Episode 455: Redesigned.Business with Nick Berry

Welcome to another episode of the Above the Business podcast.

My name is Bradley Hamner, your host. On today's episode, we have Nick Berry. So Nick and I connected several months ago and we both shared, and we both shared that we felt like that we should be on each other's podcast. He's the host of the Business Owner's Journey podcast, which I have to say, I really actually like the name of his podcast because I do believe a lot of things are the journey. You know, we talk about, I I believe there's the Rainmaker to Architect journey that's obviously within my program. And so it, it really is the journey of being a business owner. Nick has had a 20-plus year record of building award-winning businesses. He has been on the Inc. 5000 Fastest Growing Companies list. And there's a lot of things that Nick and I are very much aligned with. Uh, we think about operating systems very similarly, that we think about alignment in the business. He even has the Business Alignment System. And there's while we may use different language and verbiage with it, I think one thing that you're going to see that's similar in this podcast is the fact that we've got to be able to get the business out of our head and we got to have alignment within our teams. I think you're going to pick up several tidbits of things that you can take away in your business right away. Without further ado, here's my conversation with Nick Berry.

Nick Berry, welcome to the Above the Business podcast.

Thank you, man. I appreciate it.

Great to have you with us. Well, uh, we always start with background and origin story. I'd love to know how small business owners and entrepreneurs got their start. So once you take people back on your journey, how did you get, uh, started and get to where you are today?

By accident. Um, it was, uh, it's actually— the story's gotten to be really long now, but I'll try to keep it relatively short, but I, I went into business for myself basically right out of college. Um, graduated in '02, started my first— got a job, was a terrible employee, realized like I'm gonna have to do something different and kind of make my own way. Nick's gonna have to be in charge of Nick. And so I bought a little like Smoothie Bar Pro shop inside of a gym. Smoothie King is what it was. Um, and then opened another, and, um, you know, that ended up taking a few years and didn't really go anywhere, but I was learning what to do. And so, um, then I got some other opportunities. This was in the fitness industry, and, um, a partner and I kind of figured out a few different ways. This is like before there was CrossFit, right? So this is like 2007, and my partner and I figured out some, uh, different ways to— different strategies that we could apply in building a personal training business, and that no one else was doing. And so, you know, we were doing, uh, things that now are like commonplace. So group training, EFT billing, annual agreements for, for personal training. And we started— we did really well with it. We started to get a lot of attention for it, and then some other people in the industry were coming to us and saying, hey, like, you know, I'll pay you to tell me how to do that. And so we became consultants and ended up building a portfolio of companies where we would have these other— what we now we would call them creators, um, but that wasn't a thing in like '07, '08, '09. They, they were— but it was the same concept. Somebody who had a skill or an idea or a product that they, that they knew could be something, but they didn't know how to run a business. So they would come to us and we started doing, uh, like they could take part of our compensation. We could structure it so it would be an equity. So we built this portfolio of companies, and I mean, at one time we had as many as 8 operating brands. Simultaneously. Um, and it, it just took off. And so for, you know, up until I sold, um, my, my main business in February of 2024, you know, that's what I did. We started two franchises like that. We had, um, the fastest growing personal training franchise in the world for several years, uh, recognized on the Inc. 5000, Entrepreneur Magazine by like we got some recognition, best places to work, for just like going. And also just started kind of like by accident. I say it tongue-in-cheek, but that wasn't a plan that we had when we started. Um, but we were doing, uh, a portfolio company and, um, you know, working with creators before. Those were things that I heard anybody talk about.

Yeah.

So we did, we did all those things wrong first.

What do you do now?

Well, now I am, uh, for the last year since I sold my main company, I've got a couple other like companies that I'm, I work at the strategic level with, but I'm not doing anything operational. My podcast, uh, The Business Owner's Journey, has taken up the majority of the time, although like I have no aspiration to be a a professional podcaster. That was more of a means to an end. Like, I, I know I need to figure out like what my next chapter was going to be, so I thought, you know, I'm going to be talking to people like you, like, because I want to have a conversation. I want to hear what you're thinking, and, uh, you're the kind of people that I want to be around. And so I'm like, why don't I just like do a podcast, record the conversations? If it helps other people, great. So I started the podcast, um, And then just recently, a few months ago, I launched Redesigned.Business, which is where I'm consulting with other, other small businesses who are, you know, they're, you know, the, the hump that they're trying to get over where they're trying to go from like the producer to more of a leader. They've gotten beyond startup, they've survived, but now they're trying to like turn it into something and grow it, scale. And so I I'm working with them to kind of guide them through that process and use my methodology to smooth the path out for them as well as I can.

