#44: Lauren Bush Lauren, Founder and CEO of FEED — Building a business while making an impact, wh...

Welcome to From Startup to Grownup, the podcast. My name is Alisa Cohn. I'm an executive coach, an angel investor, and the author of From Startup to Grownup. Each week I talk to founders, creators, advisors, investors, and builders of all kinds about their insights and experiences in going from startup to grownup. Welcome back, and I'm thrilled today to have Lauren Bush Lauren on the podcast. Lauren is the CEO and co-founder of FEED Projects, fashion that gives back. I love FEED Projects. You can find them at feedprojects.com, and every bag you buy provides a certain number of meals to feed kids living with food insecurity. So it's a really good cause, and I have my own FEED bag myself. Lauren and I covered a ton of ground, including her early days as a scrappy entrepreneur and her multiple attempts at getting into Whole Foods and how she ultimately succeeded. Try, try again. We talked about the founding insight of FEED and how she realized she could combine the world of fashion, which she was drawn to, along with her desire to make an impact in the world of children living with food insecurity. We also talked about company building, how she grew to realize who exactly she needed on her team, how she learned to be more direct, and mistakes she made in hiring and what she learned from them. Something that all entrepreneurs and really all leaders can relate to. We also talked about what was like growing up in the Bush family and how she took the lessons of public service into her life. Lauren is a joy, such a delight, and we had such an amazing conversation. I know you're gonna love it and you're gonna get a ton out of it. So please enjoy this tremendous conversation with Lauren Bush Lauren the CEO and co-founder of Feed Projects.

Lauren, welcome to the show. I am so excited to have you. I'm so excited about all the different things you're involved with, and I just have loved our conversations. And I first want to start off by tell us about Feed and tell us specifically about the founding insight.

Sure. Thank you for having me. This is so much fun.

Yeah.

Um, so Feed is a social business I started 15 years ago. So in 2007, But even prior to starting it, I had this sort of amazing life-changing opportunity starting when I was a sophomore in college at Princeton to travel around the world with the UN World Food Program. And it was really through that sort of firsthand experience of being able to travel and visit countries and communities around the globe that are dealing with food insecurity and with hunger that I came back from those experiences and those, you know, meeting with families and meeting with community leaders saying, gosh, Hunger is this massive global world issue. I think now it's like 804 million people globally wake up, you know, hungry and don't necessarily know where their next meal is coming from. I think it's like 1 in 8 people roughly, just to give, you know, a sense of scale. And yet when you visit families and communities and specifically children just because of where they're born, they're born into this life of of poverty and of hunger. I came back from those experiences obviously very moved and wanting to do something. And as a student in college, you're like, well, I'm, you know, what can I do? And I would go and I would talk to my friends and, you know, peers in different colleges and in my college about what we could do. And I didn't quite have an answer. So Feed kind of came out of that feeling of frustration about on one hand being my eyes open to the realities of just the great disparity that exists in the world.

Yeah.

And then the frustration of not then knowing what I personally could do to help others get involved.

I mean, it's so inspiring. And I guess I maybe have two questions. Like, you were sitting there as a sophomore in college, la la la. And like, how did you come? How did the, did the UN come to you? Did you see a flyer?

Totally.

Like, how did you even, how did that even come to you?

It honestly was like divine luck in some ways.

Yeah.

I was actually on the Today Show. So backing up further.

Yeah.

I started to model a little when I was in high school and then I did it through college to like earn a little money and, you know, do fun things. And through that experience, I was involved in this and I always loved design and fashion design. So prior to that too, even in high school and through college, I would spend, I did like a summer course at Parsons and Central Saint Martin. So I was kind of using my free time, you know, outside of school to also learn about the fashion industry via modeling, but via these classes too. So an opportunity came up just through all that. I forget even how now that you're asking to basically design a wedding dress and that the funds from that were going to be used to help a women's charity. So I was like, great. So it was like this random project I helped to do with other, you know, many other people helped participate too. But I was selected as like the spokesperson for the project to go on the Today Show.

Oh.

To talk about this project. And as luck would have it, the UN World Food Program was like tuning in that day, a representative there, communications officer, and saw like, oh, this is a college student who clearly has a, like cares about world issues and a cause. Maybe she would be good.

Yeah.

So it's kind of a weird, funny thing. And yet at the same time, In college, I was taking ethics classes about development work and actually was even thinking about hunger as a world issue and grappling with that. So philosophically and intellectually was something I was— I majored in anthropology. I was just interested in that. So when I came across the World Food Program's radar and they were looking for a student ambassador, essentially to get more young people aware of world hunger and active in the Fight to End World Hunger, and they designed a website that I helped, you know, them design to get students active. So it really was such luck. But obviously in meeting them, I said, you know, I really want to understand the issue. I want to be— I want to know that I'm being effective for what you need me to be effective in order to engage students. And that's how I was able to go on a few trips with them to really see firsthand and really learn firsthand about the issues of hunger.

That makes so much sense because it's, you know, at first they would be looking at you because you were in this charity thing because of your design background. But like, little did they know that you were also an anthropology major and that you had this sort of ethics, philosophical kind of leaning. So actually it was like a prepared mind for you. Like the marriage of a couple of things coming together.

It was so, like, it was just one of the most fortuitous things in my life.

And so when you were in, I'd love you to hear just maybe one or two experiences of what it was like when you were in those places, because then you also come, I understand that you were moved and I definitely wanna hear about that, but like, Then when you came back, you said, "Well, obviously I was— obviously I had to do something." Well, actually, a lot of people go and do— see things that they don't have to feel that frustration and they have to do something. So first of all, maybe share a story or two from those experiences. And then what was the inner drive that brought you back to make a difference?

