Episode 424: Creating Trust and Credibility with Michael DeLon

Welcome to another episode of the Above the Business podcast. My name is Bradley Hamner, your host. On today's episode, we have Michael DeLeon. He creates credibility. He's the founder of Paperback Expert. He helps business owners publish the book that position them as the expert in their field. A lot of business owners seek out Michael to clarify their brand strategy and create their profitable book. Without further ado, here's my conversation with Michael DeLeon. Michael, welcome to the Above the Business podcast.

Thank you, Bradley. Looking forward to being here. It's going to be a great conversation, buddy.

Excited to have you. Well, take on— take our listeners back. Like, uh, how did you get started? Tell us about your journey. We'd love to do background and origin story, take people back and bring us to present day. How did you get to doing what you're doing now? Sure.

Okay. Um, so I'll just tell you the whole story, right? This all started when I escaped from prison, but I'll get there. Um, I'm a follower of Christ, been married since 1990 to my dear wife Jill. Uh, we've got 4 children now. And during the '90s, I was in Christian radio marketing and sales in Indiana. So I was selling, you know, radio advertising to businesses. And after 2 years of that, I found out nobody wants to buy Christian radio. They all want to sell their products and services. And so I had to make a decision to either become really good at selling or really good at marketing. So I chose marketing. I bought the books, I followed the gurus, I went to the conferences, learned how to do marketing for small businesses. And so my, my business grew through the '90s as I helped other businesses. We had 2 children there. And the first 5 years of my marriage though, Bradley, were like this, okay? My wife and I are complete opposites. We both grew up in church, but nobody ever taught us how to be married. So about 5 years into marriage, we went to a Weekend to Remember marriage conference, and we learned God's blueprints for marriage. I didn't know he had any. And so we grabbed his blueprints and started applying them. Our marriage got better through the '90s. At the end of the '90s, God laid on my heart to leave Christian radio. Went to a startup.com for a couple of years. They were way ahead of their time, which means they went bankrupt. And so I was standing in my living room going, God, what am I supposed to do now? And he spoke to my heart. He's like, Michael, I want you to ministry to families and I want you at Family Life, that ministry that changed our marriage. So it's a missionary organization, part of Campus Crusade. So we raised our financial support for 2 years and moved from Indiana down to Little Rock, Arkansas. And they dropped me in the radio department of that ministry and I thought I'd hit nirvana. Why would I ever do anything else but help build marriages, right? I climbed the corporate ladder. 6 years later, I'm on the leadership team of that ministry and doing great things. And then they start going through corporate reorganizations. And the third reorganizational chart gets rolled out and my name's no longer on the leadership team. And they start shuffling me around the ministry to do different jobs, right? So that began a 2-year, I call it a prison term, where I was in a job I hated at a ministry I loved, but it was just sucking me dry. So after 2 years, I talked to my wife, I prayed, I said, God, I gotta get out of this thing. And he's like, well, what do you wanna do? I said, I wanna go help small business owners with marketing because that's what I love. They hate it. And God said, go. So on January 1st, 2013, I escaped from prison. I started a marketing consulting firm. I'd call you and reach out to you, Daniel. We'd— Bradley, Daniel. I'd come out and talk with you. And we'd have a great conversation. Somewhere in that conversation, you say, now, Michael, this all sounds good. Tell me, who else have you helped? And I said, well, I've been helping build marriages and families at FamilyLife. And you'd say, well, that's all honorable and good. Well done, Michael. Look at the time. I got another meeting coming up, Michael. Can we reschedule? And you'd usher me right out the door. I couldn't get any clients. And so I went to my church one day, Bradley, and I was pacing the hallway and I was like, God, how do I help Bradley? And God laid it on my heart to put all of my ideas in a book. And so I wrote and published my first book. It's called On Marketing back in 2013. And so then I would call you, Bradley, and I'd set an appointment. I'd mail a copy of my book to you. I'd walk in your office the next week and there it was. My book was on your desk, dog-eared, highlighted, underlined. You'd read my book. And in that meeting, you'd pick up my book. You'd say, Michael, now in your book you said, and you'd quote something that I wrote and you'd say, how do you help me do that? And you'd hire me. I started gaining clients. I thought, why don't business owners do this for marketing? Well, back then nobody was doing this, right? So I went back to church and I built a spreadsheet of all of the steps it took me to write my book. I built a system, a process where business owners can create a book without writing a word. And so I started doing that and that planted the seed that is today Paperback Expert, which is, that's exactly what we do. We help business owners, entrepreneurs create a book without writing a word. We teach them how to use their book to gain clients just like I did. And it's an amazing, amazing process. So that's a really fast story of how I got here.

