Episode 228: Bank On Yourself with Sarry Ibrahim

Welcome to another episode of the Club Capital Leadership Podcast. My name is Bradley Hemner, your host. On today's episode, we have— Sari is a financial planner and member of the Bank on Yourself organization, which I know many of you have heard about that. You've heard about the ideas of Bank on Yourself and the infinite banking concept. And so we thought we would have him on to just really be able to serve all of you, whether it's something that maybe you're looking at doing yourself, you've actually considered or if you serve clients in this capacity, I think if nothing else, would be a good reminder for all of you. So without further ado, here is my conversation with Seri Ibrahim.

So the big question is this: how do small business owners like us grow our leadership, develop our teams, and scale our business in a way that allows us to get our products and services out to the world yet still remain profitable? That is the question, and this podcast will give you the answers. I'm Bradley Hamner, and this is the Club Capital Leadership Podcast. Welcome to The Bottom Line, a new weekly podcast series that we drop every Thursday to complement our weekly Monday podcast interviews with the industry leaders.

These podcasts are going to be designed to give you short, impactful, and value-driven information that you can start using right away in your business.

I value your time and attention and will do my very best not to waste it.

Just get what you need and go.

So with that, let's get into today's episode.

Siri Ibrahim, welcome to the Club Capital Leadership Podcast.

Bradley, thank you so much for having me on.

Oh, pumped to have you. We always start with background and origin stories. So once you give our listening audience a little bit of your background, how you got to where you are today.

Yeah, definitely. So like many— for many people, it took a lot of twists and turns, right? This journey is taking a lot of twists and turns. Right now I'm in Chicago, Illinois, running a company called Financial Asset Protection. So we're a full-service financial services firm. I started this journey about almost 8 years ago. I got my MBA, most focused mostly on insurance. My first job, like my first professional job, was working at Allstate Insurance, sales and marketing there, and then branched off, became independent, became, um, independent and self-employed, uh, focused mostly on Medicare health insurance, life insurance, and then that kind of led further into financial planning. So right now, just full-time financial planning. I'm doing the CFP program, so I should be, hopefully, a CFP professional by November of this year. That's when I take the exam. And yeah, and then I also have a podcast called Thinking Like a Bank. So the podcast, as you can imagine, it's about how to kind of come across creative financial strategies. I bring in a lot of accountants. We talk about like creative tax planning strategies, financial strategies, loans, refinancing loans, structuring loans. So it's a lot of like, if you were to imagine how a bank would think, that's how— that's what we would convey in that podcast, or we try to convey in that podcast. Awesome.

Awesome. Well, I know enough to be dangerous about the thinking like a bank, but talk to me like I'm in— talk to me like I'm in 5th grade. What— first of all, what is thinking like a bank? What is that whole concept? Explain that to me. And then number 2, why should I want to think like a bank, right? It's like, okay, I may get it, but why should I want— I need or want to think like a bank?

Yeah, so I would, if I was explaining in a very simple way, I'd ask like, how are you paying for things like your, your home, your car, your, um, your business expenses, your employees? Like, where is that money coming from? And for a lot of people, that money is financed, right? It's It's borrowed from banks. And then my follow-up question would be, well, how much interest are you currently paying to lenders? And then after that, it's how much are you planning on spending in the future on interest? And for a lot of people, it's something ridiculous. It's like the amount of interest they'd pay in their lives is like $350,000 on average. For some people, it's much more than that because they tend to— it's correlated with the value of the things that you're buying. So the more expensive house you buy, more expensive cars, more expensive things, bigger businesses, it's it's going to cost, you're going to pay more in interest. But on average, it's something around like $350,000 per person over their lifetime in interest only. That's going to go because we finance almost everything, like student loans, credit cards, car payments, houses, you know, business loans, all types of, all types of debt. So then my other question after that would be, how do we recoup that? Like, how do we rechannel that, those, that interest to go back to ourselves, i.e., becoming your own source of financing? So that's kind of in general what we talk to, talk about in the podcast and talk to with clients. And during client meetings, we talk about how to recoup that interest. And then there's some other things like managing risk and taxes, but that's essentially the main component of thinking like a bank is the amount of interest you're paying to other people and how do you kind of rechannel that and then make that go to yourself.