Great question. So, yeah, in terms of experiences, I mean, gosh, it's hard to pick a few out, but I guess, I mean, one that is extremely emotional still for me. It was the very first trip I took with the World Food Program was to Guatemala and the very first stop on that very first trip. So it was like brand new to all of this was in, you know, very rural Guatemala to this what's called a therapeutic feeding clinic where essentially kids who are very malnourished are taken and sort of, you know, they try to revive them with like nutrient-rich calorie-rich foods and interventions. So to see firsthand the level of what malnutrition literally does to children was beyond heartbreaking and jarring and shocking and all the things you would think it would be. And one of the little boys I met kind of on the way out, literally I could cradle him in my arms. I now have kids of my own. I didn't at the time. And he looked to be, I would say, 3 or 4 years old from his physical size, like his height and weight. And he was clearly in pain, like clearly, you know, suffering. And he was 7 years old. So just the physical manifestations of what happens when you're that severely malnourished. And then the next— so we kind of gathered our, you know, cried and gathered ourselves and went to the next spot that the World Food Program wanted to show us. And that was a school. Like same community, same village. And the school kids were laughing and playing and curious. Like it was the vibrancy you expect and curiosity you expect from kids. And it was extremely, you know, bare bones school. I don't even know if they had electricity. I'm sure they didn't have computers, like super basic. And we came at lunchtime. So they— the moms of the community were preparing. I think it was like tortillas and some sort of stew, and kids were lining up and getting lunch, and they were just, you could tell, just healthy and learning and vibrant. And what I quickly learned was, gosh, school feeding is just this amazing answer to not only hunger, but to poverty in many ways, because by feeding kids in school, you're getting kids to go to school and stay in school longer. And that's just what I was then able to see happen around the world in different ways. And it's just, It's what our government is able to help subsidize here in the US, which is awesome.

Right.

For free and reduced price lunch meals. So school feeding specifically became like, wow, if people just knew how effective this program is and how much it can change a kid's life by not only guaranteeing that they'll get this meal a day, but that they'll, because of that meal, often go to school, stay in school longer, you know, with that education, hopefully break out of the poverty cycle. They were born into.

Right.

And one other little tidbit, like I was in Kenya and I met— or no, sorry, it was Rwanda. And, you know, you're talking to kids and, you know, when you go to a school here and you're talking to kids, like one of the obvious, like, go-to questions like, well, what do you want to be when you grow up? And for some reason in traveling, I don't know, I've always been hesitant to ask that question in some communities and cultures, just not knowing what kids even aspire to be, like what examples they even have in their lives of what they can be.

Right. Or how culturally appropriate it is to ask that question.

Yeah, I don't know. I always shied away from it. But there was like one little girl who was like kind of like tagging along close to me the whole day and seemed just very bright and precocious. And I was able to ask her like, what do you want to be when you grow up? And— sorry. And she just like blew me away. She said, I want to be the first female president of Rwanda.

Mm.

And it just like took— I mean, you can tell it took me aback because here's this little girl. I mean, I wish you could have seen the school she's in and the community she's in. It's like dirt roads, you know, truly rural Rwanda, who obviously has like not so distant past of like a horrible genocide. And she wants to— she aspires to great things like, and it's just You know, the lack of food is so closely tied to the lack of opportunity.

Yeah.

And that's what just breaks your heart. Like, if we can just— by feeding people, by feeding kids specifically, like, you're just giving them that not only like essential thing they need for life and development and for their brains and their bodies and everything, but you're also just— it's just giving them opportunity and allowing them to like hopefully have a better chance of fulfilling those big dreams that they and their families have for themselves and their communities and their countries.

Yeah.

So another reinforcing like, gosh, school feeding is just—

yeah, yeah.

If it can help that little girl get even like an inch closer to that total dream.

Totally. You know, thank you for sharing that. That is so— and that's so significant and so like tangible. And it sounds like you walked away understanding actually there's this one thing, school feeding, But the idea that actually this food, the food element matters, the school feeding really matters, and that was maybe what you focused in on when you came back, thinking, "That's where I want to make an impact." Yeah, I think if you take any world issue or major global issues, like, whoa, and then it's overwhelming.

And then to your point, it's much easier to sort of say, "What can I do?" and walk away because it is— and I get overwhelmed too, a lot, so I understand. But yeah, if you can focus in on like one specific part of the solution.

Yeah.

I'm not saying school feeding is gonna like cure hunger, but it's definitely working. It's proven, it's helping. There's a tangible, there's a way to do it. I know the great organizations that are on the ground doing it. So how can we just get more support and more awareness?

Right.

For, for them.

Right. Right.

And that's really why I started Feed. Right.

So that makes complete sense. So then, and also it's like you already had that experience of, oh, we made the, wedding dress to give to charity. Okay. So like, explain actually to everybody what FEED actually is and what it does and how those two things, the product and the fashion, link to the, the FEED, the FEED part of it.

Totally.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think it really comes from this crux that I was at after traveling and getting to know the World Food Program. And at the same time, as I said, I was like taking design classes and doing internships in New York City and learning about the fashion industry through modeling, but also through just my own exploration and having this sort of, you know, quarter-life crisis of like, what am I going to do after college? You know, like, what's my life path and purpose going to be? And really had this kind of simple aha moment for like, oh, I could design something and use it as a vehicle to raise money and awareness to feed kids. And like, who doesn't want to feed kids? We can all get behind that. And honestly, it costs so little to do that. So that was the aha moment. And then that's kind of where I started to put the pieces together even before I graduated.

Right.

Into like how do, and even as a consumer, I was looking already for products myself to buy from companies that had, you know, a values, mission, give back, sustainability, like something that I could believe in and hold onto. And I didn't see a lot out there. And so that was part of me like, "Oh, I'll create it." Yeah, I can do it.

Right. Totally. So what was that first experience like? I know that, first of all, I would think like you have to make a bag and samples. And then how did you get into your first, you know, store, first kind of sales process?

Totally.

Yeah.

So after figuring out, yeah, how to turn an idea into like a bag spec and then a sample and getting it right, that took a while. Yeah. Right, factory and yeah, the whole backend. Then I, yeah, I was like, how do we sell this thing? And this was before Shopify, you know, I'm dating myself now. This was before you're just like, oh, easy, I'll like— Yeah, start a website. And yet I wanted the feedback to be as accessible as possible. So one store I had in mind, which was Whole Foods, which actually wasn't our initial launch partner. So I'm from Texas. And grew up loving Whole Foods and, you know, thinking what a great place 'cause you're feeding your family, you're spending money on that, why not also be feeding kids while you're doing that? So that was to come later, although I initially thought great, they'd be a great launch partner. But basically a friend of a friend introduced me to a buyer at amazon.com. Oh, you were at Amazon. And this was like, yeah, right when they were moving beyond selling books, which is now crazy 'cause they sell everything. And they actually built for us a little like landing page that had a ton of information and videos and pictures and like really brought the story of Feed to life.

