Let The Pasture Rest: On Regenerative Agriculture, Humility In Nature, And Operation Turtle With Stephen Smith

How transparent do you want me to be? Because what really came to me was that there are a lot of times where I really struggle. You know, I have a lot of these waves of doubt and fear. That come up on this entrepreneurial journey. And those challenging days when they come up, those days where you feel alone, you feel absolutely crazy or any number of other kinds of negative emotions or descriptors, that's not on my Instagram, that's not on my CV. But I think we're coming into a time of radical transparency and we're coming into a time where let's just get more real. And the reality is that's what just came up when you asked that question. I obviously had no preparation. And I've had anxiety and depression since I was a child. And there's some really hard, dark days when you're a solo entrepreneur, when you're trying to bring back something that really hasn't existed in the public space for over 100 years in the case of hemp medicine. Yeah, I'm human and I have some really dark days that challenge me, but also I think are very relevant to our conversation around regeneration and resilience. Yeah.

Yeah. I just know it's helpful for me to hear anybody talk about their life in a way that is transparent because there's so much fake, so many facades out there. It's kind of tough to even discern, I think, what's facade anymore from what is actually real, to use your word. So I appreciate that. I know anybody that's taking this in right now, they're feeling the same way. I think they probably go, well, well, get even more granular for us then. Get even more, more detail. Gimme the gory details here. I'll just say, I'll say to you in response to that, the mind is a bitch, man.

Right?

I think it was John Kehoe who said something like, the mind is a trickster. So I, I'm just upping the ante on that one. Our minds can give us a really hard time. And to think on some level, anybody to think on some level that your mind is unique in that respect, I'm just going to call bullshit right out of the gate on that because it's not true. It's just not true. And I don't care what a person looks like, how well-equipped they seem, how well-dressed, how put together, how much money. I don't give a fuck any of that. I know through a lot of experience that their mind is their greatest challenge, just like that might be the case for any of you. And so what we do with that, I think, is a big deal. And I'm not a big, very religious person. I'm not religious really, I suppose, at all, but I'm really dialed into my own, to the spirit within me and the connection that my spirit is, how it's connected to every other living thing. And I try to lean into that as much from the beginning, from the very first waking thoughts of the day as I possibly can. And in that context, I think about something that I heard that was in the Bible, that's part of the Bible. And I think it's a wonderful statement that we are transformed by the renewing of our mind. And I think that statement that we are transformed by the renewing of our mind has fascinated me because it's that word renewing and what renewal actually means. So I want to throw that in your lap because you've devoted a good chunk of your adult life to renewal, to regeneration, starting in the, with the soil. I'd love for you to give us a little backstory. I know you, you come from North Carolina and you learned a bunch about the land and what it means to live in a more conscious way on the land. But I really want to just get your thoughts on renewal and renewing. Yeah. And all that, if you would.

Yeah.

Like what's the origin story?

Sure, sure. I mean, the first thing I think about is when I was exposed about 13 years ago to some regenerative agriculture and permaculture and biodynamic practices. And at the core essence of a lot of those agricultural methods or philosophies are building vitality from within. So a farm is an ecosystem, much like the body is an ecosystem, much like the planet is an ecosystem. And when I was exposed to these farming practices, my mind and heart and consciousness kind of opened up to these concepts of kind of this closed-loop system and building vitality and minimizing kind of external or off-farm inputs in the case of farming. And these natural living systems are teachers. And whether you're humbled by the waves when you're surfing or you're trying to grow food and you're at the mercy of what nature brings you. These cycles, a lot of contemporary culture has gotten quite far away because we're in the habit of trying to kind of control and build our own realities separate from nature in an effort to increase efficiency or convenience, for example. And these farms, there's a certain level of biodiversity, there's a certain level of kind of, it's dynamic and that resilience comes from it being dynamic and biodiversified. And every season, The leaves will shed, maybe not in California, but other parts of the world. Nature goes through these cycles, and I think we do as humans. And there hasn't been a lot of space in our modern culture for renewal and regeneration because generally in my experience, that comes when there's rest involved. That comes when there's an ability to recover. And in this kind of contemporary Sisyphean grind culture, there's not much space for that. So I find these parallels having started 13 years ago in regenerative agriculture, seeing what we need to do to pay attention to the long-term health of these farms. And there's so, so many parallels in how we can live our lives in the ways that landscapes can heal and evolve and farms can regenerate. So I don't know, that was a bit tangential and abstract, but the point is, I think that If we can really tune into these natural cycles, we'll see that renewal and regeneration is everywhere around us if we can just be humble enough to let ourselves fall into those natural cycles.

