Dignity Through Work: Julie Colombino-Billingham on the Power of Sustainable Livelihoods

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Step into the world of success with Your Brand Amplified, the ultimate podcast designed to unravel the intricacies of thriving businesses. I'm your host, Anika Jackson, and I'm on a mission to uncover the stories, strategies, and secrets that have propelled entrepreneurs and business leaders to success. Julie Columbina Bellingham didn't set out to build a luxury fashion brand, she set out to answer one sentence a woman said to her in a tent camp in Haiti: I don't need water, I need a job. That sentence became Doumain, now the only women-owned solar-powered factory in Port-au-Prince, Haiti, with partners including the UN, Kenneth Cole, Eileen Fisher, Nordstrom, so many brands that we all have heard of and admire. And Julie, you are doing work that is so needed. Right now, I think about fast fashion, I think about all the things that people are putting out, and you really truly have created something that is a brand that's providing jobs, providing products that we can all love and care for and have for a long time. And you've built an entire business out of this. So thank you very much for coming on Your Brand Amplified.

Oh my gosh, thank you so much for having me. It's really quite an honor to get to share our story. With your listeners and with you.

I, I mean, I have chills, but as I've been reading about it and thinking about it and being able to bring you on, can you talk a little bit about that moment in the tent camp? What were you doing there and what did you actually see and hear that changed your trajectory?

Oh my gosh, it does feel like it was 100 years ago. It was 16 years ago. And so I was a young, I mean, I guess not too young, I was in my 30s, but younger in my disaster response career, and I was just really interested in the alleviation of human suffering. And so whatever that meant, and that being a disaster responder, that usually means, you know, deploying during times of immediate crisis and not really thinking much further along than that immediate situation. And what the women of Haiti taught me was to think about the long-term effects of not only what we were doing, but of the situation of poverty. And what was, and you know, why why natural disasters are exasperated in these countries and how these things happen. And so, you know, I felt that being dripped on me throughout the first few months of my deployment into Haiti. I felt like something was off, something was wrong. You know, the people kept, you know, just, there was something about their motivation to build back, to fix, to get things better. And we just, for whatever reason, the system wasn't aligning. And it really took that one day, it was about 3 and a half months into my deployment when the woman said, She really, what she said was, white lady, I don't want any water, but I need a job. And it was, it was literally, I got chills all over my body, and I was just like, it's exactly what needs to happen here. And so, it did change the trajectory of my deployment, of my life, of every— everything about my life changed that day.

Because before, you had been thinking about continuing in the lines, the reason you were there initially.

Right?

You, you wanted to serve people in that way, and that's something that we often think about. I used to want to be in the Peace Corps when I was younger. I mean, I'd still love to help people in different ways, but often, yes, they need water, yes, they need shelter, but they really need a livelihood. They need a sense of purpose and something that will continue to pour into their families and community.

Exactly, exactly.

So then how did that go from this little seed that was planted into A factory and this entire business?

Oh my gosh. Well, it has taken 16 years to build, and, you know, some of the incredible partnerships that you named off, I mean, they have, some of them have just happened within the last 12 months. You know, I mean, this is something that has taken years and years, I mean, over a decade to build. But I would say initially, we opened our first, like, workshop and training center on August 14th, 2010. So about 8 months after the earthquake. And really, it's so, like, really saddens me to always tell this part of the story, but that woman in the tent camp that said she wanted a job and not water, I actually never her again. I was in this huge tent camp and, you know, never— so she changed my life forever and I never saw her again. But it got people, you know, starting to know me as the, oh, who's the white girl who wants to do job creation? Who is that hoarder? And so people were talking about it. And then one day somebody said, I met this lady. Her name is Jolina Daroche and she is this strong, dynamic Haitian woman and she's talking about jobs and all these things and you two should meet. And Jolena, who is my business partner, who I met about 6 months after the earthquake, until this very day, she now runs the factory in Haiti. And, um, we work together because she was so passionate about job creation as well. And so it took, it took really the local insight. That's how we built the company. So it really didn't happen of just me coming in and thinking I knew how to start a business. It was the local leadership that led the way and paved the path and built the foundation for what is Domette today.

Yeah.

So talk about what it is today. You know, where did you start and being solar powered and, you know, women-owned business and building in a community that still has a lot of strife?

