Episode 8: Hayk Tadevosyan on the Four F's of Life

you've got to work on the biggest monkey on your back first, whatever is the one that's making you lose sleep, and balance from there moving forward. Because perfection is the lowest standard we can set ourselves. It almost like saying I'm okay to be disappointed 24/7 because we can't achieve perfect. That's why when you get those 4 pillars in a certain balance, you rebalance imperfectly moving forward.

Welcome to the Club Capital Leadership Podcast, where you will learn to grow your business, grow your leadership, and grow and develop your team. And now tune in to another great episode brought to you by your hosts, Bradley Hamner and Chris Ferretti. Chris, I think people are going to get a tremendous amount of out of this podcast from Haik. You know, two of the things that really stand out to me is number one, He tells a story about going up on stage, being awarded the number one agent in the country at the time, and how he walked out of that basically with a lot of empty promises. And he felt that he was overweight and his friendships and family had not really— were not where they needed him to be. And then number two, how fitness has turned into a business success principle for his agency and just really for his career. What are a couple of things you picked up from this podcast, Chris?

Definitely along the lines of empty promises as well. I do think that a lot of the time when we think of success, we only focus on one of the four aspects of success that Hyke talks about, which is basically finance, fitness, friendships, and family. So success is typically only thought of in the financial aspect, but I'm happy that Hyke was actually able to walk us through how you have to have an imperfect balance, he calls it, between all four of them. And how by you actually dedicating ample amounts of time to each one, you're actually going to be more fulfilled. At each aspect of them. He calls it taking care of the biggest monkey on your back. So if the fitness monkey is on your back and it's screaming at you, then take care of that monkey. If it's a friendship monkey, then take care of that monkey. And by you taking care of that monkey, you're actually going to be taking care of all the other aspects of your life because your overall mood is going to improve. So that's just the tip of the iceberg. I can't wait for our listeners to actually check out the rest of the podcast. So without further ado, let's get into it.

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Glad to be here. Thank you so much for having me on the show.

You know, whenever I was doing a little bit of research about your background, I mean, you've just had an amazing journey to get to this point in your career. Why don't you tell people a little bit about where you're from and how you got to where you are today?

So my family, my father and I moved to the United States in the year 2001. That's when the economy wasn't so well after the Soviet Union collapse of 1992. A lot of the former Soviet countries have actually taken a big dive, middle class disappeared, there was not many jobs. So to support a family, the mothers would stay home with the kids and dads would go travel and work outside the country. Typically my father was going back and forth in Moscow and things were getting really rough. So at that time, this American dream was getting very popular. And to us, you know, my country, most countries, the American dream was there's a country out there, it's called America. If you go there, if you just work hard and if you're ethical, those two things will get you places. And to us it's almost like, how? Because we're ethical here, we're working hard, we're starving, right? So in majority of countries out there, including our country, Armenia, hard work and being ethical, actually those are two things that can almost consume you. You almost have to know how to bribe. You almost have to know how to fight. You almost have to be able to do all these shortcuts and go against rules and laws to be able to make it in the economy we have in a former Soviet Republic country. So American Dream got popular. We were only able to get visa for 2, so we left my younger brother, older sister, my mom behind thinking we will see them in a short period of time. Little mommy's boy here knew it took 7 years. So I grew up from 13 to 20, the most vital years of my life without my mom and brother and sister. It was the toughest 7 years of my life, but it taught me so many valuable lessons. And that's one thing I really write about in my book, how a lot of people look at adversity and they say, this is bad, I'm unlucky, why me? But I go back and say, you know what, I graduated from school of hard knocks and I began that school at 13, took me 7 years to graduate. I have a degree, I have a PhD, and I call it poor, hungry, determined mindset, which I'm going to own for the rest of my life. Of course, the first couple years were tough. We didn't speak English. The only thing my father and I could do was construction, labor work, right? We delivered marketing for pizza companies. There was a Russian family that kind of helped us out. I got very good at making pizza boxes. We were cleaning bathrooms. Toilets and gyms, you name it, anything possible to send money back home to Armenia for our family to eat food, right? So to us, $100 a month was the difference of being able to make sure my mom, my brother, my sister were eating food and not. So we had no option. We did whatever we could. So from 13 and on, you know, every evening I could go to work with my dad. I would help him with the pizza route deliveries or the construction jobs he was taking, cash work, give or take. I got very, very obsessed and possessed with the idea of the American dream. And the idea was work hard, you get motivated, you'll learn how to sell, you learn how to speak to people. So I got introduced to the self-help management, to marketing business world where I was reading every book I could find just to study these successful people. And I watched every movie on the subject, all the YouTube videos. By the time I became 20, 21, I got into the insurance industry. I want to say on this new contract with insurance company I'm with, I became the youngest rep of the company. I remember 21, I got into the business afraid. I did not know if I was going to make it or not. So I'm like, I'm gonna go all in. I was working 12, 14, 16 hours a day, 6, 7 days a week. I remember after my first full year, I had my head down working. I got an invite to some club and it says you're invited to go to the top 100 agents meeting in this, uh, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, with a nice golf course. You get to stay in the hotel. I was honored. So I went there and I remember this was one of the best days of my life because that's when I really felt like this social reject has finally made it. And then we sit at this meeting, and I'm like, we're gonna announce our top 10 agents. And they're saying, countdown, and they're calling out names of these legends. I'm like, wow, like I'm shaking hands, I'm seeing these guys at the meeting. So they announced the top 10, top 3, top 2, and when they said the number 1 and I heard my name, I started sweating. I couldn't even move, I was shaky. And I got invited up to the stage, I shook hands with the vice presidents of the company, took the award. I learned a valuable lesson that weekend. The most valuable lesson was when I came back to the office, I realized I had no team, I had no life. I had gained 50 pounds. This is not the success and the American dream I was looking for because at that point money was getting great. In my early to mid-20s, I became a 6-figure kid, but there was a hole in my heart that was built within my whole life thinking if I can financially just fill up this hole, things will get great. But it was very disappointing to know I was still feeling unsuccessful and dissatisfied. I had no freedom. I had to come back to like million leads Monday morning because I took 3 days off to go to the strip. Not a place to be. So I started moving on to the next chapter, which was brought fitness back. I started taking gym breaks from 3 to 6 PM, 5 days a week. I thought less is more, where I was going to make less money but inspired my better now hired team members. I didn't have to have too many employees. Now I got more motivated people in my office who were doing endurance races with me, who were signing up for these competitive sports, and they got more motivated. Production numbers went up. I started making more money. Uh, health got great. I brought relationships back into my life. I met that special one. I got married and I had 2 kids. At that point, I felt like I was the most successful person in the world. That was about 5 years ago. I felt like American dream is a possibility, but it's not really about the financial thing. It's about the balance. And the balance was family, fitness, finances, and friendship. Even though I'm not the wealthiest guy I know, I'm not the fittest guy I know, I don't have the biggest family and most amount of friends, but I think there's the imperfect balance between those 4 pillars. And that's when I decided to write the book. And I spent 3 years, 20 hours a week writing the book. And here we are talking about that lesson. So long answer to a short question. That has been my experience. And this is why we're on this podcast today.

