How to Start a Thriving Coaching Practice with Marshall Goldsmith, Dorie Clark, and Alisa Cohn

Hi everyone, welcome. My name is Dori Clark and I am here with incredible executive coaches. First, I'd like to introduce to you Alyssa Cohn. Alyssa Cohn is the number one coach for startups in the world. She is a contributor to Worth, to Inc. And to Forbes and is a great friend. And I'm also here with Marshall Goldsmith, the legendary executive coach. Really the founder of the modern day practice of executive coaching, considered the number one executive coach, number one thought leader in executive coaching in the world. Author of bestsellers including what Got yout Here, Won't get yout There and Mojo and Triggers and Alyssa.

And we, Marshall and I are both honored to be here with you. Dori Clark, the number one communications coach in the world and three time author, most recently entrepreneurial, you and also a teacher at Fuqua School of Business as well as other organizations.

Ah, well, thank you so much. That's great. So everyone, we are here today with this webinar, the New Coach and we wanted to do this. Alyssa and I are part of Marshall's MG100, 100 coaches project, which is an initiative that's focused on giving back to others. And one of the things that we realized is, is that for many people something that doesn't get talked about enough is how do you build a successful coaching practice? How do you do the business of it so that you can thrive well enough to be able to help more people. So we are eager to take your questions. If you have questions again, please feel free to type them into the chat box. We will be going through them, but I wanted to get started and elicit the wonderful expertise of Alyssa and Marshall. I'll be chiming into so we can get started with some of the questions that have come in previously. So the first one to get started with and Alyssa, maybe we can start with you and then go to Marshall actually comes from Jeff. And Jeff wanted to know how can you best establish credibility with people who don't already know you if they don't know you? If you haven't been directly referred, how do you seem credible? Alyssa, what would you say?

Well, thanks Dori and thanks for you for your vision in kind of conducting this webinar for us together. So Jeff, you know the way to think about that is to go back to people who you already know. They're going to help you understand both what is great about you so that you can establish the credibility by knowing that. But also getting their referrals and testimonials and references helps you build that credibility even before you've Begun your coaching practice. Using other people is a great way to build credibility.

Wonderful. Marshall, what would you contribute to that?

Well, the way I got started into business and leadership development is I met a very famous man, Dr. Paul Hersey, and he got double booked. He said, can you do what I do? I said, I don't own. I've been hanging around with him. He said, I'll pay $1,000 for a day. I was making $15,000 a year. So I said, I'll give it a shot here. And I did this program for the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company. It's very, very successful. And they were angry when I showed up, but happy when I left.

Said, send Marshall again.

So Paul says, well, you know, why don't you go work with me? I said, paul, how can I sell anything? I have no credibility. Not famous like you are. And Paul said, use the word we. We. And, you know, we was 99% Paul Hersey and, you know, 1% me, if that.

But it worked.

And my first book I did was Francis Esselbein, Peter. Peter Drucker, Richard Beckhardt, and me. Well, who was I? I was basically nobody. But after six books with them, I became kind of one of them. So I'd say, you know, hang around with some great people, and people obviously want you to do this, so. And then you can be a partner. Use that word, we.

That's great. Thank you, Marshall. And Jeff, I'll just add one other thing. A concept that I talk about a lot, especially in my recognized expert course is social proof. And specifically, this is a term borrowed from psychology, but it really means what is the credibility that you are telegraphing in the marketplace? And a kind of shortcut way that I recommend people think about it is what are the brands that. That people have already heard of that you can affiliate yourself with? So, for instance, you can get it through clients that you've worked with, through institutions that you've taught for or attended, publications that you've been featured in or write for. So you can be thinking, oh, well, if I have a marquee client or if I can work to get one, if I can work hard to break into a brand name publication, those are things that can help your reputation speak for you.

Yep.

Awesome.

Great. Thanks, Jeff. So a second question came in from Denise and Marshall. I'd like to start with you, if you don't mind. She wants to know, how can coaches remain humble while marketing their services? I know this is sort of a challenge for a lot of people. They feel like maybe I need to Somehow brag about myself in order to market effectively. But how do I strike that balance?

Well, majority of coaches are women. And Sally Hoax and I wrote a book together called How Women Ride. She's the lead author. And how are women different than men? And one of the issues with women is typically a problem with what is called self promotion. Women tend to have this misguided belief that my good work should speak for itself, as if God is going to fly out of the sky and recognize your good work. Well, if that were true, no company would need a marketing. And actually, in a way, if you look at the concept of ego, people say, that's being ego less. I would challenge that, assuming it's actually being egotistical. Because when you have that view, I shouldn't have to promote myself. I shouldn't have to market myself. What you're really saying is, I'm so good, I'm above all that stuff. I'm certainly not above it. And I think it's very important to realize every good company has a marketing function, and you are your own marketing function. And get over that shame and guilt crap. Sit there and say, you know, if I believe in the product, don't be afraid to promote it.

Yeah, absolutely. Can I follow up on that?

Do it, Alyssa. Thanks, Dorie.

Yes, Marshall. Fantastic. And also, if you believe in the product, I know that there are every coach out there listening to this webinar, and every coach out there who wants to build a practice has a lot to offer people. So what I tell my clients about this all the time is it's stingy of you to keep it to yourself. It's sticky stingy of you to not offer your services and your signature presence to the world. And so you don't want to think about marketing yourself. You want to think about the valuable offering you're able to contribute. When you focus on that, it's not about self promotion. It's about attracting the right people.

