What We Actually Say When Deadlines Slip and Feedback Is Vague

Woo! Lily, Joanna, and I got a message from a client after our last episode that honestly made me tear up. She said we were doing something book-worthy in how we communicate. And she very specifically said, if you do this again, can you give examples of words that you use? Because it's one thing to discuss how we communicate and how we work together, but yes, We can get so much more specific because words matter. And so today in this episode, we're going to show you like literally some role-playing here, what it actually sounds like when things go sideways, when things are going great, when we get things confused and how we talk through it. So we brought some quotes. Hey Joanna.

Hey Lily.

Hello.

We're just gonna get right into it and I'm gonna kick us off because sometimes we're working on a project together. It's creative, it's writing, it's a landing page, whatever. And I just don't like it. And sometimes you don't have words for things like that. And sometimes I'll just say, I don't like it. I don't, that's all I got right now.

Yep, that happens. Giving creative feedback is so challenging. I feel like I don't always have the vocabulary for it too. If I was receiving that feedback from you, tell me more about that, you know, what— point out some specifics for me. And sometimes it's hard, and even saying like, just the vibe of the hero or the font makes me feel this energy and I want this energy, I think pulling out as much detail as we possibly can to conceptualize, like, this is what I don't like, and then giving examples. This is what I prefer, more in this direction, I think. Not this, but that is super helpful.

Does it annoy you when someone doesn't have specific feedback? Is it annoying? Do you feel— do you take offense to it?

No, I would never take offense. Well, not never. I would usually not take offense to something like that because I would never assume that it's personal. We're trying to work towards the same common goal. So I would not take offense, I think, and I wouldn't be annoyed either. I think it's more helpful when we have a direction to move towards, like, I prefer this, or sharing alternatives. Anything that gets us towards the goal is good for me.

Something I notice you do, Lily, you're really good at this, is if Amber comes in and says, I don't know, I just don't like it, or there's something that feels off, you don't just go, tell me more, which is pretty open. You will say, tell me more, but you'll say, 'Yeah, I like it, but you know, this yellowish color, there's something about that that I don't like.' You kind of give her some jumping off points to go from. You layer in your feedback as well, like, 'Yeah, I wasn't sure about this,' or, 'Yeah, I really love this, but I don't love this.' So you layer in your thoughts so that if Amber doesn't know what she doesn't like necessarily, she has a springboard to jump off from, and then she can reply to your specific points. 'No, I really like that yellowy cream color. It's something here.' So you really— you help us drill down into it. And whereas I don't know anything about design, I approach every landing page and opt-in and everything from conversion. Is the form where it needs to be? Is the button the right size? Is it going to look good on mobile? So I can come in and layer in those aspects, but from a design standpoint and that stuff, you definitely give us like the jumping off point of things to talk through.

That's a really good tip too. Yeah.

Yeah. And building on that, I think something else that we all do is focus it in. Okay, you don't like it. Good. This is a good starting point. What about the headline? Okay, what about the body paragraph? What about the photos? So you can start to distill it into its parts versus the whole, which is cool.

Yeah. Joanna, I wonder what would your response be to something like that for copy? Like, ugh, I don't like this. What, how do you move forward with that?

I just say I don't like it. I'll say like, oh, this is, you know what I always try to do? I try to always frame it with a, positive, like, I love that you took the initiative to do this, or like, thank you so much for jumping in and picking this up because truly, thank you, because that gives me something to work from. But I'll say, I think we can do better here, or this line feels like you're asking me to do too much work in the copy and I don't want it to feel that way. If someone else is writing copy or someone else is doing the work, like, thank you so much for giving me something to work with to begin with, and I really appreciate it. And I'll call out the things that I really love, like, oh, this line is so specific and it's so good. This This line I think needs some work. And then I probably will layer in some suggestions. Here's what I think we could do.

It's interesting because you're talking about what is positive, identifying the good. Thank you for taking the initiative on that. Even if the rest is terrible. Okay. I recognize that there was initiative taken and then closing with something positive. This is sometimes referred to in communication as the positive sandwich and people don't necessarily like it. This is a controversial thing and I am still a fan of it. I've read critiques of it and I can appreciate some of the critiques.

Weeks.

Like, let's just get to it. And sometimes, yeah, we're just gonna get to it. But also sometimes when you're moving fast, if you can take those moments, you're like, you know what, thanks for running with this. I could be more clear and let me clarify, or let me ask some questions about this. Thank you for following up on it. It is simple to close with gratitude, positive note, and open with that and just frame it so that it feels good. Especially through the internet and when everybody's moving fast, just taking that beat I think is helpful.

