Episode 505: Leadership, Vision, and Mindset with Ron Alford of Southwestern Consulting

Welcome to another episode of the Above the Business podcast. My name is Bradley Hamner, your host. On this podcast, we help you get above the business, begin to think like an architect, and design the blueprint to grow your small business. On today's episode with Ron Alford, he is a referral from one of my members and good friends, Tyler. This episode is fantastic. We end up talking about vision. We talk about leadership. We talk about how do you navigate challenges within your team. And we talk about the topic that honestly, just, it's never something that we couldn't talk about enough. And that is the mindset that you need to succeed in business. Without further ado, here's my conversation with Ron Alford. Ron Alford, welcome to the Above the Business podcast.

Bradley, good to be here, man. I've been looking forward to being a part of this.

Excited to have you. We'd love to start with background and origin story. I think it's fascinating about how people have arrived at where they are today. So take our listeners back a little bit about you and your, your experience and background.

Yeah, happy to. I'll give you the brief version first, and then if you want to explore deeper, happy to. So I'm a military kid, moved around a lot growing up, uh, ended up on a little island in Alaska for high school called Adak, and then came back to the mainland, Greater Seattle, and, uh, was planning to go into boot camp like my big brothers. Both of them went to the Marine Corps, and, you know, who doesn't want to follow the path of the, the big siblings? And, and I, I took a massive left turn. Literally right before boot camp was to start, a buddy of mine from church said, man, we got this crazy summer job. We're going to sell educational books door-to-door, uh, to help kids. And It's this 100% commission. You gotta find your own host family to live with. You live in a different part of the nation. Do you wanna do it? And like, it just the worst sounding thing you could imagine, like face-to-face rejection, 80+ hours a week. But it was the perfect timing. It hit me right between the eyes. 'Cause I just, the idea of a 4-year commitment into the Marine Corps, was a little daunting at the moment. And the idea of doing this 12-week door-to-door internship first. And so long story short, that was my introduction to Southwestern. That was 32 years ago. I'm still with the same family of companies, very different part of Southwestern now. Now we're on more of the consulting and coaching business side of what we do, but still same family companies, still living in Seattle, but travel to Nashville a ton for work. Personally, blended family. I was a single dad for years with twin boys and then married my wife, Desiree, and her 3-year-old daughter at the time I've adopted. She had never met her biological dad. And so now we— she's 14. So all of our kids are teenagers. And yeah, we have a very imperfect blended family.

Love that. We— I'm a big believer of abundance. Within business, and we both have a heart to be able to help small business owners, entrepreneurs, and, and leaders to be able to, to, to grow. That's why I love having people like yourself on, because we can talk about similar topics and similar themes around business, and we may come at it— we're going to come at it maybe from a slightly different perspective because of experiences and such. The first thing I want to talk about is I'll often say mindset, skill set, tool set. And so I want to start with mindset, and I want, want you to share kind of your thoughts around, and we were coming into Q4 2025. And so somebody already maybe is even thinking about 2026. And so depending on where someone is right now, they may have had an incredible 2025 and there also could have been a very bumpy road this year for, for their business. And so can you just talk about the importance of the business owner's mindset going into the latter part of this year, going into 2026, and how that affects everything, no matter how good your strategy is.