Yeah, I have no idea how much interest I have paid or plan to, plan to pay. I don't carry a ton of debt, but I certainly do have some, some real estate debt for sure. But anyway, speaking of real estate, like, how do— what does that look like from a real estate investor perspective? I know you do a lot of discussions with real estate investors, and there's a lot of people on that will listen to this podcast that through the profit, the distributions of their, of their business have some liquidity to be able to plow back into different investments, one of which being real estate. So can you speak to that specifically?

Yeah, absolutely. So with real, like with real estate, there's so many different ways to go. And you mentioned like profits. So like this is like the surplus of your between your income and your expenses, right? And then a lot of question— a lot of questions— sometimes a lot of investors have the question of, what do I do with the profits? Do I just rechannel that and pay down debt? That could be good because it'll lower the amount of interest you'll pay, because a lot of loans typically are amortized, so the principal interest is paid monthly. Sometimes, like, large commercial loans are going to be like interest only, but for the most part, most people have, uh, amortized loan. So every month there's principal interest. So when you pay back more towards the principal, the interest immediately changes the trajectory of the whole, of the whole plan. So you could pay back the profits towards your loan. That's good because you end up paying less interest, but then it's also somewhat bad because what if you can then take that, those profits, and then add them back into more real estate, like more down payments on other real estate properties or other investments? Then there's this struggle. Like, there's this, do I pay down debt, put it back in, lower the debt, or do I just consistently keep reinvesting? If I keep reinvesting, I can make more money long term, but if I put that back towards my loans, then I could pay less interest. So there's kind of this like back and forth thing, and it has to do with the person too. Like, somebody who follows, you know, Dave Ramsey, conventional financial wisdom, is probably going to want to just completely eliminate all debt regardless of the type of debt it is. Me being in that situation, be currently being an active real estate investor myself, I don't think paying down debt entirely is always the answer. What if you can kind of reinvest it? But then when you reinvest it, what if you're constantly like, you lack liquidity? No. So using the strategy like the Bank on Yourself strategy and the strategy within like Thinking Like a Bank, you could potentially do both. You could pay, use the profits, fund a policy or the strategy that we use, and then borrow against that strategy to reinvest in different places. Now you have kind of two things happening. You're saving cash and then borrowing against the cash you have at a lower interest rate and kind of growing cash and growing your assets at the same time. So that's what I'd probably recommend for a real estate investor, like, look into the strategy. Hmm.

Timeline matters, right? So timeline matters. So if you're looking at something in the next 12 months or so, that strategy really wouldn't play out. You got to have a little bit longer of a time horizon, uh, because you've got to build enough of the cash cash assets into the policy, correct?

Yeah, good point. So if your time horizon is 12 months or less, yeah, probably I would probably focus on something different, like focus on what you're currently doing that's currently working for you. I would recommend doing a smaller policy. Like, maybe I started my first policy doing $300 a month. A lot of other clients start at like $300, $500 a month. I would do that. And then once you come across larger windfalls, like sometimes real estate investors, they'll sell properties and things like that and just come across, let's just say, $400,000 or $300,000, then there's a lot you could do there. You could do instant things there. You could take $300,000, put it into a policy, borrow like $270,000 30 days later, and then that money now is growing in the background. That $270,000 you have now, you could become your own mortgage now. You could buy another property or invest it into a syndication. But now the point is that you've recouped that. Now you've started your own bank in essence, right? Not an actual literal licensed bank, but your own, I guess, mortgage where you are your own mortgage. And then you still have the other policy that you're paying in $300 or $500 a month. That's growing. In a couple years, you'll be able to use that for more things. So I would want to look at a couple other things. The goals definitely matter. But I think that, like, for example, when you go, like, if, you know, you compare it to just conventional financing or regular bank loan financing, you have, you know, $100,000, right, in cash right now. You could buy an asset typically worth $400,000 to $500,000. So you take $100,000 and you buy something that's much, much bigger than what you currently have. With the bank on yourself strategy, it doesn't really work that way. You can't take $100,000 and buy something that's worth $400,000 or $500,000. It's usually the opposite. You take $100,000, you could buy something that's worth $70,000 or $80,000, but that thing you're buying is going to keep growing. So I guess using that with other forms of financing would be a very powerful strategy.

