#86: Dr. Ivan Misner on Harmony Over Balance

Thank you, Adam. Thanks for having me on. Listen, I got to tell you, you are the most self-actualized man I know with a JD at the end of his name.

I am trying to figure out if I'm officially a recovering attorney or recovered, but I don't know. In any event, one of those two, I suppose.

It's great to be on your show. Thanks.

Well, it's a pleasure to have you here. That's a mouthful. And I think even reading that, I've got to believe a lifetime of effort and concentrated effort went into these things. And I would love to know what's not written in that bio that you would love people to know about you personally.

Well, that's a great question. And I think the one thing that is often brought up when people go deep in an interview is how do you have any kind of balance and have that kind of life? And so, and it's a topic that I rarely talk about. I love that question because it enables me to talk about it. I have what I think is the secret to balance. You want to hear it?

I got my pen handy. I hope every one of you have pulled off the road now, stopped the treadmill, whatever you got to do, listen up.

Okay, here it is. This is the secret to balance. Forget about balance. You'll never have it. Now, inevitably, I say that to people, and if I'm in a live audience, there's always somebody up front that goes, oh God, I thought I was going to hear something amazing. All right, hang on. You still might hear something amazing. I don't believe, especially if you're an entrepreneur or a business person, your life is crazy out of balance. The problem is we look at the concept of balance like Lady Justice, right? Where you have the scales of justice and your life must be in this incredible balance where you're spending this amount of time on your business and this amount of time on your family and this amount of time on your spiritual life and health, and everything's got to be completely balanced. I think that's impossible. I don't even recommend you try to get it. Instead, what I believe in— and here's the true answer to the question— is I believe in harmony. I believe you can have a life of harmony. And harmony is way different than balance. Even the logo for harmony, the yin and the yang, when separated, are out of balance. It's only together that you can create a life of harmony. And, and so although I have not had a very balanced life, I travel extensively. I traveled as my kids were young. I do have a life that I believe is full of harmony. And here's— there's many things that I've talked about as to create a life of harmony, but here's one. If you want to talk about more, I'll give you more. Be here now. Those few simple words, be here now, 3 simple words. Really make a difference and made a difference in my life. Wherever you are—

Resilience. It's the unsung hero in every success story that you will ever hear about. And in times of massive change and disruption, the kind of rapid change that we're all experiencing as leaders, as business owners, as entrepreneurs, we have to learn how to not only increase our own resilience, but that of our teams. So right now we have a powerful opportunity for you to find out just how resilient you are. Some years ago, my team and I created The resilience assessment that more than 5,000 business leaders across the globe have taken. And all you have to do to get your own free resilience leader assessment is go to resiliencerank.com. It takes less than 3 minutes, and it's our gift to you for being the leader that you already are. Other free resources and tools will accompany your score instantly. So go to resiliencerank.com and find out just how resilient you are. You are—

Are, be fully there. So don't be at home thinking about that work project that has to get done at the office. Be there with your family and with your kids. Don't be at the office thinking about the fact that you didn't spend time with your kids last night. So wherever you are, be fully present to that moment. And with that and a number of other techniques, I think I have had a life of harmony. And even though there's pieces that are out of balance, it's been a harmonious life for the most part. Nobody's perfect, by the way, but

pretty

good. Well,

I would just say out loud to the audience, the folks watching and listening to this, that this was not a setup because Ivan and I did not discuss this ahead of time. Even Ivan, you don't know why I'm saying what I'm saying. But for a long while, I think people have heard me share what you just shared, that balance is one of these things that is Not quite a fool's errand. It's chasing something elusive that does not exist, but yet somehow the media or wherever it was perpetuated or announced that we should be seeking balance. It's a really interesting thing because if you imagine what's a symbol of balance, I think of like the most extreme version of balance would look like the guy that walked between when the Twin Towers stood, the French gentleman that walked between the Twin Towers.

Right.

On a tightrope. And you think about both the risk of what would happen if he fell, obviously death, and the fact that it is so much work and that there's almost no time when you can even relax and be here now because to lose focus on the high wire is to die.

Right.