Oh, we are aligned, man. I love hearing your, your language around it. I, I love that you started with that. It is, to me, it is everything. It is the beginning and the end. You know, I, no matter what you're, who, who you're married to, what your kid situation, your financial situation, your business opportunity, any of that, how we look at it, how we receive it, determines our joy, determines our fulfillment. And so I, I know all your listeners are well-read, they're, they're very familiar, they're all quite educated on mindset. And at the same time, I think we, we have barely scratched the surface as to how important the ability to influence our thoughts is. And most of your listeners, I'm guessing, are busy. They fill up their calendars. They, they, you know, you wake up, you got the kids, you got the nonprofit, you got the fitness goals, the, you know, you're running 100 miles an hour, you're jumping from task to task to task. And a lot of times we forget just kind of the whole art of slowing down to speed up. And I think that's, that's essential. That's one thing I've really learned about myself, but also working with a lot of leaders over the years is The days where we slow down and get our head right and our heart right before we jump into the calendar and the inbox, man, we're ready. We breathe, our— the tone of our voice changes, we ask better questions, we listen more intentionally, we remember things, our memory is crisp, we're so much sharper and more present and authentic and all the courageous and our willpower stronger and, and, and The other days when I make the mistake, or we humans make the mistake of just jumping into the text message, you know, the inbox, social media, email, you know, and just calendar, man, we are so reactive. We get critical, we get judgmental. So that all comes back to mindset. I think the last thought I'll say is the whole self-talk affirmations. I always think of them as truths, right? Us humans tend to run with a lie. We can believe a story or a lie and we can kind of run with it. And, and so that, that the ability to have proper healthy self-talk leads to our self-image, which, you know, any of your listeners that are obviously driven to get great results, which that's every, every one of us, we will never ever outperform our self-image. Like we can bandaid crap all day, manipulate things. We can, but, but essentially we are our beliefs and that, that's our self-image. And so the mindset is what influences the deep down beliefs about ourself. Man, I am courageous. I bounce back quick. I love learning about people. I love understanding what it is that makes people tick, which makes me a better listener, you know, or I'm always late. I'm bad with technology. I'm so forgetful. God, I can't stand working with these types of people. All the negative crap that can fill our heads as well.

Uh, there's a lot of different opinions out there. And maybe philosophies around how to start your day. And let's just, let's just call it Monday through Friday as a business. Okay. I mean, let's just say Saturdays and Sundays are unique, especially depending on you have kids and kids' ages and things of that nature, which you've got going on. So let's just talk, let's still talk Monday through Friday for a second. I mean, you've got the Alex Hormozi on one end that says, wake up, drink some water, grab a cup of coffee, flip that laptop open, go. Okay, then on the other side, you have people that are prescribing ice baths, a 5K to run in the morning, affirmations. You do your devotion and you do, you know, you're doing a 4-hour morning routine. Okay, like I'm just trying to paint like this broader— heck yeah. What is, what is your opinion of the things that you have seen principally based that do work?

Yeah, love the question. You know, it's somewhere in between. I would lean more towards number 2, your second example. I really truly believe know thyself, right? That this is a personal thing. I don't think there's one prescription or one morning routine, if you will, that is perfect for everybody. That said, Intentionality and state, our emotional state, is going to affect the way we act and behave. And of course, the results we get. And so I don't know about you, but, but man, the intentions I get ready for, for the day and influencing my emotions, at the end of the day, that's kind of all we do as humans is we try to influence emotions properly, our own and that, and those of others. Our kids, our clients, our prospects, our referral partners, our, you know, staff, our— because the feelings and emotions that the human have lead to the behaviors, the actions. And so, all that to kind of come back to your question in the morning, you know, whether you do the 10-minute example or the 4-hour example you just kind of laid out, I sure as heck better put the phone down. Maybe it's while I'm having my bowl of oatmeal or making a smoothie or just getting 10 minutes of fresh air, something. That allows me to breathe, allows me to visualize my day a little bit. How am I going to react when, when things don't go the way I hoped? How am I going to make it not about me? How am I going to get my heart focused on serving others and in the right place where it's, you know— so if, if some of your listeners are really efficient with those things and can do that in 30, 40 minutes, you know, Boom, good to go. Your morning routine's a little tighter. For some of us, we might need an hour or hour and a half or two to do the workout, to read our book, to do our devotional. That's my thought.

