Harpist Alexandra Chang on Collaboration, Improvisation and Why She Loves the Harp - PHH 271

What if playing the harp felt easier the way you thought it would be? Not because you practiced more, but because you finally understood what was getting in your way. I'm Anne Sullivan, and welcome to Practicing Harp Happiness. Here we tackle the real challenges harpists struggle with: the sticky passages, the tricky fingerings, prepping for performance, and all the ingredients that go into making music sound the way you want it to. I've studied with world-class harpists, taught at a top conservatory for 20 years, and I love playing the harp. But what I love just as much is breaking down the real challenges harpists face and turning them into clear step-by-step solutions, the same ones I teach my students and use myself. So if you're ready to play the music you love with more confidence, clarity, and joy, you're in the right place. So let's get started. Welcome to the show. Okay, I talk about harp happiness a lot.

Really a lot.

That's because playing the harp has always brought me happiness. Now sure, playing the harp is hard work sometimes, and I've had my share of frustration too, But for me, the challenges are outweighed by the joy every time. It's the joy that keeps me going, and I hope that your own harp happiness sustains and inspires you too. I mention this right now because I have a special guest on today's show, and she positively radiates harp happiness. Her name is Alexandra Chang, and if you haven't heard of her already, Just listening to her talk about her love of music and the harp is going to make you fall in love with her. Alex is an electric acoustic harpist and composer, and as you will hear, much of her performing is collaborative improvisation, particularly with the Rock City Falls Trio, a cross-genre ensemble. She recently completed a jazz and sonic music residency at the Banff Centre for Arts and Creativity for performance and composition and premiered the work "A Shared Woven Melody" at that concert as part of their 2024 Gather Listen Hear Summer Arts Festival. She was awarded the 2025 Art Connects artist grant. Art Connects is supported in part by the National Endowment for the Arts and New York State. She teaches at Rutgers University as an associate professor of practice at the Arts, Culture, and Media Department. And she's also the co-director of Improv Spaces and runs the Improv Spaces Music Festival, which is based in upstate New York, with creative partner percussionist Adam Foreman. But before I play our conversation for you, I want to preview 3 things she mentions that give a more complete picture of her musicianship than just the raw facts from her bio. First, she practices the pedal harp every day. Second, she always has music by Bach on her music stand. And third, she's only been playing the harp for 6 years. Yep, I couldn't believe it either. Now, I will play a clip from one of the selections on her album at the end of our conversation, but I want you to hear from her first. So without any more delay, Here is my conversation with harpist Alexandra Chang.

Welcome, Alex! I am so excited to talk to you because this is something I don't do on the podcast a whole lot. As my listeners know, it's a lot of me talking, and I'm so excited to be able to talk to somebody else, and especially to somebody doing things as exciting as the things that you're doing. But first, tell us a little bit about the album Abandon, which is which just was released.

Yes, I'm so excited about it because it's my first solo album. So I learned a lot going through making it. But the album itself is called Abandon because it's about— it's a love story and it goes through the landscape of love, which is, you know, the abandonment, like the wild abandon of love, but then also like the loneliness of love. So it's dual-sided in terms of that term. But For me, it's not just about like the up and down, but really kind of traveling through. And so the album itself mimics improvisation because I have a theme or a few themes that kind of go in and out. So it's played like in different versions, but it wants to kind of like meander, go backwards and come back forward. And so it plays around with the form of improvisation, but then also like our lived lives.

Well, you know, I really enjoyed listening to the tracks from the album, and I listened to it beginning to end, and I did get the sort of— and this is a weird term to apply to something that's so improvisational— but that sort of through-composed idea, the idea that I was on a journey and exploring different things, and it wasn't a journey that took me back to where I started. You know, that was sort of the sense that I got listening to it, and I was really intrigued by that. So how did you come to the idea for an album like this?

