The Patient Experience

Welcome back again to our next episode. And today we're actually going to talk about the patient experience here at Richmond Integrative Functional Medicine. So what I mean by that is there's a whole experience that we've curated from filling out the paperwork to come in to the website, to all the educational materials, social media to the office space. Right now we're actually in our lobby right now. In the background you'll see things popping in and out, even just how everything works. We actually tried to create an experience that's a healing place but also that's patient centered. And one of the major people behind that experience is actually the co CEO of Richmond Integrative Functional Medicine, Becky Hartman. A year leading up to the transition she was over like this building out the patient experience. Everything from online, how the newsletters are put together to the when you call or off when you call office, for example, we have two nurses on answer the phones and that does not happen here physically which you all may notice that when you come in the office phones are not ringing care the front desk person is able to focus on you. All these things are part of the patient experience to have so that you have the best experience possible. And the main person curing that was actually the co CEO Becky. So we're going to talk to you talk to Becky today about that, about the patient experience and some of the parts of that and the process of that. What, what kind of. To start off what, what was your major goal and the way, the way of thinking behind curating the patient experience here.

So we want to have people come in and be. We all have busy lives. We all have, you know, a million things pulling us in different directions whether it's your, your job, your family, you know, your just all of our other obligations. And we really need this, we really desire this to be a space where people can come and truly focus on themselves like their healing, their and you know, learn about their situation. The things that could really move the needle for them on their health and not be, you know, we really want like a peaceful, healing, enjoyable environment and it not to feel like a typical doctor's office. Not that there's anything wrong with doctor's offices but you know, a lot of us who struggled with our health and had chronic health issues really have a lot of honestly trauma like from the between medical gaslighting to you know, just trying over and over again to figure out what's going on and not getting the answers that we need or things like that. And from the moment that you walk in the door, it doesn't feel the same here. And in a, in a hopefully really, really good way because we want it to feel different. We want it to be a different experience. We want it to be a peaceful environment where, like you mentioned, the phones aren't, you know, ringing and it isn't like, oh, hold please. Hold please. You know, when you're standing at the front desk, you have the attention of the person that's helping you and you feel seen and heard and, and invested into from the minute that you walk in the door. Also, just even the environment, you know, comfy seating and cozy places and live plants, you can probably see behind me, just really setting it apart from, you know, maybe what we've, a lot of us have experienced before.

And to put things in perspective, we probably get between 50 and 80 phone calls, messages a day. And so which is a lot, which is really busy for our nurses. And when you come into the office here, you don't feel that our nurses are busy, that the front desk is busy, that you're inconvenienced. And that whole medical trauma thing, that's the thing I've learned a lot, particularly taking care, particularly having kids with special needs, being a husband of a spouse of a kid with special needs. And then even the patients like the healthcare system trauma. There's a reason. There's a reason people's blood pressure goes up in the other doctor's office. There's a reason people put off going to see the doctor. And it's trying to create an environment where people feel like they have people who care about them, who are invested in them, who want what's best for them, no matter what, aren't going to give up on them. And how do you create a, an environment that curates that feeling? Not perfectly, but that's our, our goal. So lobby here. You know, we're sitting here and this will be going in and out. We have the honeycomb behind us which actually alludes to our bees that are currently all dead. I think it's. Oh, we used to do bees. We still do bees. We'll do be new bees in the spring again. Well, recording this actually at the end of the year, actually December 30th. Well, well, date night.

Right.

Well. And the living plants. Actually, I, I did that part of the research. I did not realize that these living plants actually are filtering the air out. There's actually air growing behind there, blowing through there. And this is something that my, my co. CEO figured out before I did that the plant roots actually grow on the back of the wall, they have bacteria that actually pull out, almost like. Act like little fenestrated HEPA filters. But actually there's literature on them actually pulling up particles from the air. So these plants are actually filtering the air that we're sitting here. And they're also nice, relaxing. So what are some other, you know, when people send messages, emails, what are some other things that you thought about in curating the. The patient's experience?

