#210: Dealing With Stress In Our Everyday Lives With Wayne Kelly

Life happens, and not always the way we expect it to. Every single day we face change, stress, and uncertainty. What if you could learn to thrive no matter what life throws your way? Resilience expert Adam Markel and his inspiring guests explore breakthrough strategies to fully embrace change and build the resilience required to become change-proof.

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Welcome to the Conscious Pivot Podcast. I'm your host, Adam Markel. And I would say I'm just in a delightful mood right now. I was in a crappy mood earlier. Just one of those things sometimes, you know, the day— I don't know, it's hard for me, and I don't know if you guys sort of feel the same way, but you don't always know why your mood changes. I didn't wake up in a bad mood. I typically wake up and I have this morning ritual that many of you know about. And so that's a really fundamental way that I ground myself. I get to a place, an attitude that I want to start the day with, which is gratitude. I get to a place where I feel good about my life no matter what, including any of the uncertainty that is part of most of our daily lives these days. And for so many people in business and so many areas of our lives, there's just a great deal of uncertainty. And so I've learned and developed these tools to turn those things around, to be able to turn the ship, so to speak. But then somewhere a couple hours later, despite all that good morning ritual, I just ended up feeling physically not at my best. And then, you know, my thoughts started to follow my physiology. And before you know it, I was just in a crap mood, you know. I mean, I don't know how else to put it. And then was getting prepared for this podcast today, and immediately The programming inside of me is that to be in service, I can always step outside of my own personal crap. Whatever misery I might be in, if I'm in service, that always takes a second seat. It goes to the sidelines. So that I know always works. And then what was really wonderful today too was that I've got a guest on the show that I was fortunate enough to be invited to be on his show, on his radio show. And I so enjoyed that conversation. And I didn't really recall it. So well, actually. Randi, my wife, she reminded me just how happy and kind of uplifted I was after that conversation. And that's why we wanted this gentleman to come and join us and be a part of this show. His name is Wayne Kelly. I'm going to say a little bit more about him in a second. But as soon as I turned on the camera and the audio and Wayne joined me, we just started conversing about some things and I just immediately, it's like my mood shifted. I could feel that just whatever that heaviness, kind of almost like a, you know, low clouds, just, just lifted away. And it's so funny because right before I turned the camera on too, I was telling Wayne that there were crows. You know, we're up in Maine, we're in this beautiful place right on the coast, and these crows were just out in force about 10 minutes ago, just yakking away, yakking away. And I don't know, maybe that was just sort of like the, you know, the head chatter for me. Yeah, that was like a bit of a symbol of some chatter in my head today. And then boom, get in service, spend some time with somebody that's a lot of fun and feel simpatico with, and then all of a sudden the head chatter goes. So we'll see if the crows return, but I don't think so. All right, so without further ado, Wayne Kelly has been waking up, and this is, I think, a wonderful segue into this. So the idea of how do you wake yourself up even in the middle of the afternoon? Like, I just got to wake myself up 10 minutes ago, which was, Great. He's been waking up listeners in British Columbia, Canada for more than 22 years. He started a media publicity company in 2005 and he helps authors, entrepreneurs, coaches get publicity using the power of media interviews. And so Wayne, I again so appreciate the, the fact that you've joined for the Conscious Pivot today and just recalling how much fun we had last time. Welcome to the show. Thank you.

Thank you very much. And I feel the same way. It's like, you know, you get nervous before being interviewed, even though I teach it, I live it, I'm on the radio, I talk all the time. And then just instantly, as soon as the camera went on, we were both like, hey, look at that guitar, you know? Yeah. And we just start this great conversation. All of a sudden, I just feel, you know, there's a happiness that kind of comes over you when you have this. I don't know, it's just, it's cool. It's really neat to have a vibe with other people. And I always say, you know what, my little radio show, We're all about just kind of living in a happy little bubble. There's so much garbage going on out there in the world and all these awful videos and terrible things that if we could just bring a little bit of joy to somebody's life, isn't that a great simple place to start?

I can't think of a more— a simpler place to begin. Just think how it is you cultivate some joy in someone else's life especially. Wayne, what's not a part of the bio that I was reading that you'd love for people to know about you at the outset?

Well, that's part of who I am, but I'm stress-free. I'm a human being that is stress-free, which is kind of odd. You don't run into many people that— like, I say it, but I live it. So if I actually do feel stressed, let's say once every month or something, I actually feel stressed, it's very hard for me to deal with. Like, I'm just not used to it. I've kind of lived a stressful life and then moved into now just being really content and happy with exactly where I'm at and everything else to me is bonus.

Well, I gotta tell you, I know exactly where we're gonna start, buddy, because I just had to put my glasses on when you said that. Stress-free. Okay. So, you know, and it's funny because I picked up this old book today and it's such an old book, I don't even, I don't remember the title, but the author is Albert Ellis, who was a rational emotive therapy, rational emotive therapy, RET, was his thing from, I think, like 1955. And he was writing books. I'm not sure if he's written anything recently or if he's even still around actually. But this book was from about 1988. And he's written dozens and dozens of books about the way that we handle stress and the way that we sort of, we catastrophize and awfulize and— and do that kind of thing inside of ourselves. We make ourselves miserable. I know that's in the title. I can't recall the name of the book right now, but it's, it's how is it that we can be misery-free always? And his part of the theory, I've just started the book, but is that we make ourselves miserable. So stopping that process is actually within our power to do. So tell me about, you've lived a stressful life. Maybe we should start there. What did stressful life look like for you?