Were they interested in the mission when they did that for you or?

I think they must have. I mean, they—

Or was like, oh, well, it's a new vendor and we're new at this.

No, I think they, I mean, whoever I was working with and I wish I knew that person's name to give them a shout out. Yeah. Yeah. Had a heart for what we were doing and clearly like,, you know, I guess at the time they had the freedom more to do landing pages and things that I think now probably they don't. So I had a friend, my friend coded like a very basic feed website, which just when you hit buy, linked to Amazon.

Ah, okay.

And they did all the fulfilling and et cetera, et cetera. So that's where we started for the first few years.

And I feel, I'm not sure if we've actually said, so the idea is a certain amount of money goes to, explain the model. Yeah.

Feed product we make and sell, there's a number on it, and that gives a certain amount of meals to kids around the world. So it's very— it's meant to be very tangible, very measurable for consumers. So it's not— yeah, you know, you're doing something good and you know exactly kind of the impact you're helping have.

Yeah. My new feed bag has 50 on it.

Yes.

Well done. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. That's— yeah, that's amazing. So then— so then you— okay, so then you're able to kind of feed the children and it is very tangible on each feed bag and actually it's embedded into the design. In terms of what you've just done and the impact you've just made. That's beautiful. So then tell us how, 'cause I know there's a beautiful story about how you got into Whole Foods. I think it's a very entrepreneurial story. So explain that process.

Yeah, so again, I kind of wished Whole Foods to be the first, but they weren't. Amazon was amazing. But I still was like, "Gosh, Whole Foods would be great for feed, given our mission." And before I even had a bag prototype, so when I was still in college, I was on like a school break at home, went with my dad to Austin who had some work there, like literally went to their headquarters and knocked on their door and got a meeting with someone who was very kind but was like, you know, that's great. But like we're really focused as an organization, as a foundation on obesity, not on hunger, which I was like, okay, but like I'm not asking you to change your like philanthropic mission and strategy. I just want to sell a reusable bag. Within the cost of that bag will be, you know, school meals, a donation to give school meals. Would you be interested? And she, you know, again, kind of lovely, but got it, got it, got pushed to someone else, to someone else. Then it slowly died. And that's when I was like, you know, I need to take this a step further and at least have a bag, a physical bag prototype to share and to show. I think that's like a great entrepreneur lesson I've learned over the years. Like, it's one thing to have an idea, but it's a whole nother thing to actually have a product.

A physical product.

A physical product.

Or like a picture of the website kind of thing.

Or like a product. As real and as tangible as you can make your ideas. Totally.

Yeah.

It's so much easier to sell.

It's very important. Yeah.

And even the fact that we were already selling on Amazon, I think really helped us then eventually get into Whole Foods. So fast forward, still in college, Bag prototype now finalized, very proud of it. And John Mackey came and spoke at Princeton. So I of course went to his talk and was super inspired, like weaseled my way into this little smaller dinner he did with a handful of students after, sat next to him. And I'm not an aggressive person or a salesy person, but I put my bag like next to him and positioned it.

Right.

And sort of waited like towards the end of dinner when I was like, oh, I have, you know, an idea I'd love to show you. And he was very kind and listened and then sort of passed me off to his deputy. He was there, who passed me off to another.

Yeah.

And again, I was like, ah, but I have the bag prototype this time. And I like talked to the head guy. And long story short, it took sort of graduating again, getting feed, selling at that point on Amazon. Felt more real. And then a gourmet food buyer from the Northeast region connected, you know, us to like a marketing junior regional marketing person who's like, "Oh, this is great." Like our, and at the time it's also about so much about timing as is anything in life. But at the time Whole Foods was still using plastic bags. They were just getting ready to ban plastic in their stores. So really ramping up reusable bags. It's hard to remember a time now 'cause they're a leader in this. And that regional marketing person really believed in it and took me around to 12 different Whole Foods regions, like a road show. And we like sold the bag into every region. So it ended up being this nationwide launch.

Oh, wow.

Which was awesome. And the result of which, because it was so big, was that we were able to feed or fund all the school feeding program for Rwanda for one year through the World Food Program.

Wow. That's amazing.

Isn't that cool?

Amazing.

I know.

Amazing impact. Yeah.

It was awesome.

So good. And that bag was not a purse. It was sort of a reusable bag. Reusable shopping bag.

Yeah.

With a big— and that was like your first thing where I remember seeing you all with the big F-E-E-D on there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We still have some of those, like, yeah, the heritage bigger branding. But yeah, reusable and it zips up into a little pouch, a burlap pouch.

Yeah.

So making it super functional and easy for—

Totally. —little grocery shopping. So relevant for Whole Foods. But I think when you say timing is everything, totally agree. But also interesting to note that actually John Mackey, the CEO and a founder of Whole Foods was not the person that could help you get into the stores. And that it's also about who you're able to connect with and what's the appropriate person to do the appropriate thing you want them to do.

That's exactly right. Yeah. My thought obviously going in was like, oh, he can move mountains. He's the boss. Yeah. And it often really is the like, doers on the ground who are going to actually get it done. Because yeah, he has much bigger fish to fry. And not that he didn't want it to happen or he didn't care about it, but it just wasn't a priority. And yet for this regional marketing head, it was a priority.

Right. And she really got it. Yeah. And it's also, we'll talk about leadership in a little bit, but just also what I talk about with my CEOs that I coach and the truth about leadership is when you're the big boss and you tell them, do this, Actually, it's counterproductive. Actually, that kind of power is not very helpful in getting things done inside of a company. So he probably also realized he can't just— first of all, he's not necessarily gonna champion your idea. It's like, "You're an idea. Okay, good luck. I'll pass you along." But even if you were gonna champion it, the truth is you can only use that tool like once or twice, that kind of big, "This shall happen," you know, sort of school of management and leadership. Totally. Yeah.