Man, that's fantastic. So I just have to unpack a few things. So whenever you immigrated, you were 13, is that right?

13 years old, yes.

So you're in Washington. Did you move to Washington from the beginning, and how did that happen?

Most Armenian families moved to LA. We have a population of around 2 million in California, right? So we even have a street in Hollywood called Little Armenia. There's a lot of Armenian businessmen there. So sometimes we work well together but not with each other. So things in LA didn't work out. We moved to Washington because my uncle was living here. And things picked up. We went to Oregon one time, came back here, and after I established my business, I probably have some kind of a post-traumatic stress disorder because I moved maybe 8 different schools in like 3 years just because my father had to move to get different jobs so we can make money. I wanted to build a business for the main reason of not to ever move again. I don't like new places. I have fear of new places. I'm learning to travel now finally. But yeah, we stuck around in Washington mainly because finally family came to America. After 7 years of not seeing them. My sister got married, my brother got married, now I have 2 kids, my brother has a kid, my sister has 2 kids. So the family is in Washington. This is our new home.

Yeah, well, that's a great story.

Boom, man. Congratulations. Thanks, Chris. Yeah, man. So funny enough, I actually migrated to the US when I was 13 years old as well. I migrated from Nicaragua. So, uh, and we both have Yeti microphones and we both wear glasses.

How many more things can we have in common?

Uh, well, you'll be surprised. So endurance racing, actually. So you mentioned off the air that you're going to be doing the Ironman soon.

Right. Half Ironman. Correct.

Half Ironman. Nice.

I'm going to be doing potentially 3 of them this year.

3 half or 3 halves.

Yeah. I'll keep the full one for next year just because I'm still 250 pounds. I've had heavy lifting background. I actually went from 250 to 215. I've done a full marathon a few times. My goal is to do an ultra, but not yet. I'm getting very good at triathlons. My goal is to qualify for the world championships, half Ironman. Uh, I can keep a good speed, not for the full. Half, I can keep a good speed. Full breaks down my body. I'm not there. I need to drop to maybe 190 to be able to pull off a full.

So just so you know, I'm actually doing a half marathon, my first one ever.

And nice, congratulations, that's a good first step.

Yeah, thank you, thank you. And I'm gonna put a little twist to it. I can't say on air what I'm gonna be wearing, but it's gonna be pretty sick. It's gonna be pretty sick.

I want to see a picture, if a video possibility, I would love to see it.

Oh, believe me, it's going to get the media's attention in a positive way. Like, I think it's going to be funny. And by the end of the year, I'm going to try to break a world record in this specific outfit that I'll be wearing. It's very achievable actually. I think the world record right now for it, it's only an hour and 18 minutes for half marathon, which is just basically, it's like a 6:50 or 6:30 mile.

That sounds about right.

Which I think like with enough training it's possible. Like right now I'm running a 7:40 something.

And for somebody who's never ran it, that's pretty fast. I mean, I've been training forever and I'm a 7:30 guy right now for half marathon speed.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I've played sports my whole life, like soccer, like Sports that were related to running.

I mean, soccer runners run average of 10 miles per game. So that makes sense.

Yeah. So yeah. So anyway, um, I'm super excited about it and I'm always excited to talk to people who do races like that because of the fact that they tend to do really well in other aspects of their lives as well. At least that's, I've found that to be the case.

Here's an interesting thing. I just joined a triathlon club here in my city. I just found them finally. I mean, they're entrepreneurs, business owners, doctors, you name it. It's a group of bunch of insane people who do not like to be comfortable. Yeah. And you seem insane to your friends because a lot of my peers don't do this, but you join this club, you feel normal because everybody's like, you do what? And they're much more badass than you. It really humbles you to see people who are just so much stronger, so much faster. And you got to get around these people because you don't want to get full of yourself. Not in business. I think a big part of mentorship is not surrounding people who sound great, but it's people who are doing great things. And they always make you feel like you got to do more. That's not enough. And this has been a humbling experience for me to think I'm not doing enough. This, 10, 15 hours of training. These guys are putting up 20, 25.

So yeah, I think the greatest feeling for me is when I have close friends of mine, we're like super close friends, right? And suddenly they give me some news about a project that they've been working on, and it's like a huge project, and it can benefit them financially, or it can benefit them physically, or whatever the case is. But it's such big news, and we never even talk about— like, we never talk about it until that point in time when they bring up the news. And I'm just like, holy crap, like, I have to step my game up. And like, there's no better feeling than being surrounded by people who inspire you. Like, to me, that is the best gift that anybody can give me— inspiration. Like, just be around me. And when I say be around me, like, I don't mean that in a selfish way. Like, I think you have to contribute, like, add value to the people that you're around. And it has to be a conscious effort. Like, yes, the friendship will grow organically, but you do have to go out of your way to find people that are doing something amazing. Like you saying that you joined triathlon club.

What is that quote? Um, you're the average of some of the people you surround yourself with, right?

Yeah.

5 people who push you, the 6th one who does it back. If you got 5, I don't want to say the word idiots, but if you got 5 idiots in your life, you're probably the 6th one, right?

