Resilience In The Podium And Beyond With Rich Tiller

Yeah, you're kind of touching on the origin story just a little bit. I, I think it's a good place to actually start. Having written a book called Pivot, there's obviously a lot of pivots in your personal and your business life. How'd you get into this, into the events industry to begin with? Because I'm guessing that in high school you weren't thinking, hey, I'm gonna get into the event space, or even maybe you're a Purdue grad. Is that right? Yeah.

Yes. Uh-huh. Yeah. Well, you know, it's funny. I've always been called a salesman since I was little. I had, uh, 5 different newspaper routes and was always, you know, cutting grass and selling things. So, uh, I wanted a sales degree and I wanted to sell higher ticket items is kind of just what was in my head when I was a teenager. And the only sales degree sales marketing degree at Purdue University at the time when I started school in 1981 was in the Department of Agricultural Economics. And I thought, wow, that's kind of odd. So I met a couple of the advisors there. They quickly sold me. They were the most genuine, down-to-earth people. And so I joined that. But when I was in college, also in the summertime, I didn't want to get just any old job. So I took a job and met a guy who was in the cookware, china, and crystal industry. So I sold those items not door-to-door, but I, through telephone qualified leads and, uh, did that for 4 summers. And it was, I learned as much doing that as 4 years in school. So it was great experience. And then my counselor at Purdue was part of a training company and senior year he said, you should talk to these guys cuz they wanna start a speakers bureau. And their niche was training in agriculture. So I talked to them and started working for them halfway through my senior year. That got me in the business. That was in 1985 and been in the business ever since. So mainly it's been agribusiness, but we have a lot of clients that leave the agribusiness area, go into a different industry, call. So we have 2 divisions. One's in ag and then one's a non-ag called Professional Speakers Network. So that's kind of the lowdown.

I really hope you're enjoying this episode of the Change Proof Podcast. If you've not yet gone out and gotten your own copy of Change Proof, it's not too late. You can get your copy right now by going to changeproof.com and not only getting the book and all the bonuses there, but getting access to our proprietary resilience assessment tool. It'll just take you 3 minutes to do, and it's something that will really help you to utilize the book even more effectively to create practices and rituals and habits that will increase your mental Again, go to changeproof.com to get your copy today. Yeah. Then you said, like, that it's a lot of supporting behind the scenes. Maybe just for people that don't exactly know what the innards of that industry are. What is that? Give us a, if you can, more than just a survey of what it's like to be in that industry. Behind the scenes? Yeah.

Well, a lot of meeting planners, they're professional meeting planners, and then there are people that are thrown into that role. Someone tells them, hey, you need to get a speaker for this event, or you need to come up with ideas for an event. And so different ways, referrals, they find our website, whatever reason, we get in contact with them. So we find out what they're looking for, what their budget range is, who they've had in the past, and then we put together an electronic proposal with ideas for them to consider. Rarely are they the sole decision maker. And they may share it with their committee, whoever they share it with. And we help them save time in finding a proven speaker that can accomplish what they want to accomplish within their budget range. So that's kind of the, the gist of, of what a speakers bureau does. And, uh, our goal is, of course, is to work with that, that planner long-term versus just one time.

And from a resiliency standpoint, which is a topic I know we're gonna cover today, we're gonna talk about how resilient do you figure a speaker, somebody that's a budding speaker, somebody that's considering this, cuz, uh, we find that in our work, and not just in my, my own keynote speaking, but in our work through this organization called WorkWell, where we're in conversations with leaders at organizations about what their biggest challenges are, often we find that people are in the midst of, of not only solving those challenges, but thinking about their next step. So I, more than a handful of times, hear from a senior-level executive who's planning for retirement and planning for what they're gonna do in the pivot that comes after. Sure. And a lot of those people will say to me, I wanna do what you do. And I'm like, wait a second, buddy. Maybe you do, maybe you don't. You may need to know a little bit more about it, whatever. But, but it, it's interesting and it's funny. I just finished this book, Shoe Dog, which is the sort of the memoir, business memoir of Phil Knight, the founder of Nike. And not to give it away, but Nike wasn't called Nike for, I don't know, the first 14 or 15 years of the organization's existence. So I highly recommend people listening get that book. It's, it's a great read. At the end of the book, And Rich, I don't know if you've read it or heard this, that Phil said this, but of everything that he loves to do and wants to do and would wanna do more of, it's keynotes. It's speaking to audiences. That is the thing that gives him the greatest fulfillment. These—

That's great.

