What It’s Really Like Studying at LSE (And Breaking into Finance)

Hello and welcome to this new miniseries where I'm going to be joined by students from the London School of Economics Alternative Investments Conference, a leading finance society at one of the world's top universities. Across this series, you can expect us to explore the realities of studying at a top university from managing pressure and expectations. We're also going to have different speakers covering things like leveraging opportunities to land internships, securing roles through unconventional routes or the backdoor, exploring exploring alternatives to investment banking and navigating a culture that can often prioritize IB above all else. All of this and more to come. So make sure you subscribe to the channel so you don't miss any of these future episodes with the LSE AIC team and myself. But to kick things off, really excited to have Raoul Verma with us, the co-president of LSE AIC. So how are you, Raoul?

I'm good, and I just want to preface this entire conversation by saying thank you, Anthony, firstly. For having AIC on for the miniseries and also having me on. It's an honor to be a part of your podcast, and I look forward to the discussion we're going to have.

Yeah, and look, having spoken to you a couple of times now, you're definitely the best person to kick this off, not just because of your role within the AIC, but mainly because of your passion, your energy, and your honesty about a lot of these things. And, you know, our goal is to help educate and, as we've discussed before, open up the somewhat black box of the LSE magic. Of what a lot of the students are thinking, doing in order to be successful in their future careers. But perhaps we start straight in at the deep end. Yeah. If we can, which is you actually dropped out of LSE. I remember you telling me before in a prior conversation. So how did that happen? And how did you weigh up that decision at the time? That must have been huge for you.

Yeah. So I initially joined LSE in the 2023 intake. I attended for, I would say, around a month, maybe slightly over. And I think over the course of that month, I made the decision mentally that I definitely wanted to take a year out to consider my options. And I think before I say kind of more on why I dropped out, the LSE faculty, the LSE team was absolutely incredible from the process of dropping out to coming back and also supporting me throughout the year. I met with my academic mentor once a month during my year out, and that was incredibly generous of him. So nothing against LSE, but I think there's two main things, right? I think firstly, you are in education for 18 years before you attend university. For a lot of people, I think it's a good idea to step back and see the world before you go back into education and stay in that bubble. I think that's something I definitely felt going to the LSE. Was I think academia. I was a little bit sick of it by the time I got to the LSE because you come off A-levels, which is a very intense time. Prior to that, you're in your GCSEs, and I feel like I'd just been doing academia for my entire life. And secondly as well, I had a lot of personal things going on in my life, but also I wasn't sure if LSE was the place for me. And I guess we'll speak a tiny bit more about this later, but The LSE is a very unique place in and of itself. There's a lot of pressure to achieve certain things. There is a lot of pressure to go down a certain path as opposed to others. And I think coming from an outsider, not really knowing much about, you know, things like finance, things like investment banking, private equity, all the buzzwords you hear, I felt like quite an outsider when I first attended. And I think I definitely wanted some time away before I came back. So I made the decision about a month into my journey at LSE that I'm going to take a step back, take a year out. And my academic mentor was kind enough to put it through so that I had a guaranteed spot for the 2024 intake if I wanted to return. And I think maybe go a bit more on what I did in that