Scaling Smart: Working to Live Instead of Living to Work with Chris Shurian

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Step into the world of success with Your Brand Amplified, the ultimate podcast designed to unravel the intricacies of thriving businesses. I'm your host, Anika Jackson, and I'm on a mission to uncover the stories, strategies, and secrets that have propelled entrepreneurs and business leaders to success. Sometimes the pre-conversations I wish I had pushed record on because they are every bit as good and juicy as I know our conversation is going to be today. I am thrilled to have Chris Shurian on the show. Chris, you've lived 9 lives. In business, right? Remodeling, home building, hospitality, restaurants, real estate, retail. Across many years of building, breaking, rebuilding companies, surviving the 2008 crash, beating cancer, finishing two Ironmans, coaching entrepreneurs through pressure and isolation that comes with running a business through bootstraps and battle scars and Founders Exchange. You are an intra. Entrepreneurholic? Is that what you call it?

Entrepreneurholic. Entrepreneurholic. Yeah, that's my word.

Yeah. So thank you for being here. I'm thrilled to join you in conversation today.

Well, Anika, this is awesome. And like you said, we did have a pretty good pre-conversation. You know, my, I started a podcast not too long ago, so my interview skills just all of a sudden pounced and I think I was cracking you. They sure did. I was getting information out of you, but yeah, it was really fun. And I, so I'm looking forward to carrying on with our conversation.

Yeah. And I have watched, which we will of course link in the show notes, some of your YouTubes and you are a great interviewer and I really enjoyed listening to the conversations that you had. So it's fun to have you on the other side for my show. Can you talk a little bit about that journey of being a serial entrepreneur or an entrepreneurholic as you call it, which might be a little different? How did you coin that? Where did it come from and what makes that maybe a little bit different than just Yeah.

I started off on my own almost 40 years ago. I was working for another company and like every great entrepreneur, I had an entrepreneurial seizure. I read that in a book once. One of the very first business books I ever read was, you know what? I just forgot what it was. That's kind of dumb. But Michael Gerber, The E-Myth.

Mm-hmm.

And he talks about how you're working for a company and you have an entrepreneurial seizure and And you think, man, I can do this and I could probably do it better. And so that set me on a path. And maybe it's just my personality, maybe it's just my stubbornness, I don't know. But I started early and never looked back. And it's funny because I've done so many different things. And usually what happens is I get started down one road and then all of a sudden I see an opportunity that is somewhat complementary to what I'm doing. And I think, well, Well, that makes sense. Let's just go down that road. And next thing you know, you're running 4 or 5 different companies and there you are. And sometimes I think that works for some people. I think sometimes it can be a little bit unhealthy for some entrepreneurs to be distracted and spread themselves a little too thin. And I've experienced that. So when I coined the term entrepreneuraholic, I'm saying sometimes that's not the answer. Sometimes that's just not the right answer. And so when I coach entrepreneurs now, And I see them, they've got something pretty good going on. And all of a sudden they're like, oh, there's a shiny object over here. Let's go do that. And let's go do that. I counsel them against that sometimes because I've seen it where it's, it's worked their detriment and it's caused problems with their core business because they're just spread too thin. So yeah, that's why I like to play around with that word entrepreneuraholic, because I don't think being a serial entrepreneur is always, if it's not done right, it can be dangerous.

Yeah. Yeah. It is one of the issues I think multiple times, you know, multiple-time entrepreneurs and multiple entrepreneurs have this issue of there are so many ideas that we have and we wanna do them all at the same time instead of focusing and honing in on what's best for us to do in that moment that will take advantage of our talent and our time, you know, our passion for that topic or that subject. And then we also have this shiny object syndrome of, oh, this thing is going to work really well in my business. So I should try that because somebody else did it and it's going to work for them, whether or not we've actually stopped to think, is this going to make sense for me? And is this going to make sense for the kind of business I'm trying to put out to the world?

Yeah. And, and, and Anika, before we started, we were talking about a good friend of mine who was a tech entrepreneur and, and he truly is a serial entrepreneur, but, but he would start one business, get it going, get it going well, figure out what his exit looked like and he would exit and he would sell. And then he'd start the next one and then he'd build it and build it and build it and build it and sell and start the next one. You know, whereas me as an entrepreneur, there's time where I would have had all 4 of those going at once. And maybe all of them are getting kind of a portion of my attention and not my full undivided attention. So yeah, it's a, it's a thing. It's a thing.

So how have you decided to narrow your focus? At this moment in time?

You know, my focus now is, is much more of a simple approach. Like, you know, I've done so much and I've worked so hard and I've had, I've had a lot of success and then I've had some failures. And so now at this point in my life, I mean, I just turned 60.

Congratulations.

