Held Hostage for 9 Weeks: The Lessons That Changed His Life | Sam Goodwin

Welcome to the Legacy All-Stars Podcast. We feature inspirational stories from people who dedicate themselves to helping others. Here is your host, Alan Pavlosky.

Welcome back, everyone. This is the Legacy All-Stars Podcast. I'm your host, Alan Pavlosky, and today's guest has built a life around leaning into the unknown. Sam Goodwin is a keynote speaker, bestselling author, and founder of SGI Ventures, where he helps leaders and organizations turn uncertainty into their greatest competitive advantage. Sam is one of the few people in the world to have traveled to all 193 countries, a journey nearly a decade in the making. Along the way, he earned his doctorate in international affairs from Johns Hopkins, and he faced an experience that would test everything he knew about resilience. His bestselling memoir, Saving Sam, tells that story, and it now forms the foundation of the leadership work he brings to organizations around the globe. Today, we're going to talk about what it really takes to lead and grow when life doesn't go as planned. Sam, welcome to Legacy All-Stars. Great to have you.

Thanks for the intro, Alan. Great to be here.

Yeah, let's jump right into the questions. I've been excited to dive into this with you because there's so many compelling aspects of your story. Take us back to the beginning. What first pulled you toward entrepreneurship and a life spent traveling the world? Thanks.

So, well, I guess I'll start. You know, you come from a sports background, and I grew up in St. Louis, Missouri, and a lot of my, you know, childhood with my siblings and I revolved around playing hockey, and I was fortunate to have some success with the sport. Played in college at Niagara University. Towards the end of my college time, I had some concussion injuries and kind of ended my formal playing career. But from there, it kind of led into your question. I had the opportunity to move to Singapore to work for a tech startup company, and that felt pretty crazy at the time. I'd never been to Asia, and, you know, as a recent grad, early 20-year-old, I think a lot of people would say, do something a little more stable than go work for a startup. But I planned to only be there for about 3 months, but ended up staying for 6 years.

Wow!

And it was a fantastic opportunity. I mean, I learned more in an early-stage job than I ever could have imagined. And I think for those 6 years, every meeting that I went into, I was the dumbest person in the room. But simultaneously, it was a time of huge personal and professional growth. Learned more about business in the real world than I ever could have imagined. And at the same At the same time, was based in Southeast Asia and had the opportunity to begin traveling. And, you know, the world's best airport in my backyard and just weekends and holidays, just, you know, it was an opportunity to travel as much as I could. And that was kind of how that started. But I think the travel and really the entrepreneurship was really rooted in just an unrelenting curiosity that I think I had since I was a kid.

When the travel bug bites, it's hard to get healed from that, right?

No doubt. No doubt.

Yeah. You spent years building a tech startup and an NGO in Singapore before setting out to visit every country on Earth. What was the spark behind that goal?

Yeah, I think it was, you know, the original goal was never to try to go to every country. It was always about learning, understanding people. Travel is the best education I've ever had. It was never about ticking boxes or checking places off a list, but just a personal preference. I didn't like to repeat places. So even if I went somewhere and had a great experience, The next weekend, the next holiday, the next opportunity I had, I would just go somewhere different. And I put that formula into play for about 6 years. And in early 2018, I realized that I had traveled to about 120 countries in the world.

Wow.

And it was at that point I remember thinking, well, how many are there? And, you know, the competitive athlete kicked in. And at that point, the style of travel changed a little bit, and then I decided to try to go to rest of them.

Yeah, that's great. Well, nearly a decade on the road, what did that journey teach you about yourself that you couldn't have learned any other way?

Yeah, I mean, travel teaches us so many things. It teaches us how to let expectations take a backseat and replace stereotypes with real experiences. It teaches us the power of perspective. I mean, for me, travel has taught, has taught me how to never judge people by the actions of their government. I've learned that people who have the least often give the most, something I found to be true in all corners of the world. And the, the list goes on.

Well, I've been dying to dive into this topic with you because in 2019, your journey took an unimaginable turn when you were detained abroad. Tell us a little bit about what happened and how did that experience change the way you think about uncertainty?

