Creating a Positive Cultural Change in Business Organizations with Professor Amy Young

When I go into an organization, I will just get the feel of what it's like, you know, the culture. You can always feel it. You just get the sense. And what I'm looking for and what I can connect it to is what Jane Dutton has called a flourishing triangle. And it coincides with the PERMA model. Positive emotions, positive connections and positive meaning. And I look for in what ways are employees having that happen as they get work done. So it might be how are meetings being run? It might be what are the interactions between people? It might be what are the social norms? Some of these will really facilitate the flourishing triangle and others will shut it down.

Hey there friends. Welcome to Happiness Squad. This is the podcast dedicated to helping you unlock your full potential and by mastering the art and science of happiness. We bring on the best leading experts on these topics to help you unlock your true potential and live with more joy, health, love and meaning in your life. Your host is no other than the star combo of Ashish Katari and Anil Ramjiani who are both on a mission to provide you with an unfair advantage to be the masters of your experience and leaders in your industry. Get ready to be moved, challenged and enlightened on this podcast. It may change your life. Thanks for being here and joining the squad.

Hey Happiness Squad, it's great to have you back with Ashish and I as we continue to discuss with our guests who are industry leaders, how they hardwire organizations for human flourishing and, you know, the power of creating a genuine connection. Just locking in a gaze and having a real conversation can turn a brief moment into a sacred moment. Now this may sound easy and straightforward, but is it something that we truly practice daily? Our next guest is Professor Amy Young. Professor Young is on the Business Communications faculty at the Ross School of Business at the University of Michigan. She received her PhD in psychology as well from the University of Michigan and has worked with numerous Fortune 500 companies in the financial, manufacturing, consumer and automotive and healthcare industries. Amongst the many of our topics that we chatted about today, Ashish and I were truly drawn to her work on translating the science of flourishing into practice and the importance of compassionate leadership. You know, leaders and individuals of all levels can integrate compassion and kindness into their daily lives to not only encourage themselves but also others to flourish and as a result improve well being at an organization and individual level. As we go through this conversation today, you'll hear about how micro practices that link back to our Sunflower model. That's right, the nine practices that we invite all of our listeners to Explore through our Happiness Squad community. Stay through till the end. Hey, Ashish.

Hey, Amy.

Good afternoon. Good evening. How are you both doing?

Doing well.

I'm doing awesome, Anil. It's beautiful. It is sunny, birds outside. It's gorgeous, man, it is gorgeous. Living the dream.

I knew he was gonna do that, Amy, because we know after speaking to her briefly. Amy, you're in Michigan. Why don't you maybe complement that with your exterior. You're outside. What are the conditions?

Oh, the snow is coming down. So I'm actually thinking to myself, I'm going to make this a sunny day in my own mind because I can look out that window, I see the sun coming down. And some people love this, but that's not me.

I don't blame you. I don't blame you at all. Good.

Ashish. Sorry, Yeah. I was thinking, to our conversation just yesterday you talked about the sun. We have this model, the nine practices model in the Hardwired for Happiness. And you know, there were so many people who have said, hey, you need to name it, you need to name the model. What are you going to call it? Otherwise, you know, we don't know how to refer to it. And so Anil and I had been going back and forth and I, you know, I'd started with this thing at the beginning actually, and the sun, which became the logo for Happiness Squad. Actually originally the idea was sunflower and sunshine. So I said, what about the sunflower model? And you know, there's a beautiful, I mean, sunflower is a symbol of resilience, hope, adaptability. Right. Positivity. But there's a beautiful quality of the sun, which kind of just brought this thought over for me. Amy, as I heard you talk about, I'm just going to look up at the sun. A sunflower always faces the sun from the east to the west. And there was this beautiful saying by Helen Keller. Right. Which is that if you're facing the sun, you can't see your shadow. And so even though there might be a lot of dark things or things that are not pleasant around, it's a choice. We can actually look at the sun and through that act we can look at the positives and through that act, absolutely. Be happier.

Yeah. And you know about the heliotropic effect, right?