Thank you. That was a thing. And I, we had a good party. It was a good time, but I woke up the next morning and said, okay, I'm starting over at 39. And here we go. Here we go. And, and I think my approach now is I don't have to have as much as I thought I needed back in the day. So for me to grow and grow and have all these things and have all the money and the toys and the— and the— oh, what's— you know, I don't know what the word is, but, you know, the notoriety. You know, I used to be pretty well known around here because I had so much going on. And from the outside, man, it looked like everything was just going great, but On the inside, there was just so much stress and too much going on that it didn't help me enjoy life, right? So now my approach is, look, everything I do now, I come at it from a different perspective. I work to live. I don't live to work. So that means I enjoy life. I enjoy being with my wife. I enjoy being with my kids. I enjoy going on vacation. I enjoy working half days. I enjoy working, not working on a Friday or Saturday, right? I have a shop where I work on hot rods and I have my Harley. And right now, my son and I are fixing a tractor. So, in my shop right now, there's a tractor that's pulled apart and just laying all over my shop. And, I think the new part came today, so my son and I are going to go out there and finish this tractor. So, that to me is more important than working 10, 12, 14 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week. And, that's my lifestyle that I'm focused on. Now, I've never been accused of being a workaholic, quite frankly. I've always been really good at balancing my time. But now I think it's just a mindset. It's like, look, I've got an idea. I've got a project I'm working on and I'm just going to work on that one project. You know, I just, you know, it's just, it's different. Like I had an exit last year. We owned some restaurants and it was fun and I had an exit. You know, my exit wasn't significant, you know, but I did walk away with money in my pocket, right? Not as much as I put into it, but I walked away with money. And that's when I decided to lean into the coaching and doing the things to help other entrepreneurs. I've always had great mentors in my life and I've always had great coaches in my life. So I felt like I wanted to give back and I wanted to give back to the community. So now that I'm coaching, I call myself the Entrepreneur Whisperer. I think that's funny because sometimes I sit down with one of my clients and sometimes it's an hour and a half of therapy.

Yeah.

Sometimes it's an hour and a half of let's talk about systems and processes. Sometimes it's an hour and a half of let's talk about leadership and how we can better develop our teams. And so, uh, you know, I, I enjoy that. And, and Anika, you're educated and you're in the education world. And, uh, you know, my, my high school degree is the, is the highest degree I ever got. But I'll tell you what, I have a PhD in, in the school of hard knocks. I have Been there, done that. Rarely does an entrepreneur share something they're going through that I haven't experienced myself, right? Which helps me help them.

Absolutely.

So that was a long drawn out answer to your question, right? But, but it's just focus. It's just different priorities now in my life. And, uh, and I just feel like now it's time for me to just focus on, on the one thing and, and make it great.

Well, let's talk about that first business, a fence building side hustle, Chris, is that correct?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So how did that then turn into a full career and going on this entrepreneurial path? Like, did you always know you were going to be an entrepreneur?

I didn't, you know, I was a young married fella. I had just gotten home from Brazil where I was a missionary for my church. And I was working in construction. It was a job I had. It was a job I had before I went to Brazil. When I came back, they held my job for me. And I enjoyed it. And then one afternoon in church, my neighbor was talking to me and he said, hey, we live in a big HOA of condominiums and the HOA is requiring that we all replace our fences. So can you help me this weekend? Can you come over Saturday and help me replace my, you know, rebuild my fence? It was just a small fence. And I said, sure. Well, I came over on a Saturday and we tore down his fence and built a new fence and got it all done. And pretty soon, Neighbors started coming by and saying, hey, I need to do my fence too. Can you help me do my fence? And, you know, one thing led to another. Next thing you know it, I was the guy in this neighborhood. Just every day I'd tear down a fence and build it back up, and then I'd go to the next one and do that. And, and next thing you know it, here I am just working for myself as a fence guy. And then I had another person come up to me and say, well, you built my fence. Can you do some work inside my house? And I said, sure, let's do it. And one thing led to another and next thing you know what, I'm in business. I went and bought an old work truck from my uncle and I think I traded actually. I did some work for him and he gave me an old work truck and then it just all went from there. And then I decided, and then I just decided, okay, if I'm going to make a go at this, let's do it. Let's bring a level of professionalism and customer service to the building trades that just doesn't exist. And then one thing led to another and man, we just started having great success and it just, it went crazy. It went crazy. But it did start off as a side hustle, just helping my neighbor build a fence. And then next thing you know it, I'm building multimillion-dollar homes for customers. I'm doing multimillion-dollar remodels for customers. I was receiving awards. We had a high-end custom cabinet shop because we did tons of cabinetry. So there you go. If we're going to do tons of cabinetry, why don't we just build our own fancy shop and buy $1 million worth of equipment, right? And yeah, and that took me through up to 2008. And then 2008, 2009 is when, you know, I think we all know what happened then. And that caught me, that got me pretty good. I wasn't quite prepared for it. And that was my first big season of failure where I really had the rug ripped out from underneath me. So that was an experience.

Yeah. Well, and that's actually the next moment I wanted to go to. You were all in on your businesses, the economy collapses, you had 2 years of weekly meetings with your banker. You sold your boat, your Corvette, right? You had to do a lot of things differently and you didn't have all of the work coming one after another. But I think many of us start our entrepreneurship journey that way is we say yes, and then more opportunities keep presenting themselves, and then all of a sudden we have a company, but then we don't always, we don't have the foresight of knowing the economy's going to collapse or other things are going to happen.

Yeah.

So what was your mindset in that phase coming out of this massive, you know, all these years of success building all these companies and then having to go, ooh, what do I need to do now?

Well, that's a great question. And let me preface this by saying, trick or treat. No one's home. I see you inside eating a Reese's.

