do is we're not getting to their. Why? It's probably where these people aren't willing to give it up as easy, but we gotta get down those days. Tell me about the triathlon. How long have you been training for this triathlon? Like this one? To me, this is easy. It's like, how long have you been training for this? Eight months. Okay, mister, when did you start training for triathlons? Why is it so important that you do really well at this upcoming triathlon? Oh, it's just because I've always wanted to push my body. Okay, well, why is pushing your Body something that you're willing to make sacrifices for. So it's like, how willing, how much? On a scale of 0 to 10, how committed are you to doing everything in your power to make sure that you, you get the best result in this triathlon? I'm a 10. Okay. Mr. Jones, you just told me you were a 10 and able to do everything that was possible. Yeah. So you know what I mean? What I'm saying is like, I think they're saying they're on board, but what they're really doing is they just don't want to tell you no to your face. And we talked about this the other day. It's setting up this, this call, and basically we're gonna go through the rest. But it's, it's just like, you get this point where it's like, okay, here's a pattern. Like, what is the commonality? And it's, okay, let's pre frame what this discussion is gonna be like, you know, and it's, it's almost one of those ones where at the beginning we gotta look at these and say, okay, this is what, Mr. Jones, you're here for a total body diagnostic, rediscovery, Whatever. We've got about 20 minutes. This is how it's going to go. I'm going to ask you some questions. I'm going to take you through a full body movement exam and I'm going to give you my recommendation. And based on how we get along, we'll decide whether to move forward. Sound good? Great. Okay. You know, Mr. Jones, there's two ways. There's really three answers you can give me at the end of our session. Yes, let's do physical therapy. And then at that point we can just turn this into an eval. I can start treating you today, get you home with some results. The other option is no. Like, okay, no, this doesn't sound like it works for me. Okay, great. And that's totally fine. I get it. And that's what this is about. To help you make a decision about what to do. The third option is I need to think about it or I need to see if my insurance is going to pay. And usually when people say that, what they really mean is no. They just don't want to hurt my feelings. But you know, Mr. Jones, I'm busy. Like, I've got, I got what, two dozen more patients? I got 25 more patients this week. Like, you're not going to hurt my feelings if you say no. If you're a yes, great. If you're a I need to bring my spouse in and meet with you one more time. Like, let's do one more free meeting. You know, that's more of a yes. And I need to bring the other people in on my team. But just promised me one thing. At the end of this, you'll give me either a yes or a no. Because pretty much every time someone says I need to see if my assurance work is going to do it or I need to think about, what they really mean is no. And I just don't want to waste your time or mind, does that sound fair enough? Because it's not gonna hurt my feelings. You won't hurt my feelings. Fair enough. And then we'll get more no's rather than ghosting. And I need to think about it. But I think what that does is that sets up the expectation a little bit. And then there's a piece on your end that I think we'll work on in a minute too, is how do we set people up so that they're coming in? Because we can look at these people and say, these people might be different than everyone in August based on the way you're getting more comfortable and doing some things. And I think in some of the conversations I've listened to from you, it's like, okay, maybe there's another piece to that. But it's, can we frame it so that, look, we're going to talk for 20 minutes, I'm going to take you through a full body thing, and then I'll give you my recommendation. And once I give you a recommendation, if you feel like we're a good fit, like we're going to turn this into an eval, but you're going to tell me yes or no. And then if it's, I need to think about it, or you're just hesitant, like, I know some people are hesitant to commit. Just let me know. If you're hesitant to commit, it's a no, not right now. But if you need some more time to think about if we're the right fit, just say, no, not right now. But can I come in for another discovery visit next week with my other spouse? Or tell me, like, I need to know. It's more of like a, you know, people come in and they say, no, it's because we haven't answered the right question. And I'm going to do my best to ask you the right questions. But people who, you know, it's kind of like people who say yes know we can help them and know that and understand how we're different than everyone else and how we're right for them and we're not right for everybody. But if you're still uncertain about what you need to do and where you need to go, it's likely that I haven't asked you the right question. You can, like you're predicting that if they say no, it's because I haven't asked you the right question. So then what happens is you say, then it's all right. Mr. Jones, what question can I answer for you today that would help you feel confident that working together with us is the right decision? So it's like I pre framed all this stuff and then I tell them what the possible answers are going to be. Because now that we've got this, we know. It's like, you know what I know, like people who say it's too expensive,

it's not too expensive.