And I think when people set themselves up for that level of, you know, for that task, it won't pay them the dividend they're looking for. Which is to find peace, to find serenity, to find themselves even. Right. So, it's beautiful. I so appreciate that you brought that up, especially with everything that you've been doing in your life and accomplished in your life, to sort of debunk the myth that we're supposed to seek balance. To have it come out of your mouth is a lot more credible than the workaholic or recovering workaholic that I was. To this day, I still work a lot. And it's just different because I'm not seeking balance. And frankly, you can create harmony even in a high-stress environment or in an environment where, as you say, to be an entrepreneur, there's a never-ending list of things that— It's intense. That's the understatement of the century, right? It's intense. And one last thing I want to plus what you just said too, which is with the author of an amazing book called The Presence Process, and his name is Michael Brown. And he added a couple of words to the be here now mantra or statement, and he added the words in this. Be here now in this, which is just what you were saying, that right now, this moment, how could this moment be anything other than what it is? And we're either in it and able to learn from it, able to process what's happening, integrate even the emotional things, because it's mostly— that book is mostly a book about Our emotional state of being and how much trauma is sort of unresolved in our lives and how it is that we integrate that is the process you just described. So thank you so much for sharing that.

My pleasure. And it's so easy to— people think about multitasking, and so they're doing multiple things and they're trying to keep all these balls in the air or spinning all of these plates. And my experience is, you know, just spin one plate at a time. And then start with the next one. And that's a better way to create harmony in your life. Here's one that a lot of people don't talk about with harmony. Yeah. One of the things that I've always been a believer in is creating margins in my life.

Mm-hmm.

Margins. So that when I'm really, really busy, I make sure to have a margin just like in the lines of a paper where I'm not busy. This is my time. This is my family time. This is our time. Here's a great way that I've created margins my entire life is that I always have one day a week unless I'm traveling or there are exceptions, but almost always one day a week that I call it my mental health day. A week, it's my mental health day. I hang around the pool or I watch movies or I just spend time with the family. Don't go out. Don't ask me to go out. Don't ask me to go do something. And Beth had a hard time with this when we first got married. It was one of the ways I kept my sanity and kept my focus was having the margin of one day a week to just be present.

Yes. That's a radical principle today for sure because there's almost no margins in people's lives. The business life distinction, it's as if the margins have disappeared. Yeah.

Right. I see a lot of people, they're just miserable. They're working and working and working and they're miserable. It's not easy, but it's possible to do.

Yeah. We were talking before we did hit the record button about some influential or people that have influenced us. And I mentioned Emmet Fox, who's sort of from the— I think he passed away in the '50s, but still his message really, I think, has applicability today. And he interpreted the Bible. I mean, that's the Bible. That's a biblical principle that there's one day of rest. I mean, even God himself took a day, right? Like, who are you not to take it? Who are you? Who am I?

I'm nothing compared to that.

So, yeah. Wow. Interesting. Ivan, I'd love for you if you would bring us back in time to a pivot moment, something that you've learned. Obviously, what you've shared already, the idea that we are looking to create harmony, that harmony is something we can seek and balance is sort of this whirlpool, if you will, that creating margins in our lives for ourselves, for our own Self-care is one of those things that will contribute to our success. And I want to come back and close that loop a little bit later, but take us to a time in your life when maybe you didn't feel harmony, whether it was something to do with business or personal things or health or what have you, and what it is that that was like for you and what'd you learn in the process that informed you going forward?

How far do you want to go

back? You want to go back to birth? You can.

