Healing Mold, CIRS, & Biotoxin Illness (CIRS Q&A): Episode 7

Welcome back everybody. We are so excited to be here. Once again, this is the last episode of us talking about sirs, Chronic Inflammatory response Syndrome, mobility illness. Hopefully you've already put your questions out there because that's what we're doing today. We're going through all the questions you asked. If you haven't liked us, followed us, subscribe, Share. Those are all the things that can help get this information out. But also for those who had questions, let me know a new episode pops up so you can get your listen to your questions being answered. So we're going to hop into it and go through all these things. There we go. So actually, there we go, There we go. Awesome. So the first question is actually from YouTube. You mentioned the cell danger response. Please describe it, talk about it. Is this valid a model for chronic illness and what is a treatment protocol for it? Cell danger response. In my mind it's kind of like the advanced next level of chronic inflammatory response syndrome of all chronic illnesses. So why don't you, Dr. Jenski, kind of explain to us what this thing is, then we could talk a little bit about that.

I think it is the model for chronic illnesses and why we're seeing such a rise as you mentioned and alluded to. And the validity of it has been proven by Robert Navio and his work. And ultimately that was kind of pioneering it almost to the point where on the back end of him describing it and all the people reading about it, learning about it and discussing it, it was like, okay, we have a medical text that we've learned. Now we need a second medical text that accounts for all all this new information that kind of centers around this. And ultimately it boils down to the mitochondria and how they are essentially our canary in the coal mine. The mitochondria is the cell sensor. It's detecting internal and external environmental inputs and then telling the cell informing the cell what to do next. Do we continue to repair? Do we regenerate? Do we shut down? And in this case it's the shutting down. And so there's literally a cycle that the mitochondria are kind of bioenergetically cloning themselves out or biogenically cloning themselves out and making all the things that they make for the body to work appropriately in the setting of an individual that isn't sick in this situation, a signal, an injury, a trauma, a toxin is detected and. And the system says it's time to go from being a power plant to being a battleship. Let's shut it down. So you have A rest of the cycle. And you will not complete that cycle and repair and regenerate until a the perceived or true injury, toxin, insult, infection, et cetera is resolved. And then that cycle can be turned back on. Because sometimes it's enough to just remove whatever that insult is and then switches back on. Other times you got to remove the insult and then nudge it along and hope that they're not stuck in this kind of fixed state of cell danger response. And that's where the whole limbic dysfunction and other things kind of get come into play. So the shortest version is that it's literally your mitochondria going from being power plants to becoming battleships. I'm no longer making energy, now I'm carrying in the corner because we're under attack, we're fighting. And we flip into this inefficient state of metabolism called aerobic glycolysis, and it's a rest of resolution and repair.

I think one thing that's really interesting is it also explains why patients who would give them muffling agents, give them nutrients, they have the opposite reaction. They hurt. It's like you have no B1, you have no megas, you have whatever. And now they're having these crazy responses. It's because their cells are stuck and you're trying to make them go forward in the cell cycle. And so that's now explains to us these patients who had paradoxical, the opposite reaction expectorant therapies because of this thing. And so all of a sudden, like, there's that aspect of it, then there's also the aspect of it which I think Dr. Neal Nathan talks about, which I think is really insightful, that you do all this stuff, you remove the mold, the Lyme, you plead the nutrients. But the brain, the limbic system, the spinal cord, the autonomic nervous system, still thinks danger, Will Rogers danger kind of thing, you know. And so then it's like the brain retraining comes into place after you've done everything, which has been our clinical experience, and it's been the experience of people doing this for years now. We actually have a biological model that explains these weird reactions to folate and B vitamins and why you gotta do brain retraining for these patients.

There's memory, right? There's memory with these instances. So when a cell itself, the mitochondria itself detects danger, whether that's a cell extracellular, the presence of extracellular ATP or DNA damage, or a toxin, or damage to the lipid bilayer or whatever the case, there's all these different insults or even just like a shearing force and traumatic stress, there's a whole host of mechanisms by which the cell says something's not right. And when it determines that something's not right, the mitochondria determining that informs the cell that we have to do this now. And this is self preservation.

So.

So you're coming along whether you like it or not, but there's memory attached to that situation, just like you have memories attached to traumatic events in your life. Even though that trauma is long gone, you still have some hardwired traumatic innate response. That's where this comes into play. And so in order for this loop to kind of finish and to get that cycle turned back on and to get the resolution and the repair again, it goes back to, not only do you have to figure out what harmed it, what sent this signal to begin with, and what do I do about that then? Do I have to start doing something about the memory? Do I have to create a state of amnesia almost, or do I have to rewire the system? And that's important because that lends itself towards hypersensitivity. I mean, think about all the hypersensitivity patients that you see that have these hurts reactions that you described that can't tolerate anything, that you give them a little bit of extra fiber and they feel worse. Like it's just kind of. It's sad, but true. And, and those are the patients that are clearly hardwired in this way. And that is, at its core, chronic diseases, but for us, very much a centerpiece of sirs. This is the cornerstone of sirs. SIRS is a mitochondrial illness. It is mitochondrial toxicity. It's hypometabolism. It's a stuck cell danger response. It's flipping into aerobic glycolysis. And that's where you are until you get your environment right. You eradicate Marcons, you normalize the vcs, you get them on vip, and you.

Turn the cycle back on. So this is like the next generation of stuff. This is like part of that advanced chronic inflammatory response stuff which neither one of us learned in our training. Neither one of us learned. Literally, I'm like, how many? Five, six years to this? And now I'm just learning about this. But it makes everything else makes so much more sense once you understand this. This is an interesting question. What percentage of your patients in free recovery. We talked about this before. Considers what's the average time frame when patients start to see improvement in clear mark ons?

This is just a. This, this it's, it's, it comes from a place of frustration. I get this because as a, as a CSRS patient who has recovered from sirs, there's, you know, there's 1%, right? Like, I don't know, it depends on the number that you're pulling from. But, but the reality is, is that this is completely situation and patient specific and it depends on the why behind CSRS. Now we've talked in other videos about statistics and 80% of CSRS patients are sick building and 20% of the outliers. And some of that's Lyme, some of it's other infections, some of that' traumatic brain injury. Some of that's X, Y and Z. And so A, it depends on why they have sirs, and then B, if it's an ongoing issue, how quickly they get better depends on how quickly they address the stuff that's outside of our hands. So I can handle the medical aspect, you can handle that. And it's still complicated. But then when you're layering in that this is your home and we're factoring in the price tag of remediation versus moving and contractors and their competency versus incompetency, like did we find everything? Are we doing all the right things? There's so many variables, so many layers and it just stacks on. There's no linearity to it. The clearing of mark ons is the rate limiting step. It pisses everybody off. I'm in the same boat. Took me two years to see a negative mark on result. But in hindsight it's because I didn't know that I had an ongoing exposure. When I was traveling for work, I was frustrated because I did all the things to get my home right. But I was an ER doctor in locum, staying in a hotel for a week at a clip once or twice a month. And so it was like, of course I was taking a mold hit and so I would come back thinking, oh, it must still be my home, but in reality it wasn't. And when I finally put two and two together and I stopped traveling, I eradicated Marcons because my home truly was right and I moved forward. So it's dependent on the individual. I have a couple of individuals that have already gotten their home buttoned up and by the time they see me, they just need proof that something was wrong. A documentation of CSRs, some anti inflammatory binding, one course of marcons treatment and they're better. But that's the exception to the rule like that, that's just really rare. I mean, is that your experience as well?