Yes. So back to that other sort of digression of mine. What do you do to renew your mind? You opened with, transparently speaking, you have your dark days. You question your, probably the wisdom in continuing on the journey you're on. I would think that's part of what you question. You question your worthiness, you question your Probably many of the things that we all question, like, are you doing the right thing, etc.? So, when those moments happen, when you feel that darkness, where the wall's closing in, or the isolation, or the feeling, the smallness, or the weakness, or the vulnerability, what do you do to renew your mind?

Well, I'd say a year and a half ago, I used to just drink more coffee and double down. Thank you. And that led me to burnout. It led me to— the boat started taking on water with my business. I experienced a bit of an ego death, and I realized, you know what? That style of grinding and pushing and fighting and this masculine just hustle, it got me there. Okay? But either I was going to go down a dark depression and/or the company was going to fail, or I had to make some quick objective but heartfelt changes. And I consolidated my business. I let go of some sort of weird entitlement as though I was just going to be successful. Not to say that I wasn't working my absolute tail off, but there was this ego that kind of said, oh, you're going to hit it. You're going to, you know, it's going to cash flow. It's going to work. But it was coming from a bit of an entitlement place and that dissolved. And I really started to pay attention to the land around me, the farms I've worked at to go back to that. And now if I'm having an off day, I'll message my team every so often. Thank goodness it doesn't happen too consistently or too frequently. I say, hey, hit me if there's an emergency, but I'm taking an afternoon off. And sometimes I watch Netflix and I watch a documentary and I get my head off of it and say, hey, tomorrow I'll feel better. Sometimes I go run up a mountain. Exercise is huge for me. I'm very tactile and very physical. I'm very athletic. And 99% of the time, if I start lifting rocks or running up a mountain, 99% of the time I feel myself at the end. Because I think myself, my real spirit, is happy, is loving, is confident, is humble. And it's kind of like the layering of this contemporary experience and the comparison or being alone up on this hill, running the company by myself, more or less. It's those kind of those layers on top that make me feel bad or dark or depressed or anxious. But when I crack that veneer of this contemporary experience off and I get in touch with my soul through exercise or community is huge. Yeah. And that's part of the reason why I'm excited to travel this winter. I live in a beautiful place, but I'm really alone a lot. Community is important. Exercise. I But sometimes you just gotta shut the computer and just say, I'm going to take some hours off. And I used to shame myself and feel like that wasn't acceptable and that the harder I pushed, the more progress I would make. But it's just not right. I mean, if you look at how good land stewards manage land, sometimes a pasture oftentimes needs to rest.

There you go.

My business needed the last 12 months to slow down. Slim out, regroup. And thank God I don't have some VC or private equity, you know what's pressuring me to grow at some unrealistic consistent pace. We trimmed down, we consolidated, we focused, and now we're coming back with more intention and more rest and juice than ever. So in my opinion, it's been 100% worth it and I wouldn't have had it any other way.

Yeah. The idea of slowing down to speed up is an anathema to so many of us because we're just brought up to think that you're supposed to Go, go, go, go. And even when you're exhausted, that's the time when you're supposed to go, go, go, go, because that's what separates you from other people that might quit along the way. So yeah, we're going to come back to that. There's just a couple of themes that are emerging here for me that, first of all, the word humility. How important is humility to you? Because that's a big, big important word in my life for a long time, and you used it earlier. How important is humility to you?