One thing that's actually been a little bit of a struggle is we have really had to figure out how to prioritize our members over just the general public calling in to ask questions, which I know frustrates people sometimes, but in order to give people the best experience, we have to be, you know, just like you said, we. The phones don't ring in the office, you know, at the front desk. We've. We've arranged it so that we have people handling that off site, and they. Then they can be dedicated to, like, answering those questions. But it is really for members. And as far as phone calls go, we just have to be a little bit, you know, careful about our time and. And things like that. I know that can be a little bit of a frustration for people, but when you are part of RAFM and you are a member, we absolutely prioritize, you know, access and care and you know, that your questions are getting answered. Always trying to seek how we can do better. We get a lot of feedback from patients, and we're always taking that to heart and trying to find ways that we can be better and better and better. Do you want me to walk through the process of becoming a member?

Okay, so that was terrible. Part of that. I want you to walk through the process. Part of it was just with the getting 50 phone calls, people back in the day, we used to have people literally keep a nurse on their phone for an hour, an hour and a half, asking the questions and realized that when we started getting 10 calls, 15 calls a day now more that we just can't do that. We have to focus on. Focus on our people, our current people and our future people, our current members and our future members. And so why don't you walk us through the. Part of the process of some of the thinking about how we people may apply, what that means, the actual application process, all the way up to their first moment in the office. I'm not sure. Take it from there because.

Sure. So. So this is kind of been a passion project of mine for a few years now just to really design an experience that you know, there may be some hiccups here or there, but we, we mostly want to design an experience where people have a clear pathway. We're finding the right people, the right people are finding us. And we never want to somebody to come into the membership and then feel as if we've wasted their time or their money. So that's where the application process comes in. So we do have an application and a lot of people don't really understand why we would do that, but ultimately it is so that we find the people who are ready to come in and get to work. It's going to be partnership between the patient and the doctor and there is a lot of hard work that's necessary to, to heal and we kind of need to find the people the most ready to be doing that. So that's kind of where the application process comes in. I know that that's a little bit of a, it's unique to us over many other practices. So. And that's really where that's coming from.

And to add to that, the, you know, someone might not be ready personally, professionally, family wise, financially now, but they might be ready a year or two from now. So we actually have things that we're not going to talk about that like information, books to read, blogs, all our educational stuff to kind of nurture them until they're ready to jump all the way in. We don't want someone to come in like tippy toe come in and then not be personally ready. We're not ready to take care of them. We want everything to be perfect as good as we can do it. And so we have created a lot of things but as someone comes in again, you're wrenching the application to make sure that they're a good fit and ready to kind of dive in. Because it's a lot, it can be overwhelming and many, many people after the first visit are like, wow, I had no idea there's this much stuff. And so people really need to be ready to dive all the way in. And the membership, it's a two way street. It kind of binds us to the member. Like we are promising to be there and walk you through this process. It also binds them to us. Like they're not gonna, you know, be one visit, one share. They're, they're committing to working through the process because healing is a process and your health is a process that is a journey. And the consumer mentality that you kind of, you know, take this and not that that, not that that that has affected our healthcare system in a very Negative way. We want to reintroduce the physician partnership. You know, the idea that I think about my patient, all the practitioners here think about their patients after hours. I think about their patients in the morning, but they think about the patients on the weekends sometimes. And so in order, in order to cure it, go back in some ways to the old school, the way it's supposed to be, but using this functional message.

Right? Yeah. So, so post application, then we send digitally a whole series of just all the, the details of the membership, the paperwork. You can find out the, the basic details before ever even applying. But once you get into the, the nitty gritty, so to speak, you know, all of those forms, you know, you typically will walk into a doctor's office and unfortunately, what's often the case is you'll get sent a stack of digital paperwork to fill out. You spend your time filling that out and then you walk into the office and you get handed a clipboard anyway with. And you know, then you have to sit there, you have to arrive to your appointment early, you need to sit there again and you're like, I already did this. We really wanted to do away with all of that. We wanted people be. Especially because this process is a little bit more in depth. You're going to fill out a health intake that is much more detailed than what most, you know, most parents of special needs understand, but those are the ones where they, they know there's like a whole binder. Um, but this is, you know, you're really going to be digging in and, you know, remembering everything that you can remember about your, your health situation and trying to record that so that you have a good starting point and your doctor can review it and, and you kind of are starting off on the right foot. Um, but we want you to be able to do all of that from the comfort of your home, where you can reference, you know, know, other documents or maybe even look up your labs, you know, from other things that you've had done or, or those types of things. And then when you come into the office, that's all finished, like you've, you've done all of that, you can come in, you know, you do your basic insurance stuff and, you know, meet our lovely front desk person and you can just sit and, and maybe relax for a few minutes before you're called back for your, for your intake visit. Um, and that's pretty unique because it is, it's an investment and you don't want to be pressured and, and feeling like you only have 10 or 15 minutes to try to, you know, consolidate your entire health history up to this point. Um, so that's, that's where that's come from. I don't know how specific you want me to get into. Yeah, so that's, that's, that's the idea behind that part of it.

