Meet the Composer: Louis Anthony deLise - PHH 266

What if playing the harp felt easier the way you thought it would be? Not because you practiced more, but because you finally understood what was getting in your way. I'm Anne Sullivan, and welcome to Practicing Harp Happiness. Here we tackle the real challenges harpists struggle with: the sticky passages, the tricky fingerings, prepping for performance, and all the ingredients that go into making music sound the way you want it to. I've studied with world-class harpists, taught at a top conservatory for 20 years, and I love playing the harp. But what I love just as much is breaking down the real challenges harpists face and turning them into clear step-by-step solutions. The same ones I teach my students and use myself. So if you're ready to play the music you love with more confidence, clarity, and joy, you're in the right place. So let's get started.

Welcome to the show.

I don't know if you've ever had this experience, but there's something that happens when you realize that you have to shift your understanding of someone. It's a little unsettling, as if that person belonged in one little box in your mind and now you find out it's in the wrong box all along, and in fact, they don't really belong in a box at all. Your appreciation of that person takes on new meaning and your friendship finds a new level. I found that kind of new level with my good friend and esteemed colleague, Dr. Louis Anthony DeLeese, who is my guest on today's show. Louis and I became acquainted because we were both part of the freelance musical circles in Philadelphia, where I knew him as a percussionist. I didn't discover that his real métier was composing until much more recently, and not only has that deepened our friendship, but it has brought a lot of new and wonderful music into my life, for which I am very grateful. Louis is one of my collaborators on the Chrysalis Music Workshop event for flutists, harpists, and composers that is happening this September in New Jersey. So I thought this was the perfect moment to introduce him and his music to you, and as you listen to conversation, I particularly want you to listen for the words that he uses as he describes composing and composers and musicians—words like adventure, experiment, game, and heart. You have heard me use these kinds of words often, so I know you'll understand why I value my work and my collaboration with him so highly. And before we get started, I thought I'd play just a little snippet of one of his compositions for flute and harp. This is the title track, a portion of the title track from the album To Dance With You. So this is all music by Louis Anthony DeLeese, and I recorded this with the flutist John McMurtry. So this is To Dance With You. That was a little bit of "To Dance with You," and now on to my conversation with Louis-Anthony Dalize. Louis, welcome!

Thank you so much for agreeing to talk to me. As I was mentioning just a moment ago in the introduction, it's such a pleasure for me to talk to you. I'm used to talking to you as a friend, but to get to speak with you as a person talking to a composer and just sort of explore a little bit more of your professional life here together on the podcast. I'm excited to do that, so thank you so much.

Well, thank you, Anne. Thank you for inviting me. I'm excited to speak with you on this professional level too.

It's nice not to be just saying, "Hey, Anne, is this playable?" Oh yeah, well, and that does bring up a really important topic and one that is a heavy one for a lot of harpists because, as you can imagine, perhaps more than other instrumentalists, I don't know, we get so many pieces of music put in front of us by composers who haven't written for harp before. Now, of course, you're experienced at writing for harp, but I have gotten so many, you know, fledgling composers with their first harp composition when I have to say, "You know, I can't do that," and trying to explain the harp sensibility is is a little bit difficult, right?

Well, you know, there are obvious things, you know, the 47 strings and, and, and, uh, all that stuff, uh, you know, but, you know, lots of people don't remember that there are only 4 fingers on each hand, uh, involved in this, uh, harp business. And I think it's, you know, there's a real basic issue. The, the basic issue probably is that The music for harp in a general way looks a lot like piano music. There are lots of people starting out just think, oh well, it's, you know, you're just like you're writing for piano. But no, it's not. So, you know, that's, that's it. And, and having someone like you, a great player, uh, say, well, you know what, this isn't going to work exactly, you know, because I only have these 8 fingers to use and whatever. Yeah, and too many pedal changes. Pedal changes are probably, probably the biggest bugaboo, you know, for somebody who doesn't play the instrument.

Oh, trust me, they're a bugaboo for people who do as well. They're, they're always the consideration. Just, it's, it's, you know, another dimension to have to work around. It's tough.

It real— it really is. It really is.

