#77: Jake Kloberdanz, One Hope Winery Co-founder — Building “Girl Scout Cookies” for adults, buil...

Welcome back. This is From Startup to Grownup. My name is Alisa Cohn, and today I'm thrilled to have Jake Kloberdanz on the podcast. Jake is the co-founder and CEO of One Hope Winery. One Hope is one of the largest direct-to-consumer wineries in the world and has proudly donated over $10 million to local and global causes. And that's why I wanted to have Jake on the podcast. Jake originally had the idea of creating a wine that gives back, what he called Girl Scout cookies for adults. Back in 2005. We talked about how he had that idea, how that idea evolved, and how he ultimately founded his company with a total of 8 co-founders. So obviously I was very curious about the dynamics of that. Jake and I also talked about how his vision and the business model have grown over the years. And since it's a brand about purpose, the importance of assessing values in his employees and also his investors. We discuss the power and importance of storytelling, the hardest experiences that Jake has dealt with in the growth of his business, and the surprising thing that Jake wished he had known earlier on his journey. I wanna give a special thanks to Lindsay and Mark Kaufman, who invited me out to Napa for a fantastic weekend and introduced me to Jake. Now, please enjoy my great conversation with Jake Kloberdanz, the co-founder and CEO of One Hope Winery. Jake, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you join me today.

Thanks, Alisa. I'm excited to join you too. Din, thanks for having me on.

I'm so thrilled to have you on, and it was such a delight to meet you through, um, Lindsay and Mark Hoffman after a beautiful weekend up at your beautiful, uh, winery. And I, I wanna— so first of all, I wanna thank Lindsay and, and Mark for introducing us and for that wonderful weekend. But also, you know, I really discovered One Hope and what you guys are doing there. So tell us about the founding story of of the whole, the whole shebang of One Hope?

Yeah, our founding story goes all the way back to 2005 and really it goes back even further than that because I have the luxury of being around entrepreneurs going back generations. My grandma was the first entrepreneur in our family and my mom followed in her footsteps and was all of my life that I can remember as well. But the start of One Hope begins in 2005 when I'm getting my first job out of college with a small little boutique winery you might have heard of by the name of Gallo. Gallo, the largest wine company in the world and still family owned and a great place to learn about wine, especially from a guy growing up in the East Bay with no family background in wine. And so I got started with them. I was going to UC Berkeley at the time, and all they had to do was offer me the sales position down in Newport Beach. And I was like, yes. So that's score. Score. Exactly. That's where my wine career started. And I kind of envisioned it being like white tablecloth, high-end restaurant wine sales. In reality, I was in the Ralphs and Pavilions and Stater Brothers grocery stores doing manual labor to get the best display spots to put my wine in there. And I was stocking shelves one day and saw a can of Campbell's Soup with a pink ribbon on it and it said, this can helps in the fight against breast cancer. And no more than like 10 minutes later, I'm stocking Yoplait yogurt. And just like that can of soup, it's totally blown out and the Dannon's totally filled up and the Yoplait yogurt, there's none of it left. And I see that their lids have this pink ribbon on it and it says, send this lid in and it donates towards breast cancer. And so that was the initial idea is I'm going to build a wine brand that gives back. And then when I saw Breast Cancer Awareness Month come and go in October, the idea kind of evolved into, I'm going to give back, but not just a month out of the year into one cause. I'm going to give back to lots of causes and year round. And had this great idea and did what most people do when they have a great idea, which is nothing. So I did that for about 6 months. And then that's what really inspired me is a phone call that I got from one of my close friends growing up. And yeah, I'll share a little bit more about that if you, if you'd like.

Yeah, of course. Well, but before you do that, when you say that, like, were you sitting there stocking shelves, you seeing these pink ribbons and thinking, I want to build a company one day that gives back every day. Or were you thinking, I want to build a wine company that gives back every day? Or what was the wine idea? Part of the process then?

It was because right after that I was going to the wine aisle and like dusting bottles and you would take care of all of your brands that were there. And so I was selling wine at the time and wine was my focus. So even though I was helping the liquor manager and store manager with, you know, all the grunt labor and stuff, which was my strength at that time as a salesperson, was to move heavy things. And I, I definitely immediately looked at that idea of giving back and at that time, temporary marketing campaign that these companies were doing and said this should be applied to the wine space because I hadn't seen any wine brands that were doing that.

I see. Got it. Got it. Okay. So take us back to that call you got from your friend.

Yeah. So, so I had this idea for 6 months, idea of building a wine brand that would give back. And the original vision was to build the adult version of Girl Scout cookies.

I love it.

That's how I would describe it. And, and so I talked to a few people about it and stuff, and I get this call April 2006 from one of my best friends growing up. And she was a guy's gal growing up. I don't even know if that's a real phrase anymore, but she hung out with all the boys and was like great at sports. And she was my first friend girl, you know, so not girlfriend, but friend girl.

Yeah.

Her name is Morgan and she called me and her voice was kind of trembling and I could tell something was wrong. And she, she went on to tell me, hey, you know, I have— I just found out I have blood cancer and It's going to be a really tough 15 weeks in front of me. I'm starting treatment this next week. And I said, well, I'm going to come see you. And I got on a plane the next day and flew home to see her, went back to my old neighborhood and to her parents' house. And, you know, there's not much at that time. I mean, I'm 22 at the time and there's not a lot of wisdom that I had to offer, but I knew that maybe I could inspire her by sharing about this idea I had that I thought could help a lot of people. And so I told her about the vision for One Hope and that I was going to start it while she was going through her chemo and radiation and that we were going to check in with each other at the end of every week and let each other know, like, kind of what kind of momentum we'd gained that week or not gained, you know, and the tough stuff. And 15 weeks later. Well, so the next day I fly home and I incorporate One Hope. So that's April 2006. And over the next 15 weeks, I find a winemaker to make our first few wines. I find a winery that'll let me make them there, and I file all the paperwork to get a winery license, and I file it for my parents' house in Fremont, actually. So So that still was a bonded winery for a while. But, and by the end of those 15 weeks, Morgan was cancer-free and she has been since then. And she's got 3 kids, she's a teacher, she's doing great. So it was a happy ending to that story, but it also sparked this great company and allowed us to chase our purpose. Yeah.

Well, that's ama— that's amazing. I'm so glad Morgan's okay. I have to say that would not be my reaction. I mean, I understand that you had something kind of in your head. I can understand flying home to see your friend. I guess I'm just really curious what was in your reaction that you said, I know, was it like, we're gonna do this together. I'm gonna do my hard thing and you're gonna do your hard thing. Is it, was that what it was? Or what were you thinking when you said, let's check in with each other?