Talk to me about when you were growing that business, if you can share some of the numbers. Where did you guys get, get that core business to with the franchises? Like, where do you— where were you in top line revenue? Where were you in you know, profit EBITDA numbers? Uh, where was the business at that point?

So the— I think the peak of the, the management entity of the one, um, the umbrella company, the, the holding company, was $4.4 million, I believe. Uh, it was right, right around that. Um, And so, you know, then we're— that's probably 2015, '16. Had about 45 people on our staff. And 45 people on staff with this much management experience across the board.

Yeah.

So it was like, there was a lot a lot to be learned there. We were like a sieve in certain places, it felt like anyway. Yeah, but that's where— I mean, you know, I've chatted a little bit about EOS. Like, EOS, uh, saved us about that time.

Yep. Yeah.

Um, yeah, yeah. Um, and I think for, you know, we had— I mentioned us being— starting the franchise and, um, the speed of growth there. We did We signed 183 units in the first year, um, which was like—

in the first year, what year was the first year?

2012.

2012, okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean, that's like, uh, light speed.

So you held that company from 2012 to 2024? Basically, right?

Yes, that company, uh, yes, we started out as a franchise, grew really fast, and then in '16 unwound the franchise, turned it into a license. And that's— and it was a license through '24.

Yeah, I'm curious, uh, because for some of our listeners I had never really, well, it wasn't ever in my periphery for some reason for me to even care about the difference between franchising and licensing. And so this was helpful for me. You tell me if I'm incorrect here. Okay. So I'm dipping my toe into something that I somewhat know about. But, but not, but certainly not intimately like you do. On the franchising side, I'm getting not only an operating system, but I'm, and I'm getting the name. I'm getting the name and the operating system. So I'm getting Fast Signs, the name, and I'm getting the Fast Signs operating system. This is how you market. This is, you know, this is the way to do things, so to speak. Okay. Where with licensing, I'm getting the name primarily, um, but I'm not getting the operating system. Is that, is, is that correct, or is it the other way around?

No, I mean, the— so the difference really probably lies more in like the depth of contracts, like in the, the legal aspect. So, um, what you described is— could, could be the case, um, but they're gonna— within a franchise or a license, there's some latitude as to what they're going to require, um, and, and what they wouldn't require. So, um, your description of a franchise, theoretically, like, that's pretty close. They, they want it to be cookie cutters. It's much less so now than it was probably 15 years ago because, you know, now there are, um, you know, you can go and find someone who will, uh, an attorney who will basically— you can kind of turnkey a franchise. And so there are a lot— the barrier to entry is a lot lower than it used to be. And, you know, there are a lot of, of failed businesses because of that. Now, they might have failed otherwise also, but right, they are buying the concept of a franchise that you just described, right? That's what they think. And it's not that so much anymore. It's much looser. As far as a license, the way that I look at them is more like, um, a franchise, uh, they're selling it to you, they want you to do it this way. A license is more you have the opportunity, you could do it this way. So when we did, we, um, backed out of the franchise— or not back, we unwound it, like we did it legally, properly, um, but we did so because we wanted to loosen the restrictions Like, we figured out that for us and for our market, the administrative burden that comes along with maintaining a franchise system the way that we had launched it was beyond— it wasn't in our best interest, and it wasn't what our clients wanted.

Yeah.

So we would— we gave them our, uh, our brand package also, but we didn't require that they use it. So that would be like— that's an example of the difference in the two. A franchisor is going to be like, you, you you got to use it. Yeah, but when we went to license, we, you know, you could use it, you don't have to.

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. What were you guys selling the licensing for?

Um, well, so it's, uh, now it is anywhere from $500 a month to, uh, $1,000.

Oh, you said you had it on a subscription? Yeah.

Yeah, so basically we replace a royalty with a flat rate subscription. Yeah, and the upfront, um, at different times has been, uh, $2,500 to $10,000.

Yeah. Um, what was the impetus to sell? I mean, this is, uh, well, first of all, what, what was— so at its— at one point you said $4.4 million. Um, what was it doing, percentage of that in, in profit?