Why do people ignore trick-or-treaters? Do they not have treats, or do they not want to share their Reese's? Perhaps it's true, everything happens for a Reese's. Whoever said fork in the road must have been hungry for the Sorento and Sorento Turbo Hybrid, their 3-row seating, and 10-year, 100,000-mile limited powertrain warranty. With a capable Sorento and Sorento Turbo Hybrid, every way forward is The right way. Visit your local Kia dealer today. Kia, movement that inspires.

Call 800-333-4KIA for details.

Drive safely.

See retailer for warranty details.

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I'll admit it, I'm one of those people who gets excited for football season way before the first kickoff. That's why a trip to Total Wine& More has become part of my game day routine. I can get the cooler ready with my favorite beers and ready-to-drink cocktails. I'm usually picking up enough for everybody, so it's nice knowing I'm scoring the lowest prices. This season, make Total Wine& More part of your game day tradition. Spirits are not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly. Be 21.

Quick question, how much of your day is spent typing? Emails, Slack, notes, prompts to ChatGPT. WhisperFlow is a voice-to-text app. Instead of typing, you talk and it types for you in any app on your Mac, Windows, iPhone, or Android. It takes out the ums, fixes the typos, and the result sounds like you wrote it 4 times faster than typing. So the email that used to take 2 minutes now takes 30 seconds. WhisperFlow is free. Download it at whisperflow.ai. That's WISPRflow.ai.

I have always had this really crazy optimistic mindset, and I've always been very persistent. And I think it's, you know, early on when I first started working, I would listen to cassette tapes. I would listen to motivational speakers. I would, I would just, just fill my brain with, with good stuff. And so I became this very positive, very optimistic, very persistent. Human who didn't take no for an answer, and who just always knew that whatever I was going to do, whatever I put my mind to, I can accomplish it. So that so that's who I was. And then coming into 2008, we were having great success. I mean, we had four different companies. I had fifty employees. We were a multi-million dollar a year company, and I was very you know I was kind of a rock star in our business community. I was super. It tied into the business network. People knew who I was. I was getting awards. I was on magazines. All this stuff is super important. And then when I started hearing grumblings of this recession, my mindset was to keep going, like just keep going. I'm not going to quit. I'm not going to slow down because someone's saying that we might have a recession. So when that recession hit, I was very leveraged. We had just built a multimillion-dollar spec home. And if you know what a spec home is, that means I just built a very expensive home hoping to sell it and make money. I had just bought some land and started a subdivision of homes. So I was super leveraged. I had just started a million-dollar remodel on my own house. So I was like, I was super leveraged. And so when the economy hit and all of a sudden the banks are calling you up and saying, hey, Chris, you know that line of credit we gave you? Well, we need it back. You know, the banks are saying, hey, Chris, remember that loan that we told you we'd give you on that spec home? Well, we can't do that anymore, right? So things changed dramatically. And I will have to say, I had done a lot of things right leading up to that moment. So for example, I'm a big fan of enjoying life. So, you know, we had a boat, we had a houseboat on Lake Powell. I had a Corvette, a classic Corvette. We had toys, we had a cabin, we had things. But here's the deal, I paid cash for all that.

Wow.

And, and so when me and all my friends who had boats all of a sudden were like, man, we gotta sell our boats— well, my buddies were selling their boats Because they were trying to make payments and they owed more than the boat was worth. Well, I could take my boat and sell it for a discount and turn into cash and feed my family or pay my bills. So I was very lucky that that was my mindset going into that was, you know, pay cash for the toys. It's good to have them, but pay cash. And for me, it was like almost a savings account. I mean, it was sad to see that Corvette get loaded on a flatbed truck and get hauled off to, I think, Alabama. Some guy in Alabama bought my 1968 convertible Corvette. But, you know, it was money in my pocket and it allowed me to provide for my family. And so I was, I was very fortunate that way. Now, that does not mean I had enough money to take care of the millions of dollars that I had borrowed from the banks to do subdivisions and spec homes. And, and so there was a lot of work and, you know, once a week I was sitting in my banker's office across the desk. working out how we're going to get through this. You know, it's funny because that subdivision that I was building is right, it's like right down the street from where I live now. Like it's right down the street from my house. And I have friends that live in that subdivision. Like some of my best friends live in that subdivision. And it's funny because that banker who turned, you know, it was a great, just a great friend and a great asset for me. And we became great friends. But she has several family members that are in that subdivision as well, because when it came down to, I need to dump these lots and we're going to dump them for cheap, you know, maybe she called some of her family members and said, hey, here's a deal on some lots over here. So yeah, it was, it was, but sitting across the desk from that banker and I still run into that banker, you know, she's long retired and, uh, but she lives in town. I'm good friends with her family. I see her around town a lot and we're friends, you know, we're friends. And I remember, well, this is going to lead me into another story, Anika.

That's okay. Let's keep on going.

Well, here's the thing we used to do. Remember when Extreme Makeover was a big show back in the '80s? Like it was awesome, right? Well, in about 1980, no, no, it was, I guess that was the 2000s. 2000s.

Yeah.

