#194: The Resilient Actor: Thriving In The Volatile Acting World With Reed Diamond

Oh, man, thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here. And I just— it's so funny, you know, listening to your introduction. And when Adam, our mutual friend, you know, wrote me an email saying, hey, I think you guys would really hit it off, I go, resilience, this is all I've been thinking about. This is literally all I've been thinking about for the last 3 years. You know, I made a very conscious pivot, to use the thesis of this show, 3 years ago. And I've been my own little guinea pig. I mean, in earnest. I mean, this has been just a concentrated period of time, but obviously throughout. But then something also struck me too. I mean, because I'm a fan of yours and I've been listening to the podcast and thinking about gratitude and just the way you talked about meeting people and connecting to people. There's something miraculous. You said being present of if you're in that flow state and you're going through life, it's amazing who will come into your world. And I mean, Adam, our mutual friend, just happened to be dining in the same restaurant, and then we hit it off. And now I've met you. And it's nothing I could have constructed or, you know, strategized to make happen. And then here we are having a conversation about something that I'm passionate about. And I think about every single day. So happy to be here. Thanks, Adam.

More and more, there's just no coincidence. You know, we could go into a lot of theory on that.

Yeah, of course.

There's just— I just— the more I live, the more, the more days I'm blessed to have on this planet, the more I am firmed in believing that there is no randomness to it. There just isn't. So yeah, I mean, not to get all woo-woo. I mean, I'm from New York, you're from New York.

Yeah, of course.

You're in Toronto now, but you've spent a lot of time on the West Coast. So it's, you know, I like to get really practical sometimes. And to me, it's absolutely practical to think that things are on purpose. That's not like wishful thinking. Don't you agree?

Well, I think, and I think it's even as you work on yourself and as you're gonna attract different, someone much smarter than me said, it's more like, As you reform yourself, you cut a different path through the world. So different things will come at you, right? So if you and I are working on— if we're working on being more present and more open, we're going to be attracting different people. I always think about it. There's that John Lennon quote, right? Like, life is what happens while you're making other plans, right? And you really just want to get into life. And I always think about, you know, when you can't find your car keys. And you get really focused and you're like, I got to find these keys. And you're looking around and your brain just starts getting— it just starts constricting into this, just like a clenched fist. Second you stop looking, you know where it is. Or it's like remembering someone's name. And I think, I mean, we're just jumping in, but I mean, there's something about that as going through life. Like if you've got a plan, if you've got a strategy, I mean, certainly in my business, I've encountered so many people who— I mean, you said it so perfectly. I remember in the '90s, it was a big thing. Like you need to network. You need to network. You need to get your network going and you got to— and you could feel people were hustling you and it wasn't organic, but you do need a network of people. But the only way you're going to have real relationships is if they happen organically. And if you have, instead of what can you do for me, Adam? It's like, what can I do for you? We're in this together. It's a mutually beneficial relationship. And we find some point of contact and we find some point we're on the same wavelength. And those things are true. You do need a group of people in a network. And it enhances your life, but you can't do it. I mean, you can, I guess, but you can't really successfully and, and with longevity do it out of some sort of stratagem.

Resilience. It's the unsung hero in every success story that you will ever hear about. And in times of massive change and disruption, the kind of rapid change that we're all experiencing as leaders, as business owners, as entrepreneurs, we have to learn how to not only increase our own resilience, but that of our teams. So right now we have a powerful opportunity for you to find out just how resilient you are. Some years ago, my team and I created the resilience assessment that more than 5,000 business leaders across the globe have taken. And all you have to do to get your own free resilience leader assessment is go to resiliencerank.com. It takes less than 3 minutes, and it's our gift to you for being the leader that you already are. Other free resources and tools will accompany your score instantly. So go to resiliencerank.com. resiliencerank.com. To be in the industry that you're in for as long as you have been and to have been working consistently, you might think that— I think a lot of people would say, well, he's had a great plan for himself, for his career. He's had a great strategy. He's been great at executing it. I'd love to get a sense of how you define that resilience. But before we get there, I just want to track to that thing that you said about Yeah. Restricting, because I want to, I want to follow this little thread here, because there's a part of us, I think, that says, and that we've been taught, you know, it's like the need-tos, the need to— you need to be a great— you need to have a great plan, you need to be planned for things. You know, it was George Harrison— so you brought up John Lennon, which I absolutely love, that wonderful line in his song. I think it was George that said something like, you know, if you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there. So there's this—

Oh yeah.

Feels like there's tension for me between sort of having the plan and, and being really, really sort of rigid almost in, in the, the sticking to the plan piece. And the fact that in the creative arts, like, I do a bit of writing and I speak and, and I wish, you know, I— and acting is, is such an art form, you know, play a little guitar and things like that. And in guitar in particular, I mean, like, for me, if I think too hard, if I'm kind of trying to force it, I can't play. I can see my playing becomes really, really kind of Just awful, really, right? You know, and I would think in acting, it's— is it similar to that? Is it similar? You know.

It's amazing that you brought that up because that's, that's literally what I've been focusing on and talking about as far as art and craft recently with acting. Because I— for a long time, there's always been this debate: is acting a craft or is it an art? And, and I think you use the craft to get to the art. So this is just my personal philosophy of acting, but I think what I'm always looking for is to disengage thinking. You can't use the brain. So I need to create a situation. If I'm doing When I'm doing a scene, what I want to do is get to my instincts and get to whatever— because I know I can go home, a lot of actors can do this, I can go home at night and plan what I'm gonna do the next day. And when I get to this moment, I'm gonna shout, I'm gonna grab the glass on the table, and that's, you know, you can plan it. And that's gonna be fine, and some people are quite successful doing that, and it makes sense. But what I'm looking for is I go, you know, if you and I come together and we're just feeding off of each other, 1+ 1= 1,000,000, because we're gonna elicit out of The other actor, something that we didn't plan. And that's— I'm always looking to create the mistake. I'm looking for things to go a little sideways because what you and I come up with together, not intellectually, not talking about it, but what you and I come up with by reacting off of each other is so much more interesting than anything we could have planned. So that's art. You know, when you talk about writing, you know, there's that book, that great book, The War of Art, where he talks about your whole job as a writer. And I, you know, I translate this to the actor, is to— Is to— Invite the muse and get the muse to come out. And, you know, you could say muse, some people say God, whatever you're saying, but I just think of it as the art. I know that you're gonna bring something out of me that I could never have planned, and it's much more interesting than anything I consciously created. And so the craft is creating a situation where that can come out, which can be challenging because, you know, what I always say, the difference— I think so many people are great actors. A lot of people can act, or musicians, same thing. I also play.

A lot of people can read a line. A lot of people could memorize a script.

Right.