Yeah, I was raising money for, um, breast cancer, AIDS, and autism. And I felt like building a brand that was giving back and serving causes that were in maybe in different but kind of parallel zone to what the cause that she was being touched by would be exciting for her. And it did. It motivated her all the time. She thought it was cool. And to this day, she still texts me and is like, I'm so proud of One Hope. I'm so proud of what you guys have achieved. Things like that. When we hit milestones or celebrate our anniversary and stuff. And so, you know, it wasn't until about 9 months later that I'm picking up the first wine in a U-Haul truck and 3 pallets of it and driving it down to El Segundo, California, to load it up in a public storage unit and start selling out of the back of our car. So there's a bunch of other twists and turns, but it was really like the beginning of it and the first exciting kind of 100 days of starting the company. And I think it kept Morgan's mind on, you know, other things for us to talk about. But she would let me know an update and it was just a way of us having a cadence and checking in too. I was inspired to nourish the future, you know, that which has been our North Star the entire time. We just used to take more words to explain it to people. And I, when she called me and she had told me that and we were talking about it, it set in that Wow, life is short, you know, and it, it scared the shit out of me, you know?

Yeah.

And at the same time, it made me realize life is short and it made me courageous and it made me want to be brave and live it. And so that was— she was inspiring me by what she was going through. And I think she knew that. And so, yeah, maybe it is a different reaction than some people would have that I was I was inspired by my purpose and found my why, and it connected to a lot of other things that, you know, led up to it and other milestones in my life when I look back now.

Yeah, well, I can— a lot of entrepreneurs, many, many founders, they have this idea like life should be like this, or here's this idea that should be in the world. Or they might think, hey, there's a great market for this and nobody's doing it. I want to do this. And some entrepreneurs, founders, plenty of them are like, if I do this, I'm going to make a lot of money. And then, you know, they can do whatever they want. It sounds like your why was very purpose-based. And I'm just wondering, where did that come from? That's just very unusual to be like, I know I wanna, you know, really contribute to, you know, cancer and other kinds of causes.

I think it, it came from my grandmas. Both of them gave back in their community in a way that I observed just through osmosis growing up. And then my mom. I have some core memories of my mom giving back and also just being really in service to our community. And so first and foremost, I got to observe that in some of the most important people around me. And then I started volunteering in high school and built a couple of schools down in Mexico and during spring break. And I, in college, I became our social chair and our philanthropy chair my last 2 years in my fraternity. And so I combined the 2 budgets and I— every party we threw was a fundraiser and allowed us to throw more parties. And we also raised more money than the entire rest of the fraternity system that year through our philanthropy. And I got to go to Oakland Children's Hospital and drop off that big check with a bunch of the guys from our house. And they took us to the pediatric cancer area of the hospital and showed us how we were impacting people's lives. And that was a big turning point for me in my life too, when I would— I had just started business school. I was going to a class that was about, about integrity in businesses at the time because Enron was just going down and there was a bunch of interesting things happening at the same time. And I— and so they made all of us go to business ethics that summer before starting business school. So those two things were kind of intersecting and I said, I want to build a business that has purpose, you know, woven into the fabric of it. And I also wanted to build a business to make an impact too. I knew that I wanted to build a business when I went to my mom's office when I was about like 8 or 9 years old. And one of the women who worked for her for a long time came up to me and said, your mom has changed my life, like my whole family's life. We have a home because of her and just really impacted me when she had that talk with me. And it was the first time I remember really putting it together that it's not just like my mom's the boss, you know, but she's a leader and she's empowering people to have better lives by, by building something meaningful and a good culture at her company.

Yeah, we're so imprinted by what we see in childhood. That's really amazing. What business was your mom in, by the way?

She was in marketing research. So my grandma started a marketing research company way back in the day, right after my grandpa had returned from his second term in World War II. Yeah, she would bring the women together in her neighborhood and have them test out cleaning products and home goods and things like that and would take down that information. And she's just calling it research at the time, but ultimately became called market research. And then my mom did it as well on consumer products initially. And then ultimately, the business she started with her longtime partner, this woman Mimi, they ended up doing it for video games and hardware and software. And so I got to grow up kind of introduced to the latest and greatest technology, computers, video games because of doing, you know, test studies with her group and ultimately working for her.

So That's so fun. That's really fun. That's amazing.

It was really cool watching her behind a two-way mirror too, and doing a focus group and like seeing how people interact with brands and how they connect with certain brands and, and packaging and things like that. And so my love for marketing and brand and the way that brands connect with people came from that as well as probably a lot of my interest in technology as well, which plays a, a major part in One Hope's business.

So, yeah. Oh, I see. Well, and we wanna definitely get to that, but you, you have this idea, you have the wine made. That's a whole other story. I mean, I can only imagine if anybody said to themselves right now, what would they do to start a wine company? There must be a, a journey to that. And we'd love to hear a little bit about that. But then you ultimately, if I'm not mistaken, you have 8 co— there are total 8 co-founders that started the business and there are 6 still in the business. So, How did you get from, from there, from this idea to, you know, founding the business with a bunch of people?

Yeah. So, you know, April 2007. So that was April 2006 that I incorporated the company. By April 2007, I'm driving those first 3 pallets of wine down, loading up in a public storage unit. I, I, I've left Gallo by that time. I share the news with a handful of other people. There are 4 men, 4 women in our kind of recruitment class that year. And all of them over the course of, you know, a small amount of time leave to come in and serve this purpose with me and chase this vision. And it was really an interesting phenomenon for all of us in our early 20s to take that leap together and start without, without much money in the bank to do it and just saying, hey, we have to immediately hunt to eat and get out there and sell. So it was 4, 4 men, 4 women, like I said. And today there's 3 and 3 of us. So, and 4 of us are day to day with the company and 2 of them are advisors and doing one, working on another business that kind of developed over the course of the past years. And, and one of them taking a little time off because she's got 3 little ones under 5. So.

Yeah, got it. So you're saying that in your class, in your class of sort of people who started in the wine business with you as wine salespeople, you said, hey guys, I'm going to start my own thing, see ya. And one after another they all said, oh, by the way, can we join you? And also, wasn't Gallo kind of mad at you for poaching their entire class?

Yeah, it, um, I didn't like go out of my way to poach the entire class. I think what happened is, uh, few of us. I invited a few people to, you know, start it with me and co-found it. And, and once it got out, a couple of others that were there were like, hey, I want in on this too. And so it naturally— it was, it was more organic than that. But yeah, they were a little annoyed. I got a couple calls from them.

So. But ultimately everybody sort of came together. I'm sure it all worked out.

Yeah, they actually full circle, Gallo in their book, Gallo, Be Thy Name, were mentioned as the second to last chapter. And it's like in a very positive light about how people leave them and go off and start these other great wine brands.

Yeah, that, that's quite beautiful. Like a breeding ground for, you know, great things. So what kinds of conversations, if any, did you have with this frankly unwieldy group of co-founders? I mean, you know, one co-founder, two co-founders, maybe a total of four co-founders. It is a lot of people. What conversations did you have to make sure you're on the same page?

