Unconventional Tips to Land Your First Finance Internship

Hello and welcome back to the Market Maker podcast. And this is the second episode of our miniseries in collaboration with the London School of Economics Alternative Investments Conference. And I'm joined by Yuga Kozuki. He's the LSE AIC co-president, and we're going to unpack the unconventional methods students can take to secure internships. And I know, Yuga, you've landed speculative roles in the likes of VC, M&A, a major European investment bank, and a hedge fund. Fund in the past summer or so. So I know you've got lots of great practical tips that you're going to share, everything from cold emailing strategies, automation tools that can make outreach really scalable, how students can really access and leverage societies, which can open many doors, and your approach to handling pressure and also rejection, which is obviously a huge one with application season fully underway right now, but more so Something when we spoke a few weeks ago was about how AI can act as a coach, a mentor, and a teacher in the process. So really interested to see how you are using that kind of technology in a really productive way as well. So lots of actionable insights ahead. But first of all, Yuga, how are you?

I'm doing really well. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be on this podcast. I've actually been a listener and a fan of Market Maker for quite some time now, but it feels a bit weird now being a, a, a guest on this podcast, but thank you so much for your time.

Yeah, absolute pleasure to have you here. And perhaps we could start at the very beginning, understand a little bit of the journey before we get right into those kind of actionable tips and strategies. You said to me before that when you first arrived at the London School of Economics, you were not quite sure, not quite sure about finance, which path to pursue. So just wanted to get your, your kind of breakdown of how have you gone about then that first year of university study to try and define your options a bit better?

Yeah, for sure. So as you said, when I first came into LSE, I had no clue what I wanted to do. And I remember the first day of university, there are a lot of people, especially at LSE, where through family connections or through their other connections, they somehow managed to get a private equity internship during high school. And for me, it definitely wasn't the case. Last summer before university, I was a summer camp coach teaching sports to little children. And then when I thought about the 3 years of university that you have in UK schools, you have, I want to say, 3 major internship opportunities. You have your spring weeks in your first year, you have your summer internship in your second year, and then you got, you have your graduate program. And when you look at finance, it is such a broad and diverse field where even if you take IB, there are a lot more than 3, you know, types of roles or 3 branches you can go into. So I thought to myself, if I just do these regular internships, this is not enough for me to actually find what I want to do. And especially coming from a background where I wasn't sure what I wanted to do, I realized that I needed a lot more experience. So essentially what I did was I tried to put my foot into as many doors as possible. And the first way I did this was through student societies. So in my first year, I held positions at a total of 6 student societies in my first year. It spanned anything from consulting, venture capital to student investment funds. The 3 of them I'm still active in it now. I think the first one being co-president of AIC. And through these societies, you speak to people. And for me, One thing that helped me figure out what I want to do is actually figure out what did not suit me and some things that maybe I didn't enjoy as much. For example, the consulting experience, I think I found out that it wasn't for me. And I think it's really important to figure out what you don't want to do, as equally as important as to figuring out what your true passions are. And then, yeah, as you said before, I spoke to these people, I found out about cold emailing. I just went on to cold emailing. I think this was the end of December my first year. And then I was lucky enough to get 3 internships, again, as you said, between VC, M&A, and hedge funds.

And then can I just ask about the, when you were saying 6 societies, a lot of people listening to me going, Wow. How do you spend your time in terms of being able to manage those relationships, those interactions? So any practical tips on how to be super productive, particularly there's a lot of people who are just starting university as well. So who could set some good habits straight off the bat?