Yes.

And the work that Kim Cameron has done with that. Right.

Share that a little bit with our listeners because I am.

They might not be because plants are. They naturally will gravitate towards the sun. It's a life giving property. And human beings are the exact same way. And the son to us is that which is positive life affirming. And his model, this is Kim Cameron. His model is that virtuous action creates that heliotropic effect. People will naturally gravitate towards that. And that's why if you have leaders who really engage in virtuous action, people will be drawn towards it. And it is life affirming. And you know what, if we're going to talk about Kim Cameron and this life affirming process, you know, I can't just talk about the research that he's done. I'm going to tell you a story though. I started out my career where I was pretty driven. You know, my background is in psychology. I got a PhD in psychology. I love doing research. A bit of a math geek with it. I love stats doing research. And my focus was writing peer reviewed journals and getting them out there, getting grants and really doing the achievement thing. It was achievement connected with passion because I loved to do the science part. And I was turning those out, turning those out, turning those out, advancing the career. And I got to the point where I said, oh, I think I can do this. I've mastered it. And it gave me a pause and I looked at what I had done and basically it's a pile, it's a pile of papers, you know, and that was it because it was a lot of grants and a lot of papers. Maybe someone has read those. And, you know, really gave me a pause and I just felt like, okay, I can continue doing this and I'll have double the size of papers or triple. And at the end of the day, what do I get with that? And it did not feel very fulfilling. And there was a night, I mean, I was feeling really, you know, I lost my mojo, right? I lost my mojo because it was like, why am I doing this? And I was working late one night and I was leaving and I'm going to the hallway and the hallway's dark. I can see someone down the hall. And I knew it was Kim Cameron, right? Kim Cameron's a very well known faculty member. And he's either talking to CEO or he's. Because he does a lot of consulting or he's talking to another high, you know, level faculty member. Another high esteemed faculty member. Because he's so engaged, right? I couldn't see who the other person was. I could see him and he was so engaged, right? And as I get closer, I realize it's the janitor. Mm. And he is just, he really is showing genuine interest in this other human being. And I had to stop and think, because that's not what you expect in an organization like this, which has status, right?

Yes.

Janitors are typically invisible. We don't even know they come into our lives.

Isn't that crazy? Yeah, that's so true. In so many places, we don't even notice the people without whom our lives would be miserable, even if one day they didn't show up.

And I said to my. I stop. And I said to myself, that is the place I want to work. I want to work there. And I know it's rare because I haven't seen it, but I did see this one time. So it can happen. And if I really put my time and energy into it, I can make it happen. And so that changed my life. From then on, it was okay. I want to create that kind of workplace.

I think that's such a beautiful story, Amy. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. I think that going back to how you said it, he was thoroughly engaged, making the eye contact, having the conversation. I know this is something very relevant and very important for you. And Ashish, you said it yourself too. You've worked quite hard and intense. You sometimes wonder, why am I doing this? And so you each have your moments that shifted and changed and took you in a different direction. And on the back of that, I actually also want the listeners to know what Ashi shared earlier about the sunflower model. This is the first time it's been shared outside this group, so I just want you to know you're the first to hear that. And so on the back of the sunflower model, you know, Amy, you're a believer in what you call your 1% challenge, you know, and as you know, at the Happiness Squad, we are a massive believer in tiny steps towards large transformations. In fact, it's why we designed the Happiness Foundations course, which lives in our community. You know, so if we think about the sunflower model and the nine practices, which would you say is your favorite and how do you practice it daily?

Well, I. That's a tough, tough question because it's interesting. There's so there's so much overlap. And it was, which one do I not practice? Which one do I not put time into? You know, because we're very aligned in our thinking. I would say the one, okay, the one that I see really as foundational is really about the well being. I spend a lot of time making sure I have the well being because to me, that's the foundation. And it took me a long time to figure this Out. But I realized if I don't get the sleep I need, then I'm really kind of miserable and I'm not a nice person and I'm not happy at all. That comes first. And then I have to exercise. I am a big believer in exercise. So every morning, first thing I do, I go and I exercise. And then once I get those two things, I'm going to be pretty good that day. But I also really focus on how I eat. And I do that because I need that to then show up in the way I want to show up.