Which is phenomenal, right? So it is a great thing to aspire to do. And those executives that are thinking about pivoting into that potentially later on, great. But it's also not, it's not as easy perhaps as it looks. So could you share a Maybe a little bit of whether it's harrowing experience or it's framed in terms of resiliency. What's it like on that from your—

Yeah, yeah, it's very common, as you've just indicated, that individuals want to do that as they get close to retirement, or if they want to make career change, whatever the case might be. I think the really important thing is, uh, they have to focus on what's going to be beneficial to whoever that audience is. The error I think a lot of people make is they make it too much The individual or speaker makes it too much about them. And the audience unfortunately doesn't really care about them. They care about ideas that are going to help themselves personally. So if it can be reframed to focus on what's going to really help that audience member. So that's the first step is make sure you have the right perspective. And then what's that information that's going to be valuable to them and making sure that it's saleable because this person might want to talk on a— speak on a topic that has no demand whatsoever. So getting a speech coach, talking to different bureaus, looking and seeing who the most popular speakers are, what are their topics, how to be unique. I mean, if they get into leadership in general, I mean, there's a ton of competition. So look and then evaluate and look at the people, look at the speakers speaking in that area and what their credentials are and find out, you know, do, do your due diligence to find out who's doing it well, what their fees are. And then finally, you know, having the right kind of speech coach. Because the delivery is the most important thing. And having the right speech coach is going to be very important so people will be engaged and be entertained through the delivery. Because if it's— it's a specialized form of show business. So that's what the speaking business is, I think. So unless you're delivering it in an entertaining manner, it isn't going to sell. So those are kind of the first things that come to my mind.

And when you're looking for— you're evaluating a speaker, let's say, you know, somebody that you might think you could sell, represent, et cetera, is there one quality of— I mean, There's a lot of them and, and it's a blend of things. So I, I get that. But I'm also curious just personally if there's one thing that if every, every bell that rings in your head that goes, you know, like the way you might be evaluating if you were a, if you were a coach and you were looking at an athlete and you say, well, this is the one quality that's most important in an athlete, or in this case in a speaker. What's that quality for you, Rich?

Yeah, I think it's the likability factor. You know, it's that it factor that I don't think you can put it on. I think you either have it or you don't. So I think the likability factor, and we've gotta make the assumption that they've got great content and great material. If they have that or can develop that, the likability factor is, is everything. Cuz that leads right into the entertainment factor and how engaged the audience is gonna be for the, with the speaker.

Yeah. Yeah. For me, it, I mean, does charisma, is that a word that rings similar to that, that we're, we're talking about? Yeah. From my standpoint, engagement is everything. Content is vital. But the context is even more important, the container that gets set. Right. And, and that context or that container is created through engagement, in my opinion. When peop— when the audience is leaning in, you can always tell from the back of the room, cuz I like to attend other sessions when I'm in, brought in and I'm not the only keynote speaker. I love to sit in on my colleague, colleagues and see how they're, you know, how they're doing and what the room feels like and all that kind of thing. When people are on their phones in the back, especially in a big room, or they're getting up a lot or they're fidgeting a lot, or obviously if they're talking to one another, you know, And they're not in part of a process or, or something, you know, it says a lot about what's lacking in terms of that engagement in the room. So, right. Yeah. The content's important. It's gotta be unique, as you said, and everything else. But, but I think what, what you've just said is, is I feel the same way. Engagement or charisma or that likability, that sort of it, maybe it's called the it factor in some other context, but

yeah,

I think it's, that's super important.

Sorry to interrupt, but I have to note that when we worked together in January, it was so nice to see your room was not only full, But a lot of people in the back of the room and out the back door. I mean, I, I couldn't even get in. I was in the back of the room. And to your point, I mean, people were so engaged with you and anybody watching this that knows you, they've probably seen you in action and they know that you're like that. But yeah, you've got that and you've got the energy and makes me think of one other speaker that we've worked with many times over the years. And I don't know if you've seen him personally, but if you've ever seen Charlie Plumb, who was a prisoner of war in Hanoi Hilton with John McCain and others for 5 and a half years, and he makes his points. And I think it's so brilliant because after he makes his point and the colorful stories that go along with it, he flips the mirror, as I put it, back on the audience.

