ANKC Obedience Sports with Jamie the Dog Trainer: How to Get Started and Level Up

Hello, dog peeps. Jack here. Just a quick one before we get into this episode. You may or may not be aware that when I'm not talking dog stuff with Max, I in fact interview people who are incarcerated in prisons across the United States on a show called One Minute Remaining Stories from the Inmates. And that show has been nominated for an award in America. And I would love your support if you've got 60 seconds to click the link in the show notes of this episode and just vote for my show. That would be amazing if you could. Thank you very much indeed. Oh, and don't forget to verify your email address. Otherwise, the vote does not count. Thank you.

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It's the Dog People Podcast with your host Jack Lawrence. Secretly, I decided to start this podcast for some free dog training advice. You know, Malinois seem to be like the dog at the moment. Like, I think people see them on Instagram doing these incredible things. Yeah. Go, oh my God, that's awesome. And then I get one like, oh my God, what the fuck have I done? And Max O'Neill.

You would not believe how many people I meet and I go, what made you want to get, say, an Aussie Shepherd? They go, I don't know. I go, had you met one before? They go, no. If you want to ask me how often I walk my own dog a week, it's only twice a week.

It's the Dog People Podcast, a podcast hopefully giving you a no-nonsense approach to dog training so you never have to shout, it's okay, he's friendly. My name is Jack Lawrence and Max O'Neill, the Down Under Dog Trainer, and joined by Jamie the Dog Trainer, who we recently had on to And he's going to tell us about his journey into dog training. But Max, of course, we're doing our series at the moment in dog sports and trying to encourage our listeners to do more with your dogs.

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's, you know, it's awesome to have your dog, but I think you can really develop a stronger bond with them and really fulfill them the more you do with them and giving an interesting life. And it's the same having kids. It's fun to go and watch them do sport and try soccer, and whether they're good at it, bad at it, it's almost beside the point. It's just getting them out and doing something with it. And I think slowly people are starting to incorporate dogs more and more in their lives and do more and more. So if you are looking for something to do with your dog, which is a question we get a lot, hey, like I've trained this, what else can we do now? Well, you might not think you're a dog sport person, but across this miniseries, we're hopefully trying to convert a few people and try and get you to go, you know what, I am going to have a crack at that. I know Jack, when he got Kira a couple of years ago, certainly didn't think he was going to end up in dog sport. But I think—

I didn't think I'd be ending up doing a dog podcast, mate. It was purely out of survival to start with because she was destroying my house. I'm like, stop it. What are you doing? And then I was like, okay, we need to work with you mentally. And that's the thing. And Jamie, that's the big thing with these dogs, isn't it? You know, Max and I talk about it so often on episodes about how dogs are more than just, you know, walk around the block, throw a ball for them, and then take them home. You know, there are a lot of dogs, you know, the majority of dogs need mental stimulation, and there's nothing real better than some dog sport for some mental stimulation for your dogs.

Yeah, no, I agree. It's sort of, it's one of those things that the amount of dogs that I'd work with, you know, I go to a consult and I'm working with a dog and it's funny, you know, the amount of times I'm working with this dog and I'm like, geez, this dog would be good in some dog sports.

Yeah, right.

Some people aren't interested in it, but yeah, but you know, deep down the dog would be and it would be great for them. So, you know, any way that we can encourage more participation in dog sports will be good for, be better for the dogs, all dogs really.

It's funny you say that. Casey from Lone Star Animal Behavior, bigshowpsa.com where we do our PSA with Nelson. He obviously does a lot of reactivity training with dogs, but he's, it's all— he's also become like almost like a bit of a headhunter for PSA. The amount of dogs that are coming there, like, got this super reactive shepherd, he's like, hey, you need to come here on a Tuesday night and do PSA with us. And some of the dogs at the club that are doing incredibly well at this now started off like that. And like a lot of what we're seeing, guys, with like what, you know, quote unquote problematic behaviors are really just like incompatible behaviors with society, but also the most natural thing for this dog to do. So if you've got a dog who's got these things that you go, oh, I wish my shepherd would stop barking. My collie would stop fixating. My, you know, my kelpie would sit still. Like quite often there's like, hey, there's a really constructive outlet for that you'd have a lot of fun with. And today the one we want to talk about with Jamie while we've got him is ANKC obedience, because that's one that you compete in with Sage, Riot. And you also compete in that with Walter as well.

Yeah. So Walter will be, he's, he's currently got some dye in his fur, which you might've seen. And they can't compete.