Yeah, my experience. If we catch it on the front end, like you've had surge for three, six months, maybe less than a year. We catch it early. And you the dress the house immediately. You dress your diet immediately, you dress your mark ons immediately. You do all this stuff immediately. Yeah, I've seen people turn around three, four months. How often does that happen? That's uncommon. When that happens, I jump up and down. I'm so excited. I'm like, it works, it works.

That's the impetus to go on.

That's the impress to go on. Life. Yeah. Go on with this. Because you're like, it works, right? More often than not, this has been going for 5, 10, 15 years. The brain's hardwired in this cell. Danger response. And even when you do everything right, it's so hard to convince people that your brain's been rewired, it's been wired for illness. They almost interpret it as. It's all in my head. I've actually had this conversation with people. Are you saying I'm crazy? Are you saying it's not real? No, no, no. This is like. This is called psychoneuroimmuno endocrinology. This is like the mind body thing, whatever you wanna call it. It's like the deep magic of what we do where your mind literally controls everything. And that because we stigmatize that so much and people have been gas lit. It's all in your head. Nothing's wrong with you. You know, all this kind of stuff that when you say, let's work on.

This, they're hearing you saying the same thing differently.

Yeah. And that's where it's. And I've had patients that's taken 1, 2, 3 years to find it, to the point that. Okay, I think I believe what you're saying. Yeah. Almost start some stuff.

Yeah.

And my patients do that. And that's when everything, like all the whites start flipping on everything starts changing. They start healing. Yeah. And so it's everybody think this is true precision, individualized medicine. You have to trust it. But you like to say, gotta trust the process. You say it to your patients all the time. Trust the process, walk through it. And the thing is, if you're not getting better, we're missing something. What is it? Yeah. And I say it all the time. What am I missing? You know, am I missing some weird infection and whatever. Are you still getting exposed? And when you do that two or three times, then it's always like, okay, done this wash and repeat, wash and Repeat and almost. I don't say almost all. Nine times out of ten, it's like your brain is stuck in this trauma state and we have to literally rewire your brain. And that realization sometimes is harder than my house is an issue. I had a tick bite. You know, sometimes that's harder because it's.

Way harder, because it's so less tangible. And it's, it's a lot of personal work that's also difficult because it's revisiting something that you are repressing or it's revisit. Revisiting something you didn't even know was there or an aspect of your health that isn't even really all the time objectively measurable. And so it's one thing when I tell someone something and they believe me. Great. And they don't believe me, but then I show them objective data and now they believe me. But what if I tell them something and they don't believe me and I have no objective data? And it's like this is just based on my clinical acumen and the fact that all this other objective data looks good and I don't think we're missing anything. It's a little bit of a harder sell. But then when they kind of commit to it and all of a sudden things start to get better, that's that aha moment. But you got to get that patient there. And the reality is you got to meet them where they're at. And if they're not ready for it, they're not ready for it. If you push them, you'll make them worse. And so that's part of the process too. Sometimes trust the process is maybe we just hold space right now and we don't move forward. But when there's low hanging fruit and before you expand out to look for more problems like go after the low hanging fruit, that's the only thing that's logical in my opinion. So the next one is, do you only do the pupil test or tremor test? And this was when you were talking about physical exam findings that were kind of cool. Just for sirs or just for dysautonomia patients.

The tremor test specifically is one of the like the physical dental criteria associated people with crack inflammatory response syndrome. So it's not a diagnostic thing and it's part of your physical exam. I think I have these things. You do physical exam and when you see that tremor, you see that well toward the adrenal pupil. In a second it's like, yes, I've got physical exam findings. It's like someone's. If someone's a head injury, concussion, you're doing, like, their neurological exam. They close their eyes, they fall over. It's like, okay, cool, you had it. You really did have a concussion, right? And you close your eyes, and now the room spins kind of thing. The pupil test is more of a marker for. Is there a dysregulation of your autonomic nervous system between your sympathetic and parasympathetic. I'm in the room with a patient. I don't feel like I'm a threatening person. Shine a bright light in their eye, and their brain says, bright light. That's parasympathetic, which is part of the rest and digest, it goes down. But their brain is like, no, no, no, no, I'm not safe. And so it pushes it back open. But then the brain's like, no, no, no. Bright light. And so you see that. You can literally see this undulation. Yeah, yeah. And it's such a cool thing to see, because when you feel see it, you're like, I think I've done with some patients that done a video of it, because they're like, what was that? And they see it. They're like, that is weird. And that's that battle. So it tells me that there's a degree of dysautonomia. Like, that pupillary dilation lives in your. In your brain stem section, the same section that regulates your autonomic nervous system. And so it's more of a marker for dysautonomia, one small version of it. But then it's like, I've got gut issues. Maybe you have gastroparesis, belly get dyskinesia, may. You've got pots. You know, maybe anxiety is your pots. And so these are just physical exam findings that give us. As you know, this is not online medicine. This is not virtual medicine. This is like us as clinical physicians who have an expertise in making a diagnosis and doing a physical exam using the physical exam aspect. You know that the NASA lean test is another great example of that, where I check someone's blood pressure laying down, sitting up, and standing, and if your systolic blood pressure shoots up or drops, your pulse goes up over a certain number, then it's like you have probably pots, which is important of dysautonomia. Why? And you start going down. Is this your Lyme, where your SIBO or your mold or your MCAS or your hypermobility or. And all of a sudden, you have clinical exam findings that support our presumptive diagnosis based on story. And then as someone goes to the treatment, we can say, oh, you're, you're not doing the people thing anymore. Your blood pressure stabilized, you know, and so just part of being.

We're clinicians rejected metrics. That was really well said. That's perfect explanation like literally going from I suspected this based on what you told me. I found this on exam. I'm now playing detective and looking at the why behind it. And here's my treatment plan. And now the reassessment is that it's getting better. Plus so are your numbers. That's like it's, that's excellent medicine is what that is.

That's the reason we do certain types of, you know, tendon reflux. It's the reason I did a little test for peripheral neuropathy which is associated with some kinds of dysautonomia and mold things. It's just part of our physical exam because we're doctors, we're clinical sleuths.

I guess the next question pretty straightforward. You want to just jump on this one too? So what are SPMs? I guess we didn't explain that one. And then what type of fistula? So I guess we're looking for specifics as far as like clean sourcing and things of that nature.