It's hard if you don't have that, that foundation, right? Just the basic foundation. And so many. And unfortunately, you know, in those moments when we need to put in the most energy, when we need to produce the most, I see so many people actually do the opposite of what's required. So they'll sleep less, which means their thinking is foggy, even though they don't realize it. Just because you drink caffeine doesn't make your thinking froggy. It just makes sleep go away. They will then because I am tired. But our body craves sugar and salt. And so then I'm going to eat chips and I'm going to eat, you know, rollers or whatever your chocolate. Right. So then we're going to put the wrong stuff that's now going to give us a sugar high or a salt deprivation. Right. And guess what? I'm not going to work out. And so lethargy and it just literally starts reversing and it takes us so much longer and so much more effort. So it's almost if we can teach people to build that foundation, Amy, like what you live into, you're like, I always work out, I eat well. And by the way, even before that I make sure I'm getting my sleep because I know if I'm not there, none of that is gonna work. And I know you are also a meditator, Amy. And so I know I always, with that mind and body we always talk about, I think mindfulness meditation or even just mindful breaks, being aware of where we are. I love, love, love those well being practices that you shared. And one step at a time, they change our lives.

Yeah, yeah. I mean like when people ask for advice, what I say is, you know, start small, little tiny increments, you know, a small change. So you know, if you're trying to start with exercise, all you gotta do like the first week, show up and do five minutes and then that's a success. You know, call it a success. You know, and, and I'll do that every morning. You know, I have a really nice machine, all motion transmotion machine. But anyway, my thing is, if I don't feel like doing it, I'll say, okay, just get on. Just do a mile. Just do a mile, you know, and of course, if I'm doing a mile, I'll do three and then I'll do six, you know, and then, you know, so you just. But I say to myself, all I got to do is show up and I get full points, full points in my book, you know, and that helps. That helps.

That is exactly. I mean, for me, that, that machine, for me, that is the Peloton.

Yes.

All I need to do, right? All I need. If I clip on, I mean, literally all I need to do is clip on. I'm like, if I just clip on for five minutes, I'll do a 45 minute class.

That's right. That's right.

It's going to happen. The music kicks up and it was actually funny today. I have to share this. So I was not feeling like working out this morning. Absolutely not. You know, it was my birthday yesterday. Lizzy and I went out, we had, you know, an amazing dinner and some wine. And then I was watching this and you're gonna love. This is the equivalent of the Pathaan movie. This was like Expendables. I mean, talk about the crappiest, crappy movie, right? Expendables. But I was watching that 11:30, so usually I don't watch movies, you know, I go to bed at 10:30. 10, 10:30. So I woke up and I was like, I don't feel like I haven't slept well, I don't feel like. So I got on and it was amazing because Cody Rigsby, as I love peloton, and he literally says, you know what, I'm not in a mood today. I'm not feeling it today. But I got on and I'm just gonna go do it. So it was almost like, oh my God, how did that happen today?

Absolutely.

But yeah, it is about these tiny habits. It is about starting from small little steps. And if you just do that, first of all, celebrate that and if something more happens, something more happens.

That's right. That's right.

Do you know I'm a massive. I mean, I am a fitness nut, right? And there was a time maybe a year ago, two years ago, where if I didn't train, even if it was a 30 minute run, 40 minute run cycle, I felt incredibly guilty and I would beat myself up And I actually would say, all right, now tomorrow I have to do 2x the workout. And I realized that. Okay, hey. My coach actually told me, she's like, you missed it. It's fine. Like, it's okay. You're still in good shape, you're still in good health. Tomorrow's another day. So I want to also say, contrast it for the listeners that if you don't get that workout in, in the morning, afternoon or evening, that's okay. As Ashish pointed out earlier, even if you can take six mindful breaths at one, two or three times during the day, that'll give you at least your mind a sense of recovery. And then the next day, get back on the peloton, get back on the tri, get back on the bike, the run, and you'll be great. So I think that's, I just, I love how you guys share that because I think sometimes people might do the opposite and feel guilty if they don't train or don't look after their well being.