It looks like Arcanine.

Yeah. We're waiting. But Winnie, She does my 9-year-old golden. So she's actually, she's done a lot more competing than all of them. So, and she loves it. So, but yeah, so I compete, I'll compete with 4 of them.

Nice. Can you explain what it is for people who don't know what it is?

Yeah. Yeah. So obedience is a, like there's plenty of dog sports. Obedience, I think, would be close to the oldest one. I don't know exactly, but, and there's basically a heap of different classes and/or titles and you start I guess in the easier title, and you need three three passes to to go up. And yeah, it's a lot of fun. You train your dog for these things, and then a lot of a good thing about obedience too is there's a lot a lot of you know I guess stuff that you can apply in real life as well. The good thing about ANKC as well is previously there has been a few exercises that have deterred a lot of people from doing it, such as group stays. But they've they've listened to the people, and there's been a heap of rule changes come in from the first of January twenty-six, and they've scrapped. They've scrapped a lot of the— they've scrapped the group stays, for example, and I think it's going to boost a lot of participation and all that sort of stuff.

Excuse my ignorance, just quickly. What do you mean group stays? Sorry, I'm—

Yeah. So part of in the earlier levels, there's some group stays. So that's sort of the main contentious issue. And you do like a healing routine. So first off, and with a stay recall, and there's a stand for exam, which is all you know, pretty straightforward stuff. And then at the end they do a 2-minute down stay and a 1-minute sit stay, but it's in a group. So you line up, I think it's 1 or 2 meters apart, and yeah, then you stay your dog. But the problem was is that sometimes in the earlier levels in particular, it wasn't so much an issue in the more advanced stuff, you get dogs breaking stays. And, you know, then we'd have dogs very uncomfortable. We'd have a few incidents, for example, where a dog's broken a stay and, and, you know, got into an incident with another dog in a stay.

Yeah.

So a lot of people You know, found it risky. Okay. So they've scrapped it.

Fair enough. I mean, when you said group stay, I should have understood that that meant a group of dogs staying. So, so, so obviously, so this, this obedience stuff, it is, you know, heel work, as you said, the sit stays, the recalls and all that sort of stuff. But I suppose at a much higher level and, you know, is there all the distractions and stuff that come into that and, you know, avoiding toys and food and all that sort of stuff?

Yeah, there is. As things get higher up, you know, there's some— there starts to be some retrieve and, you know, some directed jumping and scent discrimination and all that sort of stuff sort of up in the higher levels.

Yeah.

In the earlier levels, you know, a lot of people see obedience as, you know, I guess this more serious sport. But to be honest, in the lower levels, the judges want to see you pass. So, you know, go out there, have a crack. And the other thing that I guess a lot of people, you know, don't realize, and I had this conversation with someone the other day, and is that People are really scared to fail, which is one of the reasons why people don't want to do dog sports. As they get in, they fail, and people are always surprised. Like, I've failed maybe— I've NQ'd like maybe 20 trials, so, and everyone does that. So, you know, people, you know, especially up in the higher levels, they may spend a year trying to get 3 passes, you know, to get up to the next level. So you NQ a heap of them. But in the lower levels, you know, judges want you to pass. They're going to help you out. It's a good Good little fun, fun event to take your dog to. And, and, you know, you do get a title with letters next to their name and all that sort of stuff, and that's there forever. So that's pretty cool. Yeah, it's pretty cool that, you know, you can leave a legacy for your dog well after, you know, well after even, you know, they're gone and we're gone. So it's still there.

So, and I think it's a great point you make is quite often a lot of these sports are far more supportive and community-based than people think. Like, I know when we go and watch the PSA trials and Quite often the dogs that get the biggest round of applause are the ones that failed because people are like, it's all good, like you'll try next time. And it's like, it's not one of the things that people go, you're an idiot, you shouldn't be here. It's actually the opposite. Like it's, and it's really cool to hear that even someone established like yourself who a lot of people would look up to would go, oh, okay, if Jamie's, you know, NQ'd 20+ times and that's kind of normal and it's all good, then, you know, a really popular saying I've heard, a really good saying I've heard, um, recently, um, from Jacob at Yorkshire Canine Academy in the UK is That perfectionism is the enemy of the done. So sometimes you might try and wait until something is absolutely perfect, but if you're constantly waiting for that, you'll never get it done. So if you're thinking of getting into this ANKC or another type of dog sport, you don't have to wait until your dogs are the best of the best. Just get out there and get it done and just, just start having a crack. So with ANKC obedience, what does it actually stand for? My guess is like Australian National Kennel Club, but is that it? Or am I completely off the mark?