Yeah. So, from 2010 to 2020, in those 10 years, as we were talking about, I traveled every country in the world. And, some of that was for work and a lot of that was because I'm a curious person. And, in May of 2019, after having been to 180 of 193 countries, I traveled to Syria and I was kidnapped off the street.

Wow.

I was accused of being an American spy. I was taken hostage. I was held for 9 weeks in some pretty uncomfortable situations. And thank God, thanks to a long list of people who worked tirelessly, the situation ended peacefully and I was able to come home. And as you're kind of referencing with your question here, it, it transformed my perspective on a lot of things personally, professionally, spiritually, and has actually formed the foundation of what I do today. I wrote a book about the experience, and I'm fortunate to say last year it became a bestseller. And, you know, my primary theme that I speak about today is uncertainty and I was pushed to a point of overwhelming uncertainty, truly life or death. But through that, I learned some things, some things that helped me and some things that I think can help all of us when we're facing our own forms of uncertainty. And the 3 key things that really helped me, the first was leaning into gratitude, which is a little bit counterintuitive, but I found in solitary confinement that gratitude became this silent rebellion against the uncertainty of the situation. The second was To control the things that I could control, which I think a lot of that actually came from a career as a competitive athlete. How many times have we had a boss or a coach tell us, control what you can control? And then, the third was to recognize uncertainty as an opportunity. And in that cell, as my body shut down, my mind got sharper. And today, I communicate this framework. And I think that when we lean into gratitude, when we control what we can control, and when we recognize uncertainty as an opportunity, When we adopt that framework, those 3 things in that order, it allows us to win and grow through uncertainty. And there's so much uncertainty in our world today with our business leaders, our government leaders, our healthcare leaders, our education leaders, et cetera. And so having a framework that I learned through lived experience, I try to do what I can to share that with others today.

Yeah, you know, I think it's so powerful to reframe circumstances into positives. And what you're saying really resonates with me because gratitude is, of course, the most powerful thing you can possibly give yourself. And ultimately, when it comes down to it, reframing circumstances into positives allows you to get through them a lot better. Looking back, is there a lesson from that chapter that surprised you, something you didn't expect that adversity would teach you?

Yeah, you know, I can't say that I was, you know, taken hostage, put in a cell, and immediately was able to be grateful. You know, it took, it took some time. It was a roller coaster.

For sure.

Emotionally, spiritually. But after time, I did find strength in that. You know, everything had been taken from me— my, my material possessions, my communication, my freedom. But no matter what, I knew that gratitude could be absolute. And gratitude isn't always easy, but it is always available. And that's what I found in that situation.

Yeah. That experience, as we talked about, eventually became the foundation for your signature framework, Winning Through Uncertainty. How did you turn something so personal into a tool that other leaders could use to make themselves better?

You know, when I came home, and still today, I don't feel so much survivor's guilt as I feel what I often characterize as survivor's responsibility. And so I felt this responsibility to try to use this experience for good. And what that would be, I didn't know. But, you know, the reality is we could be held hostage by anything— alcohol, drugs, illness, relationships, finances, injuries. I mean, some of us probably feel that way with AI today. But the way that we embrace and manage those challenges, the actions we take, I think that defines who we become and from where we begin again. So, a lot of it for me was rooted in what I felt is a responsibility.

Yeah. What's the biggest misconception leaders have about uncertainty? Do most people see it as a threat when it's actually an opportunity?

That's what I was going to say. I think a lot of people see it as a threat when it really can be an advantage. And that's what I try to communicate today, that it can be potentially our greatest advantage. You know, we can't always choose the circumstances that we're in, but we can always choose. We can always choose our next move. And that was something that I found when everything had been taken from me. And I think something that can be relevant to all of us today.

Yeah. So through SGI Ventures, you work with executives and organizations with keynotes, coaching, and leadership programs. What is a shift you constantly see in leaders once you apply this framework?

