Transform Your Child's Health with Dr. Elisa Song!

Welcome back everybody. I'm so excited today to be with my friend and colleague Alexa Song. She's an amazing, amazing practitioner, one of America's first pediatric holistic physician. So after a brief introduction we're just going to dive into it and talk about pediatric holistic functional medicine, health and a lot of really cool topics. We've already been talking for quite some time now. Before he starts, I'm really excited to get into this. Dr. Song is one of the first holistic peer pediatricians in the country. She attended Stanford University for undergraduate studies followed by NYU and completed her residency at UCSF and Pediatrics. She founded Whole Body Family Wellness which is an integrated pediatric practice in Belmont, California which is one of the first and most highly regarded holistic pediatric practices in the country. She created Healthy Happy Kids which is dedicated to empowering parents to take charge of their kids health naturally. She's integrated conventional pediatrics and functional medicine, holistic medicine, homeopathy, acupuncture, herbal medicine, essential oils. She's also a lecturer for the, the center for Education for Development and Clinical Homeopathy, Academy of Pain Research Institute for Functional Medicine, Holistic Pediatric association. And she actually just had, she actually is the head of education for a 4M which is one of the top functional medicine education places in the country for their pediatrics. So I'm super excited to have you here with us today and talk about holistic pediatrics.

Well, thanks for having me Aaron. I mean, yes, we've been, we've been talking for quite a while offline so we're like we better get this started right.

The button. So some of people may not be familiar with you, with your, your story. You know, you're obviously well educated holistic pediatrician. Could you just give us a brief overview of your journey, your personal journey, how you went from a highly educated academic type pediatrician to now doing, you know, one of the first actually pediatric holistic pediatric physicians in the country. Like what that journey kind of looked like for you?

Yeah, you know, it's, it's. I don't know that my journey is all that interesting necessarily because you know a lot of, a lot of practitioners, physicians who go into more integrated functional medicine way of practicing it really is, is typically because of a health crisis maybe they had or a family member had in conventional medicine didn't meet all of their needs so they, they had to seek out other, other forms of care. And so, and that, that wasn't my story. So when I was an undergraduate thinking about what I want to do with my life, I You know, I knew I wanted to work with kids. I mean, that was always 100%, I want to work with children. And I thought, maybe I'll be a teacher. I actually landed upon, you know, I think I want to be a civil rights lawyer. And I was all set. I took the LSATs, and I was going to go to Washington, D.C. and lobby for children's rights and healthcare rights and all of that. And I even spent two summers doing that. And so that was my path. And I didn't want to do medicine. And the reason I didn't want to do medicine was because my mom was a very, very, very busy solo OBGYN growing up. And I never saw her. Not that I never saw her, but she was busy. I mean, she was up, you know, all hours of the night, I mean, delivering all her own babies. And I thought, you know, that was my view of medicine. I'm like, I just. I don't think I want to do that. Right. And so when I was an undergrad, I was a junior, I'd already taken the LSATs, and I thought, well, I've taken all of my, you know, requirements. I can coast through senior year. I ran across this flyer, and this is now maybe 19, we're going to say 1990, I think it was so quite a while ago. So I ran across a flyer on one of the telephone poles, and it was a conference of the American Holistic Medical Association. And I was like, what. What is that? Holistic medicine. And so, you know, as a junior, I drove myself down to the Santa Clara Convention center, and I decided, I'm going to take a. Take a listen. And my mind was totally blown. I remember I heard from folks who were just starting to get known. This was, you know, late 80s, Andrew Weil, Deepak Chopra, Joan Borisenko, Marianne Williamson. And, And I remember calling my mom afterwards. No cell phones, no text. I remember calling her and saying, mom, I think I want to be a naturopathic doctor. And she was just, she. She was kind of quiet. And then she's like, what's that? You know, that was kind of the refrain I got. I mean, back then, it was really not. Not well known. And, and so nobody dissuaded me. But also no one really ever encouraged me. And, and the, the common response was, well, why don't you go to medical school then? And then you can learn that other stuff later. So. So I switched gears. I went to medical school and, and, you know, again, when I, when, when I was in med school, I really didn't see any part of pediatrics that I wanted for a career. I didn't want to be a hospitalist. Primary care was, you know, seeing one patient every five, ten minutes. I'm like, this is not, this is not helping kids to my best ability either. But same thing, you know, life. Life gives you the lessons that you need. And again, as I was wrapping up, going back into policy because I thought I can use my health degree to become a public health advocate, I ran across another flyer, this time at Berkeley. I was there, and it was for a Food as Medicine conference. And so this was 1992. And I'm like, food is medicine. What is that concept? So same thing. I'm a curious mind. I went, and again, mind blown. And that's when I first heard about functional medicine. That's when I heard a very young Mark Hyman speaking, you know, talking about all these concepts where I'm like, whoa, wow, food can actually prevent or reverse chronic disease. And so from there, I was hooked. And then I just started learning, learning, learning. And when I opened up my practice in, in 2004, it was as an integrative functional medicine practice. So I didn't, you know, I, I, I had the experience of being in a very conventional world during residency and shortly after, when I did some work in my friend's pediatric office. But my intent was always to do something more integrative and holistic.

