Episode 110: Your Message Matters with Jonathan Milligan

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Jonathan Milligan, welcome to the Club Capital Leadership Podcast.

Hey, thanks for having me.

Excited to have you. Enjoyed the conversation you and I had before we hit record. So we always start with background and origin story, and in reading your book, which we'll certainly get to, uh, I think you have a really great, uh, story. Why don't you share that with our listeners?

So I basically, I grew up in a home of teachers. My dad was a high school teacher and basketball coach. Mom was an elementary teacher. And as I grew up, I thought maybe that's where I'm going to be heading. So not only that, but when I was in college studying to be a teacher, I married an elementary teacher. So I felt like teaching was in my blood. But after about 3 years of teaching, I realized I love the kids. I love to teach, did not like the structure, did not like the environment. I'm much more— had an entrepreneurial spirit. I wanted to get out there and I wanted to do something bigger. And so I went on a journey. And as most entrepreneurs do, it's a lot of trying things, trying to figure out what you fit into, what fits you. And, you know, it was a, it was a struggle to figure out what I want to do. Did a little bit of real estate investing, made a little bit of money, decided I didn't want to do that. That was not my thing, even though I made money. Joined a startup firm for executive search, did that for a few years. Finally, I found my thing. Took me about 6 or 7 years to get there. But it started with blogging, of all things, which is actually crazy when you think about it, because when I was in college, blogging wasn't even around. So it's like I couldn't even, even studied for what I ultimately ended up doing. And that little blog started to become something as I started figuring out a way to share my message and put it out there. And within about 2, 2 and a half years, it was a career coach blog originally for accounting professionals, and built it up enough to where I could step away from the day job that I was doing, and just do that full time. And then I started having people ask me, well, how did you do that? How did you take something you knew, some some experience that you had, and turn that into like digital products and, and be able to build a list and create income. And that's when I decided, I want to teach that I want to teach people how to do that. So that's what brought me up to where we are today.

I love it. It's fairly similar to this podcast. I remember when I went to the team and said, I want to start a podcast. I was a podcast listener. I love listening to podcasts. Still do. And I thought, man, that would be really cool to have a— I had no idea how to do one. I didn't even know the very first couple were actually recorded on GarageBand. And not even, not even Zoom because I was in person. But anyway, it's amazing how things have just evolved over time. Which leads me to my first question. It's really around this idea. I mean, if you listen to podcasts, you read any books for any period of time, they're going to talk about like, just find your passion.

Just find your passion.

And nobody ever says what that means, like how to, or let alone how to actually do that. Okay, how to do that. So I know you have some really strong thoughts. And I think you do a really nice job of defining what you, when people say passion, so you just speak to that.

This came from my own experience. Because, you know, growing up, kids, especially for me growing up in a Christian home, it's like, you know, what's God's will for my life? That's even sometimes heavier. And then it was, well, then what's your passion? What are you passionate about? Well, I'm passionate about a lot of things. I don't know. And so, you know, that process of like, one day I realized passion doesn't need to equal pressure. It doesn't need to be this pressured thing. What if we have lots of different passions in our life? And that is when I came to this conclusion that it's okay if my passions change. But my purpose— and this is something that I learned along the way— was I kept trying to find my thing, my calling, my purpose in something out there. It was in a title, it was in a company, it was in a job, it was in an occupation. And then finally, I realized one day, long story, from an old book that's out of print now called Acres of Diamonds, that what I'm searching for might be right under my nose all along. And what if I started the process by looking inward first? And if I looked inward, and I realized, well, how do I show up best for others? Because all of us have our own unique ways, unique personalities, unique views of the world. And if I could identify what that was, then when it came to the passion thing, it's a matter of me applying who I am and connecting that to what I'm passionate about. But specifically, I just determined that passion, the way I like to define it, is it's really about what problem are you passionate about solving for the next 2 to 5 years. So in an entrepreneurial business context, that's how I view passion. What problem are you passionate about solving for the next 2 to 5 years? And if you start there, things will, you know, your passions will change. And what I often say is passions change, but your purpose remains. Like, my purpose being a teacher, which is really my purpose, is being a practical teacher. That practical teacher has played out, yes, in the classroom, but also played out on my accounting blog. Then it began to play out in me talking about blogging. And then today I podcast, I do YouTube videos, livestream. And I don't know what I'm going to be doing 5 years from now. But I know the best way for me to show up for others is to be a practical teacher.