So in 2000, probably 2005, I had a young couple move into a house close to my house. And he was an electrician and he started working on his house. They were remodeling. He had a little family, had like 4 kids. So he moved into the basement of his house while he remodeled the upstairs. Well, he lost his job and then couldn't afford to finish this project and then got another job, but it required him to travel. So he couldn't, didn't have time. So I got all excited and I said, hey, we're going to help you remodel your house. And I literally, this is true, I sent him and his family to Disneyland. I rounded up all my contractors, my subcontractors, my suppliers. And in one week, we completely remodeled his entire house, landscaped it, put up a fence. In one week, we did all that. Then we put a Christmas tree, brand new furniture, presents, the whole thing. And we did an extreme makeover and he didn't pay a dime. Okay.

Wow.

So he came home from Disneyland. He didn't know what we were doing. And, uh, we did the move that bus thing and it was, it was cool. It was cool. So we did that 4 years in a row in this community. Every year for Christmas, all my subcontractors say, Chris, let's do another one. Let's do another one. And so I did that 4 years in a row. And the last one I did was in Christmas of 2027 or 2007.

Okay.

Okay.

I was like, oh wait, that hasn't happened yet.

2007.

Yeah.

That was the last one I did. And I remember sitting down with my banker and saying, oh, banker, man, I sure wish I had some of that money back that I had spent on all those Christmas houses.

Right.

I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of my own money. And she said, Chris, he said, part of the reason why we're sitting here with you right now is because we watched you do what you did. And that's karma. You did so much good for our community and did so much good for the people that, you know what, we recognize that. And as a small regional bank, hey, that means something to us.

Right.

So that was cool.

Yeah. And you didn't do that for the accolades, right? You did that for people in the community, and that is why the bank said, let's work with you. Let's figure this out.

Yep.

And instead of treating you like anybody else.

Yeah.

So yeah, that karma thing I think is real. And I, we love doing that. In fact, I came across one of the news articles that was written about the last home we did in 2007, and that was pretty fun to read that. And I still have friends and subcontractors and people who remember those projects we did and we still talk about it and it's just cool. It was a cool thing we did.

Yeah.

Well, and this is a little bit of a departure because doing something like that, it really comes from the heart and it's doing something for the community, but it's not necessarily setting boundaries. But you do have some thoughts around boundaries and you've said boundaries aren't a personal luxury for entrepreneurs. They're a core business strategy. So talk about what that means to you and how you help the entrepreneurs that you work with figure out where those lines should be drawn.

Yeah. You know, probably the biggest, you know, every entrepreneur that I work with, it seems like the common challenge they have is, is the balance in their life. They're working too much. They're working too hard. They're just burning themselves out. And so one of the, one of the, probably the, the biggest boundaries that we discuss is that work-life balance, right? And I coach them on how to focus on not just get lost in the work and teach them how to delegate, teach them how to work with people that work for them so that they don't have to be there micromanaging them. And all those little lessons that we teach and we talk about are all around helping them create that boundary that says, look, Your kids are going to grow up, and once they're gone, they're gone. Like, they're out. So you need to go enjoy them now while you have them. And, you know, your own health may not be there, so go enjoy life right now. Take your wife to Hawaii now and enjoy it as young people. Don't wait till you're 65, 78. Like, at 65, I mean, that's like right around the corner. But, you know, don't wait. Like, I have I know people who died at 65, right? Right. I know people that worked their whole life and worked their asses off— part of my language— and never got to enjoy it. And so I help entrepreneurs understand that and, and help them figure out how to set those boundaries, right? And, and that's fun, right? That's rewarding. And so, and, and, uh, and that's been a good— that's, that's been good. That's been fun to be able to work with people and see them actually You know, take it to heart. Like, I have one client, every once in a while we have, every Thursday afternoon we have our call at 4 o'clock, which was before this. And, um, there are times when he'll call me from his 12-passenger van when he has his 7 kids in the van. He has 7 kids under the age of 11.

Wow.

Yes. And he'll be driving down the road heading somewhere on vacation. And, you know, 6 months ago that would have never happened. Would've never, ever happened. But on a Thursday afternoon at 4 o'clock, he's like, Chris, I'm getting out of here. So yeah, let's have our call while I'm driving and then I'll talk to you on Monday. And those are things that I look at and think, man, there you go. That's a little bit of a success right there. Yeah.

And this has been a theme of several of the interviews that I've done lately is how do you get yourself to freedom? How do you put trust in The people in your company, right? So that you can take that time, that you can step out and take that break when you need it, or plan that vacation, or even just take the afternoon off. And this, this day and age, right, where, I mean, we're virtual, we are in 2 different states on Riverside FM right now. And I can look at any of my devices and they'll, you know, I'll have WhatsApp group messages going off. I'll have people who've sent me emails that 1 of 5 email addresses looking for things or wanting to communicate. And then the DMs on social media with whether it's friends and family or people who wanna sell you something. We're constantly barraged with all of this input and information. So it can be really hard to say, hey, I'm gonna step out. I'm not gonna look at things. I'm only gonna focus on what's really important. And that is family, that is health. That is the things that you're talking about that Hopefully that's part of why we start our own businesses to begin with is so that, you know, we don't have to work the grind and we don't have to answer to somebody who's going to tell us, no, we can't go to our kids', you know, soccer tournament or school function. Or, I mean, I just got back from taking my daughter to university in Canada. And, you know, that is something that I— is a firm boundary for me. And I think those are the things that we have to think about, but they can be really, really hard to implement. So how do you get your clients out of that mindset? And how did you get out of that mindset too, of we have to grind, we have to be available 24/7, right? We, we have to be beholden to the people who are giving revenue and income to our companies.