What's the biggest objection that you get whenever, whenever you're working with people and they conceptually get it, like our listening audience conceptually is going to get this pretty quickly? So whether that's something that they're doing for themselves or they're working with other people, them, you know, to share this, what's the biggest hurdle, objection that you get?

Yeah, so let me think for a second. So the biggest objection or obstacles I come across, objections people, um, I get from people, um, I'd say number one, the, the difference between the premiums and liquidity. So like the amount of money you put in and the amount of money you're able to take out is usually capped at the amount of money you put in. So like, you put $10,000 in, you're not gonna be able to borrow more than $10,000. Typically, the first year, it's probably gonna be like $6,000 or $7,000 you could borrow out of the policy depending on your age and things like that. But then eventually the policy outpaces what you're paying into it. There's a break-even point and it goes beyond that. That's one factor. And the other one thing they come across So people want like an instant, instantly beneficial strategy. Like, what could you do? What could you do today that changes my financial strategy? And unfortunately, this is not one of them. I would still look at other strategies for the client too that could help them reach that. If they wanted something instantly that would help make their financial lives better, we would— we could take a look at other strategies for them. But as of now, like, Bank on Yourself, it's not going to help you today right now. So that's one thing. The other thing is, is like, they might look at like Again, back to conventional financial wisdom, they might look at like, all right, what if I, instead of doing a whole life policy, cash value, a high cash value whole life policy, I did something that was just term insurance and I invested the rest in the stock market? Then I would ask, what are the chances that's going to happen? A lot of people don't actually end up doing that. They just buy the term policy and then it just lapses and they don't invest in the stock market. So the whole plan kind of falls altogether. So I'd want to look at that. But those are kind of the two biggest ones is the premium to cash value initially, and then the idea of investing in the stock market with the term life policy instead of doing whole life is a better fit. I, I— there's, there's more math to it, but just to kind of keep it simple, those are the two biggest ones I see.

Are you an agency owner looking to grow your revenue, increase your bottom line, and better manage your taxes? Club Capital is here to help. Club Capital is the largest accounting and advisory firm for insurance agents in the country, providing monthly accounting, tax strategy, and CFO services. Way more than bookkeeping and your everyday run-of-the-mill tax prep, Club Capital is focused on providing financial and tax advisory services that help you plan and forecast your agency's performance. Their financial dashboards and agency forecasting tools help you better understand your agency's historical performance, create, measure future targets, and see how your agency compares to your peers around the country. Imagine what it would be like to understand the impact to your bottom line when deciding to hire a new employee, or forecast the impact rate changes or commission rates will have on your business. With over $200 million in tracked annual revenue and $140 million in tracked annual expenses, Club Capital has the data and the team to help you make better informed decisions for your agency. They will help you turn that back office stress into the backbone of your agency's success by by giving you the tools to take your agency and your leadership to the next level. Visit club.capital today to book a solution overview with one of our business consultants. Club Capital, way more than a CPA firm.

How do you do— I mean, there's so many different ways to do this. There's so many different ways in business, but simply put, how do you Say somebody is upper middle class, business owner, has some flex in their budget, but we're not talking about a multimillionaire here, right? This is somebody who's bringing in, I don't know, $20,000 a month. Okay.