I guess it's just, you know, what comes out of you. Well, things came out for different reasons. For example, "Rain" was actually a third movement of a larger water suite, which I do a lot of work in relation to climate change and mostly with my trio, the Rock City Falls Trio. And so we pair a lot with different artists, and it's interdisciplinary. So it's like projection collage, people sampling music or live painting. And so this was a specific one with Mike Ming, Mike Miyahara, he's known as Mike Ming. And so he was a graffiti artist as well, and he's a surfer, but he has this close relationship to water. But we were really thinking about like the different relationships we have to water, some like fearful, some like that we have to protect it. And rain was kind of like a mix of many different emotions and ideas of water because we were going through flooding in our area in upstate New York and elsewhere in the US and elsewhere. But like thinking about those kind of anxieties that we have, just like underlining things. But then also for me, for this particular album, taking it and thinking about it in terms of relations and like your emotional feeling in terms of rain, which could also vary in different ways. So that's how, for example, like "Rain" came about and the way that it changes throughout the album. But other songs really just came out because of like thinking about trajectories of love and relationships with people, like long-term relationships and how they change and shift, how they can become bittersweet, but then also what you learn coming out of it. So hopefully, like, it feels not like devastating at the end. It's about— there's a song called "Leaving," but it's not about like Oh, I'm being left, but it's more like leaving and transitioning out of a stage in your life.

Yeah, no, I didn't feel like any of the— of your music was causing me anxiety or grief. I didn't feel like any of that. It was really lovely to listen to. But I have to confess, I was— and I am very intrigued by the way you got to the place you are now. You always make reference to your classical training, but that's not something that you emphasize because it's not the direction that your music has taken you. And I'm sort of— I'm very interested, and I think other people will be too, in how you got from, yeah, I'm taking harp lessons, to where you are now.

I guess it's like a mix of different things. I mean, I just have to say also a shout out to my teacher, Elizabeth Huntley, because she really, you know, she gave me the gift of learning how to play the harp. And like was very open when I would tell her about things like, "Oh, I'm doing improv." She's like, "Great!" You know? So like, having like somebody like that was amazing. But also, you know, I think the moment that I really started improv-ing was when I got a small harp because I, you know, really love playing harp, right? Like all of us. And so I travel a lot back and forth. Like, I live both in upstate New York as well as in Newark because I teach at Rutgers. And so I go back and forth so much that I always have to have a harp. And it's hard to bring a harp that's large. So I got one of those smaller 26-string— actually a harpsicle harp, which a lot of people use, and they're not very expensive and they're really accessible. But it's electrified. And I was like, "Ooh, I wonder if I could plug this into like guitar pedals." And then once I did that, it was like endless. It was like, "Oh my God." And that's when I started improv. It just like lent itself to that, just experimenting with sounds. And I was playing at a church and they let me do improv, which was great because, you know, when you're doing the offering thing and it cuts off at a certain time, but I could just improv and stop whenever I needed to during those things. For the church harpists out there. And they were really open about that. Like, I was like, it's great. It sounds like astral, you know, electric. But they actually really liked it. So I kind of started improvising in the church and then I paired off with a performance artist and then just actually started— actually, 4 months later, I found the percussionist. We met at Saratoga Arts where I play a lot, and we just started playing from there as like a duo and then a trio. But yeah, it just, it kind of like really started because of the freedom of being able to experiment, I think, with the electric harp. And then also I have this deep love of jazz that goes like since I was a kid because like my dad was a swinger, like he did swing dancing. So he has this huge LP collection and he's like, you know, really careful about his hi-fi setup. And like, I always wondered why our sound system always sounded better like from the '90s than like presently. I'm like, how can that be? That's old technology. But like, you know, he really had his system, like the Onkyo system with like Fisher speakers and stuff. And JVC. It was, it was just a really good setup.

Well, isn't that funny? But, but sound is so important, isn't it? I mean, we think about it with our instrument, but yet, you know, the electronic sound and the different ways in which we hear sound also equally important.

Yeah, definitely. And like that, I know, like it kind of segues into the idea of improvisation because Listening is so important for it. And just like, I think that's like something that, you know, struck me was just like how much you have to like pay attention to others and what's around you for improvisation to like feel it and know when you come in or where you have to pull back or, yes, like feeling the room and also the people you're playing with.

I love that. And I wanted dig into the whole idea of improv and collaboration. But I'm wondering if, thinking about my own students who are less than confident about starting to improvise, and I'm thinking that improvisation for me comes down to one question, and you just actually said that same thing, which is— I just made a note here while we were talking, and the question is, what if? You know, well, what if you plugged in your harp to, you know, to guitar pedals, right? And I think improvisation is a what if question, and it requires you to be free enough to experiment without self-criticism. And, and if you're going to start improv from that, then the world becomes open. But you just were talking about improving in collaboration, and that's a different level, isn't it? Could you talk to that a little bit?