Ooh, probably not enough early on. No, I, I'm definitely— because all of us are generally, I would describe us as really nice people and maybe some of us even people pleasers. Having the tough conversations and the honest conversations was hard. We hadn't developed those communication skills on how to be really candid with each other and still communicate in a respectful way. And also it takes time to build trust to have those kind of conversations.

Yeah.

Over time we learned that breaking near-term rapport is how you build long-term trust, and it's so important that you're willing to do that and you're willing to sit in that kind of uncomfortable tension sometimes. I, we call it hugging the cactus sometimes, like taking on the conversation that nobody wants to have, but it's much healthier. And so, yeah, early on I'd say we weren't great at it. And at the same time, we were running off of hope and we were running off of excitement and adrenaline and all that stuff. So that took us a long ways and everybody was excited about going out and representing the brand and believed in it. And so that, that carried us in the early days and it would definitely wasn't our, our business acumen, our communication. I do, uh, believe that people really trusted me as a leader, um, to jump in, and I think that was a common thread. And I think, uh, we— there was a lot of trust, uh, amongst the team, but not necessarily as much as I would have liked amongst all the co-founders with each other. But I did always feel like they trusted in me and they trusted the vision and, and my ability to lead us.

So, oh, okay, well, that's very interesting. When you— so you just gave me two phrases that are very interesting. Short-term, like, break short-term rapport in order to have long-term respect, and then hugging the cactus. So, well, did you coin—

or break the short-term rapport, uh, build, uh, long-term trust?

Oh, long-term trust. Yeah, okay, yes. I was trying to do the alliteration, but yes. Yes. And I guess I'm wondering, did you come up with these phrases or was this like you did some coaching or some like program that helped you with these phrases? Like, those are very interesting.

That, that's actually a great question. Those phrases have been taught to me by different coaches and I have done coaching in my life ranging from what I believe the greatest rugby coach of all time, and at least in the US, a guy named Jack Clark at UC Berkeley. An amazing coach that's built a national championship machine, right, all the way to business coaches. And I've gone to Coaching and Leadership Academy as well. And so, yeah, those are phrases that I picked up. Other things for as far as on leadership that I've heard over time is the most simple and concise definition of leadership is making those around you better and more productive. And I had never heard it described that way, you know, and when my, my coach told me that, I said, oh, that is what leadership is. And so I'm really focused when you're trying to focus on leadership of what are you, how are you impacting the people around you? And I don't think people necessarily think of it that way always. So there's things like that that I had picked up from people, but it's, you have a good year for kind of noticing that those are phrases that I've, I've learned over time.

Yeah. Well, I also think, and I'm going to get into this a little bit later with you about you obviously being a natural storyteller and I want to talk more about, you know, sort of language. But before we get there again, like what were the markers when you said, oh, I wish we trusted each other more to be able to, or that the team, the sort of the co-founders, to have difficult conversations and we should have had more than we had. Was there like a, a moment where, or could you, could you describe a moment where things kind of went off the rails because maybe you didn't have those conversations or you recognized, wow, we don't have enough trust inside of the team? Like what, what were the markers to you that like, mm, we could have done better on that?

Oh, wow. The, the biggest one, The big ones that stand out to me are actually in the early days are the two co-founders that ultimately needed to leave the company. One of them I probably knew within the first 2 months, and it took me 2 years to have that conversation. And when you don't have enough conversations leading up to the ultimate conversation, people are surprised, right? They're just shocked. And even when you do, a lot of times people are surprised. And, and actually our, our other co-founder that's no longer with the company, it was 10 years in. And sometimes, you know, cultures evolve. And so it— what was right for the company at one point is no longer. And so I think that's why it's so important that you're having regular communication and regular cadence because things don't just sit static in a business. You're, you're changing as a business. The team is changing, who's trying to build the business. The market is changing around you. And so these are all things moving in different directions. And so it's really important to have a direct conversation about where people are relative to the rest of that context, where people are relative to where the business needs them. Where they are relative to where the environment is and the rest of the people around them. And I think that most of the conversations early on weren't the ones that needed to because the accountability at the time wasn't as high as it is now in the business. But we were just kids. Yeah, at the time. And, and, and we didn't have as much responsibility and accountability other than to one another, you know, none of us were married, none of us had kids. Today, the 6 of us have 12 children and they're all married and have great partners. And, and we have a— I have another one on the way in December, and my partner Brandon has one as well. So we're going to have 14 kids. So I think that the stakes weren't quite as high and the need for accountability wasn't quite as high. And so And I think that a lot of times it was actually the little things. There's not like these big blow-up things other than the couple that I told you about of like, ultimately that person wasn't right. And you take responsibility when you come to that point and say, hey, this didn't work out. Was it them? Was it me? It's probably, it's probably both of you. It's like the relationship broke somewhere along the way. But a lot of the times when these things come up, it's not that big blowout. You know, um, firework. It's little stuff building up, building up, and then yeah, you get to a breaking point.

Yeah. And then you don't address it, you don't address it, and then it gets to a breaking point because you don't address it when it's small.

Yes, that's right.

Yeah.

And they were always— when things weren't working, it was always about accountability and communicating about, uh, expectations and, uh, and verifying and clarifying, like what we were expecting from each other. And a lot of times we weren't doing that. Like, hey, I'm hearing you say this. Am I hearing you right? That's actually— it's a very simple thing to do after somebody shares with you, because a lot of times you realize, oh, they heard me totally different than what I was trying to communicate. And so that was where most of the breakdowns were. And some of that starts because the people you don't draw energy from communicating with that person and you, you're not like looking forward to calling them when you're hopping into a long drive, you know, and when the communication is lost, then the whole, the thing breaks down always, 'cause communication and trust go hand in hand.

So true. So true. So what processes do you have in your company right now that helps make sure that you keep up communication, that you keep consistent cadence so that you know, you make sure things are on track.

We, we use the OKR system. So objectives and key results and tying what we're trying to achieve to very specific and metric-driven stuff. We do— we, we have the 24-hour rule where if you share something that's like heated or gossipy or whatever, you have to tell that person and communicate with them within 24 hours. Of when you opened up and vented to somebody else. Oh, I think people use that with, you know, take that with a grain of salt. I don't think everybody is like, hey, I just told you this and I'm actually going to go and tell that person that. But I usually challenge people to it. I say that's kind of our commitment within, especially within our executive leadership team, is like, if you have something that you want to tell me as the CEO, then you better be willing to gain the courage once you've thought through it And I think it's important to vent sometimes because it's people reaching out to be coached in a situation where they're frustrated or something like that. So you can either pile on as a— if you want to be a friend, then you can pile on and stuff and play that game and run that racket with each other. But if you want to be a coach and a leader, then you interrupt that conversation and you say, okay, and how are you contributing to this? One, like, turn it and say, how are you contributing? Are you? If it's all them, it's rarely all them. And then you have to— now you have to figure out how you want to frame this up and communicate with them in a candid and honest way.