I could have used your— Advice 20 years ago. So at the time it's like baffling. You're like, oh, yes, but I think you like it. So like, let's just do this, right? But agreed. Like, now I understand how that dynamic works, right? Totally. And it's like, be nice to everyone. You never know who your internal champion is going to be.

Love that lesson, you know?

And you never know. So many times we've worked with someone who was in this position and now they're at a whole new company in another position. And if they remember you fondly and your company well, you know, like that opens doors. And if they don't remember you fondly, that closes doors.

Yes. Life lesson, people. I hope you're all listening. This is like gold. It's so true. It's so true because, you know, the world is small and things come around over and over again. And someone who you think may not be influential can be very influential. And so I think be nice to everyone is a good rule for many, many reasons. It's something I'm constantly realizing. Learning myself, actually. So speaking about leadership and your understanding of that now, I guess I'd love to turn to your company. And I know that you've had some expansions, some contractions. Kind of paint the picture of the journey of the company from 2007 to today and maybe some of the key leadership lessons that you learned along the way. It's a big question.

I know. I'm like, it's like 9 lives of Feed in 9 different phases and companies. Yeah. So many lessons. I mean, we've been everything from, yeah, a 3-person team, like super scrappy, everyone wearing a million hats to, I mean, always on the smaller end to a 20-person team to a team that has, you know, half consultants and half full-time and everything in between. So I think it's about being flexible and sort of, A, where is your, what's What can your business support in that time? But also, what do you really need? Yeah. Honestly, for a time, so many people told me, which wasn't not, which wasn't wrong. Okay, you need this person and that per— you need this like team of like 6 different functional areas. Like marketing. We always had marketing pretty down, but more, um, which is something that I lean into and like that's, I would say, one of the strong suits I bring to the table in partnerships, like planning and merchandising and, you know, like setting— for all intents and purposes on a day-to-day, we are a consumer goods bag company brand. We have plans to evolve beyond that, but that's what we are today. So in order to do that well, yeah, you need X, Y, and Z, and that's not bad advice, but I think sometimes that leads me, or left me as a leader feeling like, oh, I need to, I don't know, like I need to bring in all these experts. And not that those experts aren't great, but it's kind of figuring out, is that a board member? Is it an advisor? Right. Who actually needs to be full-time? Can it be a consultant? Um, and you, at the end of the day, like, you know, no one is going to like look out for your business the way you will. So true. And care. And just, I guess, be careful who you give trust to and license to, to tell you how your business should be run.

Right, right.

So that's been a journey and one of, yeah, coming into my own leadership and like feeling more confident over the years.

Yeah.

It's funny, as more— the longer I've done Feed, on one hand, the more humbled I am and the more I know what I don't know, but the easier I am to ask questions and figure out possibly, you know, the best answer, the best path forward without needing to like just fully surrender that power and license to others. Yeah, that makes sense.

It totally does. Could you give us an example of like people were giving you advice. You don't have to name names, but like people were giving you advice and you sort of did that. Like maybe you hired on a CFO or the planner or whatever, and then you realized this was not the right thing for us at the size. And then now the kinds of advice that you're getting and how you kind of think about that differently.

Okay, let me think of a specific. Yeah. Yeah. Gosh. I mean, I think it's exactly that, like feeling like we need this big team. Yeah. When in fact, not that the more smart people obviously working alongside you and doing a good job, obviously the better. Um, but you do realize how much like a mishire or, you know, hiring someone who maybe doesn't have the right skill set is like slows you down. Yeah. So I'm trying to think of— sorry. I mean, we did have a CFO for a time who kind of just couldn't quickly build us a good P&L. Like we were flying blind for years and yet paying this person's salary.

So, you know, there's things like that. I think sometimes that's also about not at the right scale. Not the right scale. Like you bring in maybe even like a big deal CFO or like a big deal executive and totally they kind of need 10 people around them to operate. And you're like a scrappy startup, right? Yes. And you need them to get their pencils involved. Yeah.

So much of the interview process, it's like you're pitching and you're selling your company. But at the same time, I've learned to really level set and be like, here's the team. Here's what your day-to-day will be like as I see it. Are you prepared? And I've definitely made that. That's a great example. I did hire someone to come in as sort of a president-level person. In the past who said, who only came from big companies. Yeah. And she very much said, right, you know, she knew our size. It was, I was as transparent as I could be in hiring her, but at the same time, and she wanted to do something entrepreneurial, but in practice that's very different than in theory. And I don't—

That's the kiss of death. I want to do something entrepreneurial. I've never done it before. Oh, great.

Yeah. Right. People think they want that. Yes. Right. And until some people thrive in that environment and others don't, and it's like, That's fine. Whoever you are, that's fine. It's just I've learned to do a better job of like really trying to, again, be as— yeah, suss out who actually wants that experience.

Totally. Are there questions? I don't want to put you on the spot, but like, are there specific kinds of questions you ask people to begin to suss that out? Or how do you kind of get your spidey sense involved so you can suss that out?

Part of it is, I mean, my best, I think, interview question or the most telling is often like, what do you love doing? Like, what if the job— because people, like, you naturally gravitate to doing what you love doing. Not to say we all don't have to do pieces of our work and job and day that we don't prefer to do. So understanding that, I think, is so telling. And if that correlates with being sort of entrepreneurial and getting stuff done and being a doer, great. But if it's someone who's like more just like on the strategic level, Not that that's not of value. I know. But in an organization our size, less so, possibly. Totally. Right.

I think it's so funny that people like to say also it's, I'm so strategic. And you're like thinking, that is not the right answer. Yeah. Right.

And I give, I mean, I've learned too over time, you give exercise, you know, like you really give hypothetical exercises and you can kind of suss out how someone thinks and That's been really helpful also in just getting inside someone's brain before you're working together.