And it's an amazing thing to watch you work, and sometimes it works better than others, I must say. But, um, You know, I always appreciate from— as a performer, I appreciate being able to work with a composer and say, I kind of get where you're going, but can we get there a different way? And dealing with the enharmonics, the being able and sometimes needing to rewrite notes, you know, okay, I know that looks like a C natural, but if I can play it as a B sharp, it's going to work so much better, or the other way around. And of course, Then there's the lever harp thing, because you and I have done a lot together working to make some of the pieces that you've written for harp playable on lever harp, and that's a completely different dimension too. Right, right.

And, and for me, as a theory guy, as a harmony guy, you know, I spell things the way I'm thinking about them. So, you know, a G chord with a flatted 9th has an A-flat in it, but for you it might— that's a bad example probably, but for you, maybe that A-flat wants to be a G-sharp, and it doesn't compute with me to write it as a G-sharp because it's not, it's an A-flat. You know, it's a whole different—

Yeah. Well, and I think that as harpists, we always have two levels of thought about it. One is that if we see it the way it's supposed to be. You know, to use your example, which as you said isn't exactly the right one because we can't do a G natural and a G sharp at the same time. So, but let's just take that and say, well, you know, if the A-flat is what makes sense in the chord, we like to see that too because it helps us recognize the chord as what it's supposed to be.

And because you and Anne hear that way too, right?

You see the music and you hear it as It's hearing it and it's also seeing it because we are always looking for shapes and for, you know, how those things are, you know, okay, we can see the chord at a glance. And it's not usually a problem for us to, you know, to just quickly indicate with a circle or some other marking that, okay, that note may look like an A-flat, but we're going to play it as something else. But there are sometimes difficulties in extended passages where you think, whoa, you know, I, um, that's just not going to work, and I— there are too many strings that I'm playing on wrong notes, and I need it written Anne Harmonically in a way that makes no sense visually or from a harmonic perspective, right? But it's so much easier to read, to learn, and to play that that's what I'm working with.

Yeah, there's a functional— there's a functional level, right? Right, right.

Thank you for that word. Yes, functional level. Yeah, no, that's good. Well, tell me a little bit about your own journey, because when I first met you a bazillion years ago— not that we're that old— but I knew, I knew you as a percussionist. 39, I think. That's right, 39. Yeah. How'd you make that journey? Were you always composing?

Yeah, I think I was. I've always been making up stuff at the piano. And, and, and writing, uh, started— I started writing music, or trying to write music, at a very early age. I didn't know I was composing, you know, but I started, uh, I, I wanted to be a drummer. Like, one of my uncles was a semi-professional, uh, drummer who toured the country playing in jazz bands and stuff, and I wanted to be a drummer like my Uncle Rocky. He was, he was slick, uh, and he was really good player, had great sensibilities. I wanted to be like Uncle Rocky and play drums. Well, I, I took drum lessons and I, I did. I learned how to play drum set, you know, and it was a really cool thing. But there was a piano in the house because my, my sister, uh, was an erstwhile pianist or piano student anyway. And I liked— I don't know, I seem to have had this facility at the, at the keyboard Yeah, naturally. And I started kind of teaching myself about the piano in a very informal kind of way. And eventually my drum teacher, a great guy named Kenny Lawrence, who was a touring drum— I think they called them territorial bands at that time— uh, he was a very learned musician and taught me some things about harmony. Well, he taught me enough so that I could read chord changes. I could read chord symbols. And my older brother was an erstwhile saxophonist who brought home fake books. Ah, you know about fake books? And I began at my— at the family piano putting the fake books up and just reading through these tunes. And, and I could do that. And that's, that's kind of how I began. At the same time, I was very taken by, um, kind of big band jazz, you know, Stan Kenton and Duke Ellington and Henry— and really, I, I loved Henry Mancini's writing, right? And I thought, wow, man, that's really cool, you know. Some of the, the guys in, in the Stan Kenton band not only play the instruments, but they write arrangements for the band. And Maynard Ferguson's the same thing. And I thought, wow, that would really be a neat thing to do. So I got into— by high school, I had a— had my own band and, and, you know, wrote for my horn band. I had trumpet, sax, trombone kind of thing, and I wrote arrangements for that and for the singers and the band. So that's kind of— that was the beginning. That was, uh, that was, that was it. Self-taught piano. And then eventually I, I did study piano too, um, but, you know, much later, as a late teen, you know. So did I answer your question? I don't know. I seem to have gone off in 3 different tangents, but that's kind of like my professional life. It's like in 3 different— 3 or 4 different tangents.