So SPMs are these things that actually protozole mediators. And so when you have an injury, your body creates inflammation. Inflammation is actually good in certain situations. You get an infection, you get a bruise, you get an injury, your body has inflammation which is instigated by these inflammatory meteors, omega 6 based metabolites. So those are like your omega 6 prostaglandins. Basically your 3 and 6 series, those are ultimately formed from omega 6 fatty acids. So pro inflammatory fatty acids, you want that response. Promisolve mediase are the opposite side of that coin are the three series that come from Omega 3s which are anti inflammatory. Eventually Omega 3s turn into these pro resolving mediators or inflammation mediators. And so it's this really cool biohack where I'm not going to. Some people don't convert, you know, flax, right. Don't convert ALA to epa, the dha. Right. So sometimes we have to bypass that with nutrients to push the enzymes. This is a way we can jump down how many pathways?

10 to 15 pathways give the end.

Product, you give the end product. It's an anti inflammatory. You know, doing four capsules twice a day can treat acute pain without backache. You got a headache, you know that, that if you have Cycle pain. It actually works nice with that. So we're using these omega 3 end products that come from, you know, if your ala, which usually flax and things like that, omega 3s and bypassing your body having to turn into that. So we're actually using. That's like a drug basically.

It's kind of like giving methylfolate to somebody who's got an mth of R gene.

Right, Great example.

Yeah, I can't convert folate into methylfolate. Okay, here is the end product.

If you give them folic acid, even.

Worse bad things happen.

So it's like you think it's folic acid, bad things. Yeah, 5 mth, really, really good things.

Yeah, it's a leapfrog hack and they're powerful because it's anti inflammatory but anti inflammatory almost in an immune anti inflammatory way because it also flips your macrophages from M1 to M2 stage. So Pro inflammatory to anti inflammatory pro resolution, which is cool. Just being mindful up. In certain conditions inflammation is caused by chronic infection and resolution of inflammation will make that infection worse. Again it's about a clinician who understands this stuff, picking and choosing their battles and understanding when to implement these strategies and not just taking them all day every day. The same way that you can't just take antioxidants all day every day. And then when you need an oxidative burst to fight an infection, it's not there because you're suppressing it. It's about balance, Right. What about fish oils? Where do you go to?

So fish oils, omega 3s. The thing about fish oil people don't realize is that omega 3 oils are heat sensitive and oxidation sensitive. Which means you, how long can you live a fish in your fridge before it goes bad? Couple days. Right. That says Omega 3 is going rancid.

Right.

If you ever cooked a fish, it's yummy, whatever. After three days I will burp fishy, right. And so with Omega 3s, if you get a expeller pressed or some kind of heated omega 3 or that solvent, so they actually use solvents to extract the omega 3s, then all of a sudden you're getting a rancid oil with solvents and we're doing the exact opposite of what we're going to do. Or let's say the Omega 3s been the shelf or unfortunately sometimes in the summertime when it's really hot, you know, we had this happen at our house where we got some omega 3s in the heat and give my wife really bad reflux and it was like those came out like one of the hostages of summer kind of thing. And so when you do omega 3s, you want to make sure they're, you know, how do they, how do they actually get the Omega 3? Are they using like a CO2 extraction process? By using molecular distillation, which. Molecular distillation is what H vac guys use to get air out. To get water out of your H vac, you create a vacuum which lowers the boiling point of water. It boils out your H vac and that's how they get water out of the thing. So we take fish oil, we put in the vacuum, we lower the boiling point so that it boils at room temperature. You take off, you basically distill off the omega 3. And you've done this at a room temperature, cool temperature. And then sometimes you'll cap them with nitrogen capping so that doesn't go rancid. So that's what you want to look for. And so the brands, I mean, I like, I like Designs for Health has a really good one that they, that is like distilled. A thorn has one.

I like Nordic Naturals. Metagenx has a good product.

Yeah.

And I, I keep mine in the fridge. You can put them in the freezer.

After you, after you open them, put in the fridge. Yeah. And after you open the fridge, you got four to six weeks to use them. Yeah. And after that, if you haven't used it, you start burping, fishing, then it's time to dump them.

And most of these are sardine, mackerel.

They're small fish. And if they're molecular distilled, one of the things is they have retained with solvents or chemicals or metals. It's a way to actually purify it as well. So ultimately my thing is first and foremost, do no harm. Let's say 20 years from now, we find out vitamin D doesn't do anything for you, C doesn't do anything for you. Fish oil doesn't do any. Which, you know, just pretend that happens. The bare minimal one knows I have not hurt anybody, which means I haven't given anybody mercury from the fish oil. I haven't given my lead because they're calcium supplement. 25% of calcium supplements on the marker and have lead in them. So the very minimum I want to do, which is kind of hard these days to do, is like, yes, you.

Make any suggestions, there's always that risk.

Oh, yeah, exactly.

All right. So again, this is kind of piggybacking on the success rate.

1 I mean, I think we answered that.

Okay, but this one talks about the nay. I guess that is if it's. A lot of practitioners talk about this being relatively straightforward. I don't know who they're seeing. I'm very upfront with my patients, and I say this is nonlinear and it's never going to be linear. The best case scenario is, like you said, we're catching it early. You're doing all the things that we ask you to do right on the front end, and then it can become as linear as possible. If you think about how many confounding variables there are from external environmental sources, this is not linear. But Heyman's work took Shoemakers and made it as linear as possible. But even then, within the individual, it's not linear because cases are different. Cases are specific. Environmental exposures are as well. All right, let me read this one.

Okay.

Hi, I'm a patient of Dr. Jensky's. Hello, whoever this is. I adore these series. I've watched every episode. Oh, this is a hard one. My family thinks SIRS is made up. Have you heard that before? The data doesn't support. Not true. Hard to replicate in studies. Can you explain why traditional medicine thinks this and why traditional medicine thinks this and what the counter argument is? I've listened to the whole series, and that's the part I don't get. If there are biomarkers to show, like C4A and TGF beta, then why isn't it more widely accepted? Are there explanations that mainstream medicine has for that? Are there studies on PubMed that it can look at? I'm just curious to know if there's any compelling evidence linking mycotoxin exposures to Parkinson's disease. I've read a lot about it, and I'm not sure how strong the evidence is yet. So this is. I feel for this person because this is not uncommon. But I'll let you kind of jump in on this and I'll add as necessary.

I think this. The basic thing is, is medicine sequential? Step by step, increasing knowledge? Is that the way medicine works? We talk about science as if it's this linear thing. It changes based on paradigm shifts. You know, we used to think the Earth was flat, right? And so we interpreted things like ships going off the horizon as being eaten by sea monsters. We had no idea how to explain, you know, the sunrises and sunsets. As soon as we realized, hey, things around, oh, we got things called nautical miles. I mean, people had known for millennia before. You can't, like, measure straight Miles, this thing called nautical miles because you had to cruise around. Well, all of a sudden now we had, oh, now I understand nautical miles. Now I understand ships going over the horizon. Actually understand the Prisma effect for sunrises and sunsets. Right. Medicine, science goes with paradigm to paradigm to paradigm. And so we're in the part of a paradigm shift. And so, you know, the thing I tell people historically, you know, Ignaz Semmelweis, the guy who invented hand washing, lost his career over it. Was jailed for. Because he's crazy, right?