We've had people go that far. I think the biggest pivot moment in my life was long before I started BNI. I was a young man in high school. That was probably the biggest pivot moment for me. And it ended up— I realized a few years ago, you know, everybody talks about understand your why and talk about your why. My biggest pivot moment really has become my why. Why I do the things that I do today. And it was a real epiphany when I went deep and really thought about this. So I was 13 years old. And I had run for student council in junior high school and I lost every time. Ran twice, lost. Didn't just lose, I was decimated. Wasn't just decimated, I was like dead last. I was the laughingstock of the school. It's like, ah, Meister's gonna run again, what an idiot. And so I just, I lost. And so usually in high school that you run for student council the year before and then you— but as a freshman you had to do it the year The very first couple of weeks of school. So here we were, I was a freshman, I had just run and lost in junior high. And so now I'm a freshman. They selected the student council from the freshman class, history class. And so the history teacher, Mr. Romero, changed my life. Mr. Romero said, so open for nominations for student council. You can nominate someone or you can volunteer. Is anyone interested? I remember sitting back going, yeah, I'm not gonna do that. Been there, done that. I'm out. Love to do it, but very painful. So he said, come on, some— anybody. And I swear, Adam, I'm not making this up. Cindy, one of the cheerleaders, stood up and she said, Mr. Romero, I'd run, but I'm just so busy in cheerleading that I don't have the time to do this. Okay. And she stepped back. Of course, Romero's like, okay. Thanks, Cindy. I appreciate you telling me that. And so he said, look, if nobody's gonna run, I get to pick. Are you okay with that? You know, I was like, yeah, pick, we don't care, whoever you want. And so Romero looks around the room and he stops at me and he says, I bet you'd like to do this, wouldn't you? Now, he'd only known me 2 weeks. He said, I mean, I bet you'd like to do this, wouldn't you? I said, well, wow, Mr. Romero, Yeah, I'd kind of like to do that. You said, okay, Ivan is the student council representative. Now, I swear to you, Adam, the entire class at one time says, oh no, not Ivan! Anybody but Ivan! Cindy stands up. I swear Cindy stood up and says, oh, Mr. Romero, if you're gonna pick Ivan, I'll do it. I'll run. And, and I remember sitting there thinking, wow, like, these are my peers. And they just— do they have any idea how hurtful that is? And, you know, I was a 13-year-old boy. I didn't have a crystal ball. I didn't know that I would create a global organization, that I'd be a New York Times bestselling author, that I would— I didn't know any of that. I just knew my peers really didn't respect me very much. That's an understatement. And Romero was amazing. He said, nope, you empowered me to make the decision. Ivan is the student council representative. Everyone turn up— turn your books to chapter 2, page 35. And we were off to the races. And I remember the rest of that year wanting to make him proud because he just gave me an opportunity, one that I had always wanted to have but didn't have, and that I just wanted to do the absolute best job I could possibly do. And so that, you know, he could feel good about that decision he made. And at the end of that year, Adam, at the end of that year, that same class who said, oh no, not Ivan, elected the sophomore. And that class elected me, the same class that said, oh no, not Ivan. And I ended up being student body president 3 or 4 years later. It changed my life, absolutely changed my life. And it became my why, because I realized that almost every business— when I went back in time and thought about this experience, it hit me. that almost every business I've ever started was about helping someone be their best. That's what BNI is. I can't make anyone successful in BNI. You join BNI, it's up to you. You got to do the hard work, but I can give you the process. I can give you the opportunity. I can give you the system, but you got to do the hard work. And almost every business I've started after that experience has been to do that. And that was my pivot moment. And it was given to me by a very thoughtful teacher who saw something in me that I didn't see in myself.

Yes. Clearly, a pivotal moment. And I've shared with you before, right, that I was a BNI president, chapter president in Woodbridge, New Jersey, long ago when my lawyering was my day gig. I'm sure there are folks— I'm fascinated. We've never discussed how it is that you incubated the idea, where BNI came from, what that was all about. Were you doing something else at the time? Would you take us back to that moment? Because I think there's a lot of people certainly in this community who are entrepreneurial. Some have day jobs and are doing something entrepreneurial on the side. It's kind of a side hustle for them. And others are full-time entrepreneurs doing their thing and looking for the big one. Bring us back to that time.

I would love to. And if I could just add one thing to the previous story, because I want to give a takeaway for people who are listening to this. I think it's important for you, if you're listening to this, to think back about your why. What happened in your life changed the direction of your life and how it's impacting what you're doing today? Because when you understand those pivot moments, then you are better able to talk to people about how you are qualified to help them in some way. So your why helps you today, not just back then. So with BNI, I'd like to tell you I had this vision of an international organization, but the truth is I needed some referrals for my consulting practice and I had a group of friends I wanted to help. So we got together and we started passing referrals to each other. Someone came who couldn't join and she asked me if— because we only take one person per professional classification. So you remember as an attorney, you can maybe have 2 or 3 different kinds of attorneys in a group, but it's limited based on professional classification. Her classification was taken and she asked me if I'd help her open up her own group. And I actually, Adam, I actually said no. Why? This isn't what I do. I'm a business consultant. And she said, well, this is helping me build my business and that's kind of what you do. So I'm like, okay, yeah, it is. So yes. And then at the first meeting of her group, several people came who couldn't join because of a classification conflict and they asked me to help them open. I ended up opening 20 chapters the first year by accident. And it was at that point that I realized I had struck a chord in the business community. We don't teach networking in colleges and universities. And that was the point at which I sat down and created the plan to make BNI be national, if not international. We now have, as of this morning, I get a daily report, 8,556 chapters in 73 countries around the world.