Yeah. Yeah. So in my first year, because I did a lot, there were definitely moments, especially in first term where I felt completely overwhelmed. Very stressful. And I think I would categorize stress in two different buckets. So one is when you worry about some outcome, maybe you have sent an application or you just finished a project for a student society and you're worried about the outcome. And the second bucket is when you're overwhelmed with the overall workload. And I think for the first bucket, I felt that it was very important to figure out what I can control and what I cannot control. For example, if I'm worried about an upcoming deadline and I need to do more work on it, that's something I can control. I can block out more time on my calendar and improve the quality of my work. However, if I've submitted a project and, you know, I'm worried about the grade, me worrying, I can't change the grade. I can't change the project anymore. It's already submitted. So for me, it was really important to think about whether it's worth my energy worrying about something that I cannot control. So I think being able to dissect what you can control and what you cannot is very important for you to keep, keep sanity in your mind. And I think for the second bucket where you feel overwhelmed, I think it's crucial to visualize your workload. So in my first year, I put a lot of random tasks just into my Google Calendar. For example, if there was a weekly math problem set, I would already book out, say, 2 hours of Friday mornings every week so that I know that that's when I have to do things. And then sometimes it came to a point where I just had so many things on my plate that just if I'm just trying to memorize it, I wasn't aware of what I had to do, what I had to do first. It was just too many things. And so when you get a calendar notification of say, oh, you put in to do this application a week ago. That kind of makes the process very, very efficient. You don't have to waste time worrying about what do I have to do now? You just look at your calendar, see the time is blocked out, and you go straight into it. And I think in terms of managing stress, so I've played tennis quite competitively since the age of 8, and not only through sports, but putting yourself in an environment where stress is sort of normal, or stress comes out a lot in those environments. I think putting yourself in those shoes is very important. If your life doesn't revolve that much around stress, when you go into these, I think, career paths, especially finance, it's very stressful. And if you haven't built a habit of dealing with stress, acknowledging when you feel stress, you can easily get very overwhelmed. So whether it be staying competitive through sports or keeping busy with personal project and trying to put yourself in a little bit of pressure, I think a little bit of pressure is always good for anyone. So I think being exposed to stress on a regular basis is very important. So I would encourage everyone to be exposed to stress, whether it be through sports or another method.

Yeah, when we last spoke, you had a really good analogy of that actually turning pressure upside down and actually pressure can be motivation if it's perceived in the right way. What did you mean by that?

Yeah, so for me, it's something that I started to realize, but probably through playing tennis, is that the physical sensation of feeling nervous and feeling stressed, comparing that with the physical sensation of being excited, you know, in both cases, you know, you might feel a little uneasy, your heart might be pumping a little bit. For me, those physical sensations are quite similar. So I began trying to sort of trick my mind and telling myself that when I'm stressed, I'm actually excited for what's about to come. I'm excited for this deadline that's coming up. I'm excited to produce a good result. I'm excited to do this interview. I'm excited to do this podcast. So maybe it's just a placebo effect, but trying to trick your brain into And to telling yourself that you're actually excited for this really helps to calm yourself down and think positively.

And although, like you said, you've had some great successes, some great wins, just a quick word on rejection, because I was with a group of students on Tuesday and we're in the midst of application season. And this one guy was telling me he spent like a long period of time, was up late, got this application away, and then he brushed his teeth. Went back to bed, he'd already had an email saying, you've been rejected. And he was like, felt just pretty gutted at that point because all that effort and within 15 minutes it's like, nope, sorry. And that's it. No feedback or anything. So what's your method? Because rejection is part of the process for handling situations like that.

Yeah, I think again, it's similar to stress where you have to expose yourself to rejection. To almost get used to it. So in my first year, I'm not sure how many spring weeks I applied to, but I essentially only got one offer. I was lucky enough to get one offer, but all the 99%, they were all rejections. And most of them were rejections in the first round. And what you have to understand is that there are tens and thousands of people applying to the same position. And most of the time, you know, whether it be through luck or lack of experience, it's normal that The majority of your experience through application cycle will be a rejection. And that's just something that you have to understand from, I think, an earlier stage. But again, I think I want to come back to playing sports or being competitive. Again, like especially in tennis, you lose nearly half of your points, you lose nearly half of your matches, just being used to rejection. And taking that as, trying to take that as a learning opportunity, you know, just because one firm rejects you doesn't mean your value diminishes. Most of the time when you get CV rejected, for example, right now, I'm looking at a couple CVs for ASC subcommittee applications and it's very hard to understand who a person is through their CV. It's just very mechanical writing. Even if we ask for application questions, unless you actually speak to the person in real life, they're not going to know who you actually are. So most of the time when you get rejected, it's not a reflection of who you are, but just how they perceived you in that moment when they were looking at your CV for however many seconds. So try not to take it personally. At the same time, getting yourself used to that process, I think is very important.