Um, I'm gonna say we were 15, a little 15 to 20 every year. Yeah.

What was the, what was the final straw that was the impetus to be able to sell?

So coming out of the pandemic, um, I, you know, so we did like some of our best work through the pandemic. We were, um, you know, it's one of the proudest things from my background is being able to say we got through the pandemic with, um, our clients, and we're in the fitness industry, so I mean, they got destroyed. Yeah. And we had no— not none of our, um, coaching clients closed permanently.

Wow.

And yeah, I mean, we— it was all hands on deck for a couple of years, and it— I mean, we were redlined. And so coming out of that, I think I was I don't remember exactly when it hit, but it was like, uh, I was just kind of shot, exhausted, and maybe, and some type of burnout. I'm, I still not exactly sure, um, the best way to describe it, but it's like my motivation, um, wasn't what it had been before. It wasn't so obvious that I was just like, eff it all. Yeah. But I know now, looking back, like, I was not at 100%. So anyway, I, um, you know, we kind of come out of that and I'm just like, I, I've got to, you know, step back and, and chill and get kind of get my head, um, clear and figure out like, you know, what's next. And so I wasn't looking to sell at that time. I just, um, you know, that business was established enough. I was— it was okay for me to not sleep at the wheel, but, um, coast maybe for a little while. And so, uh, about that same time, I had a former employee who I, I had worked with us. He, he had left, um, you know, taken another opportunity, but we stayed in touch. He's actually someone that had asked me years before if I would ever be interested in selling I told him, I, you know, I'm not looking to sell, but, you know, you would be the kind of buyer that I would— you're the kind of person that I would want to have it. Yep. Um, he comes back and he says, hey, can we have that conversation? So, um, yeah, let's talk. And so this is the end of 2023, and, uh, the conversation, it— I mean, everything fell into place. It went, it went the way that you shouldn't expect it to go. Um, with things just kind of coming together really quickly and smooth. And, uh, but that, that's what happened. And yeah, a few months of conversation with him, we had a deal, and that was that.

So how, um, there, there's so many— at an exit, there's so many different options that come, Nick, with, you know, is it all cash up front? Is there an earnout? Is there equity financing? What are you able to share in terms of how you guys structured, number one, the purchase price? How did you guys come to the agreement of that? Typically, you know, for people listening, if you're less than a million in profit, you're gonna average maybe around 3 times. 3 times profit on a sell, maybe. And then if you get above a million in profit, you know, that's where you can start pushing maybe 5, 6, you know, plus depending on the business that you're in. Nick, what was, so that's one. And then the second is like the terms of the deal, like how the deal is actually structured. So one's the price, hey, you're going to buy it for $100 or you're going to buy it for a million dollars. And then there's the terms, you know, what's that actually going to look like, the structure of the money. What was it—

what did it look like for you guys?

So it—

the—

our valuation, what we did was pretty— it holds pretty close to what you just described. Um, we were at like 2, right at 2 of the seller's discretionary earnings. And, um, it was, uh, just a full asset purchase. We did do a, a long transition period, um, like basically the, the entire remainder of the year last year, so about 10 months. But that was structured like— that was made to be, um, very— I guess like it was very easy for me to do, right? It was a pretty light load extended over a longer period of time, which I was absolutely fine with. I was not in a hurry. Um, what else did you ask in there? Did I answer everything?

Yeah, terms of deal. So you were at— yeah, and for those of you, uh, typically less than a million profit is going to refer— be referred to as seller discretionary earnings. They basically need to normalize your owner pay and things of that nature. Um, if you're over a million, you get into the fancy term of EBITDA, basically.

Um, and, and we did— we— so that where you ask also where— how did we come to that? And so that's the— out of this portfolio of companies, um, you I've— that was the last one remaining out of the portfolio of companies. And we've had like a couple of the companies that just floundered and didn't do anything. And then all of the rest of them, there's been a transaction of some sort where I've exited. And so there are— that was the fourth one that like I consider to be a successful exit. And not to say that all the other ones that didn't fail, were unsuccessful. It's just, I feel like, I, I feel like it's important to qualify the exits that we're talking about because they just, it just kind of gets thrown around loosely. So like, that is the fourth time that I've done it the way that you set out to do it, right? Yeah. You know, because, you know, and probably a lot of people listening know, there's a big difference in, um, getting out and getting your return versus just getting out.