Yeah.

And so that is— that helps me, it settles me to see, to know, I'm my purpose, who I actually am, the way I show up is never going to change. My passions will, and that's okay.

I love that so much. Because even you just giving so many people, myself included, the permission to say, hey, your passion is going to change over time. Because I can think— I mean, you can say I'm wearing a golf shirt. Most of our listeners know I love to play golf. There was a bit of time when I had my first business. I mean, I was playing a lot of golf, and I was passionate about it. And I was watching every YouTube video about TrackMan and all these real geeky things. And that was my passion. I don't think that that was necessarily something I was going to turn into an entrepreneurial type endeavor at the time. But I was like, almost, my wife would tell you, obsessed about it a little too much. And I probably was, probably was. But, and so now my passion is everything around, like right now, I'm super passionate learning and understanding around marketing. You and I just had a conversation about that before we, before we, and I'm just into that, you know, But purpose, I love to learn, I love to document, and I love to share. Learn, document, share. Like, that I feel like is, is, is my purpose. And so I think whenever you were like saying, hey, sometimes it can feel so big that it's outward that people just almost get stuck.

Absolutely. Yeah, they absolutely do. And so we got to bring it back down, like just the next 2 to 5 years. Right? Because if we can focus there, like, think about my own journey online. I mean, I went from— I stopped being passionate about helping accountants in their career, and I became more passionate about helping people blog and get their message heard. Well, then podcasting came along, and then videos, and then like, it's continued to evolve. And so even today, my brand is Market Your Message. I talk about blogging, but I used to only talk about blogging. Yeah, my passions have changed, but how I show up for others stays the same.

In your book, Your Message Matters, you talk about really the 3 Ps. Can you just kind of unpack the 3 Ps for us? So for somebody hearing this and saying, okay, like, I— that, that makes sense to me, I get that. Now, how do I actually go about defining that, let alone marketing it, etc.?

So I call this the Ignite Your Message framework because oftentimes people— what's my message? What is it? What am I doing? Like, what is my audience? And the way that I've been able to teach it is it comes down to 3 Ps. We've already talked about 2 of them. It's purpose, passion, and the last one's people. So purpose is what is your unique gift? How do you show up best for others, right? And then people is who do you want to help? You can't help everyone. And when I first started my very first blog, it was actually a career and life coach. I wanted to like help people in their career and life. After about 3 months, I had a mentor tell me, you got to drill down, you got to get specific. So I was like, okay, accounting. And as soon as I shifted to be the CPA career coach, Now accountants were suddenly paying attention because they weren't looking for a generalized coach. They wanted a coach that understood accounting careers. And that made a big positional difference for me. So you got to be— get specific on the people part. And then finally is the passion, which is what problem are you going to help them solve? And when you know how you show up best, the people you want to help, and the problem you're helping them solve, it sounds so simple, but we never take the time to get that crystal clear clarity on those 3 things. Once you know that, it also informs you all the stuff you're not going to do. Yeah, which is also powerful.

If I'm— if I start to get clear on like who I want to be able to serve, say I'm really into fitness, let's just use that as an example. And maybe oftentimes, just as you have done, your mess becomes your message, right? So how you— or, or maybe not even your mess, but like what you saw for yourself, you're now sharing with other people. So let's say say somebody has, you know, lost a lot of weight, they really got fit, and so now they're going to share with— share this with other people. You've mentioned this a couple times, and for you, your framework. Okay, so how does somebody begin to kind of unpack the concepts and the beliefs and begin to put it into some sort of a framework? Because some people just don't even know where to begin with that. They realize that other people have that, but they're not sure exactly how to do it.

So what I've seen is we often discount our own experience and what people find is valuable. That's why, you know, in the book, the first thing I talk about is believing your message, because it's got to start there. If you don't believe that you have value to share— easiest way to explain it is a friend of mine always says this, and I think it's just an awesome quote. He says, what's ordinary to you is magic to others. And, you know, some of the stuff that we often think is ordinary about us is really magical to others. And so you have to get other people to, to help you with that. Because just like another saying you've probably heard, you can't read the label when you're inside the bottle. You have to have outside perspective of, of your own unique situation. So I think that's kind of part one is you got to really believe that you do have value, you do have a message, you do have some advice that people will pay you for. So that's part one. And then, then we get into actually nailing it down on the discovering your message part. And then the next part is really that part that a lot of people struggle with, with, which is the marketing of the message. How do I actually get noticed, get heard, get paid? Yeah. That's the hard part that people struggle with.

