The Lotus is out. Or is it?

Welcome to Prodigal Persiflage. We're delighted to have you with us. This is a podcast from the same morons who brought you the Prodigal Guide. So these are audio ramblings around the world of high end watches, cars and gadgets. I'm Andrew Carrier and this episode of Persiflage is. Is something of a reactive affair, prompted as it was rather spontaneously by a text message I received from Prodigal Guide co founder Erik Drossen. Eric, who most of you know has long driven the streets of Belgium in a car devoid of windows, windscreen or even doors, a ludicrous Lotus 211. Now, it seemed he'd seen the light and I wanted to delve in to find out more. I hope you enjoy the show. If you do, please share it with a friend. Otherwise, please share it with an enemy. With that said, let's dive into the Persiflage. So, Eric, hello and welcome to the latest episode of Persiflage.

I like the way you welcome me to these things.

It's very polite welcome and I'd just like you to relax. I know that this is a surprise emergency persiflage and you don't actually know the topic. You don't know what we're going to talk about, do you?

No, which is why I'm terrified.

Yes, and perhaps you should be. So this emergency episode of Persiflage was prompted by an innocuous little text message that I received about a week ago. Go. I was minding my own business on a Friday morning, going about my day, and I thought, for all intents and purposes, it was going to be a normal day. But no, it was not. Because that's when I received this text from you. I'm just going to read it out. Give me your preference. Mercedes Benz 560sec, Porsche 928 S4 or BMW 840? 850. That was it. That was the text.

Now I. Andrew, to be perfectly accurate, and for the two people listening to this crap, it was actually a 928s forward slash, S4.

Forgive me, you're right, you're right. I paraphrase. Yes, it's a 928S or 98S. Thank you. Now. Now, just as I was reading that, thinking, what the actual fuck is going on with Eric? And then this was like, this is 10:30 on a Friday morning. So I knew that even you couldn't be drunk yet. And I thought to myself, I was just trying to make out what the heck. And then There was a follow up

text

and it says contemplating a boss man ride as a potential next step. And here's the interesting bit and this is what I want to talk to you about. The next text says would mean selling the Lotus, but things change and I welcome that.

I like how you seized on that as the little magic nugget that's put a little spring in your step leading

up to this conversation. Yeah. So this, this is not going to be one of those juvenile, hey, what's bet what's best, the 928S4 or the Merc 560sec? We'll get into that, I suppose a little bit, but I think what I'm mostly interested in digging into a little bit is what the hell has happened to make you get to the stage where you're contemplating selling the Lotus, which by the way is an excellent idea. And buying one of these, I'd say what, 1980s, 1990s, 1980s, aren't they? These are late 1980s cars, Andrew.

The 8 Series, if I'm not mistaken, is nine days. So I think, let's put it this way, they straddle and I know you like that word, they. The 80s and the 90s. How about that?

Who doesn't enjoy straddling?

Actually in the case of the 928, it's beyond that, it's 70s, 80s and 90s.

Well, the S4 was late 80s, early 90s, but I'm talking as usual, I haven't researched any of this before joining the episode. Okay, so we'll come to the specific cars that you chose. All of which are slightly misguided by the way, because you've missed the obvious one, but we'll come back to that. Thank you. But what's happened? What's happened? Why are you finally thinking of getting rid of the Lotus?

This is a difficult one. I'm going to pick up on apparently what I wrote you, which I've completely forgotten of course by now, given I've got Alzheimer's. But you said things change and I welcome that. I think it comes from a place of whether it's watches, hi fi, art, music, culture, wives, you know, things like that. You are inherently different from the person you were. I'd say sometimes as short as a couple of months ago, but definitely in the case of a decade. And it was a decade ago that I purchased the Lotus 211 in an absolute fit of insanity. And I believe you bought your Audi RS6 almost exactly around the same time as me.

Yes, yes, mine was a sensible Choice. Yours was insanity.

You know, Andrew, if you want to call a V10 Twin Turbo Sane, then be my guest, sweetheart.

Built by Italians at the Lamborghini factory. Anyway, this episode is not about my sensible Audi. It's about your insane Lotus.

Okay, so.

So you had it for a decade, right?

So I had it for a decade. I've put almost 30,000 miles on it and it had 2,000 miles when I got it. And I think I've arrived at a

point that's just going backwards and forwards to the repair dealership, I guess.