Oh yeah. Well, you know, we've changed manufacturing centers dramatically. So in 2010, we were basically in this shack. It was a lean-to and a tarp, and it was literally pieces of wood and some tarpaulin. And it, you know, and there was mosquitoes and it was terrible. And it was this little tiny, smaller than like a normal kitchen. It was this terrible little spot that we had. And then we moved into a rather larger space and it was recycled containers, like shipping containers. And about in 2018, the USAID, when that was, you know, still existed, they said that they had heard about this manufacturing company in Haiti and they wanted to invest in it. And so the first thing that they did was they said, your space is way too small, you know, for an investable you know, venture for the, you know, for USAID. So they really challenged me to think bigger and say, okay, what do you really want? What do you, where do you want to be? Where do you guys see yourself in the future? And so it was things like, if there's anything that we can do to build this business that will be kinder to people and the planet, let's do it. And so that's where like this idea of like being solar powered and, you know, using locally sourced materials and being as kind as we can to the planet as well. Although our number one priority is creating great dignified jobs, Why not? If you're going to build something, do all of the good things that you can. And then not to mention, Haiti doesn't have electricity, so everything runs off generators and petrol is really expensive. So this was actually a financial decision too, so that we wouldn't be, you know, married to this system of generators and petrol and all of this. So we're solar powered and our factory has consistent energy. We're in the Caribbean, you know, so it just, it really just made sense. And today. You know, we, we are this, we call it like a fair trade luxury handbag brand that went from, you know, that, you know, certainly didn't start that way. We certainly weren't making, um, pieces that could be sold at Nordstrom 15 years ago. But today the craftsmanship and the talent and the creativity and the artistry has really shown through in the artisans' designs. And then also in the way that we've been able to communicate what our brand is to the rest of the world, you know, but it's taken— Forever to do that.

Yeah, it's such a, it's a such a journey, right?

Yeah.

So you started with one inkling of an idea. I love the fact that you, you had to move places, that you did get funding when it was available, that you had the, the thought, okay, how do we make sure we can generate electricity? And then how did you decide leather? How did you decide the craftsmanship? And did you find people immediately who could operate a business, right? Who could manage the floor? Who could be the craftspeople? How did that all build? Because it's, it's not easy for any business, but to have a business in Haiti as well, right? And have to think about all of this as people are going through strife.

Well, you won't believe this, but our first product was actually recycled tire sandals. So I had met someone, um, when I was a missionary in Africa in 2006, so years before the earthquake. And I had seen people making and selling recycled tire sandals. And that was actually the first product that we made at Noma. It was these sandals. And because they had, there was a leather tannery, um, it doesn't exist anymore. A lot of businesses no longer exist, but back in the day there was a tannery in Haiti. So the, the leather was local. And there were tires everywhere because there was not, not a proper waste management system. And so we made for almost a decade, we made and sold these sandals. One of our first export customers was Ron Jon Surf Shop. You know, I mean, it was, it was a pretty— Pretty cool, you know, little thing that we had going on. And then as time went on, it was like tires were harder to come by because of the civil strife. Tires are used a lot in protests in Haiti, so we were no longer allowed to collect and recycle tires. So it really changed the business model. And we'd already started making small leather goods with our leather excess waste. So we were trying to not be a zero-waste company, but try to reduce our waste as much as possible. And then we just really had to focus on the handbags and To answer the other part of your question, yes, we did have some artisans that were, were talented, incredibly trained, you know, really creative people that came into the factory, but was as our business model is we train and grad— we train and graduate, you know, vulnerable youth. And so we kind of mix the two together and then they train the youth that go through our nonprofit program. And it's just kind of been this combination of, of both the talented with the emerging artists. So, they've really designed everything and the transition from like the tire sandals to the luxury leather bags has, I mean, that also has taken years. So, but I, I know it sounds like, oh yeah, we just, we just made this decision, but no, it took years to develop for sure.

Yeah. And it's truly, it's a labor of love for you and just putting all of this together and then thinking about, all right, so you have a nonprofit in place, You still need to make money that you can pour back into the programs, but then also you have to have an income and all the people working have to have strong incomes as well, right?

Yeah.

The marketing expenses, I mean, shipping, supply chain. I'm just thinking about all these different issues that you've had to deal with that are just amplified even more because of the unrest and other natural disasters. So how have you— I mean, you have to have a certain amount of tenacity, perseverance, you and the business itself. How did you— because, and you're coming across with grace, right? So, so talk to us a little bit about that. How have you managed to keep a smile on your face in times of, I'm sure, lots of more transition than all the transition you've just shared?