Yes, 100%. And I think that's so— I think it's a really powerful point that people think, oh, venting or maybe talking behind someone's back is bad. Not necessarily. It's actually helpful to frame your thoughts. And as you just said, get coaching and I think also expel the emotion. And then the notion of like you having to go follow up, but also own yours. Once you kind of start sort of expel that energy, you can recognize that you have some complicity in this dynamic as well. And also you haven't told them.

Yep. And you have to extend that olive branch, one, to come prepared to acknowledge like, here's how I'm probably contributing to this because it's one, it's disarming. So it's a smart way to communicate. But two, it's an authentic and honest way and it shows that you really thought about it when you start approaching the conversation. I think people are willing to listen more when they know that you're willing to also commit to a better relationship together. And it's not just asking them to change, but it's a two-way commitment.

Yeah, totally. So we then go back in time. So you're 8 co-founders turned into 6 co-founders, but nonetheless, there you are building the business. And then you said something else very interesting. So you have your purpose and there's like a giveback experience of it. You're obviously, you know, making wine. Obviously, that's part of what— that's your business, what you're doing. And everybody came from the wine sales business, but not really the wine business. So I wanna hear like how you kind of cracked into the wine business and then what's this about Girl Scout cookies? Cracked. Okay.

Okay. Yes. We only knew like 1% of the wine business at the time.

Right.

How to sell wine.

Stocking the shelves.

Yes. Stocking the shelves and how, how to sell wine at a big grocery store, a big box grocery store where the wine kind of just showed up at the back gate, you know, and there's so much to getting wine all the way to the point where it's arriving at the store and all the supply chain on-premise and hotels learning direct-to-consumer. Today, 4 out of 5 of our sales channels are direct-to-consumer. So we were in only one channel originally, which was into the traditional what's called the three-tier system where you sell to distributors, the distributor sells to the retailer, and then the retailer sells to the end customer. And in that model, the distributor and the retailer take about $0.60 on the dollar. And so we were like, hey, this channel alone is not working for us because we're not big enough to give away that much and we don't collect a relationship with our end consumer. We're going through two other layers before it gets to the end consumer. And so I will come back to that. But from the beginning, our model has been to build in some to give back to the community. So since the very beginning, it's always been core to the company. It started out with 50% of profits. We quickly realized that it is really hard to be profitable in the first step. So yeah, a wine company. So we then started to build it in as a percentage of our gross profits and, and then it ultimately evolved evolved into becoming simplified to where 10% is given back to the cause of the customer's choice and 10% is given back to the cause of the host choice. So people host wine tasting events all around the country now raising money for their cause. So it can be their breast cancer walk or their kids' school or their pet adoption clinic or things like that. And then also all the— any customers that buy wine there, anytime they come back, if they're in the wine club or anything, they can direct their purchase towards their cause of choice ongoing. And so people have donated to over 40,000 nonprofits.

Wow.

To you this point. And when I talk about Girl Scout cookies, you know, this community of wine reps that puts on wine tastings all over the country to try to bring our kind of Napa tasting room experience to people's homes and to pop-ups and businesses and things like that. You know, I thought about us building Girl Scout cookies in the form of the product that kind of had a giveback built into them. I, I didn't until a few years in think about the actual Girl Scouts and the, the local entrepreneur, the cause entrepreneur. And so we'll oftentimes refer to our wine reps as cause entrepreneurs, people who are building a little business locally and giving back to causes that are important to them in the community, empowering people to give back. By buying a great product. And so that's why, you know, I grew up with my mom being the, the head of the Girl Scout troop for my little sister. And she always had tons of Girl Scout cookies in the garage. And I came to find out they sell $1 billion of these things every year and they fund, you know, little girls being empowered with this, their initial feeling of entrepreneurship and, and the ability to sell. And even more than that, the ability to connect with people, to share what they have to offer, right? And that takes a certain level of courage. I got that early on doing surveys in the mall for my mom starting at 12. That was my first job. And it, and it had that Girl Scout cookie effect for me. You know, once you can get someone to stop and do a survey for 5 minutes, you can sell anything to people.

So I was going to ask you how you built your sales skills, but now I know.

Well, yeah, I was a quiet kid, you know, for— there was a phase where my mom was actually worried about me because I was a late developer as far as speaking and talking. And then she said I finally started talking and then she couldn't get me to shut up ever. Yeah, I had to switch at some point. But I was also— I was an awkward kid. I was really into math and numbers and things, and I didn't really find my voice until I started to kind of go into high school is really when I felt like I became a leader in my voice. And a lot of that had to do with gaining confidence of getting bigger and becoming a better athlete and working really hard at some of those things. But yeah, I think my ability and comfort of talking to people really started to evolve when I first started working for her.

Yeah.

Taught me how to approach people and disarm them a little bit. And it's helped because I'm a bigger guy and have a loud voice and stuff. And so that can be intimidating if you don't have control over it.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, the idea of one definition of charisma is power and warmth. And so power in part is also just like physical size and also maybe confidence in how you express yourself. And then the warmth is what you bring to sort of temper that. So that people really feel attracted to you. And I must say, when we were out there that weekend, you know, you kind of swept into the farmhouse. We'll talk about the farmhouse in a minute, but you swept into the farmhouse and you took control and you gave us a tour. And there was a lot of, you know, it was clear that you were really comfortable owning the room. And it sounds like that was not true. That was, that was an evolving skill from you as you kind of gained in confidence starting in high school and later. Is that right?

Yeah, it was definitely developed, not like born into me. I think, you know, who knows? It's— I think a lot of things are actually both genetic and environmental. So maybe I was destined to feel comfortable speaking to people, but I took public speaking and really did work at it in high school. And I really did work at being able to communicate better to people because I wanted to be able to. There was like this want in me as a younger kid. And at the same time, I didn't, I didn't find that voice to actually do it until later on. And I feel like a handful of things pushed me to do that. Sports definitely helped me find my voice because I was a goalie in soccer. So you kind of have to yell out directions to people and stuff like that. And I put myself in the positions and stuff where you needed to use your voice a lot more. And so those those things pushed me to have to bring it out to do the job, you know? And, and yeah, like I said, I started to go out and, and do surveys and then ultimately grew into doing that and running teams of people. And usually the best people to get a survey in a mall are older women like grandmas, because people are less likely to turn them down if they come up and say, do you want to take a survey? You know, And so, but I started kind of training and developing these people on how to ask that the right way and disarm people right away and manage expectations with how much time it would take and what's— and what we have to offer them for it. What's the benefit? And get to that right away. And so those— after doing this in repetition over and over again, I started to see what people reacted to and what the difference was of somebody shutting me down or not even looking at you and like turning the other way and dodging you. Versus what is it that invites people? And I haven't had somebody talk about it the way you just did, of like, you know, the confidence combined with the warmth. And I, I do think that that, that combination is really important.