Well, okay, so for me, stressful life was simply, you know, and it's everybody has the same story. You get married, you have a couple of children, you have the job, and then you are trying to live the what you're supposed to be. And you try to fit yourself into this mold of what does a father do? What is my thought of what a father is? What is my Thought of being a husband. Then trying to have a successful radio show where you're always thinking about your show. You're like, every time you go for a walk, every time you go outside, you see people, you're thinking about your show. So now all of a sudden you've got radio going around in your brain all the time. You're trying to take care of family, then you get bills and you get stressed out and we're building a house and there's just all these things that started happening. And for me, I didn't know how to really deal with that because I just went from, you know, just being single guy and all of a sudden getting married and then child 1, then child 2, and then mortgages and all this stuff. And it was very stressful for me to deal with and I didn't really know how to do it. And I realized after a while that it was because I had almost a fake notion of what it's supposed to look like. And I'm the man and this is— and I'm gonna provide and this is what I'm supposed to do instead of You know, being more of a— I would say partner, but just more of who am I as a person and how can I— what can I do to contribute to society and make sure that my family is happy at all times?

Resilience. It's the unsung hero in every success story that you will ever hear about. And in times of massive change and disruption, the kind of rapid change that we're all experiencing as leaders, as business owners, as entrepreneurs, We have to learn how to not only increase our own resilience, but that of our teams. So right now we have a powerful opportunity for you to find out just how resilient you are. Some years ago, my team and I created the resilience assessment that more than 5,000 business leaders across the globe have taken. And all you have to do to get your own free resilience leader assessment is go to resiliencerank.com. It takes less than 3 It takes 3 minutes and it's our gift to you for being the leader that you already are. Other free resources and tools will accompany your score instantly. So go to resiliencerank.com and find out just how resilient you are. So this, the taking care of the family thing, I think it goes, it goes both ways certainly now. I know men are,

yeah,

on some DNA level I think There's 2 things men believe they're supposed to be. They're supposed to provide and protect. And they are— those are stresses for sure. Got married early. We had kids pretty young. I was starting a career, starting a law practice actually at the beginning when we began having a family. So, you're building, like you said, you're building a business and your kids are young and your marriage is young. So, you're kind of green all over, right? Yeah. You're green in your profession. You're green as a parent. You're green as a spouse. That's a dangerous combination of things to be inexperienced at, right?

Absolutely. And it's difficult because you don't know how to fit. Then you feel like you're failing at everything. So I'm not good enough at what I'm doing work-wise. I'm not good enough as a husband. I'm sucking as a father. I'm chronically tired because I'm working mornings or then I'm up at night. And it was just a really weird combination. So what do you start doing? You stop eating properly. You don't exercise anymore. And then what happens? You get more and more and more More stress, and then all of a sudden, I get the layoff notice. Hey, we're not going to need you in 1 month.

Yeah.

All right, that's awesome. All right, now what are we going to do, right? But it actually turned out to be a wonderful thing for me because when I was in that life, I was trying to be— I never went to school for radio. I actually went to school playing guitar and learned music. That's what I studied in school. When I got into radio, I was just trying to be what the successful people were. I wasn't Wayne, I was trying to be a Peter so-and-so or what have you, and I was terrible at it. I was awful at it. When I got the layoff notice, I remember I had ended up leaving much quicker because I went and found a different radio job where I totally changed and said, okay, you know what, I'm going to become more like me. I'm going to do something completely different and I'm going to become Wayne and let Wayne's personality come out. Wayne's personality is laid back, is fun, always interested in people. Any interview I get to do, I just absolutely love finding out what makes people tick or why they do what they do. It's just this natural curiosity. And I never thought, okay, a guest is too big of a guest to be on my show when I was starting out. And all those things, it was almost like just by not worrying anymore about all these different things, it freed me. And from there, we started growing and then started the PR business. And what happens? You start working again and you're stressed and you're living all that. But then luckily, I started exercising a lot more and realized, okay, blood pressure medication And being overweight and all these different things. It's not working. It doesn't help anything. It doesn't make every— you know, I feel like you're faking it. You know when you said, you know, you can turn on when you're gonna have the client with you and you're gonna be able to do a session with somebody, you turn it on. Well, we could do that. We do that in radio all the time, right? You know, nobody wants me to wake them up by saying, hey, good morning. Boy, what a miserable evening that was. We had this child waking us up and this one was sick and My life sucks.

I'm so just— I'm so depressed this morning. How many of you out there are as depressed as I am? And welcome to my show.

Total dark cloud of misery.

Maybe that's a way to go. I don't know. Maybe that would maybe meet a certain segment of the audience right now.

I think you definitely can nowadays because it's a small percentage if you have those bad things happen. And what's actually great about the bad things is that everybody goes through it. And I think when you're going through things, you often feel like, I must be the only one because I'm looking at this person is super successful. Look at what Adam's doing. Adam's living on the coast and look at so-and-so and you compare yourself to everybody else. But then all of a sudden you find out the truth and it isn't Facebook. You know those vacation photos where they look so happy and then you talk to your friend who put those pictures up and you find out Yeah, they're on the verge of divorce because they were going crazy fighting during this vacation. And you realize, huh, maybe we should just be real and talk more. And I love talking to guys about the hardships of being in a role, if you will, or what's— hey, as a dad, it was really hard at this point. And I like to talk about things like that. And then you hear other people say, yeah, it was tough as a You know, when our kids were 3 years of age or what have you.

