Episode 243: Bold Mission with Debra Boblitt

Welcome to another episode of the Club Capital Leadership Podcast. My name is Bradley Hemner, your host. In today's episode, we have Deborah Boblett. Deborah had a successful career in insurance and financial services as an executive and leader for nearly 3 decades at State Farm as senior vice president. She had a proven track record of increasing revenue and market share, developing dynamic teams, and of course, leading through change with full P&L responsibilities for a $3 billion market. She improved profit margins by 5.5%. She began as an independent contractor agent herself with no clients, completely scratch, no accounts, and grew it into a thriving business. She's now a speaker on leadership, has served on a board of directors for major nonprofits. If you'd like to know more about her, visit deborahboblett.com. I think you're going to get a lot out of this episode about high-level leadership. But also how that leadership transfers into maybe what you do in your small business on a day-to-day basis. Without further ado, here's my conversation with Deborah Poplin.

So the big question is this: how do small business owners like us grow our leadership, develop our teams, and scale our business in a way that allows us to get our products and services out to the world yet still remain profitable? That is the question, and this podcast will give you the answers. I'm Bradley Hamner, and this is the Club Capital Leadership Podcast. Welcome to The Bottom Line, a new weekly podcast series that we drop every Thursday to complement our weekly Monday podcast interviews with the industry leaders. These podcasts are going to be designed to give you short, impactful, and value-driven information that you can start using right away in your business. I value your time and attention and will do my very best not to waste it.

Just get what you need and go.

So with that, let's get into today's episode. Are you an agency owner looking to grow your revenue, increase your bottom line, and better manage your taxes? Club Capital is here to help. Club Capital is the largest accounting and advisory firm for insurance agents in the country, providing monthly accounting, tax strategy, and CFO services. Way more than bookkeeping and your everyday run-of-the-mill tax prep. Club Capital is focused on providing financial and tax advisory services that help you plan and forecast your agency's performance. Their financial dashboards and agency forecasting tools help you better understand your agency's historical performance, create, measure future targets, and see how your agency compares to your peers around the country. Imagine what it would be like to understand the impact to your bottom line when deciding to hire a new employee, or forecast the impact rate changes or commission rates will have on your business. With over $200 million in tracked annual revenue and $140 million in tracked annual expenses, Club Capital has the data and the team to help you make better informed decisions for your agency. They will help you turn that back office stress into the backbone of your agency's success by giving you the tools to take your agency and your leadership to the next level. Visit club.capital today to book a solution overview with one of our business consultants. Club Capital. Way more than a CPA firm.

Deb Boblett, welcome to the Club Capital Leadership Podcast.

Thank you very much. It's my pleasure to be here.

Excited to have you. So we always start with background and origin story. I love hearing just how people— their journey, their journey in life, their journey in business, how to— how they got to where they are today. So for the people that don't know you, why don't you tell them a little bit about your story?

Okay, I'd be glad to. I started out in education, that was my degree, and I taught for a couple years and I realized at that time, 2 years in at least, that this is not right for me. This was not the right career. And so long story short, I was approached by a manager at one of the insurance companies, State Farm Insurance, and he was looking for new agents. So he asked if I would like to have a conversation about the opportunity and I said, of course, definitely, very interested. And so we met. Well, once I heard what the opportunity was, it was like, yes, we need to talk further about this. So again, you know, the thing that attracted me at the time was that you in essence own your own business. Your time is yours. If you work hard, there's actually, you know, can actually be compensated for the hours that you put in, which is so rare in today's world, really, in most positions or careers of some kind. But this one, was very attractive to me for that reason. Uh, and so long story short, several months later I had a decision to make between two different things. State Farm and being an agent was one of them, and my decision at that time was yes, this is what we're going to do. So that was in 1988, and I had been working prior to that on my master's degree in administration supervision. I had that. I was working actually on my PhD at the time in the same area. So I knew I had a very strong interest in management, leadership. So when I took the position as an agent, did very well, loved every second of it. I'll never forget when I said to myself after I started, opened my doors, oh, this is what I was meant to do. It just felt like a hand in a glove. It was just such a perfect match for me. And I started scratch, so I had zero accounts.

Accounts.