Yeah, it's interesting because we've had some consultants come in who have a very different communication style than we do, and I— they don't do the necessarily the positive sandwich. They just come in and say what they need, and it's very direct. And I also appreciate that. You're just telling me exactly what you need, and there's no offense taken to that. It's like, okay, you're just communicating what you need. You're moving quickly, probably, you know. And so I see the value of both.

I would definitely consider myself a get-it-done person. I I sometimes don't enjoy the brainstorming phase of things. Okay, can I start now? Like, can I do it now? Can we get it going? And I have to hold myself back from that. But I don't find like the positive sandwich or taking time to compliment someone or affirm work that somebody did is like hindering that. I think rapport and positive affirmations, I think that is productive and gets us to the goal faster. So that's just like a funny take on it.

Anecdote. I mean, we know research supports that when you take time to plan, and this may fall into that space, when you take time to nurture a relationship, you're gonna get better results from that relationship. If you're in a work environment and you're looking for results, but when you take time to plan, you're gonna get through the implementation faster. And it's funny, I was working with our social media manager Božena this morning here in Zagreb, and we were like, oh man, this is taking us a while. We were like 2 hours into our 3-hour session. We hadn't recorded anything. We're just going through the plan, talking through the content. Then we started recording. We're like, oh, that was fast. It only took us 40 minutes and we thought we needed much longer. But because we planned and we had a strategy, we were like, boom, boom, boom, knocking it out. So yeah, take that time. It's different topic, but since you brought it up, Lily, I had to go there.

I love that.

I'm gonna transition us to something related to schedules. And this is something I've said before. I'm so sorry, I'm not going to get that done. Am I messing up our schedule? How do you reply to that when yes, you're messing up our schedule?

I might come to it from a different— depending on the situation, immediately just what came into my mind is like, okay, why? Like, was something else eating another project, taking priority? Do we need to shift things? And then coming back to Okay, here's our shared goal. Here's what we're working to. Here's what we're hoping to achieve. This is the impact of missing this deadline, or this is the impact of that. Here's the trickle-down effect. And then following up with the solution. Here's how we, you know, here's our options. Here's how we stay on track. Here's how we need to pivot. I think staying really action-oriented and solution-oriented in messages like that, that's okay, but here's what that means and here's what we have to do next. So, so you don't get lost in that spiral of things being laid and then just projects somehow falling into the abyss. We want to stay on track to the best of our ability. Yeah, and that requires context and communication.

So good. Joanna, yeah, what would you add?

I was going to layer in, it also is an opportunity when any of us say that, where can I jump in and how can I help? That's always my thought. Like, we have a channel in our Slack app for my week, and it's not like religious. We're not in there every week typing every single thing that we're doing. But when we have busy weeks, when we have a lot of things cooking, I mean, that's typically when I use the channel the most. Like, okay, I just I just need to lay this out and I want everyone to have insight in what I'm doing. And then if I have questions around things— earlier this week, Amber had quite a long thing in my week. It went on forever. So I went through that list and immediately was like, what can I pick up? How can I help? So that there isn't that feeling of I've got so much on my plate, or I don't know if I'm gonna get to this. There are simple things that I can pick up and do. So let me ask a couple clarifying questions and then pick it up and go with it. So to try to even avoid that to begin with, when I see someone's my week list is crazy long, I go, okay, what can I pick Pick up and how can I help?

That was actually amazing. Joanna said, what does this item entail? Was setting up emails for our referral partners to invite people to the AI clone team. And what are you thinking there? And I shared what I was thinking and I'm like, you, you got that? And she's like, yeah, yeah, no problem. And then, but she shared it yesterday. So Monday it was on my list. Joanna saw, oh. What is that one? I think I can, I think I know, and I think I've got that. And yesterday she shared it. Today I reviewed it and already shared it with a partner.

So moving. It's Wednesday. That's fast.

And it's Wednesday. 3 days turnaround time. I mean, there are a lot of reasons we're moving fast right now and teamwork is one of them. Thank you.

I will say being on the other side of that, Joanna, it feels so nice even just knowing that you're there and it just helps lighten the load a lot and it helps like we're all in this together and you showing up like you guys, so appreciate it. It makes such a difference.