Yeah, sure, sure. Yeah, yeah, you, you can, you can typically be able to sell most of the time, uh, but actually having a, a, a life-changing exit is— can be a very different, uh, thing. I'm curious, and I, I fundamentally believe that the thing that an acquirer will oftentimes find valuable about a business to be able to buy also becomes and makes that business enjoyable to own. And then it gives you options if you're able to sell it. But for those of you that are listening that maybe have a business, maybe a captive insurance agency that you're not able to sell, you may be thinking, well, hey, good for him. You know, he's been able to have an exit. I'm not going to be able to do that. But I do think this next question becomes valuable because then you learn, well, what are the things that you all did to be able to build a company that would be attractive to an acquirer? What were some of the things that you learned about actually building a sustainable growing business that really kind of comes down into, you know, your maybe business principles and philosophies of what it actually takes to, to grow a small business?

Yeah, um, and, and I think you're gonna like this because I think when I— that's what, um, kind of got my attention out of your— what you— some of your content was like, man, that he's saying the same things that I said. Like, I like that. Um, so yeah, I, I built my what I call my alignment system, this methodology that I've used over time, uh, and it's got like the three legs. There's leadership growth, there's strategy or strategic vision. And then the third is your operating system, the business operating system.

Yep.

Um, and so those are the three, the three components. Like, if you're, if you're trying to travel this path and go from producer to leader, um, or, you know, get your business off the ground and, and turning it, turning it into something that goes beyond you trading time for money like I call that the producer to leader pathway. And you're there, you cannot do that without these 3 ingredients. Like, your leadership is going to have to grow, and you're going to have to have strategy in place, and you're going to have to have some type of operating system. You have to execute the plan. So, uh, so that's, that's what everything that I do is built around. It's come in, um, you know, determine, talk to this business owner wherever they're at and, and kind of gauge where they're trying to get to, and then like tailor the plan around using those three, uh, that three-legged stool to help them get there. Yeah.

Yeah. Uh, when, for your own journey, but also whenever working with other small business owners, what are the things that you see the most, maybe the biggest gap or area, uh, of opportunity for most of the businesses that you're, you're around, either the ones that you've owned or even people that you've been able to help? Where, where are some of the biggest areas that you see of opportunity for improvement?

So I think that there is a nearly predictable path, right? There's— there are these fundamental things that you're going to have to, uh, learn and understand along the way, right? You have to learn how to find more prospective buyers. You have to find how to compel— figure out how to compel people to, like, transact with you. You have to figure about how to make good use of the currency that you take in from those transactions. You have to be able to do those things efficiently. You have to be able to influence people. Like, those are things, skills that you have to acquire or like go into business with already. And so, I think recognizing that there's some predictability to it, then if there's predictability to it, then find the people who can— who already know what to expect. Go to them and let them tell— like, prepare you and anticipate this journey as much as possible. I think it is like— it's— I mean, being in business is lonely. It's, uh, you could call it scary. I don't think anybody would argue with that. It's going to be difficult under the best of circumstances. It's just not the kind of thing that you feel that you should have to stay in on your own and do it alone. There are plenty of people who are familiar with that path and the predictability of it and that can equip you. And I will stop short of saying that you can like speedrun the process, but you can absolutely move much faster if you will find people who have done what you're trying to do. And lean into it. Go get advice, whatever form that it needs to be is fine. But do not sit back and just think, you know, I, I'm pretty sharp, I can figure it out, right? Yeah, I'm okay taking my lumps, I'll figure it out. You'll still get your lumps even if you're getting guidance from other people, but I feel like that's the— that's choosing to do it the hard way, and that's very unnecessary, and it's really expensive.

Um, I— this doesn't mean what I'm about to say makes business this easy, okay? Matter of fact, I was just venting a little bit to my own consultant, my own coach, um, earlier today about a kind of a stuck that I have. Even though I know exactly what needs to be done, I've been working on it, and I'm still frustrated by this by this one, by this one thing. So I think it can be very straightforward, okay? I think it can be— business can be simple, okay? It does not mean it's easy. Matter of fact, I think just because it's simple, we tend to think it's going to be easy, and that's actually what makes it even harder. I think business is really, really hard.

Really hard.