I love that. I always tell my clients, get evidence. So it's not just like they worked at LinkedIn. That's great. It's like, well, okay, what do they do? Do they have a team of 10 people who actually did the work or was it them? You can't fall in love with their resume or even their romantic notion of wanting to be entrepreneur or in your case, a social activist or something. Totally. It needs to be someone who wants to get the job done. And you need to gather evidence that they know what that means and have done that before. Yes. Sounds like you've gotten better at that.

Yeah, I'm trying. Yeah, totally. And now what is—

if you think about the advice, because so you had 20 people at some point and now you're a small team. Tell us about the model that you're— because I know you have folks who are more like contractors or, you know, advisors. And then tell us who's giving you advice and how you're thinking about that new through your more mature, let's say, more experienced filter. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

So I would say in the last— and I think this is like COVID really propelled this model because I know a lot of other fellow like friends who are entrepreneurs and founders are leaning into this as well. Yeah. In this Zoom sort of virtual world, like it's much easier to find talent obviously anywhere, but also leaning into companies who are, you know, can, can— you definitely need like the everyday people who wake up and like are working hard for you. So I'm not saying to like replace your team tomorrow with consultants, but getting a company who's working across many other companies your size or whatever is such a value because then you're, you're, you know, paying what you would pay maybe one person or maybe less, but you're getting the experience and the breadth of knowledge of many people.

That's a really good point.

And for certain functional areas, I don't know, that's been a real unlock in the past few years. Yeah. And it's been really, yeah, helpful for us compared to having like one full-time person. Right. So it might be a) cheaper, but it also is just, I think, more efficient.

Right. That completely makes sense.

Not for all functions though.

Right. Yeah. Which functions have you— what are some of the functions you've decided that can be a consultant and what are some of the functions that you've decided should be in-house?

It's more on the planning and the finance front right now for us. Yeah. Things that are like, you know, core brand marketing, storytelling, like all that needs to be in-house because that's like very personal to the brand. And not to say there aren't great companies out there who do that really well. So I think it's always good to get fresh perspectives too.

Right.

Do occasionally on the creative brand side work with, you know, outside people or consultants. But yeah, for the most part, it's more in like the functional ops type finance planning areas.

Right, which can be sort of more almost routine in a sense. Like has to get done by somebody who knows how to do them.

Totally. And then they can say, hey, that line item is like too high. Like they know they have knowledge from other companies to say, "Look into your fulfillment. Like, maybe that's too much." And you're like, "Oh, great. Like, thank you for that perspective." Totally.

Yeah. And they're also not politically, you know, incented inside of the company to, like, build their team or to— right? They're sort of more like— they can be almost like more dispassionate in the way they even relate to the team and relate to the company. That's cool. And then are there— if you— can you think about some advice that you've gotten You know, recently, where now again, through your more, let's say, sophisticated lens, you've kind of realized that was good advice, but not for me, or I've triangulated that a little bit and I'm not really sure that that's the direction we're going to go in. It's okay if nothing comes to mind, but I'm just curious. I mean, as a tangible example, totally.

I mean, I think most entrepreneurs have always got the like, ooh, that's going to be really hard or like kind of the don't do it. Don't do it. Which you like inevitably have to ignore to some extent because you're like, but I think if these brands can exist, like we can too. Right. I mean, early on it definitely was like we were this strange business model, an anomaly in the sense that we were, you know, a for-profit company, yet a very charitable for-profit company. Right. And when I started Feed, you know, it was very much thought of like, if you want to do gutta in the world, you're a nonprofit, you're in government, like that's the areas in which you can make a difference. Or you're a business and like, that's just about growing your business and driving value for shareholders. And I was like, no, I think we can kind of like try to do the both. And I'm not saying we have done that perfectly. Like I think there's been, a lot of hiccups and yeah, major lessons learned and how to balance those two. But it can be done, you know? Right. And you're doing it. I'm doing it. Right.

And at first they said, don't do that.

It was really confusing to a lot of people who just have grown up in the model. And I think that's the brilliance and beauty of like being young and naive and like not knowing all the rules. Like, I didn't feel it didn't feel like a big leap to like say, this is our business model. Right. Which if I had been entrenched already in like bags, let's say, how they traditionally— bag companies run. Right. I think it would have been like a scarier thing to actually say, this is our model. Right. This is what we're going to do.

That totally makes sense, actually. I think that, you know, a lot of great founders, they come into a new industry and they are like super helpfully naive. Yeah. You know, like there are so many founders. I mean, I'm thinking about the founder of Truepill who came from like, you know, like they were doing some connect— they was doing some other app and they got bought by LinkedIn. And then he was like, oh, suddenly they're going to disrupt pharmacies, you know, because they didn't know it couldn't be done. Or the founders of Flatiron Health who came from ad tech, you know, and, and I, you know, I think what you're saying is that you didn't you were not encumbered by the sort of understanding of what the bag industry or frankly what philanthropy should be. Yeah. Even charity. You were not encumbered by any, like, perspective on those two industries.

Yeah, I think that was extremely helpful. Yeah. And had I been encumbered, yeah, I don't know if I'd— FEED would be around, honestly. Right. Right. And it took explaining early on to even stores and companies we want to do business with because they would often direct me to like their CSR department. Right. Which is lovely. And I want to talk to those people, but like, I want to talk to your CMO and your CFO and I want to do business with you. And by doing business with you, we will be able to give back. Right. And we will be able to sustain and grow our business. Right. So it just, it took a lot of explaining early on. I'm happy to say because the world has evolved and commerce has evolved as it has, it, we're not an anomaly. Like, it doesn't take as much explaining. Right. Which is cool. Like, that's so neat that this has been the way things have gone.

Right. Because now you have peer companies too that are doing the same kind of thing with the give back element of it.

I mean, we started right around TOMS. So like the two of us were again kind of anomalies, but like Bombas now. I mean, there's so many. Patagonia, look how cool that is. I know. So. I know, such a mark.

So you, as an entrepreneur, so there you are like, oh, well, I'm like, why can't we do this with bags? Like, I'm so naive. That's great. But then also, you know, as an entrepreneur, the entry-level position is leader. And that's certainly true for you because you were a kid out of school pretty much. Totally. So like, I'm just curious, what were the hardest elements of management that were hard for you to learn? And how did you learn them?