That's good.

Yeah, that's really helpful. Thank you. And one other piece, Denise, that I'll just add to that as well, is that it's so important to have a wingman supporting you. It is considered a little bit over the top, you know, not what I would recommend for people to say, oh, I'm the greatest, I'm the best. I mean, that comes across as bragging. But if you have good friends and colleagues that say, alyssa is the best, Marshall is the greatest, people will listen, they will take it seriously, and then you are able to do it for them as well. It's sort of a rising tide lifts all bonus.

One other thing, if you, if you can't get a wing man, get wing.

Women to help you out. That's right. Absolutely. Equal opportunity. Always love it. Love it. So another question came in from Kayla and she was wondering, she said, I'm still grappling with the fear of going out on my own as a coach and so I'll actually start with this if that's all right and maybe we'll go to you next on this side. But Kayla, I think this is not an irrational fear. I mean it is difficult sometimes to get the wheels turning and be able to start earning revenue. And so one thing that I actually advise people is it is not a bad idea at all. I actually recommend that if you are interested in becoming a coach that you start doing it nights and weekends while you are working in a full time job. Because first of all, it enables you to test it to see if you like it, to work out the kinks, to get experience, to get testimonials. And then whenever you do decide, if you decide to do it full time, you should be doing it at the point where you have enough actual paying clients that you are able to replace a good percentage of your income. Otherwise it becomes a little bit more, you know, oh, I'm just going to jump off a cliff and hope it works. And no wonder you have apprehensions about that. That's pretty terrifying. So work to build it up on a side and then you can transition more gently into full time coaching.

Alyssa Dorie. That's very powerful. The notion of little steps get you there. What I advise my clients and I write a lot about is really a personal mastery. The notion of really understanding what your fear is and knowing that irrational beliefs that are coming up for you, your shame and your concern and your imposter syndrome, we all have that. What's very helpful is to find ways to challenge those irrational thoughts. Find people who are your best cheerleaders and find out what you bring to the table and write those things down to counteract your irrational fear. So what Dori pointed out is some of your fear is rational. Little steps will help that. But your internal confidence you need to build by using the right kind of self talk and mindset and that's going to really help propel you forward.

One suggestion I would have, if you do have a full time job now, it may not be possible, but it may, that is to try to get a bridge contract.

Yeah.

So what that means is I'm working full time for this large company, I want to go off and be a coach. If I could get a maybe two to three year part time contract with the company, that really helps ease that transition. So again, may not be possible. On the other hand, Bridge giving you ideas, maybe it would be.

Yeah. You never know if you don't ask. Yeah. Thank you very much, Marshall. So we had another great question that came in and this one is from Dennis. And Dennis wanted to know. He says, I often will meet managers who want to bring me in, but they're not the decision maker and they don't seem willing to go to the decision maker and argue for me how can I sort of break through this struggle that I keep encountering? Yeah. So it's a tricky question.

What do you think?

Yeah. So for me, Dennis, I think if we're talking about how do you break through to decision makers, it's hard, obviously, if in your own network you're not already connected to CEOs or high level people. And so in many cases I think it's sort of an upstream problem. It's, well, how do you get connected to those right kind of people? And so something that I am a strong advocate for is working to build your platform. Because the more content that you are creating, the more you are able to get noticed by the right people and be seen as a peer at the high level. You're never going to network your way to a CEO if the person that you happen to know is a mid tier manager. It's just too many hurdles. But if you can begin a campaign to start writing for high profile publications such that you're in the Harvard Business Review or you're in Forbes or the things that CEOs and high level people are reading and they begin to say, oh, I keep seeing this guy's name everywhere. His ideas are great, let's bring him in. That changes the power dynamic. It's not you knocking on their door, it's them saying, let's bring in Dennis.

Yeah. Yep. That's fantastic. And I would add that, you know, I built my practice starting 18 years ago by putting one foot in front of the other. So I definitely encountered those challenges when I started out. And actually I think of this as an opportunity to begin the coaching process when I talk with a new client. Back in those days, certainly it was about what is the process from here? And then we could talk about the process. Very often they themselves don't know what the process is. They haven't really thought it through. So what's the process from here? And Then also helping them and coaching them in the moment, but how they're going to bring the discussion to the decision maker and how they're going to have that conversation. You both provide value and you also are more likely to get into the coaching framework in that way.

I love it. Marshall, any other thoughts? All right, Very good, thanks. So Raphael wrote in with a question and we touched on this a little bit, but I think it's worth probing because it often gets talked about. What are your thoughts about doing free or discounted work when you are getting started, Marshall? Do you have opinions about that?

I do ton of free work now. I don't think I'm getting started, but I do ton of free work. No one's nice thing to do. I mean, I've worked with the Red Cross, the Girl Scouts, the New York Public Library, you know, on and on and on.

So I'm noticing these are all nonprofits. Is that, is that a common denominator for you?