The Lotus has been repaired exactly twice the entire time it's been with me. Get that. We won't talk about your RS6 because like you said, that's worthy of a different episode, Right? It could take up 45 minutes. So you arrive at a point, Andrew, where you ask yourself, what more can I do with it besides repeat what I've done before? Which is not necessarily a bad thing. It's just, it isn't new.

So you're bored. You're bored of it.

No, you can't be bored of a Lotus. And by the way, I wrote that to you, then hopped in the Lotus and said, are you absolutely out of your mind? You can never let this thing go. It's like drinking fire and coming out intact. So. But you do arrive at a point where you say where is a novel experience behind it? And this goes back to the cars that you and I saw growing up and you know, kind of poured over brochures and salivated all the Boss guys driving 560secs, like Bobby Brown and the rest of them, the 928 and Risky Business. The BMW 8 series, interestingly enough, is something that I came across much later on. So that's a late addition to that list. But essentially iconic big money cars from the 80s, right?

Well, yes, yes, big money cars, but also they're a very particular kind of car. They're what I would call a Grand Tour each. They are.

Absolutely.

And so I think it's an interesting switch to go from what is effectively a sort of go kart track only thing to. I mean, it's almost diametrically opposed. These are big luxo barges, aren't they?

They, they absolutely are. Without. Well, the Porsche 928, you can make a somewhat of an argument that It's a sportier GT. But the 560 ACC. Absolutely not. Total Volt like barge. And the 8 Series, I wouldn't care so much about the handling either. I mean, okay, so what is it? Ease you Know that moment, you know, we talked a lot about how your tastes changed, but your rhythm, your pace changes as well. And for me, that was very, very informative of how I suddenly felt about these things. I wouldn't have looked at them 10 years ago and suddenly now they dawned on me as what a wonderful way to spend time.

Well, you don't need to convince me. I mean, these are cars I've been coveting for years. I've always liked this kind of car. You know, this is very much my thing.

So, Andrew, it's not just also that these are kind of like the boss man luxury barges that obviously we would have looked up to when we were teens. And I'd argue a lot of our taste and a lot of our emotional connection points develop when we're teenagers.

Right.

It's when we feel probably strongest about many things. But in any case, I looked at him and I suddenly thought, if time is the most precious commodity that I have and I really want to savor a moment, I don't want to speed it up, then wouldn't it be lovely to sit in something like that? And I really do say sit in it, lay back and let the car wash over you.

So does this mean you're abandoning the idea of track days and hardcore driving?

I wish it was that easy, but I think that the driver, forgive the pun behind it, Andrew, was if you're gonna leave all that behind, then would you like to have something in the middle? Would you like to swan around in vanilla and lukewarm water? And the answer to that is a categorical fuck no. If you're gonna go big, then go diametrically opposed.

So, yes, as usual, you're a man of extremes. Yes. And if you can't go hardcore track car, you're gonna go to the other extreme.

Absolutely. And what is the most emblematic car of absolute surety and total Teutonic terror? It's a 560sec, a 928 and I'd argue the eight series. Although I'm very curious to what you think I've left off the list.

Okay, so I'm going to tell you what I think you've left off the list. Well, two things. I'm going to tell you what I think you left off the list, but I'm also going to tell you to do that. I'm going to tell you how I think you created the list in the first place because I can see inside your psyche. But before we get to that, I just want to ask you the obvious question, which I think, I feel like this question comes into any discussion about a potential car purchase and that is 911,

Andrew. I struggled with that as well. You know, lovely 911 SC with a G50 gearbox. All this kind of, you know, if you get, if the prices weren't through the roof, a lovely first gen 911 Turbo Insanity to drive. Turbo lag of the kazoo responsible for sending people off the road to their deaths.

But you could go, you could, you could go in the same vein. You could go for. Is it the 9, 6, 4 series? I can't remember. I always get confused. But you know the one, the one after the 993, whatever that was.

The one after. So the one after the 993, although we're kind of jumping decades here, the one after the 993 is the 996. That's the same gen as the box when you had it. Yeah.

Oh, no, in that case, I'm not thinking about that one. I'm thinking about the one before the993.

You want the one. So the one before the964, Andrew, you want the gen before that, which is literally, if I'm not mistaken, just for the 911. No, no, no.

Okay.

Not the 964. The generation before. Okay, well that's the 80s.

It almost. Yes, the 80s, whatever. With the, you know, with the headlights that are still sort of upright and the one we grew up with basically is. And you can go, you know, for a Carrera 2 or, you know, 4. Keep it simple. Those are affordable. Why did you discount that?