So, mm-hmm. Yeah, it sounds like something you continue to invest in, in yourself, that you continue to invest in communication skills and your confidence skills.

Yeah. Yeah, I think so. And then they get reaffirmed too, because when you go and do it and you feel good about how you presented and look, I study myself all the time. I'm my biggest critic, so I'll go and do a talk and people will be like, that was great and high five and stuff. And I know in the back of my head that was like, that was like a 7 out of 10 or something. I could have been more prepared. I could have done better. And that's okay. I, I, so I have a standard for myself and I don't always hit my mark on it. You know, I'm not like Simone Biles of, of it, right? But I'm, I'm trying to be, you know, I'm trying to think about it that way. And only so many people are like gifted to be the greatest of all time. But you're trying to, you're trying to chase that, you know?

Totally. Yeah. So then if we come back to sort of your overall business model, so obviously you, you sell wine, right? You make wine, you sell wine, you've got a bunch of different lines. And then you also have what it sounds like is you have people, you know, probably ambassadors, you may call them. I'm not sure what you call them, but like there are people who then try to do wine experiences for friends in other parts of the world, not just Napa. And then you also have probably a subscription of some sort. Many, I think that many wine, you know, um, sellers do have that. And then you also have the farmhouse. So am I missing anything? And kind of how do those things all tie together? And is this unique in the wine world?

So, yes, it is unique in the wine world. It's— we call it an omnichannel approach in that we have multiple channels, how we connect to people. And we also have a portfolio of wines that's everything from like a— what I consider affordable luxury. So like $25 to $40 price point to, you know, $250 plus bottles of wine, very limited production, really special. Steph, I love all of our wines and I'm proud to have any of them at my own dinner table. So that's kind of my baseline, my standard for the wines that we sell. And we, so we share wine and give hope through our, what we simplified the name, we call them wine reps. They rep our brand, they rep our cause and purpose and We have thousands of them around the country and we empower them with a platform that includes software that allows them to run their business, their, their own dashboard and business management dashboard, their own e-commerce site and their own app and a bunch of other tools that we provide for them. We have a channel where we sell direct to companies, and do corporate gifting. And we also, um, still sell in thousands of restaurants and hotels around the country as well. Um, so those are two other distribution channels. And then of course you can buy us at onehopewine.com, um, direct off our website as well.

Mm-hmm.

Our, um, our property is a, uh, separate real estate and hospitality company that was created 7 years after starting One Hope. Which is really brand distribution technology company, and we've built brands underneath it and we built distribution to these different channels and we've built technology and software to power it. When I realized that we need to have a flagship property too, in a sense, a place for this brand. And if we want to be the most innovative, iconic and impactful wine brand of this generation, which is now our vision from the adult version of Girl Scout Cookies to building the most innovative, iconic, impactful wine brand of this generation. That iconic part, um, hey, we need to build something really special and in a region where the greatest wines in the country and some of the greatest in the world have come out of. And so Napa was kind of the obvious spot to look at. And at the same time, I had committed to previous investors, I'm going to build this asset-light brand distribution technology company. And this was like the most asset-heavy thing you could do, buy a piece of land right in the heart of Napa. And so I created a new company. One Hope was the first seed investor in it, and it's still the largest owner today out of sweat equity and started building a community that is now over 100 people, ranging from some of the greatest athletes and musicians of our time to great visionaries and entrepreneurs to really nice families and philanthropists that have all come together to help us build this one-of-one vineyard destination property that has our flagship winery and then also has a private home on the property. And that home is literally and figuratively the home to our brand at One Hope. And that pro— the, the winery is our flagship winery and it sits on our state vineyard. And it's a really, really special place. It allows us to sell some of our nicest and most elevated wines. It allows us to build a community and host people in person and bring them together around wine. Every single layer of the company serves our mission or empowers our mission, which is sharing wine and giving hope. So our, our mission serves our purpose to nourish the future every day. And, and we do it at our own property and we do it in people's homes all over the country. And we do it through those other channels as well. We do have one more fun kind of distribution channel that we're opening up in the coming year that I can share about that brings the Napa tasting experience to people's hometowns and our location-based experiences that we have started.

Is this breaking news? Are you going to break news here, Jay?

Oh yeah, actually, it is breaking news.

Here we go.

It's an urban winery and pickleball clubs because Pickleball, stop it.

Of course, of course. Pickleball Hope. Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah, our founders all really like pickleball and we love wine and we play it at the property and we figured that combination really works and it's a great sport. It's the third largest and the fastest growing in the US and it's the largest team sport because it's behind biking and running. And so it's cool. You play it, play it as a team. There's 36 million people playing it regularly right now.

And it's growing every day.

Yeah. And we figured let's try to take our food and wine experience that we have in Napa and bring it to more parts of the country. So we're going to test our first one this next year out of our warehouse down in Orange County.

So, oh my God. Wait, so what's the, what's the thing? So like, you're, how does pickleball and wine What's the offer?

The offer is come down and you can play pickleball and other fun things like cornhole and ping pong and things like that. And you can also stay and hang out in our wine garden. That's a really cute tasting area and get food that's, you know, Napa tasting room level food out of a food truck that we're, we've developed our menu up in Napa and I'm going to bring it down there from our chef on property. And so food, wine, activities, having a lot of fun. And yeah, I think, I think people who like pickleball and like wine will love this place and like good food, you know.

So yeah. And there's also a, there must be also a sort of a giving back component to this as well.

Oh yeah. Every bottle that's purchased and people who sign up the wine club there, it'll work the same way our other channels do where 10% of the sales is going back to your cause of choice. And I want to be able to do things in the local community where we can host nonprofit events and things like that, like we do at the Crocker.

I think that's so cool. I mean, I'm just really— I'm just really reflecting. It's a very tight business model where you get a lot of things going on that all feed each other and that the essence also is sort of at its core is that people can all feel good about it because of its purpose-driven nature.

Yes. Yeah. I think it's in every, it's in the product itself and it's in every, every distribution channel that we sell through has it woven into it.

Yeah. So, uh, obviously culture and values are important to you and, and obviously, right, you know, you should, a lot of founders I coach, just being super honest, I'll say, so do you have values? They're like, yeah, yeah. They're like, you know, and which is great. And I understand that they're not fully connected to their values yet. And that's important. And that can be a journey sometimes. But not you. You're like, you know, wake up at 3 in the morning and you understand your values and you're like ready to spout them off. And I'm just curious, like, how do you make sure that as your business matures and you have all these different channels, these different people at various different levels of employment within your company, how do you make sure everyone stays on the same page about values and what problems have you come across in doing that?