You've mentioned this a couple of times. I almost was going to ask it when you said it the first time because I didn't want to— I don't want to make an assumption of what I know that this means. You said earlier, you said, hey, we got to get our head right and then get our heart right. And you just mentioned it again. What do you mean by getting our heart right for the day? Like, I, I, I, I don't, I don't want to assume like I'm like, I know what, what you're referring to. I feel like I have a pretty good idea of like, all right, what's my mindset going to be and what's my head going to be going into it. But what do you mean by getting my heart right for the day? Yeah.

You know, to me, this is an emotional question because I just think we're, we're all guilty of making it about us. You know, we're imperfect humans and that is. Is such a tendency of ours is to, you know, what's in it for me? And in my belief, the older I get, the more I really— more I believe that wealth in life is about impact. You know, obviously the bank accounts, the cars, the homes, the trophies, those things, there's nothing wrong with any of that. But when we look back, the true wealth is going to be about the lives we touch, the impact we made. The legacy we've left that, you know, whether it's in our own children or our grandchildren, our community, our— so all I have to say is for me, the more I make it about me, the more anxiety I feel, the more I compare, the more I critique, the more I feel doubt and blame. And ugh, the more I slow down and think, who am I working for today? Who do I want to make proud? How can I understand? And, and, and, you know, without getting too kumbaya, I have more compassion for this situation or empathy for this situation, or boy, then, then you're a little more bulletproof. I feel a little more courageous. I just feel like everything shifts. So that would be my example of getting the heart right. Now, for those of your listeners that believe in a higher power, obviously that can be through scripture too. Is how do you pray? How do you have your devotions? How do you get, you know, It can be for that and for other humans on Earth.

Love that. Let's talk about— I mean, I would struggle with answering this question, which is why I'm going to ask it. How do you define leadership?

Well, the first word always is example. You know, I, again, I have 3 teenagers and I just think, man, they are going to forget everything I say, but they're going to watch what I do. So that's number 1. Number 2 is make it about me. In other words, like leadership— a leader has a great way of not having their own agenda. If I'm casting vision, if I'm holding another person accountable, if I'm confronting underperformance, if I'm delivering feedback, all the things leaders are supposed to do, right? You know, that, that the definition of a leader is someone that, that servant leader is such a coined term, right? It's a little, it's become a little cliché.

Yeah.

But they have a way of making it feel like, oh man, this leader really cares about my vision. It's not just their agenda. So it's their example. They're willing to, to, to, you know, lead by example. And then number 2, they really do slow down to try to seek to understand my situation, my role, my drive, my vision, and then align that with the company. They obviously are still running a company, so you have to have the, you know, the P&L and all that, of course. But that's what I'd say.

You know, you mentioned right there alignment. That's actually where I was going to go with my next question is you have— I'm really big on vision. In fact, I think everything in a small business is downhill from the vision that you have for the company. Every decision you make, who you hire, et cetera, what marketing you do, your strategies is all downhill towards some North Star that you're pointing to. And so getting alignment within your team is so critical. And because of technology now, people are able to explore more remote workers. Whether that's fractional team members or even full-time team members. And the beauty of that and at the challenge, and this is not a question around how do you create culture remotely? I mean, that we may can get to that. I'm talking more about how do I get someone who maybe I haven't even met in person yet? I'm a sales rep working in Texas for somebody that has a business in Seattle, Washington. And he has shared with us, this is the big vision. And how do I get that person that has grown up in a different culture, in a different background, had different experiences, to buy into this vision of the company while at the same time trying to make sure that they recognize that they have a vision for their life too, that they want to be able to accomplish? That's a challenge for a business owner. What are your thoughts?