Sure. I, yeah, I think it's like interrelated too, because like when I'm collaborating, we're also experimenting a lot of the time. And so I think with collaborating, like for me, I really opened up during collaboration because you're working with people and hopefully like people that are really great and that inspire you. So it'll push you to go somewhere else. Like I know my percussionist that I play with a lot is Adam Foreman, and he's just really good. But when he plays something, like, I'll play something I never dreamt that I would play before because he's playing a certain thing in a certain way. So I think the collaborative aspect definitely pushes you, and you hear things that you've never heard before, even experienced before. But then also, like, with the ensemble, I also co-organize with Adam this larger— a nonprofit organization, and we have this, like, larger ensemble there called Improv Space's ensemble, and it has all sorts of instrumentation, like, and most people play like 3 or 4 different instruments, so we never know what's going to happen. But we do different things, like we'll test things out. Maybe somebody has a theme for improvisation they want to test out, or a composition for improvisation, or, you know, it might be open, or we'll think about something like, let's think about silence or restraint, because that's really hard when you're— when you love to play, right? Lots of notes. Or for example, like different ways to conduct for improvisation. So there's ways that we're like testing things out, like thinking about how we do improvisation. And then I think the space is very open and all the people are very open too. And that's really important. And they respect each other in terms of like people, but also playing, which is important. So I think it's like a mix of different things. And like, if you're nervous about going to an improv with many people, like, you could just improv with one of your friends first, right? Like, and, you know, just test it out. And I'm always really like, as somebody that loves improvisation, I love it when somebody tries it the first time because like usually you see that feeling of freedom that they have and it's exciting. I've had students just say like, "Oh, I never did this before, and I didn't know that, you know, it could be so like easy for me to do this," you know. So you should give it a go and, and not be afraid. And I know it's easy to say that, and it's harder to do it. And maybe it's harder if you're doing a performance or something and you're going up to an open mic kind of situation, which there's like a jam. But people are open, and I think You know, if you're trained classically, I think it's a real bonus because like there's that intensity of training, but then it becomes like part of you. So no matter where you're going into something, like you have it in your fingers, it's like memorized in your, in your body. So I think that's how like sometimes, I mean, I don't— people say like, oh, how do you improvise? It just comes out like I know there are people say like, do this progression or whatever, and I could say it afterwards, but like when I'm playing it, I'm not going like, oh, I want to do a 1-4-5 or whatever. You know, it just kind of comes out. So I think it's from the practice of training, hearing things and things like that.

I totally agree with you. And where I try to help my own students with this is to say, first of all, there's nothing wrong. I mean, improvisation, there is no wrong. You might find ideas, especially as you're collaborating, and you can tell me if this is your experience, that work better or don't work quite so well. You might think, you know, oh well, gosh, that wasn't quite where I meant to go. But the thing is that your fingers, because of your training, your fingers have a vocabulary. And if you just let them do what they know how to do, that's a great place to start, wouldn't you say?

Oh, absolutely. Like, I think that's definitely true. And then also just like, if you're listening to music too, or you, you know, like a repertoire of music, like you have like sounds in your head. So like, uh, so that really helps too. And then I think like, um, in terms of like, oh, I played the wrong note. I mean, there is of course that whole You know, in jazz, like the whole Miles Davis, like you never can like make a mistake. But then also like thinking about how you can make something intentional, like seemingly intentional, like when you go for another note, like maybe repeat it or like maybe there's like you do like a half step down, you didn't want to do that, but then go somewhere else and do a half step down and then make it a pattern or something. So there's ways in which you might be able to like incorporate it or play off of that, and maybe that change actually made your— whatever you were doing more interesting than it would have been before. So you never know.

Yeah, and you're really talking about sort of two different levels, because at the first level you're just letting stuff come out. And you made the point, which I think is so important, a second ago when you said this isn't about planning— I'm going to play the I chord, the IV chord, the V— this is about letting that come out. You may be able to analyze it later if, if that was what you wanted to do. But it's not about planning it that way. That's not the whole soul of improvisation, and it's not where the freedom lies, right? So that's kind of one level, but I think there's another level too that is just giving yourself permission to just play the what-if game and just try it.