I know it's expensive, but it's in. But we help people. But it's an investment. But it's what's a couple thousand dollars when your option is getting no results for six months, Going and getting a surgery, getting an infection, getting no better, even dying in surgery, going to get an MRI that costs more and scares you and gives you no results. Like, we get it, it's expensive, it's an investment. And we've got, we know we help people, we help people all the time who've been other places and have gotten no results. People come back to us after six months or years saying, I should have come to see you first. I don't want that to be you. I want to make sure you get what you need now. So, you know, let's figure out what it is that you want and I'll tell you if I can help you get that. What do you really want to have happen? Like, I know it's your shoulder that hurts, so what's that keeping you from, you know what I mean? So now I've gone and I've set up how this conversation is going to go, what some of these possible answers are. I've already predicted the possible, like objections, you know, and it's like, I know some people say it's too expensive,

but

people think it's too expensive. What they really mean is they don't think it's to work for them. Because if you knew it was going to work for them, this chiropractor guy, if he knew it was going to work for him, he'd pay. He was just let down before. So it's acknowledging part of that, is acknowledging that You've been let down that you're uncertain it's going to work. And look, mister, I can't act. There's not a magic pill. If there was a, if the room in the back had a switch with your name on it, all I had to do is flip. I go do that and I charge you 50 bucks and we'd be done. But I can't do that. I don't have that switch. But I know that you see all of our Testimonials. We've got 55, five star reviews. We've got hundreds of testimonials. Thousands of patients who've been through here after they've been somewhere else and got better after coming to see us. We can't help everybody. But that's why we send some people out the world, some people to Dr. Rigby, some people that hear, et cetera. And it's like, so what I'm doing is from my experience, you've now done more of these than I have. You've done more of these calls than I have. So now it's from your experience, can you start predicting to people this is how you're going to feel? And if you feel this or think this, we know that we're missing the mark. So we'll take responsibility for missing the mark. Some people can't afford it. Some people don't have money in the bank. But that's maybe two people on here. Okay. It's okay. We know it's expensive. We don't have to explain it to them. But we know the dentist is also expensive. People don't see yet. So our conversation can't be about the physical therapy. It's about got to be about what

is it that

they really want. And if we're not finding that out, then it's too expensive. So for the triathlon guy, what is it that he really wants? It's not to complete the triathlon. This guy has a. I guarantee he's got $5,000 in equipment. He's got at least $500 invested in this, the triathlon. If he doesn't have a coach coaching him on training, he's wasting his time. If he does have a coach, he needs to have a physical coach, a body coach, a physical therapist, you know, who's only going to. It's a frat. I mean, working with us is less than a wheel set. It's less than an aero wheel set. What's going to make you faster? $5,000 carbon wheels or being more comfortable on your bike? Because I know being More comfortable on your bike is going to make you much faster. So we didn't find out. Like, for him, one, my experience at racing bikes like that helps me understand, like, I know where he is at some of these other people. It's a mystery. It's like the chiropractor. The guy said, we've already done $2,000 in chiropractic. Do we know what it is that's driving him to seek and what is he missing out on? If we know that thing and we put it in their face and they're not willing to acknowledge what they're missing out on, then that's on them. But we have to find out what that thing is.

He even admitted to me over the phone. He was like, I'm 30 years old, and I can't even bend over to tie my shoe without discomfort. And I was just like, he, yeah, that's like, no way to live. I was like, I'm 32, you know, and I was like, in that you can't live like that. And he also kind of confided in Tyler that he's, like, maybe planning on having a baby this next year. And it's like, well, if you can't bend over to tie your shoe, how do you think you're gonna bend over and play with your child or bend over the crib and pick up your newborn?

How much longer is he willing to wait? So here is like, it's like, how much longer are you willing to stay exactly where you are or even with. Like, with. With. If I'm talking about your business, like, your business isn't going to grow. But if I'm talking about your body, how much longer are you willing to stay where you are or even let it get worse? How much longer you willing to, you know, tolerate this getting worse? You know, it's like that maybe, like, this other direction that, like, I like to keep it positive and keep it, you know, but sometimes we got to go down and find out, like, what is. We have to dig a little bit. Like, what are you afraid of happening if you don't do anything about this problem? Oh, it's getting worse.