But I don't think a lot of people can act really well. And I guess that's, that's what we're kind of talking about is, you know, is it planned improvisation? Or is it improvised planning? Well,

that's exactly because the thing that makes us professional from an amateur is that you have to do it under the most difficult— you have to do it under horrible circumstances.

Lights, 50 people watching you, seeing you make your mistakes. I

mean, yeah, you have to be, you have to be private in public. You also, there's so many things going against you, right? If I could teach, you know, I'm really con— I really want to start teaching acting for working actors and just offer what are the benefits of what I've learned over the years. But the one thing I've always— I know, and this is my credo, is whatever you think it's going to be like on the day, it's not. They're going to be like, hey, we only got— we got 5 minutes to get this scene before the sun goes down. And you have to create, you have to find some sort of space where you can let that improvisation come out. And this is my personal philosophy. And that's, you know, that's where I know that my talent and And it's funny because, I mean, we'll talk about this because I had sort of a renaissance in my work and the way I was approaching it because I think at a certain point I'd gotten to some sort of plateau and I was doing a lot of stuff that I wasn't— it was lucrative but not necessarily creative fulfilling. But in the last few years, it's been getting back to that initial passion that made me want to be an actor when I was a teenager or even younger. So, and that all comes from like, I just want to play. You know, someone much smarter than I said that acting is a child's game played at a professional Did you go to acting

school, by the

way? I did. I did. I mean, I started—

In New York or— I did.

I went to Juilliard in New York.

Oh, you went to Juilliard.

Yeah. I mean, I— but I'd started younger because I was fortunate, you know, as we talked about growing up in New York City, my plays, the best theater I've ever done in my entire life were the plays that I did at my high school. I had the most amazing teacher, the greatest teacher I'd ever had. And we were doing stuff well beyond our years.

What's his name? You cool to say his name?

Oh, yeah. Michael Gilbert. He was my—

Oh, good. I just want to put that— is he still alive?

Oh, he is. And I love that. I mean, I literally, I still, when I get into a hole, often I'll think about little things that he taught me in 10th grade or 11th grade. And, but those, you know, it's funny, you know, it's like that, you know, you're always trying to chase, like, you know, if you're a heroin addict, you're trying to chase that first high, like those musicals and those plays, like that feeling. But the benefit of it was because we were in New York City and I was doing plays there, the actual representatives would come see you. So I got my first manager when I was doing Diary of Anne Frank in my senior year in high school. So I was— so I started working right away. I started doing commercials, but I— and to pay— and then I ended up paying for Juilliard with a commercial, you know, because back then they used to make a lot of money and they'd run for years. So my first 2 years were paid from one Subaru commercial. But yeah, so I studied. And then of course, over the years— so I went to Juilliard for 4 years and left for a little bit to work, and they let me come back. And, uh, and then I've studied with some I had some great teachers and some horrible teachers in Los Angeles, because I left right after I graduated Juilliard. I did my first play on Broadway, and then I went to LA because I'd never been there. I'd just been in New York my whole life. And I got off the plane, and it was all warm, and I could smell jasmine blooming. I thought, oh, I'll stay here. This is pretty nice.

No kidding.

Exactly right. I

mean, you know— The first time you smell jasmine on the West Coast, if you're an East Coast person, you literally— it's like you're hooked. And I don't know, something about the size of your nose— I got a pretty good beak— it gets in there, and then you're, you're, you never, you're never happy till at some point you go, we're moving there. I'm gonna smell that every minute of my life from here

forward. I'm so glad you had that same reaction because I remember I got off the plane. It was January— I remember it was January 16th, 1992, and I'm walking in the neighborhood. It's dark and the blooming night jasmine— I smell something like, what is this wonderful smell?

It's out of control.

Yeah. Um, but yeah, so I, I did, I, I did study. But, um, yeah, but I really feel as far as like the craft part or the acting part, you know, because I feel My job as an actor, I have, I have 2 lanes that I have to do this work in. I have to be resilient and really think about how I'm being to do my work. And then I also have to, maybe even more difficult, how I'm gonna be about my career and my life and how I am at home.

So the lessons that you were learning back then from this, this mentor that you had,

yeah,

are those the lessons that you've been applying throughout your career and in particular even in the last couple of months when, I mean, when COVID hit? Anybody who's sort of in the performing arts at all was shut down completely. I mean, people who perform in plays, the people that support those plays, public speaking, all of our gigs stopped for a period of time. You know, movie shooting, television shooting, all that stuff just came to a screeching halt, right? So you've had to really practice the resilience.

Well, you know, it's like I feel— I remember when the financial crisis hit, and now obviously with this one, you know, I spend a lot of my life unemployed and trying to get the next job. You know, I have that muscle. So I'm used to— I have a very— I've had to develop a very deep relationship with uncertainty. You know, a coach that I worked with for years, he said, you know, the patron myth of actors is Sisyphus. And, you know, the story of Sisyphus is Sisyphus was cursed or fated to have to push the rock up to the top of the hill every day, and every night it would roll back down. And it's so true. And so even, you know, I've been stars of TV shows, I've been— I've gotten the rock up to the top of the mountain, and it may It may not always slide all the way back down, but it slides down. And he used to always say to me, the quicker you can get back on board with pushing that rock up the hill, you know, then you'll get your head out of your ass. Because what would happen is, you know, this is a very vulnerable— Emotional. It's emotional. Yeah, it's a vulnerable job because you tend— and I counsel, you know, you tend to take things personally, especially when you're younger. And maybe some people always take it personally in my line of work. And you have to remember, it's not personal. And, you know, I— because— but you feel it's personal because your instrument or what you're offering is yourself. So you're going, oh, they're rejecting me, or maybe no one wants me, or I'll never work again.

There's such irony in that, right? Because you've got to access your emotions. That emotional range is so important.

Yes.

And yet you have to also take the emotion out of it on some level when you are making meaning, when you're creating meaning for the rejection. Or for the, you know, the rock going down to the bottom of the hill and having to push it up to the top. There's so many ways that you can, you can give that meaning.

And that's— and you said Stella Adler, famous acting teacher guru, said you need to have the heart of a rose and the hide of a rhinoceros. And but that's a delicate— that's a difficult balance, right? Because sometimes the hide gets too strong or sometimes there's too much heart, right? And you have to— but it's funny because if we talk about conscious pivots, you know, in the last 3 years, like 3 years ago, you know, we were talking before we went on about, you know, midlife crises. And like 3 years ago, really pretty much exactly to this date, everything fell apart. Like, I just— there was a massive breakdown all over. Now, breakdowns are fantastic because that's when you get into the meat and it gets all sticky and you got to figure out who you are. But it was maybe the scariest one of them all because I just turned 50. I had had— the business had really changed in the last few years, which we can talk about at another point. But— and I just come off a show. We were living— our nut was too high. And I really got to this point where I go— and I was breaking up with my representative. And I just, I'd had a period of doing, you know, 5, 6, 7 years of doing work that I wasn't— I was paying the bills, but it wasn't satisfying as an actor. Because I say there's 2 types of jobs that I do. There's the ones where like, I hope I'm good enough. And then there's the ones where I hope I can make this good. But—

I love that. Will you repeat that?