Yeah, and it's I love it because I go in there, I don't know what I'm going to be playing. It's kind of fun and it makes it exciting. Like, you know, I guess for like more classical players, like there's all the memorization, there's like the nerve-wracking, I can't mess up, like these are the notes I have to play. And you don't have that. So you go in there and it's fun and exciting in that kind of way, if you think about it. You know, you don't know what's going to happen and it's going to be a good time.

And it is a skill that you do better with the more you do it, right? Your first, you know, your improvisations can be basic to start out. And then the more you do it, the more you find that you can experiment and go places you hadn't even imagined.

Yeah. Like, you make me also think about the looping pedal, which you can just play with yourself. So you could do it at home and it's so fun and it sounds great too. So yeah, you could practice at home by yourself or actually like I run records, you know, you can play with like the most amazing quartets, but you know, and then you just play with them like they make you want to play. So you just play with your recording.

Yeah. That, and who would have thought that that was practice, right? And yet it is. It's just so much fun. So you mentioned that Abandon is your first solo album. Talk about how different that experience was than the recordings you've done before.

I think like, um, one thing was that, you know, like I've done like pieces before, or like it's been a performance that it's recorded, um, but this was like very intentional. And also like I've been playing these pieces like just at random gigs, you know, like I'll be somewhere and I'll play this song and I'm just like, you know, I want to collect them all together. And I actually want to really record them. And also for some of them, like I want to write it out a little bit more because I also like, I compose themes and sometimes like themes that are meant specifically for improvisation. So it might be like you play through and then you come back and you take it apart and So I think I wanted to put it all together and be like, these are the things I've been playing for these couple of years. But I also, you know, really wanted to have like, you know, an actual like recording that was like really, really high quality. I mean, which sounds like, oh, okay, whatever. I mean, there's lots of ways to record. You know, performances and that sort of thing. But I really wanted to be in the studio and work specifically with the mixer engineer that I had, Michael Gorlin. I had met him on an artist residency when I was at Banff, and he had recorded this like small ensemble piece that I had done there. And it was just, it sounded so different. And then he was able to do some like level changes that I wanted. And I was just like, oh, I love working with this person. I really want to do an album with him specifically. And so He happened to move to New York, like, right after. So I was so lucky. And so, and then he came upstate. So he met the folks upstate that I play with, which was great. And then we actually got these out in 3 days. So I did 2 albums in 3 days, and it was like 6 hours a day playing straight, having lunch in between, going out for some ice cream. But like, really, it was also a heat wave. So it was like 96 degrees out. We're supposed to record in a in one of the parts in a church because I wanted the resonance of that church. But they didn't have air conditioning. They're like, "We suggest you do not come in here." So we ended up actually recording in like this barn where we work a lot with the trio and some of my recording, but then also in my own living room, which I have this like secret plan that I'd love to make it into a salon.

Ooh.

So we can have like more musicians. So after recording, the engineer said actually the space was really good for sound. Made me excited.

Yeah, I can understand that.

So I guess it came about like through this amazing person that I could work with, having like a set of days that I knew I had these hours and so I was going to like really use those hours well and plan them out and have the people come in that needed to come in. So that we'd have something coming out.

Yeah, well, what an exciting project. I know that there's something that is very, um, fulfilling about doing a solo album and something particularly satisfying about doing one that is you and your music. And, and it's so personal. Not that this compares with your album because it's a whole different thing, but I did a solo album myself of my own arrangements of Christmas music, and they're pretty, you know, intense arrangements, a lot of them, and they're hard to play. And, you know, it's always great when you arrange something that you have trouble playing yourself. However, I didn't know when I started it that it was going to feel so, so much like me that I almost felt a little bit shy or vulnerable about it. And it's very different, isn't it, when it's all you?

You're right. I mean, I think both for the solo and the trio albums, it was very much wanting people to hear my sound because like, like, I guess I'm not— I never knew where I belonged. I would ask people like mentors, like, what is my sound? What is this? Is this indie? Is this like, is it classical? Is it jazz? What is it? Um, they're like, I don't know, it's whatever you're playing at the time, kind of, because like it shifts and changes a bit. Um, and also it's It's a hybrid of all of them. So yeah, it's what I sound like. And with the trio too, like, we do a lot of open improv in that one. I think we have one that I had composed a theme for, and the rest is open improv. But it's very much our sound and the different types of things that we do. And so we wanted to show that range of sound that we do make. So yeah.