Yeah. Remarkable. Well, having been an entrepreneur since I was 15 and you started early, so what was the age when you began sort of on the business track? Was it after college or?

No, I mean, you know, I did stuff as a— in junior high, I sold suckers at the— Ah,

all right.

I found regulations are problematic because I had to walk to school. I missed the bus one day.

Were you the guy that ran on the platform of, we're going to bring Coke machines in?

I probably would have, but I'll tell you what happened was— but see, I lost in junior high. But what I did was I had to walk to school one day and there were these big suckers that cost a nickel. I mean, a nickel, 5 cents for— this was back in '70, 1970. And I showed up to school and I had like a whole bag of them. And someone said, I'll give you 10 cents for that. I'm like, sure. So I had a 50% margin there.

I was going to say— wow. The pace of change over the last couple of years has been rapid. And if you're a leader, a business owner, an entrepreneur, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Every day it's something different and something new. But the one thing that I've learned in performing at the height of all of those roles has been that we must be resilient. In fact, it's the unsung hero in every success story that you will ever hear about. And it's the reason why my team and I created the resilience assessment that more than 5,000 business leaders across the globe have taken. And all you have to do to get your own free resilience leader assessment is go to resiliencerank.com. It takes less than 3 minutes and it's It's our gift to you for being the leader that you already are. Other free resources and tools will accompany your score instantly. So, go to resiliencerank.com and find out just how resilient you are. You're in the arbitrage business before you knew it.

Yeah. So, I'm selling all these suckers and then one day I got called in by the principal.

You're selling all these suckers. This is a theme.

Well, they're lollipops. So the principal called me in and he said, Ivan, you can't sell lollipops. You can't sell candy in school. So you got to stop now. And I said, really? You can't sell any candy? He said, no. I said, well, what about that fundraiser that we did this year where we sold candy for the school? And he's like, well, that's different. I'm like, well, how's it different? It's your candy versus my candy. He said, you want to get suspended? I'm like, oh, okay, fine. So That's when I found out that government regulation can make business difficult.

So, my question for you is, how important is resilience in the process and how would you define what resilience is to you in business and in life, honestly? Because the thing, I guess, in this point for me is, if you don't continue forward from not so much endurance but the ability to continue to find out and explore and iterate new things and innovate. If you cannot do that, you'll never succeed, let alone thrive in business or in many other areas of life. So, what's your experience of resilience and how would you define that?

So, I may not be the smartest man in a room when I walk in. I may not be the most talented man in a room, but I am almost always the most persistent man in a room. I am the most determined man in a room. So for me, resilience involves being like a dog with a bone on something. And if you've got a problem in life, what you want to do is look for alternatives to achieve that objective. So resilience doesn't mean giving up. It means— to me, it doesn't mean giving up. It means trying it a different way. If this didn't work, then try this. And if that didn't work, then try that. And if that doesn't work, then try this. That's what resilience is because if you're a man on a mission, if you're a person on a mission, you want to accomplish that, just try it from different angles and be persistent as heck.

My dad's a writer. Just before we turned on the mic, we were talking about family and parents and things. And my dad's 81 and has written, I don't know, dozens and dozens of books and plays and things. And he's been published and all that but has never had that big, huge success, at least not a commercial success with his writing. And he's a creative writer, so it's all fiction. And, but he's, from the time that I was very, very young, earliest memories of him typing at night, keys on the old typewriter, music playing, him editing constantly for years and years. His persistence has been one of the biggest influences in my life. You brought that up, persistence, determination, even for me as a lawyer, tenacity. I was routinely up against much bigger firms, but because of the level of my tenacity, I would win and they were— or they would pay my client money because they just said, hey, this guy's sending me papers on a Saturday. He's sending me— in New York City, you could put things in the mail. The post office was open until midnight. So, at 11:50 at night, you could have postmarked papers and things.

Right.