Yeah.

Take home, right? Spendable cash, $20,000, $25,000 a month. They got a quarter of a million dollar business. You know, their monthly, you know, monthly nut they've got to cover is, I don't know, $10,000 a month.

Yeah.

So they've got another $10,000 not to invest, not to invest. Okay. But they got a $10,000 they spent. They spend it at Dick's Sporting Goods. There's somebody listening to this. They like, you know what I'm talking about? You go play golf. You go do this, you go do that, right? You've got $10,000 in just expenses and going to dinner, going to groceries, your kids' school, so on and so on and so forth, right? So they've got some cash in their pocket and they're coming into you to talk to you about, you know, different strategies. How are you going to determine, walk somebody through, to determine both the overall need and then your recommendation of where to be, where to begin to put that. Okay. We've had different people on that have shared different strategies, which I think is great, by the way, because it gives our listening audience exposure to different ideas. I don't typically share my own thoughts. I don't think that's my role on these interviews. It's just to tee people up and to let them to be able to share kind of their philosophy of how they do things. What would you do in that situation? In my total, completely hypothetical situation.

Yeah, awesome, awesome question, Bradley, and thanks for the details. So what I would do is I would— first up is we'd have like a full financial analysis meeting. We'd go through like their income, you know, how are they coming across that $20,000 profit from their business? Is it every month? Does it change sometimes? They have other sources of income? Are they married? Does their spouse work? Does their spouse have other businesses? Do they invest in real estate? Are they active investors in real estate, passive investors? So we want to kind of go like, it's an hour long typically, typically the financial analysis meeting. So we want to take our time and really understand what's kind of happening now. And then also where do they want to go? What's their plan? Do they want to quit their job? Do they want to expand their business? Do they want to buy another business? Do they want, you know, there's, you know, so people have so many different goals and, you know, and also how far are they from retirement? That also matters too. What does retirement mean to them? So even though it's data-driven, it's also conceptual as well. Like, what do certain things mean to certain people? Not just the numbers aspect of it. That's really important too, because what you might think is, you know, financial freedom, somebody might have a completely different definition. So we want to know what that definition is of financial freedom. And then after I get all that, then it takes about a week or two. I put together a final— uh, the strategy. I usually meet on Zoom. I share my screen. Mr. and Mrs. Client, if you allocated this much money, you'd reach this goal approximately by this time. And a lot of the strategies we use are not speculative investments. It's not like if you put money in the stock market, you could retire at age 60 or 65, depending on how the market does. It's more intentional. It's more, this is what we think will happen based off of guaranteed growth in the policy, based off of a high degree of certainty that you receive these dividends. So we try to make it as clear as possible, but also that we're not gambling or speculating on certain things. It's not like there's any chance of risk involved really. And then usually the clients look at it and then there's an underwriting process that they go through. And then every 6 months we meet and we go through an ongoing 6-month review meeting with clients where we're looking up cash value, we're looking at the real estate portfolio, their business, and kind of matching that to what we initially did in the financial analysis. And it's perfectly fine for things to change. Like, people change jobs, they lose jobs, they sell businesses, buy new businesses. So it's an ongoing change, and it's fine. We just pivot for those changes. And then eventually, the ultimate goal is to get them to their financial— their financial— ultimate financial goals.

Where do you use— how do you choose the different policies? So why whole life versus a UL as an example? Example?