Yes.

And, you know, so how are you doing with this communication with your team? You know, as he talks about being isolated, not able to communicate with his team, and how they used a wire, you know, through the holes in the wall to make noises. And so I think the ability to flip that mirror, so to speak, back on the audience member so they can really internalize what you're saying is the other part of that charisma and connecting with the audience. So anyway, just a side note.

I think that's probably the— again, you're thinking about all the different moving parts of what, what this is. It's, it's hard to sort of pin down just one or two. But if you ask, if you pin me down and said, hey, what's the one thing that a, a speaker could do differently? Because I've seen a lot of speakers that to me just a bit flat at times, you know, and, and lack of engagement, etc. That one thing would be what you just said, which is to ask a question. So people that are listening to this now that maybe have a talk they're giving sometime soon, whether it's a meeting, you know, that's in the office, it's a presentation, or it's something different than that, or maybe some folks are even thinking about a TED or whatever it might be. And even in a TED context, I think the most powerful talks are the ones where, as you said, you flip the script, you make it about them so that even if somehow or another it wasn't already clear that your purpose in being there is not about you, that when you ask a question, it becomes about the audience. Sure. And that's just, I think that's the simplest thing you can do is just ask a question and then allow for— this is an interesting aside to this, I suppose— actually allow for an answer. Because how often have you seen a speaker that will ask a question almost rhetorically and not wait for the answer and just move on from there as though that question really wasn't asked at all? So to give the audience that 20 seconds, 30 seconds, even that length of time to just chat with each other or think about it, you know, it's a very powerful thing. Look, we've all We've all come through the pandemic. At this point, we're on, to some degree, on the other side of it, and yet there's a lot of hangover from it. A lot of the work that I do in the world has to do with what the ripple effect and really what even the damage that's been done as a result, the kind of lingering effects in the form of exhaustion and burnout and anxiety and, and a number of those kinds of things. But taking us back to that moment at the beginning when it, it all kind of came down and things just shut down. I mean, you've been in business now, I'm not gonna do it. But if you wanna say how long has your speaking business— and it's 2. Bureau. Because you, you're operating 2 bureaus. Isn't that right, Rich?

We are. A, a vast majority of our business is on the ag side, the ag industry, which is the largest industry in the country. But, yeah, I've been doing this 38 years. 38 years. Yep.

So in terms of the disruption and the need to create and or to be resilient in the face of really unexpected change, how does the pandemic rank in terms of other disruptions that your businesses might have faced? And how did you approach that? What was— and I'm, I'm asking you to, to sort of, if you can, be a little open kimono here about, you know, what was it like in those first couple of weeks, if you can even recall anymore? Like, right? It's been like it's a time warp as to what—

It is a time warp.

Yeah.

Hard to forget. Yeah. I don't think I'll ever forget really. Yeah. Middle of March 2020, and all of a sudden the phone started ringing and postpones But everybody thought, ah, a couple months, we'll be back. So we had 175 postponements. And so we didn't know what we were going to do. Thank goodness we had accumulated retained earnings and had a very substantial rainy day fund. And so, yeah, it's just, we had an assistant named Kelly that we had worked with for years and years and years. And so she started working from home. And so we just did a lot of postponements and we'll get back to this when we can. So we did a bunch of virtuals at virtual And the virtuals were very low fees, sometimes 10% of a speaker fee before they came up and still doing a few virtuals today, but did some virtuals and had to tap into the rainy day fund a little bit, but still worked out fine. So I think watching overhead was very important. And so we weathered that very well. So we've been very blessed to get through that. But I think it puts things in perspective. I believe it's very dangerous if you take the victim mentality. So never wanted to play the victim card and figure out, okay, what can we do? What can we learn from this? And just Made our way through it over time. So grateful that it's behind us, of course, but learned and gained wisdom through the process.

Not an easy question I'm going to put to you just to give you a pause to not so much brace yourself, but is there one, you know, learning that above everything else, you know, comes through as a result of what it was like for you in a leadership role and also through your business that you say, hey, we really learned this and this is the thing we're going to continue to apply in non-pandemic circumstances?

