Balancing Ambition and Contentment with Adam Spector

Welcome to the Go Beyond Podcast. I'm your host, Charles Scott. On this podcast, I interview exceptional leaders navigating ambition, resilience, and growth. The goal is to help you go beyond your perceived limits. As always, this show is sponsored by The 90% Rule, helping leaders escape the grind of the ambitious person's trap and instead spend over 90% of your finite time and energy on things you like, you're good at and you find meaningful. What's the ambitious person's trap, you ask? That's when you trash your physical health and emotional health in pursuit of your professional goals. The 90% Rule is the antidote. Go to www.executivementorcharlescott.com for more. All right. On today's show, our guest is Adam Spector, CEO and founder of Chor, a fractional human resources and finance partner that has eliminated admin for more than 500 startups. Adam is also an active angel investor with over 200 startup investments and host of the Entrepreneurial Excellence Podcast. Adam, welcome to the show.

Charles, it's an absolute pleasure.

All right, I'm going to ask you about Chor in a minute, but before I do, I always love to start with this question. If you could go back in time and talk with your 18-year-old self, what advice would you give?

Be more ambitious. Be less— be less fearful. And to be clear, I don't think I was a fearful person, but I didn't quite realize how much opportunity I could have by being more ambitious and trying harder and going bigger. Right. What's the worst that would have happened to me? I would have ended back in my old bedroom that I grew up in. And to be clear, this is a privileged place. That's speaking from a layer of privilege, to be clear. But that's the case for almost every American. What's the worst that's going to happen to you? You will end up back in your parents' house. Everyone can be more ambitious when they're young.

Wow, I love it. And by the way, you know, you can't go back in time to your 18-year-old self. But what I will say is whenever I listen to the answers to this question, what someone listening to this podcast can do is follow that advice right now, regardless of ages. And so it's— I'm sure right now you could also be more ambitious. I could be more ambitious. And that's, that's an interesting line of thought.

Well, and also add, like, I'm sure plenty of your people, you know, and plenty of my friends Like, you have a lot of success, and for a lot of them, they, they don't continue to be ambitious, weirdly. Um, and I think it should be the opposite. Once you have— once you're essentially post-economic, right, you're, you're financially free, why aren't you more ambitious with your time and energy, right? Just because you— sure, if you really want to enjoy just sitting on, like, your yacht or whatever, more power to you. It's not for me. But if you're someone who's made all that money and worked really hard to get there, it's probably not really for you. So be more ambitious. Like, you have nothing to lose.

Yeah. Wow. That's very interesting. All right. So I want to— let's hear about your ambitions right now. So tell me about Chore. So how did it start and what is your vision?

Yeah. So it actually started with a different company. We spun out of that company. But the thesis originally was we want to automate back office work. What that really means is you've worked, I'm sure, Charles, with lots and lots of founders. But every single founder in the world, I don't care if it's a high-tech company or your SMB down the street from you, like restaurant. Um, a founder starts because they, they think they're world-class at something, right? They have some over— they do have ambition, right? They think they're better than their colleagues at X, pie making, whatever you wanna call it, right? Um, and everyone agrees with them. Like, yeah, you make the best pies in the world. You are really good at this job. And then suddenly you, you open your own shop. You now have to hire people. You have to deal with the city regulations. You're managing, recruiting, dealing with vendors, you name it. All these things you didn't have to worry about before. It turns out you're really bad at all those things. Um, understandably, that's not— you're great at making pies. You're not good at managing all the admin day to day. Um, and so what, what ends up happening? Pretty simple. It ends up failing cuz you're not having fun anymore. You're not good at it. You're not having fun. You're not enjoying it. The quality of your pies goes down, customers flee, your business goes, goes under. Um, that is a classic trap. It's happened over generations. Truth, I mean, since the modern rise of modern corporation basically, right? So 400+ years, but Every business, right? There's a great book called The E-Myth Revisited. I don't know if you've read it. You should. Um, great book, probably 20 million copies sold. E-Myth Revisited. It's in that entire thesis. It essentially says find a way to hand off the admin to people who are great. So you're not working in the business. You can work on the business and be on the bigger side of it. That's what all of us should be doing. And that's what Chore exists to do. We exist so you can say, I don't want to pay any attention to human resources. I don't, I need to know my team's getting paid. Mm-hmm. Right. So for you, you worked at Intel. Um, I'm guessing when you were working at Intel, you weren't wondering how the payroll system was working and whether your paycheck was gonna show up. And then you're, you're right. And that's great. That means you could focus on doing your job at Intel, not worrying about, am I gonna get paid today? You just knew it was gonna show up on time in your bank account. Mm-hmm. Um, I don't know why people think founders who have a superpower should be spending their time worrying about, is the paycheck gonna show up? That is a, that is a recipe for failure. And that's, so that's what Tore does. That is our ambition, is to solve this problem for the world's entrepreneurs so more entrepreneurs can be successful, because a world with more successful businesses is a better world in my mind.