Yeah, yeah, I love the question. I think first realizing none of us are going to be perfect at this. There's no start, you know, it doesn't matter what company you look at around the world, nobody has perfected this. This is a, you know, but, but can we get progress, not perfection? The way you just— the language you just used, I think, is massive in this, right? Because when I listen to a leader in, in Boston, Massachusetts— I'm in Seattle, let's say I'm following someone over there and I've never met them, and if I can tell they're genuine and authentic, immediately I'm attracted to them. And, and obviously we all want to build businesses that attract the right types of people, right? Our retention is terrible then, you know, but, but we're going to keep the people and retain the people that respond to that vision. So if a leader is comfortable in their own skin, they're not trying to be something they're not, they're not being fake, or, um, and then number 2, if, if they're if they're operating from a place of gratitude and appreciation, not ego and arrogance and pride, boy, that's going to keep followers. That's going to help someone feel like, man, this is someone I can follow. They're imperfect. I don't see the world exactly eye to eye. They don't even know me or my wife's name, maybe, but I can still follow this person in a business perspective because I, I, I, there's a likability and a trust there. Because they're genuine. They're, they're, they are, they are who they are. They're not trying to be fake or something they're not. And yeah, I just think that, that's foundational.

Which leads us into one of the bigger, uh, topics I wanted to ask you, and that is the importance of vision. Before we hit record, you, you mentioned this, and I even said it a minute ago, is just how important it is to, for you to have, you know, crafted, obviously we refer to as designed the vision that you want. And certainly when we're talking to business owners, there are some things that are very specific to them. They're taking on an incredible amount of responsibility at times, stress for so many other people that You know, typically the answer that a business owner wants says is something to the effect, I'm sure you've had this experience. I just, just want to grow. I just want to grow. And like, okay, great. But what, like what, where are we shooting for? And they're like, I don't know. I just don't want where I'm at. Okay. I want more than what I have, or I want to get out of this difficult place. How do you help business owners? And maybe what is just your philosophy point of view? Of crafting a vision for the business?

I think some of it is, is understanding who are people— we all have these people that we really respect and look up to throughout life. Some of them we've met, we've broke bread with. It was our grandma, it was our neighbor, it was an old coach, it was an old teacher. Uh, some of them we've only read about, you know, it was Teddy Roosevelt, it was Nelson Mandela, it was Mother Teresa, it was the Apostle Paul, it was So to me, helping someone get really clear on, you know, who are 3, 5, 10 people that you just— now, what are these specific character traits about those humans that you gravitate towards so deeply? Oh, they were generous. They were resilient. They were loyal. They were, you know, compassionate. They were, you know, et cetera. They were appreciative people, et cetera. And then helping someone really kind of write down those principles and those words and whether they create a vision board or some sort of place where they have these words and daily they check in with those words. We, any of us men and women, any adult is defined by our character like that. That is the definition of it. And so are we striving to live into these principles more effectively? And so for me, over the, over my computer screen, you know, I've got a board with people I respect, favorite quotes and mantras and Bible verses and at least once or twice a week when I'm in a little bit of a funk, when I'm a little bit, you know, in a, maybe a valley or a situation like everybody, for me to take a minute and go over and just kind of pray on that board, to put my hand on that board, to breathe in that board, to, it's able to, I'm able to reconnect with the things that matter most to me. We have a, we have a belief internally. Our endurance in life is tied directly to the clarity of our vision. Life requires endurance. Parenting kids, going through a marriage, our health situation, seeing our parents decline. Man, that is— every one of your listeners have had loved ones go through terminal conditions. Seeing the economy, people elected in office we don't love, et cetera. Well, endurance helps us endure through hard things and not get bitter, not cast judgment, not slander. All the crap that divides us. I'm talking enduring principally. Well, our endurance in life is tied directly to how clear our vision is. When our vision is vague, like you said, I just want to grow. Well, that's a nice thing. It's also incredibly vague. So let's, let's slow down and get specific. What does growth look like? You know, when you close your eyes, what does the marriage look like? What is the financial freedom? What does that look like? That usually leads to some great things.