I also in the army and the Navy, people like that. Yeah, I do a lot of free work. I think it's great for variety. One, it's good to do good deeds. Two, they often have boards and the boards are often very important people. And I have dinner with my clients all the time. And it's really nice to have dinner with people who different. Like the head of the New York Public Library is interesting as opposed to just another corporate CEO or the head of the Red Cross or our friend Francis Hesselbein instead of the Girl Scouts. So I'm a big, big fan of that idea.

Yep. Great.

I would add that when you're just getting started, a great way to think about getting your first few clients is to be offered to doing free work. What you get from that is except experience to counteract that fear we were talking about before. Also, it gives you something to write about, to Dori's point about writing content, you've got to create content to help build your platform and also most importantly, get you testimonials and references to continue to build your social proof. Ultimately, it's going to be the ladder that you're going to be able to build on.

Yeah, that's terrific. And I'll also say to this question, Rafael, that I think that in many cases free work is better than discounted work because from a branding perspective, if you are giving it as a gift, people are often very grateful, very appreciative. If you are discounting it even, I mean, that's a gift as well. But oftentimes people will say, well, Maybe he really is only worth $30 an hour. And yes, they get these sort of weird ideas. So I think it's often better from a branding perspective to be either expensive or. Or free and not somewhere in between. Yeah.

I wanted to suggest if you do volunteer work. I've done a ton of volunteer work, and what I found is you really have to reinforce you are doing volunteer work. Because what happens is, actually, I've had this happen before. I worked in a very large volunteer organization. Somebody comes up to me and says, how much are we paying you to do this? You're not paying me anything to do this. Well, the reality is it's a compliment to the company. And people need to know you're a volunteer because if they don't, then sometimes they actually get angry because you seem threatening to them. And I'm in a nonprofit. I'm not getting paid much. Why are we paying this other coach to be here? Well, let make sure that the people know if you are a volunteer, that you are one. And also, do not assume that was a mistake I made. Do not assume that they automatically know that sometimes they don't.

Right.

Yeah. Such an important point, Marshall. Thank you. That's great. So another great question I think came in from Lucia, and she wondered about the value of taking on a specific niche. She said she's a lawyer. Should she just work with other lawyers to start? She's been told that if you start in a niche, it's easier to establish yourself. What's your take, Alyssa? How would you tackle that?

Well, to be honest with you, if you're a lawyer, then I think you have fantastic access to lawyers, formal lawyers. Right. In that whole space. So I'm not sure if I would think about. Oh, the value of when you're first starting out. The value of deciding on a niche so early. It's more like the obvious niche is the one you can start getting work at and beginning building your platform and your profile from there.

Yeah, I think that's very true. Marshall, do you have a pro or con take on the niche question?

I have a niche. I only work with highly successful people and help them achieve positive, long term change in behavior. So very narrow.

Love it. Love it.

I don't have an industry niche, but I have a client niche.

Right? That's right. There's a lot of different ways that you can think about it if you do want to have a niche. I mean, it could be industry specific, it could be regional. You know, I'm the number one coach in Des Moines, or it could be you coach expats or, you know, whatever your thing is. There's different ways to think about it, but I think early on there's some people. If a niche appeals to you and it presents itself readily, by all means, it is easier to establish yourself in it. Sometimes for Renaissance people, it can be a little hard to pin it down and choose. I know I had that experience, and so it's not required. You don't have to shoehorn yourself into something if it doesn't feel right. But if you're comfortable with it, then, yes, it often is easier because you know how to reach those clients. You look like you had something else to say.

No, I mean, in my case, I think it's kind of good to have a niche. I have a very narrow niche. I got a call from this one company that said, we got this second line supervisor. We love this guy. Would you ever work with a second line supervisor? I said, well, I haven't done that for years. I said, we love this guy. Would you like to do it? I said, I don't know. Here's what it costs. I said, love's a strong word. We just like him. We don't love him.

That's right.

Draw your line and then say it.

Yeah, that's it.

Yes. So another question actually came in. This one is from Fratiba, but it actually came in from several people. So I think it's on people's minds. They wanted to know about certification. Is certification a must when it comes to coaching? Or how do you think about that? So you sound like you have some thoughts, Alyssa.

Well, I think it's a complicated question. I am in my path from my past life, a recovering cpa, so I know a lot about certification. I guess the way I think about that is that training and expertise and lifelong learning, including a lot of self learning, which is a lot of what I do and what all of us do here. Reading, keeping yourself up to speed, talking with colleagues. We are so fortunate to be able to be part of the Marshalls 100 coaches. To learn from our whole community. Those are all important things. And then I would add that one time in my life has anyone asked me for certification about certification? I just don't think it has not been that important to me. That may be different in Europe and other countries in the US Especially in each that I work in, which is startups. It's just not really relevant. But I want to emphasize it's really important to have your own lifelong learning program.

Yeah, that's great, Marshall, do you have.

A. I think it just depends. I mean, I'm not certified by anyone, so, you know, I don't know, but I think it just depends. Because if you haven't written a bunch of books and you don't have some established credibility, otherwise, I don't see a downside. So I'd say, yeah, it's probably a good idea if that is the situation, if you're at a certain point where there's really not much need for demand for it and don't worry about it. On the other hand, why not if, you know, if it helped build your credibility?

You don't get dumber.

Yeah, you don't get dumber. I have a good phrase. I won't learn less.