Yeah, he was, he was teamed to be a lunatic.

Yeah, he was actually beaten back when he used to beat the crazy out of you died from the very infection he was trying to prevent. Took 30 years to catch on smoking in our country. Back when I was a kid, you know, it was like, you know, I wanted a smoke free place where you're crazy. There's no science that says smoking's bad for you. Like, that's weirdo, wacko. You know, like in the 70s, the AMA was like, you know, there's no evidence that smoking's bad for you. It took 50 years and 7,000 research articles before the Surgeon General United States said, you know what we think smoking calls it cancer. Right. And so it's one of those things like this is just the way science goes. And so science is in these ivory towers and it's very much a trade. I practice medicine the way my mentor practiced medicine, the way he practiced it. And so it's really easy to get in these ruts. And so as far as like, that's the reason why it's taking forever. You know, Shoemaker discovered this in 96, 98. It's actually been taken up way quicker than hand washing was, to be honest with you and others think smoking, we still got 20, 30 years to figure out that mold's an issue. But it's interesting, the EPA recognizes that water damage, buildings are our thing. They actually termed the term sick building syndrome back in the 80s. Just another name for the same thing. There are white papers out on this, you know, building biologists, which is a holden field of science, knows that we can come in, we can check. They have meters to check CO2 in the building. And that tells you how many air exchanges the building has. They do things such like formaldehyde, they're so off gassing. Like there are fields of science that understand your environment affects your health. Because that's all this is. It's saying your environment affects your health. And even with endotoxins, which are one of the things we talked about in Europe. This is a shoemaker sent me down this pathway when I'll do my training with him. Did research on endotoxins in Europe. They actually measure endotoxins in cities to know air quality levels for causing illness. So there's so much data out there, it's just, it's going to take 30 or more years before we learn this in medical school. You know, and that's kind of where we're at.

You know, it's, I mean we didn't learn any. Just the whole umbrella of environmental medicine.

Is just not taught, it's not taught in medical school.

And this goes beyond SIRS and water damage, building or sick buildings. It's like we didn't learn about heavy metals, we didn't, we didn't really touch in nutrition.

Yeah.

Like it's so like the reason that it's kind of poo pooed or dispelled or dismissed is because of exactly everything that you just said. They just haven't caught up. But also like this goes, this speaks to a bigger issue which is that we, the way medicine is set up right now is that it's been fixed on a downstream disease label, prescriptive band aid model. And it's not individualizing it, it's not looking upstream, it's not trying to use nutraceuticals. Everything seems to be a medicine and then a medicine for that medicine. But it's all what's going on wrong inside of this person's body. What's the disease state that I can put a label on. And the reality is that we have to consider our external environment as well. And that input on that internal environment and that surface isn't even being scratched. So to take something as complex as this and assume that they're going to go from nothing to this is a huge leap of faith. And so the best thing to say is that if your family doesn't believe you, I'm sorry for that. But the reality is that the data is there, it has been there. They're just not caught up. Go to PubMed, go to Google Scholar, type in SiriS, type in Actinomycetes, type in mycotoxins, type in cell danger response and you're gonna get hundreds of thousands of articles and it's all there for them to happily read and see if they want to be on board with you and help you get better.

And it's just one of those things where, that's where I think marketing comes into play. Yeah, education comes into play. Perceptions Reality. Yeah. If you don't hear about it on. Wherever you get your news from, Twitter or Facebook or Instagram, Wherever people get the information.

Yeah.

You're not hearing about it from your regular doctor or your specialist. People assume this doesn't exist, but there are textbooks, for example, on side effects from drugs. 30% of pharmaceuticals are mitochondrial toxicants. This is standard pharmacy 101. You know, a lot of medications have side effects. Like you put someone on a diuretic for their high blood pressure induces magnesium deficiency. What happens? You get palpitations, you get potassium deficiency, you get insulin resistance. So next thing happens is the person develops palpitations, they get put on a beta blocker, which further makes more insulin resistance. Ten years later, they're diagnosed as a diabetic. And the question is, are these medication side effects? This is in textbooks. I was not taught that in medical school. I was not told to connect the dots of drug induced metabolic complications.

Same.

And so there's so much of that. And that's why this kind of, that's the reason we kind of geek out in this kind of medicine. Yeah. Because it's literally we're gonna spend the rest of our lives just figuring out stuff. Yeah, I'm still, I'm still trying to figure out stuff.

Yeah, same, same.

But yeah, I'm sorry for that person because that's unfortunately a lot of people's reality. And it's, it's heartbreaking. Hard.

It's hard. Especially because this, the complexity of this requires support. And if you're not feeling support, then it makes it even harder. And it's already hard enough. So, you know, that's why we're here. This one I was confused by because I don't. I have not read this or heard this. Shoemaker said in one video, patients would ruin their therapy by taking curcumin at the wrong time. No further explanation. This makes me wonder and gives me insecurity. What could this possibly mean? I mean, I don't, I don't have any explanation as to where at any point in a SIRS patient Curcumin would hurt them. I mean, step one is bring the neuroinflammation down.

Yeah.

So that's curcumin.

Well, this is that. Well, that's where I think there's, this is so cutting edge. You won't find people who think, you know, we've talked about different kinds of mycotoxin testing.

Yeah.

You know, this is actually Heyman and some of his stuff like Curcumin's Used early on as a brain anti inflator. Dr. Goodnow, who some people have heard of plasma allergens. He uses a specific kind of curcumin called desmondoxycurcumin, which specifically protects the brain from endotoxins. Cool. So he does that in autistic kids. He has a specific thing for that. So we know this actually helps protect your brain from endotoxins primarily made in your gut in his case, but obviously environmental ones. Curcumin is really cool because it mimics what butyrate does. So if you're not getting a butyrate in your gut to help protect your brain, you can use take curcumin. So I'm not really sure do I have. People take curcumin, have reactions with it? Sure. People take everything. The current literature says doses up to 10,000 milligrams a day are safe. There's actually, if you're a patient who sees me with mgus, which is a kind of pre leukemia thing, there's literature on that actually slowing progression of MGUs. It's a particular kind of curcumin with biopterin. But point is that there's really. It's a really cool thing. I think we all should take it. Some people don't tolerate just like some people don't tolerate other stuff. Without seeing the specific reference. I don't know what this is referring to.

Yeah, and I like Resilio too, which is the nanotized lipophilized one that has like better bioavailability than IV curcumin. I mean it's literally like getting right up to your brain taking care of that inflammation. I don't think in any of these patients at any point along the way that that's going to be detrimental or cause a setback or be problematic. So I think this was maybe some misguided information.