Yeah, so to be transparent, we don't do any UL policies just because of the— not to go too far into it, but the way we use the policies we use, like cash value life policies, whole life policies, is just because of the amount of certainty. We could say in 25 years you'll have X amount of dollars based off of a guaranteed interest rate as well as a high degree of certainty. From the companies we work with, that you'll get the dividends that we project that you'll get. So the dividends aren't guaranteed, but a very high degree of certainty that you get those. So it comes down to— we already have an idea. It's usually 3 companies we work with, 3 different life companies, and they— and then each company has like probably 3 or 4 different products within them. And then the analysis helps us determine like which company, which product, and then also like, is it— if it's a husband-wife, like, are we gonna do both policies? And there's also some other things too in there, right? It's not just only whole life insurance. We might do the policies. I also have some referral partners who are real estate syndicators. So we might do like, you have a 401(k) at a previous employer, we'll roll that 401(k) into an IRA, use from the IRA, invest in real estate. We'll also do a life insurance policy for the husband, $1,000 a month, plus spouse can do another policy that's $500 a month, plus we're expecting them the two that they're expected to inherit, like $200,000 by the end of the year. We could take that, add into other policies. So it's more like there's more changes. Also, like, we might do one policy that's going to be paid over the next 30 years, another policy that's only going to be paid for 5 years depending on cash flow and things like that.

Ambition is the first step towards success. It's time to level up your agency, and Coach P Consulting will help you do just that by using the same strategies he used to sell over 7 100 life insurance policies in 2021 alone. Now, this is not your regular one-and-done type coaching. You'll get personalized coaching 2 days a week, every week of the month, and you'll get a live look behind the scenes of his team training and an office that's performing at the highest level. There's a reason Coach P Consulting is the fastest growing coaching company for insurance agency owners in the country. Coach P will train your team alongside his own and show you the exact steps they're taking to achieve Chairman Circle, Exotic Travel and Multi-Line Presence Club and be one of the few agents to be selected to have a third office. So whether your goal is to be at the top of your local market or amongst the best in the country, this training will give you the strategies and the tactics to get there. For just $250 a month, you'll get high-level coaching each week from someone who is already getting it done at that level, and his strategies work, and it's time to put them to work for you. Sign up at coachpeteconsulting.com and get your first full month for free when you mention the Club Capital Leadership podcast?

So it's the old common answer, but it's the truthful one. It depends. It depends, right?

Yep.

It depends. The old one, people don't want it. Well, like, you know, it depends. It depends. All right. So is the infinite banking concept the same as be your own bank. Is it the same or are those different?

Yeah, yeah. So essentially it's the same thing, infinite banking. So the group I'm part of is the Bank on Yourself concept, or the Bank on Yourself group. And the differences between them, they're essentially, they're both using whole life insurance. It's just over the years, people who were doing, not just people who were doing infinite banking, but as the strategy started to grow Um, people across the country would just kind of make up their own things. They would do like a variable universal life or index universal life and say, you know, this is the infinite banking. Or they'd use like only like high life insurance, low cash value whole life policies, say this is also infinite banking. And then Bank on Yourself came around about 20 years ago by Pamela Yellen, and it was more, I guess, enforced, where it was you have to have a certification, you have to go through their program, 8-week rigorous program You have to do continuing education with them. So essentially the asset is the same. It's usually whole life insurance, but the marketing, the trademark, the enforcement of it all kind of change after that. So I'm part of the Bank on Yourself group. There's credentials, authenticity aspects to it so that way clients know that they're getting something specific, and that is usually a properly designed cash value life insurance policy. Designed for the highest cash possible, as well as the ability to borrow against it without it lapsing, and the ability to borrow against it while still growing. So there's about 2,000 life insurance companies in the U.S., and of those 2,000, really only 3—

wow, I didn't realize there was that many.

Yeah, and of them, yeah, there's about only 3 of them that could really do, you know, the high growth borrow against it without, without interrupting the growth of it, the ability to keep adding more premiums and the ability to earn dividends, you know, on a high degree of certainty. And then some other, other flexible parts of it too. Only 3 of those companies, because those 3 companies have bought into the concept, they've, they've actually created products and adjusted for the concept. Usually it was the other way around. Usually the products were already there, the companies were already there, and then we just had to, you know, Infinite Banking had to kind of find the companies and then see which ones would work with that. But on the Bank On Yourself side, Bank On Yourself Group actually went out to these insurance companies and they made products that will do exactly what the client needs— the growth, the flexibility, and all that stuff.