Oh my gosh. Still learning, by the way. Every day. Every day.

Every day, all of us.

Yeah, I've always, I think this on the strengths front, always been like a very collaborative, like servant leader mentality. Like cast a vision, especially because of our mission. That's just been what I've, that's how I operate and that comes easily. Yeah. What doesn't come as easily is like accountability and like OKRs, like setting, you know, like giving people the structure which they want. Yes. They want feedback and they want, you know, like I've learned that over time. So initially where Feed was like, la di da, like we'll tackle this together and we're just one big happy flat team. There's still a lot of that, by the way. At the same time, yeah, I really respect and appreciate the fact that like people want a hierarchy and like they want to know their goals and what structure they're working in and what's to be gained by that. So I think I've had to learn how to put in play that accountability piece for the team as well.

And that kind of structure and put that kind of goals probably. And so when you are really trying to explain to somebody, no, I'm serious, this is your job, or like, no, I'm serious, you missed this goal or whatever. Like, what does that look like for you now? Like, what have you learned to be able to say? Or how do you set up a context to be— make sure that you're more clear? Like, How have you grown, let's say, in terms of holding people accountable and clarifying goals?

And again, I have a lot of work to do on this still, if I'm really honest. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's about setting the bigger vision, which again comes easier for the company, for the path forward. And then it's like, how does that trickle down to people? And it's— Again, it's not— yes, people take their work and their performance very personally, as do I. Like, we're humans and that's like the messy part of being a human and working with other humans. Yeah, but I do think there's a way to be, yeah, kind, transparent, direct with— but also, yeah, like holding people to standards and making sure it's just understood. So it's just, it's having the courage, I think, to just have— be direct. Yes. Which is tough. It is hard for people. Maybe as a woman too, it's like extra hard for some reason. Like, been conditioned not, you know, to be a Southern woman thing as well. It's like, that's right. Conditioned to be, yeah, really sweet and nice. And but at the end of the day, I mean, ultimately, if it's an unhealthy dynamic, let's say, within the company, that will keep playing out until it comes to a head. Yeah. And I've learned to more quickly recognize when that's the dynamic and have to like address it more quickly. Yeah. Because otherwise not only does that person create— like the whole team suffers and thus the company suffers.

That's a great point. I think that's so, so significant. You know, I had Paul English on the show. He's the co-founder and CTO of— former CTO of Kayak. And he said, I have a contract with the employees, and if I let somebody around and don't kind of correct bad behavior, then I'm letting down everybody else, all the other employees. And you don't always think of it that way when you're like, I'm so uncomfortable that I have to talk to this person. But if you think about the bigger picture and the company— That's exactly right. It's so, so important.

Yeah. You take it out of just the one person and that dynamic and you put it— Yeah, you frame it that way. I love that. Yeah, that's so true.

Yeah. And so if you're speaking though about like, oh, we're all one groovy family and you're a Southern belle, right? And you're so nice. I know. But like then if you think about culture, have you been sort of deliberate about building culture? I mean, I can only imagine that there's something important there because you're on such a mission. Yeah. And then also how has that changed as the company has kind of grown and then it contracted and there's remote people? I know. I know. It's a disaster. I know. What's the journey of culture that you can share?

Yeah, we, I think culture has always been one of Feed's strong suits, which has been a joy and a pleasure for me being a part of it for 15 years. You know, my right hand, Christina, my COO, she's been with the company 13 years. Oh, great. Yeah. I've, you know, another girl, 8 years. You know, we've, we've had like long timers. That's so helpful. Which is awesome, especially in COVID where you're like, ah, we're like not seeing each other every day and you just don't have those human interactions in the same way. Totally. So to have, yeah, that year after year trust that's been built has been huge. And, you know, on the cause side, this is a pre-COVID thing. Like we would every, you know, I don't know, 2 to 3 years, we would go on a team trip to actually see the school meals, like to really bring it to life. That's so cool. Because it's one thing for me to say, oh, here's the cause that I saw, right? And the need I saw and the kids I got to visit. But it's another for people to have their own experiences. And I think that's hugely important. And I'm kind of itching to get back out there myself, but also to have my team go and experience that again, to be reminded. Right. Because I think you do need those, even though FEED is so mission-oriented on the day-to-day function, you know, like we need those reminders. To keep us grounded in that purpose. Um, so yeah, FEED is just, we call it, it's like the FEED family. Like it has been this like very tight-knit and yet as, as we have matured, um, and obviously with COVID you know, we've had to, it has shifted and not necessarily in a bad way, but I do feel like we're not in that phase where I mean, I personally in my life can't be in that phase where I can like stay in the office until like 10 p.m. and work all hours. You know, like I have a family now and it's like we've all, you know, grown up together in some ways. So it's just, it's where I think colleagues before, again, being in an office and we are mostly remote now. Yeah. We just all played a different role in each other's lives. And I'll like always look back on that time with such incredible fondness and I'm so happy, right? I had that experience. Right. But it's also recognizing like, no, this is where the company's at. This is where I personally am at now and kind of being okay with that and then creating those moments and those connections and really grounding again, feed in that purpose and kind of bigger vision to be a source for good in the world. While also just being efficient and like getting stuff done. Right, right.

Which is just so important, right? Like, yeah, we could be a purpose all day long, but we need to get stuff done. And I think it's the point, like everyone gets caught in the muck and mire of like, oh, I gotta do the spreadsheet or like, oh, that thing is late or whatever. Or like, oh, we have a problem with our supply chain, which I'm sure you struggled with when everyone was getting supply. Iroh. Yeah. So, but at the same time for you all, I mean, it's so, yeah, I do wanna just say, like, I hope it's not inappropriate to say, but with so many companies, it's easy to say, "Well, we're not saving babies here. Like, calm down." But actually you kind of are, right? I mean, like, wow. So the point is to get people out in the field so they can really understand their purpose and then you can connect to the spreadsheet or the deliverable or whatever it is.

Yeah. I mean, we always ask people, like, on their Feediversary, what's your favorite feed memory? And, you know, some of it's like, oh, this time we did— we're in the office together, this and the other. But most of the time it's been these trips. Yeah. Is the memory people reference. And I would agree with that.