Yeah. So there's where you go, I hope I'm good enough, which is the job you want to do, or I hope I can make this good. Or as Tyne Daly said to me once, she goes, We're in the business of polishing turds, and that's the ones where you hope you can make it good enough, but it's not satisfying. And that's not why I got into this. And I remember it's not really my personality, but I went to a very— it was bleak. And I really— I went to— I got to that point where I go, I think I'm worth more to my family dead than alive. I was like, you know, maybe they can— so maybe something will happen. They can have the life insurance policy, right?

It's a Wonderful Life moment.

That's exactly it. And then you realize, okay, that's not true. It's not true. And I go, I knew. And this is what goes back to the beginning. I started from nothing. I built this career. I've always had a strong work ethic. I was like, okay, you're 50 and you're— this is what you do. Let me use, you know, your show title. I had a conscious pivot. And I was like, you need to dig deep and we got to figure this out. And it was twofold. So, you know, I found a new representative who I'd heard about and I was— and we sat down and she laid it out. She's like, you've been doing all this stuff that you don't want anyone to see. I don't think you should do it. should be doing this. This is what we should be doing. So we were on the career side, we were able to turn that around. But what was more important, and I think, you know, for this show, is I was like, I had to change my attitude, the way I look. I'm excited to push up the rock because I think where I'd gotten to, I'd gotten to a place of where I was searching for rest.

Yes.

And I was searching for like, so when I, when I get a job, I would think about what that would provide for me. And oh, what dinners I could have, what I could do for my family. And I was looking somehow, at a certain point, I'd And I started to look for rest and I was like, that's not who you are. That's not what you're all about. That's not what the world's about. And then so I go, no, no, no, I want rigor. I want to embrace the struggle. I want to embrace pushing the rock up the hill. And so I started to seek out— I mean, I certainly had done a lot of good coaching. I had an amazing coach for years. So all of that stuff was cellular. It was in my bones. So I knew how to access that. And then just things started coming in. And I heard you talk about on one of those podcasts where it was just you talking and you talked about, of course, we can create new neural Pathways and new ways of thinking about stuff, just because you can teach an old dog new tricks. And I go, there were a couple of things that I really wanted to fortify. I go, I need my— I want my concentration to be better. So I, you know, I would actively work on how can I really expand my level of concentration? How can I also— you know, I was always a healthy guy, but I go, yeah, you know, like, let's take it up to the next level. Let's see, you know, how much more energy you can get out of life. Then also the attitude thing, you know, because I, I tended to You spent a lot of time pre-worrying, worrying well before there was time to worry. Because as we were talking about, you know, how an actor is set up for—

I just want to pause for a second.

Sorry.

People are either chuckling right now, laughing, smiling, or— What's that? Did he just say pre-worrying? To put words to that concept that so many of us do, that we spend time in the worry before the worry, the worrying about the worrying, the fear about the fear, the anxiety about the anxiety. Thank you for just articulating that, brother.

I appreciate it. In fact, you know what I started to do when I was coming out of— because I really, I had hit the bottom. I was in the trough and I knew I was going to have to go up the hill. But I would do— because I would pre-worry because as an actor, as an unemployed actor, you go, okay, here's how much money I have. Here's how long I can go. Here's how long my family can eat before I work again.

And I would start— That's your runway, like in startup. That's my runway.

And I would pre-worry and I go, no, no, no.

My burn rate and my—

Yeah, totally. Right? So what I would do is I would literally get a calendar out and I would figure out, I go, here's when you're allowed to worry about this. I would put it in the calendar. You've got like 2 months from now, this is a problem. It's not a problem right now. And that was the other thing too, because that was a big adjustment of there was some sort of catastrophizing that I was doing, which was just a habit. And it wasn't true. And this speaks to resilience. I go, you've got this in you. You get it. You may have to dig a little deeper and work through it. It may be ugly for a little while, but you've got this muscle. We just need to make it stronger. And so I really focused on making that muscle stronger and being disciplined about not catastrophizing, certainly in front of my family, because it doesn't make your relationships better. I would never do it in front of my child, but with my wife, I go, I know it's unattractive. It's not true. And also, okay, things change, right? The world changes. And I'm not the type of person who's going to give up. So I really just need to build these muscles back up. And it's interesting, I was living in the country and I've been living in the country for years. And you look at the animal kingdom, you look at nature, it's like no one's resting. No one has time to rest. Every day, it's like— and once I sort of made that internal shift, that conscious pivot, once I made that shift, I was like, then it got exciting. Now, the challenges, which we can talk about, are daily because I think what the myth of Sisyphus actually teaches you, and which was an important lesson for me to learn, and I talked to some successful business people I knew here who said the same thing, you got to create it every day.

Yes.

Every day you have to recreate it because what happens is because I think there's so much uncertainty in my business, what I end up wanting to do is your thought is that you're going to get to some place where there's no more struggle and you can just, you can glide, you can coast, and that's death. And I'd gotten there creatively and I'd gotten there career-wise. And now in the last 3 years, and the fruits have been born over the last couple of years, is It's like I've shifted that. So I'm only— I've now gone from doing shows, not embarrassed of, but I'm never going to say, hey, Adam, check me out on this show. Now I'm doing— I'm working great shows on Netflix and Amazon and— sorry.

I really hope you're enjoying this episode of the Change Proof Podcast. If you've not yet gone out and gotten your own copy of Change It's not too late. You can get your copy right now by going to changeproof.com and not only getting the book and all the bonuses there, but getting access to our proprietary resilience assessment tool. It'll just take you 3 minutes to do, and it's something that will really help you to utilize the book even more effectively to create practices and rituals and habits that will increase your mental, emotional, physical, and even spiritual resilience for the long term. Again, go to changeproof.com to get your copy today. The irony, I mean, of it is on some level that we resist uncertainty. We see uncertainty as a threatening thing because that's kind of how we've been wired for, I suppose. And yet, the only certainty is that everything is uncertain. I mean, there's a sense of that being absolutely true. So how do you leverage uncertainty? How do you embrace uncertainty? And before you answer that question, I just wanted to bring it up because I was looking for the title to this book that when you mentioned catastrophizing, I grew up hearing about that word because my dad studied— he is a writer. He, to this day, writes a lot of fiction and he's written screenplays and plays and things like that. And at a certain point, he was studying with Lee Strasberg and there were some— Oh, cool.

Oh, really?

