In this live panel, host Ash Cash convenes a discussion with real‑estate investors Storm Leroy, Juwan Rockby, and licensed contractor/entrepreneur Ish to examine whether real‑estate investing remains a viable path to wealth for Black people. The conversation opens with the provocative question, "Is real estate dead for Black people?" and quickly moves into personal experiences and market observations. Storm shares his aggressive acquisition of dozens of single‑family homes, noting that such scale is unattainable for the average investor. Ish and Juwan contrast that with multifamily syndication, explaining how additional units can boost qualifying income for lenders and lower per‑unit cost, but also highlighting regional price disparities that raise entry barriers for lower‑income earners (e.g., $40‑$75k annual income). They discuss practical entry points such as FHA loans, 70% lender credit for multifamily, and the importance of cash‑flow versus long‑term wealth building. Juwan emphasizes exit strategies, tax benefits, forced appreciation, and real estate as a store of value, while Ish cautions that many Black homeowners conflate owning a home with wealth creation, overlooking debt and the need for active investment. Throughout, technical audio issues force the group to shift the conversation to Instagram Live. The panel ultimately concludes that real estate is not dead, but the path to profitable investing requires strategic approaches—multifamily syndication, leveraging lender credit, and realistic expectations about income and regional markets—especially for working‑class Black investors.
Chapters
Yo, yo, welcome, welcome, welcome to a live version of Inside the Vault. Uh, I am Ash Cash. Uh, we are having a— we're about to have a great conversation, uh, because we're going to be talking about, uh, real estate. Is real estate dead? That's the, uh, for Black people specifically, that's the question that we gonna have, uh, right now. Is, is real estate dead for Black people? Um, you know, just to give y'all some context, so my brother Storm and I Uh, we had an awesome, um, interview, uh, you know, this, this past Thursday or 2 Thursdays ago inside the vault. Um, and he has some stuff to say, uh, and it, it gave a lot of controversy. Um, word on the street though, people saying that we dropping some misinformation because they say— they said, they said real estate is, is alive and well, especially for Black people. So, so, so, you know, not only, uh, do we got my brother My brother Storm in the building, let me bring everybody up. We got my brother Storm in the building. Hold on, wait, wait, let me just bring everybody up. We got my brother Storm in the building.
What's up?
We got my brother Juwan in the building, we got brother Ish in the building. And just quick, so if you all know Storm, if you all watched the episode, you know, Storm is— he is a real estate investor still, but he also is, you know, invests in cryptocurrency, stock market, all that good stuff. We got my brother Juwan in the building. know, Jawan, uh, is a serial entrepreneur, real estate investor with an emphasis on multifamily syndication. So we're gonna talk about that. And then we got Ish, my brother Ish, you know, one of the co-hosts on the Joe Budden Podcast. He's a real estate investor and a licensed contractor, which is really, really good because I feel like it's the contractors that be taking the money from the everyday people, which is why— You know what I'm trying to say? That's how I be feeling. Because I'll be talking to the streets and they be trying to get into real estate and then they be trying to do the fix and flips and they be getting, you know, be taken advantage of. But brothers, go ahead, intro yourself and let's start the talk. Let's start the talk.
Now you did an amazing intro.
I'm good.
I'm Storm Leroy, everybody. Kind of got a feel on the topic now. I've been in the real estate game for First properties, 99. And man, I got some.
Cool, cool, cool. Juwan, talk to us, brother.
What's up?
What's up, y'all? How y'all doing today? My name is Juwan Rockby. I am a serial entrepreneur. Aside from music and sports, I am obviously a real estate investor. Got my start in residential real estate. Now, I have transitioned and grown into more multifamily with an emphasis on syndication deals. I reside here in LA, California. I'm looking to have a great discussion today.
That is, man. So, I'm just going to start with you, brother, because you know what I'm saying? Like, word on the street is real estate is dead. Real estate investing is dead, right? And so, just for clarity, just for clarity, is, and this is my position, and then y'all can say your position, but my position is that, um, for real estate, uh, or, or for, for Black people should be owning real estate, right? So, you should own real estate, absolutely. There's no doubt about you owning real estate. Um, the only piece of it though is that there, I believe there was a time where, um, we can invest in real estate, meaning that not only can we own real estate as our primary residence or maybe have 1 or 2 properties, but there was a time where we can invest in real estate, keep buying properties and have X amount of doors, have tenants paying us rent, things of that nature. And when I look at the current market and based on my conversation with Storm, I don't know anymore. I'm like, man, it's like the barrier entry was low at one point, but now it seems like it's getting higher and higher and higher. And a lot of the money that people are spending to, you know, get a property, fix it up, find tenants, things of that nature, um, it, it is, it's just not as easy as it once seemed. And so now, and, and I'm talking from experience as well, like I got rid of some properties as well where I was like, yo, this, this, this, you know what I'm saying? I ain't making, I ain't making, I'm putting out more money than I'm getting in.