Yeah, I mean, the realness, I think, is a real tool. It's a gift because there's such a lack of that in some areas of our awareness these days because social media, for the most part, I think, is everybody's best hair day. And that's especially when, when you get caught up in comparison, which I think On some level is natural. I don't know. I think we look at other people for modeling of the things we want to do or be. And so we're constantly looking at others for some sense of, are we, you know, in our place? And that's a bit of a confusing thing to be looking at outside, anything outside of yourself for confirmation or reaffirmation or— whatever edification of what you're doing as being sort of right and true and all that kind of thing. And that can be a terribly confusing process to be taking your cues from outside of what you might look at as your own guidance system internally. So you go through this period where you lose a job. I mean, there are a lot of people who've lost a job or lost a business or something has really sidelined their work at the moment. We know that something is the virus, but there's a whole host of emotions that just come up at a time like that. And so you skipped through that pretty quickly. So I mean, was there something you learned about yourself in that process? Because I, again, there are people listening to this right now who are going through it or they're thinking about it's going to happen. And, you know—

You know what I learned? You know how they say, you know, if you're feeling extremely stressed out or, you know, you just need to start breathing and clear your mind, doesn't work. You can't breathe your way to losing stress. And I know people will say you can, but I'm sorry, for me, that didn't— doesn't work. So for me, it was more about communicating. I needed to talk with people. I needed to find out, is there something wrong with me? What about— what's happened? And you really start looking at yourself and going, oh my gosh, What am I doing wrong? And when you realize, okay, it wasn't me personally, I wasn't really the reason why the layoffs happened. There was budget cuts and I was the low man on the pole. So that's what happens. But by making the change, and I actually felt a little bit more in control instead of waiting until the actual layoff date, by finding and really making an opportunity by contacting a station saying, here's what I propose for a morning show. I can join your team that's already there, and here's what I can do. I felt like I got a little bit of power back in the way I was dealing with it. And I didn't really know where it was going to go or what it was going to lead to, but it turned out well. So for me, stress, I almost have to take myself out of myself in a way. I dive into, I've got to put on some music, I've got to start playing guitar, I need to go for a run. I need to go for a bike ride. I need to do something that I'm not thinking about the situation because I can take this thing and I can go to the darkest little places with my brain. Why? Why? Why? Why? So for me, that's what I need to do is I escape by then going to playing guitar, playing music, and exercising.

Yeah, there's a lot of, I think, options for, for all of us in, in moments like that. One of the things that I, I have asked myself over the years is regarding how I'm feeling, you know, your disappointment, for example. And I'll ask, am I disappointed in the situation or am I disappointed in myself?

Mm-hmm.

Because a lot of what brings on that sort of spiraling of emotion, you know, the emotions themselves like disappointment or sadness are fine. It's when they become at a heightened level, almost a radical or extreme level, that they lead to dread or anxiety or depression or other things that, that are just more extreme forms of disappointment, sadness, fear, things of that sort. So asking myself that question, am I disappointed in the situation or am I disappointed in myself? And I think that little fork in the road is quite helpful because, you know, even looking at the situation we're in now with so many folks having to reimagine and reinvent aspects of their careers or their businesses, the disappointment can certainly turn into a lot of sort of anguish internally.

Mm-hmm.

Whereas if you're looking at what in the situation is the cause of the disappointment, whether it's that it happened, that it caught you off guard, that, you know, you weren't prepared for it, that there was not maybe the kind of response that could have ameliorated some of it, or whatever the case is. You're disappointed in, in these things that you can look at objectively and dispassionately even. Whereas when you go, you know, I'm such an idiot, I could have sold my business last year, I had a chance to sell my business, I can't believe I bought that new house, why did I buy that new house last year, I should be downsizing, I should have been managing my money better so that in the event of something like this, I wouldn't be so vulnerable right now, so feeling so at risk, et cetera. It's just like, there's a very distinct difference between that self-talk because they're both self-talk, but clearly one is looking at it in a way that is not about awfulizing what you've done. And we do that so easily. I mean, like you said at the very beginning, there are things that we even think as men or women that we should be doing.

And

it's that should, that framing of something as a should. I should be providing better or I should have known better or, you know.

That's exactly it. It's the shoulds are horrible and it affects just a lot of different people. So I really admire those that do walk away from the shoulds and I think it's something that we do learn as we age and I just celebrated a big birthday and so I'm pretty excited to have kind of, my grandma who's 93 said, you're on top of Oh! As I hit 50, she goes, you're on the top, enjoy it. And I said, okay. And maybe that's part of the game is that, you know, you have to go through— you're not gonna go through life stress-free. You're not gonna go through— Well, what are you talking about?

We're gonna get to that next. You said you're stress-free.

Now, now I'm stress-free.

All right, so with that, I know people are going, oh, Corey, you got to get to it now. You've managed to get to a place where you feel stress-free because that's a very different way of being, right?

Right. Well, I mean, I still need a paycheck. It's not like I'm independently wealthy.

That didn't change.