What if, you know, hypothetically, you check back up on this patient and, you know, and then he says, you know, how are you doing? Like, have you found someone to help you? And he's like, yeah, actually, I ended up going somewhere in network. And, you know, it seems to be doing okay.

Seems to be doing okay. Okay. Is it okay if I ask you a few other questions? Sure. You know? Well, are You. Are you getting all the results that you want? Not yet, but we're getting there. Okay. Do you expect to get all the results? Do you expect to feel the way, you know, like you can go back and look what he said to get, you know, Are they asking. Did you. Did they ask you about this? You know, about. Do they know that you want to have, you know, like, you're afraid of not being able to play with your kids when you have kids? No, we never talked about that. Do they know about these things and your goals of doing this? No. Okay.

All right.

Do you feel confident that you'll be able to get there where you are? Yes. Okay.

Wait. Is it.

Mr. Jones is okay if I check in? Yeah. How much longer did they recommend for PT? You know, four more weeks and three times a week.

Okay.

Mr. Is it okay if I check in with you in four weeks and just make sure that you're better at that time? Sure. I mean, I don't know why someone saying no to you.

Yeah.

Okay, great. Four weeks. Like, Mr. Jones, you know, you told. Remember a month ago you told me your therapy would be over right now? How are you doing? Are you fully back to this? Are you fully confident. Are you 100% confident that you'll be able to do this? People would be lying if they all said yes, because I know that's not the case. And there are some people just getting off the couch and going and riding a bike is all they need. Our people expect more than being able to do that. So, you know, if they're there and they're getting at what they expect, then you don't need to follow up with them every week. Hey, so when do you expect. Like, when did they tell you? Like, how much longer are you going to be in pt? What did they recommend? If they don't know? Or whatever, it's like, okay, let me. If they know, it's like, yeah, they said in six weeks. Okay, let me call you back in six. Is it okay if I call you in six weeks and just make sure everything is calm as planned? Because then all that is is service, and then next time, maybe they'll choose us. Or six months from now when they're no better or they're not, they'll remember like, we were the ones that called.

Right.

Or friend. But no one else is going to. Here's where. Yes, go above a minute. This is where your job is pivotal. And Tyler, following up with is pivotal is that no one else is going to follow up with them. The way that we Follow up. Paul says the fortune's in the follow up. Everyone says the fortune. The fortune is in the follow up. Even if they're not our patient right now, they'll be. Unless they tell us. Stop calling me. You know, even if you just leave them. Hey, Mrs. Jones, this is Amber. Just calling to let you know we're thinking about you. Hope you're doing well. I'd love to hear from you. I'd love to hear back from you and know how you're doing. Because last time we spoke, you were. You were in a lot of pain and unable to do X, Y, and Z. I'd just love to know if you're.

If you've got that back yet.

Because we. Basically. Because we care about you. We care about you.

I can say that.

And it's not weird.

Yeah, we care about you. Basically. We want to show them we care about them more than anyone else.

Yeah, because we do.

Right? Because we do. We have the time.

I've never had anyone else call me back and follow up from an appointment.

Never. Never.

So here's the deal. I can go through and tell you every single one of these persons why, without going and looking at my notes. So I wouldn't say that I'm not finding them, but I don't think. I think where I'm struggling is asking the right questions to get them to see why that's important to them. I don't think. I think the reason that these people are falling off is not that I can't find it, is that I can't show them that that's as important to them as what brought them in the door to me.

Here's the problem. You're good. You're confident. You recognize. You're now starting to recognize when someone. When you read the note, someone walks in exactly where the problem is. You're starting to recognize patterns. And it's like, I know I can help you. I got to a point where it's like, I knew I could help people, but what I didn't realize was how important it was. Like, I wasn't getting buy in. People were telling me it was too expensive, and it was $95 or $110. It's too expensive. Right. Okay. Because I know without taking you through, I don't need to use the sfma. I don't need to do. I don't need to talk to you. All I need to do is get you. I've treated so many people. I just need to get you on a table, move you around a little. Bit I know exactly where the problem is. If you say, my hip hurts, touch three or four places, I'll find a spot. I can get you better. I don't need to. The questions, the physical exam, it's all to prove to the patient we know where the problem is. Because they're not going to believe if I look at them unless one of their friends says, Dr. Labourer is magic, you've got to go see him. Just do whatever you want, Mary. Joey says you're magic. I'm here because they trust someone who, I mean, they're already like with Joey. Especially when he was referring people to us, it was like, they're Joey's client, they're Joey's forever. And because he's done such a great job at coaching them, it's like, you need to go see Aaron. All right? I mean, it's like whatever, whatever it costs. One or two people would be like, oh, it's too expensive. Oh, I didn't ask for a. I wouldn't ask him the right questions at times.