Yeah, you and I were talking about this earlier, is that once you kind of begin to go down this path, there's so many good ideas, you can't implement all of them. You just can't. And I think that's true just in general in business. You know, well, should I do this? And then you hear, you hear somebody on a podcast, or you read a book that literally tells you to do the opposite thing. To do the opposite thing. Well, which one's right? Well, they're both right in context to your situation. So I think it's like, which one is the thing to— for me to do? What's the next right thing?

So what—

how do you— do we begin to kind of figure out, okay, well, what is the right path for me to take?

So we don't suffer from a lack of options. Yeah, we suffer from too many. Yeah. And that is our big enemy. That's all of our enemies, because there's too many options today. I mean, even when I first started, podcasting was not really a thing. It was out there, but it was a lot of, you know, really, really smart audio technicians who knew how to do it. It wasn't out there, you know. YouTube, you could only upload videos and it took forever to upload. Like, all that wasn't around. Now it's just like we have so many options, it's crazy. And so One of the things that, um, this is something I'm really passionate about in our group coaching program.

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One of the things that, um, this is something I'm really passionate about in our, uh, group coaching program. We call this our DTN. And it simply stands for Do This Next. And in our mastermind calls, we're always like, what is your Do This Next? Now, we try to clearly lay that out in a roadmap. But, and actually, it's funny, you know, as I'm talking about this, I've got a card game that I've created that's called Do This Next. And I'm introducing it at our live event and they don't even know about it yet. So nobody— it's kind of a secret. So first time I'm actually talking about this card game.

Hey, hey, hey.

All right. What this, what this Do This Next card game is, is the goal is for you to eliminate your options down to 2. And those are the 2 things. One of them is your offer. And the way that you're going to market it. And so when you get that clear, it makes— I've heard Benjamin Hardy talk about this in his book. He said that success is not complicated. That doesn't mean it's easy, but it's simple. Success is about going 10 steps in one direction. Yeah. Where most people go one step in 10 directions.

Yes.

It's the same amount of energy. But one, you're actually making progress. And I think that is what people need. So the short part of it in my world is we have something called validate, then activate, then monetize. The validate is how quickly can you validate this idea? And by validating, it's not just people like it, but people actually paid some money for it. Uh, just to give you a real quick example to make this practical, uh, a lady in our, in our group coaching program, she suffers from chronic pain, but she's got the best personality. She's a super positive person. People are like, how do you, how are you so positive all the time when you are constantly in pain physically? And so she decided she wanted to, that was her message. That's what she was supposed to get out there, but she could never get any traction. So we, we told her, hey, let's start a Facebook group, a private Facebook group. People put in their email address, they join your private Facebook group. And then I want you to run a 3-day challenge. And you're going to go live for 3 days, and you're gonna teach people how to come up with affirmations, your morning affirmations, to have a positive mindset for the day. And then at the end of those 3 days, offer a 1-day workshop on Zoom, where for you know, they pay for it. But for 2 to 4 hours, you're going to teach them more of what you know. And at the end of that, she had no audience, okay, she got about 300 people in her group. It was called Chronically Happy, I think was the name of the Facebook group. She did her challenge. And then she had, I think, 15 people pay $100. So $1,500. It's not enough to like quit your day job yet. But $1,500, she's like, my message is validated. Like, people will pay money to solve this problem. And they want me to help them. So that's a kind of an easy practical step. I'm always looking for how can we shortcut it down to its very simplest parts. And that's what worked for her is Facebook group engagement, conversion for— she actually ended up selling something she hadn't even created. That's another big thing is oftentimes we want to go create that online course, takes us months to do our membership site to do, only to find out nobody wants it. Uh, that helps shortcut all of that.

As, as an example, what is such a good example?

I'm glad that you brought something from high level down to eye level for us to give us an example of it. You know, Dan Sullivan, he, he has the quote, always test ideas out on checkwriters. So she did test ideas out on checkwriters, and she is exactly what she did.