Tell me a little bit more about your trio, because I know you have some— cool stuff coming up with the trio too.

That's right. So we do have an album coming out also with Ajur Rupa Records, which was fantastic actually. I just want to mention them a bit because for artists, they let you keep your masters. That's a huge thing. I know, right? That was like the question I asked. I was like, what about the masters? And they're run by artists themselves, musicians themselves, so they know all the gamut of the things that you run into. So it's just like, it was been It's been wonderful working with them, and they're really all about like, whatever you want to put out for your sound, that's what we're going to do, right? Like, so you have all this artistic control too. And so for Signal, which is the, the album that the trio is doing, the Rock City Falls Trio, I'm working with Adam Foreman, who I mentioned before, the percussionist, and also Jason Handren, who is amazing on the bass. He does amazing kind of extended technique on the bass. And It's interesting that we all kind of met in, you know, me and Adam I had mentioned, but then with Jason when we were talking to him, I was like, "Well, this is what we do.

We do improv with indie rock mixed with jazz and it's astral." He's like, "That's what I do." You're thinking, "Wait a second, how can there be somebody else that does this weird thing I can't even describe?" Right?

And then we played the first time, it was like, that's it. And then we've been playing for a while now. And then this really also came out from like, we should be putting out our sound like that we have been creating mostly for live performance. Like we do concert live performance, but we hadn't put out like an album yet. So, so this was really important for us also to get our sound together, but also really again feeling that range of sound. Like we want it because we do different types of things that are more experimental, a little more groove-oriented, or also working with like composed elements. So kind of that whole range.

Well, it's so exciting to think that, you know, you've got, you've got collaborators who work with you in the same, same way. And do you find often when you start something, especially you talked about open improv, which I want to explain in case people don't know. That's like, you're not really starting with a theme. You're not starting with an idea. You're just kind of diving in and doing it, right? And so to have all three of you essentially composing, I hate to put that word in there. I just didn't have another one right now, but creating this thing as it happens. I mean, that's a pretty amazing thing to be part of.

Yeah, I think like when it's a really, really good improv, like after you finish, you're like, yeah, like you really feel it and it's very exciting. And you know, when it's happening, I mean, it's— I just want to encourage people to try it because it's— I just feel not— I mean, it's a lot of fun, but it's also like You can put in like your emotions, your thoughts, like everything can go in there. And I think it's like an interesting, like an experience in itself. Like it's like being very, very present, you know, which you don't get a lot of times in your life to be able to be like that. And so like there's that openness, the presence, and like the emotion, the feeling. I mean, it's, it's a really intense experience, and I hope that people will give it a go.

Yeah, no, I appreciate the way you talked about that because the presence and the focus, I think, is such a part of it. And when we're working so hard at replicating what's printed on a page, that's a different kind of focus, and it's certainly intense, and it certainly takes a lot of being in the moment to keep driving the flow where you know it needs to go. But all the extra sensory awareness, I think, that comes into play when somebody else is doing something that they hadn't thought of a second ago, let alone you predicting, and to be able to react to that, um, it's, it's a, it's a different kind of, uh, of awareness.

And I like to think of it as like a conversation too, in a way, because like they're coming with something and then that makes you want to come back with something. And so again, it's like the listening, but then it's the back and forth, knowing when you pull out a little bit and not overplay, and just like appreciating what the other person's doing too. That makes it really special. And it's also the audience, I think. Like, it's like the whole surroundings is like changing the way that you're going to play something, because I'm going to— I'm never going to play something the same twice, obviously. But then also just the feeling that you get when you're in a specific space, um, that, that's something as well too.

Yeah, and it's— you're right to bring the audience into it because they are definitely a factor. But tell me, describe for somebody who's never done this kind of thing, describe what a rehearsal might be like, because obviously you're not just making it up for the first time, although that sometimes does happen too, I'm sure, but on the stage in front of people. But, you know, it's like, well, we have this performance we're going to be doing. We need to have an idea of what we're doing. So what is a rehearsal like?

Okay, so like, I guess we're going to have a performance coming up.

There you go.