So, oh yeah, for sure. Also, you're saying that you're 250, but I'm looking at you right now and like, you seem like a pretty slim guy. Like, are you super tall? Oh, 215.

Yeah. Oh, I used to be pretty heavy built. I quit lifting just this year. I'm not gonna do any lifting. I just need to drop the weight so I can get faster.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Well, I mean, let's talk about the power of mindset, how it helps you develop a stronger sense of self, find balance with the four distinct areas of your life, which are family, fitness, friendships, and finances.

Yeah, Chris. So like I said before, when I was obsessed over the self-help industry, I read every material I could find. So I stole a lot and I was always looking for the next book that I feel like is going to give me a lot in one. Because sometimes I would read a book and the whole book has one point and I'm like, get to the point already. Right? So you're 250 pages in, it's the same lesson with 3 different stories. I'm like, I want to read something with everything, right? That's why I really enjoy the Bible. It's got so many lessons and stories. I'm a deacon at my church, so I'm pretty spiritual as well. So I took a lot of what I knew from the spiritual side, from the business side, from all the self-help, and I dumped all of it into my book. Initially, I didn't really write this book to share with anybody. I have a really weird, I don't know if it's ADHD or I don't know if it's a sleeping disorder, but I'll wake up at 2, 3, 4 in the morning and I'm like, this was the idea I was thinking about, and I would write myself an email. I would sometimes wake up at 6 in the morning, so 2 o'clock in the morning I wrote myself an email. It was like 4 pages long email, right? And I kept on archiving these. So I had about 350 to 400 pages of content. And that's when I thought to myself, it's good. I'm organizing my weird thoughts into one. What if I make this into a book? And if it's worth it, maybe I'll share it with people. Once I had polished it down about a year and a half into it, I approached a company that what they do is they essentially publish books, right? So a big publisher, you know, they kind of blew me off and they're like, you know, we get like 10,000 submittals a year. We only approve like 100 books. You don't have a following. There's a very low chance we'll take your book. Anyway, I sent them my manuscript. They looked at it, they came back like, "We love the material, we'll take your book." Once I saw the contract, I said, "Sorry guys, I'm going to take the self-publishing route." Because it's enough that I have a business that's kind of co-owned by a corporate world, but it's still my business. I didn't want that same feeling through my book. I wanted that full control because if I want to go speak at a college or do something like this and share some lessons with people, I don't want permission from somebody on something I spent so much time writing about. So there's two sides to my book. One is going to be, I summarized a lot of the self-help industry into one. And this is the words of my mentor. My mentor is, his name is Ali. He's a member of Mensa. He's like the top 2 percentile of IQ scores. He's got 2 master's degrees, just went to and got himself a, just because he wanted to get his patent law degree at age 50, he did it. He's got a chemical company that deals with oil companies in Texas and Abu Dhabi. He's got an insurance business. So the guy's very successful and he intimidates me more than anybody I know, right? So to me, for him to read the book and criticize me, that means I wasted 3 years of my life. And I remember when he read it, he comes back to me, he's like, "Man, one of the best books I've ever read. You need to get this message out there. You've summarized the entire self-help industry into 300 pages." I'm like, "Sold. I am going to promote this book from now on." But I really believe the true message of the book is the American dream is not about a foreigner coming into this country. It's about somebody learning what the American dream is, and this country really gives it to you, but also work can really consume you. First time when I wrote the book, I was very much wrong about what I thought success was, even though I felt I was very content and successful when I'd become a person that was aware about the balance, which was family, fitness, finance, and friendship. I used to tell to myself, in the entire book I talked about there's a specific order. You follow my order, you feel the way I feel, which you're gonna be the happiest person ever. You gotta take care of finances, that allows you to buy your time back. You get your time back, you now have time for fitness. When you have time for fitness, you are more positive, you're more vibrant, you're attracting great relationships in your life, your relationship with your peers betters itself, and then you meet that special person, you get married, 'Now you're the American dream.' As I wrote this book, I started disagreeing with myself. And I called a few of my friends who are doctors and I said, 'You did a dissertation, you had a thesis. When you started putting this on paper, did at any one point you disagree with yourself?' Every single one of them said, 'Absolutely.' It's very common to disagree with your thesis because when you put it on paper, you know you have to defend this in front of a group of smart people, they're going to read your material. You start really wanting to make sense because you're proud of your material. So I said, 'That's good to know because I thought I was an idiot. Maybe I was just giving myself the wrong message.' As I went back and I spent another year editing, I said there's no order. There's a monkey on your back telling you you're either unhealthy, so you got to take care of that monkey first that's telling you you suck. You need to work on your health. You got to make sure you're not getting sick, right? Or there's another monkey on your back telling you you're poor. Well, take care of the financial thing. There's another monkey on your back that might tell you you've got no friends. Go take care of that. You need friends. Or there's a monkey on your back telling you your relationship with your spouse and kids is not that good. Go improve that first. Because if you don't, it follows you into the other pillars. So my thesis changed to, you've got to work on the biggest monkey on your back first, whatever is the one that's making you lose sleep, and balance from there moving forward. Because perfection is the lowest standard we can set ourselves. It almost like saying I'm okay to be disappointed 24/7 because we can't achieve perfect. That's why when you get those 4 pillars in a certain balance, you rebalance imperfectly moving forward.

I like the fact that you embrace imperfection in that. I was actually thrown off earlier when you were talking about Finding the imperfect balance in between the 4 Fs that we just talked about, but agree with the fact that trying to go for perfection is the worst thing that anybody could ever do. And that's something that personally I just learned actually the past, I would say, 2 and a half months, like mid-December. I was just thinking about life in general. And then I realized, like, I know where I want to go. I know exactly what I have to do to go there. I find myself not doing those actions. Why? And then the reason why is because of the fact that I was setting this, like, crazy goals, which we all have to have crazy goals. But every day I basically wanted to get to that goal like in one day. And I came across something that Tim Ferriss, my favorite author, he talks about a lot, and that's the value of having incredibly low expectations. So a prime example of this, let's say that you want to floss your teeth and you don't floss right now. Floss just one tooth, because when you floss that one tooth, you realize, well, I'm already here, I might as well just floss the rest. If you want to meditate, meditate for 3 minutes, 5 minutes. I started doing 5 minutes a day, I think for like 20 days. And now I do consistently every single day, 10 minutes a day, which some people might listen to and be like, that's nothing. But to me, it's made a huge difference as far as like how calm I am with everything. Same thing with exercising as well. And it all came from the power of having incredibly low expectations. Coming to the actual realization that perfection is nonexistent, you have to be comfortable with being imperfect. And I just can't find the words to simply say, be comfortable with imperfection. Perfection is not actually achievable.