Yeah, I think it was, uh, Keith Cunningham in his book, um, The Road Less Stupid, he said generalizations kill clarity. And I, I totally agree with that. Something's really, really stuck out for me for a long time. So that's good. Mindset, how we show up, getting our head right, getting our heart right, being a leader, somebody that pours into, um, pours into other people, having a clear vision. Even in spite of all of that, there's going to be Toms that were maybe, maybe the company, but I guess I'm asking specifically not necessarily around the company, but around an individual is underperforming. And I think that when you take a leader that really wants to build a great culture, he or she pours into their people. They try to get to know them. They get to try to know their family the most that they can. They try to get to understand their motivations. Even in spite of all of that, there are times where it's just not working out and you have to have some really difficult conversations. And so sometimes that looks like business owner holding on to somebody far too long, potentially. Yes. And if you take someone who, who is really doing these kind of things, and they're a good per— they're a good person, they really want to be a good leader, they want to leave a mark, they want to leave a legacy. Boy, they can really struggle with making a difficult conversation. And it feels like a paradox. It feels like I, I, I— this person's not right, this is not going to work out, this is, you know, the business, we need to get somebody else in here that sells more. Let's just say they're a salesperson, or You know, they just continue to make mistakes and they're a good person and I don't want to, I don't want to let them go. I don't want them to, you know, be without a job. And that can feel really heavy. Let's be real, that can feel very heavy. How do you help and how do you think a business owner should navigate through that?

Yeah, man, you, you hit a topic and I love hearing your language again because so there's reactively and proactively, right? In your question, we're now reacting. This salesperson is not selling. Maybe that— maybe they're, you know, not aligned with our, our values. Maybe it's an operations person and they're, they're dropping the ball, etc. We, but we've, we've identified this person is not performing up to, you know, the basics, let alone the, the, you know, extraordinary. Well, now reactively, I believe, and I've made the mistake over the years of, like you said, holding on too long because I just— I, you, you believe in people, you believe in what people can become, etc. A lot of times they are who they are. If you've poured into them, if you shadow them, if you've invested in them, you've tried to hold them accountable, and you've seen they're still not growing, man, the sooner we can part ways and make sure it's, hey, there's nothing personal, we want to help you be successful somewhere else, we want to help you find what is truly your path. You're obviously— so try not to make it about the company, you know. You're not all about us, but more like, man, over the last 6 months or 18 months or whatever it's been, you know, I think we've both kind of come to a realization that this is probably not where you're called or where you're destined to be at your best. So let me help you find something where it is right for you. And doing my best to not make it about me or the company, but more about how can we help them get in the right place. That's the reactive answer. Now going forward as a leader, I need to be more proactive and set proper expectations going forward. Whenever I onboard someone, maybe having a 30-day, a 90-day, a 6-month target of, you know, and each of your listeners would do this differently obviously based on their business, but you know, hey, this, this is throughout the, the, the interviewing and hiring process and then the onboarding process, we're going to quickly see things that we have to confront quickly and see how they respond. Because if they don't respond in the first 30 days or in the process, you know, then, then why drag this out 12 months and make it even harder? Let's rip the dang Band-Aid off quicker. So that's more the proactive answer is I got to learn from experience. Hopefully a lot of your listeners, you know, I'm— and I'm no different. I'm 51 years old. I've been in my company 32 years. I need to be better. I'm, I'm fired up to keep learning, to keep investing in myself, to keep studying so that I can be more equipped in the season ahead than I was last season.

I love that. That actually leads me to my last question. Is, is, um, let's see if I can try to figure out how to articulate this question. Um, I'll just talk it out loud. There's a lot of content out there, this podcast being one of them. To be honest with you. Um, YouTube, podcast on Spotify, Apple, um, social media, short clips. Everybody is— every, every app from TikTok to Instagram to LinkedIn to emails, even email newsletters, everybody's vying for attention, right? For listeners, for subscribers, for attention. I think I heard it said that attention is the new oil, right? Uh, used to— and so, um, wonderful. What can be challenging with that as a business owner in particular gets too much information, overwhelmed, maybe even conflicting ideas, things of, well, I This person said this, but another person said something that's come totally the opposite. Contradicts.

Yeah.