And also we're going to be at— I'm excited— like a couple of festivals in the fall. So like, what we're gonna do is like, like, we will probably just warm up. We might do an open improv to like warm up, um, and then be like, oh, what do you want to start with? And I'll be like, oh, rain. And so like, we know generally like the theme, it's definitely Inside Me, um, and like with the trio, I play it differently. I mean, we've played it differently with you know, if it's just Adam or if it's just me or whatever. But we know we like to start off with the bass. I love the way Jason plays. So like, whenever it's possible, like, to give like Adam or Jason like a solo start, I just— it's, it's lucky for me to be able to listen to it. So I'm like, I'm gonna listen to it. So, um, so Jason actually starts that off, and it's like, love it. Um, and then, um, Adam comes in. I know I'm gonna come in last for that one, or Or I might come in with Adam or something, but like Jason starts and like, and that's kind of our plan. Jason's starting and then the feel happens because like he sets the feel and then you kind of come in. And then maybe we'll be like, oh, we should do an open one that's like this other, maybe this other one that had like more of a groove before. And then maybe Adam starts. I like it. And then he'll start and we'll be like, yeah. And then, and then we kind of go into it, and then we go into the groove that we know we kind of want to go into. Um, but sometimes, like, if it's a, a larger project that takes several months to create, um, that'll be conversations about, like, why are we even playing this? Um, what is it going to be a theme about? Um, those projects are more elaborate, and sometimes we're collaborating with people, and sometimes we're workshopping it with audiences to input into it as well. Um, so at those times, like, sometimes I'll come up with themes for the different parts, or if there's different parts, or sometimes like we'll do a theme and then like an open and then a theme. It depends. It's like agreements that are made with the collaborators, um, and how you're going to play it. Um, and sometimes the theme, like, I play it through or we all play it through, and then we break it apart, um, and then it comes back. Or, you know, we kind of make like agreements and what we're gonna do as a sketch. It's like a rough sketch of what's gonna happen. Maybe we're like, then we know it'll get intense and then it'll fade, or it'll— we'll just like stop playing, or, you know, and then we'll come back and then it fades. So it's not like written out, but like we have an idea, like a sketch and a roadmap of like how generally it'll happen. And it might not happen like that because as you're doing it and you're in it, like it becomes what it comes, and it's better that way.

So yeah, well, and sometimes I— you can— I've had this even in, you know, regular traditional, like, from the page kind of playing in a group, where all of a sudden you can sense that one person has an idea that's different from what you usually did, and you know that everybody else is picking up on it, and it's going to be okay to try it that way. And that's where the beauty of live performance happens, whether it's, you know, in its own little way, that's an improv too, right? It's like, oh wait, we're going to try this. What if we did it this way? And doing it unrehearsed in front of an audience is a little bit like, you know, tightrope without a net thing, but it's exhilarating when you try it and when it works.

Definitely.

Yeah. So I'm going to ask you this because this is one of the things that I think it fascinates us all as harpists. So what brought you to the harp to start with? What's your harp story?

Yeah, my harp story is like, well, I played the piano for the longest time and then it was COVID. So it wasn't long ago that I learned the harp. So it was COVID and I heard over the internet, the, on like streaming, I think it was Facebook streaming. I heard a harpist from like the West Coast. Anne Sullivan, and like she had been playing for hospitals, but because she couldn't actually go to the hospital, the hospital streamed her and was like, oh, let's just open it up to everyone. Yeah. So, so I was listening to, I was like, oh, what is this sound? I was like, I want to make this sound. And so I was looking up like I wanted, so I bought a harp. Like I was moving at the same time and it was like really snowy and it was like 3 feet of snow when we moved, and the harp met us there. But I remember I bought it from— in California, and it like flew to me in New York. And then— but it was like a small— it was like a 36-string harp. But then I started playing, I was like, like immediately I was like, oh, I get this. Like, it's like— because coming from piano, it was just like, yes. And like, immediately I was like playing with it. But then I was talking to some, because I live near Skidmore, some Skidmore professors, and they were like, well, you know, like, I think we were talking about pentatonic scales because that's like a thing, right?

Right, right.

And then they're like, you know, there's this amazing professor. And that's how I met Elizabeth Huntley. And then we immediately, like, I started playing with her and like, she's so generous and like, you know, and I started playing the big, big harp, the big, big harp. Like the minute I'm like, I plucked the first string, it was just like that sound, sound like, you know, and fell in love with it immediately. And it was just like practicing for hours a day type of thing until my hands hurt. And she's like, don't practice that much, which is probably not what a teacher tells people usually.

