Saket Kapoor: The Three Pillars of Successful RevOps Leadership

Business. Business. Business. Business. Ah, that sounds all right.

Welcome to Go-To-Market, a podcast for RevOps, sales, and marketing leaders to dive deep into industry insights and best practices. Go-To-Market is sponsored by Fulcast, the go-to-market cloud. My name is Dr. Amy Cook, and I am so excited to introduce to you today Saket Kapoor, go-to-market strategy and RevOps leader who has worked at companies like Citrix and Deloitte and Accenture. And he is here in the studio with us today. Hi, Saket, how are you?

I'm doing great, Amy. Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you so much for being willing to come on to the show and talk to us about So much, so many burning questions that I have personally, and some of them we talked about as we did the pre-show in our conversation together. So, Saket, can you just start off by telling me a little bit about your background? How did you get into RevOps?

Yeah, sure, Amy Cook. So I got into RevOps about 10 years back when I finished business school and started getting into the world of management consulting, spent 6 years at a couple of different consulting firms where most of my work was in the space of go-to-market strategy. And that sort of was a logical transition into RevOps. So looking at how to optimize the sales process, looking at improving seller productivity, helping companies through annual planning, and that's kind of organic— organically led into getting into RevOps.

Oh, that sounds— that is amazing. And what's interesting to me is, as I've interviewed other leaders like yourself, it is a very natural progression for people to start in either sales or marketing, move into strategy, and then move into RevOps, where, as I'm finding out more and more about this incredible community, is a combination of all of them together And you have to be the most strategic about revenue, the most informed about sales and marketing, and have a very strong operational background as well. And that to me seems like finding a needle in a haystack.

You're absolutely right, Amy Cook. I like to categorize it and say that, you know, from my experience, to be successful in RevOps, you really need to Number 1, be data native. So you really need to be very comfortable with navigating a lot of data. Number 2, you need to be a clarity creator. You need to be able to sort of synthesize the, the so what and the key insights. And, and number 3 is you need to be able to create forward momentum because a lot of what RevOps identifies requires change and, and change management. And you need to have— the successful candidate needs to be able to drive through each of those 3 pillars.

That is so, so interesting to me. So what you're saying is like RevOps is really like the backbone of a go-to-market strategy. Is that right?

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Interesting. Can you explain a little bit more? Can you tell me those pillars one more time and kind of explain a little bit more about each?

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, Amy Cook, you know, first of all, RevOps is no longer just about being a a data short order cook, you know, like the kind of job where you're expected to go in, churn out reports and dashboards on the fly. That might have been the case 5 years ago, but RevOps teams now have become revenue problem solvers. They're taking this holistic view of the sales motions, the customer journeys, and really the friction points between departments. They're not just diagnosing problems, they're finding the root cause, offering solutions, whether that's, you know, process or people or tech-driven. And if you're just using RevOps to just pull data and build reports, you're missing out on a ton of value that they can bring to the business. You know, so that's number one. Number two, you know, technology is, as you know, is really changing everything. And RevOps is at the forefront of this. I like to think about this You might have heard of this concept called the Deal 360 Holy Grail. Okay. And I think we're not still there yet, but RevOps teams, they are pushing the boundaries. They're using AI, they're using natural language processing, they're using advanced big data platforms to create that complete picture of the customer journey. Imagine knowing all the exact touchpoints and messages that work best for each customer. It's happening. It's not just in the future. It's happening today. And, you know, the other thing is also in, as you know, today we are in this capital efficiency mode where every, the mantra is do more with less. And I believe RevOps really helps businesses get the most out of their, out of their tech stack. I read somewhere that, you know, most— an average B2B enterprise software company has somewhere from 20 to 25 core systems in their GTM stack alone.

Oh my gosh.

Imagine the waste. And RevOps, you know, takes that hard look at what's working, what's not, and finds the most efficient way to drive revenue using the tools you already have. And then the last point is about data integrity, which we all know is such a huge challenge for so many organizations.

Yes.

But you've got marketing math, you've got sales math, you've got investor math, and none of this ever lines up. No wonder, you know, CROs and CFOs are skeptical about the data. And I believe this is where RevOps truly, truly shines. They unify the data. They create that single source of truth that everyone can trust. Instead of debating whether the data is accurate, you can actually use it to, you know, make decisions and run the business. And, and that's where I believe RevOps adds the most value.