No, no, no, no. That helped. But my kids grew up and they've gone through their education and one's just finishing his engineering degree this year. So, that is great and that is a huge relief stress-wise for when you can get your kids through school and get them into their lives and you've done well and they're good young adults. That is a very simple thing. My wife still likes me. She laughs at my jokes sometimes. Some things I think are really funny, she doesn't, but that is kind of a celebration as well right there. So, for me, those things became very, very important. And then also, I can't schedule myself chock-full of stuff. I'll do like 4 days of work and I like my The Fridays, I've just said, I'm sorry, I can't work on Friday. It doesn't matter what the client is or who wants to work. Sorry, Friday is going to be my time and I'm going biking. I just don't schedule myself so tight that I can't go take a break and go for an adventure of whatever that is. That has been huge for me, is to not have the book full for weeks and weeks in advance. And I remember Randy sent a note, I think, to book this show.

Yep.

February, maybe? I think it was February. And I was like, February? In August, I have no clue what it is I'm going to be doing at that point in time, but great. And then she reminded me yesterday, and I'm like, see, good thing I wasn't super booked. I'm like, hey, let's do it. It worked out perfect. So for me, those are the big things that I just haven't I schedule my life so busy all the time that I have lots of great time to go and bike. But I will say my efficiency when it comes to work is very good. I'm able to just— I think I've really got that nailed down to be super efficient. Don't waste time. Dive in. I love working in the mornings. I enjoy when I'm out for a bike ride, I am still thinking about what the blog is going to be or what newsletters are going to send out or what— or for clients coming up with ideas. So those times are still used for that, but it's just being a lot more efficient with how I work.

And are you a solo or are you working with a team outsourced or otherwise?

For the most part, it's solo. And then if I need certain people, then I will hire in. But for the most part, it is all solo and it works out very well. It's fun that way. Same thing. Working with people is energizing, right? You get the odd one that's a complete draw, but what now? After all these years of doing it, you kind of learn which ones are going to be a pain in the butt and you send them to the next person.

Yeah, client management is, is an important thing. I mean, we do a lot of, a lot of work with people that want to do what we're doing. I mean, that's— it's a wonderful thing when people come to you to say, hey, I want to do these things. I want to speak. I want to get paid. I want to deliver a TED Talk. I want to have the kind of clients that I can get really go deep, be able to draw really the greatest creative gifts out of in the process. All those things are part of the reason that we do what we do. And it's not without stress. It is not without its moments where you're I'll say I am at my creative, you know, sort of at the limit of my capacity. I mean, because we have those. But I learned a while ago that there's some things I shouldn't be doing. And I think— and I'm not, I'm not exactly a solo, but we're a small business, so we have some internal and some external resources. But for example, I don't schedule anything. So the fact that you said, yeah, we got scheduled for this back in February and here we are in August, right? I'm not surprised.

I mean,

because

You're booked a lot, young man.

But the way that it's spaced out means that there's not that exhaustion that comes from sort of the overdoing and the overworking and the over-over-overing, right?

Yeah.

And but I wouldn't be good at making that happen. If I were left to my own devices, I would be burned out because I'm not great at managing a schedule. I'm pretty good with managing priorities, but time management, I'm sort of— my wife You know, is always kidding me about this, or maybe not even kidding, just driving her nuts at times, that I sort of think I can bend time. And I like to push and squeeze in as much, you know, like suck the marrow out of every day. But, but that creates a lot of stress when you've got too many things kind of stacked up and think you can— you can— it's not even about being able to do it. It's about the drain on the system when you run yourself at capacity. Without a commensurate amount of recovery. We, as part of our speaking business, the me going out and delivering workshops for companies, we talk about resilience and the research and the statistics and all that are clear that people don't perform well for very long when they're run down. It's just that simple. Not a whole lot more complicated than

that. No.

But yet the way in which you arrest that process, where you, you know, you stop it from going down that path, especially when corporations are built to sort of drive people as hard as they can for as long as they can. I mean, that's, you know, what they call productivity. Except in the end, it just creates burnout and exhaustion and leads to a whole lot of crappy work too. That's a topic for a different day. But for us individually, we've got to be the sort of the guardian at the gate for ourselves, or we have to have people around us that do that. That's why I say I don't handle my schedule.

And I love that. I love that what you're saying. Like, so you are scheduling it that now, you're not— So that's what I was like. Let's see, it was about 2015 or so when the change really happened. But before that, it was go, go, go, go, go. You know, get up, boom, go to the show, do the show, come home, boom, work with clients, then finish with clients, and then try to write stuff to promote yourself, create a blog, and do all the things you're supposed to People are listening to you

right now going, that's my life.

Right. That is your life.

You're describing my life right now.

And we've gone through it. And then you rush in and you have dinner. And then all of a sudden, it's off to bed. So we've gone through that. We've done that. Some people live with that. But I think, as you said, you need to schedule. If you're scheduled, some people are amazing at just scheduling their lives. I'm kind of a little more free-flowing. For clients, I always book the times, of course. But yeah, I think I interrupted you on your thought, but I just like what you're saying about you still do take the time that you can, you can have time with that guitar in the background.

Wow, the pace of change over the last couple of years has been rapid. And if you're a leader, a business owner, an entrepreneur, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Every day it's something different and something new. But the one thing that I've learned in performing at the height of of all of those roles has been that we must be resilient. In fact, it's the unsung hero in every success story that you will ever hear about. And it's the reason why my team and I created the resilience assessment that more than 5,000 business leaders across the globe have taken. And all you have to do to get your own free resilient leader assessment is go to resiliencerank.com. It takes less It takes less than 3 minutes, and it's our gift to you for being the leader that you already are. Other free resources and tools will accompany your score instantly. So, go to resiliencerank.com and find out just how resilient you are. I mean, to me, I was never a scheduler. In fact, I wouldn't even wear a watch. I was a lawyer. I don't know if you even know that from my background.