Yeah, I can honestly say that there's been more downtimes than there has been Highs, you know, there's definitely, but I'll remember, I can tell you about a time in 2012. It was like, uh, one of like the worst months of my life. Let's see, our car caught on fire, like literally exploded, because I guess that happens. We, we had a flood, we had a fire, our generator got stolen, I got dengue fever. I mean, it was just like this terrible month. And I remember I, I walked into the factory and I sat on Jolina's— I mean, I'm a grown woman, and I sat on another woman's lap and I started to cry. And Jolina literally took her thumbs and removed the tears from my eyes. And she said, OK, anale, back to work. So she let me cry for about 3 seconds.

Wow.

And then it was like, let's go back to work. And that is literally the Haitian spirit. It is that tenacity. And I always say, like, Haiti taught me how to become the woman I wanted to be. You know, how to be able to carry on with such adversity. And I mean, and now I'm talking to you from like the comfort of my home in Florida, where the rest of my team is struggling in Port-au-Prince, you know, amongst 90% of the capital being overrun by gangs, you know? So it's like, I, I am, you know, the lucky one here. I mean, they're the ones that are really to this day, you know, struggling, particularly the last 4 years, you know, with the, with the civil unrest. And, but yet they go to work every day. They make these beautiful products. They are, you know, the radio is always blasting.

Mm-hmm.

Everyone's telling jokes, you know? I mean, it's, it is like they call the factory a beacon of hope because it is really, it's really what it feels like. But it really is, it's the team that taught me to be this way.

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Yeah, that's, that's, I mean, just amazing. You know, I haven't honestly had a guest on for a while who's had your kind of story. And so it makes me a little emotional to think about the things that we feel, that we feel that we're facing or that we are facing from the comfort, as you said, of our homes in the United States, but how other people in other parts of the world have to survive and thrive and try to thrive, right? And the things that we can do to make a difference.

Yeah.

So, can you talk a little bit about, you know, what it looks like today? How do you find the partnerships? How do you get the products to market? You know, are the gangs giving space to your factory? Like, and is there a sense of pride in the community that this is actually something that's providing incomes and livelihoods and a way up for people?

Yeah. Oh gosh. Okay. Loaded.

Lots of loaded questions. Yes, loaded.

Sorry. I, yeah, I like to stack.

I love that.

So, okay. So I can tell you, um, something that we haven't talked about yet is that in addition to making the leather bags is we make school shoes for Haitian children. So it's one of the most greatest pride, like pride of my life, you know, because in Haiti, children wear uniforms and a lot of the times didn't have proper school shoes. So we make these beautiful, cute little Mary Janes for little girls and these little like church shoes for little boys. And we've, we've distributed about 20,000 pairs in the last couple of years. And so we, our factory kind of backs up to this, to like a school where all the, a lot of the gang members' children go to. And so we've provided shoes for them. And so we've, I don't know what you want to call it, but we have You know, not gained the respect of the gangs, but gained enough. I guess they tolerate us enough that they do allow us to operate. And I say that they allow us to operate because they do, you know, they run, they run the country. So we have been very lucky that, you know, like, you know, that we're still there. I mean, we are right in the center of Port-au-Prince. We're 2 miles from the airport, you know, so it's like literally a red zone. But yeah, the team, the team goes in every day. We do our best to keep our heads down and do our work. And be as good as we can to the neighboring community as we can. Another question you asked was, do they give us problems? It is about 3 times more expensive to operate because you pay the gangs for everything, to get raw materials in, to get raw materials out, to use the ports. We pay them for everything. So it's way more expensive. So our profit margins have taken a huge, huge dip over the last couple of years. And we've had to try to balance that idea of, okay, can we raise our prices? Will our customers still be interested and try to like you know, balance that because at the end of the day, if we don't have customers, we don't have anything. And, you know, you had mentioned something before about like, you know, like how powerful like each of us are and like, even like from here, it's, I mean, your purchasing power can literally change the life of an entire family. You choose to buy a bag or whatever it is that you buy that is made by hand by a person making a dignified living wage and you You inject into their life this sense of, you know, livelihood and ability to carry on. And I mean, it is so powerful. It's the most powerful thing I've ever known. You know, I have to be honest with you, like, I know I'm in fashion now, but I was never really that interested in fashion until I realized, like, we all make choices every day. What are we going to wear? How are we going to accessorize? What are we going to put on our bodies? And it does make a statement about who you are and what you believe. And if you can do things and wear things that actually align with that, it really does make you feel better every day. Like, I was so grateful you asked about my necklace. I said, oh yeah, this fair trade brand, you know, like, uh, that's in, in, uh, Uganda made this necklace. And it's like, it makes me feel so good because I know that this was made with 2 hands and the person who made it made a living wage. And we're all going to buy clothes and fashion accessories. I mean, it's just the way that it is. And so if you can do that and make a difference in someone else's life, I mean, how What a gift for us to be able to do that. So marketing, you know, partnerships with companies like, you know, being Fairtrade verified. We got our Fairtrade verification 2 years ago, and that really opened a lot of doors, Nordstrom being the biggest one for sure. So I think Nordstrom was just interested in having a small selection of brands being Fairtrade verified, and we were just lucky enough to be one of them. And, you know, it's made a significant difference in our sales. So we're really grateful for that partnership. But, but then we just advertise like other traditional brands, you know, Meta, Facebook, all the things.