Absolutely. You know, I have a colleague here, she's written a couple books on this. She studies motivation and health behavior. Michelle Seager, her book, her latest book is the Joy Choice. And she does great work with people who really don't necessarily like exercise. Here's a strategy that's gonna work for you because in our crazy world, it's hard to get going. And what she has found is that finding those little moments of getting an exercise is really important and not being so harsh on ourselves, that makes a huge difference.

Absolutely. So on this topic of flourishing and science, there's a real science behind it. Right. A lot of people, when it comes to happ happiness. Well, being people, just saying. Yeah, you know, I know it. People have spent their careers. And you have, Amy. Right. Spent so much time researching. So you're. I love it when we connected because so much of your work is focused on translating the science of flourishing into practice. Your work and the center for the Positive Organization Scholarship at Michigan. Ross, you know, you do all do so much work around helping leaders shape positive work environments where people can thrive. So what are some of the findings, Amy, from your research over the years? You know, findings around what gets in the way or what are companies and leaders doing that is enabling that to happen. Can you share that with some of our listeners?

Absolutely. So, you know, it's in many ways it's connected to positive psychology. And if you know about the perma model. Right. And so I think of it in terms of we're taking that perma model and we're creating a whole system that is creating that, making it happen so that it is an automatic thing. When you go to work, you are actually having that happen. So when I go into an organization, I will just get the feel of what it's like, you know, the culture. You can always feel it. You just get the sense. And what I'm looking for and what I can connect it to is what Jane Dutton has called a flourishing triangle. And it coincides with the perma model. Positive emotions, positive connections, and positive meaning. And I look for in what ways is work? In what ways are employees having that happen as they get work done? So it might be, how are meetings being run? It might be, what are the interactions between people? It might be, what are the social norms? Some of these will really facilitate the flourishing, the flourishing triangle. And others will shut it down. And so that's what I'm looking for. And then I'll suggest tiny tweaks in how people are working that will actually enable it to happen. So some of it is actually happening for leaders. Some of it's happening. It's decisions leaders are making or actions they're doing. But we also talk about anyone can create this type of organization. So I have people think about, how are you engaging with other people? One of the easiest ways is to think about how do you approach other people when you go down the hallway at work? Do you smile at them and look them in the eye, you know, and use a nice warm tone when you greet them? Or are you so busy with work that you don't even notice because in that moment, you've taken away the opportunity to show them human dignity?

Yes. You know, Amy, before we end our podcast, the last question that I want you to answer. Not right now. I want you to wait till the end. I want you to share those two or three tips that people who are listening right now, there is this whole thing around. You know, we want to create flourishing. We've got to start from the top. The CEO has to. And I. And I say, I don't believe in it. It'll take too long. And by the way, CEOs in many companies are kind of figureheads, right? I mean, the real work happens in the middle. And that's where a lot of the toxicity comes in. That's where a lot of the inefficiency comes in. So any person. I loved what you just said, which is anybody, it doesn't matter whether you're a leader or not, can take the action to start to create an environment of flourishing. Around them. And that is contagious. Right. So I would love to come back to that as the last question to say, what are the two to three things that people who are listening right now can literally start doing when they hang up from the podcast? That'll start to make a difference.

Absolutely. Well, you know, Kim Cameron has done a lot of work on positive energizers, and that's really what we're talking about here. They're people who are really reaching out and showing kindness, like getting back to the virtues, right? Kindness, compassion, forgiveness, all of these behaviors are really helping you connect a positive, making a positive connection. You're creating positive meaning, but you're also energizing people and what they've. Actually, there's a lot of research coming out of the center that identifies, you know, what you get from that is a, is relational energy or emotional energy. And that, I mean, think about the impact Kim Cameron had on me where I felt energized from after being depleted, right? That is relational energy, emotional energy. You know, I felt so refreshed to know I could be in that kind of organization. And that's the impact when you have that, when you are engaging that kind of behavior, that's the impact you have on everyone around you. So you, even without a title, you can do that.