Thank you. But we all do that for each other, I think. You know, Lily, you're real quick. If I say I can't get to this until Thursday, you'll say, okay, let me— I can get in there today and at least get it started. I'll jump in and say, okay, I can get you started. Or, you know, we try to pick up wherever we can. So anytime someone says, I'm really sorry, I— this is going to mess us up, but I don't have— we just immediately go, okay, how can we help and what can we do? What can I pick up? Mm-hmm.

Oh, great.

I need this and I need this, or we need to do X, Y, and Z. Is this doable?

Yes, everything is doable. We can do this, but here's what that means, right? If this, it sounds like this is number one, we gotta get this done in 48 hours, you know, whatever, a really quick turnaround. Here's what that means. Here's how that impacts my workload and my task list. I need to reprioritize. I would oftentimes give a suggestion like, here was my 1, 2, 3 for today. This is how that shifts and here's how it impacts the rest of my week. Does that look good? And then somebody may come back with, oh, I did not realize you're still working on this, or that actually is the number 1. Don't change anything, or yes, that looks great. So yeah, again, coming back to, okay, what's, what's our common goal? What's our number 1 goal that we're working towards right now? Here's how this change impacts that. And just being really communicative.

And sometimes I'll even see it in advance. Like, I know we're supposed to be working on this, but can we flip these? And I'll even know bandwidth is a thing, of course. Like we are aware of that. So if I see it, I will try to say proactively, like, I know we were here, can we flip over to this for a second and then come back to that?

I think that's such a strong delegation technique, but just helping people reprioritize too. I know you, you already have all this on your plate. This needs to be bumped to number one at all costs, or where can we fit this in to still meet this deadline? That just helps us get there faster. And it feels better.

Yeah, agreed.

We also have a rule in place around some of our timelines. If there is a process that requires a review, oftentimes we will put in place, if that review timeline comes and goes and the review did not happen, we're moving forward without you. So we kind of set this rule on standard weekly turnkey kind of things that happen on a regular basis, such as publishing this podcast. Everything is prepared for it. It is shared with all of us so anyone can review in advance and you have until this time to review it. And if you, it's just gonna go live. So there have been times where I've opened an email, I'm like, oh, that was spelled wrong. Like that's on me. I did not go in there and review it. It was spelled right, but not right for that situation, that noun, that proper noun. But whatever, what are you gonna do? It is so small in the context of things. So where things matter, but if it doesn't matter enough to slow down the train and put that pressure on your shoulders, there are some things we just turnkey keep moving.

Yeah.

And examples like that, well, if there's something that I have written, I'll just use something like some copy that I've written that I feel like I'm re— I know what I wrote and I know it's not exactly Amber McCue's voice. I know I've sprinkled in a little more of me in there. And typically it's like, you're just go, go run, go, you know, I'll review. But if you don't review, you trust that I, I know your voice. But if there are those moments where I'm, I will try to make it as easy as possible for you to review. Like, hey, this email is going to send on Wednesday. I might tell you that on Monday and want to get your eyes on it. And then maybe it doesn't happen. Then Tuesday happens and I go, okay, let me copy and paste the parts that I have questions about right into a Slack channel to make it super easy. So you don't have to go out and click into the Google Doc and find the da da da. I try to make it as easy as I can for you to review and get eyes on it because, but otherwise it's moving, it's going.

And we know because we know each other so well, we are a values-aligned team. We have brand guidelines and brand values that are pretty clear and consistent that there's not usually anything that's gonna be so far out of bounds, but every now and then I'm like, oh yes, slight change, but nothing.

That's, I feel like a lot of how we communicate is really built on a pretty strong foundation, one of trust, and we assume the best from people, but also we have a pretty strong backbone of systems, clear order of operations, and I'm kind of comparing it to teams where I don't have that level of a strong foundation, and what I would do if I was having some of these conversations with that team or with another team is I would spend a little bit more time overcommunicating. And we talked— we have feelings about this word overcommunicate for sure, but in the least annoying sense, I could spend more time and I would prioritize thinking about how are my words being perceived, how are there miscommunications that could happen. I try to get ahead of it as best I can if I don't have that strong foundation and a really strong understanding of what the other what the person is thinking or the order of operations, things like that.

A little BTS there. We lightly prepped for this workshop. As soon as the message came in from our community member in response to the last podcast, I fired out a bunch of questions. These are words that come up and we reply and we have specific words and ways of approaching them. And we just reviewed those lightly, like 3 minutes before we started recording. And we talked through a couple tips and strategies on communication. And yeah, Lily's like, oh yeah, overcommunicate. She described it and Joanne and I are both like, oh wait, not too much.