What was it about this for you personally that got you really interested in it and bought into the concept itself? I mean, there was something about this whenever you first heard about it, went through your own journey. What was it that just— yeah, I mean, what made you really lock in on this and say, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make my career out of this?

Yeah, it was because I saw it as a consumer first, as a client. Like, I bought into it as it— I, I, I thought to myself, I would own this myself as a customer. That was the first step. And I think that should be the first step if you want to sell something as part of your business. Um, that should be the first step, right? Like, do you believe in this as a consumer, as a client yourself? And that was a situation for me. I believed in it first, like, that I could grow wealth on a guaranteed basis, that I'd be able to finance things, I'd be able to kind of recoup interest back into my own pocket. So I believe in that on a consumer client level. And then obviously after that, since I am a licensed life and health insurance agent, I'm also in the CFP process right now, I also see this incorporating this within my business as one of the primary niches in our business. So selling this as a service or as a product to clients, um, and then making a living out of this. Because again, I believe that this— I, I tell clients all the time, I own these policies, my wife owns these policies, um, we use this within our, our lives. This isn't something like where it's like I'm only doing this just because I'm getting a paycheck for it. Like, I'm doing this because I also believe in the, the actual product itself, the concept myself. Um, and I, and I really couldn't see that. I mean, I still do other forms of insurance, like, like health insurance and Medicare. Um, but other investments, really, it's very difficult. Like, I could never see myself doing, like, mutual funds or index funds for clients because there's risk involved and, you know, there's high fees and things like that. I can't, I can't really see myself doing those things. I could see myself definitely staying within this lane and helping clients within this niche. Awesome.

Uh, what is a question or something that I didn't ask you that you feel like is important for our listening audience to know about banking yourself and the infinite banking concept as a whole?

Yeah, yeah. So it's definitely about— and I was actually doing an interview this morning with a fellow infinite banking professional, and he, he asked me a similar question, um, and he, and he said, you know, um like, what are some things that I would want to tell people about this concept? And it would— and it's for sure, for sure, it's, it's the who aspect of it. It's who the advisor you're working with, the relationship you have with that advisor. It should be a long-term relationship with that advisor, and that advisor should have your best interest. Like, I'd want them to be like independent, be able to represent many, many companies, and obviously, obviously represent you as a client. It's not really a commodity. It's not really a thing that you're buying. I'm actually reading this book right here, if you could see it, Who, Not How. And this book is amazing. It's more about running a business and the idea of not asking how do you do something, but who can help you do it. And I think the same applies with the bank on yourself concept. Look for the who, who can help you get the policy, get multiple policies, structure in a way that's going to help you and really have you at their best interest. As a client, not necessarily what commodity could you buy. The product doesn't really matter, the company doesn't really matter. Mostly it's, it's the who that's helping you get there.

Yeah, awesome. Say, uh, people want to get in touch with you, like, uh, how would they, uh, how would they reach out to you?

The easiest way is thinking— go to the website thinkinglikeabank.com. It's thinkinglikeabank.com. And then when you go to that website, you can find everything there. You can find my LinkedIn, email address, calendar booking link, ebook, all— everything is found at thinkinglikeabank.com.

Awesome. So appreciate you coming on.

Thanks, Bradley.