Yeah. So resilience then is the art of bouncing back, but in order to build that muscle, You need to be in situations, whether it's giving a presentation, whether it's asking a girl out on a date, whether it's whatever it is, like the more you can get turned down almost in lots of different scenarios, sport being the analogy you used, then actually you're just building up that tolerance, I guess, which is a lifelong skill. Resilience is definitely critical for long-term success. But let's move on then and talk about, you know, you're very much actively involved You know, AIC is like the largest student-run kind of event that happens globally. So this is a really, you know, big deal, but how much of an impact did that have compared to say the classroom learning? I mean, you're at one of the world's top universities, so you've got that experience, but then, so what does being part of a society give you and a network of students? What does that allow you to have?

So I think many people will agree with me when I say that maybe 70% of your value from university, you know, comes from the people you meet and not actually the course. I think if I only studied at LSE, did nothing else, didn't apply to internships, didn't apply to societies, I would not be the person I am today. I think I would say I want to give 70-80% of my personal development to society specifically. I mean, a lot of it is AIC. And that's because society is the best way to speak to seniors, speak to second and third years who have done internships, who have previous experience, and who can actually teach you how to navigate the entire uni, university, and internship process. And that's exactly where you'll learn the most. And I think for any incoming freshers who are watching this listening to this podcast. At any university, if you go to their student union website, you're going to find a list of all the societies. What I did was I just made a note of anything that sounded interesting. Most of them, they're very active on Instagram. So I would go to the Instagram, follow them. And when they open subcommittee applications, just keep in touch with them, see what kind of events they like to organize. And if you think it's interesting, apply to their subcommittee positions. Um, to give a quick shout out for any incoming LSE freshers, the AIC, we opened upcoming applications, um, earlier this week. So I would encourage everyone to check it out through our Instagram. I think there should be a link posted somewhere.

Yeah, and I was just thinking like the initiative that we're doing right now, which is you and Raul, your co-president of the AIC, when you came to me with this idea, If you think if it was just any other normal LSE student, I get messages all the time, but because you represent such a large event that you host and a society you run on campus, and that in itself has connections to the industry of which we as a technology edtech vendor to these firms. So commercially, it's like putting yourself in a situation where we can have interactions like this, and then I can introduce you to someone else. And so I totally get what you say. It's almost like you've got to create that network effect, you can be the catalyst yourself to cause that ripple, so to speak. Yeah.

And yeah, I don't think people are lying when they say network is what's important. And for me, I wasn't the type of person to enjoy, like doing cold outreach to someone working at a bank and asking them for a coffee chat. I just thought it was a little bit fabricated and maybe I'm a bit introverted. But societies, you know, it's a fabricated environment for you to meet those people with already experience. So it just makes the process a lot easier.

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And so let's get down to then the art of the cold email, because this was fascinating when you started explaining it to me, because it's one of those that I think a lot of students hear. They hear like, okay, application, jump through the necessary hoops, send it off, and then you kind of get told you should network, you should do some cold call, kind of emails. No one actually tells you though a systematic process of doing that to a point where you're going to yield results, knowing that the conversion rate of that outreach is probably going to be pretty low. So yeah, talk me through your tactics on how you approach it.

Yeah, so when I started cold emailing, I utilized a lot of this database tool, which is essentially a very long comprehensive list of companies of any industry, their employees, and then they also have their email. And so this tool was very neat because they had filters to target specific ranges of companies and ranges of people. So as I said before, when I got into LSE and when I started cold emailing, I wanted to export everything. And when you're cold emailing, obviously So you want to use a template, but you can't use the same template if you're cold emailing an investment bank as opposed to a venture capital fund. That's just completely different, right? And that's just not going to be effective. Someone's going to see, oh, I like looking at public markets when you're applying to a, when you're cold emailing a VC fund and they'd be like, that's, they have no clue what they're talking about. And so with this tool, you can filter with different industries. So for example, I just made a long Excel list of people I could contact in each industry. So I had one for asset management, hedge fund, IB, PE, VC, trading. I even did some like fintech startups, for example. And essentially, you want to be very precise. For example, you don't want to send a cold email to Citadel. They're not going to reply. They have their own distinct internship programs. But you want to be targeting these small or medium-sized financial services companies who don't have a structured internship program, but may benefit from an extra pair of hands. So for me, in terms of the size of the company, I mainly went for companies with less than 50 employees. For example, I was based in the UK, so I filtered out for company headquarters based in the United Kingdom. And then you get because it's a, because it picks out on certain keywords, I would put in keywords like, like venture capital or equities or commodities if I was looking into hedge funds, for example. And in terms of the people you target, most of the time I like to go with managing partners or above. Most of the time they're the ones who are, who know what everyone's workload is and they know whether people need help. So I mainly tried avoiding HR people as much as possible. Most of the time, my experience was that they're less likely to reply. And I think, so, and then what you do is you compile a list of people in these firms that you could contact. You bring out an entire list. And then when you're actually sending these out, it is a numbers game. So, but I think the mindset to have is that there are thousands, tens of thousands of firms out there, even within London or the United Kingdom financial services industry who need an intern. And your job is just to send as many emails as possible to find that firm. A lot of the firms, one, they won't reply. Two, they'll say we don't need an intern. That's completely normal. I think I had to send I want to say 300 to 400 cold emails before I got my first offer. And I think another fact you have to think about is the time of day that you actually send those emails. It's very important. For example, you don't want to send an email on Saturday evening, you know, it's the weekend for them. And my experience is that these people were most likely to answer you Monday or Tuesday morning, typically when they check their emails. But like, again, you can try it out for yourself. You can do an A/B test. You can send one batch Monday morning, you can send one batch Wednesday noon, you can send one batch Friday, I mean, for Friday morning and see what works for you. And this is all about just, you know, playing with these parameters, seeing what works. And just, you just keep sending emails. You know, it's a lengthy process, but I think I can say for certain that if you do at least, you know, 200, 300, you're likely to get some leads and someone who's willing to listen to you.