Yeah, I think helping people deal with the psychological side of it. I think it helped me to offer more grace as we ask for grace. We all make mistakes, but to be more flexible given my age, I grew up and started in business when it was, you know, 9 to 5, you know, and, and you had to be there 9 to 5. Well, really it's more of, is the work getting done? It doesn't matter when it's getting done. Is it getting done? And if somebody wants to do it from 9:00 PM till midnight and then just be available to take care of things during business hours, that's great. But, you know, I think that's a mindset shift. And so we had to be flexible with Kelly, who was working remotely on our team. It was more important that the work got done. So I think grace and flexibility, I think we learned the most through that.

I wrote the word flexibility. You hadn't said that until just now. So it's, you know, we're really dialed in here. Yeah. And you know what? It's— somebody once said to me that occasionally you have to slow down in order to speed up. And I, I think there's the forced slowing down has either in, I think in a large majority of cases created an expanded capacity for businesses. And what's interesting now is, as I study this stuff, and I know you do as well, part of our work is in, on the research side, is to see how organizations are, some organizations are trying to sort of pick up where they left off before the pandemic. Right. It's almost like enough dust has settled and they think, well, now it's time to just get back to the way we used to do it.

Yeah.

Whether it's to demand that people be in the office more than not, or maybe entirely so, et cetera. And obviously every case is different, every business is different and all that kind of thing. But it is kind of an interesting thing that some of what was that perhaps enabled organizations to thrive even in the midst of that, that they are, that some of those lessons perhaps are being left by by the roadside, or at least some folks are considering, you know, trying to, trying to go back and do it that according to a paradigm that, as you say, you grew up with, that I grew up with, you know, this 9 to 5, first in, last to leave, a lot of real kind of hardcore grit grind, workaholic type tendencies. And I'm not certain that that paradigm is going to serve in the future the way it served perhaps in the past.

Yeah, I've got a good friend with a major, major airline. Obviously there aren't many airlines left, but don't want to name the airline, but they've publicly said people are back in the office, right? But I know that that isn't the case. It's just not being enforced with a lot of companies. You know, they'll verbally say that, but then they know that their people are still getting things done. You know, I think if people have clear expectations, you know what your role is and you know what's expected of you, it shouldn't matter if you're in the office, if you can get the job done. Now, if you can't, that's a totally different situation. But I think that, you know, I hope it evolves, continues to evolve where people can have the flexibility and have more life balance and get the work done. And it doesn't matter if they're in the office 5 days a week. 3 days may be enough. 2 days may be— every situation's different. So, yeah. Hopefully, that'll keep evolving that way.

Resilience. It's the unsung hero in every success story that you will ever hear about. And in times of massive change and disruption, the kind of rapid change that we're all experiencing as leaders, as business owners, as entrepreneurs, We have to learn how to not only increase our own resilience, but that of our teams. So right now we have a powerful opportunity for you to find out just how resilient you are. Some years ago, my team and I created the resilience assessment that more than 5,000 business leaders across the globe have taken. And all you have to do to get your own free resilience leader assessment is go to resiliencerank.com. It takes less than 3 minutes. And it's our gift to you for being the leader that you already are. Other free resources and tools will accompany your score instantly. So go to resiliencerank.com and find out just how resilient you are. I think the work-life harmony component is a, is a bigger deal than a lot of senior people perhaps may have thought, you know, beforehand. And, and maybe it's gonna be that folks that are listening to this are gonna come back to their groups and say, hey, maybe, maybe grace and flexibility are kind of elements, values that we could add to the, that we wanna be known for around here because culture is so meaningful right now. And it, I'm curious, get your thoughts on this too. I think a lot of people when asked in our work will say, so how did you get through the pandemic? Almost like the question I asked you. And they'll say, well, our, our culture was strong and our culture helped to get us out of, you know, through that situation. And I'll say, well, how's it going now? And it's a bit of a setup. You know, I was a lawyer for a couple of dozen years, so I, I still lean into that energy sometimes to the chagrin of others. But I, I'll say, so how is that going? And they'll say, well, it's different now. Expand. Tell me more about that. And they say, well, the culture that we had going into the pandemic that got us through the pandemic isn't actually the culture we feel exists now on the other side of this thing, which is curious. I don't know in your work whether you get a sense of that or how often it is that you're finding out through that discovery process. I know that when we've worked with you, and I say we because it's not me, a member of this team, but I'm the wind-up guy that they send out. When we've worked with you and, and with your team, often we do these discovery sessions to find out what are the real challenges that precipitate the desire to have, not just have the event perhaps, but to have our content be featured in the event as something that would be valuable to those, you know, to that audience. And so occasionally, more than occasionally, we get to really learn what they're challenged by. So have you been seeing that people are kind of finding this conversation on where their culture is, What it's like to be a part of that organization? Is that coming up in your discussions as well?