It's hard to know because there's so much stuff. People will say, well, someone X, Dr. X said this and you actually look on it and just click bait. And you actually read. I mean, in our literature you have an abstract. I've read research articles where the abstract is not supported by the body. And you're like, this is like, this is. This is like medical clickbait. Like, oh my gosh.

Yeah.

So it's hard without seeing the actual reference is really hard.

My practitioner only uses MyCOBIND as treatment for seros. I'm going to assume that that person's probably a naturopath. If they can't prescribe wellcol or cold Starmine. So do you think I should ask for cold starting or wellcol? I'll let you answer this, but I guess quickly. If the person's only using microbind, it might be because they can't prescribe the others. But if it's a medical doctor that can prescribe these, then that might just be their comfort level. Do you want to speak on the differences of this?

I mean, well, microbiome, this is one article to looked at how well these bound bile acids bodies and sequestrans. And so cold styrene was number one. Wolcom was a little less. I think it was so much more tolerable. Well, that's the thing, the ultimate thing is I have this perfect thing that's the best thing. It's cold styrene. You're supposed to take one packet four times a day. How many of your patients actually tolerate that?

And it's chunky orange juice and it has fake sugars in it and it gives you mad heartburn.

Yeah, you said that.

And then I have this other thing called wellcol that are tablets that you can swallow without any of that and it's only three times a day. Which would you choose?

And then it's like all my patients give welcome.

Yeah, Microbine for the sensitive ones.

Yeah. Well, that's the thing is like, if you have a lot of sense of a patient, a lot of people selling your response or other MCAS stuff, because you can actually get an acceleration reaction. It's like a cytokine response with colostymine because it's pulling out toxins too quickly. And some maybe the person's just bypassing that aspect because they've had so many side effects.

Don't you see that in Lyme patients a lot?

Yeah. And those people you say, load up on your SPMs, your mega 3s first. Give it a month. Let's try again.

Doesn't Marcons drive inflammation?

Yes, yes, yes. We talked about that a lot in this series. I don't think we need to.

Yeah. All right, I'm going to read this one because this is for you. I wonder if Dr. Hartman knows anything about severely advanced SIRS and how this is essentially useless information and a waste of time. Thank you. Methylene blue is the only thing that will stop the SIRS reactions. Advanced SIRS also renders your lungs unable to process the sense of smell without violent, intense sickness. You also separately lose the ability to eat because you become seriously allergic to everything. It causes damage to almost every organ, destroys your mind and unable to function. All this doctor stuff is nonsense. Just take 12.5mg twice a day of pure USP grade methylene blue. If you have advanced SIRS and have money to spend, go see a doctor. But they will 90% not be able to stop the reactions as good as methylene blue.

Okay. Wow. There's a lot of things in there. So first I think of the advanced sirs, whatever that is. I think that's like what we're talking about. These really sensitive patients who develop multiple chemical sensitivity limbic cannula. They can become so sensitive that they react with emf. And all of a sudden, now the lights, the LED lights in this room or your cell phone make them feel.

Kind of ill. CERS is not black or white. It's a continuum.

It's a continuum. Yeah.

Everybody's different. This is personalized.

Yeah. As far as the methylene blue, USP grade. Methylene blue, which is bought online, typically has heavy metals in it. And so the first thing is don't ever buy your USP grade. USP grade only is saying that we're verifying the dosing that this is 10 or 15 or 20 milligrams. It truly is 10 or 15 or 20 milliggrams. It's not verifying purity. Right. And if you buy something online, usually it's help cadmium, it'll have other heavy metals in it. So don't do that. Just get a doctor to write you.

Yeah. Get you a compound for us.

Yeah, yeah. And it's clean.

It's. Yeah, it's.

Yeah. So which we use.

You use a lot of.

I use. I use a lot of methylene blue, actually. But methylene blue is really interesting. It was actually originally created as a dye. It was like when the first dyes in the 1880s to dye stuff, you know, hence the word dye. By the 1890s, they're like, wait a second, this helps with malaria. So they started using with malaria until this thing called quinine came out, you know, and then fell inside. But then in the 40s or 50s, they said, hey, this thing called methymoglobinemia, which is another mitochondrial thing where people can have enough oxygen in their blood, but they still die hypoxia because the blood doesn't release the oxygen. And so methylene blue will reverse this. Right. So starting using the hospital. So this has been around for a really, really, really long time. Probably maybe 20ish. Don't quote me on this. Maybe 20 years ago, people started realizing, hey, you can use this for. For Chronic Lyme patients. Because methylene blue helps break down biofilms, it also has antimicrobial activity. You can use it with patients with chronic UTIs. There's actually a prescription. Oh, it came in, the word came in with Urabell. Urabelle is a prescription medication used by fancy urogynecologists here in Richmond. It's got some antispasmodics for the bladder. It's got methylene blue in it. So this is used commonly for a lot of things. It was recently, maybe in the last three, five years it kind of crept into the biohackers because methylene blue by chance is electron donor. So it acts at the third. This is a little fancy stuff here, but acts of the third complex in the mitochondria, which is where oxygen works to make energy. So methylene blue, like NAD works at complex 2. Between 1, 2 is CoQ10. Right. One is riboflavin oblate complex 3 is cytochrome C. Right. Cyclome C I think goes between two.

It's the chakra.

Yeah. And so that's what that's. This is, this is the kind of medicine we do like every day. And so, but that's where methylene blue fits into it. So I've had patients who've had fatiguing illnesses. I've used methylene blue actually, it's actually made so they can work out and not have a crash push, crash phenomenon. I've used it with some of my Lyme patients and actually with some of the newer eyelad stuff. Methylene blue is actually the new used like not first line but like really close second Lyme with some of these Lyme patients because they have CO infections with Babesian bartonella. So it's really, you know, the question I'm curious is, did this person have a CO infection? Do they have some other mitochondrial thing going on?

I have no doubt that this person is feeling better on methylene blue. I do doubt that they're getting the whole problem solved. Because if this is truly a SIRS case, and in their words, advanced sirs, the only way that we have documented evidence to reverse SIRS is VIP Basil, active testosterone. So they'll get close, but you're not going to fully get out of CSRS with methylene blue alone. I'm sorry, it's just not going to happen. The reality is it's probably helping to address underlying infections, diagnosed or otherwise, biofilms diagnosed or otherwise, and maybe a little bit of mitochondrial boosting and that it's dose dependent methylene blue, like certain dosing will do different things. It's not uniform in its functionality at every single dose. A higher dose versus a low dose is going to give you whether we're talking about anti aging or biofilm disruption or antimicrobial properties for mitochondrial boosting. But if your mitochondria are stuck, then you can give all the mitochondrial support you want. It's not going to do much of dumbness. I've thrown methylene blue and PQQ and CoQ 10 and B vitamins and magnesium and NAD and NAD and all the things at someone who I know has a mitochondrial issue and they're like, hey, my energy is a little bit better. It's because it's stuck. Get it unstuck, move it along, resolution repair, then all that stuff will light them up like a Christmas tree and they'll feel fantastic on the back end of it. But. But there's utility for it. It's just, you know, I just think that's kind of maybe more coming from a place of frustration.