year out. So number one, and I'm sure they won't mind me name dropping the company, The Ivy. I was a waiter there for a year and it was one of the most incredible jobs I've had because it's a very old school restaurant. It's pen and paper, introduce yourself to every table, an extremely busy restaurant as well. So table turnover is constant. So I really got comfortable with going over to people, introducing myself and trying to build a connection in the first 30 seconds. Because the idea is, you know, the routine never changes. I'm going to come to your, come to your table and offer you water. But it's about how you gauge that connection as quickly as possible. And move forward with that. So that's for, first of all, one of the most pivotal skills I gained. But also throughout that year, I got the opportunity to think about what I wanted to do as a career, whether I wanted to return to the LSE, whether I wanted to pursue a different path. And during my time out, I secured two degree apprenticeship offers at the Big Four, and one was in consulting and one was in audit. And weighing up those options was incredibly tough. And I remember speaking to my older sister about this, actually, funnily enough, when I was considering the options. And she just kind of asked me, she was like, Raul, are you sure you want to do XYZ career without having considered a place like LSE? Because LSE is the door opener, right? And I was like, you know what, I'm not sure. And I remember it was the biggest coincidence ever because I was driving at the time, talking to my sister on the Bluetooth. And my phone goes off and it was one of the firms that offered me a position asking, you know, are you going to send over your passport and your details? We need to start onboarding you. And I said, I'm really sorry and I hope you can give my position to someone else, but I'm going to go back to LSE. And during that time out as well, I think it's worth mentioning that I definitely had kind of one friend in particular who I kept in contact with who was in one of my LSE classes. And he was pursuing finance and he's currently interning at an investment bank. And I have absolutely no doubts in my mind he's going to get the return offer. One of the hardest working people I know and one of the most down to earth people I know. And he knows who he is. I'm not sure if he wants me to name drop him, but he knows who he is. And he really walked me through like the opportunities that are in finance. And I guess as a philosophy undergrad, and he's also a non-conventional, he doesn't study econ or anything like that. As a philosophy grad, I didn't really know what finance had for me. You know, I always just assumed it's just a bunch of punching numbers. And then I realized all the things that I'm doing right now, you know, I love reading the news. I love keeping up with geopolitics. I love keeping up with policy. I love keeping up with, you know, macro trends in the world. I like thinking about what's going on in Asia right now. I like thinking about, you know, what's happening on, you know, Thailand's border right now. I realized all these things really do play out in finance. And a lot of the strategies and business decisions made are heavily linked to all the things that I was already reading. So I realized that, you know, there's, there's a lot of qualitative in finance I hadn't previously considered. And I definitely think that year out helped me realize and guide me more directly towards what I wanted to do. And I think perhaps a lesson for anyone who's maybe not in university yet, definitely do consider taking a year out. I think the skills I gained just in terms of confidence. And then also the ability to articulate myself, I think was incredibly important. And I think I wouldn't be in the position I am today if I hadn't taken that year out. And definitely, definitely recommend taking a gap year, even if you're considering it, if you're on the fence, because I think Anthony, you'd probably agree, one year out of your life when you're 18, 19, 20, compared to the rest of your life is absolutely nothing.