I said, okay, I know you're saying overcommunicate and I know exactly what you mean, but I can't help— there's a piece of me that feels like micromanage me. You want to overcommunicate and micromanage me?

Oh, try me. You try me.

You guys have PTSD from that word. Who are you?

I think you're right, but that's an interesting point of view that everyone's bringing their own perspective and past experiences to every message. Right. So yeah, it's interesting. I know that you don't mean that when you say that, overcommunicate, but I— it lands better for me to say clear communication.

Clear communication. Yeah. I'm trying to poke holes in it. Like, where could we get confused? Might I accidentally send you down the wrong path? Extra care.

But you also called out something in that conversation. You do those checks before you send a communication. So where could I be miscommunicating? Where could you identify a gap so that you can be clear up front? And you use— we have a resource that you use. Can you share a little bit about that and the model that you use?

Yes, absolutely. We have a resource called the Delegation Solution. We can try to link it for you, everybody, for listeners too. But I love the Delegation Solution because when we talk about planning and how when we take the time to plan, we'll get to where we want to go faster and we'll have results, I think if we spend just a little bit more time communicating and thinking about the messages we're sending on the fly, we will get better results from that as well. And it might seem like taking a little bit of extra time thinking about your message and thinking about the context, the impact, all of these things to make an effective message, but we're saving ourselves the back and forth that will inevitably come later, right? So the delegation solution is a framework for effective communication and effective delegation. Some of those elements look like things we've already talked about. What's the big picture here? What are we talking about? Like, are we talking about a big launch? What is the meat? What's happening? Clear context, impact of whatever message you're sending. I recognize this. Here's what I think the impact is. Is that correct? Is there something I'm missing? And communicating clear deadlines. I would love for this to happen by this. Is that reasonable? What would you suggest? I really recommend it for anybody who's delegating anything to anyone ever, it saves so much time down the road when you have, again, that really clear foundation and you're talking from the same place.

Okay, so this is good. I'm hearing 5 parts to what you typically check in your head. Confirm the goal, give context to the big picture, clarify what impact will be if we do, don't, when we do these things. Fourth, verify, am I missing anything? And last, deadlines.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's good. Good starting point. Lily uses this so much. She set up an AI clone team member for it. It's Delegating Dorothy. And anytime she goes to delegate something, do you use Delegating Dorothy to run these checks and set this up?

If I'm having a, day where my brain's not working fully and I'm like, I can't, I can't seem to fill all the gaps. Absolutely. I'll say, I'm missing something. This is not clear. Help me make it more clear. But now it's such a, I feel like it's just ingrained in how I communicate. I hopefully it's how I communicate and offload tasks where it's second nature now. But I think I actually would like to add in a positive affirmation after Joanna's note earlier too. We gotta layer that in ending with a positive. Yeah.

Good. Adding part 6.

Okay.

That's good. Positive affirmation. I have a story around things we're— a communication flow. So Joanna and I were in a meeting and Lily, were you in this one when we were talking about the strategy? No, it was just us. That's what I thought. And it's okay. So Joanna and I were talking about a marketing campaign and Joanna said something to the effect of, we gotta get this evergreen. And I said, yes, but I don't mind doing a weekly. I don't mind doing this live all the time. And okay, we kept talking and I was thinking about that later. I'm like, wait, Joanna's right. I just yeah-budded her and I gotta go back and say yes. And you are right. Yes, let's do both. So I went back the next day, we had a follow-up meeting on it and I did that for a couple reasons. Number one, I wanted to make sure Joanna knew like, wait, you were right. Bring that back, put that back on the table. And second, I wanted to reset universal alignment because I feel like I was manifesting the wrong things there. So I wanted to clarify it for that. But thinking about how our words have impact, right? Oh yeah, that is something I want in motion. And we talked about, we're proactively doing things on the team. I want that to come to life. So if someone was gonna take initiative there, I just kiboshed it. Potentially. So all of these things were running through my head. So I'm like, reset, reset. Joanna, what thoughts did you have as that was all unfolding?

Well, for this specific program, we talked about it being evergreen for a while, a little bit there. It was like, okay, this is ultimately the goal. At least that was my understanding, right? So when I said that right after we had done one of the live workshops, and one of the things I know about you, Amber, is live workshops, like with the community are like, you get such good energy and such good juju, and you are feeling it, and you are vibing, and you were like in your element when you were in community like that. So you came out of that workshop like, that was great. And it was great because you're so— you are good at it. It's like a sweet spot for you. It's like really in your zone. But a few minutes before, you were telling me, okay, this week I have this workshop, I have this, this live meeting, I have this, I have to do— I have an Accelerate call, I have Modern CEO. And you were like, this week there's just a lot of meetings. And I was like, well, we're talking about doing this workshop now live every week on top of it. And that's when I had the thought, like, we got to get this evergreen. And you were like, yeah, but no. And I knew in that moment you were just like really enjoying being in community part and you wanted to keep that going because that's such a good feel-good space for you.