Gotcha. So you went straight from your training right into holistic medicine in a private practice. That's pretty cool. It's really interesting hearing from Andrew Wilde back in the day, you know, before. I don't know how famous he was back then, but before he became known.

And whatnot, I mean, he wasn't really that. I mean, of course he was known because he was at this conference, but it's not like, you know, you know, now if you mentioned Andrew Weil or Deepak Chopra, many people that you run across will have heard of, of him. And back then it was like, who's that?

Yeah, so I feel like, you know, integrative, like holistic medicine. Integrative medicine has been a big, big, big change. Which term do you like to use? Actually, maybe that's a. Let me ask you that question. Which term do you like to use and why? Because I always struggle with. Is it holistic? Is it integrative? Is it, Is it functional? Is it integrative? Functional, Holistic, translational. Like, which term do you use?

That's such a great question. You know, when I was starting out, I used the term Holistic, because that's what people were used to saying, I want a holistic pediatrician. I want someone more, you know, holistic minded. But, but really and truly, when you think about physicians, especially pediatricians, we should all be holistic. We should all be looking at kids in the, in the context of their whole family life, you know, friends, social, emotional life, school. I mean, all of that community life. And so now I really prefer the term integrative, but that's kind of integrative for me. Really embodies the fact that we're not throwing out conventional medicine. I mean, there is a time and a place for conventional pediatrics because I, you know, in the beginning of my training I was, I really, you know, moved away from a lot of conventional, you know, pharmaceuticals. I thought, oh my gosh, that's how our kids landed up, you know, in trouble in the first place. Right. But then you come to a place where you realize, you know what, there's a time and a place. It's just they're overused and inappropriately used and we can do the mop up when they are, are necessary, you know, these medications. But that, you know, and integrative doesn't quite get at everything though, because it can mean anything. Right? I mean, for me, I integrate conventional PEDs with a lot of other modalities, including functional medicine. And know I do acupuncture and homeopathy and, and you know, essential oils in the practice. But, but it can be very different from another integrative physician who might use integrate ayurvedic and functional and conventional medicine. So, so then even, even with that, you know, I always tell parents, just when you're looking for a pediatrician or a pediatric practitioner to partner with, you want to make sure that it's the right fit for you and your family. Because there's lots of different ways you can be integrative.

Yeah. And sometimes it's just finding someone who's open to new ideas. Like finding a practitioner who, if you as a patient bring an idea to them, hey, I read about this. That their first response isn't to roll their eyes and say like, no. Or hey, would you mind checking a vitamin D level or an hscrp or you know, could you check my MTHFR status? And the response is not no. The response is if they don't know about, they're at least like, well, huh, yeah, let's check and see what. And then I'll learn too. Like, you want someone who's open to learn Because I'm still Practicing medicine. I'm still learning, you know.

Yeah, well, you know, I love that you say that because that, I think is the most important quality for any physician, whether you're conventional or integrative, is just retaining that, that open mind, that kind of scientific inquiry, like, oh, that's so interesting, I would love to learn more. And then you do the research, you know, you look and see is this something that, that's worthwhile, you know, for your patient or. Um, it's true. Because, you know, honestly, I mean, I've had also interactions with integrative practitioners or holistic practitioners who are very, you know, narrow minded to anything conventional. So it can't, it's gotta be both. I mean, there's, there's never anything that's clearly, you know, a black or white answer. I mean, almost never.

I think that's, that's a great, great thing you said right there. Because it's like you'll meet, you know, practitioners that, you know, I was thinking about a local chiropractor who thinks you can cure everything with spinal manipulation or another acupuncturist who thinks you can do everything with acupuncture. And literally there's a time and place for everything. And I feel like as a medical doctor, like my, you know, like yourself, I'm kind of like the, the construction chief or the, the, the main manager that needs to care. No, you need, probably need to see an orthopedic surgeon. No, you need to see a physical therapist. No, you need a myofascial specialist like the. To. You have to know all these things to be able to tell, to know clinically when the right time for the right practitioner. That's, I think with integrative part kind of comes in, that can be super helpful particularly. Yeah, you deal with more complex patients.