That's right. And to the specifics of your question, Pratiba, you were wondering, is a coaching certification a must? I wouldn't say it's a must, but I agree with Marshall. Many. You know, obviously you want to do your homework, see what other people think about it from different programs. But many coaching certification programs are great in terms of professional development and just giving you new skills, new tools that you can use. But the asterisk on that is that ultimately what matters when it comes to the metric of getting business is what matters to your prospective clients. And so many prospective clients, honestly have never heard of the coaching certifications, they can't tell the difference. They don't know. It may be a great thing for you, but ultimately you should be asking yourself, what's going to be meaningful to the people who are hiring me?

And sometimes they do care, and that's fine, too.

Yes, absolutely. But, you know, other, other metrics can be, have you written books? Have you. Do you have a lot of experience in the industry? Are there other ways that they can tell that you, you know, what you're doing?

Yeah, yeah.

Fantastic. So a question that came in that I thought was. Was quite interesting comes from Jeannie. And Jeannie wanted to know for all of you guys here, what in your opinion has caused spikes in your business growth? Are there certain events or circumstances that you can point to that have demonstrably propelled you forward? You know, any kind of turning points?

So I think Marshall has a good story about turning point in his career.

Which one?

The New Yorker article.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

That'S right. That's what brought us together.

Yeah.

Yeah. The New Yorker magazine wrote the story of my life. That was a very positive thing. And then my friend Mark Rider, who was here today, we're doing our fourth book together. That's how I met him. So I have to say I owe a lot to New Yorker magazine.

Now, Marshall, how did the New Yorker actually discover you? How did they find out?

Well, there was almost nothing ever heard of about executive coaching before. This was 2002. Actually, there's very little executive coaching in 2002.

That's right.

It was a pretty new field. And so this woman, Larissa Farquhar, was said, what is this executive coaching thing? So she's kind of scurrying around trying to find someone. The first person she looked up was David Allen. I love David Allen. He's one of our hundred coaches. But she said, getting organized, that's sort of boring. So she looked around. Marshall Goldsmith, he's a Buddhist, kind of weird, you know. So I think it'd be a much more fun story to have him. So that's why I'm here.

Yeah.

Amazing. So getting. So one answer is getting written or getting written about getting featured in a major publication can be a turning point in terms of being perceived as a recognized expert. Alyssa, have you had that experience?

Well, I'd like to say on the one hand, I think it's really true. An overnight success is 10 years in the making. It's like one foot in front of the other every day, being out there every day and doing your best every day and recovering from setback every day. So that's been the story of my career for sure. At the same time, thanks to the inspiration of both of you, especially you, Dorie, who helped me think about writing for high profile publications, was enjoying enormously productive for me. And I would say that once I started writing for Inc. And for Forbes, and then I was featured and published in other publications, I began to get the snowball effect right. An accumulation upward spiral of a lot of interest and a lot of more high profile clients, which then propelled me to other high profile clients. So it's both the daily grind and.

Also, I think these spikes. Yeah, I think. I think that's right. And just to chime in with my own experience, Jeanne, something that made a big difference for me early on was I had to work really hard to break in. But starting to write for the Harvard Business Review, which I did in 2010, was a really big deal. The second piece that I ever wrote for them began to get a little bit of traction, and they reached out to me and asked if I would be interested in expanding the blog post into an article for Harvard Business Review magazine, which I did. And when it came out, literally that week, three different literary agents reached out to me and said, oh, hey, have you thought about turning this into a book? So, you know, that was the first time that I had gotten that much interest coming at me. And I thought, okay, this is great. This is a breakthrough moment. And then when that book actually came out, my first book, Reinventing you, that became a turning point for me, especially in terms of being able to convert it into paid speaking engagements. This book is often really helpful in that. Yeah. So great, great question there. Let's take a couple more and then let's transfer to the question, the live questions from you guys. And thanks. I see a bunch of them have come in, so we appreciate that. So a question that has come in from Kevin. He wants to know, can you talk about pros and cons of different ways of packaging your coaching? For instance, individual coaching versus group coaching or in person versus remote? How do you see that working in terms of building your business? Is there one thing that's better to do than others?

Well, I'll just throw out there. I think the key word here is experimentation. Thinking about trying different models, both in terms of individual coaching and then team coaching. Also what I think is an opportunity, when you work with an individual in a company, you could think about the opportunities there to then work with that person's team or then work with that person's sort of colleagues around. So I think that then you can think about packaging things as not just one person, but four people, or not just one person, but four people plus also off sites. So I think it's about building things together, experimenting. The one thing that I would say is that I don't tend to make a distinction between either calls or videos versus in person. And I don't recommend that because actually all the research on coaching is anyway proven that it's just as effective in person as it is on video or on the phone.

Very nice. And Kevin, very useful question here. One thing that I've experienced in my own business, it's certainly different if you're starting within a company because then it's sort of self evident how you can expand it out. But if you are doing B2C coaching, if you're coaching individuals directly, one thing that I've realized is that sometimes people, when they're first getting started, say, oh, wouldn't it be great to bring a group together? But they don't really have an opportunity audience yet. And so it's like, well, how are you gonna get those 10 people? And so that, that can be really tricky. And you end up killing yourself trying to beat the bushes and get these people. So oftentimes, if you're literally just starting, it can be easier to work with individuals one on one. And then over time, you're able to build up enough of a base so that maybe some of those people or their referrals can become a group. But, you know, group coaching is very efficient. It's a great way of learning. It's very effective, but not if you can't fill the group. So that's the key there. Yes. Marshall, anything else to add there?