There's a really good quote, uh, to live in fear is to live in the future and to live in regrets, live in the past. To be happy is to be in the moment. And I think being in the moment has a lot to do with imperfection and vulnerability, right? Because we're thinking about all this stuff we want to control about tomorrow. We can't. You're expecting— that's perfection. And to go back and change the past because I want my past to be perfect, you're missing out on the happy moment. Because all happy associated moments of our life have to do with being in the present, whether you're playing with your kids, you're on the date night with your spouse, you're in the office in front of a customer, or you're in the gym, right? One of the things I preach a lot— and you know, last few years I've gotten a good amount of following of people that want to get into fitness. So I've been a good amount of free labor in mentoring people to get into marathons and Spartan races and stuff. So the biggest thing I share is do not have a crazy workout schedule that intimidates you. I'm like, you figure out what you're going to do, go get on the treadmill, do a slow jog for 10 minutes. The reason why I tell it to people is because a lot of times when I don't want to go to the gym, I still go do my 10-minute slow jog because it's non-threatening, right? I'm like, figure out what you would do. Sometimes I do my 10-minute jog, it turns into a 45-minute killer run, push-up, run, push-up when you get off the treadmill every 0.25 miles. Or turns into a weightlifting session, or turns into a swimming session. But I'm like, unless you do your 10 minutes, do not quit, because that 10 minutes can turn into a killer workout, or you'll give yourself an excuse saying, you know what, I told myself I'm gonna do 10 minutes. You're not gonna let yourself down. And there's a very important power of you knowing, you look in the mirror, you're saying, you know what, I have integrity with myself. And stick to the 10-minute rule, you might just have extra 4 workouts that week.

Yeah, one quote that I picked up from Tom Bilyeu, I believe it's how you pronounce his last name. Yeah, yeah, Tom Bilyeu, yeah.

And he says that self-respect is earned.

And I'm big on self-love, and I mean that in a healthy way. Like, you have to love yourself before you love anybody else, and you have to value your time as well. But I think in order for you to love yourself, in order for you to value your time, you have to take actions that are going to make you want to love yourself, that are going to make you want to value your time. And what I have done to get to that level, and it's something that I work at every single day, is simply write down things that I want to accomplish that day and accomplish it. And sometimes I don't accomplish everything in one day, and then it just goes to the next day, and it goes to the next day, and it goes to the next day. But At some point in time, what I told myself that I was going to do has to be done. Otherwise, that self-image, you know, definitely goes down. And I've been through ups and downs and ups and downs, but it's got to keep going.

One advice I give to a lot of business owners, a lot of them call and say, how do you find your team? Because I've got a really good team, right? They kick some major butt of what they do. They're here early, they skip lunch breaks. One person produces more than some of the 3 team average people that do in the insurance business. And, you know, I give people an answer that some of them don't like. And I say, you want a positive, driven, coachable, competitive, you want the PhD, right? Poor, hungry, determined mindset. So you want somebody who shows up early, you want somebody who reads good books, you want somebody who exercises, you want somebody who's positive, right? You want all that in your office. Is that what you are or is that what you want? Because the unfortunate truth to that is we attract who we are, not what we want. So unless you're showing up early, unless you're reading books, unless you're doing the races, unless you've got a good marriage and good kids, do not expect for somebody to come in and all of a sudden become like that. If you're negative, if you are pessimistic, if you are lazy, you might find that winner, they either might join you or they'll quit. So when people talk about invest in yourself, I don't think they understand what that means. It's not about buying memberships, not by using them, right? So investing in yourself, it truly has been the best thing, is investing in good books, good audio. Quit listening to music in your car. You go on a run, listen to podcasts like, you know, something like this, right? So that's what it means to invest in yourself, to better you, because you're going to attract your own self. That's what leads to good relationships, not wanting them. Yep.

I fully agree.

I'm glad you brought that up.

So quick sidebar, I actually want to talk to you about the American dream. Just want to bring that up and what it means to me. I'm super passionate about it myself. Like there's a corny saying that says your vibe attracts your tribe, but it's 100% true. Like how can you expect once again to have a perfect 10 regarding the kind of books that they read, their work ethic, how intelligent they speak to people, how hard they work. How do you expect a perfect 10 in all those aspects to work for you, to choose you as their leader, if you're not that kind of person? And that applies to every aspect of your life as well.

I agree. I also believe that there's a certain lie or misconception about the American dream, that just hard work will get you there. You build a certain mindset, you attract certain kind of people, or you go look for them. If you look for it, you find what you seek, right? And you can be the hardest working farmer in a desert Good luck, right? You will not grow a single tiny plant, right? So it's not necessarily about just hard work, and that's the thing about the American dream. This is the country where you can go to a successful person, ask for mentorship, they'll give it to you. In Armenia, you go to some like top producing or somebody does well, he's going to be blowing you off. That's what's missing in most countries that America has. You can seek mentorship, they can tell you where to implement your hard work. And I was very lucky in my late teens that the time I had a girlfriend whose father was in the insurance business, he said, here's what you need to do. I'm like, The guy's got a nice house and a couple of nice cars. I'm going to listen to what he says. But I could have stuck around and done construction and worked for pizzerias. Like, that hard work would have burned me out, right? So it's very, very important to connect mentorship to hard work. Otherwise, just hard work, you're going to be spinning the wheels and burning off the rubber off your tires, and soon you'll be needing a set of new tires. And that's not how it works.

I completely agree. So number one, I gotta say that every single day I'm super thankful and humbled to wake up on US soil. Because this country really is the best country in the entire world. This country really is a country of opportunity. And I'm just so thankful and grateful to be in it and to be an American.