Right.
But I also started dibbling and dabbling in the markets And I'm saying the amount of money I'm making in the market is phenomenal. And so I'm saying, man, maybe we should start reverting into a different space. So that's how when I had the conversation with Storm about real estate investing being dead for black people, I said, man, it feels like once we got in, they moved the goalposts.
So me first?
Yeah, yeah. I mean, anybody can take it.
Anybody can take it.
Before you get started, I'm gonna bring clarity in my statement because I don't want us to go on a path that's not safe. What I'm saying, what I'm saying, like specifically what I'm saying, what I need to clarify again, the average person will not be able to buy 43 homes like I did within the last year. Average person will not be able to quit their job Go out and buy houses a year. The average person who thinks it's a single-family home for health, my opinion, that's gone. I bought for $40,000, $60,000, 2, 3 of them each year. Not the contractor, not the person without a job, not the person with all these years of experience, because we are limited. We are a limited group. I'm talking about, let me just go buy a house. Now I'm straight. Now we could go.
I'm gonna address my apologies. He's right, but he's wrong. So he's right in a quantitative space?
No, no.
Somebody can't provide 43,000 the same way he did. I'm not gonna say it would be difficult to do. However, somebody can accumulate Return, he was making off those 43 houses, maybe, maybe with 13. The numbers have changed. So, so what forms 43 houses? Form is the mass out-of-state property. So when you go to go and buy a one-family house, you might have been owning $400 a month from that. If there's that in areas— I ain't gonna say an expert, but I'm uberly familiar with the communities. In the Northeast, with storm might have been making 43 houses, you can make that with 73 houses up here. Now I'm not gonna say someone can acquire 73 houses in 8 years, that is totally attainable. And have the same exact monetary return as storm might have been getting with 43 houses. Rent in my area, 3 bedrooms in the hood, I'm talking about hood, 3 bedrooms, market rent. paying $2,940 for a 3-bedroom in the hood.
Sheesh.
Storm might have been making $1,000 a month in those houses in the Midwest. So the monetary— one unit, that's multiple of them in the Northeast.
But let me ask you though, it's because I think one of the reasons why, you know, Storm went to like— so I mean, if anybody knows his story, he was working a 9 to 5, and so he was buying you know, these houses in the Northeast or in the Midwest because of the affordability of it, right? And so while the spots in the hood, you know what I'm saying, you know, might net you a higher return, but what is that barrier entry though, right? Like, how are you going to be able to get into it?
So, a working class, can we throw it more average?
Yeah, so let's just say See, I mean, so, so average income for American families is $40,000, right? But so let— but let's just say, let's just say, let's just, just let's just say they make it $60,000, right?
Cool.
I'm gonna stay with the $40,000. Okay. People that are making $40,000, literally no peace. Huh?
Keep going, keep going.
Yeah. $40,000 people. You make $40,000, you live in Cleveland, Ohio, you can acquire a dream house before the end of the year in Cleveland, Ohio with a $40,000 salary. You can renovate houses in Cleveland, Ohio with $40,000, you might be doing well. So in the Northeast, the entry level, entry point is way higher. Like, there are no $60,000, there are no $200,000 houses in my state.
Right.
Again, you said I'm saying, but if the people tend to make a little bit more money, so if you're a 9-to-5 person and you make $75 grand, you can go buy it FHA with a $70,000 down payment. You can use a 9-to-5 and go buy it with your family making $75,000 a year. That is a possible point of entry for these people.
Yep. All right, so hold on for a second because, because, um, on Instagram they're saying They can hear me clear, but they're saying that there's echo on your side. Um, so how do we fix that, right? Because, um, let me just see real quick. Uh, I'ma mute.
Get it.
Say something now.
Test, test, test, test, test.
All right, so, so IG, uh, Facebook, can y'all, can y'all hear it without the echo? I want to make sure we get we get everything clear because I think I got Kyle said he couldn't hear. Ah, yeah, yeah, it's yeah, you can keep going.
Test, test, test, test. Let me try and lower my on my end. Does that sound better?
Yeah, yeah.
Sounds better.
All right, cool. So what I was using that same— if you make $75,000, right, right. I do agree with a lot of people, like the single person, the, the kid that used to come out, be able to come into real estate, is going to be hard. It's going to be harder than that. There's a reason, but we'll get there. If I make $40 grand, and I live in Jersey, and I go buy a house. That 3-family house might make— might cost $100 grand, but I might be— each unit, $2,500.
Yep.
That pays my mortgage. So I'm stacking where I would have normally paid rent somewhere else. I'm paying a $5,000 mortgage that I make. I'm putting that away.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's far-fetched to me.
And just to kind of add to that, I think, you know, as a former banker, right, as a former banker, when you do buy a multifamily home, the bank will give you credit for those additional homes up to 70%, right? And so, and so, and so you're probably—
I didn't hear you.
Can y'all hear me now?