This is a good segue to the next question I want to ask you. And before I do, you threw an acronym there early in your answer where you said the SMBs, you know, down the street. That stands for small and medium business.

Yes, correct.

For those of you who don't know that acronym, most probably do, but I always, I always try to explain.

Always helpful. Yes. Thank you for that.

No. And so, but one thing you're emphasizing, and I want to ask you to expand on, is, and I do this in the work with entrepreneurs and CEOs, we talk a lot about what deserves their time and energy, right? These finite resources. And one of the things I've, in researching you, that you said, the only thing we really control is our time. And great founders are ruthless about where and how they spend it. So my question to you for those ruthless founders who are listening to this podcast, how does a founder determine what genuinely requires their attention versus what they should delegate or automate or simply stop doing?

I mean, the first thing you decide is like, what do I really get joy from? What brings me pleasure on a regular basis? Think through what that looks like, number one. Number two, what are you really good at? I mean, if you're an entrepreneur, I hope you have some idea of what your actual skill sets are. and where you are actually good at things. Everything else should be handed off. Um, and, and I hate the excuse people say, well, I can't afford it, et cetera, et cetera. The simple fact is you can afford it because what you're trying to build as a business is something that can function and grow over time. Mm-hmm. What that means is you should be spending time on, once again, the things you're best at, right? Mm-hmm. So going back to that pie maker example, well, if you're the best at baking great pies, spend all the time on that and hire someone else who can go source the ingredients, who can go manage your payroll, can manage your finances, and that's it. So what do you enjoy? So an example here, I'm on this podcast. I can't delegate being on podcasts to other people. One, you might not want those other guests, number one, on your show. But two, I enjoy doing this. I think it's helpful to the world. I hope I have some interesting tiny bit of wisdom to share.

Sure.

And this is important to the company as well. It gets my company's name out there. I can't delegate that, but other things I can. Right? And so in the end, you just think, what do I enjoy the most? What can't I give away? And the truth is almost everything you can give away. There are very teeny tiny things you can't. Um, another thing I've read is, is somebody like, I think Oprah Winfrey works like an hour a day.

Right.

Right. How does she work an hour a day? She works an hour a day cuz she gives away all the other things. The one hour is when people really need Oprah's attention and focus, or she's to be on a show or something and showing her face. Right. That's it. Yeah. Why, why do founders think they should be any different than that and they have to do, have it all, all the burden on their shoulders?

Yeah, that's a lovely vision. It reminds me of the 90% rule, the sponsor of this podcast, because you notice I said 90, can you allocate your finite time and energy so 90% is allocated to what you like and what you're good at? Those were the 2 things you were highlighting. And then I added it's meaningful to you as well. Um, so, but I, you're, you're preaching to the choir is what I would say.

Perfect.

So let's dig into some of your experience. I mean, you really have a remarkable background. So you've had, after 4 startups, more than 200 investments, and then over 100 conversations on your own podcast, which I recommend. It's very interesting to hear your enthusiasm for entrepreneurship and your deep knowledge. You've said that one common ingredient of successful founders is obsession. So how do you distinguish the kind of obsession that produces extraordinary results from the kind that creates tunnel vision, maybe damages relationships, or eventually burns out the entrepreneur?

So I actually— maybe I want to make sure to clarify something, which is that I actually think there is a definite distinction between obsession that's going to lead to success and obsession that will lead to failure. But it's a very fine line. And in many cases, most founders who are truly great have that level of obsession that will likely lead them to burnout. and failure, um, at some point in their lives as an entrepreneur. So when you look at all the great ones out there, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, you can go down the list, right? Um, I would guarantee most of them had probably years where they were so deep in it and so obsessed that they were very unhealthy, that they were hurting all of their relationships. Um, they needed to do that to get to where they where they got to. And I actually think that's the case for most founders. If you want to be truly great, you have to be so obsessed that it is at the detriment of essentially everything else in your life. Now, that might not be the right way to live. That's not going to work. Not even, even if you are that obsessed, you still might fail and not get anything out of it. So it's a real risk reward. But I think that is truly what obsessive people have is they are so obsessed. That's all they think about every day. That is what, like almost the definition of obsession.