And in those days, I literally went door to door. It's hard to believe now. The technology was almost not there at all, actually. You just, you still had microfiche that you were using, no computers. And I actually used a phone book. So you can imagine literally going through a phone book and then contacting individuals that way, and then also businesses. But It did flourish. The business flourished and I loved every second of it. And a couple or 3 years in, I had an opportunity. The management of State Farm came to me and asked me if I was interested in a leadership role. And I said, no, are you kidding me? I love this too much. It's fantastic. And I just really wasn't willing to do that. But by that time, I was being asked to speak all over the country. So what they were asking me to speak about primarily was how do you build this business? How do you find staff? How do you train them? How do you incent them? How do you keep them? How do you maintain that? Uh, how do you continue to build your business? Because within the first couple years, I was in the ranked in the top 100 in the country. So I loved the management and the building of the business, and that's what I was speaking about. So when they came to me a second time a year later and said, look, we really want you to consider moving into a management role, I had to really sit down and evaluate what do I love and it really was pretty much a 50/50. I really could have gone either way, stay running the business and owning the business and loving every minute of it, or really being able to help other people do the same. So I chose to go into a leadership role, and, uh, from there on, I was with the organization for a total of 24 years just in leadership. So 28 years total with State Farm, but moved about 11 times across the country. So I've worked both coasts. I've worked in the middle. I've worked in the South. I've been in the corporate office twice in Bloomington, Illinois. But all of that time, each promotion that I received, I really felt like it was meant to be. And all of the experience and all of the training that I had received Good and bad experiences, failures, successes, all really helped me along the way. And so it was very exciting to be able to help other people build their businesses as well.

Yeah, that's awesome. Well, I want to go back to those early years. You were in education. You were an educator.

Yes.

Where did you develop the skill set, the mindset, the tools to be successful from the get-go? What, what, what in your background, past, like, where do you feel like that some of those things came for you to even be as successful as you were early on?

Well, you know, I've often been asked the question, what does it take to be a great either salesperson or leader, etc.? And, and a piece of that is it really does take passion. And drive. It takes a lot of discipline. And so I was kind of naturally wired that way. And I love people. I love being around people. There's just no doubt about it. It's my, you know, it brings me so much joy. And then I love watching people improve and seeing, seeing kind of a result of all the work that you've put in. So a lot of those characteristics were extremely valuable in my role as an agent, and they were very valuable in my role as a leader. And all of that carries forward. I'm kind of a very anal organized person, and that was very helpful in putting the business together and keeping it alive and moving forward. And I'm just naturally driven, and I'm so passionate. I could be passionate about this pencil. So I have to actually be careful that I'm not too passionate for some people, but that really helped in terms of my position as an agent and also my position as a leader.

I'm really curious. We talk about in business in general, but from '88 to, you know, for your entire career, we could start to begin to point to all of the things that changed, right? I want to ask a more challenging question. What hasn't changed in business?

That's a great question. Because you know what never changes? People. And so any business that you're in where you are with people or asking people to purchase something or think about something, etc., that never changes. People want— and a lot of my agents would have heard me say this in leadership that I was responsible for for years. It still remains true of my own business today. And I'm very active here in the community with other business owners and doing a lot of coaching around that as well. And the thing is this, that, you know, people, no matter where you are in life, you still want to know that somebody is taking care of you. And what I mean is not so much the customer, you know, service that you can provide, because I think that's a given in today's world. You expect it. But it's this experience of what people have when they work with you. Because that's what drives them to want to come back to you and more importantly, to stay with you. So all of the coaching that I've done with business people for years has been around make me— I'm your customer, whatever that is, whatever product you sell and whether it's tangible or not or consumable or not— make me want to be with you and make me want to stay with you? Why am I staying with you? What's driving me to be there? As opposed to— I used to talk to the agents a lot, right? They, you know, your customers can go to 300 different people who also have an insurance background. Why are they coming to you?

Yeah. Yeah.

Why do they want to be with you? And I'm actually coaching someone right now who's in a completely different industry, and we're creating that for him right now. Which is, you know, thousands of other people do what you do. Why are you different from them? And then why would people want to stay with you? And to me, that's what never changes. That stays the same. And I don't care what business you're in. I'm also coaching a lot of people in medicine. It's the same thing. It really doesn't matter what industry you're in.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I was actually— the podcast I was telling you about that I recorded earlier today, this very thing came up. We were discussing— and a lot of times it gets touted as kind of a fancy term of value proposition, right? But at the end of the day, it's why you? Why you? I choose a bunch of people, and especially very true in highly commoditized industries. A lot of them are, but some of them are more commoditized than others. Let's be real. Insurance, certainly. Being one of them. Okay. So, uh, I was excited to have you on because I wanted to talk to you. Um, I mean, goodness, the podcast is called the Club Capital Leadership Podcast, and I specifically chose that because we're 250 episodes in. I've recorded a, or so at this point, and I feel like even with that, we're scratching the surface of beginning to understand leadership. It's so, it's so many different moving pieces to it. So I'm going to take this down a few different paths. But first, what's your definition of leadership?

Leadership to me, and I, we've, you've probably heard this definition before, but it is true. It's really looking at the reaction of those around you, and it's drawing people to you so that they want to follow you. So if you're in any kind of position of leadership, it really doesn't matter. You know, the question you want to ask yourself is, do people want to follow me? And if they do, then you're setting the right example and you're welcoming people to you. And more importantly, they feel that when they're with you and around you, they are growing themselves. So a great leader watches people shine, and then watches them grow. And that's really a true leader, a very good leader.