That's a, that's a really good question, Alisa. The first thing is getting a framework that's as concise as possible. So when I'm introducing the brand or we're just a new teammate or we're onboarding somebody, Our purpose is 3 words: to nurse the future. And it starts with them understanding what we mean by that and also the space it gives— it gives you on the other side to decide what that means to you, because there's a lot of ways to nurse the future and our platform gives you the ability to do most of it. I think that a vision statement like building the most innovative, iconic, impactful wine brand of this generation and You know, people can butcher the order of those 3 I's if they want, and it's the same statement. They, as long as they understand, like, kind of the tenets of what we're trying to realize over the, over the longer future. And then day to day, our mission's forward: share wine, give hope. So it's like giving people a really clear and concise framework, first off. And then when we talk about like who we are, we're built on hope and rooted in purpose. And that statement's important. To us when we think about how we define leadership and mental toughness. There's definitions of those things, mental toughness, mental strength, which is making the next best decision regardless of the circumstances that you're in. And when we think about values, two of them are in our name. So unity and, and hope and being hopeful. And so we— it's easy for people to remember that. And then authenticity and empowerment. And so, and, and some follow-on of what we mean by each of those. Authenticity moved into our value structure a while ago in place of honesty. And it's not like we stopped saying we want to be honest with each other, but there's also like there's a vulnerability to being authentic. And it takes being honest, it takes being vulnerable, it takes connecting. So there's even more kind of heaped in there. And I think all the best brands in the world are authentic. So I think talking about those things and defining them really clearly for everybody and then showing them with the way that we act to one another and what we show, yes, externally, but also how we service and serve each other internally is really where the rubber meets the road because it's easy to like write those things on the wall and and, and even say them, but it's harder to follow them and to, to serve our purpose every day and to walk the walk with our mission every day. And so when people see you doing them, it reinforces them. And then if you've got them concise and simple, then people are clear on what the vision is. They're clear on what our North Star is and our purpose. And those things end up being what guide you. They, they guide you sometimes on who can't make the journey with you just as much as they guide you on who can and what not to do, just as much as what to do every day. Yeah.

Are there any, you know, sort of stories about what not to do or, you know, who can't make the journey that you could— that you could talk about? Because I think we learn so much just from setbacks. And I'm just curious if, you know, it's— it sounds beautiful. And again, having experienced that with you in person, I really know that you believe it and own it, but it's never perfect, right? So what are some of like the, the difficult moments that helped you recognize and maybe learn a lesson?

Well, I've never let go of somebody too soon.

Okay.

Which is okay. I think that that's the side to err on in life. And I believe in erring on the side of generosity in general. So, and I'll probably continue to do that. And when I miss, I'll kind of miss long versus short. And when I mean, it does go back to as those things developed and we started to respect them more and say, we're going to actually uphold these, these aren't just like nice things to say. Then the pressure on, hey, this is not working out the way that you're talking to your peers. It's that when you manage, you manage down, you manage side to side, and you manage upwards. And if you can only do one or two of those things, it doesn't work. You know, you have to be able to do all three of them if you're a leader, if you're in a position where you don't have to be a leader, we'd love for everybody to be a leader, then you really just need to manage up, meaning you're— you don't have anybody reporting to you. You know, I, I believe that when I've hit moments where it was time for somebody to go their separate way, it was because one of those directions wasn't working. And you had— you've had the conversations and I've had this before. You have them, you're very— you get more and more clear about them. You get more and more clear about what the repercussions are going to be if it doesn't improve. And then you ultimately get there at that point. Now, in the early days, you'd kind of just bypass all the steps along the way and then it just like come out in a big old like word vomit, you know? And then—

Yeah.

Yeah. And so You know, I've had, I've had times where people thought we were building a different company than we were building. They thought that because of the way I was communicating and maybe, and maybe I thought we were building a different company that at the time, because of the way I was communicating, I realized, oh, this person, you know, thinks we're building purely a technology company and, and we're, we're actually building a brand and something bigger than just that technology. The greatest technology companies are brands and they are platforms usually. And so, you know, we're building a platform for giving and a platform for selling wine and sharing wine and giving hope. And at the end of the day, also embracing like first and foremost, we are building a wine brand. And like right now it relates back to building a wine brand and a wine community. And so I think it's easy when you, when you aren't giving good direction for people to get off course. And so whenever I found that that's the case, I've tried to say, well, how am I contributing to this? Where's the confusion coming from? And I wasn't always mature enough to do that. So that's why it was more like this person's driving me crazy and like, I can't believe they just don't get it. And the, the other difficulty of it is that when you build a culture and you build departments, you have this overall company culture, but then it kind of does work like the federal and state system is like you want that, you want the other departments to have their own like subculture and to hang their hat on certain things in the organization. But what starts to happen is you start to have these teams that are like thinking about their individual team or department really, and not the overall team and the brand first. And so one of the things I've had to realize and reinforce more and more is like brand, team, then individual. And it's like that's the, the, the order that serves the individuals the best ultimately is if the brand and team are healthy is like should serve you. But culture in today's business world, not everybody comes with that mindset. And so trying to reinforce that as you grow and people are less and less connected to the purpose and maybe the founding values and framework of what got us here, they come in with an individual type of a mindset of like, how does this company serve me? And usually that's been where the most difficult, the most difficult employee relationships have been is when people are not in line with our purpose and they're, they're very much about themselves and individual. And I would say that number one characteristic of people who don't work out with me and with our company are selfish people. And I've seen it before, like some, some people are selfish and driven a lot by personal result. They're driven a lot by personal results. They're amazing contributors. And so there's this trade-off and it's like, how, what's your threshold for selfishness relative to how talented somebody is? And I think Alex was the one that said no brilliant jerks, you know, and I, I've met some brilliant jerks in my days and I've, and I've tolerated it. And culture, you know, defined as simply as possible, is what you tolerate in your organization.

Yeah. Now, Jake, can you— there's something going on with your hand or your microphone that's causing a little bit of static.

Sorry. Yes. Is that okay?

Much better. Yeah. I don't know what happened, but much better. I think that was— we don't have to do that over. That was fine, but I just wanted to prevent that. Yeah.

Sorry. And what, what I, what I ended with there, I think, is like my biggest learning along the way is that culture is what you tolerate in your organization. And it's— that is what ends up defining it. Like, you can talk about what your culture is and stuff, but what's, what's tolerated across the organization ends up kind of being one of the best definitions of what, what your culture is.

Totally. And then what have you learned about hiring in light of all that?