I want to touch on like 10 million things that you just said, and I'm going to start with the first one. I love your analogy. That RevOps are not the short-order cooks that just pull the reports. And I think that in the past, you're right, I've worked with leaders in the past that have had the title RevOps a few years ago, but really they were, they were sales data analysts is what they were, right? Now RevOps now is like a master chef, right? If we're using that same analogy, they're the ones that are deciding what we're serving, how we're serving it, what tastes good, what's the quality of the ingredients. And I just think that that analogy that you just presented was very masterful and in a very real way accentuates how much RevOps is the orchestrator of all of those elements. And in so doing, I loved also what you said about being able to get past those fighting about whose data is right conversations and really talking about using it. So can you explain, what did you think? Do you like that analogy about the master chef and pulling it all together?

I do, because quite often I found, just going back to the example of— and I've seen this in several organizations where you've got, Marketing team is trying to pull data on their success metrics on how many leads they're generating, how many are getting converted, and then sales is using some other set of data for what's qualified. And of course, they never match up. And then you've got finance teams pulling up data for CAC and other metrics that they're trying to present to the board. And And I feel that there's, you know, RevOps is the only team that can kind of unify all those functions together and bring the data from just throughout across the sales funnel from top of the funnel, middle of the funnel and bottom of the funnel. And, you know, a lot of the really good RevOps teams are using AI to add value across that sales funnel.

I, I want to talk more about AI because everyone's talking about AI, and some people are using it really well and some people are not using it well. And, and I think it's really interesting, just as a marketing person myself, um, how I'm personally using AI is a lot of prospecting, a lot of, um, taking what I'm already doing and amplifying the volume a lot. Um, how do see RevOps leaders using AI to provide that single source of truth?

Yeah, you know, I think when I look at AI, it's— I, I look at it as, you know, looking at it from the entire sales process, the top of the funnel, middle of the funnel, and the bottom of the funnel. You know, when I start looking at the top of the funnel, you know, we see that AI is now able to analyze multiple data points simultaneously, you know, things like hiring trends, funding announcements, even certain signals that the market might be giving that tells the seller that a certain company is ready to buy. And what's really cool about this is it's not just about pulling data. AI can make sense of it and it can help the sellers get more efficient, get more productive, and target the right accounts more accurately. So that's number one. Their reps aren't wasting time on on bad leads. They're prioritizing and focusing on the right account. Then you get into the sort of middle of the funnel, you know, how do you use AI to streamline that whole process? For example, there's AI-driven tools that can help your sellers automate follow-ups. Imagine getting reminders for that crucial follow-up email right when it's most needed. Or just managing your calendar to find the next best time for a meeting. And it's even helping during sales calls. I mean, we all know about Gong and other tools, but, you know, AI can, they can pull up relevant data in real time, suggest next best actions, and make sure that no critical detail slips through the cracks. And all this is really allowing your sales, your sellers to become more productive. And of course, RevOps has a big role to play to sort of get the processes in place to make all this work. And then when you go to the bottom of the funnel, that's when things get really interesting because, you know, the AI doesn't stop once the deal closes. At the bottom of the funnel, it's tracking engagement, product usage, and even identifying opportunities for upsell or cross-sell. You know, for instance, AI can flag customers that are ripe for upsell based on how they're interacting with your product. And so it's not just helping to close deals, but it's also helping build long-term relationships. And I feel this is where sort of the art and the science meet, and sellers can really focus on what they do best, which is, you know, building the relationships with customers and then AI takes over all, takes out all the mundane activities.

I love that. I think that that makes so much sense. One of the things that we do with Fulcast, because we're also AI enabled, is we do all of our modeling using AI. And so it's very exciting. You know, we think of Fulcast as like a kind of a sales sandwich with capacity planning and quota planning and targets and territory management. Lead routing all together as kind of like our, our main core product. And then we have over the top of it the AI modeling, so we can do things like territory balancing in, you know, down to the most granular level in 30 minutes or less. And, and that kind of stuff is exactly what you're talking about, which is making humans more efficient, getting rid of some of the manual labor, helping us see better Um, and, and I love also when you're talking about top of funnel metrics as part of the RevOps process, because we need all the help we can get in marketing. We have privacy issues that we have to deal with. We have sales leaders coming to us saying, why can I not see this person-level data? And I say, it's because Google won't let us have it, you know. And so we're dealing with all sorts of like partial data and incomplete data and Developing a very strong relationship with someone like you, our RevOps leader, helps to not only make the data better but also have those conversations with other people in go-to-market saying, this data is not available, this data is available, this is how we can append the data, this is how we can get around it. And I really love working with people like you who have that full funnel perspective.