So, well, and you're still working in different worlds now. I mean, maybe not so much the percussion, but you compose, you arrange, you produce, and you're playing as well. So, I mean, as musicians, we all do a lot of things, right? We do, I think. And I think part of it is because we're interested in a lot of things. Part of it, at least in some, you know, places, sometimes in our life, part of it's because, well, we just need to go where the work is. How would you describe your work these days? What do you spend your time doing?

Well, I consider myself a professional composer. So at this stage of the game, I'm not arranging or producing records for other people so, so very much. I'm now working, creating my own music. I very fortunately have relationships with a couple publishing companies who put the music out in print. So I— that's, that's, that's me. That's what I do. At the same time, I, I love the recording process. I, I was bitten by the recording bug— excuse me— I was bitten by the recording bug at a very early age, and I just love that experience of working in the studio and then hearing what I created come back through those monitors. It's just I mean, I remember the first— I can remember the first time I did that with my parents' old Silvertone stereo in the living room, the family living room, and coming home with this, this record that I had made in a big studio in Philadelphia with, you know, a string section and horns and this and that. I put it on and I went— I got— I have goosebumps thinking about it. It's like, holy moly, I did that! Wow, that's really cool. But that's never gone away. That's still— that still is. So I love recording. So yes, I'm a professional composer, but I'm also producing recordings in my studio of generally of my own music at this point. Yeah. Yeah.

So, well, and tell me about your, your teaching, because I know you work with composers and help them and of course, we have our Chrysalis Music Workshop coming up in September, and you're going to be working with composers and flutists and harpists in that setting. And so tell us, tell me a little bit about your teaching philosophy and, and, and how you work with composers.

Well, uh, yes, I, I, I'm— I think what we're— what we've set up for September is amazingly exciting to me. A great opportunity for us as teachers. I mean, you know, I know you know this, but as teachers, we, we get so much out of teaching. Don't tell the students, it's, it's a secret, you know. But, um, yeah, I love teaching. Uh, I, uh, was, uh, on the, uh, an adjunct lecturer at Temple University's Boyer College of Music for a number of years and worked in the composition department and also, uh, sometimes in the jazz studies department. My philosophy of teaching, always to be a guide, to point a direction that seems to be one of several directions maybe, and to work with the student to, to achieve their goals. You know, what is it that they want to achieve? And to share with them whatever knowledge I can, you know, to help them achieve their goals. That's really That's really what it's all about for me, I think, teaching.

I'm thinking that working with a composer has sort of an extra soft area to it in that you're dealing with something that is created inside. I mean, you know, there's so much about playing the harp that is, well, we've got to do this technique thing, we have to figure out how you can play that measure. And there's a lot of musicianship that goes into that. But when you're talking about somebody's composition, they come in there, they've got this idea, and you can't just say, "Well, we're going to put that aside for now. Let's do this." I mean, this is their— it's part of their soul they've just put on the table. That might be— it seems different to me.

Well, I think it is different. I think, you know, I think it does come in from inside. And it is, you know, it's like a child, you know. Yeah, here's this thing that we're creating. Um, yeah, I think it's all about guiding. And maybe as a more mature musician, maybe we can see the potential of something that the student composer has created. you know, and, and that idea of guiding. Well, have you thought about doing this? Or what would— I wonder what would happen. I wonder what would happen if you did this. Where would it go? You know, so that things are— the guidance is, is usually in, in the, uh, expressed in the sense of wonder. You know, I wonder what— because a lot of composing, I think, is, um kind of like— I don't want to say it's like a game, but, but yeah, it's kind of like a game. You know, you're, you're, you're creating stuff. Stuff. You're creating music. Yeah, you're creating stuff, uh, out of thin air. And, um, yeah, it is, uh, sometimes, uh, there's a playful nature about it, I think.

Would the phrase— with the phrase 'what if' come into play here. I mean, well, let's see, what if, what if you did this?