Yeah, I mean, I guess an alternative route to that was I did a sandwich year. So I did like a third year in industry out of a four-year undergrad. And that was actually my favorite year of my entire university because it was the one point where actually the penny dropped and the work you were doing had real tangible meaning and you got paid. And it was like, ah, okay, this makes a lot of sense. So, so yeah, I mean, there's different ways to do it, but totally agree. So what you go back to LSE then. And I think a lot of students, particularly, you know, we just recently had things like GCSE, A-level results, things like that. And a lot of people will be aspiring to attend at one of the world's top universities. So whether you're LSE, Imperial, Oxbridge here, or you're Stanford, Harvard in the US, wherever it might be, that all sounds great. I want to be at the top. What is it actually like though? One, transitioning from, I guess you go from school to college, then to like this international university scene and the talent pool widens dramatically. So what is that transition through those leagues like, if you like, of academic achievement? And then just day to day, that environment of living within that competitive place. What is it like?

Yeah, so I think Something you said there was incredibly true, right? When you go to a top university, the talent pool is insanely big. You go from being one of probably the smartest people in your school, you know, one of the top performers, one of the most well-versed in whatever degree you're going into, to literally knowing nothing. You become a fish in a big pond again, right? And I'd say the environment depends on where you place yourself as well. Every single university, every top university definitely has a group of people who want to work 24/7, are extremely competitive. And you know, I've anecdotally had conversations with people at LSE and I can tell, you know, they're not asking, you know, how are you? They're asking more like, what are you doing? You know, have you got X spring? Are you doing a summer this year? Are you doing any work experience? You know, what societies are you going to? Are you going to go for president in this society? Are you going to do this? So there definitely is that, but I wanna say on balance, the kind of mentorship, friendship, and just general allies I found at LSE have been overwhelmingly strong as well. I can safely say that I've met some of my lifelong friends at this university. A lot of it is through AIC, and I can get onto more, more about that later, about how it is genuinely the best community I found at LSE. But when it comes to living in the day-to-day pressure, and, you know, interacting with people who are more competitive, I think first of all, you're going to have to learn how to be brutally honest with yourself. Are you someone who likes to be hypercompetitive? Are you someone who can thrive in that environment? Because I feel like there's quite a few people who end up placing themselves in that environment, but it's not the most conducive to their growth. And there is no, there is no shame in saying I don't want to be in a hypercompetitive environment. If there's one thing I can get across, there is no shame in saying you don't want to work 100-hour weeks. There is no shame in saying you don't want to be in a hypercompetitive environment. You know, if it's not conducive to your growth as a person, don't do it. That's number one. You place yourself where you want to be. And if you let the external pressure get to you of trying to place yourself in a certain environment because you think that's what everyone else is doing and that's what's going to lead you to success, even though you know deep down it's damaging you more than helping you, You know, that's unfortunately the burden falls on you. You need to make sure you're placing yourself in a different environment. And when it comes to dealing with just, just in general, the competitive nature, I think it comes back down to being a bit more down to earth about what you want out of university. And this is something again, I learned on my gap year, and this might just be a massive gap year selling program, right? This entire episode. But one thing I learned about my gap year was when it came to LSE, I initially, I felt like I committed myself to something because of expectation. You know, when you get an LSE offer, it's like, okay, pack your bags, you're going to London. I felt like I was committing to something due to expectation and not because of something that I'm interested in or something that's conducive to what I want to do in the future. And when I stepped back and assessed whether I wanted to go back to LSE, that was the first time I'd really felt like I'd even thought about it, right? Like, I'm going to university, I'm going to have to do XYZ. And even now, you know, we're in we're in the depths of the recruitment cycle, I feel, you know, it's already started. When you are putting yourself forward for opportunities, I think it's definitely worth thinking, is this something I want to do? And this is something that I've kind of taken on personally as well to deal with the environment at LSE, is that, you know, when you are applying to an internship or a job, you know, take it seriously. This is something you're putting yourself forward for. And if you're not sure if you want to do it, you're not going to thrive at it. And I think that's the most important thing when you're in a high-pressure environment, you, you almost have to learn to be true to yourself more than you've ever done so before. Because otherwise, you're just going to place yourself into a pipeline, you know, potentially for the rest of your life, where you're trying to measure up to other people's expectations and not your own. Right. And I think it's extremely important. And I tried to do it at every level in my own life is that when I apply to something, you know, I'm thinking, is this something I want to do? And if it is, I will 100% put my foot forward. But if it's not, there is no pressure to put your foot forward. And I think that's something that people really need to realize when they are at a high-pressure university is that ultimately you're going to live your life. So think about what you're doing now to shape that future.

Yeah, I mean, that makes a lot of sense. But I wonder then with, you know, the students on campus, you know, that that quote, I must pursue banking, consulting. Like there's, there's only a handful, it seems, of roles that people seem to talk about on campus. So I'm sure not everyone has that, that ability to step out of the noise and have conviction behind backing themselves. Is it like you said, you had that, that peer, that role model, or that person that you can find in and can talk to you honestly? Was that what unlocks the ability to have someone to bounce off to then, maybe it was your sister, like for example, who you said you've also mentioned, do you need that? Is that the necessary ingredient to be able to, where you've been quite safe all through your academic 18 years, now you're going to have to stand on your own two feet as an adult and make a decision.