Well, what's interesting too, I was having this conversation with, with a friend who, she is an integrative allergy immunologist. Amazing. And you know, I think that one of the, the hazards of going into or working with a family from a functional medicine standpoint or root cause standpoint is the idea that there is always a root cause or that we can always identify that. And that can, for some of my parents, it's led them down kind of rabbit holes of trying to figure out what was the thing, the one thing or the two things in my child's past that that happened that made X, Y or Z occur. And then it becomes a little bit more, I mean, what's the right way to say it? There, there can be A lot of, of guilt and, and you know, self blame there. Like, why did I, why did I do that? Why did I let the doctor do that? You know, why didn't I know better? And then, and then on the flip side, I have families who, they're already embracing a more functional, you know, you know, health, health forward lifestyle and, and doing all the things quote. Right. And yet their kids still get sick, you know, with eczema or maybe develop an autoimmune illness. And it's like, you know what, there's so many complexities to our body that we, we just are kind of scratching the surface and, and you know, we can do all the right things and sometimes still, you know, things, things don't turn out the way we would like them to. They probably are turning out better than they would have otherwise. Right. And we still keep moving forward, but it's just, you know, I always want to make sure that, that parents and kids understand that, you know, we, we just, we always are trying to do our best and, and you know, we don't want to ever have any regrets or, or blame ourselves for anything that doesn't go right.

Yeah, that's a great, great point because sometimes, you know, you want to, you, you would never give up looking for the root cause. You never give up looking for connecting the dots. But sometimes you have to realize that our bodies, they just seem to be infinitely complex. And the complexities, it's almost like every time you go a little deeper, it's like science doesn't work out where you find a new fact and everything gets simpler, it gets more complicated. And so, you know, basic things like food is medicine or basic, you know, healing environment, gut health. But sometimes when you get in the weeds, it's really more deep than we've. We even have knowledge for right now, which excites me but also keeps me on my edge. I'm always have to keep on reading and learning things which actually want to transition to something. You mentioned that it was a topic which I was actually, I was asking you before we start, hey, was there anything you'd like to talk about? And you said the vagus nerve. And I'm like thinking kids in the vagal nerve, pediatrics and vagal nerve. I am so interested to see what you have to say about that because an adult, I'm thinking more trauma and mold and Lyme and a bunch of things. So I'm kind of curious from a holistic pediatric perspective with you looking at vagal nerve function, like, what does that mean?