Yeah. Yeah. And I like that you had this distinction, though, the obsession that leads to success versus the one that doesn't. And implicit in the examples you gave, and I remember reading about Bill Gates, you know, when he was, he was a teenager, right? And so he would do these like 48-hour or longer, you know, coding binges, right? But it's not sustainable. And so, you know, it's this maybe it's like period of time. It's almost like when you have a child, the first year of life is insanity. Whenever I'm giving advice If I'm asked for young parents, I just say, just don't die. That's my advice. Just try to get through it. Just try to get through it. Like, try not to die, right? So, there seems to be an element of that. So, maybe I just want to interpret what I heard you say. At the beginning, maybe the obsession is not balanced, it's not sustainable, but it's kind of necessary to have the breakthroughs. But then, but the work I see you doing with entrepreneurs is then recognizing this is not sustainable. It will crush you eventually, right? And so, the question is, how do you then build a structure around it that is sustainable? And I just think it's a fascinating fine line. And I like trying to help people find what that line is. So it's a— maybe build on the next question that I'd written this down and I think it builds nicely. And I want to hear what you think about that, the nuance that you're trying to offer here. Because your profile contains 2 ideas that seem almost contradictory. You have a driving sense of urgency and believe speed wins. So there's an element of obsession there, right? But you also say, I am content, and therefore, I have won. I love that line. So, how do you remain extraordinarily ambitious without making your happiness dependent on the next company or investment or milestone or achievement? Yeah.

I mean, look, the honest answer is I don't know if I'm extraordinarily ambitious. I think probably compared to most people, I am. However, compared to— I live in Silicon Valley, in San Francisco specifically. Compared to people here, I'm probably not. Um, and also to add to that, like, I'm a really good entrepreneur. Like, I built Shore into a, a good, fast, decently fast-growing, successful company. We're doing 30 to 50% year-over-year growth. We're profitable. Most people would view that as good compared to the companies in San Francisco. It's not actually good. Um, so, but I'm, I, I can, I matured enough to admit maybe I'm not obsessed enough to be— At that like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos type level. Sure. Um, very few people are, right? And, and that's hard to acknowledge cuz I have an ego as well. But the simple fact is like, I'm probably not at that level. I'm not obsessed enough, um, to do that. I, I are— I work 10 to 12 hour days, probably 6 days a week. So I work really hard and I've gotten used to that. That's just my, my norm now. But I don't even know if that's enough, or maybe I don't, you know, whatever it is. Um, so that's my honest answer is like, that is a contradiction, but I, but I recognize that contradiction and therefore I'm content with where I'm at and I've come to peace with that fact. So therefore I'm content and it, I feel very, I feel content every day, which I think is a really lucky place to be.

So I'm gonna do a self-reference here if I may. Um, I, the last 6 years of my 14-year career at Intel Corporation, I was a director in Intel Capital. So I was working with entrepreneurs and you're doing a lot of like seed stage and We were stage agnostic, so you could kind of be any size company. But one of the things that I found interesting is some people would approach, you know, Intel Capital or other venture capitalists for an investment. And one of the kindest pieces of advice I could give to a certain category of people was do not take venture capital because most businesses really shouldn't take venture capital. They're not set up for that hockey stick growth, right?

Correct.

And you just, you know, you set the bar for yourself. You know, at Elon Musk, right? At Jeff Bezos. I mean, you went straight to the most extreme, you know, outside the unicorn example, like way out on the far end of the bell curve. And if a person does that, I think you just set yourself up for disappointment or dissatisfaction. And the truth is, the vast majority of human beings, the vast majority of businesses don't need a hockey stick. They don't need obsession. It's fine. And there's a kind of like contentment that comes with just doing meaningful work and, you know, and working hard and caring about the people around you. Mm-hmm. And because you're in Silicon Valley and I lived it too, sometimes it feels like it can be skewed. So you're in— you surround yourself with people who can give you that skewed set. And by every definition, you are very successful and a great role model. But, you know, not if you compare yourself to the Farnam Bell curve, I guess. Is that fair?

Correct. And that's the challenge. No, that's exactly it. Like, that's where I've had to look. I came out here— the best, probably some of the best advice I received when I was young was Um, when I was deciding what to do, so I finished grad school, so I got a lot of JD and MBA for those who are listening. Um, and I talked to, I sat down with the founder backed by Sequoia, which is one of the top venture capital firms. Yeah. Um, and he would— I grew up in Washington, DC, so I was in Washington, DC working as sort of my first job post-grad school and sat down with the guy and he was like, look, if you want to be in politics, stay in DC, right? That's where the best people in politics, quote unquote, whatever that means, best people in politics. But if you want to be a political person, DC is the place to be, right? If you want to be in finance, go to New York. If you want to be in media, go to LA, and if you want to be in tech, go to San Francisco. Um, and the reason he suggested that is because it's like, you want to test yourself against the best people, you go where they are, and that hones you into a stronger knife in a sense. Like, that's honing you into— you're fighting against the best. And I came here 16 years ago, and that's made me, I think, better as an entrepreneur and founder, um, than most people. But I've also had to realize, at the time I thought I could be like that Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos. Like, I had that ego. I've come to the conclusion I'm not going to be. I can still be a fantastic entrepreneur, fantastic husband, fantastic father. Um, and that's— those are all great things too. And maybe give a little bit back to the world on podcasts like this.