Yeah. The thing is that, you know, ultimately that's the reason why we did this whole series and we did like seven videos before this and I did the blog thing. It's been out there for years. Is that so people can have reliable information. Yeah. The reason we're doing this verbal because I mean this hour we talk would literally be, you know, probably an 80 page blog which I'm not going to need.

Yeah. And the reason that people get it online the USB grade is because it's.

Cheap and they don't.

It's expensive.

It is. And they don't need a licensed provider.

Yeah.

It's kind of like. I won't say that but it's kind of like when people use will go down go and go to animal feed shops to get certain anti parasitics which.

I won't sit here or, or peptides.

Or peptides online and usually. So next question is how long does it take for symptoms of mold related illness to appear? You, I think in episode two or three you gave your bucket analogy and when things kind of. Why don't you kind of give that to us here?

Sure. So ultimately what I tell my patients is that we're born kind of try to visualize that you're born with this empty toxin bucket and ultimately based on your exposures throughout life and your genetics and your metabolic byproducts, the choices you're making, some things that you have that are outside of your control, the bucket starts to fill up. In this case, we're speaking specifically about biotoxins. And if you're in the genetic subset where you are susceptible to biotoxicity, then ultimately you're not able to empty that bucket. So each experience exposure, you're collecting some more, and it's filling up. You leave the environment, you take them with you, you come back, you take on some more. And as that bucket's filling up, you may or may not be all that symptomatic, and it really depends on the individual. But clearly, as it's filling up to some extent, you start to see those other aberrations of that cascade that we've spoken about, as MSH starts to lower and leptin starts to go up. And the reality is then at that point in time, that person tends to start to have symptoms. At some point, you hit critical mass and you overfill yourself, bucket. And that's when we deem that you're flipping into surs, Chronic Inflammatory Response Syndrome. At that point, you're definitively symptomatic. So for some, it might be 10, 20 years. For others, it might be that they buy their starter home. Unbeknownst to them, their crawl space is a travesty. All of a sudden, they moved in within a year, they have all these new symptoms. They're seeing all these doctors, they have a diagnosis, they catch COVID that pushes them over the edge, and next thing you know, they're in surgeon two. So it really depends on the person, but it's really about exposure, extent of exposure in each individual situation, and then over time, not to mention how open or closed your detox pathways are, based on genetics and lifestyle.

Yeah.

All right, how about what do I do? This is always a hard one. What do I do if I. What should I do if I think my workplace has mold? And is. Is there a link between mold exposure and asthma?

You know, if you think your workplace has mold, first thing is talk with your boss. Say, hey, I've got these issues, et cetera, et cetera. Hopefully you're working with a reasonable person that will, like, at least, yeah, work. Go into it. You know, 50% of all buildings in the country are water damage. So it's a high likelihood. It's a high likelihood. That's either you're between your home and your workplace or your place of worship or your friends, houses or places your kids play. Then there's. There's mold somewhere. So it's hard. Talk with your boss if you think it's an issue. Hopefully they're willing to work with you to do Some basic evaluation or have someone come out and look at it. But like with patients with the usual things like who's going to come look at it? Is it going to be a building biologist or a duck guy who just was going to look at one thing and that's where you hopefully whoever you're working with, knows the right people people to have do that. And just make sure you get the right people to do it. Because I routinely have people who will pick. Oh, someone came out and checked for mold and they did plates. Yeah. They came out and did cultures and like. So did they do a particle count in the air? Did they check for voc? Did they do a new crawl space? Did they take an infrared gun, a flare gun and look for temperature changes in your wall? Did they? If the answer is no, no, no, no. It's like you probably didn't have the right person. Yeah. So.

And it goes beyond mold too, Right. It's biotoxic.

Well, that's the thing is mold represents like 16% of the big things. And I'm looking for other stuff. The asthma thing is really interesting. When I did monitoring, one of the numbers I used was 25% of childhood asthma was related to environmental mold. And I read this past year 75% of adult asthma is related to environmental mold. So I did not tell people somewhere between 25%. But the gist is, if any, if you have kids with asthma, check your crawl space, check your house. If you have an adult with asthma, check your house out. Because you know, those numbers are highly, highly suggestive of me that probably most cases of asthma. Yeah. In our country have at the bare minimum environmental, if not an internal environmental mold component.

There's layers to that too. I literally, because I was seeing patients today before I started doing this, the last patient I just saw, she straight up told me the house she used to live in was a brand new build. She had no breathing issues. I'm treating her for service. The house she lives in now, they just finished remediation and now they're doing the extensive cleaning and all the things that we've talked about. But she's been flaring as like gangbusters and she hasn't had an asthma flare since she was a kid. And so clearly there's one that has correlation. The next layer to it is if you no longer have mold in your home, it doesn't mean your asthma is going to automatically get better if you're Th2 polarized immunologically from biotoxicity or chronic hollow space. Infections or excess cortisol. So just that I am being a mole patient or I'm a SIRS patient makes you stressed out. That's going to drive up your TH2 histamine asthma response. So there are. There's a direct correlation and then there's layers of the onion as there is, we can always peel back.

One of the health risk associated with mold exposure. I mean, pulmonary hypertension.

Pulmonary hypertension.

Someone asked Neuronal atrophy. Neuro atrophy. Someone asked about the Parkinson's board. There's a correlation with neurodegeneration.

Yeah. So Parkinson's, dementia, even als, I think they're trying to draw links to.

They are, yeah. I have an individual work I've not seen. Have you seen a case of CIDP before?

Before? I have, yeah.

Okay.

He's serious.

Okay. Yeah, I've seen two. The one was when I first started my career. So I know about this back then. The current one is a service patient, so that's interesting. So from asthma to dementia. Yeah, you know, it's a big and.

All things in between. Well, there's no stuff. So all the hormone stuff, pick it all the gut stuff, autoimmunity, skin stuff, clearly mood stuff. Neuronal degeneration.

Someone asked earlier on. I don't think we asked. Or it's. Maybe it's coming about psychological issues. There's a psychiatrist, Mary Ackerley, who's. When I'll do my training. She's one of the lecturers for Dr. Shoemaker. Or maybe, maybe it's this. I lose track. Maybe it was an MCAS if I was doing. Anyway, she's a. She's a psychiatrist and what got her down this pathway was some bipolar schizophrenic patients who she found had mold issues, addressed it and their genetic psychiatric medication controlled issues went away. So birth thing is there's now, you know, mental health, neural inflammation with seriously ill people.