And so this is not necessarily around— there's certainly not a lack of personal and professional development for small business owners and leaders out there. There's enough. And that enhances the problem. What are your thoughts around how someone can go through and instead of just like wading through, they don't even know what they're looking for, but actually begin to try to identify You know what, I'm going to really— this is a weakness of mine or this is something I want to learn. So, therefore, I'm going to kind of curate, heck, even in some cases, curate my algorithm to offer up some of these things. Does this make sense?

Yeah, I love it, man. You hit a big topic, right? Even for our children growing up in this information world where everything is so quick. Uh, I personally love to get really quiet once a quarter, get away. My wife and I have a habit now where we go either check into a hotel or take a day to kind of get out of the house. No screens, no. And for us, it involves prayer and writing. And I think every listener right now is sharp enough to know, okay, for this next season, this next 3 months or whatever the timeframe is, is up to you. I really need to work on being more emotionally intelligent. That is my number one most important thing. Or maybe I'm doing really well with this and this and this, but I really want to work on, you know, understanding AI better and being more proactive with certain types of technology. Or, um, kind of picking your main thing for that season. And then blinders. Stay in your lane. Like the distractions are rampant. Everybody, like you said, is vying for their attention. So if I'm investing a little bit of time and money into my growth in a certain area for this season, I'm going to do my best to say no to everything else.

Hmm.

Politely. But the ability to say no is like one of the greatest characters of people that are, again, fulfilled and joyful, not just successful. Successful is such a, you know, funny word, right? So I'm talking about fulfilled and appreciative and contentment. Complacency is a negative thing, but contentment is a beautiful thing. And so I don't know about you, but man, we all want to grow to be joyful, content, fulfilled people. So hopefully we're all students. We love lifelong learning. We're never— we've never arrived where we can just say, I'm the man. I'm, you know, so we're every, every month, every quarter, every season. We've kind of picked one, maybe two things we're really focused on learning and studying. Now at the end of that quarter, I'm going to take a breath, pray, kind of audit how has it gone. You know what, I need more of that. I'm going to keep going with this thing. Or, you know, I feel like I've gotten what I wanted out of that. Now I'm gonna— now I'm gonna really work on a new thing. And, and, but again, if it's not— and then hopefully writing it out and telling two or three people about it. Hopefully you've got a couple, a few accountability partners or a outside coach like you people have, uh, where they can tell. So that way we've got accountability, like, hey, don't worry about that new widget. There's always this shiny new object. Just stay focused on what you're doing. That's perfect.

Love that.

Roland, I'll say one last thing on that, because you— this is the funny thing. Most all the books and all the, you know, and I've got a book that I'll readily admit we're recycling books like the Bible or books like How to Win Friends and Influence People or some of those old classics. They're all just re— rereading the Book of Proverbs. I have a lot of friends, people I know that say, I'm going to read 24 new books this year. I'm like, dude, that's cool. I love you're doing that. And for me personally, some years I might just want to read 4 books, but I'm going to read them each twice, right? Right. It's the thought.

Well, with that, I want to go and ask this. What are your top 3 to 4 books that you would cycle through every year?

Man, you know, A Man's Search for Meaning is, uh, so for me personally, the Bible's numero uno to really get into the word of God. Number 2 is, is Viktor Frankl, A Man's Search for Meaning, his study of, of how humans overcome adversity through going, you know, Auschwitz, being in the Holocaust. And it's just one of the deepest books you'll ever read. But I just think there's so many beautiful principles from that book. Uh, there's a, you know, recently I've read one called Die with Zero, which is just a, you know, so there's, I don't have like any, my 5 favorites necessarily outside of those 2 I mentioned, but it's more just trying to pray and think, okay, what, Lord, what, what do you have me working on in this next season? And I had been in a state of accumulation trying to, you know, keep up and win and achieve and, you know, add more. And so that was an example of like, you know what, Die With Zero. You know, that, that book really spoke to me in an example of a recent season. Otherwise, a lot of what I'm reading is more running and endurance, just fun nutritional stuff and just, you know, healthy body, soul, mind, spirit kind of stuff.