Yeah. So you know, I, I love, I, I would say, you know, for, from my standpoint, my two favorite topics in the whole wide world to educate on and, and, and work on are, you know, the gut microbiome and the vagus nerve. And I tell parents and kids and the teenagers in my office, if I can, if you can learn two life skills, two things, by the time you head off to college, that's going to set you up for life. And the first thing is learning how to be very, very savvy food label readers, right? Learning how to choose foods that serve your body, brain, immune system. Number two is learning how to regulate your nervous system. I mean, those two things, right? So key, and we were talking offline about how there are some things that are the bigger hitters, that if we focus on those, a lot of other things fall into place. And that's so key because as we go into functional medicine and root cause medicine, and we're going down all of these little rabbit holes trying to figure out, you know, what, what toxin, what infection, what, you know, what, whatever it is, right? What, what past trauma is kind of keeping things in place. If we work on the fundamentals of food is medicine, restorative sleep and vagal nerve regulation. So many of those other things that are kind of off with your immune system or your inflammatory response, your mitochondrial response, your mast cell activation, a lot of those will improve. And so you have less to, to work on. Now when it comes to the vagus nerve, the. One of the things that I look at in terms of the vagus nerve is really for children. I mean, we know kids and adults were just way too often in the sympathetic, you know, fight or flight, fight, flight or freeze mode. And our, the, our autonomic nervous system, the counterbalance part, the parasympathetic, doesn't get enough time, doesn't get enough exercise throughout the day. And so there was one research paper, there's a German cardiologist who, you know, has been following heart rate variabilities in kids since, since the 90s and has found that, you know, from, from the 1990s, which is not that long ago until recently. Right. I mean, it doesn't feel that long ago to me. But, but, but children's heart rate variabilities have significantly decreased over the decades. We also see, you know, what's in, what's very interesting is, um, we know our microbiomes have changed as we've gotten older, you know, over, over the decades, even over the centuries. And you know, we have evidence that infants microbiomes have significantly changed even over the past century. Um, there was a pathologist in Scotland of all places 100 years ago who was analyzing baby poop, right? Newborn poop. Um, it's so great, right, that, that there's a microbiologist, a pathologist who thought to do that. And he compared the microbiomes of babies who were exclusively formula fed and the babies who were formula fed. Because even back then there were some babies who just, you know, couldn't, couldn't breastfeed for whatever reason and found that the babies who were exclusively Breastfed had nearly 100% bifidobacteria. Nearly 100%. Not a lot of diversity. We didn't want a lot of diversity. And in the formula fed babies there was more of a mix of flora. And so fast forward now, the microbiomes of exclusively breastfed babies look more like the formula fed babies of a hundred years ago. So even exclusively breastfed babies are going to have more, less bifidobacteria. And we're seeing this loss of bifidobacteria corresponding with a loss of immune tolerance. We need Bifidobacterium infantis to really help with communicating with your baby's developing immune system to tolerate the foods that they're eating so that they're not developing anaphylactic allergies left and right. Well, guess what? Anaphylactic allergies right now are significantly on the rise. You know, 1 in 12 kids now. And when you were not and I were in residency, I mean, how many times did you ever prescribe an EpiPen for a kiddo, right? So, and there's this intimate connection between the gut microbiome and the vagus nerve. And um, there was one paper that really looked at, I mean, of course it's a bidirectional, you know, communication, but simply by improving your heart rate variability, by working on your vagus nerve function and optimization, that could improve children's microbiome diversity and function. And that was independent of diet. So for a lot of families where, you know, we're trying to work on their microbiomes and you know, and there's super, super picky eaters or maybe they're, you know, eating a, a highly processed diet and it's challenging to switch just yet. We're working on that, but it's a work in progress. Then working on the vagus nerve with, you know, breath work or with, with emotional freedom technique tapping or cognitive behavioral tools. You know, vagus nerve devices can be so impactful. And when you think about it, you know, how I explain the vagus nerve to families, kids and you know, kids and teens. Because a lot of times when I start talking about meditation or walking in nature, you get the eye roll, right? Or if they're not, if they're not giving me the eye roll, it's a, it's, it's a silent eye roll they're doing in their minds.

Right.

And so because it's also something a lot of kids that nowadays have a socio emotional learning class maybe in elementary school where they're doing some yoga or doing some meditation and it's a class that a lot of kids are like, oh yeah, that's the class I take a nap in. Right. It's just, it's not a priority. So what I let them know is when we start regulating your vagus nerve, when we teach your brain and body to learn how to kick in your vagus nerve throughout the day it feeling calm and good and happy. That's great. But that's really kind of a beneficial side effect of that. For me, the real reason to engage your vagus nerve and prioritize vagus nerve optimization is because that alone will first of all improve your gut microbiome. It reduces chronic inflammation, it balances blood sugar, it's going to regulate your hormones. I mean all the things that we may be working on, a kiddo who's a teenager who's coming in with, with you know, pcos or a child who's coming in with really bad eczema or asthma. Well, working on the vagus nerve is going to have the impact of starting to regulate your other organ systems. So for me it really is a priority and I, and I want to take it out of the realm of oh, it's something that to do when, when we have time or that's a nice thing to do, you know, at bedtime. But I'm not going to prioritize it during the day.

Yeah, that's something. Go back to something you said before is really interesting because in, when I was doing some of my GYN training stuff, I remember reading an article about the microbiome in women and this is, this is revolving more around pregnancy and the whole group B strep status. But I was looking at from the 60s, the 70s to 80s, every decade there's a change in the predominance of a female's microbiome. Males going from actually staph to strep. And it was interesting to see how that's actually changing. And the female's microbiome sets up the baby coated in it from the vaginal wall. Typically, the last trimester of pregnancy, females will have more pervotella actually growing in their vaginal area to give that. But if their gut microbiome is starting up with a bunch of gbs, which I don't know about you, but when I do my stool testing on patients, I feel like everybody, half the people have group B strep, you know, in their, in their stool. And it's like, you know, it's the little aha moment maybe, is that the microbiomes, there's, there's a generational component to the microbiome where mothers are passing on to their kids and then going forward, because we know from the literature that, you know, the, the egg for the baby is in the ovary, the mom, when she's in the uterus of her grandmother. Right.

I know, it's fascinating.

Yeah. So maybe, maybe it's not just that epigenetic phenomena, but also there's a, there's a microbiome, a trans. Generational microbiome component that, you know, we can. Knowing that I think is helpful because maybe we can unwire it through our diet and lifestyle and a bunch of environmental factors now realizing that that will have benefits with children and grandchildren down. Down the road.