Yeah. And I, I think, you know, also one of the parts of a RevOps leader is to really help prioritize what are the most impactful projects to, to work on, because there's, there's always going to be more stuff to work on than the capacity.

Right. That's right.

And that's the part that, you know, I see You know, good RevOps leaders really are able to prioritize and pick the right projects that are going to move the needle for, for sales and marketing leaders.

That's so interesting. So like, let's just say that you understand that a project— I'm just going to give you a particular example. At a former company that I was at, I asked the RevOps leader, to do a project that sat for 6 months and just never got done that was really crucial to me, but not as important to the sales team. And because this RevOps person was technically— was more sales ops, um, she never did my project. So, and it really, like, it was actually quite difficult for me to get her to not have that done. So how do you— like, for me as a marketing leader or a different leader, what's the best way to approach you as a RevOps leader to help articulate the prioritization of it? And how do you, in your mind, prioritize which one should get done first?

Yeah, that's a great question, Amy Cook. I think implementing implementing RevOps initiatives requires careful planning and change management. Every single project must be scoped meticulously. You start with the discovery and then you move through build and delivery and then culminating in measurement and adoption. And as you're thinking about prioritizing, I think the discovery phase is crucial. You really need to know whether this project, in order to be successful in this project, what, you know, what is the investment needed? What, you know, do we have the foundational data model in place? Are we going to, is this going to be a huge time suck with minimal impact? So you've got to constantly balance the effort and impact and see, you know, especially when you're starting out, pick the, pick the projects that you know you're going to be able to make an impact in a relatively short timeframe, prove the value, and then build on. Don't take on something that where, you know, as a RevOps leader that you don't have the foundational data elements in place and it's going to just take too long and you lose steam. You wanna prioritize the ones that you know you're going to be successful with in a short time. And then as you gain value and trust in the organization from sales leaders, that's when you start building momentum. And that's kind of how I always think about prioritizing.

That's very interesting. So starting with, like, as trust-building exercises, starting off with smaller projects where you can get an immediate win and that are highly impactful. So then they're like, OK, this, this person I can trust. I— we, we can build things together with. Now we're going to do some longer-term projects that will pay off in the long run. But because you've already had some early successes, then you can, um, you take that like a currency to the bank, essentially.

Absolutely.

Yeah, that's a great strategy. Um, what suggestions would you have for me as a marketing leader to to best speak your language, to say, hey, this is a really important priority to me. What's— what should I say to, to you to help you understand the prioritization? And then like, what— like, let's say that it's not that much of a priority. What would you say and how would you let me down easy or not let me down easy?

Yeah, I, you know, I think, I think a lot of this work involves, you know, it's cross-functional. You got to have, you got to have buy-in from your, your sales leaders, your marketing leaders, your CS leaders, your pre-sales leaders, and really figure out starting from top down, what is the overall sales priorities that the company wants to achieve in the next year and the next 3 years, whether that's, you know, moving to a subscription model or this growing adoption of our, from our existing install base. So you need to have clarity on what are the key sales priorities. And then from there, you work downwards from that and say, okay, for each of the initiatives that we are trying to prioritize, How does it directly tie into the sales priorities? And then how do we, how are we going to, once we build this out, how are we going to measure the impact? Do we have the right cadences? Do we have the right operating rhythm so we can bring in this measurement in our QBRs, in our leadership meetings so that we don't just build it and then let it sit there gathering dust? It has to be incorporated. So You know, make sure you're thinking about the right KPIs, the right measurements, and make sure it's part of the ongoing cadence.

That's very important. I see. So positioning it as not a marketing project, but as a project that supports the overall growth initiatives of the entire go-to-market organization. And based in those priorities, that's an excellent repositioning there. I love that. Well, we're talking about planning and we're talking about how to put things into the overall structure. I want to ask you just a little bit about capacity planning, if that's okay. How does that figure into the whole go-to-market strategy?