Are you enjoying the show so far? Let me ask you a few questions before going back. Have you ever wondered why so many of us struggle with stress, anxiety and burnout and feel stuck in life? Heck, maybe you're going through this right now. Well, the reason for this lies in the evolutionary biology of our brains, which are hardwired for fear. It's part of the reason why our team named this podcast Happiness Squad. It serves as a reminder that happiness is what really matters and that we are in this together. And that is why we are so excited to share with you a resource to help you on your journey. One of our hosts, Ashish Guattari, launched a book, Hardwired for Happiness, and it is a 1Amazon bestseller. When you get access to this book, you will discover nine secular practices that can change your life and are backed by scientific evidence from psychology and neuroscience. Learn how you can integrate Hardwired for Happiness practices in every part of your life to unlock your best self, regardless of how busy you are. Shift from knowing to doing to being with a range of journaling, meditation and group coaching, exercises, and so much more. Go to www.happinesssquad.combook to get access right now. We also have bonuses on the page that you don't want to miss. Once again, www.happinessquad.com book and now back to the show.

Totally agree. So where I work right now, one of the expressions that's used Amy Ashish is servant leader. And it's something that I've heard conversations of folks like you said in the middle, in middle management mid career starting at this company, you know, they wonder what leadership is like and how they'll be treated. And some people are afraid of the leaders because they don't make eye contact. They'll look away or they'll feel nervous. But I found personally that anytime a leader makes direct eye contact and holds the gaze and briefly even holds the conversation, I have just tremendous goosebumps and feelings for that leader and going, you know, I really. You're human. Thank you. You know, I don't say it out loud maybe, but I do think it. And just on the back of that, you know, you touched on it in such a beautiful way when you talked about leading with compassion and kindness. And you know, those are one of the nine hardwired for happiness practices in the book. And I know that you're someone who absolutely loves and you're looking into and writing about compassionate leaders. Could you maybe share with us what have you found in your research that demonstrates how compassionate leaders truly stand out and stand apart from the rest?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean we've talked a lot about how I've really been focused on creating well being by the organization, you know, with the perma positive emotions and elevating people. And that's the way that I most of my work has been in that area. And then when the pandemic hit, I happened to be working in a health care organization working with leaders to create a caring culture. Right. And then the pandemic hits and I'm at the epicenter and there's so much suffering around. And you know, it was unbelievable the amount of suffering that our healthcare workers have been through and they currently are still going through it because it really created a crisis in healthcare where so many people were burned out and burned out at the physical level. You know, like they now people had to retire because they have heart problems, permanent physical problems from it's terrible. And so when people have left, it created more work for those there. And what I know as a psychologist is that when people are suffering, when they're going through trauma, compassion is really important. And as you know, like compassion is to suffer with and as social beings, the worst thing is to feel like you are left alone in suffering. So one of the things I did was I did some research. I was working with leaders, but I also had a survey data, engagement data. And one of the things I was looking at was what's driving burnout, what's driving people to leave. If I could identify some things that leaders could do to change that, maybe I could help here. One of the things that I found one of the most important driver was whether employees felt valued, whether they felt valued and then what predicted that, whether leaders were communicating with them. And so that's a very tangible thing to do. Like in the healthcare crisis that we have, people are leaving. But to be able to take a moment and like you said, look someone in the eye and ask them, how are you doing? The impact that has on them, you know, it gives them a little bit of hope that they're not alone in their suffering.

You know, what you found, Amy, is. Exactly. So when I was at McKinsey not that long ago, that was exactly. We have this article that is one of the most downloaded article in the whole last year. There was an article called Great Attrition or Great Attraction.

Yeah, well, you know what? You know, I already know about this because I download it all the time.