I love that. I was talking to someone yesterday. We were sending a message back and forth. And in the end, I said, you know, I have to tell you, Dustin, this is the essence of the difference between art and science of leadership. What we're talking about is the art of leadership. And where do you— where did you— what are your belief patterns between those two things? Now, we may have different language around it, but like, I love frameworks. I love concepts. I love things that I feel like are tangible. I can kind of get my hands around a little bit. Books like Radical Candor, Kim Scott wrote, right? Things like that. It's like, okay, I can kind of feel that. And then there's other times where it's like, there's not a manual, there's not a playbook, there's not a framework here, there's not a concept. There's just like art and experience and skill in being able to navigate through this situation. Where do you come on those two things?

That's interesting because I really was in each of the roles that I played. Gets to the comment you just made. There was no manual, there was no handbook. It was, okay, here's what you need to reach, right? Here are your goals, here are your numbers, here are the things you need to do. You need to make sure you move this particular group of individuals, etc., to this level, whatever that was. And then you had to kind of plow through and figure it out. And so to me, the— there is such an art to good leadership because I can read every leadership book that's out there, and I've read so many. But when you put it into practice and you test it with people is when you learn what works and doesn't work. If your ultimate goal is to assist people in growing, no matter what that is, no matter what industry it is, there's a reason you're in the leadership role, right? To move the department, to move the company, to— doesn't matter. But there's an art around that, and you have to find your place and what works best for you. And interestingly enough, for example, there were times when I followed a leader, right? And then I was put in that position and my style of leadership was radically different from theirs and they were getting good results. But there I was not going to jump into that role and try to be anybody else. I had to be myself and use all the experiences and expertise that I know is peculiar to me that helps me lead others. And so there is a science because there's all kinds in my book, for example, my new book, Bold Leadership. I do a whole chapter on what makes a great bold leader. And there's like 16 characteristics that are part of that. But it's really how you take those and then you put them into practice. And that's the art of leadership. So there's definitely a difference between the two.

Is it safe to say every time you hit one of those levels, you were promoted to another level that you were in, for you at the time, uncomfortable, like rarefied air? It's like, oh God, I've leveled up a little bit. And I think even the business owners listening, they're growing, they're doing well. And then they get to a place where they go, man, I've gone from 3 people. That was super easy to now I've got 9 and I'm, I, I'm working more. I don't know how to, you know, they're trying to give more of themselves, the same amount to 9 or 10 people as they did with 3. And then they scale to 20 and now they're in super. And like, does that make sense? So, so can you speak to your own experience of being in that uncomfortable position and managing more people or leading more people. That's a whole discussion about managing versus leading. We, we—

That's a very big discussion. Agree completely.

But, but, but, but, but just specifically, how, how did you navigate through that yourself?

So you hit a really great point as it resonates with me, which is at each of the levels where I went, if I was promoted, it was a whole new ballgame. Right? It was still about the people, though, that I had to lead. But most times that I was promoted, it added, to your point, right, a whole lot more people for whom I was responsible, to the tune of thousands and thousands that I was responsible for as a senior vice president. However, what I will say is this, and it's an interesting question, because I've thought of this many times myself, and people have asked me, what helped me move from one position to another and level where I would now accumulate a lot more responsibility were the systems that I had in place that I simply took and moved forward. So that has been literally my foundation for success for years. It's also my success now in the, in the position I'm holding here. As a coach and writing the book. So, so if you have the systems in place, you can do anything as long as you know how then to put them in place for the new role. But often they don't change. A lot of it is about follow-up, follow-through, how you treat people, uh, time frames, all of those kinds of things. All the discipline that you use at an early stage, you simply apply as you move forward and upward. And to me, that has been absolutely the foundation of my success, is to have those systems in place that I literally utilize every single day.

I'm a big system person, love systems, love operating systems, frameworks, etc. Help me reconcile in other people That idea, I pulled the system from here. I work, I went to the next level. I had a system. I kept working the system. Somebody hears that and says, that makes sense. I get that. But I want you to help me help others try to figure out, okay, I hear that, but Marshall Goldsmith said, what got me here won't get me there. So the idea is like, that system worked at this level, but will that system work when I'm leading thousands of people? Does this make sense?