And I would routinely be sending things out at odd hours of the day and night just to show the other person whatever it takes, that kind of thing. But what I found is that that led for me to burnout. So, for example, I practiced law for 18 years and at a certain point when I pivoted, which is what initially was the catalyst for the book pivot, it was really the fact that I had become detached on some level from my heart. I was disconnected from my heart because all I did was work and all I did was sort of eat, breathe, sleep beating the other guy or being more persistent than the other guy. Yeah. The book that we're incubating right now is called Embrace, and it's a book about change. It's all about how to utilize change. And the path to that ability is through something, our definition of resilience. And in that context, we look at resilience as holistic, as mental, emotional, spiritual, and physical resilience. So what can you say? What are your thoughts on the other areas of your, whether it's your habits or your rituals or the way that you approach life and business to create resilience?

Well, I think I can answer that question by addressing your comment about you at some point felt, lack of a better word, burned out on all the work, 18 years of doing something. I think it's really important that people reinvent themselves.

Mm-hmm.

I love BNI. I love what I've created. I am humbled by what it has become. And I got sick and tired of dealing with the day-to-day stuff of running a global company. I think an entrepreneur, and this is the most important message I think I can give you on this topic is an entrepreneur is either working in their flame or working in their wax. And when they're working in their flame, they're excited, they're passionate, they love what they're doing. You can hear it in their voice. You can see it in the way they act. And when they're working in their wax, it just takes all their energy away. And what was my flame for 30 years over that 30-year period became my wax. Building a franchise organization really became my wax. And so it was time to reinvent myself. And that happens, by the way, long before 30 years usually. And it happened for me before 30 years, but that's when I was able to make the full switch and bring in partners to the company who— my CEO now loves running the company. God bless him. And he's great at it. And now I'm doing my flame. So what's my flame? This is my flame. Doing interviews, writing, working with the media, speaking to audiences, that's my flame today. I'm sort of the Colonel Sanders of BNI now, and that's— I love to do it. So the answer, I think—

You got the hair for it. You got the beard for it.

Yeah, I got to shave the beard.

I'm letting mine grow for a little bit here.

Oh yeah? Well, let me tell you, I had a goatee for many, many, many years, but my wife was gone for like a week, and I just didn't feel like shaving, so I didn't shave. And my wife of almost 30 years comes home and she looks at me and she goes, I like it, very distinguished. I'm like, when your wife of 30 years—

Brother, when your wife says that to you, it's a keeper.

It's a keeper.

Put it that way.

Yeah. So

normally

it's that, but that's the key, is you got to reinvent yourself so that you're passionate about what you're doing. Because if you're passionate about what you're doing, you're going to be your best.

Well, it's interesting because in Pivot: The Art and Science of Reinventing Your Career and Life, we talk about identity. And I want to get your thoughts on this because a lot of people feel like in that pursuit of their passion, and people have been through all kinds of tests and they've been to personal development seminars and it's like they're in search of their passion. I've heard some people talk recently, billionaires speak about this idea of passion and how important it is. And yet, at the same time, That in business, success comes from opportunistic investment and in following your gut from a business standpoint, not necessarily from a standpoint of what's your passion. And I want to tie to that this idea that people are searching for that thing that represents their identity, their reason for being born, and the thing that they're supposed to be doing in the world. And I've stood on stages and shared that message with many people over the years, so I'm not contradicting it, but I'm questioning it because to me, I don't know that we're born with an identity and that identity is what we are for our lives. Our identity at 18, when you talked about being with your— in high school and having your— wanting to have some role of leadership and not being able to accomplish that without the assistance of someone else who looked at you and saw in you something or at least was willing to support you. Your identity at 18, your identity at 28, your identity at 52 or at 70 is different. That's my theory. Do you buy into that? And if so, how is it that— is that how you talk about when you say reinvention? Are you really talking about what is your identity here now at this stage in your life?

Yeah, everybody's identity changes over time. There's no question about that. Mine has in many ways. I think there's another issue and that is Were you living your passion before? For those people who were living their passion, BNI has been my passion for 33 years. So the last 33 years, has my identity changed? Probably not a lot. I mean, there's always change, but probably not a lot. But my role within the organization has changed. So the question is, are you living your passion? And as long as you're living your passion, you might not have a lot of change over time. I think it's the people that are living their day-to-day life in this indentured servitude of a job and they're not happy, they have to make this massive change of who they are in order to be happy and passionate about what they do. Or you got to— Or they confuse— Like I did where I just was the same business, same identity, but I wanted to get out in a different role. Does that make sense?