Not usually, but good teachers like Elizabeth are going to watch out for you and make sure that you can play for your lifetime, not just for Yeah, exactly.

And she's like, oh, and because I hurt my hand because I played too much, like, one day. She's like, never play more than like 8 hours. But then, um, I think like she really, like, I, I don't know, like the, the way that she taught me, um, was like she understood that I was learning in a different way because I had already had like piano and like then I was going somewhere else. And so like she taught me in a certain way that allowed me kind of a freedom of learning that made it, I guess, quicker for me to get to where I was going to go, and which was very open. And like, I'd bring her stuff and she'd be like, you should not be learning this yet. I'm like, but I think I kind of know how to play it. And then she'd be like, I'll show you really how you're going to play it. Right? Right.

Well, it's true that I know Somebody with a lot of musical background, and particularly piano background, but I think you've got a lot of musical background, you come to the harp for the first time, your musical ability is like at a 10 and your technical ability is like at a 0. And so to get your technique up to the level so that you can play the music you want to play is really tough. And you clearly took the intensity route. It's like, okay, I'm just gonna play and play and play until my technique will allow me to do what I want to do?

I think it was like, I want to learn that song. Exactly. I want to finish that song. And my poor family, you know, listening to my son, just like, he's got all these songs memorized.

So what was the first big piece that you really wanted to do that pushed you that hard?

Yeah, it was the Toccata and Fugue, like the Bach Toccata and Fugue. I really wanted to play it. And I brought it in like one month in. She was like, you should not be playing this right now.

No, that's right.

But I think Bach, I love Bach. Well, who doesn't?

Right.

So I was trying to play the Goldberg Variations, but from the Urtag version. And she's like, you know, people have changed this for the harp already. Yeah, but I want to put in the fingering. She's like, you crazy. But then, like, here's the actual harp version, you know? But I think, like, um, learning Bach, just being obsessed with Bach also helped a lot with technique.

Oh, it would for sure.

Yeah. And, like, and I still, like, I play the same songs over and over, and my son is like, when are you gonna finish that? And I'm like, never.

You don't finish. Never gonna finish.

Never gonna play it the way I really want to play it. But also, you know, like, and every time I play it, it's like It's like my finger exercise, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

So I look at that. So, so it's not like I don't, um, play like written music. I play it so much, actually. That's what I practice. And then I go out— I don't really practice my improv. Like, I sort of do sometimes when I get really tired. I'm like, I'm just gonna do improv now. But like, when I'm practicing, it's most actually the written music.

Yeah, well, you mentioned this before though, it's the, it's the music that we hear and that we learn and that we study that gives us the, the, the, the material and the tools that we need to be able to improv. I mean, if, if we were just in a musical vacuum, our improv would be very different. But to have the technique, to have the background, to have the, the musical vocabulary, to be able to you know, to give our minds and our fingers the possibilities in there. That's what I think is really important.

Yeah, no, definitely. Yeah, always on my standerspah. But like, also like then, you know, I do find improv as a release. So I often end with like doing improv or like composing stuff or that's kind of my release. And like, just for daily living, that's my release too. When I like, I'll play with some folks, you know, at the end of the week, and it'll just be like—

Did you do improv on the piano?

I didn't. It was interesting because now I do. So it was like, after the harp, I was like, hmm. And then, and I was composing on the harp, and then now I do both the piano and the harp. So like, and I do piano, then I bring it to the harp. I don't really like compose specifically for the piano.

You found your voice. That's it. You just found exactly the way you needed to have your voice heard in the world.

I just love the harp. I think it's such a special sound and like being able to have electronics on it, like it just expands the vocabulary and possibility for it. But I love to pluck things. I don't know if it's the same with you, but I'm like, I love the feel of like moving my fingers on the string. Like, it just like makes me happy. And like, I'm like, well, there's, there's so much you can do.

There's this infinite variety of ways you can put your finger on the string and the way you can pull the string and how you connect with it and, and what comes out. And it's, um, you know, it's a feast for the imagination, I think. You know, you just get to get in there and see what comes out.