Yeah, so you've got, um, I guess your different National bands, so you've got ANKC, but then in the U.S., I think it's AKC obedience. And I think the rules do vary slightly, but I think the I guess the framework is similar.

Yeah.

So okay. I don't know exactly how much it differs, but it looks pretty similar to me when I see trials and stuff from over there.

So oh sorry, I was gonna say in terms of levels. So obviously with like your PSA and IGP, your bite sports, you've got your BH or your PDC, like your basic level, and then you've got your three levels: your IGP one, two. PSA 1, 2, 3.

Does—

so does ANKC follow a similar format? I know you said there's different levels.

Is—

how many levels are there? Like entry, novice, advanced, or—

Yeah, yeah. So there's 50 different levels. So you've got, um, so the ultimate goal is, um, Obedience Grand Champion, so which only a handful of dogs every year get, and it can take years. So, um, you know, a lot of the dogs that get, you know, an OCH, um, you know, are going to be, you know, 7 or 8 years old, um, by the time they sort of, uh, I guess accomplish it. Um, but you start off at what's called CCD, which is your Community Companion Dog. And you actually can skip that level. It's an optional level. I recommend you start in it because it's designed to, you know, be an intro into it. You can go straight into what's called CD or Community Dog. And then after that, you go CDX and then UD and UDX. So, and then from UDX, there's a whole heap of other different things you've got to do to get, you know, BDM's Grand Champion after you've passed that as well.

So what's UD? Is that Union Dog or you're not like—

Utility Dog Excellence.

Utility That makes more sense.

Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah. So, um, so how many— there's 5, um, different classes, and then you've got, um, yeah, your grand champion, which you need a certain amount of passes multiple times on different judges and things. I don't know the exact rules. None of my dogs have gone to OCH, so.

Gotcha. Okay, that's cool. So ANKC obedience, so who do you think it's good for if you do have someone that's wanting to get into dog sports or, you know, wanting to do something extra with the dog? And who do you think it suits?

Honestly, obedience is probably the most broad one. I mean, you know, if you go to an obedience trial, every, you know, dog that you can think of is there. You can even do it with a crossbreed. So you just register as what's called an associate. So you can register, you register with Dogs Victoria. If you've got a dog that doesn't have pedigree papers, you just gotta register the dog as an associate member. If they've got pedigree, you don't have to. And then you can basically enter competitions. They're super cheap. You know, they might be, I can't remember the price now, but they're sort of, you know, Per dog, it might be $15, $20 or something. So it's not, it's not too bad.

Yeah.

And the good thing about obedience competitions as well is, or trials, is there, there's one every weekend almost. You could, if you wanted to, you could, like in Victoria, you could travel all around Victoria almost every weekend, every second weekend doing trials with your dog. So you can, you can, you can do as many or as little as you need.

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This guy is really cute. I think I'm in love.

I—

wait, is that a dirty sock in the bathroom sink? Toothpaste on the mirror? What is that? Oh no, where's the toilet seat? It's like a haunted house in here. The shower? No, no, no, dear God, get me out of here! Wait, a Jolie? I knew you were the one.

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I think you raised a really good point there. Whereas, whereas a lot of sports are, you know, really focused on particular breeds, you know, obviously your retrievals are going to be very retriever-based. Your bite sports are very big for your shepherds, rotties, you know, Dobermans, etc. But I really like what you said then is like, well, you know, there's no breed restrictions. Any breed can do it. And, you know, to put that into perspective, guys, one of our favorite clients, uh, Lala the pug, competes in AKC obedience. And I think she's up to utility dog or something. She's quite well rated in it. And, um, and she's a pug. So again, like, it's, you don't have to think, oh, I need this like super drivey, zippy border collie. It's, it's something that anyone can have a crack at. And like you said, it's not everyone needs to teach their dog to jump, you know, 30 feet off a dock or retrieve a duck from a dam or bite someone's arm off. But Like I said, with ANKC obedience is different because there's so much real-world application. And although it's fun having it, you're also going to go, well, sweet, my dog's going to be better behaved at the beach, better at the cafe, you know, getting along better with dogs. And there's a lot of net benefit to it, isn't there?

Yeah, there is.