It makes perfect sense because I do think we can confuse our identity with our role. People will identify themselves as a mother, as a father, as a son, a daughter, or whatever, or as a CEO, or as something else. And so, the role, the role or roles that we play in our life have a lot to do with how we think about who we are in the world. So, I think you've posed a very important question, which is, what is your true identity? What is that? That's a question that we ask, and I think about that myself quite often, and whether it is that what you do is your identity or is it... Yeah. Or is it something else?

Well, I think if what you do is just a job, it's probably not what you consider to be your identity. And those are the people that are often saying, why am I doing this? You know, how much money do I really need? Now, on the other hand, some people, their identity is about making money. That's it.

Exactly.

And maybe they're happy doing that. Other people, they're not. Making money at some point just isn't as important as living the life that you want to live.

How many people do you know, without naming names of course, that have success in sort of societally accepted terms. They have a lot of money, they have wealth, but they're miserable. They have crap relationships, their body is quitting on them, and all kinds— their kids don't talk to them, and any number of other things that would be inharmonious.

Right. And many of them are in positions of teaching other people how to have an amazing life.

Interesting about that, isn't it?

Yeah. It's like—

We definitely won't name names, but this—

No, no, we won't.

Certainly, it's a black eye in the industry that there's that I'm sure we would— congruence, right?

I'm sure we have some of the same names, but it's like, here, take my advice. I'm not using it. So you use it. There are people like that.

Indeed. Share a little bit about now where it is that you've pivoted and reinvented because you are the Chief Visionary Officer for the company that you founded. And now you've got somebody that who is your operator, which was something that you were no longer in love with doing, operating. And this guy is in love with it. So, I know you mentioned earlier some of the things you actively engage in, but speak about the foundation, speak about things that right now you are truly passionate about that represents the pivot forward for you.

Well, certainly the foundation is one of them, the BNI Foundation, and now Beth and I created the Meisner Family Foundation. I think that I can't tell you as a business person what to do or those of you listening to us. I can speak for myself. I believe I have an obligation to put back into the communities from which I draw. And so Beth and I have supported many causes, mostly related to children and education. And I think we've made a difference in a lot of people's lives. And, you know, there's never enough money to do it all. But here's my attitude about it. You may not be able— as an individual, you may feel like you may not be able to make a world of difference, but you can make a difference in the world. And you do that one kid at a time. One scholarship at a time, just one bit of assistance at a time. Because I believe you heard me talk about Mr. Romero and how he's in my story. We all have people in our story, all of us. But the real question at some point in your life is not who's in your story, but whose story are you in? That's the real question. Whose life are you making a difference in where they say this person just? Changed my life because they just did this little thing or this massive thing or whatever it is they did. It's not who's in your story that really matters as you get older. It's whose story are you in? And so, it's about contributing to others. And I think that's what the foundation, BNI Foundation does and the Meisner Foundation does. I'm excited about that. I'm excited about new books I'm working on. So, there's a lot of things.

That's beautiful. Can you share any? We will have full show notes as people know. We'll have links to things and we'll add those in afterward. But is there a book that you've got coming out that you'd like to share? There'll be a book out this year.

I'll share a little bit with you, and you may have heard Stuart Emery or myself talk about it at Transformational Leadership Council. For those of you who don't know, Adam and I are both members of an organization called the Transformational Leadership Council, and Stuart Emery is my co-author with this book, Who's in Your Room? Have you heard Stuart talk about Who's in Your Room, Adam?

I haven't yet, no.

All right. Well, I'll tell you about it.

Cool.

I'll do it in 2 minutes. The book should be out by November. Imagine that you live your life in one room. And that one room has one door, and that one door is an enter-only door so that when people come into your life, they're there forever. You can never get them out. Now, luckily, this is a metaphor. If this were true, Adam, would you be more selective about the people that you've let into your life over the years?

Can I say yes, underscore, capitalize, exclamation point?

And by the way, that's what everybody says. Everyone we've ever talked to has said, oh yeah, I'd be, I'd be a lot more careful. So then why aren't we? Why aren't we more careful? And I would argue with you that this is more than a metaphor, that they're actually— even though you think they are out of your life, they're still in your head. And if they're still in your head, they're in your room, because the decisions you make in the future Will, to a large extent, based on the— will be based on the good experiences and bad experiences that you had over your lifetime. It'll be based on the people that you've allowed into your room. And so even though you think they're out of your life, they're still in your head. And if they're in your head, they're in your room. And so we talk about this concept, and then we talk about how do you— now that you understand the room and the concept, how do you screen people from coming in? And how do you deal with the people that you should have never let in to begin with? And how do you live the life of your dreams? And this is the first self-help book I've done, and I've done it with a master.