And the tendency that we think that it's going to be easy ends up making us feel like, oh my gosh, like, is something wrong with me? Because everybody is making this look like it's easy.

No, no, no.

Simple does not mean easy. So I like the analogy of Legos and puzzles, that business can be closer to Legos Meaning I open the box, I spread all the Lego pieces out on the, on the kitchen table. Oh my gosh, I don't even know where to begin. Oh, I'll find the instruction manual. Find the instruction manual and it says, go find this piece and go find this piece and put them together. Then go find this piece and put it together and you can kind of begin to follow it. Whereas puzzles, it's, we drop it down on the table, we look at the front of the box, This is what it's supposed to look like. Good luck. And then, you know, like we celebrate some wins along the way. Hey, I found two corner— I found the corner pieces.

Like we got the four corner pieces.

Okay. All right. Well, we're starting to make progress. And so I think that oftentimes our experience of business is like puzzles, but there is, to your point, a way to make it more like a Lego set. Like put, follow the order of these things. What in your own experience, again, regardless of if it's your own companies or other businesses that you've worked with, what are some of those Lego pieces that you fundamentally believe? You obviously already mentioned a handful of them a minute ago, but what else is it that you feel like, hey, this is what I really believe. Makes it look this way versus like a puzzle?

Yeah, so, um, I'm big on frameworks. So, you know, I can probably trace just about anything that I, um, that I recommend back to like whether there are 3 things or there are 2 things or there are 4 things or whatever. But yeah, um, so I think that there are, um, so let's talk about the, um, the operating system. You know, that's broken down into mine and I I think is broken down into, you know, by department functions— marketing, sales, operations, finance. And then within marketing, you know, you've got your marketing activities, you've got your activity cadence, you've got your measurement and reporting. With your sales, you've got your sales pipeline, you've got your sales conversation, you've got your also your measurement and reporting. Operationally. You've got organizational charts so everyone knows, like, their— how they all fit together. But then you've got role clarity for positions. You've got a recruitment process. You've got a development process. You've got a management process. Like, all of those are things that I feel like can kind of be— you can, you can distill them down to a few simple guidelines And it kind of gives, uh, someone who— it gives perspective to anyone, but someone who's not done it before kind of has an idea like, okay, there's a method to the madness here, right? It's not just like— so it would help us when you talk about the Legos. I think I said this before, it's like, I'm— I totally see what you're saying. It's like, okay, you need a 2x4 and a, and a 2x8, or however they would reference them in the instructions, right? It's like super easy to find those. If you— even if you want a certain color, like, it's going to be super easy to find them. Versus the puzzle pieces where it's like, holy hell, everything that's got some red on it, are you kidding me?

Yeah.

So you can kind of take that same perspective into something like creating position descriptions, like what I call role clarity. Like, that could be really nebulous and and just done really poorly from scratch. But if you can give someone just a few guidelines like, look, you need to, you need to outline these boundaries, you need to include these are the absolute dos or absolute don'ts, you need to include like here's how we communicate, and you're good to start, right? So I just took all of those thousand pieces of, uh, puzzle pieces and maybe just helped me get it distilled down to a few. And I think for, especially for a business owner who has been in like startup mode where they were the producer and they've been hunting and killing and they don't know any other way, and we're going to try to get them to like pull their head up for a second and start to build the business alongside it, those activities, you, you almost have to give them that bare bones version. So they can like continue to hunt and kill and do what's got them there. But also let it be a reasonable change for them to make to start dividing their attention.

Yeah.

To, to building business infrastructure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Uh, where, where are you guys going with your portfolio now? Like, what's your, what's your 3-year vision? I mean, I, I like to think that you need to have a blueprint for your business, and your blueprint is your 3-year vision, your 1-year objectives, your 90-day priorities. We'll, we'll usually say that in shorthand, your 3-year, 1-year, 90. Um, but what, what's, what's, what's your 3-year vision? What are you, uh, hoping to, to, uh, be able to accomplish the next 3 years?

I don't have an answer. That, I mean, I think it's a great question, and I think that's, you're like, the, the idea is, is to have an answer. And that's what I started, um, you know, when I sold And then I got into the podcast. I was like, number one, the one thing I don't want to just default into doing what I was doing before. Yep. If I'm going to get back into it, that's fine, but it's going to be intentional and with thought. And so I created a lot of space for myself. I've kind of gone through all of the, you know, revisiting my strengths and weaknesses and interests and what I like to do and all that stuff. And, and it's landing back near what, uh, what it looks like before. And that— and I'm okay with that, but I'm not in a hurry to paint out too far, uh, out of a horizon.