What if, what if you, what if you, what if we took this, this way, we went down this road? And okay, well then we can do that. But what if we did this? Well, what if you did neither of those, but you did some third thing? You know, yeah, I think absolutely it's, it's all about what if. Absolutely. Now, you know, I think also today, uh, there are different kinds of composers. I suppose this has been the case always, but there are composers who know lots of stuff about theory and harmony and, uh, different styles of music and musical traditions and, uh, lots of things about orchestration and instruments and stuff. And I think there are also some very, very creative and talented folks who don't have that basic information, that technical stuff that we bother to learn, uh, but who have a, an innate musical and let's call it a melodic gift, you know, or a gift for melody. Those are folks who sometimes will not have the technical capabilities to, to notate stuff The notation is, is a difficult thing, as we know, right? Right. But they might have it together to sing a tune or whatever as a starting point, and we'll work then with another musician to flesh that out, you know, to help develop that. I think that's— those folks are composing too. That's an equally important thing. And, and maybe those folks eventually learn some of those other technical things, those foundational things of theory and writing. But that's, you know, that's a good place to be too. So I guess what I'm getting at is that as that guide composer teacher person, I think we meet the student where she or he is and try to help them get further along to where they want to be.

So thinking about those different places that composers or would-be composers or "I really want to be a composer but I'm not yet" kind of people, if somebody came to a workshop with you like the Chrysalis Workshop, would they be able to say, "Well, you know, I have these ideas but I have no idea where to start." Is this something that you'd be able to work with in the course of a weekend workshop like that?

Well, I think so. Yeah, I know so. We could take that aspiring composer from that place A to place B and have some kind of chrysalis-like growth happen.

I know that there are musicians I have spoken with who have that, that bug to compose, you know, I really want to play my own music, I want to do my own thing, but they have no clue how to get started, or they're a little bit hesitant about trying to put something together at the same time they really want to take it to that next step.

Well, well, here's the secret. I think we all do it for ourselves. You know, I think, I think we especially start that way. You know, we especially start noodling around on the keyboard or on the harp. And yeah, that's, that's, that's a great beginning spot.

What you said ties in so well with my own thoughts. I mean, the, you know, the podcast here is called Practicing Harp Happiness, and what harp happiness is is, in my definition, is that it's being able to play the harp and the music that you want the way you want. And it is a personal thing. It's a search for personal satisfaction and fulfillment through, in my case, through playing the harp. But I can see equally where that would apply to composition or flute playing or anything else.

Absolutely. And, you know, we live in this time where there are amazing tools for hiring composers. So, you know, a composer does not have to be the person who sits with a pen and a piece of paper and, and, you know, writes. Uh, you know, a composer can be a person who records into a recording machine and, and then plays back and listens to it and learns from that, maybe amplifies that. Amplify in the sense of, you know, stretching it out, expand, expanding. Yes, um, you know, so we have those tools. We have, uh, all the, the MIDI equipment stuff that will translate that noodling around at a keyboard into actual notation. This is a wonderful time to live for, for the, uh, aspiring creative person. Yeah, yeah.

And how wonderful that you don't have to know any of those things in order to get started?

Well, no, you don't have to do that. You don't have to know, uh, any of anything about MIDI or, uh, or notation. You can just ramble. Um, it's about a beginning, a middle, and an end, and, uh, an idea, you know. So I think, uh, you know, when, when at least when I sit to compose something, it starts with, oh gee whiz, what, what is it I want to make? You know, you have blank piece of paper and you start creating rules for yourself, you know, rules for this game of composing. Okay, well, I kind of want it to be for, um, I want it to be a trio, you know. I want it to be for flute, bassoon, and, uh, I don't know, off applied. There you go. Well, you know, it's a, it's a, it's an important instrument that's not played, you know. Uh, so, so now I've created at least that set of rules. Okay, well, what's my next idea? Well, I want it to be, you know, harmonically similar to other stuff I've heard and I can sing. I want it to be tonal, as we might say, you know, so I want it to operate in kind of a major or a minor key. Well, which one? I don't know, let's start out in a minor key and then maybe later on it'll get to be major when it grows up. So, you know, we're creating parameters within which to work, you know. And then another parameter might be, well, I want it to be 2 minutes long, or I want this section to be 16 measures, or, you know, what have you. Uh, what time signature? I want it to be in 5/8 because I really like that Dave Brubeck tune from years ago that actually— that Paul Desmond actually wrote. But that's another— okay. Um, so I want it to be in 5/8. Okay, cool. So now I have these rules for my composition, you know, and I, I think that's a, that's a good way to start. And, and if you notice what I'm doing is I'm restricting things. Yes. Oh yeah, starting with that big blank piece of paper, which is frightening in and of itself because it could be so many different things, but now I'm, I'm limiting what it can be too. It's going to be in 5/8, it's going to be tonal, uh, it's going to be for off-attlied flute and bassoon, and, uh, in minor, I think you said. In minor, yes, in minor to begin with.