Yes, I do.

So, 18 years, I wasn't practicing for a minute, you know, and I resisted a lot of the I hate this sort of the rules. I mean, it's an ironic thing about being a lawyer that I was kind of not a rule follower.

Really?

Yeah. I sort of don't even— I kind of push back against authority. I'm fiercely independent and freedom is a really important thing to me. And so just to wear a watch didn't feel like I was free. I mean, that's why we go away to places and live where we live just because we want to really be free of some of the restrictions. But the freedom that I gained from having my schedule be taken care of, to know that I have things booked, I don't have to think about when I have free time because when I'm not booked, my time is free. I know if I'm not on a podcast or with a client or in a speaking engagement, I am free. Yeah. I can swim. I can surf. I can read. I can play guitar, whatever. That's my time. So, that's given me a very different perspective on creating that stress-free— I mean, this is a little sub-theme. This might even be the theme, frankly, of our talk right now because is it possible to live without the kind of stress? Look, stress is, I think, is good and that's what builds— it builds our muscles to lift things. That's stress that builds us in that context. So I don't think we can live without stress because we can't live without growth and growth is the result of how we resolve and handle stress.

Yeah.

But just like we said earlier, when it comes to emotions, the overstress, like the going past the point of what is healthy stress into that arena where we're really— we're depleting ourselves, it's like the law of diminishing marginal returns. Like your grandmother said this to you, right? So, you know, you're at the top, the other side is the downhill slope, right? You know, the downhill slope The bill of stress is pretty rough. It's hypertension, it's anxiety, depression, medications, it's diabetes. I mean, it's a whole host of things that lead to a shorter life, right?

And I found that I was in that place where I then couldn't sleep. I'd wake up 2 o'clock in the morning stressed out, anxiety, you know, almost hyperventilating, if I will. Not to the point, but it was not good. It was not a good situation at all. And so eventually, I finally said, okay, something's— this is not right. This is not me, because I am driven. I'm motivated. I love to be just moving forward. I'm very goal-oriented, and I still am, but something's completely haywire. And so I actually went and talked to my doctor. And I went to my doctor, and we talked about a hangnail, and we talked about whatever. And then I'm like, oh, and by the way, I'm not sure what's going on with my life, but this is kind of what's happening.

By the way. Yeah.

And my doctor, I'd never seen the man more excited than he was. And he goes, I think you're depressed. What? Me? How can I be?

With a big smile on his face.

Come on now. I'm always smiling.

Hey, wait. I think you're

depressed. And I remember I was literally skipping home. I was so excited to have a label and say—

To have a label.

I think I'm depressed. Well, that's cool. At least I know what it is. And then we were able to work on it from that point.

Yeah.

And it was like, it was awesome. I mean, it sounds ridiculous, but to know this is what's actually probably going on.

Yeah.

And I was like, woo. And that's where the change happened. And all of a sudden, okay, I better get a bicycle because all of a sudden at that point I was close to 210 pounds and being 5'7, That's not a good weight for my body. And so I started cycling and that was a big thing. And it was, that really made the change. That's where things started to really turn around for me. So yeah.

You know, you and I had a, not the exact same scenario, but I ended up with this book, The Road Less Traveled. It's an old Dr. Scott Peck book, right? It's a killer book. If people haven't read that book, I just can't say enough about that kind of, those, that kind reading is really helpful because, well, I mean, it was a bit scary too. It was kind of like psych— performing psychoanalysis on myself when I read that book. It was in— kind of took me into some really dark places, and I wasn't necessarily prepared to even go there. But it was also so empowering to just have this awareness, like you said, to be able to call it, you know, to have a label to place on something you're feeling. I had a day when I ended up at the emergency room in a local hospital convinced I was dying. I mean, I was having a heart attack. I had to pull off the side of the road. It was that extreme. My chest pounding, sweating, you know, that kind of thing, scaring the life out of my wife too. It was just— I'm feeling guilty that I'm now in this state I can't control, and I'm— but I'm terrified. So I'm just like, we got to go to the emergency room. And next thing you know, I'm— You know, lying on the gurney. And at a certain point when the doctor lets me know after all the tests have been done, they put this— you know, I got a pretty hairy chest— they stick those electrodes to my chest. It's like, oh man, those would be a bitch when they come off unless I'm not around.

I don't mind that pain.

Then I won't care, right? It's like— but he said to me, you're having an anxiety attack. That's what happened to you today. He said, that's in all likelihood because you didn't have a heart attack. Your heart's fine. He says, you're a lucky man. I didn't feel quite so lucky in the moment, but, but it really was such a relief that afternoon. Hours later, we walk out and I felt tremendous relief. And I remember even saying, thank you, God. And that was just not my language at the time in my life. And, um, Because it was a reprieve of sorts. Like you said, to just find out, look, I'm— this is handleable. You know, this is something I can— we can do something about this.

I

don't have to be, you know, my ticker is good. I don't need a surgery. I don't need a heart transplant.

Yeah.