I love it. No, this is just— this conversation, I think, resonates with a lot of the people I work with. And just, I think anyone who has ambitions in life feels the tension you're describing. You just threw in husband and father there, by the way, and, uh, those are huge categories of time and energy invested. And if you're obsessed about just the business part, those are often what fall by the wayside. And so that leads to the final question I want to ask you. As an entrepreneur and as a business leader, have you found it difficult to pursue your professional goals and also take good care of yourself physically and emotionally? And this thing, when I say emotionally, this includes the responsibilities you take on in your relationships, right? And the roles that you play and the commitments you make to others. Because many executives I work with have fallen into the ambitious person's trap, what I referred to at the top of this show, when you trash your physical health and emotional health and pursue your professional goals. So as you reflect on just your successful career and all the amazing things you've done, have you fallen into that trap, or have you been able to avoid it? And I'll just say there's no wrong answer. If you avoided it, please share your brilliant secrets. And if you've fallen into the trap, it's great to also be an object lesson of what not to do. Both work great. So I don't know, what's your take on that?

I think I've avoided it. I feel— Um, healthier today. I, I've always been fairly healthy, but I certainly feel healthier today, more energetic, frankly, in some ways smarter and more on top of it than I ever was before. Um, partially because I'm leading a healthier lifestyle. Uh, I, there's a bunch of things that I've set up in my life to— look, I think a lot of entrepreneurs tend to be fairly disciplined as well. Um, and so I've been fairly obsessed about like, how do I make sure I optimize my health? How do I optimize all the little parts? How do I optimize my home setup that I have right here? How do I do all these things? And I've kind of optimized all these things to a place where I feel like I've set up my life where it's hard not to have some level of success on a daily basis, right? It means, hey, I don't get sick very often. Um, I'm hopefully feeling great. I get good sleep every night. I can come to my job energetic, come to podcast energetic, and do all these things the right way. Um, and then emotionally, sort of the same thing. Like I've, I've set up my life mostly the way I want. Are there some things I wish I could do differently? Sure. I wish I had more time with friends sometimes, but it's also like, It's hard. We're all, all the friends that I know are all in the middle of like having kids and working really hard. And we're all, none of us have a lot of time. So it's like, it's kind of okay. Um, I dedicate very clearly a certain amount of time in the morning with my kids and then at night when they get home from school, but then when they go to bed, I get back on my computer and go to work. Like I literally turned on my Xbox for the first time in 6 years this weekend, 'cause we're gonna play Minecraft with my son for the first time ever. Um, but I hadn't turned it on in 6 years. Because literally, I just, I, I didn't have time. Like, it, it, it, that was something that I enjoyed playing video games.

Yeah.

I don't have time anymore for it. So I deprioritize certain things and that's what you just have to be willing to let go of some things and embrace new things.

You used the word obsession in that answer in a way I really liked because you were talking about your physical health, right? And, and, and then you basically, your definition of obsession in this case was optimization. And so maybe that's a good refinement of our earlier conversation. Obsession that serves you functions as a kind of optimization of the best use of your time and energy, right? An obsession that doesn't serve you goes too far. There's not an optimization, there's just an overwhelm, right? That, that is—

Yeah. I mean, you can be obsessed with alcohol, you can be obsessed with drugs, you can be obsessed with a lot of bad things that are gonna take you in bad directions. I'm obsessed with optimizing my sleep. I'm obsessed with optimizing how my company runs. I'm obsessed with all these small things that build up to hopefully like are positively compounding. into a place where my life is better in every way. And like, that goes financially too. Like, I get more pleasure from seeing my bank account increase than spending the money. Like, that seems weird to a lot of people, but like, that's what I— I don't like spending. It hurts me when I spend money. I enjoy it when it goes up and know that like, hey, financially we're well off and we can afford when we want to spend money on things, we can. Right. But I'm obsessed with all those small optimizations. Yeah. And I do obsess about that.

I love it. No, it sounds like Chore will, will obsess about the things that you don't need to obsess about, you know, to, to your potential clients. This is the message to them. So, okay, so Adam, what, what is the best way for people to get in touch with you or to learn more about Chore?

Yeah, pretty simple. Um, everyone in the world should hire Chore, hirechore.com. So H-I-I-R-E-C-H-O-R-E.com, hirechore.com. Come find us there. You can follow me on LinkedIn, of course. Um, or check out Entrepreneurial Excellence, the podcast.

Awesome. Well, Adam, thank you so much. It's wonderful to have you on the show. So as a reminder to everyone listening, this show is sponsored by The 90% Rule, helping leaders escape the grind of the ambitious person's trap and instead spend over 90% of your finite time on things you're good at, you enjoy, and you find meaningful. To learn more, go to executivementorcharlescott.com. And until next episode, go beyond your perceived limits and live the 90% life.