That's very interesting. I'd say definitely yes. I think something that not enough people understand, you know, it goes back to the saying, you know, no man is a giant. Right? We all sit on the shoulders of giants, right? You need to find your giant effectively, right? You need a mentor. I don't think you can go through a process alone. You need to find your mentor and you need to find people who can help guide you, right? And when you're talking about the pressures to pursue, you know, you know, the big careers, you know, your banking or consulting, you know, I think first of all, you need to find a mentor who's lived that experience. Right. I think something that very much, and I have no problem in saying this, I'm applying to banking. Right. And for me, the kind of tipping point to decide that, okay, I want to pursue banking and block out all the noise as to, you know, oh, it seems like everyone's applying to it. Let me just do this. Is when I had these mentors who have lived the experience and told me that their own experiences, opportunities they gained, and what they honestly thought. What they honestly thought of the job, what teams they enjoyed being on, what teams they didn't enjoy being on. And I think, you know, having someone like that, it only benefits you because first of all, I think number one, it's going to make you a stronger applicant, right? Let's talk pure practical terms. If you have a mentor who's lived the experience and they can tell you, makes you a much stronger applicant. We interview for AIC, right? And occasionally we will, you know, drop the question like, you know, what do you know about alternative investments? What do you know about alternative finance? Do you know what private equity is? And you'll be surprised as to the amount of people who get it wrong, considering these are probably the same people who are saying, yeah, I want to do investment banking for 2 years, then exit to private equity. Right. I think if you have that mentor, first of all, you're going to understand what is it you're getting yourself into? Are you actually going to be interested in this? And then number 2 with having a mentor is you almost have the ability to keep yourself grounded. At all times. Because I think, you know, I think Anthony Cheung Amplify Me is great for this. And a massive shout out to Amplify Me because I know people personally who have leveraged opportunities through Amplify Me, which have actually led to summer internships and concrete offers. It helps keep your boots on the ground because you're going to face so much rejection. So much rejection. I remember, I think I had one of the roughest spring week cycles of all time. I faced rejection after rejection after rejection. But if it wasn't for my mentors and people who supported me and helped me understand where I was going wrong, I wouldn't have had, you know, the relatively small amount of success I have had. So I think it's ultimately really important to have a mentor, not only to help yourself and better yourself for your application cycles, but also just to keep yourself grounded and understand your experience is not unique. Everyone has rejections. Everyone has these things. But what is unique is how you deal with it. I think having a mentor has helped me infinitely. And I think absolutely any small amount of success I've had, any advice I now give, it's the back of the— it's off the back of those mentors. No, nothing I'm saying is unique. It's just simply what I've learned and what I've had success with because of the countless generous people who have given me time.

Yeah, 100%. And one thing I was thinking as you were describing it was I was thinking the likelihood is that a lot of people who are at LSE have come from a certain, probably academic background. So probably a lot different from my own, my own, you know, for a large part of it, single parent, no interest at all about how I did at school. I would assume at LSE it's the opposite where there's a lot of parental expectation. And I just wondered then for any of those listening who are in that early part of their academic journey, how do you manage parental expectation? So we've talked a lot about, you know, your own expectations, your peer group assessment or benchmarking. What about coming from above, from your folks?

Yeah, I think I'm very fortunate and perhaps similar to you in this, Anthony Cheung. My parents, I absolutely love them to bits. And it's because I can hand on heart say their only policy with me was work hard and just do something that makes you happy. They would never pressure me in terms of studying, in terms of getting the grades that I get. In fact, I think my earliest memory of, you know, kind of primary going into secondary was I genuinely thought I was going to end up in competitive gaming. You know, I was so good at video games. I love video games more than anything. And it's been, you know, it's been a painful detach for me to not play them as much anymore. But I spent an absurd amount of time on video games and my parents definitely weren't as involved. But I empathize a lot because I know a lot of people whose parents, you know, might already be in kind of at the end of the cycle they eventually want to get to, right? So they've already lived that. They got very good grades at school. They went to a good university. I mean, neither of my parents went to university, right? So I think the expectation definitely isn't there. And I absolutely love them for it because it's a great environment. I don't like the pressure from above anyways. But I understand and completely empathize with the fact that there were definitely hundreds of people at LSE whose parents have probably lived exactly what they want to. Top grades, top university, high-flying career, and they're now reaping the benefits by being able to support their child to, I can imagine, hopefully do a similar or same thing because they've seen the kind of lifestyle it can provide. And I think actually one of my best friends, right, is, and I can say that he's got, he doesn't want to go into finance or anything. His name's Yash. One of the biggest pieces of advice he gave me whenever I would defy my parents— sorry, Mom and Dad— when I defy my parents is he always said to me, he's like, look, as long as you're not doing something wrong, right? As long as you're not, you know, doing the obvious wrong things in life, if you simply want to take a different path, you have to understand your parents are going to love you regardless, right? Your parents' love is largely unconditional. So I think if you are in a position where you feel you have to commit to something because of your parents, I think it's time you sit down with your parents and have a discussion. And I understand, you know, I could never understand because again, my parents are so lazy. I feel like I can talk to my parents like they're my friends, right? I think I can talk to my parents like they're my friends. I think my parents are some of my best friends. So I don't really have this pressure, but I can imagine that it all stems from communication, right? If your parents don't even know you're unhappy, it's unreasonable to expect them to do something or to think about it a different way. So it all comes down to communication and just in wider life as well. You know, if you're unhappy with something, you have to voice it. And if you have parental pressure, the only way to get rid of it is to voice it.