Yeah, really, you know, actor studio stuff like that. It was pretty cool. But there was another dude that he, that he encountered while he was going through his anxious times early in life, and the guy's name is Albert Ellis. So I want to just put a shout out to people out there who've never heard of Albert Ellis, but this guy is sort of the father of something called rational emotive therapy, which then later on, I'm not sure how it morphed into cognitive behavioral therapy, but that's something a lot of people have heard of. And there's a book that I read read over the summer when we were spending some time up in Maine called Stubbornly Refuse to Make Yourself Miserable. Like, just check out this title, right? Stubbornly Refuse to Make Yourself Miserable by Albert Ellis.

Yeah.

So anybody that feels like they pre-worry— so any of the stuff that Reid was just sharing with us, I think if that— if you were just sort of yes-ing to that, you know, going, yep, that's, that's me, I think this is a great book for you all because his whole thing was sort of setting up the ways in which we make ourselves miserable. And often it can just be seen in the language that we use. When we examine our thoughts, it's one thing, but our thoughts are pretty, you know, it's like it's a lunatic asylum inside most people's heads. But what comes out of their mouth is a little bit, you know, less insane usually. But even those words are super telling. And so the words that sort of connote a, you know, something has to happen. Right. It should. These are the shoulds. These are the musts. In fact, he coined this thing called musturbation, which, you know, probably Jeffrey— is it Jeffrey Toobin? Everybody's using this poor guy's name right now.

Pretzel Dude.

I guess I just did it too. But it's like, you know, it's masturbation. It's the idea of constantly musting and shitting and creating these catastrophes out of things that just aren't, especially in the greater context that things are impermanent and against the greater backdrop that not everything that we worry about or every instance where we're worrying is even useful for anything. You know, that's why the pre-worrying thing is such a gag, right? Because it's like, how could pre-worrying be useful? You know?

Right. You know, if you're really—

Does that help you be a better actor? Because—

No.

No? Are you sure about that?

Exactly. No, of course, pre-worrying, no, because it's not— it's an addiction. It's just a familiar emotional— because it's not emotional. It's a familiar psychological state that you put yourself into. And it's a habit. And it's a habit that has to be broken. You know, because as I was— I remember, like, as I I was another great friend who's like an older brother to me. And he's— of course, things come in as we talk about, you know, he handed me a bunch of Stoic philosophy right as all this was going on. And the thing you take away from that is, you know, all I have control over is what I do, my actions and my thoughts. Right. And, and that's a mental discipline, you know. So obviously, you— this thing, this brain.

And isn't that the rock at the bottom of the hill every day?

Yeah.

You're talking

Of course. But if you, you know, and you, I mean, you know, you're obviously, you're so advanced at this, but it's like what you, you have to retrain yourself. You have to build new muscle. Like, you know, if you want to, you know, if you want to race in the, you know, in the Tour de France, you're gonna have to get different muscles going. So if you want to be, you know, mentally strong, you're gonna have to, you know, obviously went back to meditating religiously, exercising much, much more, and not indulging Not indulging the BS because it's not helpful and not bringing anything that's not helpful and trying to stay as present and not catastrophizing or pre-worrying and being able to dig deeper. You know, and then people I'm staying with here, my friend Kate Warren, she's a big-time corporate coach. And we became friends because we'd be together at little dinners here and I'd be talking about stuff that I'm struggling with or bad days I had on set and what I learned about it. And she really introduced me to Tim Gallwey and Inner Game of Tennis.

Oh man, are you kidding me?

Yeah. It's changed my creative life. It's changed my on-set life because, you know, his simple formula is performance is potential minus interference. And that interference thing is key because there's external interference, but I find certainly with someone like myself that there's so much personal interference where I'm getting in my own way. And it's been such a powerful tool to be aware of that, to know that my performance Is any— is my potential, but any interference is gonna subtract from that. And it's been— it's very interesting because now when I go to work, I've had a couple of— I'll give you a specific instance. So I was shooting 13 Reasons Why last year, and it was like my first day on set. And we did— it was just a little scene, and I did the first take, and I thought, this is great. I did this. It's going well. I feel like this is the right guy. But the director comes over and gives me a note. I'm like, okay. And then I do it again. I'm like, the same sort of note. And I'm going, I think I'm doing— this is going really well. I don't know what the hell's going on. And by the 3rd take, when he gives me this note that I don't completely understand, I—

So it's like a little sticky when you say a note?

Well, no, I'm sorry. A director gives you a note. He goes, hey, you know, be more happy, be faster.

Oh, this is feedback.

It's a director's note. Yeah, he's feedback. So between each take, sometimes—

It's not a physical note. It's like a whisper in your ear. Yeah, say it out loud.

Sorry, that's the— I didn't mean to be too inside baseball. That's in, in my business, when a direction— a director has a direction, it's called a note.

Called a note.

A note. Sorry. Oh, great.

Is it a love note?

It can be. That's my favorite kind. As Hugh Grant said, what does he look for in a director? And he said, sycophancy. But, but so I started— I could feel because now the other thing, you know, you need to be aware of your system and how it reacts. And I could feel myself when I'm feeling effed up, I start to— Resist? I implode, I start to go inside. And I was like, and I could feel myself starting to shut down a little bit. And I go, okay, all right, so something's going on over where the director and the writers are that you, you need— because you know you're doing well, but someone's not communicating something. So instead of imploding, why don't we just go clear this up? So I just walked right over and I said, hey, I'm confused because I feel like this is going really well. And I can tell by the way he's giving these— reluctantly giving me these notes— that there's something else that you're looking for. And then the writers, because we open up the communication, like, oh yeah, you know, the head writer who's not there, he kind of wants something like that. And I go, well, that would have been nice to tell me, but thank you for telling me now. Now I completely understand. And we have— now we can get there together. And so by opening up that communication, for years I would have been too— I just would have been thinking about, okay, I can't wait to have a drink when this is done, you know, the end of the day. But now I'm going, no, no, no, I'm really here to like to get to the bottom of it. And I'm not gonna— even if I'm— the interference is just in my head, I want to clear it up so we know we're on the same page. And that's been really a really powerful tool at work. I mean, I had it the other day. I was just shooting Bosch. And I had an idea about what the scene was— not an idea, we were playing it a certain way. And then I kept getting a note that It just didn't make sense. And I could feel it. I could feel— because you need to know your tells. You need to know when you're hooked and when your head's up your butt. You need to know what's doing that. And for me, there's a— you can make a little list of it. I know what mine are. I'll either start getting a little— I'll get a little rebellious, or I'll start thinking about leaving, going home. I'll think about just little things. Or I can feel like a little tightness in my chest, you know, whatever it is. Yeah. You know, everyone's at a certain point, if you're studying yourself, you know your tells. And I go, well, this isn't going gonna make for a good scene. This isn't gonna make me a good scene partner. This isn't gonna elevate whatever we're trying to do.