Yes, it does. And I think that there are times, and you need to do this in every position that you hold, you take the basic systems that you've been using and then you do have to test them out and analyze them and see if they're going to work in the same way. Right, as they did before. So some of those systems, like just generally calendaring your day, right, as an agent it had to look like this. Then I moved to my first leadership role. By the time I moved to the top, I was still doing a calendaring, but it changed dramatically. And part of it is because of technology, right? Right. So at the beginning, I literally had paper and pencil. That's what we were doing. And now, of course, everything is electronic, all the way down to your phone. That's where everything is. Uh, and so all of that changed dramatically. The importance of the system was that you have one in place that addresses, for example, calendaring your day, right? Mm-hmm. So you still have a system that you rely on, but the method by which you use it or implement it changes based on many things. The people you're working with, your environment. Do you have an assistant? Do you not? Do you have 2 assistants? In my case, did you have vice presidents, you know, reporting to you? And so you, you kind of delegated over there for those kinds of things. And then the technology plays a huge role. And because that constantly changes, you have to adapt and it just makes you better and more proficient at what you're doing. But the basics and systems do not change. You always want to have an incredible follow-up system. You always want to have a follow-through system. You always want to have a great calendar. Laundering system for the benefit of your customers, the people for whom you're responsible, whatever that is. And so that makes the difference, but it goes with you. It just changes in terms of how you use it or implement.

Context changes. Context changes. Yeah. All right. So, um, I was thinking, that's why I didn't prepare for this question, but it came to me that in entrepreneurship You know, some people start out, it's one person. Sure, you may raise some VC money and you start off with a team of 25 or 50. That, that's, that doesn't happen in small business often. But as you keep growing, you level yourself up, ideally, and you start working on bigger and bigger and bigger, bigger, bigger things to continue to move the organization forward. Here's why I'm asking this. Where I'm going with it is you did the exact same thing in a corporate world. How did you then keep yourself still close enough to the action where the actual work was happening so that you didn't lose perspective? Because sometimes people go, yeah, you know, yeah, that's how, you know, that's not how it does anymore. You know, they're, they're, they're, they're out of touch. They're out of touch. Right. And again, I think that can happen in corporate world. but it can certainly even happen in, in small business that turns into a medium business that turns into this big business one day.

Absolutely. Great question because that's reality. Uh, what I did personally was that was extremely important to me because I needed to know what was happening on the ground. So it goes back to being very disciplined and organized and calendaring. So for example, uh, when I first took on one of the new leadership roles, there were certain amounts of time that I would spend what we called in the field. And so I needed to be literally in the front of agents and their team members. And so, for example, let's say 4 times a month, once a week, I was in front of an agent and their team members. And so I had, I had a list of kinds of activities that would allow me to do that. And I literally would go there with the nitty-gritty questions. For example, Is this new thing that we just invented, is this working with your customers? What responses are you getting? What are the hassles? What are the problems with it? What are your customers saying? What's the good? What's the bad? What do your staff think of this? Is it manageable? You can go on and on with all the questions, but that's how I kept very, very close to what was happening in the field. And if any of our agents are listening that know me or any leadership that know me, they'll know. Because I was out there constantly and that was the purpose of it, is to be literally in their offices, take them to lunch, take them to breakfast, take them to dinner in small groups. And then literally we had a discussion around how is it going and tell me what we need to fix.

All right. First number that comes to mind. All right. Just, just back of the napkin number. How many small business owners have you interacted with personally over, over your career?

My goodness. Thousands.

Yeah.

Thousands.

Well, that leads me to my next question. What's the best practices? What are the ones? What are the elements? Give me the threads. I want the threads. Okay. I want specifics. We're going from high level to eye level. Okay. With the threads of the successful, successful ones. And then I want you to flip it and give me, as Charlie Munger calls it, inverse thinking.

Yes.

Give me the opposite. Yeah, give me the opposite and tell me all the things, the ones that just don't get it done, because we'll take that and just go, don't do that. Okay.

Yeah, there's your list, right? Yeah. I mean, if you think of some of the best business owners that I have worked with, uh, I, I'm sorry to be repeating myself again, but if you have to get action from your customer Okay, so for example, you want to sell a product to your customer, and in our case, in insurance, it's a what? It's a non-consumable product, right? It's not like I'm selling you this pencil that you're going to go use and see if it works or not. No, it's an insurance product that you may or may not have to literally use at some point, right? If it's life insurance, it's obviously a death. Home insurance, you know, major household issue. So The point is that you still need to have a system in place and the best do of how you follow up with your customers. What's the method you use for marketing to get them in the door? And I've often said to agents, and this is my opinion of what some of the best agents have done, is you have to have multiple marketing balls in the air. At all times. Because if you have one that you're counting on to draw customers to you, it's not gonna— it's not gonna happen forever. You know, it might work for a time, but then you also need something else and something else. And so it's having a plan, literally a business plan, that includes how you get people in the door. What do you say? What is your staff role? And you need to have a staff handbook that says to them, these are the expectations. Right? You need to be able to incent your staff along the way. So it's not just, hey, you're doing your job great, and that person's gonna stay with you forever. Not gonna happen, especially in today's world.

Mm-hmm.