I think that we're going to get to some of the skill set things that I'm not an author and I don't know how to do that, and, and, and some of the skill aspects of it. But I'm gonna guess that for people listening, this probably the biggest block is the mental block. Who am I to be writing a book? What are some— speak to that one, and then also some of the other mindset, or I guess what would be called limiting beliefs, that you see.

Yeah, yeah, that one really, I tell people, if you've been in business more than a couple of years, you have plenty of experience to write a book. You really only have to be a couple of steps ahead of your audience. And most of the clients that I work with, Bradley, they have forgotten more about what they do than their clients will ever hear, right? And it's not as much honestly about pontificating on how much knowledge you have about this topic. What it's about is connecting at the heart level and giving your audience somebody they can trust. So here's one of my marketing philosophies. People buy who you are more than what you do. And in your book, you want, you want to be telling your story of why do you do what you do and what's your process. I know you're a big acronym guy just like I am, right? Do you have a, do you, have you named your process? That in and of itself can set you apart in the eyes of your audience. Write a book on that, right? So you've got to get away from this whole imposter mentality. You are smarter and better than, than you think. And don't compare yourself to the Tony Robbinses of the world. Compare yourself to the guy down the street who's doing the same thing you are. And trust me, you've got enough to share. Um, so that was one. Um, other, other myths. Um, I mean, that's the big one. The, the other myths, or, or the challenges— let me, let me say, I don't know if they're myths, they're challenges— of I don't know how to do it. You know, you don't ever want to look at a blank screen and, and try to create something. There's a much better way to do it. I'm a book publisher, yet I will tell you never write a book. I will tell you to speak to write your book. That's our process. But you can use Microsoft Word or Google Docs. And the reason we say that is you're going— you're a communicator. You do it all day, every day. Speak into the computer. Let it transcribe your words and then go back, or maybe hire an editor to take your words and craft them. So much faster, so much better. So those are just some of the, the barriers I see that, that we help people get, get, get past. Did that answer that question?

Yeah, it did. Why don't you speak to— I think also some people immediately when they think about a book, they think about the experience they have of walking into Barnes Noble, and then they're— or New York Times bestsellers list. And obviously that's— I mean, it can be that, sure, but that's so few and far between versus writing the book that actually builds the business.

Yeah. Yeah. At the end of the day, when, when you've got a book that has relevant content relevant to your audience, right, they— this is going to sound blasphemous. They don't care if you're an Amazon bestselling author or New York Times bestseller. At the end of the day, when I first published my book, I was none of that. But when I put it in your hands, it set me apart because it's not a business card and it's not a brochure. In the mind of your audience, a book speaks authority and credibility. Okay? That's the game changer. It's a VIP fast pass ticket to the front of the line. At the end of the day. You're not in— yeah, my, my book's actually not in Barnes Noble. It is online, but I don't care. I want you coming to my website to get a free copy. I want to hand you a signed copy. That's where the business is built. And then I'm going to give you 4 or 5 copies, Bradley, for you to hand out to your peers at the club or when you exercise, business owners who need the same thing you need. And you had such a great experience with me, you're going to say, hey, you should read Michael's book. He's pretty smart. That's how you get business as a— as an author in business.

What does it look like? What's the typical length of time in the— in the typical journey look like from— okay, I think I have something to say and I reach out to you from start to finish, soup to nuts. I've got an actual physical book in my hand. Just high level, what's that look like?

Yeah, high level, 6 months start to finish, completely done. We've got a staff of writers, designers, team. We've built a process over the last decade to expedite your content. And the way we do that is through interviews. Our writers interview you 1 or 2 hours a week. You speak your content, we craft your words, we design it. You have full control over the content. You know, you're involved in every process, but we built our business for busy entrepreneurs who don't have a lot of time. And not only, not only time to write the book, but every month you don't have your book, you're losing money.

Yeah.

And so we want to get that book into your hands and so that you can get into the hands of your audience. So 6 months, your book's done, published, ready to go.

Hmm. What does then the journey look like? And I don't know if this is the right word to use, but I have a, I have a book finished. I don't know, 40,000 words or something like that. And what does the typical book launch look like, if this makes sense, right? What, what is that typically? What do you see there? And, and, and how does that get kind of brought in with a broader, maybe a broader marketing strategy, maybe, maybe some speaking engagements as an example?