You have that level of self-awareness as you're under the lights, in the pressure, meaning in the pressure cooker, film is rolling. I don't know if film rolls anymore, but the card— people are there, people are being paid to listen to you do your thing. And in the midst of that high pressure, like, you're, you know, it's like you've got the ball on the field and cameras are on. And And in that moment, you're aware, you're present enough to be aware, hey, you know what? I got a little tightness in my chest.

But that's the challenge. That's literally my job is to do that. And I don't always do it. You know, I've started taking— I took this from David Goggins' book. I do, oftentimes at the end of work, I'll do a debrief. I'll write an after-action report about how— what I thought went well and what I thought didn't go well. Because cut to last week, I was doing another scene where I did it. I did implode. And I didn't implode, but I shut down a little bit. Every day is pushing the rock up the hill. And I go, okay, here's the things that you could have been paying more attention to, and here's maybe how you could have resolved that issue or opened up the conversation a little bit more. So, you know, what we talked about creating it every day, that's the excitement and that's the challenge, right? And that's, that's been the most important.

That's the discipline.

That's the discipline.

This is the vigilance that we're talking about. It doesn't make life easy. It doesn't make things easy. It makes things meaningful. But it's that old song, right? No one promised you a rose garden or whatever. It's like,

right,

you know, like it's not been promised. Nobody's been promised an easy life.

Right.

But we should be looking for a meaningful life or a life where, where you're—

yeah,

a life of growth. I mean, isn't that one of the things that comes out of dealing with uncertainty? I mean, like dealing with our BS is in many ways dealing with the way we create meaning out of the world around us, and we can see it as anything we want to see it. So, how do you deal with uncertainty? I want to just come back and touch that because you mentioned it earlier. And this, you know, just fascinating to me, this concept that we're all in even more uncertain times right now. And I think it is, it's hurting, it's painful for a lot of folks.

It is. No, I know. And I feel, yeah, I mean, because in certain Uncertainty is my bread and butter. It's a state that I have had to live in off and on for 35 years. Those moments of certainty are great, but you also know that they are fleeting and they will end. All shows end. I mean, I think you need to have— okay, so you know the story of Pandora's box?

I do.

The story of Pandora's box, I guess apparently was a jar because they didn't have boxes, but the whole idea was that it was opened and all of the emotions and all of the things were released into the world. And the only thing that remained in the box was hope. And people often interpret that as, oh, that's great. At least we have hope. But then the other contrary interpretation is like, no, hope is the most dangerous psychology or emotion in the world. And I'll tell you, so this is a fine line. There's a difference between hope and faith. And one, faith, you know, faith without action is no faith at all. But like faith is important. Hope is like, I hope something's going to happen. There's a passivity. Passivity to it, like something's going to be done for me. Someone's going to take care of you. You need to have faith, and I think faith is built out of your track record, out of what you know. You can look back. You like I mean certainly with uncertainty, I go, "You've gotten through this before." Yeah, and then now the the goalposts move and the game changes. You know, certainly when I really hit bottom at fifty, it's I'm a fifty-year-old actor as opposed to a twenty-year-old actor. There are different parameters in this game, but still that faith of going, okay, I know I've got this in me. I may have to dig a little deeper, but I can get through this. Also, what is this time telling me? Because I've never learned anything from a success in my entire life. I've never had a lesson that I could apply or some sort of great change I could execute. I've only learned from a breakdown. And it was Kate, who I'm staying with here, she has this great thing where she talks about fail quickly and learn and keep failing quickly. And the quicker you fail and the quicker you sort of learn the lesson— someone even smarter than I ever talked about, it's all about the ship is falling to the side, but if you do it fast enough, if you right yourself fast enough, it looks like the ship is standing up. And so, yeah, I invite failing quickly and trying to learn the lessons. I mean, I think the most important thing that I learned in this sort of last breakdown was there were a couple of lessons I didn't want to have to keep relearning. Because I think sometimes you keep making the same mistakes. And I don't want to keep that. I was like, OK, you've gotten to a certain age where you're going to have to let that go. We need to really get to just the kernel, to the core of what's going on with this. Why do you keep making this same— Certainly, obviously, we're We're predisposed in our personalities to repeat certain things. But there were a couple of things I wanted to check off the list. But uncertainty, yeah, I think you need faith. And I think you need to work. But also, I think you need to open up to what— there are other things. So if we get myopic, like we're just going back to looking for the keys or trying to find the word, if you go, fuck, I got to get a job. And this is the only time. And you're going to tighten up.

Exactly.

And you just have to loosen up. I mean, in a weird way, if I could have earned an income during quarantine, that was the only Negative. I loved it. I loved it. It was great to be with my family. You know, it was all—it was great to have everyone in the same house. We really got down to what mattered. That's the other thing too. Like what's really important, and I actually—I loved it. It was just—it was a wonderful time to be together and and really stay connected. And I—you know—a certain point you're gonna have to make a job, but also get a job. But I also realized, well, there's opportunity in this moment too. Like obviously the paradigm. Has shifted, right? There's going to be places, new places. I mean, what you're doing, I mean, the whole— what's so great right now, which quarantine has really— and COVID has— this time has really illuminated is that there's a lot of middlemen you don't need. You can make your own product, right? We don't need, you know, so—

Everybody can be their own source of media. I mean, that's exactly it. Everybody can have a voice. Everybody can have a creative— take a position and have an impact in the world. I mean, that's— we teach— part of what we love to do is we teach people how to develop high-impact talks, whether it's a TEDx talk or it's to get on stage and speak and deliver a keynote, or right now, you know, virtual keynotes and workshops. This is something that's open to anybody.

Yeah.

Whereas it used to be there was a different price of admission.

For sure.

Years ago, and certainly pre-COVID and even, you know, sort of years and years before that. And I think that that has been a game changer for sure. So just going back to your turning 50 and that sort of—

yeah,

going from having a midlife crisis to having more of a midlife midlife sort of reset.

Reset, yeah.

My similar event happened before I was 50, but we like to refer to it as the midlife calling.

Yeah, that's great.

Your method, the method that you used, is that how you define resilience today? Is that what informs that definition of resilience for you? How it is that you handled that moment where, yeah, your career had not ground to a halt, but it had stalled, it seems, and you were concerned about money and concerned about other things. And yeah, so just maybe give us a little of the essence of how it is that you look at that today and whether, in fact, it does inform your definition of resilience. And if it doesn't, how do you define resilience?

No, I think it completely defines resilience. And that's what I had to really develop. And also understanding that I'm my own guinea pig. And so there's a lot of experimentation that I'm doing. So you're going to— I'm going to try— and also, Knowing that things won't— what worked today may not work tomorrow. So creating it every day, but definitely resilience. I had to build back up.

Creating it every day.

Creating it every day.

Improvisation, which is a—

Improvisation is everything.

It's a part of it.

Yeah.

The art and even the story.