You know, um, that's a hard— for some people it's hard, right? But once again, I, I believe that you can establish those boundaries early on and people will respect them and they will work around them. So like, how many people do I know who own businesses that think that they have to be available to their employees 24/7, and they have to prove to their employees that they can outwork them and they're going to work harder and they're working 24 hours a day. Well, that's a mindset. And I think, you know, for example, when I had 50 employees, everyone knew that Thursday I was not around. They just knew that Thursday was the day that Chris was gone. And in the wintertime, I was snowmobiling up in the mountains. In the summertime, I was on a boat with my family or I was on my dirt bike with my friends. And everyone just knew that was the deal. And that was just the boundary I set. And if someone tried to call me on Thursday, the chances are my phone was off or was sitting in my truck, or I was up in the mountains and it wasn't getting a signal. So I think that a lot of entrepreneurs need to realize that they're allowed to set the boundary and they're allowed to hold to it. And people will respect that, even customers. will respect that, right? I mean, the same client I told you about just now who has now figured out how to go on vacation with his family, you know, he used to get calls at 2 in the morning from his clients.

Oh my gosh.

Right. And I, because, you know, I'm like, well, what, what, why do you even answer it? You know, well, it's the client. Well, once again, he has to now train his new clients moving forward that that's just not how it works. Unless it's an emergency. Like, if you just want to call me or send me a message because you had an idea because you can't sleep at 2 in the morning, then email it to me because my notifications are turned off and I'm not even going to hear it, right? And that was another thing I learned years and years ago. I had a coach and he— what his advice to me was to turn off all notifications, you know, your email notifications, your text messages, turn off all notifications and just focus on one task at a time. And if your computer's not beeping at you every 5 minutes when an email comes through, Or your phone's not making noise, it's a lot easier just to not acknowledge it, right? So he was a big fan of avoiding that multitasking and turn everything off. So I still, my phone doesn't make noise, my computer, I could be getting emails all right now and I don't even know it because you know what happens, right? What happens when that little thing says, bloop, you have mail? What are you going to do, Anika? You know what you're going to do.

Well, I have all my notifications turned off as well.

Okay, very good.

Very good. And I usually don't, if somebody tries to call or text, I usually don't look at my phone during the day, especially if it's a day like today where I get to meet with people all day for the podcast, right? So I try to be really present, but 100%, if you see new emails coming through, there is this feeling that, you know, they're urgent and they might, they might be important, but they are most likely not urgent.

Most likely not. And I think if you set the boundary, your customers, your employees, your people around you are going to They're going to settle into it and respect it. Now, of course, on my cell phone, if my kids call or my wife calls, I got that emergency bypass, right?

Yeah, same.

So when that rings, we've got that, right? But yeah, I think it's just you have to really establish the boundaries and hold firm and people will fall in line. I absolutely believe that. Yeah.

So talk about something else with entrepreneurs, right? People who look really successful on paper, They're, maybe they have all the accolades like you, they've been on all the publications, they've received all the awards. But what's a misconception people may have when they see somebody like that about what that founder, what that entrepreneur is actually dealing with underneath all of the pomp and circumstance?

Oh boy. You know, I've known a lot of people, including myself, who have received the awards, I've got this weird relationship with the awards because I don't know if the people that give the awards are really digging deep enough to determine if this person really knows what they're doing or not.

Right.

My definition of a successful business owner is probably a little different than it was 10, 15, 20 years ago. So I don't, I'm not impressed by the awards. I'm not like, I have so many of them that I got so many back in the day. I just am not, it doesn't impress me. And that's a little bit cynical of me, of course. But for me, it's like, well, like for example, I have a former employee that just sold half of his business for $500 million. Okay. This is a kid that used to work for me that tells me that I was his inspiration, that he learned so much from me and he thanks me for teaching him all the things to make him run. You know, this company, which I'm flattered, right? Well, that's a different level of success, in my opinion. That's a guy who actually built something and built it to sell and made it happen and is enjoying the fruits of his labor. And he's not an awards guy. You know, he's just a quiet, humble— if you bumped into him in the street, you wouldn't even know who he is. I mean, if you, if you looked at his shoes, he loves Gucci shoes, which is kind of funny. I give him a hard time about it. Because he's not a Gucci guy. But, you know, I'm like, what are those shoes? He's like, oh, they're Gucci. They're so comfortable. Don't tell anyone they're Gucci. I'm like, because he's just a normal guy and he's not in it for the awards. He's not in it for the accolades. He's not in it to— it's funny. It's funny. And I think in my mind, that's a better, you know, that's success in my mind, right? That's a guy who's focused more on building a business and the culture. The culture in his company is ridiculous. The people and the relationships he has, and the time and effort and money he puts into his employees and the relationships is—I've never seen anything like it. I mean, I walk through his facility; I'm just in awe at what he's built, and the and the relationships and the and the culture. I'll use that word again, and that's his focus, right? His focus is you know when he sold half his business for $500 million, he made his management team millionaires, and now. They're building towards a billion-dollar exit. And the same thing, I mean, his focus is that, and it's cool, right? It's cool. And those are the guys that I admire and I look at and think, you know, that's a good example of what it takes to be successful. It's not the outward appearance. It's not the awards because the guys that are winning the awards are, you know, I won a bunch of awards right before 2008. What happened then? Right?