And like it's persons, they come in, they come back and they see the practitioner. And we all do things a little differently here because ultimately the practice medicine is a very individualistic thing. But part of that is prepping the physician. Prepping. You know, Dr. Paginski, he literally the week prior, reviews patients, charts, use them. He's super ready for the visit, super efficient. But he spends 30, 45 minutes before the person shows up reviewing the chart. I'm a little different. I kind of walk in the room fresh. I spend all the time in the room with the patient, but I'm typically in the room longer. So it ends up being the same amount of time. I just do a lot of the processing and they're with a patient. But you're looking at two and a half hours being two and a half to three hours of the physician's time for that first visit. Going through their history, going through all the stuff they filled out, going throughout, you know, what are you looking to, what are you expecting out of this? What are your goals, your history? Because this, you want this to be optimal and then that against two and a half to three hours, plus or minus a datum over the next six weeks, plus or miles, depending on when their follow up is. As labs come in, we review them and send the patient, hey, this is the result. These are some thoughts we'll talk about when you see you back. And so there's this initial process of working through stuff. Then there's then the follow up where we're getting data points in, referring back to the chart. I'll pull the chart back up, look at it and go, oh, that's what, oh, that's. Oh, let me make a note of that and I'll make a little note. And then there's the follow up six or eight weeks later where we kind of take all that, summarize it together, give a person their own individualized, personalized plan based on their health history, based on their triggers in their life, their health issues, but also things we discovered. And then that becomes the roadmap for the next six months to a year we kind of walk through how do we address these things. And the interesting thing about our body's ability to self heal and self repair Is you have this and this is, can be overcoming for people. Very commonly you kind of lay out this buffet and call it. Sometimes I actually say it. It's like I kind of project online on people. It's just like, here's everything. And they're like, whoa. And it's like, okay, now we're in a. This is a buffet. A lot of stuff we don't have to necessarily eat from right here on the buffet. There might only be two or three things you need. Maybe you need five things. That's part of the process. Our body's amazing ability to self heal. Repair means that you don't have to get everything a hundred percent right because that's not the real world. And your body's actually, your body makes its own vitamin K, your body makes its own B vitamins. Your body can literally take bacteria in your gut and make short chain fatty acids that heal your brain and your gut from. They're just amazing. So the point is that we don't necessarily always have to deal with all those things for the person's body heal, but that's part of the process. And we walk through that. That might take three months, six months on my patients, my patients come back eight weeks later, 12 weeks later, and they're, they're killing it. They've done everything. And you're. I'm just like almost blown away. Like, wow, this really, really. Body heal wants. Your body wants to heal so badly. Wants to heal so badly. Sometimes it's a stumbling process and sometimes it's a year into it. The person's like, we finally get to the chronic Lyme disease because we have to work on the mold and their mindset and their trauma and stuff. But through that process, which is interaction, like a tip, like our functional clinic, there's also all the back end stuff which you've been part of putting together. There's the people call in, the nurses pick the phone up. Why don't you talk about part of that structuring here again to have like the patient experience where once people have their first visit and their follow up, like what is, what are the things we've done after that initial six or eight weeks while he's under your mainland to like help walk the person through figuring out their healing process.

So, so yeah, one of the things that we incorporated a couple years ago into the process early on for people is so just to recap briefly, you apply. Not everybody gets accepted this round and we're going to later on talk about some other things, other tools and things we have for people if you're not ready yet and, but when you join the membership then you get your paperwork, you fill out your paperwork, you do a lot of your membership, payment processing and everything. You come in for your initial intake, you get all your labs drawn then, and then six to eight weeks later you come back in for your follow up which is the, the buffet, the I don't know, vomit buffets if we want to say that or not.

Sometimes you don't feel like they're like.