So you've gotta have a way that incents, and in, in this case, in today's world, I would say individually, because every person that you hire is basically enthusiastic about one or the other, but not everything everybody else feels excited about that will keep them working with you. So that's critically important. And so as you look at all of those together, the best agents have a business plan, and most importantly, that they take action on and hold themselves accountable for. That's the key to a successful business. I don't care whatever industry you're in. I'm coaching people now from all different kinds of industries, and if you don't have that you don't have customers. It's just that simple. The other question that comes up often around this topic, and I just got asked this again, and I'm working with someone right now, they don't have all those skill sets.

Hmm.

It's not natural to them to do it. They also have an issue with holding people accountable. So how best can they do that? And, and my advice will always be, and the best agents out there will know this, If that is not your skill, the first step is to know it's not, and the second step is to hire to that skill. For example, many, many incredibly successful agents are big picture people, right? So they know how many apps they want to write per year, you know, what do they want to achieve during this year professionally, etc. They know that picture, but it's the idea of getting it there that they're not going to build the details to do. So they need to have someone that they're working with who helps build that and helps keep him or her accountable to that. And then it all works. But you've got to realize you don't have that particular skill set. To me, those are the basics of a great business, and I don't care what business you're in. Um, and you frankly have to love people. Yeah, you just have to love people. And that's been an issue for some people who— some of the agents that I've worked with who literally came to me later and said, you know what, I don't enjoy being with people. And this particular business is a people business, and that's important to evaluate.

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You know, it's almost like you do a diagnostic and you can say they've got, they've got the, the vision where they want to go. Some people don't though. Some people don't. Some people want it, but it comes across as generalized, glossy, incomplete. You're talking in circles and it's just kind of this, I want to grow stuff versus no, I'm here, I want to be there, point A, point B. Okay, you have that. What's your plan? Well, then the plan becomes this kind of mess. So it almost is like, where's the gap? Where's the biggest gap that somebody has? And one person may be really good at the visioning, and then you may be really good at the detailed planning, and then you may have both of those. But then it's like, he's got, he's got where he's going to get, or she, she's got the vision. She's got a really good plan. It can't execute. Like there's no execution. It just like kind of falls, falls short. So I'm sure you do, whether it's, you know, you can evaluate, see where the actual gap is. And a lot of times they just, they kind of, they don't even necessarily realize cuz they can't read the label from inside the jar. Right.

Yeah. And, you know, you really make a choice there at that point, which is, am I willing if I don't have that skill set of accountability? So I have— I'm a visionary, right? I could say, hey, I want to grow, but I'm not the kind of person who holds people accountable. Well, you have a choice to make, really. Is, is there someone who can assist you with that so that you get the job done because your vision is great, or you're in the wrong business, or you should not be owning a business because it is going to rely ultimately on you. Having a plan and working it. It's, it's very, very basic. But there have been people that we have advised not to get into the business because that drive to get there and make sure they had a plan to get there and follow it was not there. And that would be very detrimental to the person who's trying to own the business and then ultimately to the customers of that business.

Let's, let's get it straight. I've said it many times on this podcast. Business is hard and it gets harder. It's hard and it gets harder. I actually just heard one of my mentors share this, and I had never heard this thing he calls the factor of 10. And he basically said, he told a story, uh, I might, I might do a solo on this, by the way, Deb. I was telling you about this earlier, but, um, apparently, um, Oprah said something about meat somewhere, and cattle farmer associations said, we're going to sue you for a billion dollars. And apparently they tried to, right? And somebody asked her, like, are you not stressed out of your mind? She said, I'm, I'm so glad that I'm in a position that I actually could be sued for a billion dollars. How many people can actually be sued for a billion dollars? And it's like What a perspective that is. What a problem to have, you know, versus I'm dealing with $100 problems. Can you deal with the factor of 10 of $1,000? Okay, got those. Now $10,000 problems. Now $100,000 problems. So the bigger you get, you're going to deal with more and more problems. I'm sure you saw the exact same thing in your role.

Yeah, definitely. And so again, I think you really have to take the basics, and then you have to move them out and multiply them out because exactly that, the higher you move up in an organization and the bigger your business gets, the bigger the problems are because you have more and there's more to lose because you've invested in that business to make you as successful as you are. But I keep going back to this, you know, I don't know, Bradley, I just really believe it. And I guess it's been reinforced forced again in the last couple of years as I'm coaching people in multiple businesses, that, that those, that is still so true. As, as I analyze what the issues are and we have conversations, it always comes down to those basics that are not in place, or they are in place, but they don't know how to act on them or to hold themselves accountable for it. It has to happen. It's just who you choose to do that.