So I love it.

I love it.

Yeah. So I just didn't react. I thought, okay, like, okay, well, we'll see where this goes. We'll see. We have been talking about getting evergreen now, maybe not, but that's okay. We'll just I'm very comfortable and like, let me just sit in this space for a minute and see what happens before any reaction.

So yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that's something we're all thinking about in the back of our minds, like, okay, eventually this is where we want to go. So as we're setting up systems and processes and Joanna's managing everything on the back end, she's thinking about that like, okay, this is something that could happen one day. How am I setting myself up for success there?

And it goes back to that clear communication.

Exactly.

Yeah, that'll be clear. Yeah, I said yes, but right now, but like, that's not what I meant. I meant yes to all of it.

Joanna, I feel like in general you've always been such like a clear communicator, specifically like written communication. I feel like you have the best SOPs, the best instructions, all of the things. Is there anything that goes into your mind when you really want to communicate something clearly and make sure they get it?

Thank you for that, Lily. I think that comes from— I was 17 years old when I was a corporate trainer for a restaurant, and they were sending me all over the country to train new staff. And the training materials they gave me were so good because they were a big corporate thing, and I really learned you have to break things down into the smallest parts, and you cannot assume that anyone knows anything about what you're talking about. You have to present it to someone like they don't know the system. Don't use acronyms like we use Funnel Gorgeous, right? And I might type FG, but someone new or someone who's going to be like, what the heck is FG? Breaking things down into their smallest part and looking for any of those like kind of things that you know innately that someone else may not know. So I always think about that when I'm describing something to someone. And I think that comes from my days of being a corporate trainer.

Yeah. That makes total sense. Being someone who's read those SOPs and worked from them. Yeah. It's so helpful to have that clarity because Yeah, anybody, if one of us goes on vacation and we need to step in somewhere, you know, we can have full trust that we have the documentation to do something we've never done before. Maybe that's super helpful.

Thank you. And I also put links wherever I can. Like if I'm talking about a document or I'm talking about a system or I'm talking about a thing, I'm gonna link you right to it. You're not gonna have to go searching for it. Here's the link right to what I'm talking about.

That is gold. That is just such a kindness to give people anywhere on the internet.

That's it.

Just here's a link, quick reference, linked it up because if I have it open right there and I'm going to ask you a question about it and you're going to read, go search for it, go get it. Let's just help everybody out. Share the links.

Share the love. That's the worst thing ever. We were like, oh, it's going to take me 15 minutes just to get that spreadsheet.

My favorite thing to do is just put a line that says, for ease, here's the link.

Mine's for quick reference. Yeah, but ease is shorter. Joanna, speaking of great communication, we are bantering about something really fun. Yesterday?

Yesterday afternoon for me. Like, yeah, I was sitting in a workshop and an idea went off. And so I'm in a workshop, not related with Amber, but in a different workshop. And I sent her a message about just something cool we need to do.

And I said, yes. And Joanna said, I'm in. Let's get emails to our list. And then we continued on the conversation and I said, we have it ready to go. We can pick the dates. Plan ahead. And I noticed that you said, let's get emails to our list. Do you feel— I also thought about it as you were typing it.

I thought about it after I hit— I didn't think about it typing it, but after I sent it, I said, oh, that's interesting that I said our list when it's Amber's business. Really, it's Amber's list. But it made me immediately reflect, like, I talk about everything in that way. It's our list. Our community, our— I know you don't. Not always.

Maybe not always.

You're—

it stood out at me when you typed it here because you don't always— somebody— your list, your workshop. But I noticed it here. I'm like, she said our list. And I told you on— I told you coming into this, I'm like, I'm gonna tell you how I felt about that because I did notice in the text. And I love it.

Oh, good.

It's my favorite thing. It is ours. And we're all working on it together. We are building this together. I love it when it gets to the point where like, oh no, this is our— yeah, it's our—

exactly.

It's for all of us. It's for our community, it's for our team, it's for our partners and our colleagues. So I loved the R. Oh, good.