But

it's taking them through the physical exam, touching where it hurts, asking them and finding like getting them to acknowledge what the real motivator is to us is as important for the buy in and the sale as anything else is fixing them. That's why it's the whole first visit or first couple visits, all about buy in. It's not even about treating patients. But remember, unless they pay, they don't pay attention. So look, part of the reason we say eight visits is because you're going to pay for the first visit. We're not going to treat much in the first visit. It's like six visits and then there's a seventh visit, like one month follow up and not in even. But they're paying for the first visit. So what? They're getting the result they want. It's so like, I think what probably what's happening is this summer you weren't recognizing, you were probably asking more. There's two things that I think it's either we've more people in now because Amber's offering this to more people. Okay? So our percentage is gonna be lower, but the number of people we convert is probably about the same. The number of people staying for evals. Look, I mean we had a record month in August. It's back to school month. January is back to, you know, commitment month, fitness month, you know, I mean, it's not like you're seeing 12 people a week. Yeah, you know, it's like 21 people, 21 treatments, five evals and five TBDs last week or the week before. And that's dope. Like, that's. That's really great. I'd love it to be 30 treatments in 5 and 5. But I'm not actually working on that. I've got to work on that. I'm trying to find someone to hire someone so then I can. Let me go work on that. And I'm working on some other stuff. So part of it is, I think I'll get back to you, is I think you're seeing. Okay, I know you know what it is. So remember, the questions aren't for you. The questions are for them. So we gotta get there in touch. It's our job. And a lot of times I would come into people and say, why are you really here? And they don't, like, don't really know. And so I just get frustrated. But it's my job. It's our job to help them get in touch with themselves, with their body, with what's important. I just want the pain to go away. Okay, well, what's the pain keeping you from doing nothing? I do everything. All right, Mrs. Jones? Well, if you do nothing about this, what are you afraid of missing out on if you don't do anything? Or what are you afraid of happening if the pain continues? So it may not be what is keeping them from doing. It's what they're afraid it's going to turn into. So we got to find out where is that thing? Okay, we find it and then we have to dig. What's a good analogy? It's like, it's not good enough to just pop the pimple. We gotta get all that other stuff out of there, irritate the shit out of it, and then we can put a band aid on it, right? Yeah, you know, we got it. We gotta press gently. And then if they start moving away, will we press a little harder? You know, we don't want to push, but we don't get it. We are so. So, you know, I mean, it's. So. Let me. Let's see, let's see. Had surgery on the other issue. And ghosted. So we got down the hair. Had surgery on another issue.

She was our patient. I was fairly confident was going to do it. She.

She's a referral, too, from a current patient called in.

Yeah, she was pretty teed up. She called in and we talked about this when I saw her, but she was like, hey, turns out that my surgery is going to be a little quicker than I thought it was. So I just want to pro. I just want to put it off until after that surgery because I don't know what they're going to tell me I can and can't do. I was like, well, after surgery, she had like something in her uterus.

Okay, okay.

Like a cyst or something. It was just supposed to be like a removal.

And I was like, well, you know, that's not going to. That's not going to kill us. Because she was kind of.

Was she coming in for a hip issue?

She had pain everywhere.

Oh, she had like a widespread pain thing that was probably gonna be a hormonal something from the ovarian cyst.

I think I found mechanical issues and even like did a little bit of work just to show her and it made it feel better. So maybe, maybe some of it, but not all of it. Anyways, I thought she was gonna be fairly salvageable and in contact and just

nothing like follow ups.

Like, I've called her several times and she'll put me through voicemail and I'll leave something I'm ever getting back that's happened more than once.