Yeah, yeah, great question. Our book launch is all around you becoming an Amazon bestselling author, right? We guarantee to make that happen and we control all of that and we make it happen. Outside of that, we work with our clients to understand what's the long tail of the marketing, because I've seen too many business owners and book publishers saying, we're going to launch your book, and they put all their effort into a 1-week, 2-week, month-long promotion and then it fizzles out. That's terrible. I mean, nothing wrong with launches, but I'm interested in the speaking engagements or in putting your book on your website so you can offer it as a free— get a free copy of my book. Just go to my— just download it. Read, learn about me. Number 1, it gives people time with you. And number 2, it puts them on your list so that you can market to them, invite them to other events, right? Build a relationship with them. We talk a lot about grassroots marketing. Like I said earlier, you know, handing copies of your book. If you've got clients, why not mail a copy, a signed copy of your book to your best clients? It'll give you a good reason to call back in a few weeks and say, hey Bradley, I sent you that book. Did you get a chance to read it? Yeah, I'd really like to have your feedback. Starts a conversation. Hey Bradley, do you know anybody else who might enjoy reading that book? I'd love to mail it to them, or I'll give you copies and you can mail it to, right? It's that old school high-touch, high-relationship aspects. Speaking at Rotary clubs in town? Great. Take copies of your book with you, right? If you want to speak on stages, have a QR code as you speak on the screen. Get a free copy of my book. Your book has value, intrinsic value, not only because of the content that's held within it, but also because on Amazon it's going to be for $17.95. But I can get a free copy here. So there, there's a value exchange, but the biggest value is the time spent with you. And if you can get people to spend more time with you, odds are they're going to spend some money with you when they're ready.

What are some case studies of business owners you've worked with? Because I know that there's people that, you know, aspirationally want to do something like this, but they've been held back. And I know you probably have some case studies of people that finally decided to, to take the plunge, do the thing. And, and, uh, yeah, they had success with the book itself, great, but it's really what the book propelled for them and the business and the opportunities that were opened and the doors that were slung open, uh, that otherwise would have been closed.

Yeah, one of my favorite ones came years ago, and, um, I mean, we've been doing this since 2013, right? So I don't know, this is 2 or 3 years in, and I had a a home inspector come to me in, in, uh, Arkansas. And home inspectors are pretty much commodities. I mean, do you remember the home inspector, the guy when you bought your house? Do you remember his name? And who is— yeah, most people don't. And he came to me, and it's— I mean, that's a super competitive field. And he's like, Michael, I want to be— I want to be different. I want to be a best-selling author. I want— and I said, okay, so let's talk. And I looked at his marketing, his message, and he, he just sounded like everybody else. And I got his story. I said, so Chris, what do you do on weekends? And on nights and weekends, he's a high school football referee. And he lit up. I mean, he loves this stuff. And he said, oh yeah, there's so many similarities between refereeing football and home inspecting because they've got rules and they got flags and they got— and I said, really? So we took that concept and I merged those two together and we published his book. It's The official guide to home inspections. And I branded him as Chris Perry, America's home inspection referee. And I said, Chris, now what I want you to do is wear your referee outfit when you go to all the realtors' offices, you know, to get business. I want you to wear your uniform and carry your book and hand your book out. And when you go inspect a house, wear your uniform. And when you find a problem, put a yellow flag on it, right? Start branding yourself differently than all the other home inspectors. I've seen him do billboards and all kinds of stuff looking like this now. And the interesting thing, Bradley, is I didn't make that up. I discovered that story that he wasn't telling by asking him a few questions. And what I find is that every business owner has a story and most of them aren't telling it. And if you simply tell your story in a compelling way, it opens all kinds of doors. So his business has grown drastically over the years, right? Because he's different. And then another one, wildly successful, Elynn Godfrey. She's a financial advisor up in Canada. And she came to me. She was having— she was struggling trying to write this book. So she hired us and we created— you'll love this— an acronym for her process. It's Retire On Purpose. And retire is a 6-step process. I talked with her. I said, what do you do in your business? And she told me. I'm like, okay. So I just, I named it. And now she has a retire process to help people retire on purpose. We branded her as the financial architect for Canadians. So you see the houses. We published her book and I said, all right, Alana, she's been doing this a long time. I said, do you have a database of people? She's like, well, yeah. I said, okay, here's what I want you. I want you to send out an email to your database. Subject line, don't buy my book. Body copy, I want to give you a free copy of my best-selling, my new best-selling book. If you'd like to have a free physical copy, just let me know. I'll mail it to you. She had 80 people respond to that. She mailed 80 copies of her book out to this database of people who knew her somehow, came to a seminar. Within a month, she had 12 of those people walk into her office and say, okay, we're ready to do business now.