Yeah, that's the age-old problem, right? How many reps do you really need? And I think— so what is sales capacity planning? At the core, you're trying to make sure you have the right number of people in the right roles with the right resources to hit those targets that you have. It sounds pretty straightforward, but it's anything but that. You know, on one hand, you need to have enough number of reps that can capture your addressable market or addressable spend. But on the other hand, you don't want to have too many reps that they're kind of stepping on each other's toes and stealing opportunities from and leads from each other. So that's where you need to start building this sales capacity model. And you start with your revenue target, the territories that you have, the average deal size, historical performance, average time it takes to close a deal. And then you put together this puzzle and figure out, for example, if you've got $10 million in revenue targets, you look at your average deal size, which may be about $100,000. Then you factor in how many deals on average each rep can realistically close in a year. And you start looking at historical data, let's say each rep can close 10 deals annually so that you, to hit $10 million, you need 10 fully ramped reps. So it sounds easy, but this is where it becomes tricky because you've got to account for things like ramp time, how long it's going to realistically take to close deals, and even, you know, throw in some cushion for unpredictability. It's It's a lot of science. That's what the data sort of tells you. But then there's also a lot of art because the data can only tell you what's happened in the past. It can't tell you what's going to happen necessarily in the future. And that's where you need to work with sales leaders because those are the guys that really know, guys and gals who really understand their market, know what their territories are like. And you got to get, make sure you're getting early input from them. So that's sort of been the traditional sales capacity model. And what I like to do is use, you know, what is called the waterfall model. And the waterfall model, or the— it's all about tracking the progression of leads through your sales funnel. So you start with your MQLs and you look historically, maybe you look at the past 4 quarters or 8 quarters and see how many of your MQLs have converted into sales qualified leads? How many of those converted into opportunities? And eventually, how many converted into closed deals? And you build that sort of model from that historic data and you work backwards from that and say, okay, if, if I know X percentage is converting through each stage of the funnel, I can back in and say how many, not just sellers, but how many SDRs would I need to handle those, those, or generate those leads? How many marketers would I, would I need? And you know, what's really cool is you can combine this sales capacity, what the top-down model with the waterfall model, which is the sort of more of the bottoms-up model and really come to a better predictor of your capacity that you're going to need. And that's what I've seen really work well, where you sort of combine both top-down and bottoms-up to come up with a model.

That is fascinating and so important. And I love what you said about the art and the science and the data looking backwards and then the sales leadership looking forwards and being able to understand it that way. That is— that's really awesome. Well, I have to ask you this, Saket, because you are at the very top of your game. Like, your career is absolutely incredible. What do you do to stay on top?

You know, honestly, Amy Cook, what I do is I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn. And really, it's— out of what I like to say is out of 100%, maybe 5% is actually useful. And really connecting with true— subject matter experts and thought leaders in the field. And I try to sort of stay on top of their content, build relationships with them in, and every week I try to have at least 3 conversations with practitioners in RevOps, go-to-market strategy, learn about some of the challenges they're having in their organization and, and just share what I know, learn from them and I feel that's, that's really the, the best way to learn and stay on top of your game from practitioners who are actually feeling that pain and then being innovative and solving it in, in unique ways. So that's kind of what I like to do and just to stay on top of the RevOps world.

That's amazing. And one thing that I have noticed, that I've noticed and has been a very strong theme throughout just getting to know other people in the community is how important that community is and how important conversations with each other are. And I feel like I have just started getting to know the true greats of the revenue organization, the real wizards behind the curtain who are making everything happen, who are tying everything together. And in a very real way, I feel like RevOps leaders are the unsung heroes that are really driving revenue in the organization and enabling everyone to fulfill their own work and be successful in their own areas. So it doesn't surprise me at all that you guys have a very tight community and that you all continue to learn from each other. And I think that culture of learning and growth is super admirable.

Indeed.

Yeah, I love it. Well, Saket, thank you so much for your time. I know that you're very busy and it really means a lot that you would spend the time doing this podcast with us. I very much appreciate it. And I just wondered if you have any last thoughts about RevOps being the backbone of the go-to-market strategy, bringing it all full circle.

Yeah, I would say that, you know, RevOps is still, you know, although it has advanced in the past several years, I think it's a great field for folks to get into. I think there's a lot of potential in the future, especially as AI evolves. And, you know, I think it's a great career path to really understand the nuts and bolts of a go-to-market organization. And I would encourage young folks to take a look at this discipline and consider getting into it.

That's wonderful. Well, thank you again so much, Saket. I really appreciate your time and all of your expertise. It's just been an absolute pleasure.

Thank you, Amy Cook.

I enjoyed it.