I did a lot of comedy improv on stage for years and years and years. And I always— that was the greatest thing that I did. After high school, yeah, that was the greatest thing that ever came to my career because what would end up happening on TV, oftentimes they'll call me the night before and they're like, be here tomorrow. And you don't have time to do a deep preparation. But what I remembered from improv is I can create a whole show from one word suggestion that the audience gives. So staying improvisational, but also knowing what, you know, really knowing what your talent is and knowing what your strengths are. So for me, I need to be improvisational. It needs to feel like play for me. I need to be in a place playful space. So I knew that I had to protect that. But also, I just had to go— I had to build up a lot more muscles. The Goggins book had this great example. He said most people go to 40%, and then they just tap out because their brain is saying, you know what? Let's give an example of exercise. They go, you're going to hurt yourself. Stop. But if you push past 40%, you'll find you get an endorphin rush, first of all. And then you're suddenly like, oh, I got 60% still in the tank that I I hadn't even accessed. And it's funny because I tried it one morning. I did like a very, like, just a very linear experiment on that. I woke up one morning. I was like, I'm going to try to do 100 push-ups in my kitchen right before I do anything. And like clockwork, at like push-up 40, I'm going, hey, no, you might hurt your shoulder. And I was like, no, you little— you know, I can be a little punitive with myself. I would never talk to anyone the way I talk to myself. But I was like, no. And I pushed through. And then suddenly, after you push, the last 60 push-ups were much easier than the first 40. And I was like, okay, this is important. You know, where you think your limit is, I think there's more. And

where you're feeling discomfort. So, you have people right now who are in tremendous discomfort.

Yes.

Pain, you know, living in that uncertainty or fear that's born out of that uncertainty. What you're saying, I think, is that dealing with yourself on that level of, let's say, you know, I'm 100% able to deal with myself or I'm only 40% able to deal with the pain that my mind is creating because there's There's very few situations where people are actually being forced to feel the way they feel, right? I mean, it's the one true freedom that we have is the feelings that we entertain, the thoughts that we create and entertain. I mean, that's really our only freedom when you think about it, right?

That's exactly it. And discomfort, you know, somewhat there was a distinction between there's suffering, which is like hope. It's passive, but there's discomfort. And a coach I worked with for years, he's like, when you're climbing Everest, you're uncomfortable, right? You're not suffering, but you're uncomfortable. And, and having more hang time with that. So now it, uh, you know, certainly my work ethic has expanded, but, but like I say, when we talk about, you know, when I said it's refining that passion that got me started. So I'm so excited about acting now. Like, I've found whole new depths of my love of my craft, but then also And also, I have a lot more energy and confidence for the career part, from the work that has to go into that.

Right.

And that's been essential because I did— there were times where you can't— especially because my business has really changed because it's gotten a lot tighter for me. I mean, there's a lot less work for a white guy in his 50s, right? Which, as it should be. So now, when I'm going in, when I'm competing, I'm competing with the best. I'm competing with everyone you No. Um, you know, when I walk into a room— when there used to be rooms, there won't be rooms anymore— but when I used to go to audition the last 2 years, I know everyone in that room, and you know everyone in that room, right? So you're going, this is great. And so that excitement about bringing your A-game, um, I've gotten that back, that fun, you know. And also knowing too, within— within— and, and you, you're much— you'll be able to speak to this, but at least within acting, I feel my competition is just myself. I'm competing with me because, knowing— because yes, I am literally competing against them, but really I'm either right or I'm not right. And it's about, can I get out of my own way to do my best work?

Yeah. This is about— to me, what you said earlier is so meaningful that this is the difference between rigor and rest, that the sort of the mentality that rigor is actually good for you. It's good for the soul. It's developing you. Yeah. It's a— I'm a big believer in the importance of rest when it comes to resilience, but I think the way you were talking about rest, it was almost like resignation. It was almost a little bit like, just as you say, coasting. Like, can't I just coast at this point? Can I make enough to just coast? I mean, I was watching an interview with Matthew McConaughey. He was actually on Bill Maher the other night. Right. He was a great guest to have on. And he, you know, in the same profession as you, hit kind of a different kind of a wall, like where the guy was, you know, well sought after to be shirtless in a rom-com, you know, and has to decide whether that's ultimately, you know, his total legacy as an actor. And he says, no, you know, I don't want to do any more rom-coms. I don't want to be that shirtless guy necessarily, even though it was kind of funny because he says, well, those rom-coms paid for the houses on the beach that—

Right, exactly.

It's kind of both, either or, right? But at a certain point when he decided, you know, I don't want to do that anymore, but yet the industry made up its mind about who he is and what they expect from him, you know, the quote typecast. Well, it was a good 20 months before he had a gig, you know, something he turned down.

Yeah, right.

And 20 months is, you know, at a certain point, uh, your, your self-confidence can atrophy. There's a lot of things can go, go sideways, especially if you have time on your hands and money to And he had to reinvent himself. And obviously, you can see that he's been able to successfully do that. And I think in part it's because it's something you said earlier, which is that you learn how to improvise as part of actor's training.

Mm-hmm.

Whether you're going to be doing comic work or not, you know, improvisation is such a big thing. And to me, when it comes to pivoting, when it comes to being resilient, and what I'm taking away from you is that improvisation is a key ingredient. It's Canadian. So, your ability to wake up every day, we'll talk about what that looks like when we're winding things down in just a couple of minutes here, but to wake up every day and realize that you have the gift of this new day, what are you going to do with it? It's from the Bible. There's that story about the Jews wandering in the desert and led out of Egypt by Moses. And there's a point where where it's told to them, I don't know whether it was Moses or it came some other way, but they're told, don't save the manna, the stuff that will sustain them, the food. Don't save it. Don't save it for the morrow. Don't save it for tomorrow. Eat what you've got today and more will be provided. Right. So when you talked about faith earlier, that's what was going on for me is the faith that more will be provided, that we'll be able to wake up tomorrow if we're lucky enough to wake up tomorrow. Tomorrow and, and have the, the faith, have the self, the trust, the confidence in our— to be able to improvise in the moment and be all right. But so much of that pre-worrying is worrying about, about whether there will be enough, whether there will be, you know, enough to sustain me, etc., you know. And, and I think that constricts, that constricts everything. You can't, you can't improvise when you're, when you're all you know, knotted up like that.

No.

And I think acting is such a great lens to see that through, because bad acting is really easy to spot.

Sure. I

mean, it really is. And authentic acting, acting that doesn't feel like— when you feel like the person you're seeing is actually the character they're portraying, there's something so glorious about that. And it really is. And it's so funny, 'cause as we started this episode, I said I don't believe in accidents. I don't believe in randomness,

right?

Things. And and I want to I want to sort of as we as we bring it in for for landing here, I want to say what happened the other night. So I realize you're on the schedule. I actually didn't realize you were on the schedule for today because I don't look ahead that far. So I mean, I try as much as possible.