Yeah, I was aware of it when I did it, and I thought, oh, I wonder how that's— but I know that you're not like— you're not like a take ownership in the like secret squirrelly kind of way. Like, you can't know what— you can't— that's not how you operate.

So I am the opposite. Someone asked me a question, I'm like, yes, I've been waiting to tell you.

Emma Greer has been doing a lot of promotion for her book recently, and I saw her talk about what she's looking for when interviewing someone. And one of the biggest things she said is that they take agency over their results. And it's an interesting contrast because yes, I love that. I love when people take ownership and agency. But she said she listens for when they say, I accomplished, or we the team accomplished. And she really strongly prefers, I did this, it was my accomplishment, I ran with it, I did it. And she does not prefer the alternative. She thinks that, from what I understood, it almost diminishes what your contribution was. So it's an interesting, interesting there.

I think it can, but I would argue that it depends on what was your actual role. And what did we do versus what did I do? Like, I am very clear on what I do. I'm checking, I'm checking those boxes. I, like, I know what I am doing, but there's also a big we element. And I also think if you are in leadership, there is more we than there is I. So I think it also depends on the role that the person may be coming into. And I love that you brought this up because that's something to watch for as we're interviewing. And bringing people onto the team. And how do you respond to this? What is a reaction? We all may receive this differently in our cultures. And what's the right blend for you in your culture as you listen to this?

Yeah, that's a great one. Like knowing what you did and respecting and just being excited about your accomplishments, but also credit where credit's due. We all did this. It was awesome. So what's the balance there?

Interesting.

Uh, we just had a reflection. I reflected on something. Amber, you have actually, at one point, I can't remember when this was, you called me out on the not using our language. You were like, Joanna, lately I've been hearing you say things like your workshop or your something. And I can't even remember what that was in relation to. And I remember thinking, oh, that's so interesting. I hadn't realized I was doing that because I think about it in terms of our, but you called it out. And I remember being like, oh, and I think that speaks to leadership also. If you desire the team to think about things in that way, then when you aren't hearing that or you aren't seeing that, to bring it up in conversation.

Yeah.

Because I remember thinking, oh, you know what? I just have so much on my plate right now. Like I remember in that moment I had so many different projects, so many different things spinning. And I was thinking about in terms of my calendar and the way I block my calendar. This is Amber McCue time. This is this company time. This is this time. It wasn't so much our, and you called me on it. On it. And I remember, oh, thanks for— yeah, thanks for calling me out on that. It's not intentional.

That's something I'm not checked out.

I'm in.

Because it could be a reflection of a number of things, like are you separating from it, or are you just busy and you're dividing and conquering? But it was a shift, so it gave me an opportunity to inquire.

Interesting.

How do you receive it when I asked?

I thought it was insightful, and it helped me to reflect on, well, why did I do that? And then realize, like, I am just— my head is barely keep above water right now. So I am thinking about projects in terms of who needs my time and when they need my time, and not so much me being a part of that work. I'm doing the work, but not being a part of the R of it all.

The huge difference, right? That language reflects context. And what is that context? It's not good, it's not bad. Maybe it is good, maybe it is bad, depending on what the situation is. In this case, it's just a season. It was a busy season.

Yeah. I think a lot of that does still come back to leadership style, right? Like if you want people to take ownership and to have the confidence to share impact of a deadline change or something being late and be willing to go above and beyond and flag those things, you need to give them the confidence and the trust to do so and the agency to do so. And you're really incredible at that as a leader. Like even our VA team, shout out to Eliza, she takes so much agency and is just super proactive and a lot of that is just trusting her. Like, we believe in you, you've got this, you know what needs to happen. And I think you do a really great job of that, sharing it and be like, yeah, you can do it and mistakes are gonna happen, we'll contain them and we'll fix them. And it's just a great feeling, a great culture, and it makes us more productive.

I feel like we get a lot done. We're cruising. So thanks for that. It's fun working with you and our entire team. I am so curious, as you are listening to this, What struck you? Did you agree with something? Did you disagree with something? Did you reflect on a way that you use words and communicate with your team? Is there something you want to shift? Is there something that you heard that you don't like that we do, that you're like, oh, stark contrast, no, my culture is different? Those are all things to make a note of and start to weave into your dynamics with your team and in your communications, because each of these individual communications adds up to what becomes your company culture and impacts how you operate, your productivity, etc. So we hope to hear from you on this. We hope this was helpful. And Joanna Lilly, thank you again.

Thank you.

Yeah, see you next time.