All right.

So, but I have a, I have a kind of something I'd like for you to tell me about, because there's one aspect of that that I think is important that we recognize. So we choose our offer. So we have our pro— whether it's a challenge or she has a program, et cetera, and we choose the path to market it. And so we start doing it and it's not working.

Yeah.

And so then we give up and we say, we got to change something. That's not working. So we'll go do something else. I'm going to do a weekly webinar. And they do 2 weekly— 2 webinars. And they go, never mind, that didn't work. Okay, so now we're gonna run Facebook ads. Nope, that doesn't work either. And then you see where I'm going with this, like, yes. So now that said, though, there is an art to realizing, okay, actually, that market, that, that was not the vehicle to do. There is a time to not throw good time and good money after bad. So I want to be clear that I do believe that that makes sense. But how do we find that balance to really be able to say, I've gotten enough data, I've gotten enough time to realize that this is working, or this is not working? You see what I'm saying?

Let's, let's stick to itiveness.

Absolutely. And what I have found is more often than not, at least the people I've been working with for the last few years, is they stop too soon, just quit way too soon. Either they get excited about something else, the shiny object syndrome, they just, they don't give it a chance. It's like Jim Rohn used to say, is people often plant in the spring, they water in the summer, only to give up before the harvest. And I think you gotta be careful of, of giving up too soon. The way that I say it is, especially when you're just starting out, you need to measure your actions, not just your results. There is a time to measure the results and decide if I need to pivot. But what happens is we just dabble, we don't get a result. And then we think, oh, that'll never work when we've actually not really given it a shot.

Yeah.

That, that's one part of it is you have to, you have to become a farmer. So if a farmer were to, let's say, a brand new farmer purchased a field, he was excited. The first day he got out there, he plowed his field, he planted a seed, he went to bed all excited. He woke up the next morning, ran over to the window, pulled open the curtains. It's like, I knew I couldn't do this farming thing. There's no, there's no crop out there. Yeah, we would think that was the most ridiculous thing in the world, right? Because, you know, It takes time to get to the harvest. But yet we treat sometimes our businesses the same way, is we don't give it time to develop. Now, that being said, there is a time to learn. And instead of just pivoting, we need to actually learn. So let's use that example I just talked about, of the lady who created the Facebook group. Let's say she, she sold nothing. I would have her do a survey and find out, hey, I'm curious, you know, you didn't buy. I'm just wondering what, what made you not want to invest in this workshop at this time? Get that critical feedback and find out what maybe you didn't cover in the challenge. You know, is this a viable offer? It's almost like you have to launch, then learn. You can't learn until you actually launch. You have to launch, get data back to actually make a decision. But if you're making decisions without data, you're not going to make a good decision.

That is so true. If you want to be, do. If you want to be, do. Like, I agree with that. I mean, we're talking about, you know, there's a saying, ideas are everywhere, implementation is everything. I mean, you're not going to know until you actually do. So I am really big with our clients about you as the business owner have to take time to think about the business. It's the most important thing you can do. For your business is take time to think about the business. And so I have a client, been with a client of mine for over a year and a half. Okay. This morning, I'm not, I'm not kidding. This morning is the first time he actually went and did a true thinking time session. He sends me like a 4-minute Voxer and says, man, that was really great. I came out with so much clarity. And so many things of exactly what I know I need to do. And I thought, well, happy dadgum, how about that? You know, you know, like instead of going and like thinking he's doing it, he finally did it the way that he— and I said, can you please send that message to our group so that other people would hear that? Because he didn't learn by just hearing, or he learned by doing the thing. And that means everything.

Absolutely. I've heard Brendon Burchard— I don't know if it's his quote, but he says it often— that common sense isn't common practice. And we oftentimes need to not overlook the simple things because they could be the— they could be the big things.

Yeah, yeah, no doubt. All right, last thing I want to ask you is, okay, so we picked the channel, we, we begin to kind of establish what the framework is, we've got the offer, we've got the— we begin to find that path for market. Where do we go from there? I mean, you talk about just living out the message. Share a little bit more about that.