Hmm.

Okay. They, they, they had engaged with her at some level, but she hadn't really done anything to get them going. But simply offering them a copy of their book was enough for them to go, we're ready. She paid for her book within a month, and that was a year ago. She is, she is just killing it now. But she I talked to her a few months after that and she's like, Michael, I'm— you know how well that worked? I'm going to do the same thing in my neighborhood. Because she lives in a pretty affluent neighborhood, she's like, I'm going to mail one to every one of my neighbors. I said, that's a brilliant idea. So there, there are so many ways to utilize a book. And in a book, but all right, think about this, you got 9, 10, 12 chapters in your book. Now you've got 9 or 10 emails, 9 or 10 social media posts, 9 or 10 little webinars, 9 or 10— it's a library of content. So you never have to think about, what am I going to say this week or this day? It's, it's there. So did that answer that question? Those are two, those are two case stories. I mean, I could go on and on and on.

Yeah, that's great. So what, how do you feel about— I mean, you, you, you showed for people, um, watching this, they'll see the two books, but I mean, you have those are, I would say, kind of traditional books when I think about the books in a traditional way. But then there's also, there's ebooks, and then there's mini books. And I think about, um, Dan Sullivan, right? Dan Sullivan's books. He kind of has written a lot of books very well. He recently, of course, partnered with Dr. Ben Hardy and wrote much more mainstream books. 10x is Easier Than 2x. And, and, and that, I think everybody understands that. Let's go back to like his ideas of his mini books as an example, where they're one idea, one concept, I don't know how many words, maybe 10,000, designed to be read in about 60 minutes, something like that. And I think that people can kind of get caught up in like, I don't know how long it should be and the structure, and is it— am I going to write a mini book? Am I going to write, you know, uh, this big you know, 60,000-word book, etc. Can you speak to that?

Yeah, absolutely. And, and we, we, we address that in a couple of ways. The, the length of the book is, is kind of like the length of a video. It's irrelevant as long as the content's compelling and interesting, right? If— so Dan writes, Dan writes for, for Strategic Coach, right? I was in Strategic Coach this year. He writes those little books specifically for his coaching clients. That's where the idea came from for those little books that he did, right? One idea a quarter. He writes one of those every quarter. He's been doing it for years, right? That's why it came out that way. So for business owners, we have a lot of business owners who aren't ready to do a full book with us, okay? So what we created is a, a, a lead magnet is what we call it. It's a 25, 26-page high-value One topic ebook really is, if you look at it, designed to solve one problem of your audience. And then what that does is it gives them time with you and experience with you so that when it opens up another problem, guess who they're thinking of? It's you. And so we've created that little program as kind of a starter And some people get that and they say, "Man, that's awesome, Michael. Thanks." And that's all they ever do with it. Praise God. Others say, "Hey, that was great. I've been thinking about this larger book." And they migrate up to a larger book. That's great too. But it has to do with what's your purpose behind it. And if you look at Dan's books, yeah, each one is one topic, but they all string together to really accomplish what he's trying to do with his entrepreneurial coaching program.

Sure, sure. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So, um, there's— if I go more meta here for a second and I think about marketing in general, and I think about for somebody that's listening to this creating their marketing plan for 2025, my goodness, there are so many things you could do. Yeah, you could have a fo— you could start a podcast. Sure. You could have a deeper focus on YouTube. You could really decide that you're going to go deep on LinkedIn, or I don't know, depending on the business, TikTok or whatever. I mean, um, you could then go traditional routes. You could go back to mailboxes depending on the business and, and do direct mail. You could do, you could do cold email, right?

Right.

It's endless. Every business owner is dealing with unlimited options and marketing is no different. Yeah. Along with balancing that against limited resources, time and money being the two biggest, but attention, focus, all of those things. Make the case for someone to prioritize a book as, as either part of that or along maybe at the top pyramid of that going into the next year?