All the things. And you did say, you, you said the words literally two hands, but for anybody who didn't pick that up, that is literally the name of your company as well. It's the French version, right?

Deux mains.

That's right.

Deux mains.

Two hands. That's right. Yeah.

Cute.

Yeah.

So I thought that was, uh, That was a nice little pickup. So, you, before you were doing disaster response, you were a professional dancer? Yeah.

Yeah, I was an aerialist and a ballet dancer. Yeah.

Oh my gosh. What did that world and then the world of disaster relief teach you, if anything? You know, what skills did they give you to go into now being a CEO of a fashion company? Do you know what?

When I worked for Cirque, I worked with the most talented people on the planet. I mean, it was so funny. Like, I had the, the juggler would be married to the contortionist and they had, you know, knife-swallowing kids. And I mean, you know, just like these amazing families and we would travel together and we lived together. And the circus world is a very different world. But I always, when I think about this, whenever I was dancing or climbing Ariel Chiffon, you're always smiling and you can't think about— I have, I always had a problem with thinking about poverty too much and thinking about, you know, like human suffering too much. And so for me, it was like this amazing release. And then also, when you're on the stage, you, you have to like interact with your counterparts and you have to flow. In this world, it's actually safety, right? Because I mean, certainly we're depending on each other. You know, if an aerialist is up, you have a partner, you know, it's really, you have to be a team. And I think that has really affected my leadership style because we are very team-focused at our company. Like I said before, I was a foreigner coming in, so not only was I a woman, I was foreigner, like I'm like the bottom of the totem pole, you know, like, and so without having other strong women to collaborate with, this would never have worked, never in a million years. I didn't understand the dynamics. You know, people always say, you know, Haiti is okay, there's just all chaos, there's no systems in place. But there are systems, we just didn't understand them. But we have health insurance, and we have maternity leave and paternity leave, and we have car insurance, and we pay our taxes. I mean, we do all of these things. But a lot of foreigners will go to the developing place and say, oh, they just don't have these systems. And so they just bypass them, but that's not necessarily the case. You know, it's just that we're not really willing to understand local customs. And when you do that, you disrespect a nation and we're not about disrespecting a nation. And we're not, you know, even though this, this particular nation has, you know, it's, it's troubles right now. Haiti was the first free Black republic. It has an amazing history, ended slavery over 50 years before we did in the United States. I mean, Haitian people are to be revered, in my personal opinion. And they just got the short end of the stick, you know, because I think people were angry that they ended slavery and, and for, you know, and so it's, I don't know, that's, that's a theory, but I have personally just seen, you know, how incredible Haitian people are. And I just want to see, you know, them have the opportunities that they deserve.

Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, we could have many more, many more conversations.

Sorry, I think I got on my soapbox.

I am, I'm of the same viewpoint as you. So, you know, I do think it is such a travesty when we see things happening, when we see, you know, I can't even say redlining, but when we see people not being given opportunities, because there's an anger, there's lashing out, there's You know, a mentality that's racist where we're not respecting people. And I love the fact that you brought up customs and traditions and regulations and things that sometimes, let's be honest, there is a white savior complex, right, of people going over to other countries and not necessarily feeling an affinity for the, the people, but just going over there to say, look at me, I did this.