A lot of people say they have a shift in perspective. You know, people will come up to me and say all kinds of things, but I think when they really reflect on the framework and, you know, the presentations are narrative-driven and include the dramatic elements of the story, and I do about 60 corporate keynotes a year, but they also weave in and conclude with these key principles that we can all implement into our own life. And one of the challenges that I had when I started was trying to make this relevant to people. But what I realized was that it can be because we all feel trapped. We can all feel stuck. We can all feel like we're confined in our own proverbial prison cell. There are steps that we can take to work towards that. I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but I won't say that being held hostage is the same thing as selling life insurance. But what I will say is that the same recipe or responses can be effective.

Yeah, for sure. For a founder or executive facing a genuinely uncertain season right now, a pivot, a setback, a big unknown— I think we've all gone through some of those things. What's the first mindset shift you'd walk them through?

I would say, you know, we could, we could be, you know, I think that we are all, we are all stronger and more resilient than we can imagine. And uncertain times are exactly what we need in order to grow. You know, people say to me, oh, I never would've, you know, I never would've been able to do it. Well, it's like, okay, the other option was dying, right? So, so I think we're all stronger than we can imagine, and I don't think we often realize how strong we are until strength is our only option. So I try to give people that perspective.

Yeah. Well, you talked about your experience as a D1 hockey player earlier, and to go from D1 hockey player to entrepreneur, to author, to keynote speaker, what's the common thread that carried you through every chapter?

You know, I bought a course on entrepreneurship this past semester at WashU in St. Louis. to graduate-level business and international affairs students. When I was putting together the plan for the semester, I wasn't quite sure how to best teach entrepreneurship and everything that goes into it. So what I decided was that I was going to create a course that was centered around guest speakers. So it was 15 weeks. Every week, I brought in an entrepreneur who I had met from around the world.

Wow!

who were doing interesting things. And these were people from all corners of the world who I had met. They had built businesses from the ground up to 6-figure income. And we had lots of great discussions in these classes. We talked about— the lessons were what you would expect. It was cash is oxygen and hire great people, get out of their way. The difference between a winner and loser is character, all these things. And at the end of the class, I asked each of the guests the same question. I said, so what advice would you give to an aspiring entrepreneur today? And at the beginning of the semester, I was expecting that the answers to this question was going to be, you know, some complex business jargon or sophisticated strategy that would frankly be over my head. But what happened when I asked each of these guests the same question, regardless of industry, nationality, background, age, They all answered the question the same way. They said, just start. They said they would caveat this with the importance of having a plan, et cetera. But the best advice they gave was just start. They said the cost of delay compounds faster than the cost of being wrong. And so when I think about your question, what is the underlying theme or ethos to everything that I've done? So much of it has been just starting. I had no idea what I was doing when I started in Singapore. I had no idea how to run a book or write a dissertation. Or recently, I got a pilot's license. The first time I showed up at the airport, I didn't even know how to open the door of the plane. I mean, I did an Ironman this year, and a year ago, I took a swimming lesson, and I was just trying not to drown. Like, literally, forget swimming 2.4 miles, but I just started. And it was interesting to hear that said from these guests, and I think it's something that we can all take away with our various endeavors and dreams.

Yeah, you know, that lines up with a philosophy I've lived by for my entrepreneurial career, which has been 40 years in the making. But the one saying that I always keep coming back to—

I'm going to have you teach my class next semester.

Maybe, yeah. Perfection is the enemy of the good. And ultimately, most things that you endeavor to do are good enough to start, as you said. And I resonate with exactly what the other entrepreneurs were saying, is that you have to find it within yourself to start and to abandon the fear of judgment and the fear of putting yourself out there in a way that's not perfect, because perfection really is the enemy of the good.

I think you're spot on. I think you're spot on. Yeah, absolutely.

So in your work as an adjunct professor at Washington U, has there been any students or people that have come through your entrepreneurship program that has inspired you and that gives you hope for the next generation of entrepreneurs?