Yeah. The biggest way is to do what's going to make you feel probably most uncomfortable, which is perhaps in the first time in your life, and this is the transition into adulthood, which is this time to like step up and, you know, have the elephant in the room conversations, uh, for everyone's benefit. Managing expectations is the key to really a harmonious relationship and being transparent. So absolutely. Laura, look, let's move on to maybe two practical tips. Now, this mini-series, I know from your colleagues at AIC, is going to be packed with much more targeted strategic ways to help build build students up to get hired and achieve success. But from your side, two things. One, looking back, what's one thing you wish you knew earlier about applying to financial institutions? And then secondly, did you make any mistakes along the way that others could learn from?

Yeah, the second one, I made loads of mistakes. I made plenty of mistakes. And again, I think before I say anything, want to definitely put out there, I'm not an expert. I'm going into my second year of university. Everything I say, take with a pinch of salt because people have varying degrees of success and everyone has their own unique strategy and different things work for different people. But from the limited success I've had and the opportunities I managed to gain, I'd say my understanding of applying to financial institutions, something that greatly helps, I think, whenever you get asked, you know, Why do you want to work here? What is it about this role that interests you? Having a very concrete understanding of the role and being able to summarize it in a simplified way is so important. I think if you're able to explain the role and what you're going to be doing to a 5-year-old, you probably got it right. And I think this goes for, you know, my broader piece of advice. And kind of the interviews I've been successful in, I feel like it's the ones where I was most concise and targeted. When you, when you speak with brevity, when you're able to keep your responses short but sharp, I think that's the most effective way to get a financial institution to look twice at you and think, okay, this is someone who we can imagine having. Because I think at the end of the day, right, we often see it from our side, right? Like, oh my God, I thought my CV was so strong and, you know, This massive bank suddenly kicked it to the curb. What's happening? Right. And I find myself in that cycle as well. Of course, it's natural to feel that way. But you have to understand from their perspective as well, right? They're receiving an unprecedented amount of applications. So when you speak to employees or speak to these financial institutions, if you're lucky enough to get an interview, I think the mistakes I've made in the interviews I haven't been successful at is where my answers were long-winded and I wasn't straight to the point. You know, I remember in a spring week telephone interview I didn't, I was unsuccessful in, I got asked, oh, is there a team, you know, within the firm that you really look to? And this was something I hadn't prepped for, right? I didn't know if there was a team. And in hindsight, I felt like the best answer to give there was, you know, I haven't actually had experience within investment banking. Therefore, I don't think I can comment on a team that I'm in, but something I've read in the news recently that's interested me and maybe I want to go to this team. Is this. But instead, I tried to pretend like I knew a lot about a certain team, and instead it just ended up in this long-winded answer which went nowhere. And now looking back on that, I can see exactly why they rejected me, right? So I think brevity is your friend. And I think kind of moving more into mistakes I made was one, being definitely too long-winded in my answers, and number two, not actually engaging with the technical side of finance. Um, at a spring week level, of course you're not going to be expected to know your technicals too much. I don't think they're going to expect much from you in terms of the way of technicals, but you should definitely be able to verse yourself technically to a very basic degree at the very minimum. And I've even spoken to a lot of my friends who were fortunate enough to do investment banking summers at, you know, elite boutiques, bulge brackets, and things of that nature. And all of them said to me, you know, none of their interviews were crazy, crazy technical, right? You have the odd interview where it's like, okay, I just got peppered about accounting for 45 minutes, But a lot of them had this communal experience where the interviews weren't crazy technical. But one thing I've noticed about all my friends who were successful in their cycles was when they talk about a deal, when they talk about something they're interested in the news, you know, they can speak like a banker. Right. And I think one of my friends who was incredibly successful in cycle got, did a summer at Elite Boutique. Whenever I speak to him and I get advice from him about applying to a certain company or anything like that. You can just tell his language and, you know, he points to valuation multiples when he is talking about deals. He uses, you know, words like tailwinds, headwinds, and all these sorts of things. And they seem very small, but it's a direct indicator that you know what you're talking about and you could be a banker. And I think I definitely did absolutely none of that this spring cycle. When I talked about a deal, I didn't bring up any valuation multiples. I basically, I just wasn't thinking or speaking like a banker. And I can exactly see why firms didn't perhaps see that potential in me. And I think the number one mistake I made was not engaging with technicals fast enough. And soon as I engaged with technicals, I was able to connect with a firm and I did some work for them over the summer. And it all stemmed from the fact that, you know, I could verse myself, you know, in what an LBO is, what's the rationale behind it and all these sorts of things. So engaging with technicals on a very basic level is so important. And off the back of that as well, practical advice. There are so many resources online to get with technicals. And I remember Anthony, we had a conversation about this where I felt one of the advantages of going to a top university was everyone just seems to have these resources on their laptop willy-nilly, right? It's just seemed— now I've got a massive folder on my laptop with investment banking resources where it's every technical guide you could imagine. And to anyone who listens to this, you have my name, connect with me on LinkedIn if you want the guy, if you want the folder, please let me know. I'm more than happy to. I might just stick it in a Google Drive and put it on my LinkedIn. But yeah, there's plenty of resources out there. Find them and take the time to self-educate because yeah, that is— sorry, I'm just reflecting now. That is the biggest mistake I made this cycle for Springs was, you know, I wasn't talking like a banker. So engage with technicals. Keep your answers brief, be sharp, and be interested, right? Don't lose yourself. We interview at AIC, and I think one of the most unfortunate things is when we have a personal vouch where we think, okay, we should bring this guy in for an interview. I kind of know this person. I thought that they would be a good fit. And then in the interview, they just act like a completely different person. Right. And it's almost unrecognizable. It's like, okay, who am I talking to now? So be yourself. You know, be brief, be sharp, and engage with some technical knowledge and think like whatever the role is you want to go into.