You know, but there's something off. So it was sort of relieving at the time, you know, like So, solution here, great. You know, problem is a solution, right? I think, was it John Lennon that said that? So, it was some great quote in one of his songs, but there are no problems, only solutions, right? So, there was the problem solution right there, and yet I didn't have a clue about what needed to change. So, you did. You got on a bike and you started to do that.

Yeah.

What are some of the other things? Because I wanted us to talk about what creates resilience, and I think we've sort of led ourselves into that. Anyway, you know,

right? Yeah, for me it was the sports and just letting go of thinking I was supposed to be something at, you know, at this age I would have this many dollars in my bank account and we would be driving this, this, this, and my Sunday or my, my beater would be a Ferrari, right?

Oh, wow.

Let go of all those things. Don't— I had to just say, okay, who am I? Let's get a really great bicycle. Let's ride the bicycle. And

you got a good bike though, right?

Got a great bike.

All right, cool.

We got cars, but that's the bike that— a car is not going to change you from being that much, you know, 40 pounds overweight to where I was supposed to be according to the doctor. So all of a sudden I start— and this actually really even helped my business— I started tracking Food I ate, wrote down everything that I ate, put it into the MyFitnessPal app. And also, I track every— I started biking and I started running. And I remember I ran like 3 times and I thought my knees were going to fall off. I went to one of the running places and said, I think I'm too big to run. And they're like, no, no, no, no, not at all. Seriously, you just have the wrong shoes. Oh, okay. So they set me up with the right tools. And all of a sudden, I was able to start learning how to run. And it wasn't just right away. I'd never really run before. And so eventually, I started tracking, started tracking every piece of exercise. In fact, I have a book and still write down every time I exercise. I will not exercise without Tracking where I've gone and stuff, and I keep it there. So that for me was the biggest things. Started exercising, tracking it, tracking what I was eating. That really helped out tremendous amount. That really changed my life. So then all of a sudden I started realizing, as I tracked it all, my weight started going down. I started feeling better, right? Then all of a sudden I— you get more energy and all of a sudden you start thinking about things that you want to do again. And so I worked on me, then I was able to say, well, if I ever had a really bad month, I went through some times where I didn't even focus on the business anymore because it was more important for me to be doing my health stuff. I just let that stuff go because I was so just wrapped up in it that I lost all my joy for doing it. I really had no— I just didn't want to do it. I didn't find it inspiring at all. I just lost the drive. But by stepping away from that, tracking everything, then all of a sudden I started going, okay, I'm going to start tracking when I make contact, or I'm going to start tracking what I'm going to do in my business. Okay, 2 things a day that I'm going to do. So all of a sudden out came the book and I start tracking things. And all of a sudden that started to work for me as well. So then if I've ever looked back and go, okay, well, this month wasn't that great, I look back at my book and go, Well, look at that. You didn't do squat. You know, you didn't reach out. You didn't make contact. You didn't do any interviews. You didn't— haven't done anything at all. Well, that's a reason. So for me, I'm really— I kind of almost need to know a reason on why something happens.

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

It makes perfect sense because it's a logic to it. There's a sort of an if-then, you know, the premises lead to a conclusion. You could have been a lawyer, buddy. Can I just be a

judge?

Yeah, no kidding, right? Oh my God, just skip that part of being abused in the— in court and just go right to the point where you're the abuser.

Seems like way more fun.

It's a ton more fun, I gotta believe.

Yeah, I think that really has been the secret to now being I'm able to do the things that I do and don't feel tremendous stress. I just find a lot more joy. You got to be happy to be getting up at 4:15 every morning.

That's true.

You said you wake up and usually you're in a good mood. Same thing with me. I wake up, I'm ready to go. I'm like, woo-hoo, this is going to be great. Every once in a while, you have a tired week, but for the most part, I think this sure beats working for a living. Getting to talk on the radio and meet cool people and hear these wonderful stories. And I just, I love, I love what I get to do.

Yeah. Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this sort of shameless pitch, even though it's not really a pitch, but just because, because I know internally, I know we, we help people with this stuff. It feels like a pitch to me, but everybody can be a broadcaster these days. So not, not And I'm not, you know, for nothing here, what you just described is this joy.

Yeah.

Doesn't even need to be your full-time gig. I mean, it just doesn't. You know, Michelle Obama started her podcast a couple of weeks back. We've been listening. I think there's like 2 episodes already. And I'm listening to her in the first episode. Randy put it on. We're in the car driving. And I'm listening going, it's the same as ours. I mean, let's get straight, right? It's Michelle Obama. Yeah. And the former President of the United States. you guys who are listening to this, you know, where you stand politically. This guy was the leader of the free world for 8 years.

We know who he is. Okay.

Yeah. He was a Harvard Law Review, you know, guy. And these are not people without credentials, have a lot, a lot of very impressive things. And still listening to that podcast sounded just like Randi and I as husband and wife. I mean, he's speaking, he's trying to get a word out and she's interrupting him. Like the guy can't get a full sentence out. Before his wife is stopping like in the middle and I'm going, this is exactly the same thing in our house. What's the difference, right? Their microphone sounds just like our microphone. It's like they're not even on video. It's just audio. I'm like, and anybody can do this. So if you're out there listening to this, having a good chuckle about it, the fact of the matter is there's a tremendous amount of joy that comes from this the conversations that you can have with really interesting people in a format known as a podcast. Everybody has been given sort of the authority on the airwaves to be a broadcaster at this point. And we do not, you know, as a disclaimer, we don't have a podcast company. We, we get contacted by a lot of podcast companies and we work with some as well because it's a great way to reach people. It really is.