It's huge. I'm wrong a lot, and I think Yeah, it's a balance between really having that vision and that passion and being confident and exercising humility and being humble. It's that perfect cocktail that we're kind of seeking for a real healthy endurance. Like you can endure, but I don't know. I just don't believe that that style of enduring is as healthy as what I feel like I'm exploring in the last 12 months. So I want to learn. I want to be of service to people. I want to ask people questions. I don't know everything. I'd rather ask a question, wrap my head around something, get an experience quicker than bullshitting and saying I know it and then fumbling around to it. You know, I just, I don't know. I think that humility and that humble nature, it opens doors. It expresses vulnerability. I think it creates trust in other people because again, they might look at your Instagram or your company and think you got it figured out and you're sitting in a cabin on top of a hill. hitting your head against the wall. So yeah, I think it's super important to remember that.

Yes. And curiosity. It's this idea of sort of like, do you find yourself being curious? I remember in reading just the story about a celebrity CEO who resigned, very senior person, wasn't doing it anymore for money or anything like that, or notoriety, but he resigned. And part what he said was that I just found myself not listening. I have all these smart people around me, probably people smarter than me. If, again, we understand that What humility looks like, it's the opposite of wanting to be the smartest in the room. You really just want to be surrounded by people that you could ask questions and you respect their answers and stuff. But when he said he just stopped listening to these smart people, he knew it was time for him to hang it up, at least for the time being anyway. That was important when I heard that. Something else you said too is the idea that part of regeneration is really just getting back to yourself. We have everything that we need. We're equipped with everything it takes to create, to be, to do, to have all that. And to the extent that we're out of alignment with those things, we're not accomplishing or fulfilling, or our lives don't feel the way we want. I think a lot of that has to do with just not being ourselves more of the time than not. And getting back to yourself is a major goal to me. of what regeneration is about. And when I think of resilience, for us, resilience is not about grit. I don't, again, object to some of the philosophy around that. Books have been written and TED Talks have been given, and all that makes sense to some degree. I think it's old paradigm these days. I think the day that grit wins the day, I think that day is over. I'm a gritty person. I'm a persevering person and tenacious and all that. I don't quit easily, but I understand that you cannot win the day through blind perseverance. You cannot run a marathon that has no end and think that eventually you're going to succeed. Even what seems like success to a lot of people turns out to tragically be failure when their lives are cut short or when their relationships suck or any of the other things that life ultimately is really about turn out to be the things that they sacrificed in the blind pursuit of something else. So really appreciate your thoughts on that and It makes me think, we think about the soil, we think about the land ecosystems, et cetera. I often go back to history and the lessons of history and the Dust Bowl. The Dust Bowl was an interesting period of history because it's the 1930s. And for those that up on their history, cool. And, and if you've never heard about this, it's pretty interesting. I think it's the Great Depression in the US. I mean, a Great Depression, breadlines and more people outta work than were in work. I mean, it's a devastating time. And in the prairie states, mostly in Middle America, isn't raining. And I mean, it's not raining for like 8 years. But to that point, those prairie states were producing tremendous amounts of grain and other things that were saleable, and they were doing quite well monocropping and tilling soil. And a lot of people came from the East Coast out there for that opportunity. And then ultimately when it stopped raining, the soil and the plants, everything just sort of shriveled up, dried out, and blew away. They called it the Dust Bowl because there was these giant black clouds of dust that blew as far as like New York, just laying waste. And family farmers, they lost their farms. Many foreclosed upon, ended up moving to the Pacific Northwest in like the Grapes of Wrath situation, the book by Steinbeck, the movie that was made. And, you know, it was a devastating time. And yet out of that devastation, we learned something about the land. And now I think part of what you're doing in the world has to do with the lessons that were learned from that Devastating time. Tell me how close to accurate what I'm, I'm laying out is, and, and, and I'd love to know what the lessons that you've gleaned or have been taught from that period have been.