Yeah.

And, you know, what we're talking about with, with your company is completely different case.

You know, it's been my biggest fear has always been like, oh, I don't want, I don't wanna be a white savior. I don't, I don't, I mean, it has, you know, obviously been a huge fear and it took, you know, I mean, for years people saying, you know, I need to share this story. So, and so I wrote this, I wrote my memoir, but I interviewed about 50 people. And so I'm sharing the stories of my colleagues and then it kind of came out of like, Okay, we have to share this. And the only reason you're talking to me and not Jolina is because she doesn't speak English, you know, like, because she would be equally, you know, the person to talk to about this company. It's just language barriers. So, yeah, so I just happen to be the person that communicates in English, but at the end of the day, I am, you know, essentially the salesperson and they are the talent, you know, like, I mean, they're the real story. I'm just— it's a— Be the spokesperson for it.

Yeah. No, I, I love the different things that you've put into the company and talking about jobs, not aid. And you talked a little bit about some of the programs you have with the training. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Because I'm sure as everything else, you had to figure out what's the best model for us to use and that will help people maintain their dignity.

Yeah. Okay. So, this one, it's kind of like not complex, but so basically, I have my master's in nonprofit management, and when I went to Haiti, I was working for nonprofits, you know, for disaster response, and I was so angry with the way that they were doing it, right? I knew something was wrong, but I only knew what— the only thing I knew to do was to create another nonprofit because that's what my whole life experience was in. So, I created a nonprofit, Rebuild Globally, and we focused on education and job training, you know, because everybody said they wanted jobs. I'm like, great, okay, but what can you do? Well, you know, okay, all right, so let's figure this out. So we focused on education and job training, and then I initially thought, oh, we're going to graduate all these sandal makers, all these seamstresses, all these people, and they're going to go get jobs. Well, Haiti has a 79— at the time in 2010, had a 79% unemployment and underemployment rate, meaning that most people in the marketplaces, like in the marchés, people you would see, you will see like bustling marchés, but what you don't know is that they're bartering and trading. There's not a lot of income generation happening because nobody has any money. So that's why I believe why, you know, you wouldn't see like this starvation crisis, like sometimes you see in Africa and other places. It's because people have something and they'll barter and trade. But again, no income generation. And so no jobs. And so that's where I was like, oh my gosh, in 2011, I was like, wait, we're gonna have to build a factory too? We actually have to create the jobs too? And so that's what we did. So the way that our model works is we have Rebuild Globally focusing on pathways to employment, education, job training, all the things. Then they have a guaranteed 100% job at Demain upon graduation. And so it's not just craftspeople. Our entire management team are graduates of our program, everything from HR to operations to materials and resource coordinator. Everybody's graduates of the program. So there's management positions as well as craftspeople, artisans, all the things.

Nice. That is, that's such a great model and it can be hard. I have a nonprofit that's focused in Ghana and we've focused on children's education first and foremost and helped kids go to school through a partner organization there. But then we found, oh, the kids are going to school, but a lot of them don't have a place to live. So we built a home for 26 kids to live, you know, but then it's like, you, all the little expenses, all the things that add up, and then we've got a grant for an organic farm of 10 acres. And so they still have that farm running, but then we were able to buy 10 acres closer to the orphan home. But then we still have to fundraise for more equipment, right? Because so that we can have 2 operational organic farms that are providing jobs and meals and money to run things. But it feels like there's so much that gets in the way, right? Whether it's the cost of everything's going up. Or there's no access to certain things or something breaks down. So, it can be really disheartening when you're operating. And so, you know, I have that experience. I haven't started an entire business ecosystem anywhere.

Yes, you have.

Yes, you have.

You are like my soul sister.

Well, you know, our partner organization, they run everything kind of like you have partners there. And, but, but it can, it can take a lot. You know, it's a lot of work and it also can be really disheartening. And so, you know, I appreciate that you've continued to look for ways with input, of course, from the community of how can you continuously improve and change the community from the inside, not just infusing, right, our own viewpoints and our own, yeah, our own acumen. Yeah.

I mean, it wasn't easy to, I had to learn, you know, I made so many mistakes in the beginning. Oh my gosh. You know, like, But I just think if you're willing to listen and learn, then, then at the end of the day, you know, we'll all make mistakes together, but we'll grow together. And that's kind of what we've done through our, like, you know, our little family ecosystem that we've, we've built.