No, that's great.

Okay, wonderful. Well, guys, why don't we switch now to our live questions in the chat? So I'm just gonna lean in here and open up the chat box. There are so much, so many. This is amazing. I love it. Well, one technical question that I can answer right away that came in from Agatha, she wants to know, will this recording be shared? The answer, Agatha, is yes, it will be. You'll be receiving the recording afterwards, so fear not.

By the way, you can send it to all your friends and share it.

With the whole world. Yeah, feel free.

Yeah. We're here to add value, disseminate away. Absolutely. So Michelle had a question that I think is really useful. It's on a lot of people's minds, and that is, how often do you use social media? What is the role of social media in building your practice, Marshall, how do you think about that?

I have 1.3 million followers on LinkedIn, so I'm kind of big on social media. To me, it's really not to build my practice, it's to reach people. I mean, you can say social media has lots of drawbacks. My new book, I'm going to talk about some of the positives and negatives of social media, but it's just a great way to reach people. My hundred coach idea, basically. I mean, I went to this program by our friend Ayshay Brucelle put on. She said, you know, who are your heroes? My heroes were very kind and generous people like Paul Hersey and Peter Drucker and Francis Hessenberg. And she said, oh, you'd be more like them. And I said, that's a nice idea. I'm going to give away everything I.

Know to 15 people.

And they get old, they can do the same thing. So I made a little selfie video and put it on LinkedIn. I thought maybe 100 people replied. Turned out to be the most widely viewed video ever on LinkedIn. 18,000 people applied, which really led to this whole project, which means I get to work with wonderful people.

Like these two.

So for me, social media is a great opportunity. Now, again, I'm really not an Expert outside of LinkedIn, the others I use, but I don't know as much as I would like to. LinkedIn, though, I know a lot about. For me, it's been very, very positive.

So if you had to have one tip. Marshall, for somebody kind of just starting out, you know, they don't have a big following at all, what do you think they should. They should do or lean in on?

Here's the hard part. Get started. I mean, it's easy to just say, well, look at that guy, he's got $1.3 million follower. Easy for him. Well, I didn't have it when I began, began with one follower. So you kind of got to build it up and you're not going to get started any younger. So bottom line is you make a decision, I'm going to do it or not. If you're going to do it, just bite the bullet and crank it out every week and realize that they're going to be very few people and very little return for the first several weeks. As Liza said, one step at a.

Time, possibly for several years.

Several years. On the other hand, you know, I guess starting younger, just go for it.

Yeah, that's great. Thank you. Well, I'll chime in here. When it comes to social media, I do think actually that it is important. It's also important to balance it out because social media is one of these activities where I think oftentimes people can con themselves into thinking I'm doing work by spending hours and hours on social media. Oh, I'm building my brand, I'm connecting with people. And I mean, yes, you are. It's better than like watching a cat video, but it's very different than actually calling a prospect. It's very different than actually having a meeting, meeting with someone that might turn into a real client. And so we can delude ourselves sometimes.

Never watching a cat video. A low bar.

It's better than that cat video.

Yes. So I would say it is important to have a presence. We can't be on all of them. There's way too many now. So thinking through your niche, I mean, in Marshall's case, it's LinkedIn. For many of us, if you're an executive coach, LinkedIn is really where to be. If you're doing more work with individuals, more life coaching is probably Facebook or something like that. But know where your audience is and emphasize there. I'll just say the last part is that for Many people, they do the kind of easy thing, the low hanging fruit of like, oh, I'll just retweet this or I'll share a picture or something, that's fine. But what is better is actually sharing thoughtful content that demonstrates your expertise. Taking the time to write something, write a post, write an article and share it. That is what enables people to say, oh, this is unique. I like the way she thinks. I want to work with her.

Alyssa, you know, the only thing I want to add, I mean, you two are experts in this. The only thing I want to add is that I personally have been able to connect with people who are really significant and meaningful, in some cases high profile, by following what they're doing on Twitter or on LinkedIn or even on Facebook and tailoring really content just to them and beginning to get into relationship and a dialogue with them just on those channels. I would say definitely to your point, don't spend all your time on that. But a targeted.

Whoa.

A targeted approach to some high profile individuals can be very helpful.

Yes, very.

Taking a little break here.

Very good. Yes, yes.

Fixes his phone. This is live theater.

Important phone update. That's great.

That's great.

Excellent. So wonderful. Here we go. So just scrolling through some of these wonderful questions that have come in. So Stacy has one that I think is really valuable for all of us. She wants to know what.

Stacy?

Yeah, Stacy, what best practices do you recommend for balancing your time? So how do you spend your time actually coaching versus your time building your business, your marketing, your logistics, etc. How do you break that up? How do you know what the right balance is? Yeah, Marshall, how do you think about that?

You know, I don't know. I just do stuff. And I think the key is to enjoy what you're doing. So if you enjoy what you're doing, spend all the time you want. And if you don't enjoy what you're doing, it's painful.

Yeah.