Yeah. I mean, it makes me think of humans coming in and having this kind of self-entitled perspective that we can control nature and that we are— nature and resource are there for us instead of we are of nature. And when I think about people creating wellness products and they slice it and dice it and isolate it and pull out these pieces, and then they reconstitute it into this formula, I think that's a parallel example. I think that monocropping, exhausting the soil with no rest, is a parallel to running yourself into the ground and trying to build a business without consciousness of how you're nested in other wholes, community, family, a market, or an ecosystem. So I think Again, there's so many parallels historically, to your point, about how we have integrated or interacted— is the word— interacted with nature. And it's come back to kind of bite us in the ass, or we are taught these really hard lessons, not to say that everyone learns from them. And kind of like the choices, we either build our artillery to combat nature, right? Through Monsanto spraying herbicides, pesticides, more equipment and monocropping. Or we take another route, which is to try to learn from these natural systems again. And whether it's Onda trying to harness the dynamic array of nutrients from this super plant, right? Hemp, and steward that to the people. That's our choice and that's our viewpoint. Other competitors might extract different compounds, like I said, but it's a belief system. It's a philosophy. It's a choice as humans how we want to live in harmony of nature, part of nature, or constantly trying to extract, overpower, and outsmart nature. But I think most of us see where that's headed or where that's gotten us. And I think during COVID and food supply shortages and a really hot summer, and water is a huge issue in the American West, I think it would be silly for folks not to at least open up a conversation to maybe we do need to think about some significant changes That will, I don't know, give the next generations a chance. I mean, and not to get too dark, but I think there's a lot of lessons here that we can glean from and start to try to change the direction of this ocean liner. It won't be easy, but I think it's worth trying.

Well, I think that's the part of the, you know, the lesson for me anyway, is that that was a dark time as well. And we did apply lessons, maybe not every lesson that was to be applied, and maybe we've broken rules again and forgotten history. And that's pretty human as an experience. But use the word extract, and I think that's really key too. The, the idea that in business, what we see in organizations that I get to be sort of a, both a teacher as well as a student of, in my interactions in those scenarios and in those situations, I see the extraction model is alive and well, that people who are themselves bought into that extract at all cost, Profit at all costs, try to, or they really infect others with that same philosophy. And they believe that that's a winning philosophy to extract everything that you can. And they'll extract everything they can from employees and from every system, every process in order to produce something that is what they think is more desirable. So I want to talk about Onda. I want to talk about your business, and I think it's a good leg into that or lead into that to just ask what the philosophy of the business is. What does your business actually value and what is the philosophy of Onda?

Yeah, well, it's funny, the word extraction is really relevant in our space because we don't extract nutrients, we infuse them. And so literally, and also as kind of another parallel or model in how we make our product, we don't extract from the plant, we marry. So there's a lot of concepts that kind of transcend what we're doing, but Onda is a regenerative wellness company and we focus on using regenerative and biodynamic hemp that comes from food farms. So the hemp is grown in rotation with food, herbs, vegetables. That soil is built through polycultures of, of animal impact, which is really paramount in any regenerative ecosystem. And we make products for the consumer that address anxiety, sleep, immunity, also the whole hemp products just to, to help relax. But really what we're focusing on is the Onda Oil super ingredient, which is relevant to this. It's regenerate and restore. This is a great ingredient that goes into really high-end skincare products like Flamingo Estate. Summer Solace, Gaara, Public Goods. And so at the core of Onda, this regenerative super ingredient, that's, this isn't a formal tagline, but it's just kind of takes the edge off and helps you be your best. Again, getting you back to center. Yes. Which is what cannabinoids do in the endocannabinoid system. They help regulate you back to center line. But more functionally, our mission statement is to heal people, empower our farmers, and support the regeneration of the earth. So we're looking again at the body, the farm, and the earth as ecosystems seeking balance and vitality. And this is plant support that is meant to support those, each of those kind of nested wholes.

So is it meant to bring us back to homeostasis or to equilibrium? Is that, those words make sense in that context? Yeah.

In a nutshell, and I can get a little bit too in the weeds, pun intended, but really you wanna, it's about getting us back to center line.

So back to yourself. Back to that, that true self that, as we were saying earlier, is capable, more than capable, more than confident, more than able enough. Yes.

It's home, right? It's home for our spirit. And that's us in a nutshell is it's helping us, it's plant support to help us be ourselves.

Right. I, I know I can tell you like darkness for me is not sleeping. If I don't sleep well at night, if I get too little sleep for too long, whether it's days or whatever it might be, I am a darker version of myself.

Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes I think I created this company for myself, but as it turns out, it, there's enough other folks out there that are benefiting from really what is ancient medicine because humans have co-evolved with cannabis for thousands of years. So if we think about this contextually, which I love because it gets me through the challenging times, we've been growing hemp, using hemp and cannabis Thousands of years. 100 years it was illegal and in prohibition because it was such a threat to the fiber medicine and paper industries that they created propaganda and subsequent legislation to bury it. And it's just popped

up. It was a threat to the cotton industry, among others, right? Yeah,

totally. And the Hearst family, they, it was a threat to their paper, their whole infrastructure, right? This extractive model was threatened by hemp back then. It's the same thing now with pharmaceuticals, and it's really, it's not an easy space to be in. We're shadow banned and deal with payment processor issues and all sorts of really kind of Big Brother dark stuff. But I believe deep down, and my senior high school thesis paper in '99 was about hemp, funny enough, I believe that it's our right as humans to be able to work with and have support from plants. And so our job, and this is kind of coming from my time in natural wine, is farm on the highest level and then don't screw it up on the way to the bottle. So minimal processing, embracing the whole orchestra of those plant nutrients, and then kind of stewarding those to the people. And that's, that's really at the core of our philosophy. So we don't use extracts, we don't use isolates, we don't slice and dice. We're trying to just get the highest quality flower, hemp flower, and then infuse it, press it, and then put it into the products.

Yeah, I'm a believer only because I'm a client, so to speak. I've used the sleep product, Own the Sleep, has helped me enormously. And it's, again, I do, because I speak to so many audiences of people that are just in the throes of this cycle and epidemic of exhaustion and of exhaustion, of anxiety, and even of burnout, frankly. The essence of recovery for me is sleep, but there's also food and there's how it is that we are setting ourselves up to be more resistant to disease and infections and things of that sort. So I've also used a product from Onda in that respect to kind of give myself immunity, a bit of a boost on the immunity side. And I've also used something I got, I actually have on my desk, which is the whole hemp product. And I love that as well because it, it sort of takes a little of the edge off and I can find myself not so much wound up, but just finding myself not breathing deeply enough. Where I don't know that I'm creating enough space. Space is creative. So we have to have space in order to create, solve challenging problems, or think critically. And I think people who are a Type A personality or people who are in that get it done, or they're really being valued and paid for their ability to get stuff done, you know, in that environment, there's not a lot of space. And I think that's why certain things that we could solve and ways that we could creatively transcend challenges are slower to evolve. Innovation is slower to evolve because we're actually perpetuating a paradigm that no longer really is optimal. I don't know that it was ever optimal, but it was the one that I know my generation grew up in and a lot of people have grown up in, which is again what you said earlier. You know, it's like that be on the rat wheel or the treadmill or whatever, you know, hedonic treadmill and just run faster than the next guy and adapt along the way. But that leads to a lot of illness and it leads to a lot of mistakes. And among those mistakes, we all know what it looks like because unhappiness at a core level, it's divorce or relationships that are untenable and a whole host of other things that just are the reflection of misery from the inside out. I'm not talking about money. Money thing could be fine, but there's plenty of money sabotage in the mix of that as well. So how do we handle that? How do we get back to ourselves? And, and that's why I wanted to have you be on the show because you are in the throes of an entrepreneurial pursuit. You are a business owner, an operator. You're dealing with all the stuff. And I think that the ethos of the company is really empowering to me personally. I wanted our audience to hear from its founder. So there've been many pivots along the way. Maybe as we wind things down here, I'd love to just hear from you what, what's been the most significant, meaningful, fulfilling, or advantageous pivot? In your business life, but it could be personal as well. I'm going to leave it to you to decide.