Yeah, but it will end in major. Well, you know, this reminds me of one of those choose-your-own-adventure books where it's like, well, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to make this choice, and that determines my next step.

That is— yes, exactly. And, and isn't that what we've done as musicians?

Oh, absolutely, absolutely it is. Yeah. Well, speaking of what we have done as musicians, tell me what you're working on right now. What, what projects are you working on that you're excited about?

I happen to be working on a piece for flute and harp. Really? Really. And I have a flutist and a harpist in mind to play.

Do you really? Anybody I know?

No, I don't think so. I think it's somebody you know very well, actually. Some, some bodies you know very well. Um, I just finished working on a very large piece for— gosh golly— for harp, believe it or not. Uh, and I am— I, I decided to, uh have a little musical, what I call a musical sorbet, you know, sorbet between courses of a fancy meal, you know, something to cleanse the palate, you know. So, uh, I decided to write a set of, um, songs without words, and I decided to make them in a very kind of pop song, American, kind of in the style of the American Songbook. You know, in a, in a general kind of way. So that's what I'm working on, a set of— I think it'll be 4, uh, maybe by the end of this podcast it'll, it'll be 5, I don't know. But 4 songs without words for flute and harp. So that's what I'm doing presently. And that's because the next thing I have to do is a large piece that I have in mind for clarinet and string orchestra. And, oh, how exciting! Yeah, it'll be strings, you know, string section, probably harp and percussion. Yeah. So there you go.

Well, that, that— I, I look forward to that. I, um, me too. Yeah, yeah. You have that, that big work you've done for solo harp, and I'll tell you that, um, for me, that is now a work in progress. And I can attest that it is a big work. In fact, I have to tell you, I was mentioning this to a few of my students the other day, and they had been talking about practicing and about things being hard. And I said, well, let me tell you, I said, I, you know, this is how my practicing is going right now. And I have to tell you that this is how I'm working on this because this is so hard. And one of them said, I am so relieved to hear you talk about something being hard for you because I thought everything was easy. I said, oh no, oh no. But I am loving this piece more every hour I put into it. So I'm really excited about it. But oh my goodness, that third movement is fun to play.

That is a heck of a euphemism there.

Fun to play. But it is, or it will be. Right now, yeah, right now I'm sweating bullets, but that's okay. You know, no, no.

So here I am as the composer of this piece. I mean, how flattering is it that you would put your heart and your time into learning this? Yeah, it's such an honor. I mean, it really is. It's a real honor for composers.

It's a privilege and an honor for me too, because I have this sense of partnering on this piece. I mean, you know, you gave me so many opportunities along the way to give feedback, and when I could say, you know, "Yes, this works. No, this doesn't work." And as we were talking about the Anne Sullivan Harmonics I was remembering one passage in one of those pieces, and I don't even remember which one, where I said, "No, you see, I have to work around it this way, and it's just, you know, it's just I need a B, not a C there." It was a— You'd written a C-flat. It's like, "No, I can't do the C-flat. I need a B natural." The process of working with you on that and saying, you know, "Okay, I can't just come back to you and say, No, I'm sorry, that's too hard, that doesn't work. It's really my job to figure out how it can work, and if it really can't work, then to show you what's happening, and we can work together as we have in the past to say, well, okay, you don't want to change it this way, but I can't play it that way, so how, you know, what works with your conception of the piece than I actually can do, right?

Right. And, and, you know, as a composer, you're just reminding me of many situations like this where, uh, especially, I guess, especially, uh, in the recording studio and conducting, uh, arrangements I've written, where an instrumentalist might say, well, you know, have you thought about this? 'ba ba ba ba,' whatever it is, you know. And as, as the composer or the arranger in that case, you would be a fool not to listen to the musician because oftentimes they have great ideas. And, um, you know, a smart composer is going to be a malleable one, you know. Uh, there are— there are flexible ones. There are many different solutions to any given issue. But the wise, you know, the wise composer, arranger, uh, conductor person is going to be the person who listens to— at least listens to what the musician player has, the expert in their particular field has to say. Now, they may not take that, uh, suggestion, and that's, that's totally okay too, because I, I do think that, um, uh, you know, I read, I read this a book by a man named Roger von Ochs, uh, years ago, who is a psychologist or psychiatrist who wrote the— studied the creative act. And he decided, uh, that he determined that there were these different stages to, uh, the creative process, and that, that a creative person wears these various hats during these different stages. So at the beginning, you know, one wears the hat of the explorer, you know, and one explores various possibilities. And then one is the, uh, let's call it the builder. I forget exactly all these different stages. And, you know, you assemble this stuff, you know. And we do this as composers, as musicians learning pieces, what have you. And then at another stage, you're the warrior. For your idea.