Can I add something to that?

Sure.

People will disagree with you because people disagree with me when I say the exact same thing, but it's the greatest country to you. And it's the greatest country to me.

Exactly. Exactly. I don't want to get into politics, but all that I will say, if you happen to think that another country is better, why are you here? You know?

Like, yeah.

Yeah.

Well, that's the problem. People get too addicted to progress. They're thinking about the next best thing, and unfortunately they get so conditioned to thinking there's something better out there for themselves. They talk their way out of their health, out of their country, out of their jobs, out of their marriage. Divorce rate's extremely high. Business failure rate's really high. People failing with fitness is really high. Why? Because we never are in the moment. We're thinking about the next best thing. We're so thought-thinking that our happiness belongs somewhere else. We're always looking for a corner in a round room. Boom.

So I just want to once again give a quick shout out to the United States of America for being the best country in the whole Why world? There's a ton of opportunity here. Just like you're saying, there's companies that actually are nonprofits that will mentor you. I believe SCORE is a nonprofit that you can reach out to. I think seasoned business owners that can mentor you in whatever industry you're trying to start a business in. It's super easy to start a business. We can literally go online right now and open up a business very quickly. There is tons of talent here, just tons of everything. So it's not a question or anything. It's just a statement that this is the best country in the whole world.

It's got the opportunity, but also it does not forgive laziness. You've got to put in the work.

I wouldn't even say that, to be honest with you. There's always a fallback. There's always a fallback here. That's the benefit of being in the US. But don't be lazy. Don't be lazy. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, you can still have a lot, but if hardworking people get there faster—

Hardworking people definitely get there faster. I do want to ask Bradley if he has anything to chime in. He's super eloquent and very brilliant and articulate. So I would love to hear him just comment on anything.

Well, it's just amazing just hearing you guys talk. First of all, it comes to mind just the perspective that growing up and being born in the United States and just hearing both of you talk about your gratitude for being here, it really gives me, first of all, perspective and does make me— because we lose that sense because I was born here and so that's all I know is to grow up in the U.S. and to be given these opportunities. And so that's one thing. The second thing is this kind of Ties to something that's in your book, Haik, is oftentimes I would consider myself a self-help addict. I mean, look at my bookshelf behind me, right?

I'm like, where's my book? Isn't it supposed to be somewhere on that shelf?

Yeah, for sure. Oh, it's going to be there. It's going to be there. So one of the things that we focused on is what do we need to do? What's the next thing? What's on our to-do list to be able to have success? But one of the things that when I was looking at on your website is you talk about some of the things that we need to avoid that's holding us back from success and happiness. And I just thought that that was an interesting concept instead of what to do and what should we be doing, just what are some of the things that we should avoid to be able to find our true success and happiness. Can you speak to that?

Yeah, you know, when I was possessed and obsessed with just hard work, and that's when I went, I'm going to take some time off, quit trying to make all the money in the world, hike, take some time away from your business, right? So I have a formula I use a lot in the book and I talk about that. It's the CAAR formula, C-A-A-R. Each letter stands for clarity, action, activity, and results, right? So there's a certain sense of clarity. So if you know something's not bringing you passion, so it's not doing more of one thing that brings you more of contentment, happiness, it sometimes is doing something else. So I was pretty clear about the fact that I was out of shape. So I said to myself, let me just bring some health into my life. And when I start taking those breaks, which is the actionable step, 3 to 6, I would take those breaks. and I would come back into the office at 6, work until 9. That was my schedule the first couple years. You know, clarity led to action, action led to activity, which is the process of me doing it over and over and over and over, which led to results, right? So if you got an activity plan, that will lead to results, but you got to be clear to begin with. And I started doing less and avoided work. I avoided certain meetings, I avoided talking to certain clients, I avoided being this person that says, if you want things right, do it yourself. And I started trusting my team in business where they had the opportunity to grow because I realized My growth opportunities came when I had to figure out on myself. I didn't have this boss or mentor or friend doing things for me. It's the difference between disabling and enabling somebody, is giving them to express creativity. As I left, I would come back to great stories from my team. Like, you weren't here, so we tried this. And then I would come back and share stories about my fitness success. And I remember at the time, business completely turned around. I went from thinking I will never detach myself from the business to within about 2 years from that, I went from working 60, 70, 80 hours a week to now I'm doing 20. So most I spend is 20 hours a week in the office. Our production numbers probably have doubled ever since. I've got less team members. People think I've got this huge operation. I've got 3 producers and 1 service rep in my office, and we're pulling pretty good numbers because every single one of them is just completely doing things right. They're all working out, they're all into fitness. One of them I'm fighting trying to get her into the fitness world. You know, we're doing Ragnar Race coming up together, we're doing Spartan races come together. So Sometimes again, avoiding what you think you need to do more of, it's the complete paradox. You have to just switch. When I started doing less and I quit thinking just hard work is when work got better, it got more satisfying. It brought more passion into my life, avoiding certain negativity, right? So a lot of times when you put in more work, you get a little bit more negative. You have less energy when you get home. So those were some of the lessons I learned from what to avoid. There's many other things, but I think directly from my story, that was the specific answer to your question, Brad.

You know, I just couldn't help but think that you began to utilize that formula and what you started to do is you transitioned from being an operator to being an owner.

Exactly. I guess, what is the myth book that talks— E-Myth is working on the business versus working in the business. And when I read that book, this was like last year, I'm like, "Wow, this book, I should have read this 5 years ago." Yeah, that's true.

I get the concept that people go with, with that book about working on versus in, but Nobody asks, "What business are you on?" They ask, "What business are you in?" And so I would still contend that even though you've been able to transition from being an operator to an owner, you're still in your business. Absolutely. And so you're just— what the activities that you're doing today are different than the activities that you were doing when you were number 1 out of the top 100 and went to Coeur d'Alene to pick up the award. What you're doing now is far different and at a higher level than what you were doing then. Would you agree?

100% agree with you. Yes. I don't think as a business owner you should completely detach yourself from your business unless you're— even Warren Buffett, one of his secrets, you know, I read about, he talks about every time he buys a company he joins the board. So, he can be there when the decisions are being made which is— he's one of the greatest investors of our time. So, I agree. You cannot be all working on the business. That's a dream that's never going to come true.