Yes, it's a great article and it was amazing. Right. Because we found there's such a disconnect between what companies and employers think employees value versus what employees value. Right. And to your point, literally the most important things beyond work life balance for employees was sense of belonging, valued by the manager, valued by the organization. And most companies, you know, executives think. Well, you know, I think people are leaving because of, you know, they're looking for a better job or they're leaving for pay. It's like completely. No, people were leaving because they didn't feel valued by the organization or the manager. They didn't feel they belonged. And it is so simple. It is so simple to be able to, you know, make people see them. Like literally. I mean, I see this thing and I am a big movie fan. Right. So Avatar, this notion of I see you.

Yes, right.

I see you. Right. This, I mean, just people are, you know, you talked about janitors. Most people are not seen.

I know, yeah.

It's so sad. I mean, the other thing is again, you know, you mentioned Jane and Jane's going to be on the podcast here shortly in the next three, four weeks. I love her work. I think she is so, so amazing. But the other part of the value is, you know, the other reason people leave is because they don't think they, they're doing work that is impactful. And the work you all have done at Michigan Ross, that is so heart of my own work around flourishing, around job crafting and really helping people reframe first what they're doing and hold it in the bigger context, but also infuse what they love and what they're good into. Right. What they're good at, what their strengths. I mean, it's so simple. And you ask people, how often do managers have that conversation with their teams? Like, less than if they. I'll tell you when they have it. They have it when they're doing performance reviews. And at that time, you're not in a place to think about all of this stuff because you're, like, just trying to, like, focus on what I got. What do I need to improve? You're not talking about what do I need to. Actually, how can I introduce more of what I love and what I'm good at and do what I'm doing, Right?

Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, Jim Mallozzi, who I work with, with Kim Cameron, the three of us work on a project where we're creating a positive organization at Michigan Medicine. He shared with me the other day his practice. So he teaches an executive, positive leadership. And he also was a CEO of Prudential Relocation, and he was one of the first leaders 20 years ago to create positive leadership with Kim Cameron. Anyway, so the practice he used was he had every employee write about, answer the question, what I believe, and they had to think about it, write about it, and then share it with their team so that they're actually identifying what their higher purpose is. And then they know each other in a much deeper way. But then also they share that with their leader, who then knows what that person really, genuinely cares about. And that leader can connect it to something in the organization, and that's creating positive meaning. And you're living it every day. Isn't that amazing?

Wow. Yeah. You know, there was this story. There was a story I read also, by the way, in, you know, there's a book called the Heart of Business by Hubert Jolie, and he writes about the transformation that was at the heart of Best Buy. Right. People talk about, I'm in 2012, Best Buy, Circuit City, on a. Literally, who's going to file bankruptcy first? Jolie takes over and he talks about how he really, truly turned that around. And there were two pieces that were at the heart of it, purpose of the organization, connecting it to the individual, and then this real sense of belonging and value and kind of identity.

For.

All the blue shirts at Best Buy. And you know, he shared the story, one of the stories in his book, and I love it. And it's amazing because it so mirrors, you know, as you know, Amy, the flourishing approach. That paper that you and I are writing around awareness, meaning, well, being, belonging and energy mastery. But there was this story he talked about. There was this one particular region and one particular store that was just crushing it in numbers, just crushing it. And so he wanted to actually go out there and say, like, why? Like what is going on? Like, what are they doing? And you know what? He found it all boiled down to one question that the manager almost every week, every month, asked his employees, those who work there. And he asked the question about, what is your biggest dream? And how can I, through what you're doing here, help you achieve it? Talk about feeling valued and connecting meaning to what you're doing. I mean, how amazing is that? Just that one powerful question, dear friends, what is your biggest dream and how can what you are doing ask that to your colleagues? Ask that to those who work with you, work for you? Ask them that. And how can we, in what we are doing, help you achieve it?

Absolutely. You know, one of the things that creates that I think we undervalue under realize how important it is is hope. That right there is creating hope. And when we talk about the world that we're living in right now and the suffering that we're seeing, the most important thing to create is that hope. Because then it helps people on that journey to fix some of the problems. And that's such a good example of creating hope and having it in a group. And that's why I love organizations. Because you have that opportunity to get that positive energy, it becomes contagious. And I don't know if you've ever seen that in organizations. When that emotion becomes contagious. Yeah.