I mean, absolutely. And what's fascinating is there's even now some newer research this year looking at, I mean, this was an animal study, but it took. Took mice and altered their micro male mice and caused gut dysbiosis in these male mice before conception. Right. And so, and then what, what was found was that the, the mice born to the dis, conceived from the dysbiotic male mice, those babies. Right. Those pups. Those mice. Pups had significantly worse fetal outcomes, restricted growth, even early mortality in post. Postpartum. And so, and then that was corrected. If the, the male mice had dysbiosis, but then were corrected with probiotic supplementation before conception, that difference went away. So even, even male, the, the paternal microbiome before birth makes a difference. And, and there was one. I mean, this is an older paper now looking at the grandfather's microbiome, and even that shift could cause transgenerational changes that persisted in maternal microbiomes even for two generations. And so it's, I mean, we're, it's, it's so fascinating because, you know, we, we, of course, there's been so much focus on the maternal microbiome, vaginal and stool microbiome, a gut microbiome, and how that impacts babies and, you know, their Mode of birth and the microbiome that babies have starting from birth. But now we also have to shift gears and think, okay, how do we optimize mom's and dad's microbiomes before conception? That would be so ideal.

Yeah. So how, what, what, how do we, how does someone go about that? I hear what you're saying, great concept. But how does a couple, you know, how do they start changing their gut microbiome, changing their gut health with the economy because you know, moms will be with two months before they, you know, they, I'm six weeks pregnant and what should I do now you start your prenatal, sometimes you'll get one year, three or four months before they want to starving children. You know, do some testing. You know, how do we get people years before you know, to start thinking about future generations health. Like what are some, if you had named two or three things they can start doing now that have an impact, what would you say those things are?

I would say the two things that they can do. Because we know now even, even with a disruptive microbiome from, from years and years and years of antibiotic use, I mean it takes a little longer to shift, but food makes a big difference. And so getting in the right nutrients so you have to get in more plant based foods. I mean the vast majority of people are not getting enough fiber or phytonutrients. So just, just working on that, crowding out some of the not such great foods. I mean in the book I talk about microbiome champions and those are your three, so I call them the three Fs, fiber, phytonutrients, which is, it's a ph, but it sounds like an F and fermented foods. So we prioritize those because we know that, you know, in the American Gut project, the, the dividing line really between a healthier gut microbiome and one that was a little bit less Advantageous was really 30 different plants per week. So and that can include spices. It's not just fruits and vegetables, it's whole grains, it's legumes, it's nuts and seeds. But your, your beneficial bacteria need plant based foods to grow and thrive and colonize and to produce all of those what are called postbiotics for the listeners, these fermentation products that are what we need to survive and thrive. So things like short chain fatty acids like butyrate, our microbiome makes the vast majority of our B vitamins, B12, folate, B6, many of our neurotransmitters Like GABA and serotonin are considered postbiotics. So if we don't have the right food to feed those beneficial bacteria, we're not gonna have the right nutrients to serve our brains or bodies and our immune systems. So that's one thing. The second thing that I think is so, so, so important is really learning what to really keep out of your diet. And the two things that I want parents and kids, you know, to be really, really mindful of. And in, you know, in the book I talk about microbiome mischief makers. You know, how do we read labels? Like a really, really savvy, savvy gut hero. You know, all to really preserve our microbiome. Well the one is going to be, you know, all, all of those FDA approved food additives that wreak havoc on your microbiome. So you know, many people are now aware of artificial colors that's you know, for, for children's brains, not going to be optimal. But there are this category of food additives called emulsifiers that are in many, many different foods that are, are shown to directly trigger zonulin release. So that means trigger, trigger leaky gut. They can trigger dysbiosis. In, in I think in Japan the, you can see the graphs. The rise of emulsifier use in the packaged foods mirrors the rise in autoimmunity in the population. It's not a cause or effect thing but there's certainly I believe a correlation there. And so, but packages aren't going to say you know, emulsifier, they're going to say things like mono and diglycerides, carrageenan, xanthan gum. So you have to know what to look for and then don't buy. And they're going to be in some of the foods that we wouldn't even think to look in. Like protein bars can have emulsifiers, you know, ice cream, your ketchups, your barbecue sauces, you know, dressings. So just really reading the labels and then the second thing to look out for in the label which a lot of families that in my practice now they look and they see, okay, if there's like a 50 long ingredient list and it says artificial something or it has all of these odd sounding, you know, chemical names, they put it back, they know to do that. But what they're not necessarily looking at in an organic, you know, whole food package is how much added sugar is in there. And that is a huge, huge problem. You know, kids really, you know, should, 2 to 18 year olds should have no more than about 25 grams of added sugar a day, which is the equivalent of about six teaspoons of added sugar. Because, I mean, who, who really is putting that in mind of, you know, 25 grams is just nebulous. What does that mean? Right, so, so six teaspoons, six cubes of sugar, the average adult nowadays has about 19 teaspoons of added sugar in a day, right? I mean, do you wanna guess how much the average teenager has?