Yeah, absolutely. These days, and that's what even seeing in my publicity company, it's expanded so much because before it was just focusing on AM/FM radio and television. But nowadays, if you're not speaking about your business, what you do somewhere every week, you're missing out because everybody, everybody's looking for great content. Now, this is where the magic happens is when you're able to have a great real conversation That makes you a great guest. See, this, what you and I've been talking about, I've actually never talked about with people. This isn't something I would ever talk about on my show or what have you. And we didn't really know where this was going to go when we started this interview. But it's been very interesting as we've done the dance and talked about all these really cool things and issues. And I hope it helps out other people. That's a big thing that I really want Out of this is that if somebody else says, yeah, I'm going through this, or I'm maybe not feeling as well as I should be, or maybe there's something wrong, get yourself checked out because you don't know where it is. But nowadays, you've got all these great podcasts, you've got TV, you've got radio, and you can still get into them. I mean, these places, look at all the money that these big radio stars are getting paid. Why do they get paid that much money? Because people are listening. And so when you get into that realm where it's like, especially with what we've seen going on in the last little while in the world, what a great time to get on and talk about stress, relationships, being cooped up. Like, my kids both moved home during this whole thing, and it was great because if I was just quarantined here with my wife, I mean, she'd be just overjoyed with happiness being able to listen to me all the time.

Yes, of course, Wayne. I mean, of course you would. I really hope you're enjoying this episode of the Change Proof Podcast. If you've not yet gone out and gotten your own copy of Change Proof, it's not too late. You can get your copy right now by going to changeproof.com and not only getting the book and all the bonuses there, but getting access to our proprietary resilience assessment tool. It'll just take you 3 minutes to do, and it's something that will really help you to utilize the book even more effectively to create practices and rituals and habits that will increase your mental, emotional, physical, and even spiritual resilience for the long term. Again, go to changeproof.com to get your copy today. Heck, we were empty nesters last fall, man, and we were just getting used to it. I mean, we had just gotten over— I would say when COVID-19 hit, we were just getting over our guilt. You know, we just, just kind of cleared the last guilt hurdle.

Why are we so happy?

Why are we so freaking happy? And then boom, they're back. It's like, are you kidding me? Yeah, no. All right. Well, that's a wonderful place to land the boat, you know, bring it right to shore right there.

Yeah. That is perfect. Spending time with family, right? It's great.

So, my last question for you, Wayne, is there one thing— because you get up early, you get up at 4:30 in the morning. Is there something that you do when it's dark out and you're just starting your day that is kind of a ritual? I mean, you've spoken about a lot of different rituals. In fact, I love the fact I love the fact that you told— you shared that idea about tracking things. So I think people can really look at that and say, where is it possible for me to do some tracking? And my own theory is that if you're not willing to do that, you know, you're opposed to tracking, it's probably because what you're gonna track is gonna cause you some pain. Or really what you're not tracking, the things you're not doing that you ought to be.

Yeah.

You know, that would be beneficial to you.

Head in the sand is not really the best thing, right?

Yeah. And head in the sand isn't. And it's interesting you brought that up, right? Because the lack of awareness is a bigger issue. The blind spot that comes from unwillingness to look at things, even difficult things, I think is really challenging. In the money arena, I'm sure there are people that still don't open up their bank statements or open up their brokerage account statements because—

Oh my gosh.

Yeah. It's ugly or whatever, but you go, am I actually not tracking those things? What are you missing that otherwise with the awareness— like, I didn't want to have a doctor tell me I was having an anxiety attack. It's a little embarrassing, actually. I felt embarrassed that that's where— you know, I'm a lawyer, for crying out loud. I'm a litigator. I mean, I'm a dad. I'm a husband. What am I doing having an anxiety attack? You know?

Yeah.

I could look at it that way for sure, but I didn't and I don't. And especially now I look back and I go, wow. awareness that I got out of that probably saved me a heart attack, a real one, you know? Just like you going into that doctor and doing that, oh, by the way, and the doctor lighting up and going, oh my gosh, yeah, you probably are depressed. It's like—

Yeah.

Well, what did that turn into? It turned into you creating, through that awareness, changing some things that you, you knew you needed to. It was clear you had to do something differently. And now, you know, you're fit, you're in shape, you're living a completely different life from a stress standpoint. You go, that's kind of a transformation.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And I feel happy.

You feel happy. So when you wake up in the morning, what's the first thought or thing you do?

Well, for me, it's not— it's just about being prepared. So I don't even have a ritual per se in the morning because I'm kind of, you know, focused on getting into work. But it's— I get into work earlier than I'm supposed to be, and I always believe in being as prepared as possible. And I'm prepared, but whatever happens, I'm ready for. So you can prep for something and things go sideways and it's perfectly okay. And even for this interview, any interview, I take my time. I make sure I'm prepped. I'm in the right headspace. I'm ready at least an hour ahead of time, which sounds crazy, but it's an hour ahead of time where I set up things, think about what is it that we're going to be talking about. So just being prepped in everything I do is critically important just to helping me stay kind of calm.

Yeah. I mean, the ritual of preparedness.

Is that a ritual?

I'm calling it a ritual. I'm calling it a ritual.

Okay.