Yeah, it makes no sense. Now, you talked about your own, you know, your stage of life. And you got out of college, you started Feed, life went on, you got married, and you have 3 kids now, right? Yes. And including a really little one.

Yeah, we had a COVID baby. He's almost 2. So on trend. Yeah.

COVID baby. And so how has motherhood or I want to say parenthood. I don't like to call it motherhood. Parenthood changed almost like the way you relate to the company and also personally your leadership style, if at all.

Totally. And I find, I mean, my oldest is 7, but I'm still sort of unpacking that, you know, new phase, if you will. Yeah. I think first of all, yeah, as a parent, there's a new value on my time. Again, in a way, pre-parenthood, I would go to bed on my emails and wake up on my emails. And now it's like I physically can't do that because I have to put my kids to bed and I've got to wake them up and get them on the school bus. You know, it gets just— and yeah, I'm more— I think I'm more for that reason, more direct, more efficient, more effective as a worker. Yeah, because I have more— my time is more finite. That I have to spend on feed. Secondly, I think I'm more, definitely more empathetic to like coworkers who obviously are parents as well, or any, I mean, parent, dog parents, name, have other outside of feed responsibilities. Right. Because, or work responsibilities, because yeah, we all have a life outside of work and that's important to value and recognize. And I think that's been, probably one of the great reckonings of the COVID time period is like we all were Zooming, like we literally got to see into people's lives in different ways, you know? And we have— I think we all got more empathy, but certainly in having kids, I have more empathy for that. And then secondly, I'm definitely have more— I mean, it's funny, like I started this work caring about kids But now in going on giving trips since I've had kids, like your heart just like is open in this whole different way. Yeah. Because you can more easily imagine that your kids are these kids that you're meeting. And I mean, or the— I mean, what really broke my heart on the first trip I took after having my oldest was I met a group of moms, like new moms, whose kids were malnourished. And these moms, it's not for neglect. Like they are working as hard as they possibly can. They're just living in areas where they just can't make, you know, like it's literally almost impossible to make ends meet, if not impossible. Yeah. And to put yourself in that position where unlike for my life, you care, I mean, so deeply about your kids, but especially their health. You fuss over what they're eating. Is it healthy enough? Are they getting enough food? Like even from the time they're born, are they nursing enough? Like it's all these things that you're, you know, really concerned about as a mom, as a new parent. So to then go and see that reality play out where it's like, not for lack of trying or not for lack of love, but these moms, parents just can't provide the way they know they want to and need to for their kids.

I mean, it's just a function of like where you're born. Literally. Like for them.

Yeah. They call it like the birth lottery for that reason. You know, who's they? They, the world. I don't know. The world. Yeah. Because just because it's— and how lucky am I? Like, how lucky are you? How lucky are we?

How lucky are we? So lucky. I know. I know. But I do want to just bring up— I mean, there is a contrast between the way you grew up, right? And sort of what you're seeing now. And I just think it's so remarkable. So you grew up in the Bush family and former President George Bush and Barbara Bush are your grandparents. And so you have this whole political lineage and, you know, also I would just say privileged lineage. And so I guess I wanna know, what was it like as you grew up? Was there this no— I mean, obviously political is public service. Yeah. Was there that element in your upbringing? And then also, How did you, how do you kind of think about your own birth lottery, if you will?

Yeah. Yeah. No, I feel extremely fortunate to have been born where and when I was born. Totally. I mean, grew up in the Bush family, obviously. And I don't know, political service or public service rather was just something that was never said, oh, this is what you need to aspire to or do in your life. But it clearly was the example in front of me. You know, something that I was brought up subliminally thinking, gosh, this is like what we should all aim to do. But I'm grateful that my family wasn't— there was never like my grandparents never directly said to any of us, I think even their kids, meaning like you need to do it by going into politics. Like they just wanted us to hopefully incorporate it somehow, I think, and go forth in the world and like make it our own.

Did you feel that from your, from your, from around your family? Like it's important to serve in some way?

Yes. Uh-huh. But again, it wasn't a spoken like, this is what you have to do. It was more obviously just an example I grew up around and a conversation I grew up around, like around, you know, the family dinner room table and just the example I had. And even my mom, to her credit, who not in politics, she started a charity called Caritas. So it was helping homeless and abused kids locally in Texas where I grew up. So I also grew up being like exposed through her work to what it means to give back on a more local level and, you know, going to women's shelters and soup kitchens with her that she was helping to fund. So it was also through that example. Yeah. That obviously was like an early influence. And I do. I mean, I very much believe. What is it? To whom much is given, much is deserved. Yeah. You know?

Yeah. To whom much is given. Much is expected.

Expected. Thank you. I was like, yes. There's something there. Something there. Expected. Yeah. I don't know. Just a sort of an ethos to, like, live by. Yeah. And it's on a selfish note, like, it's so gratifying to feel that you're able to make a difference and make someone's day better and, or make someone's life better. Like what a neat feeling to have.

Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, someone in my community, one of the sort of great leaders in the world, Frances Hesselbein, she died at like 107. And she, one of her expressions was to serve is to love. And I think that's, you know, you sort of get the, understanding of the feeling of being in service that is its own joy, actually. It is.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, whenever times have been tough with the business and there have been many, you know, bumps along the way, I find if I can kind of recenter myself into that, like why I started, the founding intention of service. Yeah. It just snaps me out of, you know, it snaps me out of those hard times and it gets me back to a more, I think, abundant and creative and love-filled place to continue.

That's lovely. That's amazing. You know, Lauren, you're so genuine. You're so confident, frankly. You come in here and you're so genuine and you're so down to earth. I hope that's what projects.

Well, it definitely projects that way.

And also, you were a model. So I mean, there's something about your your way that does project confidence and you really created such a successful business and life. I am curious, like, is there anything— what I ask all entrepreneurs is, like, on the show, what— have you ever experienced imposter syndrome?

Oh my God, every day. I'm like—

I guess yes. Tell us about that. People need to hear the inner workings here too.