Yeah, okay.

And, and getting stuck in any one of those stages, um, will just kill the creative process. It'll just— it'll stop it, you know. So if you— and we've all seen people like this who, who explore, they wear the hat of the explorer and they just keep tinkering with things and exploring and, you know, so on and so forth. And if you are at that stage as a composer, uh, where you're the warrior for your idea but you're not at all flexible to understand that there may be other ideas, uh, you're not going to, uh, you're not going to get very far, I guess.

So anyway, well, it's, it's interesting, and it's interesting to think how those, uh, same ideas apply to performing musicians, or, you know, and I don't just mean performing on a stage, but somebody who's playing music, because I think lots of times we aren't encouraged to think of ourselves as being creative and to think of practicing music in order to play it as a creative process. I believe that it is, but I'm not always able to convey that very clearly to my students in a way that they actually believe. But it is, and I love that framework. I think that the fun of playing a piece is exploring what it could be, deciding even at the beginning of your learning of a piece, preliminarily deciding anyway with the right to change your mind later on, what the thing is going to be when it grows up, you know, when you can really play it and when it becomes a part of you, what do you want it to say?

What is it going to mean? How— what is it going to communicate to somebody else?

That's how I would talk about it.

And what I'm taking from what you're saying, what I hear you saying is that the teacher is guiding that student to learn how to connect to their heart.

That's the way I always loved to teach. Thank you, Louis, my friend, for talking to me today. And I just— there's so much that you shared that is going to, I think, open the eyes of a lot of instrumentalists to what really goes on with composers. And hopefully, for those composers who are listening, it will encourage them to come and work with us at Chrysalis. Hopefully for any instrumentalists who have felt that composition bug but been hesitant to get started, this is going to give them a path in and a way to at least, you know, test the water here and see what it's like. So just thank you, and thank you for your music.

It's been great speaking with you, Anne.

Thank you. Well, same here. Thank you very much. Yep.

Okay, I've enjoyed it. It's always so wonderful to talk with friends, and particularly when you get to talk music with friends. I mean, that's something I really love. And I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. There's so much richness in there, and you can just feel the energy and the possibility, you know, the— that creation of music, that exploration of the, the collaboration between the composer and the performer. There's so much possibility there, and it's so much fun. So I hope that that feeling came across, and perhaps you're excited about the idea of collaborations like that, in which case I would encourage you to register for the Chrysalis Music Workshop workshop, and you get to work with both of us and with my flutist friend and longtime duo partner Joan Marsh. And, uh, that will be just the most fun event. I'm really looking forward to that. I do want to mention that if you are interested in hearing more of Louis's music, I've included in the show notes a link to his page on SoundCloud. I mean, you You can find his music everywhere, but SoundCloud is a really great way to listen to a lot of the music that he has written, and you'll be able to hear the tracks from the "To Dance With You" CD as well. And if you're interested in playing any of his music, I've included a link particularly to the volume that "To Dance With You" came from. Came from. These were miniature pieces that Joan and I were just privileged to have Lou write for us, and they're published in 4 volumes. To Dance With You, that particular piece, is in the 4th volume in the set, which is called Celebrations, and I've put a link to that in the show notes. Now, next week on the podcast, I'll be talking about creativity. Creativity in music. We're going to be talking a little bit more about making your music your own, so that's going to be really important. And of course, as always, it's important to remember that every day is a day you can add more harp happiness to the universe, to your world, and to your spirit. And all you have to do is play. Now, as a special bonus here at the end of the show, I'd like to play one more track for you from the To Dance With You album. This is the last track, and it's also in the sheet music collection that I linked to in the show notes. Celebrations. And it's called A Time for Peace. And there's always time for peace in this world. So I hope you enjoy this, and I look forward to seeing you right here on the podcast next week.