Yeah.

So like by the end of this year, you know, I have more clarity, and that's— I'm looking for more opportunities, uh, with businesses who are in that place. Like, I'm just doing the consulting right now. I'm not building the portfolio at the moment. I want to see the opportunities for building the portfolio through this set of eyes, uh, and not through like the, the way that I used to look at them. So I want to— I'm kind of like really trying to go slow at it, and which makes me nervous, right?

It's against, it's against everything that you've you've basically done over all these years, right? Right.

Yes. And it's probably— it's not something that I would necessarily tell someone to do either.

Sure, sure, sure, sure. Well, but there, there's a, there's a time and a place to be able to sit at the table of success and then decide when the— when you're going to make the next move on the chessboard.

Okay.

And, uh, and, and I think that's wise to do that, um, to kind of sit back and wait and then decide what you're going to jump all into, you know, because there's— let's be honest with you, I think it's Hermosi says, you know, strategy is, is limited resources against unlimited options. And I think that's definitely the case. There's a lot of things you could do. It's just what are— what am I actually going to decide to step into? That's great, Nick. People want to connect with you personally and want to find out a little bit more and kind of watch your journey and learn a little bit about your podcast, where would you point them to?

Yeah, go to— you can go to redesigned.business and you can see like that's the, the consulting that I've, that I've been talking about. And you can go to nickbarry.info also. That's my personal site that has— it's got the podcast information on it. You can sign up for my newsletter there. Um, redesign.business. You can get some information, you can schedule a call with me, and we can talk about if I'm able to help you. Um, or if I can't, then I'm happy to try to aim you to someone who I think might be able to help you.

So awesome, Nick. Great having you on the podcast, my man.

Thanks, Bradley. I appreciate it.

Well, I hope you enjoyed that episode. I think you'll see a lot of the— with what Nick talks about with his business alignment system, and obviously what I share about the The Blueprint Operating System. And listen, I want to have Nick on because even though a lot of the things that we do are very similar, I think that even if it helps impact one person out there to be able to say, you know what, I've continued to hear this, whether it's Nick sharing it or Bradley sharing it, or I read, you know, Traction and look up something like EOS, that there's got to be something out there to do in this. And for me, I heard it for years. But nothing ever changed until ultimately you began to implement things in the business. Big shout out to our podcast partners: Autopilot Recruiting, Coach P Consulting, Club Capital, and TodayApp Pro. Look, you know that your team is so valuable. They are, you know, they give you one of the greatest sources of leverage in the business. We also know that we always kind of have to always be recruiting, but it's really hard to do that in practice. Autopilot Recruiting can absolutely help you, help you out in that area, especially the part that we all really hate to do with the posting, the managing of the, of the leads, the prospects, uh, that potentially could come on to your team. And that part of it is so valuable, yet it's the most tedious part of recruiting. Autopilot can help you to do just that, and you're going to love your recruiter. Autopilotrecruiting.com. The most valuable investment that you can make is in yourself. No matter how much you try to retain A-players, people will ultimately kind of come and go. And so really, what's the thing that's always the constant in a business? It's always you. And how do you pour into yourself? Get yourself in a curated community? Well, Coach P can help you to do that. CoachPConsulting.com. Let him know that you heard about him on the Above the Business podcast. CoachPConsulting.com. And What's unique about his program is going to give you coaching and consulting for your team as well. CoachBConsulting.com. You know, I've shared it on here before, but I had my degree in finance. Yet whenever I started my business, I had no idea what I was doing regarding P&Ls and balance sheets and cash flow statements, how to make decisions off of it. I saw it as a once-a-year thing. And if you're like me, but you really want to get on top of your taxes, you want to get on top of your financials so you can, you know, make more money, make the right investments in people and in marketing, Club Capital can help you. Go to club.capital, book a no-obligation demo. Let them show you exactly how they've been able to help thousands of business owners around the country. Club.capital. I use a lot of different tools and software, and if you're an insurance agency owner, you can consolidate all of those down and get away from all the spreadsheets by working with Today App Pro. Go to todayapppro.com. Todayapppro.com. All right, everyone, till next episode, lead well and go be great.