I've learned that, and this is not new, people have said this before, but I've now really internalized it, is that you should hire slow and fire fast. And I don't think you should fire fast, really. I think you should— oh, that's a really serious thing when you get to that stage and you have somebody's life and their family and the people connected to them in your hands in a lot of ways. And so doing that in the right way is really important. But you should, you should set a timeline of expectations and results from the beginning when somebody is coming in. And if they're not hitting that, then you should have already created a framework and structure for them to understand that. These were what the business needed for this to work and that and to make it as non-personal as possible. And I think that's a really hard thing to do. Non-personal in a business. Come on. The, the essence and the magic of businesses is people. And so totally trying you're trying to separate those two. With hiring, I think having a lot of people interview the person and almost anybody who's going to interact with them regularly is worth the time. And it's— and it also makes those people part of that choosing process. And I found that anytime I've hired somebody where the people who they were going to manage directly or the really important people they were going to work cross-functionally with every day, those people weren't somehow brought into the fold at some point and either early stage in the hiring or at least as a checkpoint by the end of it. It's always, almost always been better when they were part of the process and they gave their sign-off too. And so they felt like they were part of it. Everybody likes to work on their idea. That's just the human nature. They— that you let you get connected to your own personal ideas. And people like to be kept in the loop in the process, even sometimes when you know it's not a good use of their time or their energy or their stress to think about it. And, and you have to make those choices as a leader is like, when do you pull people in to Can they handle that? If they, they think they want to know, but do they really want to, or should you not put that on them? And so, yeah, with hiring, I think it's worth putting that on people early on. I think working really hard to find great people pays off a lot, and if you miss and find a bad person, it's very costly. And so, just going in eyes wide open that those two things are true is like talent a really talented person can change the entire business and a really bad person can change the entire business.

Right. For sure. Is there a favorite interview question that you have or that your team has come up with to, you know, kind of make sure that this person, that people are new cultural fits?

I'll share a big list of questions that we use from time to time. But my favorite thing to do is to take them out to dinner actually, and see how they interact with a person who's serving them. And that's everything to me. And I look back at some of the hires that didn't work out, and if I would have just gone to dinner with them, I would have realized that they weren't the right hire. And when you're in hospitality and, and grew up the way I did with parents who, you know, both worked in restaurants— when, when my mom was pregnant with me, her and my dad were, were running an Italian joint in Chico at Chico State, you know,. And I think that was always bred into me at an early stage. Hospitality, hosting people and things like that. And then also how you act to people who are in service to you. And you can learn a lot about people who, and how they treat people who are in service to them.

Yeah, that's beautiful. Jake, I'm curious how in, in your, you know, decades-long journey now as a leader and as a founder, What are some of the ways that you've grown personally as a leader?

How I've grown personally is not taking things too personally and sometimes chalking it up to it's just business, you know, like I just talked about. It's very personal to me. That brand is very personal to me. It's my baby. But I learned that to grow that baby, I, I needed to, I needed to change as a parent, you know, and, yes, grow with them and, and take my hands off a little bit and let it, let it run on its own and let it sometimes even fall on its face and see what that feels like. I've, I've never really— I've never let our company run off a cliff. But I find that the last 5 years I've let some of my teammates fall a couple of times to just see what they're made of, you know, resilience and being relentless and figuring it out on your own and starting to be able to learn from mistakes the same way I have and let people run through mistakes to become better leaders themselves. I've learned was really important, being more transparent and letting people be connected to some of the ugly stuff, you know? And early on, I didn't want anybody to really understand the financials of the business because I always thought, oh, if they saw these financials, they'd be scared that they're not going to have a job in like 3 months.

They'd run away.

Yeah. Then you start to realize you're like, well, if they do run away, are they the— are they the right person, you know? And so all of a sudden you start learning that when you're vulnerable and you're transparent, the people who are supposed to be with you and want to build this thing with you and are actually taking responsibility for that number rather than being overly scared about it, those are the people that you want around you. Being more and more authentic with people is a similar thing that I've seen is as I start to talk to people and tell them what I really want to say and mean versus trying to sugarcoat it or say it in a way that I— how I think they want to hear it has been a game changer for me and it's allowed me to feel more authentic too. So just that alone is powerful. But then I think it's been good for my team Being conscious of the machinery that I have and my capabilities, but also being conscious of how to use them and being more of a technician on how to use my skill sets and, and understanding what my weaknesses are and getting really deeply in touch with those, which happen to be some of my greatest strengths too, depending on the day and the situation. Is, is really important. So I found that I was, had a tendency to clap back at my teammates immediately with 100% confidence on certain things and how annoying that was and how much it made them feel like belittled and me look like I'm a know-it-all. And part of it is just like me and my confidence and excitement about sharing something with somebody and feeling like I have the right answer. But that overconfidence that I have the right answer when my track record says that I'm not 100% right. I know that surprises people, but I've been wrong on quite a few things and just being a little bit more open-minded, learning that I wasn't being a very good listener and that, that, that's really one of the biggest keys to being a leader is to like to truly listen, not just be thinking about what you want to say next, but listening to people, internalizing, and then taking time before I react and, and have an answer right away shows thoughtfulness and, and a little, a little bit less of like a reactionary type of, type of leadership style and, and a much more thoughtful and intentional one. So those, those are some of the learnings I've learned a great deal. And I do feel like I've developed and I've become a stronger leader because I've gone through some stuff. You know, I've gone through hard days. I've gone through the bank account hitting zero plenty of times in my career. I've had my back up against the wall and I've seen that I can— there's almost always a way and you just have to be committed to it. And getting in touch with a healthy level of fear and understanding and taking myself back consistently to being re-centered in purpose first and foremost and why I'm doing this. And also understanding that everything you want is on the other side of fear. And so, and in that like fear, pain, struggle, all of those things, like the other side of those is the trade-off of the greatest happiness, joy, feeling of fulfillment and achievement and purpose that you can find. But it doesn't come cheap.

It doesn't come cheap. When was the most recent time that your back was up against a wall?

Oh, all throughout the pandemic, really. Yeah. The at-home wine tastings fell off a cliff. Of course, tailwinds of social selling and like virtual wine tastings for a hot minute, which was fun and that was a bunch of growth, but we weren't really having in-person connection, which is the magic of our brand. And so all of a sudden, all this influx of customers and wine reps and stuff that came in during that time, a lot of them didn't really experience the brand the way that it was before the pandemic. And that, that was really hard. And it, at the same time, we had, we thought we were going a certain direction and we were trying to pivot towards virtual and we hired in that direction and we put resources in it, we invested in it. And then, you know, over the next couple of years, things slowly started to roll back. But you were in no man's land a little bit and depending on what states you were in and all these things. So just having clarity about where we wanted to invest our resources, our dollars and all of that. And yeah, there were, there were moments where you know, it wasn't all growth and, and up into the right. It was, it was down into the right. And, you know, we're a company that came from 168 cases to 100,000 a year now. And we've had a compounded annual growth rate of about 20% annualized for 15 years to get to where we are. But so experiencing years where you actually lose market share, but you're getting more disciplined about your expenses and controls and things like that. That's a sign of maturity in the business, even though it's really painful to go through. And when you're— when you have less people than you did last year, right? Like, that's— that was— that took some getting used to, you know? And so when that slide starts to happen, momentum is a wild thing. So, I mean, as recent as the last few years feeling that, and I still to this day don't take it for granted where we are. I feel like we're in a much more stable place than we were a little while ago. And I feel like the society is in a little bit more stable place. Yeah, that sounds funny saying that 60 days before an election. Helped with my— but let's see. I'll take it.