Right.

I'm glad they didn't come take them back. But, but, you know, yeah. So, so, so I have a funny, a funny, my, you know, looking at awards, I have a different perspective for sure.

Yeah.

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I think that you have a very solid perspective though, because you did have the success. to garner the awards, but you can also look at things like people who are inspired by you, who used to work for you, who are now making those big exits. And I would say that is not an award, but it's a reward. And that's even better, right?

Yeah. And I'll have to admit, there's a couple of those, right? There's another one. Did he build his business, worked for me, built his business and sold it, had a nice exit. He was retired. He's younger than me. He's 10 years younger than me. But he had an exit. Now he doesn't have to work. And I'm like, wow, how'd you figure all that out? And he was on my podcast and he talked about it. He said, Chris, you taught me so much and there's things you taught me that stuck with me and helped me build my business and do what I did. So yeah, those are rewarding for sure. That's a reward. Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Let's talk a little bit about Founders Exchange, right? Because you do coaching, but Founders Exchange is peer advisory. Talk a little bit about what that means and how you decided to form that.

So I've been involved in some peer groups off and on for 35 years, and I've been in some really good ones and I've been in some that were okay. And there was a lot of good that came from that. And so what I decided to do was take the best of all the things I learned over the years from these other peer groups and bring them into Founders Exchange. And so Founders Exchange is a place where business owners, founders, CEOs can come together. We meet once a month and we create a very— we work really hard to create a safe environment where they can come in and talk about the hard stuff. They have a safe place where they can talk about the stuff they can't talk to anyone else about. I mean, I can have a really bad day at work, And I don't really want to come home and talk to my wife about it. Not because I'm trying to keep secrets, not because I'm trying to hide things, but I don't want my stress to project onto her. So I need a place where I can talk about some of that hard stuff. And there's some things you can't talk to your business partner about. There's things you can't talk to your investors about. There's things you can't talk to your employees about. So we create a very safe, safe space. Where we can come in and discuss the hard stuff. Now, one of the rules of our group, if we have a group, is you can't give advice. No advice allowed.

Okay.

Okay.

So think about that, Anika. You're in a room with a bunch of entrepreneurs, right? And we are good at solving problems, right? But if you come into my group and you're part of this group and you're having a challenge and you lay it out on the table, first of all, you feel safe. That it's going to stay in the room. You're not going to get judgment. You're— we're all there to help you. Well, what we're going to do is we're going to dig into our memory banks and we're going to think of experiences where we have actually lived something very similar to what you're going through, and we will share that experience. We will share what we did, how we did it, and how it turned out. And then you can take away from that whatever fits you, right? And so rather than saying, now, Anika, let me tell you what you need to do. I'll tell you what you need to do because I'm super smart. That's hard sometimes. So by creating that safe area, and entrepreneurs, they say it's lonely at the top, and I'll tell you what, it's true. It's true. And so by creating this Founders Exchange and these smaller groups of 8 to 10 business owners, we've seen it's had a great impact. It's had a great impact. We've had some great challenges that have been solved by sharing something that's going on and then everyone in the room sharing an experience and helping that person figure out and resolve it and get after it. It's really been great. Yeah.

So you're creating safe spaces, you're helping entrepreneurs put up boundaries. You've also, you know, you've had challenges that you've bounced back from going back to the example of the financial crisis, but you've also finished Ironmans. You've also survived cancer. You also, like many of us, have gone through divorce and then finding love again and having to balance kids and work and all the other things through all of these different situations. Can you talk a little bit about how life experiences, not just work experiences, helped shape who you are and your perspectives that you bring?

So that's, you know, I mentioned before, I'm a very Optimistic person. So I am really good at looking at the good in everything. You know, even the stuff that happens to us that is hard, there's something good that's going to come out of that. There's some, some good. And in fact, it's sometimes annoying to people around me because I am stupid positive when it, you know, if there's a, you know, it's, if it's raining cats and dogs or snowing 10 feet, I'm always going to put a positive spin on it. So having conditioned myself and having become a student of that way of thinking has really helped me get through a lot of hard times. And I've had some hard ones. I've had some days that were pretty hard, but just having that, the way, thinking that way, looking at everything, putting a positive spin on everything just helps you get through it. And, um, and so now it helps me when I coach other people, you know, I, I can look at challenges that my my clients are having, and I can put a spin on it, and I can change the perspective a little bit. And I've, I've been a— I've been very fortunate to have mentors in my life that, that thought that way and acted that way, that taught me that. And, you know, as you mentioned, when I was diagnosed with cancer, I mean, I almost feel guilty calling myself a cancer survivor, Anika. This is kind of stupid, but I mean, I've had friends lose their lives to cancer. I did not. And, I had cancer, but it never scared me. I just knew I got this, I've caught it early, let's get to work, let's figure out the best form of treatment, and let's go. And, that's just how my whole mindset was throughout the whole thing. I never felt sorry for myself. And, that's just how I'm programmed. I mean, going through a divorce, I knew that there was something better. I still have a great relationship with my ex-wife, the mother of my children, because that's the right thing to do. I was a model ex-husband. I always— I provided for my family. I never— they never went without because I knew that was my responsibility. And I still appreciate her for being the mother of my children. And I'll text her on her birthday and say happy birthday, and I'll text her on my kids' birthday and say thank you for helping me raise such awesome kids. And, and some people think that's silly and it's corny and it's not real, but I'll tell you what, it is real.