What's the actual composition of the email? Like how much is like, it's really interesting because it's almost like an art here. It's almost like you watch these YouTubers and they're explaining like how to utilize the algorithm to make your videos go viral. And it's like you do this all very it actually looks super off the cuff, but it's all actually a systematic process to achieve results, which is kind of what like it sounds like for you. So yeah, just what does the actual email look like in length? What do you attach? Do you attach your CV straight away? And so on.

Yeah. Yeah. So I think the, you can do different styles. I think everyone can do their own thing. But what I did was, you know, from the first intro, you always want to mention your name, your course, university. I think like who you are is basically you're a university student looking for experience. So you want to make that very clear. And within the first paragraph, you want to be very explicit in that I'm looking for a, say, unpaid or paid internship experience at your firm. And then you go into your experience as well as why you're interested in that company. So you might mention, you know, previous projects you've done. If I'm just using a random example, but if this firm like works in infrastructure, you know, you have to, you need to give a reason as to why you're interested in infrastructure. I think even within, you know, the same PE category, you have a variety of different firms, you know, firms focusing on secondaries, maybe geographically they're only focused in a couple of countries. So you need to be very precise at finding their unique selling point and trying to relate as to why that why that resonates with you. So I think once you introduce yourself and describe your motivations for the, for work experience, the next two paragraphs, you don't want it to be that long, but it's a mixture of trying to appeal with your experiences as well as why you want to work at that firm. I would say it's similar to a cover letter and you, yeah, you do want to attach your CV. So I used to always say, like, I would explain some of my experience. So then you say, like, as you can see from the CV attached below, for example. So you do want to attach your CV. And one thing I think I forgot to mention is that obviously when you find these people at your firms, trying to find some sort of common ground with them is very important. For example, if it could be nationality, they could be, you know, they could come from the same country, they could maybe maybe they were in your same high school, or maybe they graduated from your same university. You know, if you can find that common ground, obviously they're more likely to look at your email and maybe respond to you.

Yeah, just as a quick example, just last week I had a message from a student in Canada, and they said, oh, I really love the podcast, and they basically introduced themselves exactly like you described. In a really concise, succinct way. And then they said, by the way, could I offer any contribution to help you with your research for some of the M&A deals that you might cover on your show? Absolutely happy to do that for free because it's just going to help my learning and I'm already looking at this stuff. And it was almost like the value add was just evident immediately. And I was like, okay, let's have a call. Had a call, came across really well, and now he's already contributing and he's actually writing some of my LinkedIn posts that go on our corporate account. And it's kind of a two-way street, right? So we've got an existing established platform. So such as this episode with you guys at LSE AIC want to help promote, but at the same time, being still, I guess, classified an SME, it's like, we're never going to have the resources we would like as a big company. And you can add value immediately as a student. You don't need to be an expert. So yeah, I hope people really react to that in a positive way. But I guess you're saying like the conversion rate sounded like 1 in 300, let's say. So I'm assuming then there's some sort of automation tool in order to compose and manage this process. Am I right in thinking that?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I said before, you want to build several templates depending on the category of the firm you're trying to target. But within the same category, you can even, for example, you would have custom fields like, like Dear Mr. X or Miss X, that, that would, that would be a custom field. The firm name will be a custom field. And even the, the USP, like what's special about that firm, that could also be a custom field. So, you know, in every like template, it can be like I am keen to explore your, and then the custom field of their unique selling point. And so, and once you have a list of, you know, 50 to 100 emails that you can send, use something called Mail Merge. It exists in multiple platforms. You can even do it straight off of Gmail, I believe, or Outlook. And it essentially just slots in those custom fields looking at your Excel spreadsheet and sends them off en masse. So it's a very practical and efficient tool for sending, you know, hundreds of emails at a time and it saves you, it saves you an incredible amount of time.