Going this, you're get, you're definitely drinking from the fire hose. Potentially you may feel like you're drinking from the fire hose at that follow up visit when you're getting your plan and everything. And so immediately following that visit we've incorporated health coaching and we include four complimentary health coaching visits with each of our in person members in the Advanced Functional Medicine membership. We now have two memberships. We can talk about that a little bit too. I'll mention right now just that both mirror each other pretty closely. They're just a bit different and there's a lot of information about how they're different on our website. But, but we want the process to pretty much be very similar for both. Um, and so health coaching happens, you know, within a week of that, of that follow up visit where the coach can really, you know, when you're like oh my gosh, I have to eat Paleo, what do I, how do I do this in my life? Like what if my family won't eat that and they want me to make two meals every dinner or whatever, you know, what does that look like? And kind of really help you realize our family eats different than, than like the average American family and the food's really good. Nobody comes to our house and has a meal and thinks like ew, gross, what did you just feed me? Like, it's all very delicious. It is a little more time intensive in the kitchen but, but it's yummy. So I think just realizing that like you're the experience of all of it is going to be still a good one. And health coaches really can help make it access. You'll have one health coach, but we have a couple different health coaches you might work with and they really can help make that piece of it just a lot more accessible. So if you're like, I have no idea what's even stuck in my pantry, they can help with that. If you're like, I have, you know, this weird back pain thing, you know, they might be like, oh, I have this great, you know, ball that I use, that I roll, you know, just all across the gamut of things. They have great ideas that can help make all of it a lot more accessible and less daunting and kind of help maybe focus a little bit in on one or two steps that you can take rather than feeling like, oh my gosh, I have to figure out how to incorporate 75 things into my lifestyle in the next two weeks. It's not, that's not the goal. Um, but it is good to have, you know, some ideas of what's going on and a lot of people will naturally sort of have a concept of like where they think they would want to start and I think that's helpful too. But if you don't, then the help could. Coaches can really help, you know, refine what, what to do next.

I mean one of the things we, one of the reasons we add the health coaching onto practice was we saw a disparity between patient outcomes. We saw one group of people that were killing it, who coming in and like blood pressure's dropping, their cholesterol's dropping, their chronic fatigue is gone, their long Covid remission and it's just like great outcomes. Another group of patients were like, just struggling, like how do I take my pills, you know, how do I take my supplements, how do I make breakfast, how do I work on just all these really basic foundational things that if you don't get right, all the stuff just doesn't work quite as well because the foundation's functional medicine, diet, exercise, sleep, stress reduction, having meaning, value in life, which is amazing. Trials and struggles you can tolerate and deal with when you have meaning and value and you have a purpose. Um, like those basic things, like if those aren't in check, you can take all the curcumin and fish oil you want and all the lotus naltrexone and anabox free chronic lamb or whatever. And you won't see the same benefit as when you get your gut straight, your diet squared away, you're sleeping well, you're, you're removing toxins from the environment, you're having exercise, movement and meaningful relationships. It's just amazing how sometimes those basic things make everything else work better. We actually had this conversation. Like I said, our bees died and the co CEO because we need RNA titles, right? Always talking about, you know, in the bee world if you actually go and talk to your bees, the bees do better. When you have like this just crazy like having someone talk to you, being listened to, being heard even for bees can make it There between thriving hives and hives. And that is a common knowledge in the apiary world. And it sounds kind of weird, but you start, you have people who do gardening. Like, yeah, if you talk to plants, it's just amazing how you know that meaningful life, having a purpose, having been doing something meaningful, having responsibility, all these things impact your health. And sometimes you don't realize how some basic things like that. And so just the whole process. So we do that. So also some of the things you created is we actually have nurses that answer the phones when people, when our members call. Can you talk to us about like, how. What the thinking behind that was? Because that's, that's unique because typically when people call doctor's office, it's a front desk or a medical system, they don't actually have a RN answering.