Former banker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was saying as a former banker, um, the bank will give you credit, right? They will give you credit up to 70% of the additional houses when you buy— I mean, additional apartments, you know, when you buy multifamily. So if somebody does make 70, you know, 70 grand, let's just say, and, and, and they're buying a 3-family home, if, if you will, that extra income will be added because of those houses. So it makes it—
it may—
yeah, it qualifies them. And it makes it affordable.
Let me jump in and say something. Here's my thing. When we talk about investing in real estate, all of us on this podcast understand that there's so many components when you talk about investing in real estate. The first thing that I would tell somebody is, what is your exit strategy and what are you looking to do? Most people invest in real estate just for cash flow. And I understand that because that's the lifeblood of real estate investing. But that's just one component. As investors, we get paid in multiple ways in real estate.
Okay.
Real estate is also a store of value. People store their resources in real estate and hedge against inflation. So I will never say that real estate is bad for Black people because at the end of the day, I still feel like real estate is the number one component, number one easiest route to build wealth in this country.
1,000%.
Like tax benefits. Yeah.
Paydown appreciation.
Cash flow.
We all know that. Forced appreciation, like Ish mentioned. There's so many ways to squeeze the game and get money and get paid from this space.
Yeah.
Okay. You're, you're on mute, Mark. Stop. Okay.
You good? Now, now think of what we Jumping over is the obvious. We like to use the word wealth and confuse wealth with making money. You bought a house, you making $1,000 or $1,500, let's say $1,000 a month. You making money. You're not building wealth in that rate. Your house still has to work. People assume you bought an $800,000 house, now it's worth $100,000. You got a mortgage. You got a mortgage. You are worth what I'm saying. Just because people get on an array of, array of, and not even arrays. Let's take two. Those two houses would not change the fact that your kid will keep another house. That that money. You're making to be invested in something that will now stop you from having to work. We look at the asset and see the asset as being this value and not remember that there's a debt on that asset. So you cannot say that it's the easiest way to build wealth off of working. That's what I'm talking about. A person who got a job now comes out. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about real estate. I'm going to tell you I'm multi, but the average person is not coming out of the job to buy for you. The average person, you know, their brain isn't thinking about stuff.
They're thinking home, home.
So let's have the conversation in the space of a person who I don't want to get no more, don't want to own a lot of property, don't want to do all that. I want to buy me a house.
That person who—
that person who bought my house, now would they be able to say this? Wow, I bought your house straight, my family is straight. Because I'm not going to have a conversation based on us, brothers and sisters, who bought a house. This conversation— hold on, the majority of people listening to us, people just want to buy a house. They're not trying to own homes. Half the company— but my thing is, we need to tell more people to take the cash flow and invest that there. Set up your kids' brokerage account. Don't, don't. We made before. When you bought a house, game was over.
No, I think you can. I think you're saying we start investing or investing or investing.
That's not the average.
I know, I know. I'm agreeing with you. If you're talking about investing, the average homeowner doesn't even put this equation because they're not investing. They're buying investments for them. That's not investing. When you start investing, you're looking for deals off that debt. If you own that house for 40 years, $200 grand for it, when you die 40 years later, it might be worth $1.5 million.
It's not that investing.
When you start listening to the 401 nigga tell you how you invest $25,000 and you get $1 million back, it's a better thing than the 401. So, so what I'm talking about is this. I'm talking about people that are trying to build wealth, trying to build— you say you build with real estate. That's not true. I think diversity is part of that. I think the more money from your real estate, that takes more of that money to the place, have it work for you. I don't know if we have to, especially for young Black people or moderate income Black people, Yeah, yeah.
No, no, I think, I think the, um, and I don't know how we can fix it, but I, I, uh, I'm, I got a couple of messages. Um, lower your volumes.
Can y'all see?
Oh, let me see.
Let me see.
Comment. Yeah, there's an echo making it hard to hear. So they are having it having a difficult time hearing.
And I lower my all the way. Y'all hear me now?
No, I don't think when I in.
Like I said, I think like I lower my all the way to like twenty five.
Yeah.
Yeah, and I lowered mine as well. Um, and I did the echo.
I did, I did.
Yeah, I did the echo cancellation, all that good stuff. Me too. Um, all right, so I mean, what y'all want to do? Okay, y'all, let's take it. Y'all want to just take it to IG? Because I'm just trying to be, I'm just trying to be fancy on the, on the, on the StreamYard, but we can just take it to IG.
I don't mind.
Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna go. Uh, anybody who's watching, because it's about 30 of us right now, if you watching on, um, Facebook, LinkedIn, and all that other stuff Just go to my my IG page. We just gonna take it on IG so that way we can hear everybody.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we could talk. Yeah, we could talk without the without the echoes.
Yeah, yeah. I'm not gonna lie. I'm having a hard time hearing myself.
So all right, got it, got it. All right, so so so I'm gonna go live on IG and then I'm gonna bring y'all in.