And just finally, before we move on, what's the general protocol then? Because you're targeting, let's say, companies that don't have a big HR team or graduate hiring scheme. So people are used to that kind of online assessments, HireVue, that process. What does it look like when you've done it in this other alternative route?

Yeah, so I think first of all, most of the time you get rejected. I think that's the same as regular internship experience, but that's normal. But usually the next step is the person that you email would want to just hop on a quick call with you to understand more about your motivations and also who you are. I think for, yeah, actually for all of my speculative internships, I did two interviews, or I called the email and did 2 interviews before I got the actual role. For one of them, they actually asked me to do like a tester task to test my abilities. But most of the time, they just want to go in a quick meeting with you, learn about who you are. They might then refer you to another person in the same team, just so, you know, 2 people can make that decision. But yeah, it's usually one call or two, maybe, maybe, maybe three, I'm not sure. But yeah, straight to calls and then hopefully, yeah, they can, they can get you some experience.

Yeah, I know from personal experience that we've, we've, we have hired similar to that previous person I said reached out about the podcast. One of our existing employees did exactly the same thing about a year ago, and he now works for us. And I think at that point, it's very much tell me about this person. I want to know about the person. Because when you're a small firm, a big difference is every single person in a small organization needs to be a producer. That's where it's different when you sit in a big engine or cog in a big, big engine, like a large organization. So it all comes down in that environment to people. Everyone in a small business does more than their job. That's like default setting. Because you have to, because everyone's involved and everyone's growing it. So yeah, it always comes down to personability. I would say the CV is important to a degree, but yes, there has to be technical box ticked a little bit, but yeah, that personality shines through.

Yeah, for sure. For sure.

All right. Well, that last thing that you mentioned to me before, off recording was about using AI tools in a positive way. And I deal with lots of employers and it's kind of two challenges they're facing at the moment. Challenge number one is this huge monumental increase in applications due to students using AI tools. And everyone's become this like vanilla kind of template of what they think these companies want to hear. And so it's making screening processes incredibly incredibly difficult. So yeah, one of the things was then about how do you use these AI tools in a positive way? And the second point was about those same employers saying students are actively using AI to prompt them in real time in order to respond to questions when doing it in a virtual format, which—

that's interesting—

obviously can become hugely problematic when you get through to final stage face-to-face interviews. And so, yeah, I think there's a lot of misuse of the tool at the moment, but the matter of fact is the tools I think should be used. They can be ultra productive to the whole thing. So yeah, what's your, your kind of use case and how you're getting the best out of AI tools?

Yeah, so I would say the main use case for me is treating, say, ChatGPT or any AI/ML tool as a teacher who's ready to answer any of your questions at any time. So for example, one of the ways I used it was, say I had an interview for some firm that's coming up, and sometimes going to their company page is quite tedious. They have multiple tabs. It's hard to navigate what the actual unique characteristic of that firm is. So you can just ask ChatGPT, like, tell me a high-level overview of this firm and tell me why it's unique. And also give me some recent headlines of, you know, projections or, you know, big steps that they've made in the past 6 months. And then they're going to give you a very succinct and, you know, easily understandable overview of the firm. And then you can, you know, you can start personalizing your either cover letter or your written answers from the information you get from there. And I think, you know, these AI tools, they're very good at, you know, dissecting complex theories and complex technical knowledge. So, you know, for example, if an engineering fresher wants to know more about credit, you can ask ChatGPT, give me a 101 on credit and make it as simple as possible. And, you know, it's going to do a very good job of of making you understand the basic fundamentals of say what credit is instead of going into too much detail. And also one of the ways I've been using it is, so I think ChatGPT, but also Claude, I believe they have a tool where it's kind of like Siri where you can just talk to them and they'll speak to you. And surprisingly, their conversation skills are very good. So And for example, you can use this during your commute, I think. So one of the things I did was while I was walking to campus, I had an interview later on the day and I actually didn't have much time to prepare. But while I was walking to campus, I would be speaking to ChatGPT, okay, tell me about this firm. Has it done any M&A activity? What typical questions come up in these interviews? And then also you can just make a mental note or you can speak to ChatGPT and the transcript of what you're saying is recorded on your account. So you can revisit that when you're actually, you know, right before you take an interview and give yourself a fresher into what your thought process is. So I would use it as a sort of teacher that's like by your side all the time. Obviously a teacher is not going to write an essay for you. A teacher is not going to give you the answers, but the teacher will give you guidance and information. So I would think about it in that way.