I don't. I wouldn't want a sports car. I'm leaving. I would be leaving behind should I ever decide to sell the Lotus. And again, this is not a. Not a certainty, but it's something I really deeply thought about. I would leave behind. Any pretense to sporting that for me is hypocrisy. It's pure hypocrisy. I could never get anything close to what I have in the Lotus 211 short of dropping 350k. And even then I'm not sure I would find it. So my idea, Andrew, was literally to pack up my things and move into a completely different place altogether.

You want something which is unashamedly luxo. Luxo Barge.

You got it.

Yeah, okay. No, yeah, I do get it. And actually you could get that sort of comfort from a, from a modern 911, but you're right, you couldn't get it from those 80s, 90s, no, by

the way, they're bloody agricultural. I mean, I, you know, we can talk all day about how they're, how usable they are, but they're agricultural in a lot of ways and that's not the point.

Okay, so now I'm going to delve into your side keep. I mean, actually, you've already revealed it. It's that list that you've compiled. I mean, I think this is pretty much what you said a little bit earlier. It's, it's very much based on the cards that were coming out as new when you and I were growing up. So when we were 16, 17, 18, and you know, that establish themselves as seminal cars for a generation. Really.

Yes, more. More than that. More than that, even if you think about it.

And in the case of the 928, I mean, there had been earlier iterations, as you mentioned, but it was really that. It was when the 928S4 came out that it really, I think, you know, first of all, we were of that age where we were most impressionable. But also it just felt like that that really was the peak, you know, of that design. Yes, and I think the same is true of the, well, the 560sec. And yes, as you said, the 840, 850 BMW came a little bit later than that. Yes, but, but yeah, okay, so if, if that insight into your psyche is correct and you admit to it, then I'm going to tell you the obvious car that you left off the list. And I'm amazed that you did.

Yeah, I thought you told me it was the 911. What's this something?

No, no, the 911 was just, you know, I think any conversation about cars, you need to at least talk about the 911 because. Yes, of course, 99 of the time, the 911 is actually the answer, but. Okay, we've dismissed it. No, but based on the criteria that you just laid out, seminal cars that came out when you and I were of that impressionable age, I can't believe that you haven't put this one on the list. And I can't believe that as we're talking about it now, you don't. Do you want to guess? Can you not think what I'm going to say?

Okay, is it German?

Yes, of course it's German.

Well, hold on then. We're running out of brands then. Who have I forgotten? Audi, a V8? Am I.

No, you're completely off.

Okay, tell me, do you remember there

was a little drinking hole across the road from our School.

It's called Le College.

Le College. We spent most of our time in there. We should have been in class. We spent most of our time in there drinking coffees, smoking cigarettes and playing video games. Right. Do you remember the owner of that, of that dive bar?

Well, Andrew, it had multiple owners. I remember one of them who had a ne belle bicolor chronograph.

He had anel watch with a blue feta. When we were at our most impressionable, he rocked up with what I would suggest to you is the real seminal car of that era of this type. It's the R129. The Mercedes SL.

Oh my God. You're totally right. Like a boss man with the hard top. You're right, Andrew. You're right.

That has to be on your list.

Do you know the reason it wasn't on my list there? So I love like a tank.

Gorgeous, luxurious, will last forever. Still to this day. Looks immaculate. Looks completely, you know, it's timeless. It hasn't dated. Yes, completely timeless. Hasn't dated at all. Looks as stunning today as it did back then.

Okay, can I. All right, I'm going to say something that you may or not giggle at but the idea behind all of these cars, at least on my list was that I might be able to squeeze either a. My youngest who's now almost 20 months old. So baby seat size. Yeah.

Or in case he'd go in the boot. He'd go in the boot. That wouldn't be fair.

Well, you know, listen, we've done it before so you know this is par for the course.

Drill some holes for air.

So. But the idea. But the way I thought I would better sell it to my wife is. Honey, the car that I own, that's my little baby can now seat four maybe even five people comfortably. 5, 6 sec will do that. The 8 series in pinch. A 928 barely. And an R129.

Oh wait.

Wait for it. Not at all. So I didn't make a list.

I don't think you've ever sat in the back of a 9-8s 4 or a. Or an 850. The back seats are unusable in the Mercedes in the 560 sec.

Yes, it's a four seater. That's a proper four seater entrance.

Yes. There's actually some room in the footwell but there is no leg space whatsoever in the 928. And I've literally been in the back.

Okay. All right. So then we get to the whole. Did you want a convertible or Not. And for me that was a different list. Andrew, if I was going to. I've looked at the R129 but I've also looked at SLCs and stuff like this. I don't know, for me I was like no, no, stick to the coupes because you can kind of manage that list.