Yeah, sure, sure. Um, all right, I gotta ask a question. You can save— you can redact the names and the— and to protect the innocent, but oftentimes in business and in leadership, we've learned the most through mistakes that we've made. What are a few moments that you can look back on and say, I just didn't handle that very well, but And in the moment, I wish it hadn't happened. But looking back on it, I'm so glad that it did because it taught me an invaluable lesson.

Oh, I have many of those, and I'm asked to speak on that a lot. What are the mistakes you've made and what about your learnings and what were they? So I'll give you an example. This is a leadership learning, not so much running the business learning, but when I was in one part of the country, I was told by you know, those above me, we want you to go out there and we want you to fix it. We have major problems here. We know your skill set, your experiences are going to go out there and you're just going to go fix it, right? So that's how— that's kind of who I am. So I go out there and I'm ready to fix it. Well, it had the opposite effect because of where I was, etc., etc. It's a little bit more complicated. But that particular group of individuals did not respond well to that at all. And so that first year and a half, my numbers were over here, way down here, right? Until I did a very humbling experience with them. And if any of them are listening, and I still recommend this for many business owners, and that is I did was called a stop, start, continue. And so I, at that time, I had a huge team of field executives reporting to me. And the idea behind it was tell us what you want Deb to stop doing because it's ineffective. What do you want her to start doing that she isn't doing that would help? And what do you like that she's doing and you want her to continue to do because it is helpful? Well, that meeting was about 6 hours long. And so, you know, did I learn a ton about myself and about the team for whom I was responsible and what they really would want from me differently? Oh yeah, definitely. And so I implemented my own business plan and gave it to them and said, okay, I'm gonna change the following things based on what you told me via your feedback. And then I want you to hold me accountable. And I'm gonna check in with you every couple months and ask you, is this meeting your needs? Is this what you had in mind? Is there anything else I can be doing differently that will impact you positively? And frankly, that's when my career took off even more. And it was because I learned so much from that particular experience that, that went with me as I moved forward. And I had to change my leadership style in some situations and some of the things that I was doing because it wasn't always effective.

Mm-hmm.

And It was a very huge learning experience for me. Ultimately.

What a great example.

Yeah. The good news is then those numbers started flourishing and I really was very excited about the difference it made, but it was all about me humbling myself and learning more about myself so that I could then replicate that in a different way as I moved across the country.

Okay, this is great. This is actually a really great segue into something that is a kind of a catalyst off of that. Scenario. And that's such a great example. Kudos to you though for being, for having the humility to go, okay, it's not working. At the end of the day, you being effective is what matters. What the path that you took wasn't the right one. I've got to kind of go back. And then, and then I'm sure that that 6-hour meeting was not fun. I'm sure that there I'm sure that there were things where you're just like, I actually don't agree with that, right? I mean, I'm sure there's people that— definitely. There's times where it gets the mob mentality, right? And everybody's just like, jump on because that's just what it is. Just add on more, you know, just add on. Right, right, right. So, but, but here's what I want to get to. I want to get to feedback loops. So because let's say, let's say your internal team. Okay. And I was just talking to somebody about this yesterday or day before, and he's really working hard in his organization to create to where he's giving feedback and then they're giving feedback. But he's had a couple of people that almost are resistant, resistant to want to be completely honest. And here's why. They think I don't know about that. I don't know if I want to give my manager that type of feedback because if I do, that might come back and bite me in the butt. What did you do to allow people to feel safe, secure, to give that feedback versus, no, we're not going to give you the feedback you really want, Deb. We're going to actually just tell you what you want to hear so that I don't cause any problems.

So in that particular case, and then I've done something similar to this in different roles that I've played. I didn't conduct the meeting. Oh, so I had somebody else from a very objective perspective come in. They had filled out the information in writing in advance, and then that person led the discussion about all of those issues with them. And that meeting was 6 hours of conversation.

Wow.

Then they pulled me back in, and then we spent another couple hours together where they discussed these things with me. But the best thing that I could have done for that exact reason, Bradley, is to make sure that they felt comfortable talking about whatever it was that was on their minds. Because I'll tell you what I knew: if they didn't give it to me honestly, then nothing would change. And I needed to know what is hindering you from moving forward, you know, and what do you need from me that will really help you. And so by doing it that way, it was very, very helpful, and I think that's why we got very honest answers.

Oh yeah, that's good. That's really good insight. Okay, so I know that everybody will answer a version of this and they'll say, I'm grateful for the experiences, I don't have regrets. So it's not about regrets in this question, but if you could go back to 1988 and you were speaking to the 1988 Deb Boblett and you have the opportunity to speak into her life and what I'm using that as is as a, as a representation of somebody who is very early on in their career. They're a newbie in leadership, they've never been in this position, they're honestly in rarefied air. What are just like 1 or 2 things that you, you could say, hey, I'm going to speak into you this, uh, right now?