Versus resignation. Versus resignation, which so many organizations are. And I went through an ontological coaching model, Amy, and it changed my life because I realized, you know, I, you know, I've been consulting for 25 years and literally changed my life because I realized there are two big mistakes that most consultants make. Every consultant, all companies, because we don't teach people this first, we actually don't know how to spot and actually action resentment that is at the heart of teams in companies. I'm working, right, and we're like doing this cross functional thing. We'll bring team. The head of R and D doesn't like the head of manufacturing and they both don't like the marketing person. I mean, how do you Collaborate. But the other thing, which is so, so, so key moods of resignation that organizations find themselves in. And here we show up, consultants show up, leaders show up, the next transformation program, blah, blah, blah, blah. We're going to go climb the hill into the person. This is his seventh, and every one of the last six did the same thing. And they worked incredibly hard. And nothing changed. And nothing changed for him. And so we don't talk about resignation versus how do you actually truly create hope, genuine hope?

Well, you know, one of the ways that we focus on is, you know, leadership is going to. When we work with leaders in creating a culture change, you know, leaders will set a vision of where they want to go. But then the next step is to invite everyone to be a part of that and for them to actually identify the solutions so that it's their solution, right? And so they have the opportunity to really, you know, they've seen problems all along, right? They know what the problems are. Why not let them be part of the solution? And it's honoring them, too. It's saying, I think you have something valuable to contribute.

As I listen to the two of you and the examples you're sharing, we start back to Cam at the start a direct connection conversation with the janitor, right? Something you wouldn't expect, but it gives you hope, it gives you confidence. As the example you gave about the CEO of Best Buy learning from a store manager, a very simple question. How can I make your dream come true? You think about the hope that you both just talked about that gets created. I mean, Ashish, you and I talk about this. You know, we are wired for fear, right? We're looking at fight or flight. You know, and obviously, anytime someone goes into an organization, they're probably thinking, okay, I don't want to make eye contact. I just want to just fly below the radar and not engage. But if you hear stories like this, that's what we want to have. Those are the practices that we want people to develop. We want them to integrate it at all levels. This is not just for CEOs. This could be at home, this could be at work. This could be at a store. This could be at an office. So I just want to say, you know, I really appreciated those examples you both just shared. And so now, Amy, I'm going to go back to what Ashish mentioned earlier, which I thought was absolutely fantastic. We would love to know from your experience one, two or three tips that you could please share with us and our listeners. And more importantly, how could they integrate that into their Personal or professional lives tomorrow, heck, today, in order to really unlock their full potential.

Absolutely. I mean, the one that I use, the very first one that I teach in my class on positive communication, I have. And this is going back to that greeting, right? And this is coming from a dear friend and colleague, Julia Mervel, who studies positive communication. He identified what are the behaviors of someone who's a positive communicator. The first one is to greet other people. So to approach other people and really give them, look them in the eye, have a warm smile, and this can be done in the grocery store, etc. Etc. For the class, what I have them do is they need to think about how do you feel and what are you thinking about before and then during and after and what do you notice in the other person? So they become more aware and more mindful. And what we find is that typically people are afraid, afraid of approaching someone they don't know. And what I tell them is that you're going to have to overcome that little bit of fear and try it and see what happens. And so I push them, you know, I push them a little bit. But what they find is that what they see is a joy in the other person's face. And they get that in return. They get that in return. So that's going to be the first one.

So first is smile, smile, smile.