You know, a lot of the— our buyers are, you know, either professional planners or like I mentioned before, people that are just given that task. So many more of them are working from home than ever before. And so it's so common where they'll say, I'm only in the office once a week or a couple times a month. So yeah, that's been a huge change from what we've seen. But also a lot of the things that we do with our small business, because bureaus are typically a small business, and with meeting planners is they can really do collaborating on Zoom if they need to get together with somebody or on the phone. And so I think it has changed the meetings business quite a bit, but that's just from my perspective. So I really can't take it deeper than that.

You know what, let's maybe follow that lead. So what is the State of the Union, if you could, like, uh, you know, if you were given that address to make, because for a number of years you were a past president of the International Association of Speakers Bureaus. So if you were given a State of the Union to the industry as a whole, how's the industry doing as compared to before the pandemic? Or—

we're back. I mean, 2019 was a record year for us, and I think for the industry, and we're back to that now. It's back full steam ahead. I think what we've seen as well is that speaker fees continue to inch up. And when I first got in this business, I remember booking Terry Bradshaw for about $6,500 was his fee. And now I don't want to publicly say what his fee is, but it's a heck of a lot more than that now. But it's amazing to see how the speaker fees have gone up. I've also, having been in this business that long, have seen economic crisis and problems with the economy, and it happens about every 10 years. So that's how life goes. And so I think it's important that we are ready because as one speaker friend of mine used to say, you know, the garbage truck of life, Is either on its way, or it just left you, or it's you know dumping on you now. So you have to be to your niche area yourself. You got to be resilient and be ready because life is a roller coaster. So but the industry is good right now, but don't count on it staying that way all the time because it won't.

So the rainy day fund, the contingency fund is could be termed as well. This is important in terms of your business. Are there other things that you do to prepare? We like to say you create your preparing for resilience before you need it. I think that is. And that's often to me the key that you're not, as you say, just taking it for granted that things will continue on any straight line. There's no straight lines in the universe anyway. It's so dynamic, changes accelerating at a pace that we've never seen and is only continuing. That velocity is only increasing. So let's assume that the cycles are going to repeat, meaning things go up, things go down, things go sideways, all that good stuff. And I'm not asking you to prognosticate either. What do you do other than, is there something else that you develop? from a resilience standpoint other than a rainy day or contingency fund to weather, you know, whatever economic stuff?

That's a good question. Yes, I mean, definitely. In 2015, '14 or '15, I joined and became part of a men's group at our church. And that community with that men's group has extended and still going on today. And that has been a very important thing because most guys isolate. Which is not healthy for men. And so it's very smart to have a community of people. We have about 12 guys in this group, and three at least two or three every week attend via Zoom. And we did that. We started the Zoom during COVID and met outside on patios and stuff like that. And it was just a great social gathering that was just catching up and just being encouraging to people going through all kinds of things that everybody's going through that nobody talks about. So that community has been very, very helpful. In fact, I've. We had— if you want, Adam, I'll bring you in. We, uh, we've interviewed Charlie. We had Charlie Plumb with our men's group one time, and I interviewed him via Zoom for, for the guys on site. And it's an amazing group of guys that are business owners, that are— one's a nurse, corporate executives. Really, really interesting group of people with different experiences. So we just kind of— it's, it's a great way for guys just to interact and, and support each other. The other thing is—

That's a big yes. Let me just squeeze that in there. I'd love that.

Great. Good.

And I'll be able to show up for that. Yeah. Yeah.