Yeah, and there's that feeling of the finger on the strings, like, and what comes out. It's so interesting, just that in itself. I don't know, I just love that when you're doing that, suddenly the sound of these different types of sounds emerges. It's from your head to your hands to the strings and then the sound. Yeah, I just love it.

It's a great way of putting it. So, well, I— this has been fabulous, but I do need to get to some of the really important things. So, um, I, I do have the link to your website so that people can find out more about you and what's going on. But tell us where they, where they should go to really find out more about your music and about your performances coming up, particularly with the Rock City Trio, because I know you've got some festival stuff coming up very soon.

Oh great, yes, I'm excited about it. We're going to be part of the Impact Topaz Festival, uh, with Improv Spaces and of course, um, Rock City Falls Trio. But we're also able to invite Sundogs, which is a local act here as well, to be part of that. So we're really excited. And then also the next day, we kind of like partnered with them and also the Troy Savings Bank Music Hall, which is this lovely hall with great sound. And so we're going to take over the hall and their new Capital Region, uh, music hub that they built It's like this new hub with a new stage too. So there'll be two stages, and we'll have the Improv Spaces Music Festival, which is the nonprofit that I work on with Adam. So that'll be really exciting. So we'll be playing with that too, with Carlin Ma, who is a photographer, videographer. But again, that piece is going to be really about, you know, the Earth and thinking about climate change and different things that are happening. But if you want to learn more about what's gonna happen Um, you can go to my website, which is alexchangmusic.com, um, and I, I put things on there. Or you could go to my Instagram, Alexa Chang 2000. And also Rock City Falls Trio has an Instagram as well.

So I will put all those links— yeah, we'll put all those links in the show notes so that everybody can find them and can find you easily. And particularly now that you have your just finally released album Abandoned, and they can get to that. So exciting! Congratulations! I think it's a wonderful thing.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, well, if you could just think about one piece of advice that— I mean, you've given so many pieces of advice already about improv, but what would you say to somebody who's feeling inspired by the information you've shared today and they want to just take that next step? What, what would you tell them?

Well, I would tell them that they should just go out and ask somebody, like if they meet a musician that they like the sound of and like they get along with, you just ask them if you want to jam. I do that all the time. We should jam. And then they're like, yes. And then you do it and it's great. And you might find your partner, your creative partner for the next period of your life that way too. So yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's great advice. I know that there are going to be a lot of people are saying, well, what do you mean just jam? But that's a conversation for another day. And I think we We kind of got into that today a little bit too, so I think that's fine. But you know, it's just about playing what you've already got inside you.

That's right.

So yeah, well, this has been so great. It's been terrific to chat with you. So thank you so much for agreeing to talk with me today, and we'll put all those links in the show notes so everybody can find your music. And I'm excited for them to give Abandon a listen.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, wasn't that an amazing conversation? And wasn't I right that she just radiates harp happiness? Everything about her just speaks to harp happiness, and I love that. Now, I have included all the links you need to find out more about Alex and her music and where she's playing. You'll find them in the show notes for today's episode, so you can look for her website, then a link directly to the music that she has put out there, including this abandoned CD. That's her Bandcamp link, and then a couple of links to festivals where Alex is going to be playing with the Rock City Falls Trio. Both of those are in early September, so, and in upstate New York, so you have time to think about them and do what you like. But do check out her music, check out her website, and, uh, and I hope that you were as inspired as I was by her love of the harp and just the way she just embraced everything that she could about our favorite instrument. So for me, that was the most fun part of our conversation, just being able to share the, the harp happiness with her. So that's really, really fun. Now, I did promise to share one of the selections from her CD with you, and that's what I'm going to leave you with today. So let me, before I play that, remind you about what we have coming up next week on the podcast something much lighter. I'm going to be sharing some suggestions for your summer reading list. So that's on next week's podcast, and I think you'll enjoy that. Just some, some interesting books that might give you some more inspiration for the harp or for music or all different kinds of things. So summer reading list on next week's podcast. And of course In the meantime, until I talk to you then, remember that every day is a day you can add more harp happiness to the universe, to your world, and to your spirit. And all you have to do is play. So thanks so much for listening. And now I'd like you to stick around and listen to the track that I asked Alex to recommend from Abandon. And you will have heard her reference this track any number of times in our interview. This is Rain. So this is Alex Chang playing Rain from her Abandon CD.