And it actually has a physiological effect. You know, it's called the social engagement system. It's hitting that vagal nerve. And so it is having a positive impact on your body. So right there, that's. That would, that's gonna be the first one. The second one I would say is learning that you can. You are not your emotions. And what I mean by that is that we think that when we have an emotion, we think it owns us, but we can actually, it's more like a cloud and the weather, you can move that cloud away and you can look at and say, okay, I'm feeling this. I don't have to feel this way. I can separate myself from it. So you have some control over what you feel. Change the situation you're in. So this is how you can easily get into this toxic positivity. Try to feel positive. No, you create the experience that you know you will enjoy. So have go to things that you like. I know the music I like. I know if I exercise, I feel better. I know. So I have my go to things and when I don't feel good, I go do them. I don't ask myself, do you feel like doing it? No, I go do it, because being in that situation changes how I feel. I have control over my emotions. So that's the other one I would say. And then I think, you know, taking the time to asking how people are doing right now, there are a lot of people suffering, and we feel like we got to fix it. But there is something about just listening.

Yes, yes.

Fully listening. Giving them your time. That's such a gift.

And asking that twice, Amy. Right. So that's the other thing that I. You know, when I do workshops with my clients, I always say, go do this. Ask, how are you doing? Usually the first answer is, fine. Busy. Okay. And asking that question again with intention, looking at the face, not on your phone, and truly saying, how are you really doing? And just holding space. You know, we had gotten so used to just saying fine. We ask this question 30 to 50 times a day, and we don't mean it. It's by the zone. We just say hello. And so really creating space, holding space. That by itself is. And we don't need to fix anything. We don't need to do anything. People are not looking for us to do anything. Right. But we start doing that and showing up and naming it. And that by itself allows people.

Yeah, here's the thing. They're no longer suffering alone.

Yes.

And that's compassion.

Yes.

Beautiful. Beautiful.

I think the one thing I would love to add to that is so I know people who. I'm someone who will ask, hey, how are you feeling? How are you doing? And when someone shares, they open up. They're sharing. So you really have to hold that moment and remain engaged. I know of people, and I'm sorry, this is not meant to be preachy, but who take that information and share it with others. Oh, you know, so and so said this to me today, and I think that this is integrity. This is also, you know, it's a genuine connection. It's trust. It's in confidence. And, you know, if we want to create a positive environment, let's make sure that when folks do open up and they do share how they're truly feeling and what's on their mind, that we respect that and we invite that conversation as opposed to, you know, end up using that as sometimes we like to do it. Bit of juicy gossip. No, no, that's not the intention. So I love that. That's the. The differences as. As I talked about intention versus behavior. So if you have a genuine intention, don't. Don't muck it up with unfortunate behavior.

You know, that that's A sacred moment right there.

That's exactly.

It's a sacred moment. Treat it as though it's a sacred moment.

Well, let's wrap up with that. Amy, that was an amazing set of three things. Three things people can start doing right now.

Absolutely. And you know, they work. They work. I know it because I live it every day. I practice these and people can feel better.

Yeah. Smile. You are not your emotion. By the way, friends, for those who are who are listening, that is our second micro practice in hardwired for happiness, the foundation course. I am not my body. I'm not my mind creating that space. And third, just asking how are you doing and holding space and using that sacred moment to just allow to suffer with right to truly give space for the other to be seen.

Amy, thank you.

That's where healing happens. That's where healing happens.

Yes.

Yes. So thank you. This has really been a wonderful conversation. I've enjoyed it so much.

As if we thank you so much, Amy Ashish. This was beautiful. Hey, let's create some genuine connections out there. I wish you all the best. Have a great afternoon. Stay warm, both of you, and may the sun shine wherever you are.

Very good.

Take care. Bye Bye.

Bye.

I hope you enjoyed the episode today on the Happiness Squad podcast. Make sure to hit subscribe on your chosen platform that you listen to us on. If this episode made you think of someone, take a screenshot and share this podcast episode with them. Go to www.happinesssquad.com where you can catch the show notes for this episode and learn more. Back us and the community we are building. The community is where we gather weekly to practice and connect with other learners, teachers and practitioners working together to unlock our best selves. Lastly, follow along on Instagram yhappinesssquad for tons of behind the scenes as well as short videos designed just for you. It's where we hang out in between episodes once again. Www.happinesssquad.com all links can be found found in the description below. Until next time.