I agree. I mean, if you look at 9 of the top 10 richest people in the country, I would contend that those people are in their business. They're in their business with the exception of maybe Bill Gates because he's now giving back his money. I mean, he's the only one that I would say that he's not in his business. Everybody else I would say is in their business. It's just what they're doing in their business is at a higher level. And so, I think that that on versus in is a general concept, but I also think it can be misconstrued at times.

Quite frankly. I agree with you. Very well said, Brad.

Yeah. That's actually a point that I never even thought about myself. I do think you definitely do want to be a business owner and you want to make sure that you're focusing on your strengths and that you're delegating things that you may not necessarily be the best at, but you might not be delegating it because A, you don't have the personnel, or B, you think that you have to do everything yourself for it to be done correctly. And eventually you're simply going to burn yourself out. I mean, no matter how "hard" you want to work, you have to focus on the overall business, how can you run a good overall business? And the keyword is run, not necessarily fully work and do every possible activity of the business.

I think I know exactly what you mean, Chris. It's doing the right things. One of my mentors said, do the work that's $500 to $1,000 an hour, not the $10 an hour work.

There you go. That's— yeah, that's it.

Essentially, your 20 hours is a lot more better than your 60 before when you're doing $10 an hour worth of work. Delegation and the right team, that really helps you get there. But without a team, I could say I'm nothing in my business. If I don't have them, I'm back in there doing the work that I do not enjoy.

Hey, listen, I told somebody the other day, great operators get tired, great owners get rich.

I love that.

I have never heard of that.

I'm gonna steal that from you, Brad.

Well, you know what? I bet you that Bradley probably came up with that. Bradley's great when it comes to words, man. Bradley's definitely a wordsmith as well, for sure. You need to quote that.

There needs to be an official picture of you, Brad, with the quote at the bottom.

So when you talk about the 4 factors, family, fitness, friendship, and finances, I want you to also just be able to touch on just real quickly, not for you to be able to go through all 14, but just the 14 principles that you have in your book. You want to touch on those just a little bit?

Yeah, initially I had 20. It was way too many. I combined a lot of them, right? So each chapter is a lesson from my life. I don't think you're reading like, this is all my, you know, me, me, me, but I believe at least one, like one of them is an interview. I did an interview with a disabled kid. When I made this commitment to get back in shape, I would get to the gym at 5:00 in the morning. I remember 6:00, 6:30 every morning, this kid in wheelchair would roll himself into the gym every day. Every day he was there. He would slide off his wheelchair, electric wheelchair, somehow figure out to get the cables and do pulls and then leg press. There's people fully enabled who avoid because it's difficult, it's embarrassing. This kid was there every freaking day. I go up to him one day, I'm like, excuse me, what's your name? And it turns out he can barely talk. He has a condition, a rare condition called cerebral palsy. There's an Apgar score if you're born, if you have anything below, I believe, 3, that means you need rehabilitation. He was born with the lowest score of 1, he was dead. When they brought him back, he had this birth defect. Turned out, I asked him like, dude, I'm writing a book, I want to make an entire chapter about you. He's like, yeah. So him and his mother met me at a coffee shop and I interviewed him. I believe that was a very critical chapter. I want to say 13, 12 or 13. He turned out to be a Special Olympics champion in shot put and second place in discus, gold medalist here. He goes speaks even though he can barely talk, he speaks at colleges teaching kids lessons. And I'm like, that was a vital lesson for me that deserved a chapter about disability is in your head. And when I asked Steve, I'm like, Steve, what's the biggest difference about you and an average person? He goes, no difference. It just takes me longer to do things. I got my degree, I started a business, I'm just slower. That's all it is. I'm like, what a man. What kind of a mindset and strength does it take to be able to even have that kind of reality? So that's one chapter. Another chapter was again, what to avoid. Another one specifically talking about the balance. Another chapter is about my relationship with my brother, how we talk about having kids and how that really changed perspective on thinking you're tough until you got all these things. He's a professional mixed martial artist. I just recruited him into the insurance business. He's busy and then he had a kid and I'm like, you can handle it, right? So we become our best under most amount of pressure. There's a chapter on that, right? All these different pillars, I believe that there are lessons in for me, and also lessons from all the self-help industry that I picked up over the years. So if you really want to spend time in my weird mind, that's— I have all of it in there. So that's in sum what the chapters are about.

I have to say, whenever you tell that story, I went to the gym one day. This was probably at least 5 years ago, and I was just showing up at the gym. I was tired, and I walked in and I saw an older gentleman. He was at least 80 years old, and he was on the treadmill. With a full tank of oxygen right next to the treadmill. And I thought, wow, what is my excuse?

Yeah. Yeah. You don't feel good. You had a tough day at work, right? Makes you feel really humbled, right?

Yeah. I actually follow two people that like, one of them has like half a body, but the guy, he like speaks with Tony Robbins and I think he's got like half a body and then like only like one hand really. But like, once again, he like speaks with Tony Robbins all over the world, super confident and like fun guy in general and super positive as well. I mean, like, the guy laughs at himself just to be like, hey, this is not a disability at all. Like, I am living the dream right now. I just—

I can't remember his name, but I know who it is.

But you know who I'm talking about, right? I can remember, like, he's an Italian guy. He comes from Jersey, I believe, but his family now might live in Florida. I think it might be like Michael Santasana or something like that. Yeah, anyway, him. And then there's actually another guy who I followed cerebral palsy. And same thing, this guy goes to the gym, this guy speaks, does everything. And there's actually a coach too, like an NFL coach that actually has like no legs and no arms. And this guy is— he will get you pumped up. He gets teams pumped up. And at like my darkest, or like maybe like not feeling the best moments, I just look at people like that. And once again, I just say, what's my excuse? Like, I have no excuse. I have to get through this funk and just get to work. That's it.