I would say as a new agent or any new business person, uh, is to meet with— and I have this in my book, I talk about this as well— you need a mentor and you need a champion. And those are two different things. And then you need a net of people. And I did do this later. So to your point, Bradley, I wish I would have done this in a very disciplined way when I was first starting in the business in the first couple, three years, because it would have propelled me and allowed me to avoid some of the mistakes that I did make in running the business. So, you know, a mentor is somebody you choose. They don't choose you. You go out and you choose a mentor. In an agent's case, or anybody's business owner, I would say choose someone who you see getting it done, whose methods you agree with, and you really love the culture they've created in their business. Go talk with them, ask them a zillion questions. How did you do this? How did you do that? What would you recommend for me? And, and so forth. And then while you grow the business, you do need, especially in an environment where you have opportunity for growth in terms of yourself, and promotion. And again, depends on what business you're in and what you're doing. But if you do, you want a champion. And the difference between the two is that champion isn't offering you advice. They're behind you 100%, promoting you. And so that's really important. And then the last piece would be to create a net. And a net is a group of people that changes from year to year or time to time, depending on the position that you're in, etc., who are from all different experiences and expertise that will help guide you in what you're doing. So for example, in my net, I had people with— while I was working at State Farm, I had people within the State Farm, you know, arena at different levels, and then I had people outside of it. I had both men and women. I had people from other industries. So they came with a lot of experience and expertise that I could tap into one by one. But I always had about 7 people at least in that net. And then when I changed positions, often I'd want to put somebody else in there because it made sense for me to, you know, have somebody else that I could use as a reference or resource or whatever. That was extremely helpful in my career, and I'd recommend that to everybody. No matter what they're doing. But those 3 pieces I wish I would have known early on, and it would have made a difference.

Oh, that's awesome. Well, you've mentioned it a couple of times. You teased it a couple of times. Congratulations on your book that just released a few months ago, Bold Mission: Courageously Pursuing Your Calling. So what was the impetus behind deciding to write your book?

Well, when I had left the company, I of course had so many people say to me, I hope you're gonna write a book. I hope you're gonna do something. I hope you're gonna tell everybody about your experiences, et cetera. Because by then I was doing a ton of speaking and had created large groups of individuals where we would hold kind of leadership meetings for aspiring leaders and that kind of thing. And at first I said, no, there's no way. I'm not writing another leadership book. Who cares, right? And, and what, what are Deb Boblitz's experiences gonna do for anybody? And so, Then I started my coaching business and I was actually watching a podcast for coaches. And one of the people that were, was on that, um, event that particular day said, you know, as a coach, you really should write a book so that you have such credibility with your clients and they know what is your foundation and framework by which you operate. And that would be very helpful for you. And that it was like it clicked. And so at the same time, I was looking at a lot of statistics, etc., about the condition of our country and the mindset of our young people. And as we all know, following COVID, lots of suicide among young people, particularly, believe it or not, women who literally had— and this is from the CDC, that report just came out recently where they analyzed young people in terms of their anxiety, their fear, and particularly their hopelessness. It's huge among young people and college-age individuals. So with all of that in mind, you know, the more I thought about what was happening in our country and, you know, culturally how we were all feeling and things had changed, etc., and after COVID really created a difference, was, you know, we need more and more bold leaders who are out there being able to talk about what matters. And not worrying about what other people say, but what you believe are your skills, your talents, and your mission in life. So starts with your skills and talents, which leads to what do you believe your mission is in life? And then once you know what that is, what are the steps for getting there?

Mm-hmm.

And what do you face along the way? And so in the book, I have used, oh, I think 7 or 8 people whose lives I have looked at, know personally, where they started over here. And one of them is an incredible story of domestic abuse where she was literally shot in the neck by her partner. She was in bed bleeding out all over the bed, had enough left in her energy to reach over, get her phone, and call 911. And as soon as she called 911, she passed out. That woman today is what I call a contagious personality. You, you can't, you can't not love her. And she owns 4 businesses, successful businesses, and is starting her 5th. So it's, it's what did she feel her calling was despite her roots, despite her roots. And she was born in Mexico, so she knew no English, and they literally lived on a dirt floor and washed all their clothes in the river. And here she is today, incredibly respected woman who owns 4 businesses. She's won the, um, she's won a national award, etc. It goes on and on. But my point is, it, it's what do you believe your calling is, and then how do you get there with the obstacles along the way, because there always are.

Yeah.

But how do you reach that goal? That's what the book is all about. And I felt like it was really a need to do that. And since then, it has been confirmed over over and over again by so many people of, this is what I needed, this is the stage of life I'm in, whether you're a young person or older person, I'm making a transition, I feel like I need to, I feel like I need to follow my passion in life, I never did that, what are the steps for me to do it? And that's all in.