We'll talk about that more with that question. But that leads me to the neuroquants that we do on patients, the ones that we're getting locally. When you look at the extended breakdown of it, the way it's analyzed, besides looking at is this mold induced or PTSD or subjective cognitive impairment or tbi. There's a schizophrenic column and there's a bipolar column. So we're seeing a lot of overlap with these structures and the neuronal atrophy that we're seeing that are literally almost paralleling on top of each other. And that's Currently being studied. And then the other health risk that I don't think gets talked about enough and I think in my lifetime start seeing more of it, is the cancer risk. I think just like think about how these environmental toxins are just affecting your body negatively. And if you have, as you can measure on a genie, defective apoptosis or mitochondrial dysfunction in the metabolic disease that ensues, Isn't that a breeding ground for cancer?

Historically, we learned this in medical school. Historically, wheat gets aflatoxin and she will get liver cancer.

Hepatocellular carcinoma. That's what my grandfather died of.

Yeah.

And so primary hepatocellular carcinoma. Dad never drank. Yeah.

And we know. So we know that in the food system, being exposed to particular kind of toxins, apple toxins, one of the main ones is directly correlated with certain kinds of cancers. So is it correlated with breast to colon and other unassociated ones to be determined bulbs of deaths? Yeah. Yeah.

From cancers cause pain. Pots and can sers be cured, sirs?

Absolutely. Can cause dysautonomia. POTS as a type of dysautonomia. Can SERS be cured? It can. We have literature now, we have patients. We have patient experience of that. We talked about that before. It's just a journey. Yeah.

And it doesn't just disclaimer, you cure it. You cure it, you get out of service, but then you're not done. Then the real work of understanding of how you got there and the vigilance of. I know what my kryptonite is, and I have to understand that environments hurt me. And I have to make sure that I avoid those at all costs. But there's an inevitability. And when I suspect or know that I'm exposed, I gotta know the things to do to make sure that my bucket doesn't overflow again. And I don't flip back in. Because your genes don't change. They will stay the same. So you just gotta own it, period.

We have patients who get Marcons again. They start going downhill. You retest them, then they treat them, get pissed off, and then they go to someone's place and they so have patients now who, like, if you know you're going to someplace, take your cold starting the week before, prep your body, you know, maybe start doing your beta net nasal saline flushes, you know, prevention kind of stuff.

I have patients do nasal protocols when they get on planes. I just stay on my binders because why not? I think they don't hurt me.

Just take your B vitamins take your fat soluble vitamins and. Yeah, so mental illness. Next question.

So you, you were started on this. So I'll just read it and then you can kind of keep going because I think you probably have some great stuff to say on this. So what are your thoughts on mental illness? Do you think it's an end diagnosis or is it a symptom of something else like Serge Lyme, et cetera?

Your mental health is a kind of neuroinflammation. Whether it's schizophrenia, which does have a genetic component, but now we're seeing you can have environmental changes, triggers for it, whether they're recreational drugs or whether they're mold related kind of stuff. We know from the 1960s there are actually studies, things you can't do now. They had, there was actually a psych hospital and back then when people were in hospitals, they were really, really, really like really sick and they put them on a gluten free diet. They saw significant. They basically removed it. They forcibly removed it. We know information with ketogenic diets treating seizure disorders and other neurological issues, including schizophrenia. Schizophrenia, massive, massive response. There are certain types of bipolar disorder. There is a prescription drug that methylene, it is L methylFolate, dosed 5mg, 7.5, 15mg Massive doses to treat bipolar depression. So all of a sudden now these things, these symptoms that have names, that have DSM 5 names to them actually are just syndromes of other things going on. Whether it's a person with MTHFR or mold patient or a Lyme patient or a post concussive syndrome. We know that post concussive syndrome can cause significant neuropsychiatric issues. So you know, the thinking people don't realize are thinking, thinking our current thinking of psychiatric issues. Where in medicine, Dr. Jet Ski, are you doing the exact same thing they were doing in the 1950s? We're basing our psychiatric treatment on the neurotransmitter model. It's been the same model for 70 years. I can't really think of anything. We're doing pretty much the same. And a lot of medications they use, their precursors were created in the 50s and 60s and 70s. So. So we're at this inflection point with psychiatric illnesses realizing it's a bigger thing.

And I think that that movement is catching on pretty quickly, which is a good thing to see. And I mean you gave just a couple of examples and there's so many more. But like these same diagnosable billable conditions that one was due to an infection, another is due to a toxin, another was due to a nutrient deficiency or inability to methylate appropriately. And so, yes, these, these are symptoms, in my opinion, of something bigger. And I feel like IBS and fibromyalgia and a lot of other things that get a label and a stamp are also that way. And you're not going to know if you don't do the work and you don't play detective and you don't dig deeper. And some people are comfortable just sitting with that label, but most aren't, especially the ones that come. Come here.

Yes, a lot of times when things get these labels and criteria, it's initially for research purposes. So we have a criteria. How do you define rheumatoid arthritis? Well, now we've got this thing called mixed connective tissue disorder, which is kind of like rheumatory, but it's Rh negative and doesn't quite meet the criteria. So you get these criteria. So then you can actually do a FDA approved study or a pharma approved study, or you can do some kind of study to collect data. But a lot of these descriptions are on the front end, are actually created. They're complex, Complex regional pain syndrome. Before that it was a name for complex regional pain syndrome. Before that it was reflex sympathetic dystrophy. The name changes because when you have a new criteria for it that's driven by our understanding from a research perspective and as clinicians, these are all nice ways to, to think. But our, ultimately we don't let them confine how we think about patients. Yeah. Because our primary goal is to help people not, you know, click all boxes for.

Enable them.

Enable them for, you know, which unfortunately.

Internalize or it stigmatizes.

Yeah.

All right. Can you explain the SIRS and Long Covid link? Can Covid kick you into sirs?

Yes, it can kick you into csrs. And we are now fine out that Long Covid is a CSRS phenomenon.

I think it's cirs.

Yeah. I mean, it's. Some people are saying it's a master phenomenon, which is some of the thinking about that as well. Which is, which is probably a source for. Well, it's, you know, it's not all service, but like it's not. But it's. This is where I think the controversy is because, you know, depending on the expert that you are, how you're looking at it, that's the paradigm you look at things, you know. And so I'm humble enough to really, you know, the way I think of, you know, I tell Patients all the time. Anything I say, you can't hold it to me for more than three months because I know. Get away with saying all the time because people respect. Like, that's good. Because you're learning, you're reading.

Yeah.

You're still, you know, I'll change how I do lipid stuff in the last.

It's your way of saying. It's your way of saying I don't know everything and I never will.

I'm still learning.

Yeah.

I'm still learning. Yeah. So I think so the point is, yes, we've seen with COVID reactivation of Lyme, reactivation of Epstein Barr, of cmv, reactivation of hsv. I was learning this last fall at the ILADS conference. In their infectious disease world, they're seeing Covid being a reactivation of dormant infections, which sounds a whole lot like post Lyme syndrome or chronic fatigue from ebv. So can I definitively say that today? No. But will it be brief in probably we have enough, you know, and the.