And you did mention your book, and if anybody's watching this, you can see it behind Julie's shoulder from Lost Legacy. Can you talk a little bit about that experience of writing the book and You know, pouring those words out.

You know, that was actually one of the hardest and most redemptive experiences I've ever had because I actually, right in the early days of the deployment, I was journaling and like taking notes of all the things that were happening. And I, I, what I thought I was gonna write was a textbook for social entrepreneurs on what not to do, you know, like on-the-ground experience. These are the mistakes I made. This is the thing that happened. And I like, so I thought I was gonna be writing like this textbook. And then as I got, as years went on and I got older and, you know, things started happening, you know, I, not only was I the social entrepreneur in Haiti, but I was this woman that, you know, had other issues and problems in my life and, you know, things that were devastating to me. And so I just, I just started writing about all of it. And when I sent it to the publisher, they said, well, this isn't a textbook. This is a memoir. And I said, okay. And I was like, well, I don't want, I don't want it to be just about me because that that would be untruthful if we're talking about a memoir that's about business development. It has to include my colleagues. So I interviewed, like I said, dozens of my colleagues and wanted to ensure that their stories were heard, especially because a lot of them are only Creole speaking. So their words in English, I think, are powerful for people to read because their stories are unbelievable. I mean, truly, truly, the tenacity of the Haitian spirit is second to So to hear their stories is very inspirational. So I was honored that they allowed me to share them in, in, um, From Loss to Legacy.

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Every house has a beginning. Ours starts with a rebellion. This is not just fashion. This is freedom. Freedom worn out loud. A place where individuality isn't a look, it's a law.

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Wow.

And how has This journey that you've gone on writing the book, continuing to run the company, changed your life?

Well, if I can be totally frank, it saved my life. So, you know, for me, I struggled with infertility. And so, for me, like all of my teammates, like I am in no way a mother figure. They all have mothers and, and great families and beautiful families, but I got to walk alongside my team members And experience, I think, things in a different way because we're so close. Like, for example, Roni was 13 years old when I met him.

He—

I loved— I wish I had it on, but he made me this bracelet and he spelled my name July because he was this little entrepreneur kid and everybody was like, go get that white lady. She'll buy from you. She likes to support Haitian businesses. And I said to the kid, I said, you know what, Roni? I said, you should join our education program. And it took some convincing because his mom told him not to trust foreigners. And so, but about a few months later, he's like, I am going to join the education program. And now, 16 years later, Roni is our most senior position, operation manager in the factory. I mean, so, so we got to experience life together. And again, Roni has got a beautiful family and a great mom and sisters and all these things. So in no way am I, you know, motherly to him, but like, I got to like be a part of his life in a way that, you know, without having kids saved me and was a gift to me. So that's how I would say, like, it's not just about the business, it's about the people in the business and them being so open to allow me to be a part of their life. It's given me a full life.

Yeah. Oh, I resonate with that deeply. Yeah. I always say, you know, I only— well, I did have— I do have a daughter, but I only got one. So I will say that those kids are my kids as well. So I completely, yeah, this is not a direction I thought we were gonna go with at all. So I always, but I, this is what I really appreciate about this format is we can get into talking about the businesses, but also talking about how business, how relationships have changed our lives. So thank you for being so open.

Oh, my pleasure. Well, you know, when the business is your life, it kind of just all melts into one. I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore, so I'm sorry if I went off.

I mean, this is, this is the reality of, you know, living this life and helping people, but also realizing it's not just helping others, it's helping ourselves. Totally.

That, that's really what I would love to convey most is, you know, like, you know, people say to me, oh my gosh, what you've done is so amazing. It's like, no, no, you don't understand. Like, my life is better because I'm allowed to do this work because the people of Haiti accepted me to do it. You know, they didn't have to.

Now, turning back to some of the partnerships that you've been able to create, for somebody who's listening, who's thinking about how do I find the right partnerships, right? What are some of the things that you have to think through to make sure that they're upholding your ethics and values as much as you would when they're representing your brand online or in their stores, right? And vice versa. That it does feel like something that's a win-win?