You know, I think it's just great to be surrounded by people who are innovative, who are taking risks, who are out there trying to solve big problems. And so I think that's been really inspiring. And I think, you know, of course the people we surround ourselves with just impact so much of what we do today. So I think just being part of those discussions has been really great. And it's often said that being an entrepreneur means living a few years of your life in a way that most people won't, so that You could potentially live the rest of your life in a way that most people can't. And it's a little bit of a cliché saying, but being around that community is a great reminder. And I often say to people, you know what, sort of changing topics a little bit, but it's related. You know, what do you want to do before you die? What do you want to do and why aren't you doing it? So channel a little bit of your inner entrepreneur, take some risks. I often say the best advice that I've ever been given is the quickest way to be unhappy is to live our lives and make decisions based on other people's judgments. And you hinted at that just a minute ago about not caring what other people think and being surrounded by that community of innovators. It was just a great reminder of a bunch of these things. Wow.

You gave me the perfect assist to my next question. So that was like a little Magic Johnson. There we go. When you think about legacy that you want to leave as a speaker, a founder, a father, what does that look like?

That I gave more than I took.

Nice. Yeah, simply stated. It's beautiful. Tell me what's next for you and SGI Ventures. Any new projects or directions you're excited about?

Thanks. Well, I say what's next personally, my wife is pregnant and we're expecting a daughter in about 4 months. So I'm really excited about That new journey and so blessed for what's ahead. You know, as far as SGI and my speaking, you know, right now I feel like I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, and I'm so grateful to say the feedback continues to be, you know, positive. I receive really nice feedback. And so my plan is to continue, you know, continue doing that and continue to kind of fulfill this responsibility that I feel from, you know, from what's happened in the past.

You know, it strikes me, and again, this is kind of a dovetail into a different set of circumstances, but it strikes me It's amazing to me that being vulnerable and being willing to share a story that was so potentially painful and powerful for you personally can affect people in such an amazing and positive way. What gave you the courage to be vulnerable about that? And how has it affected the people that have learned from you?

Oh, it took some time. And I was fortunate to be surrounded by an overwhelmingly purposeful support system, family and friends, meetings in the Oval Office, lots of medical support. I'm physically healthy today. But one of the challenges was that when I came home, there was so much— there was a lot of negativity about, um, you know, a lot of negative comments on social media, a ton of— just a ton of negativity. And that actually delayed me from putting this out there for a little bit because I was like, oh, I don't know if I want to— if I want to get into that. But, you know, today I've just looked at it as fuel and I've come a long way. And just— it's really just been about surrounding myself with the right people to kind of move through those types of things.

Yeah, that's great. Well, for our listeners who are facing their own version of uncertainty right now, what's one simple step you'd encourage them to take today?

I mean, I would say what, you know, what my guest speaker said, just start. Because none of us really have it figured out. You know, we could put things online that make us seem like we've got everything together, but the reality is we're all kind of making it up. We're all trying to find a way. And if it feels difficult or hard, then you're probably on the right track. You're probably on the right track. You know, being an entrepreneur means it's quitting your 9-to-5 job to work 24/7. But the payoff is, even if your business or your venture doesn't grow to be the next Amazon, Salesforce, or Uber, what's learned through that is Typically even more valuable.

Yeah, no doubt. Well, we've come to the end of the show. I really want to thank you, Sam, for your openness and for turning one of the hardest chapters of your life into something that helps other leaders grow stronger. Your story is a powerful reminder that legacy isn't built in spite of uncertainty. It's often built because of it. For our listeners, you can find Sam's book, Saving Sam, and learn more about his work at samrgoodwin.com. Don't forget the R in the middle. That'll be important. I hope you enjoyed this episode and have taken some inspiration from Sam's words. I certainly have, and I look forward to follow-up conversations with you for sure. Thank you again for being here.

Alan, thanks so much for having me and helping to spread the word, and congratulations on all of your success.

No, thank you. Well, everybody, I'm Alan Pavlosky. This has been another episode of Legacy All-Stars. I hope you do something for others today. I think it's critically important that we use the power of our platform or the power of our opportunities that we're provided to make a difference in the lives of others. So thank you for joining us.