We'll do that because again, with no exceptions, and if people are honest, most people are going through some very big things in their life. Yes. And if they don't have a community or have people they can trust that they can, can talk with to whatever extent they're comfortable talking is so beneficial. And I think COVID really, really helped bring that point home. The other thing is exercise. I exercise 6 days a week and it's been incredibly therapeutic and good for mental health and wellness and all those kind of things. So those are the 2 key things that I've used to try to stay, try to keep my mind in one piece and not going crazy. Not living on the coast where you could see the ocean, but in the Midwest it gets pretty gray for a few months of the winter. And so, uh, so you got to do whatever you can to keep your sanity.

Yeah. Well, I've seen you face to face and I know how fit you are. And more than that, your energy is a— it's a fit energy, which to me is attitude. It's just perspective. It's being able to see above the clouds kind of thing. But, um, I wanna ask you a related question, then we're gonna wrap things up here. But when it comes to the contingencies of life, the unexpected twists and turns, I think it's the case that sometimes people will have an event, put on an event, and they put it together and they find their speakers and all that kind of thing. And then they find out that there's a lot of, a lot of things that can go sideways. Everything from getting on a plane and then the plane doesn't make it to its destination on time. And I'd love to get a sense of why work with a speaker bureau? Is, are there any myths here that we could just take a minute to debunk? And I say that only because as a public speaker, speaker. And having worked with you, but also having worked with other bureaus, you're more than just a valuable partner in our work. And so I value the relationship, but I also know it's incredibly valuable to the, to the folks on the other side that are putting these events on. So maybe, yeah, speak to a little bit of that.

Sure, sure. We'll say the benefit to the speaker first, because the more agents or speakers bureaus that you work with, or any of your viewers if they're going to become a speaker, it's kind of like having a free sales rep that doesn't— there's no overhead involved other than when they actually find you business. Now are a few agencies that may charge retainers, but find out all about that up front. We don't charge retainers to any of the people we work with. We only get paid when we book the speaker. So that's a benefit to the speaker. To the meeting planner, I look at it this way: we help them save a lot of time because when we find out what they're looking for, we can— in their budget range, who they've had in the past— we can come back with a refined list of, hey, here are 5 people you really need to check out, or 3 people, whatever they And so we save them time with options, and then we're an insurance policy. I can't tell you we've done 9,300 events since 1985, and I've had a situation where one speaker passed away suddenly with 18 dates that we had on books. We had one speaker that got sick on the plane and was kicked off a plane. He calls me reclining, reclined in his. His seat in his car in the parking lot. Rich, I can't do the date tomorrow. And he was going to do a date in Iowa. And I said, okay. So I never call a client with bad news unless I have an option. So we have speakers all over the country. I called the guy who lived in Northern Iowa and I found out if he was available to go speak the next morning. And I had other options as well. He said yes. I called the meeting planner. This speaker that you booked cannot make it. They're sick, violently ill, kicked off the But here is an option. Let me send you the information. If you want him, let me know. We can get him for you, and he'll be there the next day. And he was even more expensive, and it wasn't any extra cost to the client. And that they said, great, he'll do a great job. The meeting planner called the next day and said, the guy got a standing ovation. I don't know how the other speaker could have done a better job. We had the situation happen just three weeks ago where a speaker got COVID and called me 24 hours in advance and said, I can't travel. They won't let me travel. Travel. And we found another speaker on a complementary topic in Miami who was available 4 hours later to get on a plane, fly to Phoenix, did the date, huge success. So because of the different people that we know, we can help satisfy the need for filling that slot with a great speaker. So that's the number one thing— we've got their back. Now, is it common that that happens? No, it's not common. But if it does, you know, it's important to you if you're the So yeah, that's— I think that's what we bring is saving them time and we've got their back.

I mean, what does it say on my t-shirt today, Rich?

Got your back.