This is important to me, because at the end of the day, you know, if you're, if you're a messenger, that means you're, you're a writer, speaker, teacher, coach, you have a message, a transformational message to share, then people are going to connect with you for, you know, to you personally, You are a personal brand in a sense. That doesn't mean you have to do everything. Yeah, this is really important. And so I wanted to make sure that I spent a whole section on this to talk about how we connect people to us and our message. So there's 3 primary ways. I call it encouraging hearts, encouraging heads, and empowering hands. So encouraging hearts, this is moving people from discouragement to hope. That is a responsibility of us as a messenger, is we have to realize that our audience oftentimes is living in discouragement. What can we do to provide that hope? Educating heads, that's where you move people from doubt to confidence. They need the confidence, and sometimes they have to borrow your confidence as a coach or a mentor in order to do that sort of thing. That is how we can also live our message is through helping people from that doubt to confidence. And then lastly is empowering hands, just like you were talking about with your client, we got to help them move from delay to action. I want you to actually go do this thing, just trust me, just do it. And really helping them empower. So it's like, when you've, when you've won over somebody's heart, you've won their head, and there you got them doing something. That's when you're going to have success stories. And those success stories are going to bring more clients. And so that's how you live your message day to day, is you're just constantly helping people with the heart, the head, and the hands.

I love it. Jonathan, I know people are going to want to connect with you. And they're going to want to find out more about the book. Where would you point them to so that they can reach out, pick up the book, etc.?

Absolutely. So it's available in bookstores, but we actually made this available for free, just pay for shipping, by going to yourmessagebook.com. So yourmessagebook.com, you get a free copy, we'll ship one out to you, and, uh, hope it's a help to you.

Awesome, Jonathan, it's been great having you on, and when you write your next book, we're gonna have you back on.

Okay, sounds good.

Okay, Ali, this is the intro and the outro to the Jonathan Milligan podcast. Welcome to another episode of the Club Capital Leadership Podcast.

My name is Bradley Hemner, your host.