Fingers crossed. Exactly. Exactly. Jake, just a couple more questions. What do you wish you had known earlier on your journey?

I think that I wish that I knew, you know, it's going to turn out all right. No matter where this twists and turns, it's going to be all right. And be present in the moment. This is one of the best moments there's going to be, you know, like this window of time. And I started thinking about that more, and that set in when I had a baby. And I feel like maybe if I understood that feeling and had that reference of time earlier, I would be at— I would have been a different type of a leader. And so I have thoughts sometimes about like, would I have started a family earlier with, with my wife? Because I always wanted to have kids early on. And I think I, I think I put that off because I thought, you know, I need to focus on this business and I can't do those two things. And I also thought that maybe my calling was to touch like millions of children and that in the second act of my life or the second mountain, I was going to build orphanages and do something at scale for kids. And after having a child, I, I think that I'm even more likely to do that. And I, I think I'm more committed to the purpose that I have. And it connects— Nourishing the Future connects even more at the most nuanced level and the most direct level compared to saying it in the past where it was at the biggest, most general level. Now it's at a very specific level. And so, yeah, I think as a leader, I maybe I would have done that earlier because I think it's been so beneficial. But at the same time, no regrets. You know, it's— I'm so grateful for where I'm at and having a second child on the way too, which we don't know the gender yet. And we didn't with Jack either. But I, I'm thrilled about that. And so everybody's time, I think, is, is probably meant to be on that front. But I also— so that's, that's at a personal level, I think. And then at the business level, there's a part of me that wishes that I figured out the product market fit and who we were and where we were going and all of that stuff first and then scaled. And I think because we started out with 8 of us, we were always bigger than we could afford to be. And so it put an immense amount of pressure on me as the chief executive officer because my job is to capitalize the company. And when you start out with 8 people, they better all be able to pay for themselves quickly. And I think we've always lived a little beyond our means. And, and it's this delicate balance because you're trying to build— you're trying to bend reality, right? You're trying to build something out of the dirt that didn't exist before. And we've done that with the property. We've literally built structures out of the dirt that weren't there. And we've done this with this brand that was nothing and then it became a little seed and then now it pops up all over in the wild. And I think that when people are starting a business nowadays, I'd always caution them of like, keep it lean and keep it to a— put pressure on— unneeded pressure on yourself until it takes a while sometimes to figure all that stuff out. Yeah, I feel like it's easy for me to look back and say that now, but We, we were just brave enough to go and start this thing and just naive enough to think that we could do it. And so there's something really special about not, not exactly knowing what the future holds and jumping and hoping the net will appear along the way.

And I love that. I love that. Well, that gets into the last question I have, which you give a little bit of, but what advice do you have for other founders as they embark on their journeys to grow into leaders?

Enjoy what you're doing every day. Find something that gives you purpose. It doesn't have to be fun every day, and it's definitely not going to be easy every day. So that's just like something that isn't real. And even if it was, I don't think it would be quite as fulfilling if there wasn't a lot of struggle and challenge that comes. But every great entrepreneur out there will speak of struggle and challenge, and they may not even be able to exactly size it up with this big moment. Like you were kind of asking about, were there these, these moments and inflection points, Alisa Cohn? And it's like, no, it's these moments where you wake up and you're on the road and you, and you get a shitty email in the, at 5 a.m. in the morning. And that's how your day starts out. And you're feeling a little bit lonely and down from like an amazing event that you had last night. But now you're on the the other side of that wave. And if it— it's so hard to build something over time and something that has lasting power. And even if you have a purpose that you can get recentered in every day. So if you don't have it, it's, it's nearly impossible. And great businesses, great brands are built by people at the end of the day. And like invest in the people that— make sure you pick the right people and really invest into them and, and be loyal to them and work hard for them. And they'll work hard for you and you'll work hard for each other. And I think the combination of people and then, like I said, not, not overinvesting early on before you know where you're going. And at the same time enjoying the journey, picking people early on, getting it right early on with people that you want to build with and who on that tough day, if you can't recenter yourself in purpose and why you're doing it, they help you get there. And I tell people that all the time, that we have a bunch— we have 6 of us and there are a lot of days where a handful of us were weak, on our knees, or ready, or ready to give up. But there was never a day where all of us were. And so there was always at least one person who was like, no, we got this, guys. And so I'm a real believer in doing it with other people and having co-founders. And I think that if you, you know, that old saying that if you want to go fast, go alone, but if you want to go far, go together, it takes other people to build great things. And whether you found it yourself or not, get some great partners around you and you can build these great things. It's the only way the greatest things have ever been built.

So beautiful. Jake, what can I say? Breathtaking. Thank you so much for this great conversation and congratulations on what you're building. With One Hope, which is just really extraordinary. And I'm really looking forward to following your progress. And thanks for joining me today. It was such a good conversation.

Thanks, Alisa Cohn. Can I share one more thing about looking back on the brand name?

Please.

Yeah, please. Our name, One Hope, is two of the most powerful words in the English language brought together for a single word. And it's really special to me. That the actual brand and name itself. And I just thought that it stood for what we're doing. I didn't really have an exact definition or reasoning of why it was perfect. It just felt like it. And those two words captured what, what we're doing perfectly. And I came to realize over the last few years as people went through a period of time where we weren't able to connect as much in person and that human connection was broken a bit, that our, our company early on, I thought about, you know, our service being wine tastings. But I come to realize that our service is really bringing people together and we happen to do it around tasting wine. And I always thought about our product as being wine, but our product is actually hope and it comes in the form of a bottle of wine. And so within our name is both our service and our product and when that kind of came to me, and it was like an aha moment of, that's what One Hope is, is bringing people together to give people hope. And we do it with wine. And so I hope that the people listening and others who have supported us over the years continue to give people hope by opening up a great bottle of wine and supporting us. And I do, I also want to just let you know that we built this brand from a public storage unit because of people wanting to help us out and just being like, hey, I want to share your mission. It's how our wine rep program even started, was our friends and family being like, we want to have a tasting event for you and get the word out. And they would host them and, you know, they'd be like, where can I buy this? And they'd be like, 40 miles down the road, Bob's the Chardonnay or something, you know. And so ultimately that grew into this ambassador program. But it really is people like you saying, I really love your story. I like what you guys are doing and I want to help you and I want to share it with people. So thank you for being a part of Sharing Wine and Giving Hope. And thanks to anybody listening. We're, we're excited to touch people's lives through working with every one of you.

Thank you, Jake. Beautiful. Thanks again.

Thanks, Alisa Cohn. Have a great day.

Thanks for listening to From Startup to Grownup. If you like what you heard, give it a review on Apple Podcasts so other people can find it. And if you know of a founder or someone else who is meant to be on this podcast, drop me a line through my website, alisacohn.com.