Perfect. For those of you that are watching this on YouTube, that was obvious, but everybody else, right? It's one of those things that I think you can't underestimate, or I guess you can underestimate, you can't overestimate the value of having that backup plan and, and knowing that you have a network that honestly, in a pinch, and the pinch happens more than you, than you would care to believe. I gotta tell you, we've changed our way of doing business as a result of doing business with you all because we never used to book. I would always go in a day, at least a day ahead of time to any of our engagements, et cetera. But now we actually book 2 plane tickets. And so for colleagues of mine or meeting planners and, you know, the like that may be listening to this right now, it's a great requirement to add that because it's no additional cost. It's a little additional logistics and whatnot, but we'll book the 2 flights and then, and one of 'em obviously, or both of them be refundable. And we'll pick the one that's going to go out. And sometimes you get enough notice ahead of time that it's not even sort of a nail-biting thing at the end. At the last minute, we know, you know, there's going to be a delay on this flight and perhaps it might not go out. We'll just literally cancel that one and go with the, go with the backup. And that's really only the result of you guys having, having introduced us to that system, Rich. So,

well, I'm glad you're doing that because, yeah, if you're going through Dallas and they're going to have an ice storm and Denver looks good, I mean, when would that happen? But it happens.

And so all the time. Yeah.

And you can't book 2 Flights on the same airline. Airlines won't let you do it. It's got to be a separate airline. So all these kind of things and tricks that yeah, having the backups whenever you know we always have at least one backup because you just never know what's going to happen. And yeah, and see what you got to be there.

All right. So really roll up sleeves. This kind of last question here. It's but in two parts though, Rich. I want to tap you for advice that you would give to again that speaker, maybe even a seasoned speaker that's been trying to break through with bureaus and maybe hasn't had as much luck, or somebody that's just getting into it. What's one piece of advice? a speaker in approaching or in developing relationship with a speaker bureau? And then also, what's one piece of advice for somebody that puts on meetings or is involved, like you say, on a committee or has got an event that's coming up? And maybe there's a piece of advice for them in terms of choosing a bureau or working with a bureau. Maybe they haven't done that in the past, or maybe they didn't have a great experience. Who knows, right? So yeah, what— let's start with the speaker, if you could.

Yeah. So I would say that if there's a speaker that wants to work with a bureau, if you know some of the speakers that bureaus are working with and they're a friend of yours, ask for that introduction. You can always send an email into the bureau. Don't know if you're going to get a response from some bureaus. I mean, I don't know how they, they process that. When I get a cold email, I quickly look at what are their topics and I'll look at their video links or video clips. And then if it looks like something that we have a need or think we can do some business with them, then I'll, I'll respond. But that would be my comment there. The other thing is, you know, they can— as long as any speaker has some type of coach they're working with, Whether it's delivery or someone helping them write material or refine material. Always school's never out for the pro, right? You've got to always try to keep refining and getting better. For the meeting planners, they usually they're already talking to other meeting planners to find out who they work with, but find a trusted source. There are a few bad apples in any industry, and so if you've had a bad experience with a bureau, talk to your peers and find out who they've worked with that they can trust. And so I think that's the bottom line is who they feel comfortable with, and that gives them good people they can trust. Because in any marketing, you know, somebody can, can oversell their ability. And again,

that never happens, Rich. What are you talking about? I don't think that ever happens.

The skeptic or the cynic. Yeah, the skeptic or cynic kind of comes out of me once in a while. But, but yeah, I mean, most bureaus are going to recommend people they, they're very comfortable with because they want to earn that client's business long-term. That's the bottom line. So they don't want to do anything to jeopardize that. So those are the 2 things I would recommend.

I love it. Rich, I so appreciate the work that you do in the world. I appreciate the relationship and that you took some time outta your day to hop on the show and for us to chat about these things. I don't know where the time goes. When you said 9,300 events, it literally, like, just to hear that out loud was, that's a milestone. I mean, it's gonna be, you know what? It's gonna be cool. I don't know if you've got it planned or not, but it won't be long before you're at 10,000 because I know how many, like, I think when I, when we were together in January, you you had like 200 engagements or something like 200 or 300 engagements on the books for the first quarter. It was something like that. So 10,000 is literally just around the corner for you guys. Are you planning a celebration? Am I inspiring you to create something?

We haven't. Yeah, we haven't yet. We haven't yet. But we had, yeah, we had 110 events in January, February, just to clarify that number. But in a year we'll do 350, 375, something like that. We don't have that. We will, we'll figure out what to do and do that. It is an accomplishment, but this business never gets old. Love the ability, like with your topic with resilience, people need that more than ever, whether they admit it or not. And so it's really— and we're in the business of helping people get better because, you know, either personally or professionally. So it's a lot of fun. But thanks to you also for the invite and for all you do to help people, because I know you save a lot of lives through the message that you deliver. And it's really appreciated.