Yeah, it's funny, on this, on this podcast, if you go back, I don't know, 4 years ago or so, there's a, there was a year, maybe even 2020 if I'm not mistaken, that I had said at the beginning of the year I was going to read 36 books in about, about this time, Q4. I was a little behind and I, I, I just started powering through these books so I could hit this goal. And yes, do you think I retained any of that? No, of course I didn't retain any of that.

You're a great example. I love your humility, man.

That's a great example. Ron, loved having you on. People want to connect with you personally, professionally, learn more about, uh, kind of what you guys do. Where would you point them to?

Uh, so redefiningpossible.com is a great one. That's the name of the, the book I wrote. Uh, that's a great space where it's just, you know, whether it's anything personal or about the book or, you know, doing speaking things, workshop things, things like that. Otherwise, LinkedIn. Instagram, any of those are great. Uh, you know, I'm, I'm pretty active on any of those sites where I would respond to a direct message. Uh, the, the company Southwestern Consulting, you know, any, anything on the website there is also an easy spot, but LinkedIn and Instagram are probably the easiest two.

Awesome. Ron, what do you think working above the business means to you?

Love it. Well, impact. Earlier we talked about how wealth equals impact, and so to me when I get into the weeds too much— we obviously have to be in the weeds some— I'm, you know, reactive and I'm petty and I'm, you know, but when I slow down and think big picture, what is this actually going to mean in life, to the world, to my family, to my community, to that— that to me is getting kind of, you know, the 30,000-foot view that we all need. That to me is, is my definition of being above the business. And then that energizes me and that empowers me and equips me to then get into the weeds when I need to.

Love that. Some of my key takeaways from your episode that I thought was great, um, you mentioned getting the head right and the heart right, slowing down to speed up. Also love what are my intentions of the day. Today would be a good example that I don't think I did a very good job of that. I woke up, I woke up and kind of immediately dove into work a little sooner than I should have and I can tell I'm a little off today in terms of my intentions, feel a little more reactive, less, less proactive on certain things. And that's not typical, but that's kind of what I did this morning. I also love the endurance, uh, it comes from having the clear, a clear vision. And then certainly, uh, I struggle with, which is the ability to say no, which is very difficult, uh, to, to do so. Ron, it was great having you on the podcast.

Yeah, you too, buddy. It's really neat being aligned with someone with your principles and your humility. So Bradley, thanks for having me.

Thanks so much. I want to shout out to our podcast sponsors, DirectClicks. If you want to be able to understand your marketing, have them do a marketing audit. Go to directclicksinc.com/above-the-business. DirectClicksinc.com/above-the-business. They'll look at your SEO, your pay-per-click, your online campaigns such as your social media, etc., and help you put together a plan for the latter part of this year and especially going into 2026. Now is a great time. DirectClickSignC.com/above-the-business. Developing your team. Once you have a marketing plan in place, it impacts your financials, it impacts the team that you hire. Autopilot Recruiting can help you to get have a consistent— not just get above the business and be able to build a team, but have a consistent recruiting process in place so that you're always filled with A-player candidates. In case you were to have somebody that were to leave or you need to let someone go, they're going to help you to build your bench, fill the gaps within your team. Go to autopilotrecruiting.com. Autopilot Recruiting. Club.capital.com. If you're confused or maybe don't know whether or not you can hire someone or what you should pay someone, Club Capital can help you to solve that problem. Go to club.capital, book in a no-obligation demo, help them— they will help you to understand the mindset, the skill set, and tool set you need for your financials. Obviously, we talked about with Ron a ton around developing yourself and developing your team, and you can get both with Coach P. Go to coachpconsulting.com, coachpconsulting.com. Let him know that you heard about him on the Above the Business podcast. Alright everyone, enjoyed that episode with Lauren. Until next time, lead well and go be great.