Other thing is that the working multidisciplinary model for what long Covid truly is is we think it's a combination of these things and then they start to list them, and it's inflammation and immune dysregulation and mitochondrial dysfunction and oxidative stress. What does that sound like to you?

That's one thing with the surge. When people say mold, I'm like, you know, it's 16%.

I correct people all the time. It's semantics. But I have to, because it's misleading if you don't. And I'm trying to undo the confirmation bias that everyone's falling prey to because it then allows me to feel like I wasn't misleading them into thinking it was just mold. And when they've got their third or fourth mold inspector out, saying there's no mold, it's because there's bacteria there, or it's because it's something else. Like, I've already said that more than once. Like, that's my whole point of saying, please don't say mold. This is a biotoxin illness. Please don't say mold illness.

It's.

Yeah, it's SERS, or chronic inflammatory response.

And I'll refer back to Dr. Yehuda Schoenfeld. He's the brain fart anti inflammatory syndrome induced by adjuvants. And so he has four major things, and one of those is silicone, silicone implants. And one's actually adjuvants. He talks about metals, like aluminum vaccines. But the Thing was in reading his textbook. He has a great textbook on vaccines and autoimmunity written by experts around the world. It's a great, great read. If you haven't read syndrome. But he talks about before we used metals as a juvenile, and now we're using MRA as a juvenile. We'll go down that pathway. We use petroleum products called froons and non fruins adjuvant. So petroleum products. Do we use petroleum products? And petroleum instead distillates anything around us. Like everything. Like, you know, the question with Roundup, is roundup so bad because glyphosate's a toxin or that 93% of the inner ingredients and roundups, which one is still. Yeah. So and all of a sudden that. Can these things attach to your cells, change the protein structure. Okay. And create this thing called molecular mimicry? Yeah. Can that induce autoimmunity? Yeah. Now, it's really interesting because I was actually telling doctor after about this and a lot of things in the mast cell world is you get these pseudo alter antibodies. It's a mast cell phenomenon. Talking with him that you get these small antibodies. Well, we see that with petroleum, with chemical exposures. And so I feel like a lot of us are looking at a similar phenomena with a different mindset. It's up to practitioners to take that information and the plot apply to the myriad of patients we see.

Yeah. And that leads into the next question, which is about mast cell histamine stuff. So essentially, I'm curious, what happens if you develop mast cell activation syndrome slash histamine issues? If you treat SIRS with a mast cell activation syndrome, histamine go away. Since you treated the root cause, what's.

The under root cause? That's the thing. What's the root cause? You know, you know, with mast cell activation syndrome is a part of the pentad super syndrome, which is, you know, mass elect, is MCAs autoimmunity, GI issues, which include, like, a whole host of things. Hypermobility. Yeah. And so, like, when you see mcas, the question is, okay, does this person also have a little bit of mild dysautonomia? A lot of times they do. Are they hypermobile? And we could talk about hypermobility. Is that an MCAS phenomenon? Is that a genetic one of these things? We have the genetic prediction, increased position, and you get more hypermobile from that gene being expressed through chemical exposure. That's mast cell perspective. You know, how many people have gut issues or autoimmunity. Right. And so it's one of those things where you know, MCAS is a very complicated thing. And some of these people with MCAS are so sensitive to stuff that literally, literally the fillers and stuff. I was reading a textbook, it's called Disjointed. It was written by a bunch of experts on hypermobility. And one of the interesting things in that book that I learned is that some people with hypermobility, you know, is this a mast cell thing? I don't know. React with cellulose, which is in everything, every supplement, capsules. Yeah, yeah. And so all of a sudden, like our. I always ask my question, you know, are we seeing. Is this the same phenomenon with a different expression? So I kind of put those things in my brain and go look these little places up, like things to recall at a later date. So ultimately with this, what's the root cause? A lot of times with these patients, you start doing mast cell therapies to calm that thing down so that you can change your diet, so that you can change your environment. Because when mast cells are flaring, mast cells release not just histamines. There's a couple thousand mediators that are released and some of them are neurotropic or neuroactivating mediators. You know, maybe that, maybe that was actually an interesting question. Maybe that's the reason. Hydroxyzine and Benadryl. When I did my training, we're using the hospital with some schizophrenic patients to calm their, their, their schizophrenic flares down. Was this a mast cell phenomenon? Well, we know why.

We know that there are four types of histamine receptors. H1, H2, H3, H4, H1 is going to be Benadryl and that's going to be respiratory and skin H2, GI tract. H3 is your brain, H4 is bone marrow. And those mast cells hold inflammatory cytokines and histamine, but also platelet activating factor and other things. And the mast cell itself is the intersection of neuro and endocrine. It's the neuroendocrine kind of connection and integration of that information. And they're everywhere, by the way, and they're part of that system. They're there, we need them. But when they're over expressed, they are problematic. And there's a condition called histodelia where you actually have neuroinflammation from excess histamine, which is a neurotransmitter, freely crosses the blood. Brain barrier, lights your brain up. And so you give that person an antihistamine and all of A sudden, they're saying that's probably what happened there. The other confounding variable is something like limbic dysfunction. And the hardwired trauma of this can activate these mast cells. So it might be nothing else. So what's that in the way of the root cause? And then this is something that Heyman talks about, because I think it drives him crazy, is he's like, we didn't all just wake up and start having mast cell problems. Like, this isn't how we evolve. It's a histamine issue. Some people have mast cell activation syndrome. Very few have mastocytosis, which is a true horrible condition that's incredibly rare. But the reality is that when we go back to SIRS and the mitochondrial genes that are dysregulated, there are two genes that are measured on that GENIE test that are histamine pathways that get upregulated. One of them is called histamine decarboxylase. And if it's red, it is lit up like mine was. And that means every nucleated cell in the body is now an engine of histamine, not just mast cells. So you could do mast cell stabilization and they're still not feeling better. Why? Because you also have to address the other issue. So it's a lot of downstream and upstream intervention, plus reverse those sirs. So in the context of if the root cause is sirs, theoretically cure. If the root cause is sirs, and then theoretically, you have to figure out what the AND is and address that as well. You have to get aggressive with these patients and do up and downstream because cromolyn or quercetin is probably not enough. You also need some antihistamines, diamine oxidase. Maybe they need benzos if they're really bad. There's a lot that goes on in unpacking that issue.

And actually the last three questions are repeat. So that's actually the end. That's it. So we did it. We're done. So I hope you all enjoyed this. All things sirs, it's been a pleasure. We will continue to do these. I think I don't want to say our next thing is going to be just in case it changes between now. So just in case of change, we're.

Going to do more videos, more topics.

Yes, we're going to discuss more.

We're going to make more videos about certain topics. This was the big one for us to kind of get the point out because it's. It's the most confusing, the most complicated.

It's hopefully it was helpful. You know, this was helpful. Like, follow us wherever. However you do these things, share the information, because ultimately, this is how we get the word out. This is how people learn about these things. And take care. Be well. We'll talk to you all soon.

Take care.