I agree. No, you know, a big inspiration in my life has been my father. He's, uh, missing 4 fingers and pretty much most of his knuckles on his left, and he just has a thumb. And to this day, he still does— works construction. He hasn't really picked up English that much. I still translate letters for him all the time. When I go home, he has like a stack of mail for us. As he works in construction business, I remember he always comes home with a pride. He always says, I'm doing more than most of these guys with their 2 hands, right? And he's been this military style, don't ever quit, don't ever let yourself down. Some parents pride themselves on putting their kids through school, giving them a lot of money. I never got that. But I can say no amount of money will replace the lessons my father taught me about toughness and how you think you have an excuse. He's like, I'm supporting entire family with one hand, right? So that really early on taught me lessons about grit, about stick-to-itiveness, about don't complain, nobody cares, just work harder, right?

Just work harder. I like that. Even I don't want to focus on immigrants in general just because there's all people from all colors, races, nationalities that are hard workers. But I think when you find somebody who is from abroad, who comes from a country that might not be going through the best financial or just the best situation in general, when you find somebody who is motivated to become better and they're actually in a good flow of work, those people are the hardest working people that you could possibly ever meet, and very prideful as well. Like, they pride themselves in the work that they do.

What impresses me even more than the hardworking person who came here for the opportunity is the hardworking, motivated domestic Like, Brad, you were born here and you're as successful, as hardworking. What gets you up at night? Like, I study people like you. You don't have this perspective that I could have, right? So I have a mentor who was born and raised here, which impresses me like no other. I'm like, wow, like life conditioned me to be motivated. Like, you had to have some serious motivation, right? Because there's no perspective thinking you might get sent back to a country, so you better make it, right? So what's keeping you up at night? What gets you up in the morning the way you've been doing?

I think there's things that are hardwired into you, and then I think that there's your life experiences. I think I just saw my dad as a small business owner my entire life. He taught FFA and agriculture at my school. So he would get up, you know, at 7:30 or whatever, and we'd take us to school. And then when he would come home, he would change from his duck head khaki pants and Docker pants at the time. Then he would switch into his overalls and would go and run his business from 3:30 till 10 o'clock at night. And he was in farming. And so if it was harvest season or planting season, they would be out in the fields until 2, 3 in the morning. And so Now, with that, I sacrificed a lot with my dad. My dad didn't attend a lot of my sporting events, my baseball games and basketball games. And so that was hard on me. But every Saturday, he went to his business and worked all day. And then he would go to church on Sunday, and then he would go and work at his business on Sunday afternoons. And so I didn't know any different. So I honestly think for me, it was just hardwired in me to just want to be the best version of myself. And I had a really good example with my dad about what hard work really means, not just say it, but what hard work really means. And I have to tell you, I mean, sometimes your greatest strength can be your greatest weakness because my greatest weakness is to be like my dad in the sense that my life becomes total work and working all the time and not finding, as you mentioned, about that true balance in your life to be able to be present. Quite frankly, these cell phones, they're great, but they can be extremely distracting. You know, it's one of the things personally I'm working on is to be able to be more present with my family and be more present with anybody that I'm with, whether it's a coaching client, a call like this, is to just be present. And that's very difficult.

You get wisdom with the years, right? You have to experience certain things. You can't just learn from others. I am learning that there is a hardwiring to that because I've got some friends who have every reason to be the most motivated people in the world and they're just not. I want to grab them and shake them and say, what is wrong with you? Be thankful, right? So I believe there's a lot of hardwiring. Maybe for me, I just have a better reason and an excuse to call it, oh, it's my perspective. Maybe it is hardwired.

I do have a question actually. What's a piece of advice that you would give yourself? Like knowing everything that you know today, let's say that you find yourself starting being a Tika. What's a piece of advice that you would give yourself back in the day? And for our listeners today, what's a piece of advice that you would give a brand new insurance business owner as well?

You know, Chris, I've been going to a good amount of like study groups and sharing and speaking, and that question usually comes up at the very end. And I can tell you one thing is my answers change the wiser I've gotten. And my best answer might not be a perfect answer. It definitely is not a perfect answer is I make a lot of mistakes. Like there's been a lot of adversity because of the choices I've made. There's been a lot of pain because of what I've done. But I want to say nothing, nothing, because Pain and mistakes and risk has built and taught me many valuable lessons. So every time I've had something that I lost sleep over, I've gotten better. So the mistakes I've made, the extra stuff I've done, or the things I didn't do enough, I am glad because it molded me into who I am today. My understanding of appreciation and family and the balance has been due to the mistakes. So my advice to anybody, make the mistakes. Don't try to save yourself for a perfect moment. There is none. And at the end of the day, it comes down to if you don't learn from it, that's probably what you need to change is you need to be having experience to teach you valuable lessons. And adversity is one of those things, our primal instinct. For thousands of years we avoided risk because back in the day risk meant death. You go into a cave without checking out the cave, tiger eats you. You go into the bushes that's making a noise, bear eats you, right? So we have these genes that are telling us avoid risk, but you look at every successful story today, every big company that's built by some guy or some girl or some book or some doctor figuring out research, It all began with risk. So what worked against us back in the day is working in our favor now. But unfortunately, we're wired to avoid the things that teach us good valuable lessons. So I don't think there is a— again, me being in regret of the past and I should have done it, it's going to put me in a worse mood, right? But taking those as lessons, make mistakes, it's okay, mess up, but learn to be vulnerable, apologize, learn, and move forward.

I just say one thing to summarize what you just said, which is Principle by Ray Dalio. He says, "Pain plus reflection equals progress." Love it.

You guys both should come up with quotes. I like that one.

All right, you ready to move towards the E9?

Let's do it, man. Let's do it.

Haik, what's the last book you read?

David Goggins' new book that came out.

Can't Hurt Me.

Can't Hurt Me, yep.

Nice, great book. What book would you recommend the most to others?

If you own a business, you should read Extreme Ownership entrepreneurship. Otherwise, a general book you should read, Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill.

Jack Willink and Napoleon Hill, two great people to read.

You know, that Think and Grow Rich, both of those books, I've read both of them. That's a great book. Think and Grow Rich is a classic for sure.

Oh yeah, I make every man you hire read that book before I make them start here.

Oh, you were mentioning this just a minute ago, but we do learn the most from our failures and mistakes. What do you feel like is the biggest What's the biggest mistake that you've made in your business and what did you learn from it?