Yeah, but the R129 with a hard top feels like. Feels and looks more importantly like a coupe.

It's gorgeous, isn't it Andrew?

It really is stunning. Oh come on.

Oh, it's be okay. I tell you what, I could add that to the list. I accept your proposal. I don't know if you remember. Sorry, just quickly. I don't know if you remember. My older brother owned an R129, an SL500 and it was mag. Yeah, he did and it was as magnificent as you would have expected it. But my God, was it a big heavy lump of a car and my God, did it understeer when pushed? This is of course irrelevant in the context of what I've just said to

you about driven any of these, but I suspect much the same of any of the cars on that list. As you said, you know, this is not for driving. This is for sitting in. Yeah, but yes, and looking at once

you've parked it and stroking it and all this kind of good stuff.

Okay, good. So I'm glad. So I've got. I've got the R129 on the list.

Yes, you do.

So, so what happens next? I mean how serious is this? Is this just a. Was this just a Friday morning?

I think what happened, Andrew, is I spent probably two weeks not only thinking it but researching it and discussing it with a bunch of people. And a problem rose, Andrew, an impediment to the cause. It was the following. It was the following. I've already bookended my car collection. Right now I've got a Lexus GS450H which does everything I keep yapping about. I want a big 80s slept so barge to do and it is reliable as all hell. It just passed 100,000km. I stroke it every day, I drive it every day and I adore it. I literally worship the ground I drive on. And somebody said to me, what the fuck are you doing looking at all this old cranky German steel? What's the point? And then Andrew, it got worse. Oh, they brought reality crashing down into this conversation. They said one is an engineer, he said do you know how badly packaged and that 928 is? And I thought what does that mean, why are you telling me this? Why are you pissing on my parade? And he said, eric, every time they need to work on something, they've got to remove entire parts of everything else to get to it. Oh, that's not good. Then somebody said to me, huge BMW fan, he said, buy an 850. The 840 is for the peasants. He said, for the peasants. Literally, I'm quoting him. And then I said, oh, yeah, but, but, but Anderson, you know, what about the electrics? He said, oh, well, they eat themselves. And I said, no, hold on.

What do you.

What do you mean they eat themselves? He said, they literally disintegrate. And I thought, oh, dear. And then he said, it's also one of the most electronically complicated cars you can buy. The only car that people seem to agree is a valid proposition is the 560 sec. Simple V8, minimal electrics and electronics, and built to go a million.

I would have thought pretty much any Mercedes of that era, you could say that off. I mean, those cars, that Mercedes were at their very pinnacle back then.

I, I agree. And, and again, you know, not just the quality, the purity, the simplicity, the elegance, it just does what it's supposed. It looks like, what it is, and not with. Not with some artificial design built in so that you think it's something else. It was just. It just stood alone like a Swiss ball. That 560sec to me is still so beautiful.

So I've spent 20 minutes trying to convince you to put the R129 on the list, but turns out the list is. Is redundant anyway. You've abandoned the plan. The Lotus stays.

I. If there's anything that could ever. Well, you know, the problem is I drove the Lotus at spa, okay? And it was perfect. And what happens, it set my soul on fire again. And I just thought, what are you doing?

Why are you.

Why are you contemplating this? So I know this is going to be a little bit of a letdown, but for the moment, yeah, the Lotus kind of stays, man.

God damn it. This is exactly like back in the 80s and 90s when you didn't like my first girlfriend and you wanted me to leave her and you kept trying to talk me into leaving her. And occasionally I'd go, oh, yeah, okay,

I'm gonna dump her. I'm gonna do it.

You'd be like, yay. And then I'd come back the following day, we got back together.

Listen, at least you tried, Andrew, you know, what you said that's relevant here is I think the only way to test what you love and what you think you know is to buy is by considering change. And if the change sits better than what you currently have then you've got a reason to leave. You got a reason to go. But I. What happened is I just. Somebody said to me you have the Lexus and you have the Lotus. What are you pissing around for? You're intellectually masturbating here. I don't know, I tried man. Two weeks of it and I was got tired at the end.

Well two, two weeks of masturbation is for the best of us.

Don't put yourself down even to us professionals, Andrew.

Well, on that crushing disappointment, it's time to end the episode.

Oh dear.

Join us next time where I'll still be disappointed and Eric will probably still be masturbating.

Let some things never change buddy. Take care my friend.

Bye bye bye Sam.