Yeah.

You know, it's just how I am. And, and that helps me get through any challenge. You know, Ironman. I remember training for my first Ironman. Now, look, I'm a big guy. I'm not a runner. I'm not an endurance athlete. I was a football player. I was a weightlifter. You know, for me to go run a mile was, whoa, that was hard, right? But for me to do an Ironman, my coach walked me through this process and every day I did something new. Every day I broke a new record. Every day I thought, well, I ran 5 miles yesterday. I'll run 8 miles tomorrow. And my mind got to a point where I could just do it. And that was how most of the coaching, you know, Yogi Berra, he was the great Yankees catcher from back in the day. And he had this quote that he said, success in baseball is 90% mental and the other half is physical. Okay. That's some good math, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

But it's so true. It's so true. My coach for Ironman, Was that he was like, "Look, we gotta you gotta be mentally prepared to do this, and don't worry, the physical part will just it'll happen, right?" And and and that's how I did it. And so then when the second Ironman came along, and this is right before my cancer diagnosis, but the second Ironman came along, and it was so much easier to train for. Why? Because I did one, and I didn't die, and I got it done. I actually did pretty good. So the second one's like the mental part. It's there. All I had to do is work on getting a little bit better and a little bit faster so I can improve on the last one. So I think that mindset just carries through everything, every part of your life, your personal life, your family life, your business life. I think, man, I just can't imagine how sad it would be going through life with a negative, pessimistic outlook on life. It's just not the— I feel sorry for those people.

Yeah.

Because that's not how I do it.

It's really inspiring. I am always optimistic as well, and I think it is hard sometimes for people to understand when you have that personality that you're always going to look for the next good. And even in business, something doesn't happen the way you want it to happen, but you already know something else, something better is going to come along, or that was a lesson you could learn to retool something in your business. So, you're at the point now, you have Bootstraps and Battle Scars, you have your show. Talk to us a little bit about that.

Well, I just love stories. I love hearing from other entrepreneurs. And so, the whole idea behind Bootstraps and Battle Scars is just that. I want to talk to people who have bootstrapped, who have just built themselves from the bottom or built themselves self-made and they turned into something Good. And then the battle scars, in my opinion, are those bad days, those moments we have, and those are the lessons that we've learned along the way. And here I am, I'm a coach and a mentor and a consultant, and I'm relying on my experience to teach other people and to help other people. I don't have a college degree. I don't have— I've read a lot of books. I've read a lot of books, and the books I love the most Or the stories about people who have done it and built it and had success in some of the things they did. And so Bootstraps and Battle Scars is just that. So on my podcast, I'm bringing in those entrepreneurs, those guys that have done it, they built it. And I want to hear their stories. I want to hear the times when they got their stuff handed to them. I want to hear about the times they had great success. I just want to hear those stories. And I think by telling stories, I think there's more lessons that can be learned. Because, you know, Annika, you and I can listen to the exact same story from somebody else and probably take away something a little different, right? So by getting people to tell their stories and ask questions and dig a little deeper, I think, you know, whoever listens will get whatever message they're looking for, and it'll be different for everybody. And so that's the premise of my podcast. I'm right in the middle. I'm getting ready now to record my next batch of a podcast. So I've got a few entrepreneurs lined up and there's one guy I really want on my podcast really bad. And that's the guy I told you about who just had a $500 million exit and now is building it. And I just can't get him on the podcast because he's like, I'm just not ready for you. I'm just not there yet, Chris. And I'm like, come on, let's do it. Let's do it. Because he really did. He has a great story about how he grew up in a small town, You know, his grandpa was an electrician, his dad was kind of electrician. I hired him to be my electrician, and then somehow he just did something different than anyone in his family had ever done and built this, you know, billion-dollar company. And it's just a great story, and I just love that stuff. And I, I do believe that we absolutely live in the greatest country on this earth, and there's so much opportunity here. And there's the only thing holding people back from Being happy and being successful is, is themselves. Actually just hurts me when I hear people talk about how, well, I can't do that. I'm, I'm not smart enough, or I'm not good enough, or I'm not whatever, whatever, whatever. I just, I don't believe in that. Not at all. There, you know, how often do we hear stories of people that pulled themselves out of nothing and made something of their lives, right? And I think that's just how it works. That's just the American way.

Wonderful.

So I'm curious, do you see something happening in small business and entrepreneurship right now that you don't think people are paying enough attention to? Hmm.