Rich, thank you for saying that. I think it's funny to see how the loops we open, these loops in our lives, sometimes really young, or let's say early on in life. And then you get to see how those loops are actually closed and create that circle at some point. Because for me, it was starting out as a lifeguard back in the day and the kind of work in that arena and then transitioning into law and other things. But today, I feel more like— I feel more aligned with that work on the lifeguard stand in what I do today than I ever have before. And you said that early on in your life, it was this self-help that really got inside of you. And as you said, the work that you do now in the world, have done in the world for a while, really has that capacity to meet people where they are and help them in, in a way that perhaps other things just don't quite make it in. But that's just so beautiful. I love the synergy of what, you know, how we tied up this conversation as well, Rich. So thank you so much.

You're welcome. Thanks again for having me and enjoyed the conversation. And thanks for all you do with the audiences and look forward to working with you again soon.

For our community, you know the drill. If you want to be able to consume more, find out more about, in fact, what Rich does and his bureaus and connect to Even there with him, with Rich and his team. Just go to the show notes. All those links are in there. If you know somebody that would benefit from listening to this conversation, would be willing to share it, that helps the algorithm. I don't know exactly how that algorithm works. I just know that when you like it, when you share it, other people receive it as well, and that's a benefit to us. So I so thank you for doing that. There'll be a little bit of a recap in just a moment here from me where I'll give you some additional assets and resources for yourselves as But for now anyway, I want to say ciao. Thank you so much. And Rich, once again, what a pleasure, my friend.

Yeah. Thanks, Adam. Good to see you. Thanks.

Well, as promised, I think that conversation was just wonderful. I mean, I know I so enjoyed it. I hope you enjoyed it. We'd always love to get your feedback and welcome it. So if there's comment questions for myself or Rich, please feel free to go to adamarkel.com/podcast and leave that question or comment there. I just love the fact that I got to speak with and share this conversation with all of view, somebody that's been in the industry as long as he has been— he's such a young guy, by the way. I mean, he's been doing this since 1985. He runs 2 divisions of a very, very influential speaker bureau and has booked, as I said in the intro, 9,300 events. I think he kind of updated us on that today as well. There's no stopping the train. It is full-on moving down the track. But Rich is a remarkable leader. He, I think, leads with a certain ease and grace. I know that a lot of leaders sometimes, especially younger leaders, think that they have to be, they have to be hard, they have cold. They have to be— they can't show emotion or they can't be soft in any way. And I think what I get really valuable experience from being around Rich, having worked alongside him, having been booked by his speaker bureau many times, is the way he leads with this calm and this equanimity, this grace actually, which is very— it's very calming to the people around him. I know that I am confident in his presence because he is He is— his energy isn't triggering me to feel anxious or to feel uncertain or any of those things. It's, you know, these— work is tough enough. Business is a challenge on any good day. But to be working with people that have that quiet confidence, that equanimity, that in other contexts, even the, you know, it's almost like that Superman mild-manneredness, which is just, again, pleasure to be around. And it's something of a great example for all of us in how we lead others and even how we lead ourselves. So again, I so enjoyed my conversation with Rich. I hope you did as well. Learned a lot about the state of the union when it comes to what's going on in the speaking industry today. And that industry is a reflection of so many other industries, so many other corporate industries, as well as even what's going on in our world around. So again, thank you so much for being a part of the community. Thank you for sharing this episode with anybody that you think would really benefit or learn something from it. And we appreciate that, as well as the fact that, as always, we thank you for providing a rating, a 5-star rating if that makes sense for you, or, or whatever rating does sense. That feedback is like oxygen for us. It's super valuable, and we appreciate you taking the time to provide it. So for now anyway, I'll just say ciao for now, and thank you again.

Thanks for listening. We hope you now have even more tools and greater insights to build resilience and become change-proof. Remember to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, and you may be featured in an upcoming episode. For more resilient For more resilience tips and strategies, including support for building change-proof teams, visit adammarkel.com. To get your own free resilience assessment, go to rankmyresilience.com.