So my only advice is not really a good answer to the question, but to the degree you love what you're doing, leading a well balanced life has to me, not really ever been much of a question. I'm 70 years old. I quote, work all the time. But I don't consider it work because I just have fun. What am I going to do? Play crappy golf with old men at the country club? Eat chicken sandwiches while discussing gallbladder surgery?

It's much better to have dinner with David Chan.

That's right.

Hang out with you. And also not watching cat videos. Okay, Church.

All right.

Stacy, it's a great question. The reason it's a great question is because it acknowledges that you have to balance your client service with your marketing. So it's sort of all these pieces about working on the business, not just in the business. So I would just say a rule of thumb is to think about allocating time for marketing and networking. And really that's about scheduling. Whether it's 30% or 50% isn't what's important. What's important is recognize you have to allocate that time and, and doing useful activities. Not cat videos and not Facebook, but also not even random networking events. Right. Useful, meaningful activities in that time. And then, by the way, part of that time, in my opinion, is like carving out what are the right areas for me to be networking or writing content or doing those things that help market my business. Yeah. So discipline.

Yeah, that's very good. Alyssa. I think another piece, Stacy, that's worth mentioning. I like to talk about sort of the life cycle of your business as a coach. And in the early days, I believe that it is most important to focus on what I call sales activities, meaning the actual kind of hand to hand combat. How do you bring in clients? How do you get money in the door? Because otherwise it's not going to fly. So it needs to be either directly meeting with clients, asking for business, doing these important things. That's going to be a lot of what you do early on. But a mistake that many coaches make is once they get successful at that, they keep doing it. They keep doing it. And the problem is that they never begin to reallocate a portion of it to what I call marketing activities, which is developing the long term brand. So over time you want to start doing more and more marketing. Marketing is not going to, you know, and that's, you know, writing articles, it's giving speeches, it's things like that. It's never going to get you a client tomorrow, but it will get you a much bigger and much better client two years or three years or five years down the line.

Peter Drucker said, effective marketing eliminates the need for sales. I can say for myself, I'm not really very good at sales. I don't like sales yet. I'm very good at marketing, so I really don't have to sell them.

Yeah, yeah. So true. That's great. So a question that Julia had, which I think probably a lot of people have grappled with, she's an executive coach. She says executive coaching looks very different across different companies. So how do you think about pitching executive coaching services. Because sometimes you're pitching to HR people, sometimes it's learning and development, sometimes it might be people who are actually heading up different units. How do you even think about knowing who the right person is or how do you break in? I know you've done a lot of this, Alyssa.

Yeah. And what I have discovered is not about pitching. Right. It's about building and finding, identifying the right relationships who are high enough in the organization to be decision makers. So it's really about networking your way there. And as you are networking your way there, you will discover inevitably who are the decision makers. Is it an L and D? Is it an hr? A lot of companies I work in, especially these days, the CEO meets me, the CEO wants to work with me, and the CEO then sends me over to HR or L and D or whoever to order, organize the paperwork. And that's the position you want to be in where the executive, him or herself is bringing you in. So thinking about how you build reputation in that way and in the meantime, navigating by virtue of making a positive impression so people continue to want to sort of refer you along inside of the company. One thing I want to say is that patience is required for large public companies if you want to navigate in that way. So recognize you have to have a lot of patience and a lot of follow up and persistence. That's not bad, right? Consider that to be, again, a way to make sure that they don't miss out on hiring you. That's the way I think about it.

One question I get from young coaches a lot, since I have a PhD is should I get a PhD and me a lot of that is just how old are you? Getting a PhD is an exercise in humility. And it takes five years for a good school. If you can get into a good school and you're willing to put up with it, and you're young. When I say young, I mean recent college graduate young. Because if you're 21 years old, you're probably not going to get much coaching business anyway. So if you're 22 years old, 25 years old, 28 young, I would say it could be fun and you enjoy it, do it. Realize it is very, very hard. It takes a long time. On the other hand, you have it the rest of your life. On the other hand, if you're 35, I would say very dubious because I don't think it's necessary for the job, number one. And number two, it is just a painful process.

Yeah, great point, Marshall. And in Fact, even if your goal is teaching, it's not always necessary. I started out my career actually getting turned down by the doctoral programs that I applied to, all of them. So I have a master's. I don't have a doctorate. And nonetheless, one of the great satisfactions in my professional life is that regardless of not having a PhD, I teach regularly. I've taught the past six years for the Fuqua School of Business at Duke and for business schools on actually four different continents. So I do a lot of work with Skolkovo in Russia. I've taught for IE in Spain, for ACE in France. So it's really not necessary if you build up your credibility in other ways. So, excellent point on that. So another question that came in from Jenna is she wants to know tips on growing your brand through writing and getting your work published with prestigious online outlets. How do you make connections and inroads with editors and current contributors?

Gosh Dory, that sounds like a question maybe for you.