Yeah, smart.

Live whatever the message is coming through me is. I try to live it. So I don't I don't look to next week to see who's on the show and what's going. on because we have systems in place. And I know that— Exactly. You know, right, God willing and all that, there will be a next week. There'll be a tomorrow, right? I'm gonna— I'm counting on that.

Exactly.

There'll be tomorrow. Hopefully I'll be there for it. So I didn't know you were on the show for today, and I'm lying on the couch, the fireplace is going, my wife is in her classic position, which is she starts out right there next to me and is wide awake for us to watch something or whatever. And then 10 seconds later, she's asleep. I'm holding her feet, massaging, and she's—

Of course.

Like, so I go, well, what am I going to watch now? And I'm flipping through, and I, I go to an old movie, dude. I go to a movie that I haven't seen in so many years. And, and, you know, sometimes I'm in the mood to watch something I've seen before and I love. You know, I could watch Life of Pi again and again and again.

Yeah, right.

Or back in the day, you know, like a Chariots of Fire or something. But I flip past and I go, all right, I got to watch this thing. And I turn on Moneyball. All right. Literally Thursday night. So this is 4 or 5 days ago. I turn on Moneyball and I watch Moneyball from start to finish. The next day, I'm on a Zoom call with our mutual friend, Adam.

Right.

And I tell him, I start riffing on what I got out of Moneyball. Like, you're not going to believe it. I watched this last night and I just love this. And he and I are both sports fans. We start going off on it and he goes, well, don't you know that Reid Diamond is playing— is it Mark Shapiro? Is that the guy?

Mark Shapiro.

Yeah. He goes, he's Mark Shapiro in that movie. I go, what? Are you fucking kidding me? No way. But then it gets even better, right? So he says to me, well, when's Reid gonna be on the show? And I go, I, you know, I don't handle the scheduling of this stuff. I don't know. I know we, we connected, blah, blah, blah. So I ask when. Yeah. Hey, when's Reid gonna be on the show? you know, it's Monday. It's literally a couple of days later. And so people that— well, I don't— listen, there are no accidents. This was just truly trippy, man. Like, so yeah, and I don't know why I was, I was called to watch that movie. But I gotta say this, to just take it back to the point.

Great.

Your, your portrayal of Mark Shapiro in that movie was Brilliant. I mean, I loved it. And I said that to him. So I was talking about it before he even told me that that was you, because I didn't know that was you. But that guy sitting behind the desk, you know, doing what he was doing and interacting with— what's our— what's our boy's name? Billy Bean, I got. But the actor—

Brad Pitt.

Yeah, right. So, you know, name escaped me, but small-time actor, right? I just thought, geez Louise, that, that was just— it was just a great portrayal. And yeah, I thought Brad Pitt, who I absolutely love— I love his— I love the roles that he takes.

He's amazing, yeah.

This was a brilliant role. And you know what, just for the sake of it, I'd love to get a sense, what's it, you know, working with somebody like that, um, his craft and your craft, are they compatible? Because you guys on screen were dynamite together. Looked like— I mean, just like 2 guys doing what you were doing, you know, wrangling over a player.

There's no accidents. It brings it back to the theme that you just talked about, improv So, on that scene, um, it was the first day of shooting, uh, the scene with Brad, and we'd had a rehearsal on the Friday before. And I remember, uh, there was a scene that was written by Aaron Sorkin, and then Brad came in with his own rewrite of the scene. Now, Brad being Brad, 'cause he's—

'Cause he's allowed to do that.

No, but also 'cause he's this uber mensch, he gave me much more to do in the scene that he rewrote. So, he was very generous. And so, we show up on the first day, But then what ended up— what ended up happening, and we did actually shoot that one on film, is we improvised. So for the first half of the day, which is 6 hours, the camera's pointed towards Brad and the director's sitting beneath the camera and the mags would last for, I don't know, 20 minutes or whatever like that. The mag is what the film is. And we would just keep doing it until they ran out and they'd reload it. And I was given carte blanche and he was amazing to work with. So we just improvised that scene over and over again. all— we went crazy places. At one point, I was Captain Kirk in the chair. And he was amazing to work with. But then it was interesting because we get to lunch.

And all the— This is the Carlos Francone scene, right? This is the—

Exactly. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And, and we get to lunch and some of the guys are standing behind him. They go, that was amazing. And I go, yeah, it hasn't happened yet, though, because I haven't been on camera. So we had to redo it. You know, we have to do my side when we come back.

Right.

But it It was, and then luckily we did it in about 2 hours 'cause I was like, I don't know if I can improvise for another 6, but he was wonderful to work with. But that was a perfect experience. So he's open, you know, and you know the number one, the main tenet of improv is yes, and. Have you heard that before?

I haven't.

So in a scene, so that is the main philosophy of never deny and yes, and. So if you say like, oh, that's a lovely blue hat, you go, I go, yes, it was given to me by the King of France, you know? So I've agreed with you. It's agreement and then furthering. And it's a great philosophy for life, because some of the best people in the world are improvisers, because they know. They know that all boats rise together. And that's my philosophy of work and life. It's like, let's all get up there together, not like, let me cut the legs out from you. But Brad Pitt, who— it's funny, the 2 biggest movie stars I've ever worked with, Clooney and Brad, they're the same guy. Generous or more fun to work with. And so we had a blast and we improvised that thing and we yes-anded. And sometimes, you know, and we— sometimes you go down a road that's— it's not going to make it in the movie, but it was fun and it brought stuff out. And so that was one of the most magical experiences where everything comes together. But also, you know, it's about who he's being. He was the biggest— you know, he's incredibly gorgeous and the biggest star, but the nicest, nicest guy. Never left set, just ate sandwiches with everybody else and hung out. And And was an amazing scene partner and made me, you know, because it made me feel completely invested in it. And so that was— it's— I love that you say it because it brings it back to your main theme of improv, because that's what that scene was. And that's why that movie was so great, is because people stopped acting and they were really having real experiences. And eventually you'd get back to the script and you'd say the scripted lines. But that was a great, great— you know, that was a pinnacle.

Wow. The pace of change over the last couple of years has been rapid. And if you're a leader, a business owner, an entrepreneur, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Every day it's something different, something new. But the one thing that I've learned in performing at the height of all of those roles has been that we must be resilient. In fact, it's the unsung hero in every success story that you will ever hear about. And it's the reason why my team and I created the resilience assessment that more than More than 5,000 business leaders across the globe have taken, and all you have to do to get your own free Resilient Leader Assessment is go to resiliencerank.com. It takes less than 3 minutes, and it's our gift to you for being the leader that you already are. Other free resources and tools will accompany your score instantly. So go to resiliencerank.com and find out just how resilient you are. We're going to get back to scripted lines. So people that are listening to this and wanting to go back to something that was more familiar beforehand, and obviously there's been tremendous loss. And so I don't say this in any way, and I keep saying this because it bears repeating for me to just be on record for myself as saying I'm not looking past the suffering and genuine loss that exists. And that's, you know, I get emotional just thinking about that. For sure. And at the same time, utilizing what is. So in public speaking or in facilitation of trainings and things like that, we often talk about utilizing what is. And it's that improv. That's the whole idea is that there's, there's always something there that we can make use of.