Well, I was sitting right here about maybe 15 months ago or 14 months ago, and I had my head between my hands and I just felt like it was all over the business. I felt like it was all over, period. And what I mean by that is that at that stage of my life and my professional life, I had not figured out how to create that space between the business and my spirit and my soul, my me, who, what, however you want to talk about it. I was in that mindset that I was wearing it. It was me. I was carrying it. I was grinding. I was going to run harder, faster, longer than anyone else. And some things happened that were kind of outside. They weren't really due to any mistakes we made as a small organization, but I had some real issues with some of the employees, had some family emergencies. Just, it was a perfect storm where we started getting water in the boat. And I realized that was the beginning of a really significant pivot that I ended up calling Operation Turtle. And I was trying to be playful once I, in those moments of brightness. And what I learned was if my business dies, I don't have to. And I know it sounds silly, but I didn't think like that before that chunk of time. I thought, well, I can't, I don't know if I, I just, I was so wrapped up in it. I felt that if my business was failing, then my whole life was failing and it was over in some way. And so I leaned on some really committed friends, family, advisors, and I got just enough of that darkness and emotion out of the way to make some very clear calculated, and my advisor calls Herculean moves. And that was to get rid of a winter rental somewhere I felt spread In my personal life and in my community. So I consolidated here in my home in Oregon. I went and got some of my equipment from a partner facility. I brought it here and I got my hands on making the oil. I just consolidated and I focused and I trimmed down my expenses and I got really heavy back into meditation and exercise. And that was when I had that kind of ego death. That's when I realized just because it's hard and it seems like it's over, it doesn't mean it is. I think we all know whether it's a relationship, marriage, business, We know when it's over. I think I want to believe, like, you really know. It's like, we've really tried to work out this marriage or whatever it is, or relationship. You're like, no, I think we've really exhausted. And in my heart, I really tried to listen to my, my intuition and my gut and my heart. I was like, it's not over. So what do I need to do to change myself to be the individual separate from Onda and to be the leader in Onda to try to carry us back on track. And these analogies are helping me get through life. And my advisor, Dan, and I, he was saying, listen, he's like, buckle down. He's like, it's okay. You don't have anyone pressuring you to hit certain numbers. Just keep it alive. And when the rain comes back to the desert, you're going to bloom. And I think it's happening now. And so, that pivot was consolidation, focus, space between myself, my soul, and the business so that I can look at the business when it's getting pummeled or, you know, trauma Or crossroads or speed bumps or any number of challenges, which we all face as entrepreneurs, I can look at it and think, oh damn, that's nasty. But I don't feel it in my body the same way. And I needed that separation so that I could be healthy and have the energy and clarity to not be reactionary or panic or do anything like that. I could look at it, but here's what I think we should do to address it, as opposed to, oh God, you know, this is just too much. Which is what it used to be like. So that pivot was humbling and clarifying and so empowering for us to regroup, let the pasture rest. Yes. Find out what's our real opportunity. Because it's been 7 years. We've launched world's first biodynamic, world's first verified regenerative hemp oil. We've done D2C, we've done retail, and I do this bulk oil. And now I have the privilege to say, this is it. And divine focus is our phrase.

Yes. Wow, man. I totally could feel that. And I so appreciate you going there and tying, closing a loop on the, that piece you said earlier about the pasture and the pasture needs to rest. You know, if I was gonna put a little phrase under my shirt that says resilience, that would be the one.

Let's do it.

The pasture needs to rest, man. Let the pasture rest.

But it's the same with you. If you don't sleep, any of us, I'm the same way. I need my sleep. I burn a lot of fat. I got a busy brain. I'm sure we both do. I need to rest. It's so apparent, and yet we don't let ourselves do it in other aspects of our life or business life culturally. So yeah, it's super important

indeed. Well, Steven, I couldn't have enjoyed this conversation anymore. Honestly, I, my own body, as much as I'm feeling the ding from just the kid cooties that came back from like from 2-year-old school, I just got so amped. In this conversation, my mind feels renewed in this moment and my body and my heart and my soul as well. I thank you for that. I know people are going to, I imagine, share this conversation with others that they know may need this information, may feel that we've trekked into a spot where just so real, to use the word that you started our conversation with. So I appreciate that. To our community, say once again, we so humbly appreciate And even continue to request your help in getting the message of this podcast out. So people that you know that would benefit, colleagues, friends, whoever it might be, please share it. When you rate it, when you go on whatever platform, whether it's Spotify or iTunes or wherever it is that you're consuming this and you rate it, you give it a 5-star rating or whatever rating that helps the algorithm. I don't understand the algorithm. I don't think any of us do, but we know that when you do that, more people get access to it. So we appreciate very much your help in doing it. And as always, if you've got comments, questions for Steven or myself, all you need to go is go to adamarkel.com/podcast, leave that comment or that question there, and I promise you it will not be a chatbot. It will be one of us that responds to it. But we appreciate you very much. Hope everybody, wherever you are at this moment, that you are taking the moment to regenerate, taking some time to let the pasture rest, as Steven said. And enjoying this moment for all it is worth. Again, Steven, thank you so much for your time today. Appreciate you, buddy.