I can tackle it. Jenna. Yes, I actually offer an online course about this called Writing for High Profile Publications. So I have a lot to say about it. So certainly this is a really valuable activity when it comes to developing your own credibility and your own social proof. It's a strategy that I've used. Over the past decade. I have written more than 190 articles for the Harvard Business Review. I've done more than 250 for Forbes, and it has brought in a huge percentage of my business because people find me that way and come seek me out. So what I would say as a few initial tips for you in getting started, number one, the most important thing is making sure that you familiarize yourself with the editorial voice of that publication. If you want to break in somewhere, read it religiously. And don't just read it like, oh, that's a good article. Break it down and understand what the authors are doing. How many words are the piece? What are the topics that they're writing about or not writing about? How do they formulate the headlines? You know, is it kind of a teaser headline, like, you'll never believe what so and so did, or. Or is it a list? Is it five ways to be a better leader? Or is it somehow like Harvard Business Review, for instance, often likes a formulation of, like, what to do when. So it's kind of like a tip, what to do when your colleague does. Blah, blah. That's a way that they often do it. So really deep familiarization with your target publication is key. And in terms of breaking in, of course, like most things, one of the best things that you can do is cultivate a warm lead. So understand who in your network LinkedIn is very good for this or Facebook people post things. Who in your network writes for these publications? And reach out to them, ask them for their tips. If you are, if you're really close, you can say like, hey, hey, Alyssa, will you introduce me to your editor? But if you're, if you're not that close, that can be a little bit the headlines, you know, is it kind of a teaser headline? Like you'll never believe what so and so in position sometimes. But you can always say, hey, Alyssa, I want to write for you such and such publication. I know you do. Can you give me advice and then see where she takes it? Those are a couple of quick thoughts off the top of my head, Alyssa.

And Marshall, I'd like to just add to that because Dori, that's very astute advice. And really I learned everything I know from Dory Clark on this topic. And just to say that I started writing for my own blog. And right now, these days we have so many opportunities to write for your own blog or LinkedIn or medium to post. Now, the reason you want to do that is not because that's high profile. It's not. However, it gives you clips, it gives you something to show other people. It also, frankly, helps you learn. And also as you promulgate that to other people, they begin to notice you. They might invite you to write for their publication. I know when I started writing for my own blog and I started writing for LinkedIn, that gave me enough credibility that when I met the publisher of Worth at an event, I summed up my courage and I said I'd like to be able to write for. And wouldn't, you know, they had an opportunity because specifically they were looking for their leadership curriculum. So it's opportunity in terms of being willing to ask, but also I had something to show them so they knew about my writing.

Yeah, that's right on. In fact, that reminds me, Alyssa, you know, it's opportunity, you know, plus preparation. A woman named Nahiya, who took my Writing for High Profile Publications course actually wrote me a few weeks ago with a story. She said that she had been taking the course and listening to it on her commute every day. And she went to an event and she met someone who was a staffer at the World Economic Forum. And because she was ready, she said she never would have been ready before, but it was in her head, like writing for high profile publications. She talked to this person, she said, how can I write for your blog? And she actually, the post went up. She was able to write this post for the World Economic Forum blog about. I think it was about some aspect of artificial intelligence. Super cool. But it's so important to be ready when that moment strikes.

Yeah. Can I just add something to that? Because one of these questions on here is also like top tips. And one of these top tips is like, go for it. Right? Put yourself in position, be willing to ask when you need to, and ready yourself every day to kind of get over your obstacles and internal, internal bad talk and make it into good talk.

That's great. Anything else you wanted to add, Marshall?

I think it was great.

All right. Amazing. So Julie had a question. She is just getting started. I mean, this is one we all face. She says, I'm just starting my practice. How do I differentiate myself when there are already so many executive coaches out there? What do you think of that, Marshall? How did you differentiate yourself and what would you advise, Marshall?

It was great.

Alright. Amazing. So Julie had a question. She is just getting started. I mean, this is one we all face. She says, I'm just starting my practice. How do I differentiate myself when there are already so many executive coaches out there? What do you think of that, Marshall? How did you differentiate yourself and what would you advise someone who is just breaking in today?

Well, I only get paid for results and a lot of people ask me about that and it takes a certain amount of nerve, but I've always done that. I've only paid for results and that's.

Someone who is just breaking in today.

Well, I only get paid for results and a lot of people ask me about that and it takes a certain amount of nerve, but I've always done that. I've only paid for results and that's sort of a differentiator. Totally not the only people do that, so that's one way I differentiate. Sort of a differentiator. Totally not the only people do that. So that's one way I differentiated myself.

Yeah, that's great. Yeah. So it's a totally different value proposition. Alyssa, how do you think about differentiation?

Well, I don't think about the other coaches out there. I really don't. I think about building my practice, building my content and then building my relationship.

Yeah, that's great. Yeah. So a totally different value prop position. Alyssa, how do you think about differentiating?

Well, I don't think about the other coaches out there. I really don't. I think about building my practice, building my content and then building my relationship specifically with the right people. Then if you call it differentiation, what I tend to do is I say, I'm going to add value in 20 minutes. When we sit down and have an initial discussion, I want to add. I want to add value in 20 minutes, and that is very practical. So then they want to work with me. So I'm not thinking about all the other coaches out there. I'm just thinking about how can I add value to you right here and right now?

Yeah, that's terrific. Thank you very much, Alyssa. And so another question that came in here, and was there a particular question you were drawn to, Marshall?

I say hi to Bill and Rafael, a couple of friends of mine. Yeah.

Hi, guys.