Yeah. One, one big word that I'll use is trust. Okay. And no matter what you're doing, all of those are great marketing channels. At the end of the day, what we do business with people we know, like, and trust. How do you build trust? You spend time with people. Now, that may be listening to their podcast or watching their videos. If you're doing LinkedIn outreach of some nature, how are you different? What is— how is your message different than the other 12 guys and gals who are doing it just like you? If you're doing a podcast, yippee skippee, how's your podcast different than the other 10,000 that are out there? What's different about you? Marketing happens in the mind of your audience. It's how they think about you.

It—

now, now let's take that scenario and amplify it to say, now you have an Amazon bestselling book that you could lead with in your LinkedIn outreach. Right? Hey, I'd love to talk to you about our services. I think what you do is really cool. Before we talk, why don't you read a free copy of my book? Here's a link. Just download it. You can read about me. And I'll ping you in a couple days to see what you think. How about if I'm an Amazon bestselling author and I reach out to you and say, hey, I've got a podcast, I like to interview people in your industry, would you like, would you be willing for me to feature you on my podcast? Right now you're, now you're drawing people toward you. You're not chasing after everybody, but because of the level of trust that you've built for yourself as an authority, people are starting to come towards you because you're different. I think that's where a book happens, because in our minds we know that the threshold of creating a book with a publisher is higher than starting a podcast or sending out a video or doing a webinar or whatever else you do. Those are easy.

Yeah. Makes sense. I, I think the, the certainly trust, and then I think the word that you used, which is kind of a takeaway for me, is amplification or amplifier. Yeah, I, I think that, that, that was a really good word to use, is it can amplify the other channels that you really are, are deciding, right?

Yeah.

You know, um, I actually, no joke, before we jumped on this podcast, uh, and for my podcast, we have, um, interviews and then also do little 5 to 10 minute, uh, podcast. And I just recorded one today, no joke, and it's called Back to Analog. And I have been doing so much more the last 6 months on paper, on paper specifically, and being— and that includes reading physical books. I, I had for a period of time, and I think it made, made sense, um, was listening to more books, um, on Audible. I think it's fine, um, in general. But I, I thought back, every book that has had a transformative effect in my life, I read physically. And I actually went back and tried to think, is there a book— and I went in through my, my Kindle library and in my Audible library and tried to think, is there a book that I've read on Kindle the actual Kindle, um, or listened that has had a transformative impact. And I don't think that it has. I can't— I couldn't call one. Look, I recognize that, you know, people have preferences of, of, of, you know, where they consume, you know, content. And, you know, you have a book, you probably put it on Audible and you put it in PDF form and, and, and put it on Kindle. And I, I get that, but I guess I find it interesting in the age of AI and technology. There was a few years ago that I really thought like Barnes Noble was gonna go, go under. Like, I really thought like physical books was like, it's— they're done, you know? And I think a lot of people thought that way with like advent of Kindle, etc. And I don't know this for sure. I'm sure you have a— this is a really long question, but I'm getting to your thoughts on— it seems like there's almost been a resurgence of physical books in the marketplace in general. Is— am I wrong in assuming that?

I don't think so. I don't have the stats behind it. You know, I was in— I was in radio for a long time, and when podcasting first came out, radio was dead, right? Radio was dying. TV's dead. There is something intrinsic about holding a physical book. It's a tactile aspect that you don't get with the— it's hard to do this with a Kindle. Bend it, you know.

Yeah.

Um, and, and I think even in, even in the younger generations, as they start maturing, they go back to the old school.

Yeah.

And I don't have data on it, but no, I think, I think you're, you're right on. I think physical books are going to be around for a very long time. I'm not a— I mean, we publish in, in Kindle as well, in electronic. We do it all because you got— but there, there's nothing. I mean, here's my question that I ask people, Bradley: how many ebooks do you have on your computer, and where are they? Good luck. But if you look at your bookshelf and you're right, it's an asset, it's a, it's a library, it's a resource. You can go and you can pull it out. And there's something about the physical nature. And that's why, as we teach our clients about marketing, it is, yeah, draw them in online, mail it to them offline.

Hmm.

If you have a signed copy of somebody's book, it is sacrilegious to throw it away.

Yeah, you just keep it. You just don't throw it away. That's so true.

Yeah. So true. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have the stats, but physical books are going to be around for a very long time.

Yeah, I think so. I think so. Michael, people want to connect with you. Where would you point them to?