Well, if you think about soda and pop consumption, I'm probably thinking between 20 and 30.

Yeah, 34 teaspoons. 34. And that's, you know, and think about how many adults, you know, on their way to work and they have their morning frappuccino, right? Or, you know, after work, hanging out with friends, you, you know, having a boba tea. So, I mean, it's really, it's insidious. But I, but the, the disruption to the gut brain connection from all of these added sugars and your immune system for that matter, is really significant. So I feel, I think for parents, if they're going to work on, on anything to support their microbiome, it's going to be that, that's going to be way more important than any probiotic supplement that you take. You know, you can, you can pile in, you know, the, whatever trillions of colonies of probiotics you want to. But if you're, if your microbiome is not the ecosystem where those, those probiotics want to stay and call their home, it doesn't matter what you throw in. I mean, you need a fertile ground for them to survive.

So it sounds like, you know, food's a big deal, fermented foods, colors. Okay, yeah, you did mention the vagal nerve stuff. I want to just circle back around that because you did briefly mention like, tapping and, you know, a few things. What are a few basic techniques? Breathwork. You did mention tapping that people can use because the one word you use, dysregulated. That's such a, that struck a tone, a chord with me because that's what we see. So many of our kids are dysregulated. You know, and so what are a couple of things people can do to help, you know, reregulate this dysregulation.

So breath is one of our most powerful tools for that. You know, when, when I talk to kids about, you know, what we, what, what we can do to regulate our vagus nerve. Well, we can't that the autonomic nervous system, it's pretty automatic, right. We don't really have a lot of control over it. You know, when we have an exam coming up and, you know, all of a sudden our heart starts racing and our pupils are dilated. I mean, that's our body's just immediate response to what, what is a perceived threat. Right now in that moment, we can't tell our heart rate to slow down. You know, we can't force our pupils to, you know, to not dilate unless, you know, we shine a light. So then, then they'll constrict a little bit. But we can't voluntarily tell our, our body to change that physiologic response except with our breath. Our breath is the one thing that if we can control our breath and slow it down, fill our belly up our diaphragm up fully, you know, with. With air as we inhale and then exhale slowly, fully deflating our lungs and not breathing with our shoulders, that slowing your breath will then engage your vagus nerve, which will then slow down your heart rate, get your pupils to normalize in size, actually change the way that the hairs on your ear are kind of pointed because we become much more attuned to sounds, you know, when we're in that fight or flight state, right. We need to know, is there danger lurking behind me? And so just by slowing our breath down, we can, we can stop that physiologic stress response. And so, you know, that is the one thing that kids can do anywhere, anytime, for free and also not look different doing it, right? So, I mean, if they're sitting there freaking out before a soccer tournament, okay, they just sit on the bench. You just slow your breathing down, fill in your belly with that slow, deep breath. You can hold it at the top if you want and then exhale slowly and then hold it at the bottom. Nobody has to know what they're doing. Now, other tools, like tapping, where they use certain acupressure points and certain affirmations, you know, to really, you know, also has been found to improve heart rate variability. And so that, I mean, a lot of my kids love tapping because that's something more, more kinesthetic. It's not just sitting there. Oh like trying to meditate. They're actually just. They're doing something right. They're kind of, you know, tapping. And, and honestly, even if kids are not, don't necessarily think it's going to work. Just going through tapping, you know, using the tapping solution app. Or you can. There are. You can look up different, you know, tapping phrases for your kids, but just doing that with your kids will calm their Nervous system down, even if they don't believe it.

Yeah. Have you ever used a polyneuro for something like that?