So we do have an off site RN who she's really more active in the portal messages. Just, you know, when you have a sensibility about how to answer certain questions, I think it just helps a lot. It's when we initially. The person who's doing it now, when we initially interviewed her, she actually just started talking about patient care and her zest and zeal for doing that. And one of the comments that she made was that she really loves taking the time with a patient to help them understand. No matter. She said, no matter how many times I need to contin, you know, explain something, I really want to make sure that they understand, you know, what the doctor's telling them or, you know, what, whatever their, their specific question is. She really like takes delight in helping people go from, you know, maybe being frustrated or overwhelmed to actually understanding like, this is what this means. And she loves to walk people through that process. So, um, we actually created a role for her that we didn't even know that we were gonna have because it was just, we were like, that's what we need. Um, and it just takes, you know, that's her peer focus is just, you know, helping, you know, address those things. She isn't physically here in the office checking people in for their appointments and things like that. So that actually helps, you know, her be fully focused on that. And it isn't like a, you know, oh, in between this patient and the next patient, I'm like quickly trying to like, respond to this thing and I may need to be more brief just so that I'm not getting behind. And then when you call, when a member calls our main number, we have essentially a medical virtual assistant who is well versed in, you know, how practices Run and things like that and has really invested into learning about RFM specifically. And again, just somebody who cares so much about people and wants to create a great experience for them. So that has been actually really cool. Honestly, it was a little bit born out of having some difficulty finding the right people to fill certain roles. And we thought, well, what things could we do? Could we have be a virtual role? And it just opened us up to. It's creative, but it opened us up to a lot of different. A different model than is probably typical. And it's been really, really good. And I think, overall, anybody who's been with us for over two years can see a very dramatic difference in just the care that we're able to offer to our members and things like that. I also wanted to go back, if it's okay, to, you know, we were talking about overwhelm and people coming in. I want to make the point that we have patients who come in. Who are they? They sign up to become. They apply, you know, they do the paperwork, and they immediately will just start consuming anything that we have online. Um, and they start implementing changes right away. And those people, or they. Previously, with our online community, they would join the online community and they would just start putting pieces together themselves while waiting for their first appointment with the doctor and come in, just. It was like adding rocket fuel by the time they're seeing their doctor. Um, and that's great when somebody is like that. And then there are also people who are like, I have no idea where to start. I feel I know something's wrong. Everyone's telling me I'm fine. My labs supposedly are fine. And I just don't even know where to begin. And I see that you have all this great. These great resources, and I don't even know what to pick up and look at. I don't know whether I should be looking at mold resources or, you know, lime resources, or if I have some other thing going on. And that's okay, too. Like, wherever you're coming from, some people really do. They, you know, they come in and it's like they've already. They've already dramatically, like, altered their health trajectory even before the visit. And then other people really are gonna take advantage of all of those supports that we've added in to try to make this experience give you what you need and get the answers that you need for. For your health, for your. You know, what to even do next. Um, I just wanted to make the point that it really is. There's a gamut. It doesn't mean if you're not sure where to start, we're not gonna light going to like exclude somebody from the membership for that reason. Mainly we just really don't want people to feel like their money or time is being wasted. And we've kind of figured out how to identify those things. And it's pretty cool what we've been able to develop. But we really do want to support people. No matter where you fall on that spectrum of like super self starter, you're gonna just, you know, hit the ground running or really needing more guidance that those are all fines. Everybody can come in kind of where you are and it doesn't. There's no competition, there's. Everybody's journey is gonna be different. And really the whole point of everything is that we're accommodating for that no matter where you are, that we want you to feel cared for and respected and heard seen and all of that.

And that kind of leads into the last part. Talking about some new things we've been doing. We. One of the things we realized, I realized with seeing all the patients is that there's three major places people get stuck. I've been calling it the Triangle of Health. We might change the name, but right now the name is Triangle of Health. That's got stress and sleep. And we've realized that this is where people get stuck the most. And so we've actually turned that into its own. In the, in the process of turning it into its own course. We've already launched the GUT course. And it's really interesting. I've had patients working with me for the last four years who took the GUT course and just learned so much. Cause there's an opportunity for me to do small educational snippets and bite sized allotments, you know, five minutes to 12, 15 minutes snippets, nothing crazy and walk people through their gut. And that's available on the website now. But to actually realize this is a big resource and how can we not just put more jet fuel on what people are coming in person, but also those who aren't quite ready, who aren't quite ready for financial reasons or other reasons, personal reason, distance. The reality is that most people in the United States don't have access to a functional practitioner. Just not common. So we actually bring this whole thing together and one of the first courses, many courses we put was the connected path, which is born of. And it's kind of cheesy, the connected path, but it was me connecting the dots, you know, to people's health and so one of those things that came out of that is actually the Connected Cleanse, which actually I think you are planning on adding to your personal journey. What could you walk through really quickly, like, what led you to that? Because you're doing. Can be doing that inside of a community of people who are taking a proactive stance for their health.