You know, especially since it's conscious. You know, habits are things we do without thinking about it. It doesn't sound to me like you prepare unconsciously. It's the opposite for you. You're consciously aware that preparation is vitally important to you for a bunch of reasons. It makes you feel secure, I'm sure. You have less fear when you feel prepared. But you're also being responsible. You're also preparing for an opportunity. As you said, things go sideways all the time. Who knows what that all looks like? Yeah. But when we think or share information about resilience, one of the things we always say is that you got to develop resilience before you need it, which is counter to the way most people live. They are resilient because some shitstorm came their way, and now they've— they are resilient in the face of that storm. Whereas being prepared, as you said, before the storm allows you to be resilient and then some.

Mm-hmm.

And yeah.

Yeah, you're ready for it. It doesn't matter what goes sideways to a certain extent. Obviously, there's going to be some tragic things that are going to happen, but for the most part, the things that we think of as difficult are very easy to deal with when you're ready for— you're prepped, you're ready, let's go. And all of a sudden, something happens and you're just in the right mindset. I think it's all in the mind. You've got to be ready for the game.

For sure.

Yeah, that's all.

We've been watching that. Yes. Did you see the ESPN special about Michael Jordan?

Oh, loved it.

How brilliant is that, right?

Unbelievable. Now talk about having, you know, being in the game. He was in the game at all times.

All times. Yeah, it was like almost never a moment the guy wasn't, you know, in the game. That level of competitive fire, I mean, rarely see it. So to have it be captured the way they captured

Yeah.

It's a look into what true mastery is. I mean,

yeah,

yeah, really brilliant. Hey Wayne, thank you so much for being on the show, buddy. It was a pleasure to have you.

This is awesome. Thank you very much. Well, I will jam one day with our Yamaha guitars.

Yeah, see right back, right back there over that shoulder, there's, there's an old Yamaha, which of course Canadian is saying Yamaha. Hey, where's your guitar? Pull it out so everybody could just see it. I know it's just a the wall over there if you can grab it. That's so cool.

My Yamaha. Oh

man, that is just killer.

Yeah, too funny. 1985, there we go.

Oh, it's 1985. That's the year my wife Randy and I, we met.

Oh really?

Yeah, yeah. Hey, listen, I know it doesn't sync up well, so I'm not gonna go grab my guitar and play because Zoom is off by a little bit, just a little bit, because we've tried this.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Oh, that's hilarious.

When our daughter, oldest daughter Chelsea was getting married last year, I have this sort of a thing where I like to sing at their occasions occasionally.

Oh, nice.

So I was learning this song on the guitar and I was doing it with a dear friend, a business partner, and she was singing and we were trying to just bring our, you know, bring it together. And I'm like, why are you going so slow? We're trying to sync up, but Zoom's off a little bit. So we just keep thinking we were each off or whatever. Hey man, will you, uh, you strum a little bit for us for a couple seconds?

How's that? Oh

man, that's a good setting. So the story with this guitar is it's 1985, they only made 6 of them, right?

Yeah, who knew?

Yeah. And, and some— what's the story with Steve?

Just the coolest story. So I bought this guitar from a friend of mine named Steve, and, uh, Steve bought it from a guy named Barry. But I went to sell it, looked it up online, can't find it anywhere online. And so I sent a note to Yamaha, gave them the serial numbers, and they said, oh, that's a hand-built prototype guitar. There was only 6 brought to Canada to sell the following year's guitars. And the guy's name was Barry, and he said, I sold it to Steve in the Maritimes, and that's the guitar I have.

Man.

Isn't that unbelievable?

It's just the best.

Yeah, right. Thank you so much, Adam. You're amazing. It's just been a wonderful chat with you.

Thanks, Wayne. Thanks for being with us. And, uh, everybody, we so appreciate your feedback. We live on the feedback. We're We're interested in knowing how we can serve you better, make the show better. So please leave a comment if you'd be kind enough. Go to adammarkel.com/podcast. You can leave a comment there, or of course you can leave it on iTunes and Stitcher and those places. And if you haven't subscribed, please do that as well. And one last reminder, for me, my waking ritual has remained the same since those days when I was living a very stressed out life as a lawyer. And I don't believe that you have to be stressed out as a lawyer, so just to be clear, I just didn't have the tools. tools at the time to really manage that well. And I put my feet on the floor back then and I'd feel this sense of dread, that anxiety and stress at the beginning of the day. It's an awful way to start. But for more than 10 years now, I put my feet on the floor, I feel gratitude, I really do awake with that wanting to have the attitude of gratefulness and appreciation. And then I say something out loud. I say 4 words out loud, which don't have to be your words at all. But you could try them on if you like, and I'd love to know, we'd love to know what words you start your day with. Mine are every day, I love my life. That's it, 4 words, really simple. And in this time that we're living in, I'd say there's a parenthetical statement to add to that, which is no matter what. I love my life no matter what. So wherever we're meeting you right now, hope that, hope your day is, your evening, whatever it is, that it's lovely. That you're enjoying it, that you're grateful for it, and we appreciate you. So ciao for now, everybody.

Thanks for listening. We hope you now have even more tools and greater insights to build resilience and become change-proof. Remember to leave a review on Apple Podcasts and you may be featured in an upcoming episode. For more resilience tips and strategies, including support for building change-proof teams, visit AdamMarkel.com. To get your own free resilience assessment, go to RankMyResilience.com.