Oh, that's an interesting question because partnership is hard. It is really hard. And it is, and you know, the fashion industry is brutal, but like for us with Nordstrom, they picked us up because we are Fairtrade verified. However, we're not positioned online as Fairtrade. I mean, it's, it's like on the very bottom, it's like, it's not about that at all. And so for us, we, at first we didn't know how we felt about that. But then I was like, oh my gosh, all these women are buying these handbags because they like it. So it was almost like proof of concept. And so it was this interesting lesson for me to learn that, okay, even though that's why it's most important to me is that it's made in Haiti and it's fair trade, like that's what's most important to me. If a woman's just like, oh, that is a gorgeous bag and buys it, I mean, I think that's a testament to the craftsmanship. And so I don't care that they, you know, I mean, they get the little card and hopefully they'll read it and be even more proud, but like at the end of the day. The sale is what matters. And I hate to be so like blunt about that, but when you run a company with 40 employees, it's like at the end of the day, like the sales do matter. And so, you know, those partnerships are strategic. And I will say like, like I think I've said it before too, but like being Fair Trade verified really, really changed the game for us. So for me, the Fair Trade Federation was amazing.

I'd love to hear a little bit about advice that you'd have for an entrepreneur who wants to build a purpose-driven business. But, you know, we also need to make sure that, uh, building something purpose-driven doesn't let the mission become an excuse for not being good businesses. So, where would you suggest that somebody start?

Ooh, that is so good. So, it is a fine line to walk for sure. And I would have to say part, like, so not partnership as like, start as like brand to brand, but like, as far as like for me with Jolina and Sarah, and I've got other women that are on, like, you know, we are, we're women-owned. So, like having other women around me. To counterbalance like our neuroses, like really helps. Like when one of us was really down, one of us would come up and really pull each other down. Because, you know, I remember that when I left Haiti, I said, I'm coming back every 6 weeks because I never want to forget what it's like. Because for example, I mean, this will be a stupid example, but you know, they'll be like, Julie, we need new benches in the cafeteria.

And I'm like, we don't have money for new benches in the cafeteria.

And then I'll go down to Haiti and I'll see people leaning against the counter because The bench is going to fall apart. And I think, oh my gosh, I've lost perspective, you know? And so it's like, because, you know, when you're away, you're only thinking about the finances. So I made it a ritual that I was never gone for more than 6 weeks until the civil war happened. Like, then we're not allowed— we're not allowed in as often now. But to ensure, you know, that I would never forget what the experience is like for the people on the ground. And that, that has really helped balance out You know, this idea of like, okay, well, if I'm one of the decision makers of the company, if I'm one of the owners, I need to understand what it's like for everybody else who's living in Haiti. And that's the majority. I mean, I'm— there's 2 foreigners that work for the company and the rest is Haitian. So like, we have to never forget what the experience of other people is. And it is so easy to forget, you know, I'm ashamed to say, but it is easy to forget.

Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, it's very true. What do you see as a mistake that purpose-driven founders can make that can cost them credibility or growth?

So, this one, Kenneth Cole taught me in 2014. He wanted to make this like really beautiful sandal, and I was like, well, we, we make 'em with tires, you know? And he's like, well, my customer would want this. I'm like, but this is what, you know, this is what we— and, and, and I remember like battling with him, and he's a really funny guy, and he like makes a ton of jokes, and he would make all these jokes about like, because you wanna retire. And I was like, no, Like, I, I like, no, I want, like, I want to, like, stay true to the product. But he was like, they— people have to want to buy it. And I didn't— like, that wasn't important to me in 2014. I wanted to make what we could make because I wanted to create more jobs. And I didn't understand at the time how important the customer was. And Kenneth was trying to teach me that, and I wasn't ready to listen. And so, I think at the end of the day, you know, it's like really, you know, really being able to listen. I mean, I always say like listening is like probably like one of my superpowers. I really am a good listener, but not, not good enough. I don't think you're ever good enough at listening to the advice of people who have walked your path because Kenneth Cole sold shoes out of a car for 10 years before he, you know what I mean? Like he knew and I didn't want to listen. So it's just, it's that interesting thing of like, you know, you always think you know what's right. There has to be, I think, a balance for entrepreneurs of like standing your ground and saying, this is my experience. I am an expert in this and this is what I know to be true. But then also being, you know, able to see that there's experiences that other people have had that might really help you to, you know, jump a few steps along because you're gonna, you're gonna hit a roadblock for sure.

Yeah. Luckily that's something that you're able to surpass and had that moment, right? Of like, oh, we don't, we can't make these anymore, but we can make these other things that are really beautiful and now sell them at Nordstrom and people want them. Yeah. What is next? Like, where do you see, you know, consumer expectations heading, but also your company?