And look, there's a lot of, you know, I guess what you call off-breeds doing obedience and really successfully. I mean, over in Perth, there's a friend actually who hosted me for a seminar last year, Alex Deezy. She has that little Brussels named Tango, and he's, you know, you want to see his heel work. It's like amazing. So he's such a talented handler. Like, it was funny, she contacted me to, you know, it was like, hey, can we get you over to a seminar? And I went over there, and, you know, she— I probably learned more from her than she did from me while I was over there, possibly. You know, just a really talented handler who really knows what she's doing. And, you know, you have these dogs that you don't really assume would be great at obedience are fantastic. And the other, I guess, bonus with obedience as well is that there is Rally as well. I don't compete in rally, but rally competitions or trials are usually on the same day as obedience in the same area. And they're, I guess, a lot less— I guess it feels a lot less serious, so you can talk to your dog and all that sort of stuff. So a lot of people enjoy rally a lot more than even obedience. So you've got multiple options. Nice.

So if people wanted to get into ANKC obedience, am I right in thinking that most major cities or towns around Australia are going to have a club?

Yeah, yeah. That's sort of the beauty of ANC obedience is there's not too many places around that don't have a club. I mean, Victoria, I'd hate to think how many clubs they've got. There's there's there probably hundreds. So yeah, anywhere you go. And the good thing about any of your club stuff is that it's not it's it's cost effective. It's not it's not expensive to join. You know, so BDOC, I think, you know, an eighty dollar joining fee. But that's it. So and I think I'm not sure if they still do that. a gold coin or whatever every time you show up to training, which, you know, it's a full volunteer run and same with all the clubs. So, you know, it doesn't take— there's not many barriers to entry to get into that sort of sport. And the thing now with any sort of dog sports, there's so many getting around, like different sports now that appeal. You know, I mentioned before dock diving and there's, I don't know if, you know, I'm assuming it's still, it's pretty big up in Queensland now as well. But sprint dog, for example, in Vic is—

Yes.

Huge. You know, people You know, entries go up and at the moment they've had, I think they had to ballot the entries because, you know, people were getting in so quick and it was, some people were a bit disadvantaged getting into entries. So they balloted it and now you enter and you're randomly selected to get in there. That, it's that hard to get into. So, you know, there's a lot of sports around.

Yeah, no, it's excellent. I think sprint dogs is something I want to try with Nelson. He used to outpace that greyhound at times. So it'd be pretty cool to try that drag racing for dogs.

So— Is that what it is?

Yeah, yeah, literally just line them up and chase each other around.

Line them up and go.

Yeah, yeah.

Fantastic. Can we put bets down on this?

Yeah, I mean, look, there's a bit of a black market going for it, so I'm sure that— I'm sure you can.

Yeah.

So ANKC obedience, we've talked about what it is, how to get into it, who it's good for. If you've got any other questions, guys, as always, post them in the Facebook group. Jack and I'll happily answer those.

Well, I mean, I might but not, but Max will definitely answer the questions.

And yeah, give it your best shot.

Yeah, I do try from time to time. You know, you probably find that on social media. There is a lot of people on social media you will have found, Jamie, that I know a lot about dog training and there is thousands of dog trainers in the comments section of Instagram. So I try and not be that guy. I try and leave it to what I call you guys, the professionals. Thank you so much indeed for talking us through that stuff. It's fascinating. I do love the fact that it's sort of, this stuff is for all breeds because as I mentioned to you before, like with Kira, I got her into the gundog stuff and we did try and get into a gundog club, but They were breedist and said that she wasn't allowed. So, so I do like that this is a bit more about. That sucks.

I think the is it the the retrieving trials and the rat G trials are the only one of the only dog sports left that are yeah restricted to breed. I think so, which is yeah a shame. They're just worried that we're going to show them up with their bloody Labradors.

All right, as Max said, any questions jump on the Facebook group, the Dog People Podcast, and of course follow Jamie online, Jamie. Jamie the Dog Trainer, thanks very much indeed for joining us, legend.

Thanks for your time, Jamie.

Yep, no worries at all. Thanks for having me, guys.

The Dog People Podcast is a Mashed Pumpkin production hosted by Jack Lawrence and Max O'Neill, edited, produced, and audio production by Jack Lawrence.

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This guy is really cute. I think I'm in love.

I—

wait, is that a dirty sock in the bathroom sink? Toothpaste on the mirror? What is that? Oh no, where's the toilet seat? It's like a haunted house in here. The shower? No, no, no, dear God, get me out of here! Wait, A Jolie? I knew you were the one.

Your best self? It's in the water. Find a Jolie filtered showerhead at jolieskinco.com.