Yes. So the devices. Because I'm also about, you know, how do we do things in a way that can be a little more passive for kids? Because sometimes when you're really in that fight or flight, it's hard to slow down your breath. I mean, think about as an adult if you're like, oh my gosh, I'm so stressed about this deadline and you're trying to slow down your breathing. It takes it's effort. And so for a lot of kids, just to engage your vagus nerve in that moment can be challenging. And also, you know, we have so much practice every day being in fight or flight constantly, you know, our body's constantly perceiving these threats and our mind is too, that, that, you know, many of us have forgotten what it feels like to be in that parasympathetic state. And so using the Apollo Neuro, I usually wear my Apollo Neuro. I actually misplaced it a couple of days ago. I'm like, where is it? But the Apollo Neuro, it's a device you wear on your wrist or your ankle. I prefer the wrist because the ankle looks like a security monitor. And I have actually one in my office that kids can use in the office or even borrow for a couple of days. But I love it and a lot of kids really, really like it because you can. And they can set it to different settings. My personal favorite one is the social one. And I think. And that does well for a lot of kids, even more than the calm, the calm parts, the calm program. Because for a lot of kids in school there are a lot of social anxieties and that social anxiety is what's causing some of the, you know, their fight or flight throughout the day. Um, and then I also, you know, have a Tru Vega that I've been using and that one more directly stimulates the vagus nerve. Now the Apollo has been shown to help, help with ADHD symptoms in kids. I love that they have a pediatric study. It's a very small study, but still, you know, it's something, I mean pediatric populations are some of the least, least studied and we need more studies, but and also very, very safe to use in kids. The Tru Vega, they don't necessarily say that it can be used in kids, but I know the founders use it for their own kids and I've used it. I mean, I would definitely want to talk with your physician about that, but, but The Tru Vega is more of a direct vagus nerve stimulator because you just hold it to your neck, the two metal probes and then you know right where the vagus nerve comes down and, and there's a vibration there. It's only a two minute session and they recommend two minutes twice a day, but you could do it more often. So the, so in that way, using a device like the Apollo or the Tru Vega, it helps kids get into that parasympathetic, know what it feels like. So that then when they don't have that external device and they're sitting in class now the value, the nice thing about the Apollo is you can wear it all the time. I mean they could wear it to class if they want to, but. But then they know and their brain has that memory of oh, okay, when I'm trying to slow down my breath, this is what it feels like to be in that state. Another tool I love is heart math. You know the heartmath, you know, with the, with the ear, ear probe that measures their heart rate and you can tell, you can just as you're just for the listeners, there's an app called Inner Balance and that goes along with the heart math. And you can set it to different pictures, but there's a rainbow flower that expands and you're supposed to inhale slowly with the flower and then exhale slowly as the flower shrinks. And so as you do that, you'll see a red, blue or green light at the top. And if it's a green light, you know, okay, you're in the parasympathetic. That's what a lot of people call I'm in the zone. I'm in a flow state. You know, I'm, I'm on a roll. I mean we all have had that experience. And so when you, when you say it like that people, I mean most people are like, oh yeah, I know that. I know like when I just feel on, like everything's just, just flowing. Well, that's parasympathetic and that's, you know, and it's something that high performance athletes will use that visualization and that, you know, slowing down and engaging. They're not necessarily calling it vagus nerve work, but that's exactly what they're doing, you know, creative writers and all of that. So, so I love putting it in the realm of look, this is not woo woo. This is like the top athletes and greatest thinkers in the world and gaze their vagus nerve and they, they've learned how to do it in a way that optimizes their performance and you can learn the same thing.

Yeah, and I think it's a, a good point. You said right there at the end that this is stuff that high level executives, high level athletes have been doing for years. Actually. Tom Brady types have been doing this stuff, visualizing plays, visualizing stuff, working on breath work, yoga, stretching. They've been doing like the elite people have been doing this holistic stuff for a lot, long before even the doctor we've been doing it. And so it's really interesting how it's taking a long time for quote unquote science to catch up with what some high level people have been doing already for quite some time. And so to transition from the gut stuff and vagal nerve stuff, which I feel like we could just talk. I wanted to start asking you questions about Truvega, but I don't want to. There's just so many really cool devices out there that can.

So many.

Yeah, I mean my, one of my.

Well, I'll tell you, the Truvega. Sorry, sorry to interrupt you, but the Truvega, their parent company, Electricore, created Gamma Core, which Gamma Core is FDA approved for migraines. And their Truvega now is the consumer version of it, so that you don't need a prescription, whereas a Gamma Core, you need a physician prescription.

So here's a question for you because I actually had used Gamma Core, some patients and stuff. It just was the hassle factor, to be honest with you. Like, is it Tru Vega, is it this? Is it similar in frequency and intensity to the, the, the Gamma Core? Or is it like half as potent? Or do you know specifically as far as that's concerned?