That's great. Good practical tips there. And there are a lot more coming. So again, don't forget to subscribe to hear Raul's colleagues who are going to drop some of those in the coming weeks. But maybe to close then, two things. One, this series, I know you initially came to me with this idea and we kind of brainstormed before. What is it that ultimately is your motivation for doing this? Like, like I said, I feel like LSE in history has always been a bit of a black box of intelligence with these shared files, as you said. Shout out to Favour, who's an absolute legend, uh, in LSE folklore for, for putting together a guide as well that he's done in the past. But what's driving this series in your mind and why did you want to do it?

Yeah, that's a good question. I think ultimately it's probably my own experience. You know, I came not knowing much about finance, how to navigate, you know, these high-flying careers to having opportunities, you know, I couldn't even imagine in my gap year, right? I felt like my gap year, and I have absolutely no shame in admitting this, I felt like I was really down and out. I had these degree apprenticeship offers, but I definitely think it was one of the hardest times of my life because I went from, you know, Rahul, who did really well at his secondary school, you know, deputy head boy, to meant to go to LSE but didn't quite last. And I think for me personally, it was, you know, again, the people I connected with through AIC, through university, and all the generous, generous people in my life who uplifted me. And helped me get to the place I am. And I just think, you know, especially within the AIC team, there is so much good advice, so many interesting stories to hear about that I thought we should definitely be sharing this with the world. And I think there is, there is so much knowledge out there that, you know, even if you don't take the practical tips away, maybe you are an LSE student listening to this. Maybe you are an Oxford student and you already know everything that's going to be said in the next few episodes. Right. But it's more just hearing people's stories is extremely helpful because I think we tend to live in a bubble where it's survivorship bias, right? You scroll on LinkedIn, you're obviously going to see the person who, you know, is going to JP Morgan, right? You're obviously going to see the person who's, you know, trading at Citadel, but you're not going to see the story of those people who, yeah, they might be at that place now, but they had an extremely hard run up to it, you know. And I think I don't want to give away some of the next few episodes, but we definitely have a few where, you know, even the most conventionally strong people I know were unable to get something in a certain cycle, and they bounced back and were able to get something bigger than they could have imagined in the next one. And I think it's so important to tell stories about setbacks, you know, failures, if you will, right? If you want to label that failure, setbacks, whatever you want to call it. I think when you're in a bubble of prestige, high-flying people, people who achieve everything, it's so important to have boots on the ground and realize that life's not this bubble. You're going to have setbacks. And I think hearing it from people who are now in positions you want to be in is so incredibly important. And I think that's what mainly motivated me reaching out to start this mini-series.