Paperbackexpert.com. So it's our website, it's a hub of all things Michael. You can find lots of free resources there, learn about our process, connect with me. paperbackexpert.com.

We— our name on our podcast is Above the Business, and it's a nod to Gerber's book, um, The E-Myth, where he talked about Hey, we need to work on the business, not in it. And I agree with that. I just think that there's a third dimension, which is on, in, and above. And I think that when people listen to a podcast, they're above the business, at least for a brief moment. What do you think working above the business means to you?

I love that idea. It is, um, I love that because it reminds me of thinking time, which is what I try to do every week. And it's, it's getting me— I don't have to be thinking about a problem in my business, right? It's getting me into this extra sphere. Covey would talk about you bring two people together trying to solve an issue, there's a third alternative usually that comes up. And I think that's really, to me, as I think above the business, that's what it is. I'm not working on the business. I may be working on myself. I may just be thinking about whatever. But the more I grow, the more perspective I get on just life, it impacts my business even if I'm not thinking about my business. That's how I would— that's a very long answer, but I think that's what it means to me.

I think it's great. I mean, I specifically believe that weekly thinking time is an example of working above the business. I mean, there are other examples to that, but I do believe weekly 60-minute thinking time is an example of working above the business. You know, I think that A couple things that really stand out to me, I kind of always circle on my page things that really stand out. You mentioned trust and credibility several times, and then the book is an amplifier to the other things that you're doing in the marketing. I think also too, there is really a lot of limiting beliefs. I'm too busy. Who am I to be writing a book, right? I'm not— I, you know, I hear you, but I'm not the authority figure in the marketplace. And you can get into this, this idea, this mindset that, you know, you're not the person to be to to, to be writing that. And so I think you did a great job of kind of dispelling some of those beliefs. Michael, appreciate you coming on the podcast.

Thanks, Bradley, appreciate it. It's been fun.

Um, to, to that, uh, well, I guess I've already done the outro, so I'll just give a shout out to our sponsors. Shout out to our podcast sponsors: Autopilot Recruiting, Coach B Consulting, Today at Pro and Club Capital. Look, if you want to get ahead of the tax bill, the tax man in 2025, and really be able to use your financials to be able to make better decisions in your business, go to club.capital and book a no-obligation demo. You know, I mentioned on there that I'm going back to analog. And I think what matters is the quality of the tools and the software that you use. And if you're an insurance agency owner and you haven't checked out TodayApp, I really encourage you to do that. Go to todayapppro.com. They're going to sync seamlessly with your corporate-approved CRM, put it in all in one place that maybe you pick up the scripts from Coach P Consulting and plug it right into your portal. Go to todayapppro.com. todayapppro.com. If you've been in business any amount of time, you know how valuable your team is. We believe fundamentally that your team, or that business is a team sport. We believe— that's one of our maxims— is that your team is one of the greatest assets in your business, and business is a team sport. If you want help in recruiting, I have talked to so many business owners that were struggling with recruiting, and they're trying to wear all these different hats and do all these different things. And they finally said, okay, I'm going to reach out to TodayUp. And then they come back— excuse me, sorry team, that's wrong, I gotta go back. I said TodayUp, but it's Autopilot. I have spoken recently with so many business owners that have wore so many different hats. They're so busy and they finally say, okay, I'm going to call Autopilot Recruiting. They do and they come back and they say, I wish I'd have made that phone call sooner. If that's you, go to autopilotrecruiting.com, autopilotrecruiting.com. Speak with someone on their team to see how they can set you up with a personalized one-to-one recruiter. It's going to help you to recruit for your business, to help you be able to build and develop a team so that you can scale your business. Go to autopilotrecruiting.com. You know, in this time of year, it's the transfer portal for college football, and players are moving different places. And you see former 5-star and 4-star players that are moving to different, you know, teams around the country. And one of the things that I think about is not just the NIL money, but I think about development. I think about the development of the team, and you gotta wonder what has their development been? Is that the reason why they're leaving? For most of them, admittedly, it's probably not. I recognize that. But what if your team doesn't feel like they're actually getting the development and the attention that they need? They decide to go somewhere else. Well, if you work with Coach P, not only are you going to get some coaching and training, but also so is your team. Twice a week, they're going to be getting coaching from not only David himself, but also to hear from David's team. Go to coachpconsulting.com. Coach P consulting dot com. Art of One. You have a book inside of you. Go out there, decide to put a book together. Till next episode, lead well and go be great.