Thank you so much for putting your energy into this and spreading this opportunity.

Cheers. Well, I thoroughly enjoyed my conversation with Steven today, and I'm sure that you did as well. I gotta tell you, I really did something that found myself doing something that violated my thoughts, my research, my teaching on the topic of resilience. Because I have been dealing with the common cold and, you know, they, they say there's no cure for the common cold. I tried everything. I continue to flush my system, drink plenty of water. I've got vitamins and minerals and adaptogens and everything known, I suppose, to, to me anyway, and plenty of sleep and all that good stuff. But the common cold is still just knocking the crap outta me. And yet I gritted my way through this conversation. I was enjoying it so much that it wasn't torturous. At all by any means for me to do that. But my voice was given out, as you could probably hear, or you will hear. And it was just one of those things where I found myself doing exactly the opposite of what I typically teach, which is to just not, to not have just taken a break, not have just rescheduled or created more recovery for myself, whatever it meant in the moment. It felt like, well, I'll just get through it. I'll just grind my way or grip my way through it. I'm tough and I'm resilient, of course. And so therefore I can violate the rules. We know that that's just bullshit, right? That's just nonsense. So the rules apply to all of us. That's why principle in terms of natural, the natural order of things, the rules of nature, if you will, apply to all of us. Doesn't matter what, how great a person you are, gravity applies to you equally as to somebody who maybe is a bit different. So I violated the rules and I'm just owning it. And that's what I wanted to say, as well as to take a couple of seconds here to say Man, what we were able to cover even in the midst of that was pretty astounding. I just, I love listening to Steven talk about humility, talk about his own journey as an entrepreneur and the places, the dark places that he's found himself in feeling insecure, feeling uncertain, living with that uncertainty as well as moving toward action even in the midst of these great unknowns that we're all living through. So I think what Steven shared with us, I think is truly inspiring. In any role that we have in business, whether we're working in some new area, maybe we've reinvented our career path, or maybe we're more a senior-level leader, or we're starting something on the side or have already begun that entrepreneurial journey. He shared with us some really important lessons on both the regenerative side of farming, in particular, his work as the CEO and founder of Onda, the work they're doing in the world and the value of hemp oil and what different about the way that they produce it, not extracting things, but rather infusing things and blending things together that create something exponentially better. And we use that as a parallel, a way to look at business in general and how in many models of business, the extraction model is the model, grab and take and suck as much out of the resources, human resources included, as you can in the interest of profit and putting profit in many ways before other things, including people. I loved how we talked about giving the pastures rest and the pastures need to rest. And so I'm going to do that right now. I'm going to get back to myself. I'm going to give myself rest. I wanted to close the loop on this and just share a few thoughts about our conversation as well as own the fact that I didn't follow my own advice. So I wish you a wonderful rest of your day. I hope that you will, if you are feeling tired, exhausted, as though you need a break, I'm gonna do the same thing right now that I'm gonna recommend that you do, which is to take that break. If there's somebody that you think would really benefit from hearing this conversation that we've had today, please share it with a friend. Please provide your kindest recommendation when it comes to the platform that you're consuming this podcast on, subscribing, and then also giving us a 5-star rating is super helpful. And of course, you wanna check out and see exactly how resilient you are right now. You can go to resiliencerank.com. .com, resiliencerank.com. And in 3 minutes or less even, you could find out what your resilience score is mentally, emotionally, physically, and even spiritually speaking. It's a snapshot. It's a, a wonderful opportunity to just check in with yourself. For now, I will say ciao, and thank you so much for putting up with my froggy voice today. And again, thank you for being a part of our community.

Thanks for listening. We hope you now have even more tools and greater insights to build resilience and become change-proof. Remember to leave a review on Apple Podcasts and you may be featured in an upcoming episode. For more resilience tips and strategies, including support for building change-proof teams, visit adammarkel.com. To get your own free resilience assessment, go to rankmyresilience.com.