Yeah. So it's like a super productivity hack. It's just there on tap and you can be, again, it's hands-free almost. You're just having this, what is, if you can trick your mind again to thinking it in that way, it's like, how much would a private tutor cost you? It's probably like anything from £30, £50 an hour, more than that. And so you've got that on tap or you could pay the £20 a month, you know, OpenAI fee, but you've got that. At different levels designed to cater to your starting point of understanding. Do you ever use it at all for like more emotional stuff in a sense of, I know my brother, for example, he has it where it's set up where it'll pull down a quote of the day and then it'll email it out to him. So every day he gets an email at 6:00 AM in the morning as a motivational one for him to start his day. Is there anything you could think of like around that aspect?

So that's a very interesting use case. I personally haven't used it in terms of emotional support. I kind of find it, hmm, because at the end of the day, machine learning is pretty much millions of parameters just giving you the most likely answer that would, that is going to suit your question. So I mean, obviously, you know, getting a motivational quote of the day is nice. I've never thought of using, you know, ChatGPT in that way, but maybe I can try it out. I mean, if you use like the voice audio tool, the voices do actually sound very realistic. And most of the voices, they're, you know, they actually sound like quite genuine. So I think I have a feeling maybe right before an interview, it might help if a student, you know, speaks to ChatGPT a little bit, again, gets a refresher on the information that they need to know about. And I think like speaking to people does calm your nerves. And, you know, maybe speaking to ChatGPT, it's very, it's quite similar. So maybe it'll have a similar effect of calming you down. But I personally never use it. I might try it out.

Yeah, a use case was, I remember my wife was going through, you know, the normal annual appraisal process and stuff like that. And it was almost like you'd actually banked up so much conversation with the AI tool that the AI tool was kind of like, come on, you got this. You can. And it was like, it was using all this language and actually, you know, it did have some, you know, quite dramatic effects, I think, on just confidence and actually dealing with elocution coaches. Something interesting you said there was about sometimes ahead of an interview, it helps to talk because actually ahead of an interview or a pressurized situation, what can often happen is you go into yourself. Because you're mentally thinking about so much and you don't speak. But the art of being able to speak well is like your mouth is a muscle. You need to loosen it and let your words and fluency flow. And that only comes through actual talking. So, it's a good hack when you're feeling like vulnerable. So, you don't want to actually speak to someone and also it's technical, so they might not possess that knowledge. You could use the tool, like you said, in an audio format to simulate. Let's just have a conversation or a few little warm-up questions to get you going.

Yeah, for sure.

Cool. All right. Well, look, thank you so much for sharing all of this cool information with me. Just remind me again, so what's happening with the AIC, with the link that we're going to share with this episode?

Yeah. So the AIC, Alternative Investments Conference, we recently just released the subcommittee applications. So for any LSE students from freshers to masters, all the way to PhD, to be honest, yeah, please feel free to check out our Instagram. It's @LSEsuaic. And I think more broadly, even if you're not an LSE student, if you would like any further guidance from me on anything that we've talked about in these previous podcast sessions, please feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn. I'll try and, you know, I don't know how many requests I'll get, but I'm really, because I learned so much from speaking to people when I was first here, I'm quite keen on helping people out who's coming in. But yeah, thank you, Anthony Cheung, for this experience. It's been a really, really good time. Really enjoyed the talking to you on this podcast.

Yeah. Amazing. All right, Hugo, thank you so much. And thank you all for listening. Till the next episode, stay tuned.