On today's episode, we have Jonathan Milligan. Jonathan, he's an author of Your Message Matters. Oh man, Ali, let me do that again. Welcome to another episode of the Club Capital Leadership Podcast. My name is Bradley Hamner, your host. On today's episode, we have Jonathan Milligan. He's the author of Your Message Matters: How to Rise Above the Noise and Get Paid for What You Know. Jonathan, he's a blogger, speaker, and online business coach. He spent the last decade guiding and directing creative professionals on how to pursue their meaningful work. He teaches today how to be able to build a business with their passion, story, and message. He lives in Jacksonville, Florida. I really enjoyed this conversation with, uh, Jonathan. We have a lot in common, and we had a really great chat before we pressed record. I think you're going to get a ton out of this. And so if you've felt like you've ever wanted to be able to get your passion and your purpose out and be able to tell your story, I think you're going to get a lot out of his message. Without further ado, here's my conversation with Jonathan. Mulligan. Now I have to tell you, Jonathan sent me his book before we recorded the episode, and I read, read it, and I think it's fantastic. And so if you have had a passion or a purpose that you feel like has been inside of you, but you've not been able to express that, um, go to his book, pick up his book, um, yourmessagebook.com. I think you'll get a ton out of it, I really do. You know, I think whenever he was talking about the card game and he said, hey, it's two things, you know, it's offer and it's, uh, and it's market. And whenever he was sharing that, I think one of the biggest things that stood out to me is whenever just the idea of like having to choose, narrowing it down, keeping it simple. Now I think we had a really good discussion around How do you actually keep that going so that you give it enough time? Because he said most people quit too early, and I totally agree with that. I think the second thing is, uh, what kind of along with that, just the do this next. What's your do this next? We— I call it the next right thing. What's the next right thing? And so often we want to be— make that not just one thing, want to make it 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. I mean, look at your to-do list right now. It has a lot of things on there. Um, not what your not-to-do list is, and actually choosing. I also like the validate, activate, and monetize whenever he shared that with us. But ultimately, just the igniting, the 3 Ps— the purpose, the passion, and the people. And it goes back to you have to believe it first. Like, you have to believe in your message and how to be able to get that out. You know, maybe not how to get it out, but you got to believe in your message more than anything else, and then you can get into creating a framework and then how to actually get it out, how to be able to market that. Loved having Jonathan on, uh, just a super really great guy. Go to yourmessagebook.com. Love to be able to have Jonathan on whenever he writes another book in the future. A big shout out to our sponsors of this podcast, DirectClicks, Coach P, and Club Capital. Just whenever we're talking about marketing and getting out your message, that's exactly what DirectClicks has happened you to be able to do, is to market your business, being able to have a profile online so that they can find your agency, and then utilization of Google pay-per-click. I was just reading a message, uh, sent from me the other day about the importance of SEO and being able to have SEO and paid search together for people to be able to find you. So, you know, you need to get it out. More than likely, if you don't know the numbers of your current provider, or if you're not using someone, certainly I think at this point you realize that you need to have an online presence. And so if you're not— if you don't know the results that you're getting from the company you're working with right now, or if your results are terrible, Make sure you reach out to Direct Clicks. Go to directclicksinc.com. Lately I've just continued to share case studies and testimonials from people who've gotten a ton of success working with David Peterson, Coach P. One of them says, we've had our best blank month ever for life insurance, ever, exclamation mark. We finished with 32 policies, 25 this week, and over $7,000 Premium. You can be next. Go to coachpconsulting.com. Make sure you mention that you heard about him on the Club Capital podcast and you'll get your first month off. What do you got to lose? Get an entire first month off and test drive it and see how it is for you. That's why over— gosh, I don't even know how many people he's at right now. If I said it, then I'd probably be many, many, many people behind of how many people have been able to work with Coach P and gotten results, and they're staying. People are not just signing up and then being on there for a month. They're staying because they're getting a ton of value. Go to CoachBConsulting.com. I will speak to some of you who maybe you've been able to get numbers before. Maybe you're getting financial numbers. But have you ever thought about having a CFO? I mean, a chief financial officer. I mean, it costs you well over $100,000. To have a chief financial officer for your agency. And there's something that you just wouldn't— I mean, you'd have to be really, really big, really big, before you would ever have somebody like that. What if I could tell you could do it right now with Club Capital? Club Capital has just not long ago launched their CFO services. If you don't know exactly what all that would entail, just pick up the phone or go online, go to club.capital. And reach out to somebody on the team, book a demo, and have a conversation with them. You will be blown away at this next level in analytics and financials that they're able to share with you. You know, if you want to be able to operate like a big business but not have to have the financials, that the cash flow to be able to pay for a chief financial officer, you would be amazed at the new services that they've been able to launch. The end, the the details that you can see now, that's beyond anything that is out there, will really blow your mind. And so for those of you that really want to dive into the numbers and really want to maximize your profits so you can take home more money— yeah, that's right, I said it— you take home more money. At the end of the day, I'm gonna give you a book that you need to read. It's called Atlas Shrugged. Recommended to me.

It's a huge book.

It's gonna take you a long time to get through it. I'd recommend you buy it on Audible. The point is, is that at the end of the day, if they take away the reward for entrepreneurs and small business owners, then what's the point of making the risk? And at the end of the day, the reward comes in a lot of different forms. One of it is profit, and you making more money, you taking home more money. You want your team to take home more money, but you need to be able to take home more money too. You're the one that risk starting your business and starting your entrepreneurial career. So one of the ways to do that is to know your numbers. It's just not enough to have an excuse to why you don't know your financial numbers and use those to be able to make better decisions, hire more people so you can grow. You owe it to your customers, you owe it to your team, you owe it to yourself and to your family for you to be able to bring in more money every single year. Alright everyone, this is a great episode. Check out Jonathan's book. Go to yourmessage matters book.com. We'll put a link in the show notes. We appreciate all you. This has been such a fun ride. We love having really cool people. It's an honor of my life to get to serve you, and we hope that we show up every week. We appreciate our sponsor. If it weren't for them, seriously, we wouldn't be able to do this and have some really awesome people on. If you like this episode, share it with one other person. Until next episode, lead well. So the big question is this: how do small business owners like us grow our leadership, develop our teams, and scale our business in a way that allows us to get our products and services out to the world yet still remain profitable? That is the question, and this podcast will give you the answers. I'm Bradley Hamner, and this is the Club Capital Leadership podcast.

Hey, before we get into today's episode, did you know that Club Capital is the largest accounting advisory firm for insurance agency owners in the country, providing monthly accounting, CFO services, and tax preparation? Check them out at club.capital.