Questions coming in. That's great. Excellent. So Kate had a question that I think is interesting and probably on some people's minds. She wants to know, do you recommend cold calling? And is cold calling ever helpful? Does that work? And my quick answer is, no, I don't think it's a good idea at all. I mean, could it work? I mean, I guess it could. You know, I mean, there's a lot of things that could work, but it is going to be a heck of a lot of effort because essentially, you are. Are just reaching out to people who don't know. You may not even really be looking for a coach. You know, knock, knock, knock. And so it puts you in a really defensive position of, like, having to prove yourself. And part. A key part of my philosophy is always, you want to turn the table such that you don't have to prove yourself. You want to get people to seek you out. That's the goal.

That's the goal. Yeah.

How do you think about that, Marshall?

I've never done it before. Yeah.

So it's okay. No, on cold calling, Alyssa, I'm not saying no.

I'm just saying I might say, I don't know. I've never done it before.

I just want. I guess I want to say two things. If you're asking the question, I suspect you're not that inclined to cold call. And so it might be kind of miserable, and it might not be the best use of your time and energy. That said, I have a colleague I knew back in Boston. She built her entire practice with cold calling. She loved it. I also met somebody who did the Sanders sales process, and he loved cold calling. So if you love cold calling, do it fantastic. Otherwise, there are easier ways with less energy and more reward to build your practice.

I like Jenny. Jenny says she likes my niche. Go for it. Jenny, go for it.

Great.

So SP writes in with a question. SP wants to know how do I get my initial beta clients? You know, the people that I might coach for free. Like, you know, where do you, where do you find them? And then how do you actually get them to agree to give you a testimonial? What is that? What does that process look like in practice? Lyssa, how do you do it?

Well, when you're offering your services to individuals for free, there is a target rich environment out there. So my advice is to ask your colleagues and friends who will be great people to coach. So don't forget you want to get results. You want to have people who you enjoy working with and people who are likely to refer you. You tell your friends and colleagues that that's who you're looking for. The second thing is that when you set up the engagement, it's free, it's delineated. So it's five sessions or eight sessions or some number like that. And it's also the exchanges after this, I'm going to ask you for a reference or a testimonial and then at the end of that process, five sessions or eight sessions or whatever it is it is. I love working with you. What have you gotten out of it? This is a key question. What have you gotten out of this process? And they can tell you all these things and you say that sounds really valuable and they agree it's super valuable. Write it down for sure. And then say if you want to continue, we can discuss that and we can talk about a financial arrangement for that.

I like that. If you look at my book triggers, 27 major CEOs endorse that book. 27 advertisements for me. And you know, to me, your clients, if you do a good job, they should be more than happy to kind of help you out. I got another good question here.

How do I, five sessions or eight sessions or whatever it is. It is. I love working with you. What have you gotten out of it? This is a key question. What have you gotten out of this process? And they can tell you all these things and you say that sounds really valuable. And they agree it's super valuable. Write it down for sure. And then say if you want to.

Continue, we can discuss someone from Germany. How do I really find great people from other countries that.

And we can talk about a financial arrangement for that.

I like that. If you look at my book, very America biased or at least Eastern Western biased field right now, I would say one thing is go to my LinkedIn sign up to be a LinkedIn follower. Get on my LinkedIn feed. We're doing a program right now. There's 27 major CEOs endorse that book 27 advertisements for me. And you know, to me, your clients, if you do a good job, they should be more than happy to kind of help you out. I got another good question here. How do I suffer? 60 of the top coaches in the world and I'm going to feature all of them on LinkedIn. Someone from Germany, how do I really find great people from other countries? And they are from all around the world. They can be from Europe, from Asia, from Southeast Asia. We have one Saudi, Saudi Arabian woman, very good, very big diversity here.

So she can even drive to you now.

And so, you know, very America biased, or at least Eastern, Western biased field right now, I would say one thing is go to my LinkedIn sign up to be a LinkedIn follower, get on my LinkedIn feed. We're doing a program right now. It, it's very important, I think, to get to know these people and some of these people from different countries. To me, that's the way I always feel. It's an honor somebody reaches out to you and says, I respect what you're doing. I'd like to get to know you more. It's always a positive thing for me. So if you have somebody from France or Germany and you're from that country, or we have over 60 of the top coaches in the world and I'm going to feature all of them on LinkedIn and they are from all around the world. They're going to be from Europe, from Asia, from Southeast Asia. We have one Saudi, Saudi Arabian woman, very good, very big diversity here.

So she can even drive to you now.

And so, you know, Thailand, Malaysia, China, a lot of different Japan, a lot of different places. It's very important, I think, to get to know these people and some of these people from different countries. To me, that's the way I always feel. It's an honor somebody reaches out to you and says, I respect what you're doing, I'd like to get to know you more. It's always a positive thing for me. So if you have what's the worst can happen, they just say no. I find most coaches, for whatever reason, I've never quite understood this. I think most coaches are very nice people. I know it's not bad. It's not a bad thing. I'm never quite understood why most psychiatrists don't find to be that particularly nice. I try to think it's a factor being in coping profession. But for whatever reason, most coaches tend to be very nice people, very helpful people. And yeah, you can't win them all. I mean, every field has a few jerks. But most people, I think if you reach out to them and you're warm and friendly and you say you respect them, you've read them.