Sure. So we are developing a new program called Connected Health. And the Connected Health Colon gut is the first piece of that that we sort of put immediately out into the world to help. And that's, you know, what some of our patients have. Have progressed through and felt like it was really valuable. Even if they're already. They already have their very specific individualized program. They're still getting a lot out of it, which is like my favorite thing to hear. Um, I love, you know, anything that helps get. Get progress. You know, healing happening is a win. So we are working on that process is actually. Can I talk about that a little bit? Like, what that is? So we've had an online community previously. We actually did a course in 2020, in October to help a lot of people who were coming forward with.

I.

Think I can say Covid on our own video. Hopefully I can say it. Hopefully I can say it. Wherever this is going, they can say, so long Covid, long haulers, you know, people who were having lingering issues. We. We did of course, sort of primarily support those people, but on the. On an extension of that, it really could help anybody with a chronic health issue. And we added a little community to the side of that, and people really wanted the community to continue. So we then launched it as a separate community with the courses sort of attached to it, and it was wonderful and lovely. But what we kind of learned through the process is again, that whole concept of like, you know, you're blasting people with fire hose, and it's sort of like people need to know where to go next. Like, what, where do I start? What do I do next? You know, what does this look like? And it's the same process that we have to walk people through. I say we. Like I'm walking people through it. I don't see anybody hipocanna work here clinically, but, you know, it's the same process that happens in the office when you're meeting one on one with your doctor. We were kind of like, how do we. How do we turn this into something where that same process can be followed by anyone and we individualize it to their situation? And we've. We've, I think, kind of cracked the code on that and really, really excited to begin. It's, it's coming soon. Um, and part of that is a special diet that we've created called the Connected Cleanse that is just not, it's not as strict as, like an elimination diet. Um, it's a little more achievable, it's a little more accessible than a elimination diet, which is, you know, those are pretty strict and often very necessary. But what we, what our hypothesis is is that it would potentially for most people be easier to at least start with something where it's pretty close. You know, you're taking out most of the things that are going to bother you or be affecting your health, and you're going to feel really good pretty quickly. But it's also an inaccessible way that you can incorporate into your life. And then from there, we actually have developed a way to determine whether that's the path to continue down or whether you need to proceed to an elimination diet, which is then gonna be so much easier because you've already built the habits around the slightly more accessible version of the diet. Um, so I'm really excited about it. Um, we've tested a lot of the recipe, we've tested the recipes, we've come up with just, you know, delicious tasting and not too difficult. You know, it's a relatively simple meal plan, but also not so simple that you feel like you're eating, you know, a piece of poached chicken breast for every meal or something like that. It has variety. It's very, very workable into most people's lifestyles. I know for our family, we can make these recipes and feed them to our kids and they enjoy them. So our kids are a little bit weird. I have to be fully frank about that. But, but it's good food that tastes yummy. It's not focused on deprivation. It's just focused on eating different food that is gonna fuel your body, give you the nutrients that you need and that you can still enjoy, but you're shifting your focus away from some things that maybe aren't doing you any favors in, in your diet. So, and it's not about calorie counting or anything like that. It's just about eating nutrient dense, you know, foods that are, again, they're delicious, but just kind of spelling it out so that it's easy to implement, easier to implement and incorporate.

And this is all part of our plan to continue having things for people, patients, either people in person or people who can't be in person, but to continue to, like, action, act, to continue to Work on things to get to people to help them bodies heal because one of our core values that you were made for health and that your body can self heal and self repair if you just get the right nutrition in your body and your roof to stomach blocks. So on that note, I think we're at the end of this conversation. Do you have any parting words for people as far as like patient experience, how we've developed things parting thought about the whole.

Connected health is our curated experience that is also individualized. Much like the in person experience is to walk people through the same type of process. Anybody can access it. It's not geographically restrictive. The only, you know, potential hiccups could be if you're in a very different country or something where you have access to different foods that could potentially, you know, you might need to adapt the food plan a little bit. But it's not geographically limited. It's, it's very financially accessible and it's really, really, really exciting how we figured out how to be able to address these bigger things for people. You know, the gut, the stress, the sleep and part of stress being mindset and, and things that often aren't like incorporated or even acknowledged in medicine but that are critical to healing, being able to take place. So you know, they're sort of parallel tracks a little bit. We've got our, you know, in person membership and this will be an online membership but it's going to change a lot of lives and that's super exciting and. I can't wait, I can't wait to get it out there.

Awesome. Well, thank you very much for tuning in. We'll catch you next time with more information and take care of.