I know. All the time. And yes. Don't believe this confident exterior, but I'm glad that's what's coming across. Yeah, totally. No, I just feel, you know, we all compare our— it's hard not to as a human compare yourself to the, you know, this company or that entrepreneur, this founder. And obviously that's only, you know, not— that's going to lead to a lot of self-doubt. And what is it? Comparison is like the greatest is the greatest robber of joy. Yeah, which is true. So I've tried to like also learn in my time as an entrepreneur to like minimize that and accept that everyone's on their own path and their own journey. And I don't know, that's more or less how I try to operate from. But it's hard again not to slip into that. For a while, actually, you know, Feed was here and there and this crazy celebrity all of a sudden was carrying Feed and like all these, like, you know, just like this crazy momentum early on. And I got to the point where I started to be like, I'd refer to myself as like Forrest Gump. Like I just like Forrest Gumped into these like crazy situations and partnerships and this, that, and the other, which I think was a way for me to like express my imposter syndrome because like behind those Forrest Gump moments was a lot of hard work and like it wasn't total luck. Like a lot is timing and luck as we talked about, but without you know, good ideas and like some skill to back it up, it's not going to come to fruition. So I've sort of learned over time to stop even internally, but also externally referring to myself as Forrest Gump.

Right.

Because it kind of belittles—

It's so self-deprecating. Yeah.

The effort and the, yeah, the heart and sweat and blood, sweat and tears that go into actually making stuff happen. Yeah.

Is there, are there any other tools that you use to combat your own imposter syndrome? Or practices? Work.

Again, work in progress. Honestly, I think it's like every day is its own day and every struggle— I live a lot. It's like there might be a shiny exterior, which is like what you need to create as an entrepreneur, right? I find though, one of the best things is I've cultivated a great community, a lot female founders, some male founders too, but founders like entrepreneurs who get those like ups and downs, you can be really real with. Yeah. And to have that community or like even a handful of people that you can call when you do feel like an imposter who can say you can just like, I don't know, snap you out of it, believe in you, but who also really truly because they are living it or have lived it themselves, understand the journey. Yeah. Of what it means to like create something and have to be out there, you know, selling it every day and uplifting your team even if you don't feel uplifted and all the things. So I feel really lucky. Yeah. To have those friends.

Yeah. A tribe is so important. Yeah. People around you. Yeah. Lauren, just two more questions. What do you wish you had known earlier on your journey? Everything. Great answer.

Yeah. No, I mean, yes and no, because as we talked about earlier, to start something and like go against the rules or the status quo, it was great to not know all the rules. You know, I think you were— it made me a little more fearless and maybe more visionary, blah, blah, blah. What did I want to know? I think probably knowing So Feed is my first and only job. Mm-hmm. And in that, I didn't have prior work experience within company. Like I've literally been learn as you go, trial by fire, learn from others.

Yeah.

So on one hand, like I think I'm a very open person and uniquely able to like seek out mentorship and like knowledge from where I can because I haven't had the formal training. In essence prior to Feed. Like I didn't go to business school. Yeah, I didn't have a job. So on the flip side, I think it's made me more open to learning from wherever, whatever sources I can learn from. But I, I think on the other side, there are times in Feed's history I've been like, oh, had I only known that, you know, like I only known how to set that up, that would have saved us so much time. Like what? Like even, yeah, what is like a production calendar look like? You know, like what? Like simple, basic kind of like Retail 101 things that we have very much in place now. But it took time and it took other people coming into the company to help teach me to build. So just some of those, like, nuts and bolts. Yeah, if you will.

Yes. Oh my God. So well said. So true. So true. You know? Yes. The nuts and bolts. And it's like, oh, I didn't know there was a thing as a production calendar.

Yeah. And you're like, oh, what an unlock.

Like, great. Wow. What else don't I know? Right? Yeah, totally. And what advice do you have for other founders as they go on their journeys from startup to grownup?

So when I started Feed, obviously I was a CEO, but I was such— it felt like too big a title to own. Yeah. And over the years, and there have been times when I haven't been the CEO, I've hired a CEO. I am now CEO. And I finally feel, like your book title, From Startup to Grown Up, like I finally feel like I've grown up enough to like own that title in a new way. And that can only come from like the many ups and downs and the many years and the many lessons learned. But I don't know, that's been a big part of my journey personally is finally owning that.

Yeah. That's so well said. And you know, somebody, Greg Gallant, was on my podcast. He's the founder of Muck Rack. And he said, "It's crazy that on my first day of Muck Rack, my title was the same as the title of Tim Cook, the CEO of Apple." Totally.

It's like, fuck, come on. I know. I know.

That's great that you feel like you've sort of stepped into that role though now.

Yeah. I mean, there's so much still to learn. I say that very humbly, but yeah, for many years I resisted even having that title. But again, to the structure and the point of like, you know, people wanting leadership, I don't know, it's nice to feel like you can own it too. I love that. I love that. I think the tribe piece is a big one, even just for like, yeah, finding humor and, you know, fun and camaraderie in the good times and the bad to have your tribe, whether it's your team, whether it's, yeah, other fellow friends and entrepreneurs, advisors. That's huge. I think too, which I've so too often done, like you You blow past the good, like the moments that should be, you should stop and celebrate and really recognize. Like it's too easy to just keep running to the next hill to tackle. And I kind of look back and I'm like, oh, I wish we had like kind of just celebrated more. I wish I personally had even just taken more time to say, wow, that was great. Like to kind of relish in those moments. So I think for founders especially, because you are like drinking from a water hose and like learning so much and trying to be so much to so many people, to also feed yourself in that way and yeah, take those moments to like take care of yourself, eh, but also recognize what you and your team have done is, is important, right?

Celebrate those moments and relish those times. Amazing. Lauren, thank you so much. Thank you for joining me today. It was fabulous to talk to you and people are going to learn so much from this. I really appreciate it.

I hope so. Thank you for having me.

You're welcome. Thanks for listening to From Startup to Grownup. If you like what you heard, give it a review on Apple Podcasts so other people can find it. And if you know of a founder or someone else who is meant to be on this podcast, drop me a line through my website, alisacohn.com.