Yeah.

And that's what makes it worthwhile. That's why it's never a waste. So even the suffering, even the pain, these are things we will make use of as a society, each of us individually, in our families. And that's really tough as we're grieving to know that that somehow or another, this is— this too shall teach. This too shall be something that we ultimately get to use and create alchemy out of, which is beautiful. So, man, I, you know, feel that we could talk for a really long time.

It was a pleasure. Yeah.

This has been a blast. I know people are going to dig it a lot. I will ask you one final question, then I'm going to share something about my waking ritual. Is there something that you do on a ritual basis to help you to just to remind you of some of this, these really important things? Or is there something you do ritualistically just to build your physical, your mental, emotional, or spiritual resilience that you'd like to share?

Obviously, it's, it's out there in the ether about, you know, you got to win the morning, win the day, right? So I certainly have— I start the day discipline, and the first thing I do is get up and I make my bed, right? Make my bed right away. And then I pour some coffee, and then Meditate and get the day started right. I exercise every day, but I also try to make it happen at different times throughout the day because that's the other thing. Because with my work, I work 12-hour days, 14-hour days when I'm working, and I need to be as mentally fit at the end of the day. So I try not to— because for me, there's certain routines that I think are very valuable, but for me also, I don't want to get into some sort of ritual that then ends up turning into super Right? Like, if these— if A, B, C doesn't happen, then I can't do my job. Because I can always do my job. If I, you know, this morning, it's early here on the West Coast, I didn't have time to meditate. I just had time to make some coffee. And I was like, you know, I hope I can speak.

You don't want to be like those guys in Bull Durham. Remember the guys with the— he had to put the chicken on the bat. He had to put the—

Exactly. You don't want to be that.

On the bat.

Because it's not true, because it is an improv, right? So every day is different. And I just had faith that you and I were going to hit it off. We hadn't met, but I was like, we're gonna, we're gonna find something. We're gonna have a conversation. I don't know where it's going to go, but I'm sure we'll talk about something interesting. But yes, I'm very disciplined right now about meditating. Also, the biggest thing, the only muscle that I didn't talk about— I guess we talked about concentration. That's been the thing. So very little device time, going back to reading much, much more because I need to be able to stay concentrated for long periods of time. And I could see that that muscle had completely atrophied because of all of the distractions that we have. So I take that very seriously. And then exercising every day, different I think those, you know, and the most important thing is like controlling my thoughts, my actions, you know, being, you know, being responsible for them and making sure the collars and the cuffs match, that I'm walking the walk and being who I say I want to be.

Right. One good thing about this time that we're living in now, and maybe this is not the case for you, for me it is, I don't have to think about matching my socks to my shoes anymore.

Exactly. You don't. No, I know.

I'm saving a bunch of money on socks and shoes and pants.

No, it's great.

Oh, man. Well, listen, I think winning, as you said, when you win the morning, you win the day. And I want people to, if you haven't heard that before, or if you have heard that before like I have, but just haven't thought about that in a while, it's a great— it's just such a— it's so concise. Sometimes when you just put something in your pocket like that, it's like picking up a stone or something, you know, something really powerful about something that packs that kind of wisdom in so such a, you know, something bite-sized. So win the morning. That's it. Win the morning. How do you win the morning? So that begs the question, how do you win the morning? Well, for me, how you win the morning, how I win the morning, is by how I wake up. I got to do like my grandmother said years ago. She says, just leave that, you know, leave on the right foot. Don't leave— take that first step out of the— on the right foot. Exactly. So to me, the right foot isn't— isn't— and I'm not saying this is wrong for anybody else, but it's not picking up my cell phone. It's not checking email or looking at text messages or Facebook or anything like that. So that's not the right step for me to start the day. The right step isn't to begin the worry process, to think about work too quickly.

Right.

It's not to turn on the TV and watch the insanity that's happening all over, all over. I mean, all over the globe, but certainly in our country at the moment. Those are just the nots. The, the what I do every morning that, that is the right step for me is I get out of I get out of bed to begin with. I put my feet on the floor. I recognize in that moment that not everybody's doing that today. There are people that went to bed when I went to bed last night, put their head on the pillow, didn't wake up, right? That don't get another day.

That's good.

Like we said earlier, that, that it's such a gift this day. What we do with it's our choice— how we improv, how we apply some of those things that you were sharing with us, how we lean into Rigor and not feel like rigor's tough. Like, it's not. Life is about rigor. Like, we have to develop our rigor. We'll have a lot of time to rest at some point. I mean, that's true too. So I have sort of 3 things I do at the beginning of the day. I wake up. So I hope everybody's right now going, yeah, I'm going to wake up tomorrow. You down for that, Reid?

I'm down for that. All right, brother.

Good. Check. something to appreciate, be grateful for in that waking moment.

100%.

Down for that too. Yeah. And then the third piece, which is something I say out loud that I really believe that we get to claim our good. That's kind of an old metaphysical term, comes from Emmet Fox. How do we claim? You know, like the way people used to stake a claim back in the old gold rush days. You're staking your claim by the first thing that comes out of your mouth. Like we've already had a lot of thoughts by the time that we've, you know, kind of put our feet on the floor. a dozen or 10 dozen thoughts, whatever, but what's the first thing that comes out of your mouth, I think, is really, really telling. And for me, it's these 4 simple words. I did a TED Talk that was all about these 4 words, I love my life. That's it. I love my life. And today, it's kind of comma. There's kind of a comma after that that says, no matter what, no matter who's president, no matter anything that you can think of that you feel uncertain about or that I feel uncertain about, I'm going to love my life no matter what. So, you know, maybe, maybe those are words that, that fit, fit for you in your life, Reid, or maybe it's other words. And for everybody out there, just choose something. Doesn't have to be those words, obviously, you know, but you start the day on the right foot, I guess. Yeah. Reid, it's been just a blast. Thank you so much. I

love it. Thanks, Adam. Yeah, it's been fantastic.

Any final words you want to say?

No, I just love that you said that because that's, you know, and that's in the darkest moments I was— I realized like, I've got it. It's so good. You know, I'm married to the love of my life. I've got an amazing kid. Like, I have— I already won. I won. And, you know, if we have to live in our car, we'll live in our car. We're fine. We're, you know, it's exactly— so I think gratitude is everything. Gratitude is everything.

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