No, one of the things that really kind of stands out to me about this as part of my key takeaways— I'm recording this on a Tuesday. I usually do podcast recordings on Tuesday afternoon, and I was meeting with my group of business owners, uh, this morning. And every week we talk about lessons. We started with wins and then we talk about lessons. And each week on the lessons, we share what are— what's something you learned or something that you were reminded of. And so for many of you, this may be something that, hey, I kind of already knew some of those things. And for some of you, it may be a completely new concept. But I still believe that it's so important for you to be reminded of certain talking points or certain principles, or maybe even just some positioning, things that you maybe have forgotten about because maybe you hadn't discussed it or heard it in some ways. And so sometimes I'll go back and reread some books or listen, re-listen to some podcasts, because yeah, I may have gotten it, but I'm trying to pick up on that little bit of nuance. You know, the difference between good and great may be the difference between 80 and 90%. Yeah, but that extra 10% makes all the difference in the world. So go to bankonyourself.com. Sorry, it's not bankwithyourself.com, it's thinklikeabank.com. So go and check them out. Go to thinkinglikeabank.com. Thinking like a bank. Dot com. Thinking like a bank. Dot com. All right, everyone, big shout out to our podcast sponsors that make this thing tick. The trains run on time and we have great guests to hopefully serve all of you. Club Capital, Autopilot Recruiting, Coach P Consulting and direct clicks. You want to be able to get really great leads for your sales team that they can convert on a consistent basis, like a metronome. You guys know I like to play golf, so it's like a metronome. I want to be able to have leads coming in on a consistent basis. I don't need to know how to run SEO or run— like, I know how to run a a Google ad. I know how to run the thing. Doesn't mean I'm good at it. I don't know how to choose it. I know how to set up a Facebook ad. I mean, I can throw something up there and start getting leads coming in. Doesn't mean I know how to target the audience or how to do retargeting and those sort of things. Takes years to start understanding those metrics. I don't know even this perspective of the numbers that are good. So the numbers start spinning out to me and I see them, I'm like, Okay, is that good? Is that a good cost per lead? Is that a good— I don't have the perspective. And that's where someone like DirectClicks comes in. Go to directclicksinc.com. You know, also, speaking of perspective on numbers, truly, I didn't even think about this as I was sharing about Club Capital. They're going to be able to give you the perspective on your numbers because they've got the data for hundreds, almost thousands of agents, or I guess it is well over thousands of agents at this point. That they've been able to work with so that they know, okay, one, your marketing, how much are you spending? Or should you be at 5%, 6%, 7% of top line revenue? But how does that compare to some other people that are growing at the pace that you want to be able to grow? It's not around a comparison, but it's benchmarking. There's a big difference. Go to club.capital, book a no obligation demo. Well, it is an absolute no-brainer that you should be investing somewhere between, they say, 1 to 2% in personal and professional I know over the years I've shared many times that my greatest growth has become in proximity to other people through whether it's mentoring or official coaching programs, et cetera. Well, for what Coach P charges, for you to get that much exposure to what they're doing behind the scenes, absolute no-brainer. Okay. I hope I'm going to start talking to Dave and tell him, if you, Dave, if you're listening, you need to charge more for what you're doing. Now some of you are saying, no way, don't charge more. I get it. Okay. But for what he's providing, the delta between the actual value— you guys have heard value proposition before till you're blue in the face, but really and truly, his value proposition, second to none for what he's charging, for the value that they're getting. Incredible. Go to CoachPConsulting.com. Let him know that Bradley— that you heard about him and Bradley sent you over. To check him out. And of course, you can't, you can't do it alone. I mean, what Michael Hyatt says, if you want to, uh, your vision doesn't require a team, and if your dream doesn't require a team, it's not big enough, something to that effect. So at the end of the day, you're gonna have to recruit. You're gonna have to recruit. And I think I remember Steve Suggs, who came on, recently and said, you know, one of the skills that you got to get good at is you got to get good at coaching. And also you can help to not outsource all of it. By no means, it's not what David's saying to do, but you can absolutely bring in partners. The other part is you got to be better coaching. I mean, better at recruiting and having a partner that's going to be able to help you along with that, to set up the operating, the system for your recruiting on a regular basis. Autopilot Recruiting. Go to autopilotrecruiting.com and let them know that Brad List sent you. All right, everyone, till next episode, lead well.