Doing more of one thing is not going to get you more results. Like working out more, you need a different diet and more sleep. Me doing something more wasn't more results. Me having a different approach and different perspective. So more of one is not more of the results. It was just more of that one thing.

Who's one person that inspires you the most right now?

Right now, my father. He's been my inspiration for many, many years. He doesn't even know it. He's still working 60 hours a week in construction with one hand, and he's the most positive person I know.

Well, if he listened to this podcast, he'll know now.

He doesn't speak English, unfortunately. I have to translate this to him.

So when you're not working in your insurance agency, what do you love to do in your free time?

I do about 15 hours a week time to myself, which I spend either running, swimming, or biking right now. That changes throughout the years, but that's what I've been doing for the last year. A year and a half, I spent a lot of time with my kids. My favorite job since I became a father has been being a dad, not the business owner, not the athlete, has been being a dad. So my most satisfying time is being with my kids. Date nights with my wife, some of the best memories I ever have.

Man, that's an amazing answer. I'm a godfather, so I'm not a father yet. And I gotta tell you that, like, spending time with my goddaughter is just the best thing out there. Like, I just love her to death. I mean, she's amazing. And I don't have, like, enough words to describe how happy she makes me.

Wait until you have your own. I know you will remember my words. Life will be different, purpose for you, existence will change.

I believe it, I believe it. Question: if you hadn't gone into insurance, what industry would you have gone into and why?

I would have probably opened up a construction business and ran that, which I did for a while. I actually just closed it. But you know, and I'll say I don't have a good answer to it. I don't know, I don't know. I would have let faith decide.

Gotcha.

So I know you've talked— obviously fitness has been a huge part of your life and still is. I love hearing about other successful people's rituals. What are some rituals that you have in your life?

Rituals? I, uh, Jesse Itzler wrote a really good book, and when I read this book about 3 years ago, it was called Living with a SEAL. That's when he has David Goggins living with him for a month. He said 7 hours of sleep, 3 hours to yourself, 7 hours in the office, and then 7 more hours with your family and running errands. I've been somewhat copying that schedule, and if I don't begin my day with time to myself, things are different, in the worst way different, right? So as long as I can get up in the morning early and I can get my fitness out of the way, spend time with myself, listen to good podcasts, come into work with a positive message, my entire day is better. So I think that selfish 3 hours to yourself every morning, 2 hours or hour and a half, has been a very big ritual in my life. And then Sunday I go to church. I'm a deacon. I I spend an hour and a half on the altar volunteering. That's a lot of meditative time, praying time. Again, spend time in your head.

Would you say that you're a morning person or a night owl?

I'm a night owl.

I hate mornings.

That's why I wake up early sometimes, because I hate it. No question. I've tried. I'm pushing myself to wake up sooner. And so I just, I hate mornings. Toughest part of my day is getting out of bed. After that, things get easier.

All right, last question. What is the legacy that Hayk wants to leave behind?

That is a very good question, Brad. I want to be a hero for my family. I want my kids and my wife to say, Dad did a good job raising us. He inspired us. He taught us valuable lessons such as great hard work, positivity, faith, that kind of stuff. I think legacy is not financial. It's the memories you leave behind. And I really want to leave good memories behind more than anything else.

Like, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the Club Capital Leadership Podcast. We appreciate your time. This has been fantastic. I hope we can have you back on. If somebody wants to be able to pick up the book The Power of Mindset, what's the best way for them to be able to do that right now?

Amazon and most major bookstores, they don't have it on inventory, but if you ask, they will actually ship it to you and deliver it to you. My good friend just ordered from Barnes Noble, but Amazon has been where 90% of the sales have been happening. So if you want to pick it up from Amazon. Brad and Chris, I want to thank you for having me on your show. I appreciate your time. We spent a really good hour together. I'm fired up. I'm having a good time with you guys, and I appreciate your for making this time for me.

Congratulations on the book.

Thank you so much.

Have a great one, man.

Thanks, Ike. Google makes it easy. Swap a card, pay for marketing. Sure, you get a few more phone calls, but they have nothing to do with your business. The truth is Google can't understand the buyer's intent. Enter Matt and Maddie Jones, the husband-wife duo adding intention to your online marketing game. As a State Farm agent himself, Matt built his business by maximizing the volume and quality of inbound calls. His success led to the creation of DirectClicks, a company helping insurance agents across the country grow their business through online campaigns. They focus on Google Ads so you don't have to spread your budget across the internet. With attention to detail and transparency, they provide monthly review calls, exclusivity, and the lowest cost per click. So before you swipe that card, contact Matt and Maddie Jones at directclicksinc.com. Again, that's directclicksinc.com. Kris, I enjoyed that podcast with Haik. Two things really stood out to me. I enjoyed the conversation, him talking about habits, the importance of habits. And number two, the conversation that we had about the transition from operator to owner, and he gave the analogy or the acronym CAR, clarity, action, activities, and results. I thought that was fantastic. I'm going to take that with me. What are some things that you picked up?

There's three things that I really picked up and got out of speaking with Haik today. Number one being the fact that you attract the kind of people that you are. So if you want to attract quality people, then you must be a quality person. That goes for dating and being an employer. Another thing is getting a PhD in the School of Hard Knocks, which is basically what he says that he obtained. PhD in his mind stands for Poor, Hungry, and Determined. And I think that a lot of us can learn a ton and can make a lot of progress by adopting that mindset. And lastly, I enjoy seeing how an author that created a book about mindset talked a lot about habits throughout the entire podcast, which lets me know that your habits will dictate your mindset. So if you want to think better, simply act better.

Yeah, I really like the PhD, Poor, Hungry, and Determined. I thought that was pretty great too. We want to thank our podcast sponsor, DirectClicks. DirectClicks is an online marketing company that specializes in Google pay-per-click for insurance agents throughout the country. Owned by Matt and Maddie Jonesa, they are fantastic people that are committed to detail and transparency, and quite frankly, just get and deliver results for their clients throughout the country. If you're interested, reach out to them on their website, directclicksinc.com. Again, that's directclicksinc.com, and tell them your friends Bradley and Chris sent you. Chris, until next time, lead well and stay stylish.