I really hope you're enjoying this episode of the Change Proof Podcast. If you've not yet gone out and gotten your own copy of Change Proof, it's not too late. You can get your copy right now by going to changeproof.com and not only getting the book and all the bonuses there, but getting access to our proprietary resilience assessment tool. It'll just take you 3 minutes to do, and it's something that will really help you to utilize the book even more effectively to create practices and rituals and habits that will increase your mental, emotional, physical, And even spiritual resilience for the long term. Again, go to changeproof.com to get your copy today.

Stuart Emery, and should be out in November. We're really excited about it. It's a quick read, 15,000 words.

Fantastic. We'll be sure to let folks know about the actual on-sale date and places they can get it, including, of course, Amazon, I'm assuming.

Yeah.

One quick question about that, just because It's a thread I wanted to follow, so we'll take a second or two on that. How does forgiveness play into that? Do you address forgiveness as part of the— what do you do? Because I know I'm thinking about it, I'm sure people are. What do you do with people who are in your room because they were in your room 10 years ago or 2 years ago or whatever it is? They're there because like you said, the room up here and between your ears is a place where they are.

Yeah, so we don't really talk too much about forgiveness. We talk about more if they're in your room and you really don't want them in your life anymore, How to shift them out of— how to put them—

Gently usher them to the door.

Well, yeah, but you can't see— we say they're still in there. You basically put them in a box and put them on a shelf. That's what my mom used to tell me when I was a kid. If you got something going on in your head, you got to stick it in a box and put it on the shelf. It'll still be there, but you got to compartmentalize it. And so we talk about how some really specific techniques on how to compartmentalize those kinds of people. Forgiveness is a very, I think, a very spiritual thing that you need to focus on. And that's not a direction that we went in the book, but maybe in one of the sequels.

Well, maybe so. We're going to wrap up in just a second. Ivan, love to know what's one of the rituals that you've got to practice that assists you. I say ritual, it's not religious. These people know that having listened to the show that we're talking about master habits, things we do consciously. Is there a ritual that you've got that's helped you both to be resilient Well, let's stick with resilience. So what's one of those rituals that you have?

So, you know, I'm a believer in contemplative time, either through meditation or what I do daily, and I mean probably 6 days, 7 days a week. I have built out a steam shower in every home that I've lived in for the last 35 years. And one of my daily rituals is to sit in the steam shower and just be, just contemplate. And it's really amazing how many answers have come to me to problems that I've had in my life where I'm just sitting in the steam and not even thinking about the problem and boom, it just hits me. This is what I need to do on this thing that's been on my mind for a long time. Contemplative practice that I've had for a good 35 years and it's literally daily.

Beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that. Thank you. Everybody, we started with gratitude and that's where we'll conclude this session reminding ourselves how important it is that we can be grateful in this moment for something. If you're doubting that, of course, just recognize that in this moment where we're breathing, whatever it is you guys are doing, maybe you're on the treadmill, maybe you're driving, you're walking, or in some other way, some other place you're consuming this content. And taking a deep breath right now. And as you do that, as you receive that conscious breath, there are people who are taking their very last breath in this moment. So it is— it's a moment that is like no other. It's certainly not guaranteed. We're not guaranteed the next breath either. So I want to express my intention with love that each of you that is watching, listening, and Ivan, to you, to Beth, to your family, Certainly to the people that I know as well, that we all get to wake up tomorrow. Again, not a guarantee, but that we get to wake up and we get to experience gratitude in that waking moment, knowing of course that that's not guaranteed and not everybody is getting that moment, that moment in time. And there are powerful words that we can start our day with. And I am reminding myself of those words as I say them right now and reminding all of you out there. That the way you begin your day is very powerful as a ritual. The first seeds that you plant in the soil in the morning are very powerful. So, wake up, be in gratitude, and lastly, if you're willing to say these words out loud, say, I love my life. I love my life. I love my life. Ivan, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for being on the show. I'm so looking forward to the new book and really appreciating you and all the work you're doing in the world. Thank you.

Thank you, Adam, and I love my life and I love your show.

Thank you again. Bye-bye, everybody. Ciao for now.

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