That's awesome. Well, I know people are going to want to pick up a copy after listening to this episode. People want to connect with you, find out a little bit about, um, a little more about you. Connect with you personally, um, where would you point them to for the book, etc.?

Yeah, so the book is available on Amazon, and it's actually available in 4 versions. So it's hardback, paperback, it's also an ebook, and I also did personally the audio of my own book. So you can purchase it that way. Uh, you can look at my site at www.deborahboblett.com, where I kind you can see me doing different things, speaking on different topics, etc. And then I'm also on LinkedIn under Deborah Boblett.

That's awesome. It's been great having you on, and I hope to have you back on in the future.

Thank you, that would be wonderful. I appreciate it, Bradley. Thank you.

Well, I had a lot of takeaways from that episode with Deborah. One of the ones, whenever she told the story about where she went in and did the stop-start continue. I thought that was fantastic. Made me think about 360 reviews, the other things. Am I getting the feedback that I need from my team and using that framework of stop, start, and continue? I thought the discussion around the art, but also the science of leadership was really valuable for me and kind of a big takeaway. I thought that whenever she was sharing some of the things that interwoven and almost reminded me or maybe validated some of my own beliefs around business and some of the things that really make you got to make sure you have these elements in the recipe to make sure that you're successful. So that validated for me about, you know, having a vision for where you're going to go, having a detailed plan, having a great team, given the team the assets. She mentioned a handbook, incentivizing them, holding them accountable. To be able to drive those results. You would love to go to her website and temperaboblett.com and pick up her book. I think it would be a great asset for you and a great time well spent. She's got such years of experience and she talks a lot about those systems in her book that she mentioned on this episode. Big shout out to our podcast sponsors, Club Capital, Autopilot, recruiting and Coach P. It's so important to develop your team on a regular, consistent basis. As Deb was saying about, you know, how do you hold people accountable? How do you do this? Well, if you want to know how somebody is doing it today, and it's going to give you kind of the behind the baseball, behind the scenes of how they're doing it with, you know, 20+ employees, go to Coach P Consulting. .com, but that may not be your problem. Your issue may be, I just need to find some quality people and having, you know, just like with marketing, you don't want just one lead source for your marketing. Same thing with your candidates. To be able to find A-players, you need to be able to have a really nice system, but you need to do it on a consistent basis. We've all heard that before, but it comes down to Yeah, I hear that, but am I actually executing on that on a regular basis? That's where Autopilot Recruiting comes in. It does a fantastic job. They're going to do such an awesome job of onboarding you and asking you those questions to get to know your situation. What are you trying to accomplish? Why would a candidate choose you? What's the area that, that, or areas or areas that you would want to, to be able to target What are areas— it's just even the onboarding and the questions are going to be different than what you may have even thought through yourself. But yet they've done it for thousands of agents and insurance agency owners at this point, small business owners just like you. They know your business, they get you, and they're going to be able to help you to really build a bench for your agency, go to Autopilot Recruiting. Com. You know, in my intro with Deb, I mentioned complete P&L responsibilities that she had. And while that was obviously not her business, she certainly had a business, her own business at one time. You as a small business owner have complete P&L responsibilities for your business. Do you know how to read the P&L? I remember seeing something one time we actually used in an email. If you don't know how to read a balance sheet, you might want to read this. And I think that, you know, I didn't for a long time know how to read a balance sheet. And look, I mean, you don't have to be an accountant. Club Capital is not going to try to encourage you to do that, but they are going to equip you with the right skills. They're going to transfer over the right mindset for you, and then they can help you to be able to have— make sure you have the right tools to make better decisions in your business. Go to club.capital. Take a look at all the different offerings that they have. And not only that, but you're going to be able to book a no-obligation demo with someone. Go to club.capital. Hey, have you heard? We are launching a Club Capital community. Go to the website, go to club.capital. Www.patreon.com/podcast, and you're going to learn some more information about the community that we are building. Look, I know that many of you are already in different groups, whether it's on Facebook or whatever. You may say, why do I need to be in another group? Have you ever wanted to feel like that you could actually interview, you could ask questions? I really wish Bradley would ask this question. Well, now you can. If you're a part of our leadership community, we stream these interviews instead of them being down the road, 6 weeks or 7, 8 weeks down the road. You actually get to participate in our podcast community. We think it's super unique. We're at the time of this recording. We have not launched it yet, but by the time this releases, we will just be in some of the beta phase. So if you go to club.capital/podcast, you can get on the list or you'll be able to join whenever we go live. We're really excited about this. Wanted to be able to find different ways to be able to serve you. And a lot of people have mentioned that they wish that they could ask questions. And some of the people that we have on the podcast obviously are incredible. We're so fortunate. And now we want to be able to bring you into a community of other people for the podcast. So go to club.capital/ podcast and check out our leadership community. Alright everyone, so next episode, lead well.