My, I might have a fear of sorts. You know, the middleman, the middle, well, let's see, how do I say this? This is going to be hard to explain, but for example, owning a restaurant, restaurant business is hard. And what I'm seeing and I'm seeing in my market is there's only 2 types of restaurants that make it. There's the small, mom-and-pop shop that is one unit that the owners are micromanaging everything, they're controlling everything, and they're having success and they're making money and they're— and everything's great. And then there's the big boys where it's the, the big industry giants that have all the systems and all the processes and all the backing, and they're not having— they don't have one unit, they have 50 units or 100 units, and anything in between is very difficult. I had 3 restaurants and it was hard, and that's a hard place to be because you're kind of in this limbo where you're not quite big enough to scale and compete with the big boys, and you're too big to be the mom-and-pop that controls everything. And I think that's happening in a lot of different industries. I see it happening in the home service provider industry, like the heating and air conditioning and plumbers and electricians, where these big private equity firms are coming in and rolling up all these companies. And because they're so big and they're getting such great pricing, it's just hard for the small guy to compete. So I'm a huge fan of mom-and-pop. I try to support them as much as I can. But here's a sad story. I can't go anywhere around here and get a good steak unless I go to a large chain. I have zero mom-and-pop steakhouse restaurants because they don't exist. And it's kind of sad that they're going away. And it's in part because I think we need to put a little more emphasis on let's go frequent the small guy. Let's go support them. Let's go, you know, help them pay their bills and feed their family. So, yeah, I'm not sure if that really answered your question, but that's a, that's a little fear I have is just watching that interesting dynamic. And there's a lot of industries that are going towards that big, uh, you know, kind of giant corporate model that's really squeezing out some of the small guys.

Yeah. Yeah. No, it's something to think about because the one thing a lot of people always say is the technology aspect is like, are we losing jobs through technology or are we creating opportunities? And it's a little bit of both, but it is rough to hear that it's so bad with the brick and mortars as well, or the small businesses, because we think about those small businesses as the backbone. of our communities and as the jobs that are safe from AI or other technology taking them over, right? So, but they still all have their own challenges too.

Yeah. And you mentioned AI. I mean, I'm fascinated by AI. I use it. I mean, it's a tool. It's a great tool, but it's just that. It's a tool. It does make our job a little easier. It does help us get things done, but Yeah, I think that's an interesting idea. I love the idea. My boys are all blue collar. I mean, I have a welder son, I have a mechanic son, I have an engineer son, and they're all just out there getting dirty and making it happen. And those jobs are never going away in my opinion. There are machines that do weld things. In fact, they have one of those at their shop, but it's limited and they still need humans to go out there and And do the welding. So, you know, I love that. I love the trades. I think there's a lot of potential there. I think there's a lot of money to be made. You know, there's a lot of success that can be had by being a blue-collar worker. And I would encourage more people to do that.

Lots for us to think about. And I love all of the different places that our conversation went today, Chris. I have 2 last questions. Just, of course, we're going to have all of your links in the show notes. But I always do ask if my guests have a favorite quote, mantra, verse, poem, a family motto, words that continue to inspire you. Now, you've certainly given us many during this interview, but if there's anything else, and this could be the same or it could be different for the part 2, is what is one thing every entrepreneur needs to do right now to make their business a little bit better? Hmm.

Okay.

So first one is, Like a favorite quote?

Yes.

Okay. Well, the first one that just popped into my mind is a quote from Henry Ford. Um, he said something along the lines of, whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right.

Yeah.

Um, you can probably tell that I have a certain way of thinking and, and that's a big one that tickled up for me. Um, so that one's always stuck, stuck with me. Um, and then the second one is what can an entrepreneur do right now to improve their business?

Yeah.

Find a mentor, find somebody who you look up to, who's had success even within your same industry, and go meet with them and pick their brain and listen to how they did it and apply it. I mean, I've had mentors that were in my industry that were competitors, but they were, they had that abundance mindset and they were willing to help me because their mindset was, hey, Chris, if you're a better contractor, And it's good for the industry and it's good for our market. And I know if we're, you and I are going to compete against each other for a big house, I know that you're going to build it right. Right. So there's a lot of great business owners that think that way. So yeah, go find a mentor and go find someone who can help you and coach you and give you some advice and give you some inspiration. I'm a big fan of that.

Yeah. Amazing. This has been so fun. And I know this is just the tip of the iceberg with all of the stories and the advice you can share with us today. So I'll look forward to directing everybody to your podcast, to the stories that you're telling and sharing, to, you know, think about who can you find as a mentor and maybe finding a community, a peer group like the Founders Club has, where you can share with others in a nonjudgmental space and grow as a business leader yourself. So thank you, Chris. Yeah.

Well, thank you, Anika. We did kind of COVID some ground, didn't we?

So that was fun. We did. We sure did. But that's That's the best. I love it. And it just, it continues to inspire me and I look forward to our continued conversations.

Awesome. Thank you.

Yeah. And thank you to everybody who is watching this episode or listening to it on your favorite platform. Please leave us a rating review, check out Chris's show, Bootstraps and Battle Scars, and tune in to my next episode for another amazing guest who's gonna share their story, their journey, and some things that you can think about for your own business. Right now, don't forget to leave us a rating or review on your favorite podcast listening platform. And if you want to learn more, check us out at yourbrandamplified.com. Trick or treat!

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