Yeah, no, look, credit to you. That is exactly the type of mission I want to champion and use this platform for. So very happy indeed to have you and the others with us. Maybe to close then, how can anyone listening engage with AIC? What is AIC in the conference format? When's it happening? How can anyone get involved in or outside of LSE?

Yeah, of course. So, AIC is, and I'm going to go into kind of the pitch here, right? So AIC is the world's largest student-run investment conference with a particular focus on alternative investments. So that being private equity, hedge funds, and venture capital. We hold it in February of every year, and this year it'll be February 2026. And we invite some of the world's most global firms, a lot of household names. I'm not going to name drop them. You can go to the website and have a look. There's loads of, plenty of household names there. And then also a lot of interesting firms as well, which you may not have heard from. And to get involved, we take an intake of 350 attendees or delegates every single year. The application process is done through Dartmouth Partners. They're just a financial recruiting firm. And all it is is a CV and you put your best foot forward effectively. So when it comes in the way of, you know, if you want to attend, what advice can I give? It's just generally to have a well-formatted, strong CV. Um, just get it double-checked, make sure, you know, you haven't got any inconsistencies on it. And the conference itself, it's an opportunity to connect with some of the C-suite executives at some of the biggest firms. You get to hear from them in keynotes. You get to sit in on panel talks where they're talking about what's happening in the market, talking about their outlook for the market. It's extremely helpful if you're gonna be applying to, you know, application cycles and things like that, because now you're not getting it from an article that you have to interpret. You're getting it straight from the source. And then we also have workshops as well, where firms take on, you know, a much smaller delegate class of around 20 to 30 people. And they'll walk you through either a case study, their business model, or anything they really want to. And we also have an opportunity program. So if you're listening to this and you think, you know, I don't think I could even afford to come down to London and, you know, pay a ticket price to attend this event, we have an opportunity program. We're trying very hard to expand it this year. And this is also done at the generosity of our sponsors. So a massive shout out to all the firms who sponsor us because they're the ones who give up not only their time, but their money to help sponsor delegates who otherwise wouldn't be able to come. So even if you feel like you're in that position, there is always a place for you at AIC. And it's an incredible opportunity. I know firms who have directly recruited from the pool of people they've met at AIC because they've really liked someone, made a connection. And, you know, these are definitely, definitely great, great firms, great people. And I can't sell it enough just based on community. You know, the people you meet at AIC, genuinely friends for life. I still meet with alumni that, you know, I didn't even have a connection with through my time at LSE. But it's just such a generous, generous organization. And I think if you ever do want to connect with AIC more informally, again, just reach out to any of us on LinkedIn. We will absolutely get back to you as fast as we can. And, you know, I've had people reach out and just, you know, just ask on a phone call, what is AIC about? Do you have any tips? I'm going into my first year of university. What are mistakes you made that I can learn from? And I've had like, you know, 3 or 4 of these calls. And I think I speak for the team when, you know, we don't mind doing these calls. The whole purpose of this is to put on an event for the delegates. And it's, it's a service-based business, you know, I think I get to take a lot of the kudos and stand there and give a cool speech where I get a few professional photos taken. But ultimately, this is a service business. This does not work without the incredible team we have under us who work so hard to put this conference on. So big shout out to the executive management and later on subcommittee who will come in and help us put this on. And generous sponsor firms, but above all else, everyone who applies to AIC puts their foot forward, attends the conference, and gets something out of it. That is what it's all about. Right. That is ultimately how this entire thing works. So to engage with AIC, apply to AIC, attend the conference, reach out informally. But yeah, it's an organization for the people. AIC is a service. And we want to make sure we keep it that way for as long as it's alive.

Great. And what I'll do is I'm going to add the link to all of not just this, but future episodes that we do with you, you and your team, so people can just easily access that and anywhere we share this podcast. So Raul, great to get the series up and running. Thank you so much for sharing your, your story and your journey and your practical tips. And yeah, looking forward to it.

Thank you so much for having me, Anthony.