Okay. Well, big news. So this is, nobody even knows this yet, but we are opening a storefront for our very first storefront. Uh, we've been moving in for the past 3 weeks and I think we'll be open in the next couple of weeks. It takes a lot more work than I, um, that I, that I imagined. But, um, so we are still continuing, um, to grow and to get more relationships and, you know, getting more customers and getting more feedback, learning how we can be better, how we can make bags that women want to carry. I just think we want to just keep growing. You know, we just want to keep growing and learning. We want to make, you know, more and more school shoes for every child in Haiti that needs a pair. We want people to buy things locally, so we'll just continue to you know, try to get, you know, make the best, most reliable, most affordable shoes for Haitian people.

Yeah.

Amazing. And I'm sorry, where did you say the storefront's going to be?

It's in Lake Worth Beach, Florida.

Okay, fantastic. And then people can also buy online?

Yes, you can buy online. Lots of Christmas shopping ready to go. Yep. You can buy at Nordstrom. Yeah.

And you've talked a lot about this that I think we've gotten a lot about You know, what's going on in Haiti right now, but what is one thing that you think people really need to understand about working in ethical manufacturing, working with countries that are in times of flux like Haiti?

Hmm. You know, that is really like such a difficult question because there's so many companies that I know of in Haiti that, you know, have shut down due to gang violence. And I think it is no fault of their own, but I think the thing that has saved us is that we ensured our middle management and high and high management teams were Haitian, whereas like a lot of other companies had foreigners that ran the business. So because we did it in collaboration, because we left, our business didn't shut down. So I think that's like our distinguishing factor. You know that, like I said, there's two foreigners: myself and my colleague Sarah. And Sarah really, like you know, runs and maintains like. day-to-day operations with the Haitian team as I, when I focus on sales, but the Haitian leadership team runs that factory every single day. And so that's why I think we're still open.

Yeah.

Yeah. So the importance of the right team in the right place, making sure they have the skills. Yeah, exactly. Agency.

Yes. Oh, I love that word. Yes, totally.

Wow. Uh, this is such a great conversation and I could just sit and continue asking questions, but I, I wanna just tease this out for the audience so that they check out Jumel themselves, check out your memoir. So Julie, you know, this has been a very real and raw conversation. It's also been a very powerful conversation about how your purpose can change.

Mm-hmm.

But that it actually can enhance your life even more when it does. So thank you for being so open and honest and vulnerable with us today, and also sharing a lot we need to think about as we think about what our legacies are, right? Because this is, I mean, your book says it all, From Lost to Legacy. It's not just the legacy of the people in Haiti, it's also your legacy.

Yeah.

Well, it's, you know, you're really easy to talk to, so I really appreciate you caring about our story and about what makes us who we are. It, it really means a lot to me, and I'm really grateful for the work that you're doing in Ghana. It's really beautiful.

Thank you. And, uh, do you have a favorite quote, mantra, verse, poem, a family motto, just words that continue to inspire you?

Well, I always think about like dignity through work is the, is a, the greatest human right. And I always think that like those words are like one of the most powerful things that I can ever remember to say every single day, that dignity through work is one of the greatest human rights.

And I think those are great words for everybody to, to think about a little bit, right? Because whether you are working with a social enterprise, nonprofit, a company that's pouring good directly into the world, or you're trying to do something a little different, think about how you can create dignity for your own work and for the work of those around you. So with that, Thank you to everybody who's watched this episode or listened to it. I'll be back again with another amazing guest soon. I will have all the information in the show notes for Julie so that you can check out and hopefully support her organization, the wonderful artisans who are working in Haiti to fend for their livelihoods in many ways, right? And of course, I'm looking forward to reading your book myself.

So.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you so much.

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You can trust Amica Auto Insurance to be there in the moments that matter, from first cars to family cars. And it's why customers stay with us 3 times longer. Visit amica.com.

For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tremfya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tremfya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every 4 weeks, followed by injections under the skin every 2 weeks.

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Every house has a beginning. Ours starts with a rebellion. This is not just fashion. This is It's freedom worn out loud. A place where individuality isn't a look, it's a law. Perfect is boring. The algorithm doesn't know you, you do. A look is never just a look, it's a declaration. It's time to step out and into somewhere new. Step into the House of Burl and find a Burlington near you.

Be yourself.