I don't know specifically, but I know you can, you can dial up or down the intensity. So when you put it on your neck, you can, you could put it to comfort, you can crank it all the way up. But, but from my understanding, it's not, it's not that more is necessary, better, but you can go from, you know, just a, a one vibration which is hardly noticeable all the way up, just depending on what, what you like. And it is, you know, there is, I hear you about the hassle factor because you're holding, you have to take it out, you have to find, you know, spray the gel and hold it to your neck. It's only two minutes. But still I, you know, I say that and I mean there's, there have even been days where I'm like, I don't have the two minutes right Now I'll do it later. Right. And, and you know, that's where the Apollo I think is great because you just put it on your wrist and you leave it. And then, you know, you can set it. If your kids love, you know, the calm or the social or the energy, whichever, whichever part of the program that they like, when you set it, all they have to do is push the buttons, the two buttons, and it turns on again once it's turned off. So they don't even need to have a phone connected to it. It's just set it and leave it and have them go off to school.

Yeah. It's kind of interesting how a lot of these technologies are just getting us to do what we know we need to do. And I'm referring more to the heart math because I got that and used it and it was really, really cool device. And it basically, if I do my breath work, my, I go into parasympathetic, it takes me like five minutes and it's like, okay, so I really needed to center myself probably three to four times a day for maybe 10 minutes. You know, I think the technologies and seeing that helps reinforce it to people. But ultimately it's these basic things that can be super, super powerful. And ultimately your breath, like you said in the very beginning, is at the center of all that stuff.

Yeah, yeah, it's, I mean, it's, we don't, you know, there are, of course, there are times where we have to really dive into the more complicated, you know, issues that are going on with our patients. But, but, but like we were saying, I mean, you start with the foundations and that and, and the foundations, many of those foundations like food and breath work and restorative sleep, there's no quote, rocket science there, but you have to do it, you have to put in the work. And that's, that's the thing. It's not, you can't, you know, take a supplement that all of a sudden is going to give you the same benefits as, you know, eating, you know, a, a fiber plant filled diet or, you know, you know, sitting there and doing the breath work and the mindfulness several times a day. And there's no pill that's gonna really mimic the power of getting a restorative, you know, eight, nine hours of sleep. So you gotta put in the work. I mean, that's, you know, but the, but then that work will, will, you know, reap so many rewards, you know, for years to come.

I think just to what you said, you know, supplements by definition are supposed to supplement and you know, you were talking about fiber. It was, it was interesting. I was reading articles talking about the human microbiome. We make about 30 to 50, close to 50 grams of butyrate a day with the appropriate fiber. But there's a supplement. You can buy a supplement of butyrate, which is 500 milligrams. So all of a sudden, yes, I've had great results. I've had people with chronic diarrhea get better taking their butyrate cal mag. It works really well. But it's like if you have a really healthy microbiome, eating a fiber like those two capsules three times a day are still like not even quite 10% compared to what your gut would make if it's eating fermented foods and getting enough fibers. Ultimately the supplement, supplement, you gotta do the hard work, which is the lifestyle stuff.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. But then as we do that for, for us and we model it to our kids and our teens, I mean, because that's, that's what we need, right? We need our teens to when, when they're ready to, you know, fly, you know, fly from the nest and when we need them to have those life skills for themselves.

And that's what's going to keep them healthy long term. That's what's going to keep them, you know, between the three of my kids they've had, since we've had them, we adopted all of our kids. They've had two antibiotics between all three of them since we had them. And one's 18, 17 and 13 now. And so that's largely diet, exercise, environment, getting active, they did adequate sleep, you know, all those super basic things. And it's preventing us from using tons of antibiotics. You know, it's, it's really, really big intervention. I really, I don't want to, I want to respect your time. I want to. As we're coming to a close, I really super appreciate what you've shared with us. What if people know about, more about you, more about what you're doing? Because you're doing some really, really cool things. More about your book. Where can people learn more about you and find out, um, more cool stuff about pediatric holistic health care?

Yeah. So, so my website is healthykidshappykids.com I'm most active on Instagram. So my Instagram is healthykidshappykids. And my book, it's called Healthy Kids, Happy Kids An Integrated Pediatrician's Guide to Whole Child Resilience. And that's available pretty much anywhere. Books are sold. I mean, of course, Amazon, but Barnes and Noble, Walmart, Costco. Support your indie bookstores if you have. I'm hearing from, you know, all sorts of friends, family, patients around the country, you know, that they're, that they're in small bookstores and saying, look, your book is here. So I love that. I love supporting the small stores.

Yeah. We'll put the, those resources on below where this is being put up. So thank you so much for your time. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. Super helpful. And at that, thank you much again, hopefully that was helpful. Everybody out there, and we will talk everybody next time.