Embracing Self-compassion through Mindfulness with Dr. Shauna Shapiro

Mindfulness is although it seems relatively simple, it's quite nuanced. And to really receive the transformational power of this practice, it's important to really understand the three key elements.

Hey there friends. Welcome to Happiness Squad. This is the podcast dedicated to helping you unlock your full potential by mastering the art and science of happiness. We bring on the best leading experts on these topics to help you unlock your true potential and live with more joy, health, love and meaning in your life. Your host is no other than the star combo of Ashish Kothari and Anil Ramjiani who are both on a mission to provide you with an unfair advantage to be the masters of your experience and leaders in your industry. Get ready to be moved, challenged and enlightened on this podcast. It may change your life. Thanks for being here and joining the squad. Hey Happiness Squad. It's great to have you with Ashish and I as we host guests who are industry leaders helping individuals and organizations unlock their inner happiness and flourishing. Our next guest discovered mindfulness during the darkest period of her Life. She was 17, lying in a hospital bed, a metal rod in her spine, watching her life dissolve before her eyes. Throughout months of rehabilitation, what tortured her the most was the fear that she would never be happy again. Mindfulness became her path to healing. Meet Shawna Shapiro Shauna is a bestselling author, clinical psychologist, and internationally recognized expert in mindfulness and self compassion. She's a professor at Santa Clara University and has published over 150 papers and three critically acclaimed books translated in over 16 languages. Her work has been featured in the Walter Journal, Oprah and the NPR. Her TEDx talk, the Power of Mindfulness has been viewed over 3 million times. Shauna's book, Good Morning, I Love youe, which incorporates practices in mindfulness, self compassion and joy, takes a center place in our conversation where we delve into her journey and the power of the practices that have truly made a difference in her life and of those around her. Stay tuned for Rapid Fire at the end where you'll get to know Shauna at a deeper level. Let's get started. Please join Ashish and I as we welcome Shauna to the Happiness Squad and rewire together. Shauna, Ashish, how are you both doing today?

Well, I'm delighted to be here.

Anila, I'm doing fantastic. And Shauna, it's so lovely to have you. Thank you for joining. I know it's a bit early for you in California morning, but I'm so glad that you're with us.

You know Shauna, one of our favorite questions that we love to ask. And Ashish knows Lizzie has been waiting for us to ask you this because she's read your book cover to cover. And the first one that came to mind is what we'd love to ask all our guests, which is what is happiness to you? And how has your definition of happiness changed since you were younger till now?

Such a great question. And it definitely has changed. It's interesting because I was reflecting on that recently. I'm teaching a class on positive psychology, and we're talking about happiness. And I was sharing with the class this moment when I was maybe 20 years old and I was at the monastery in Thailand. And I felt this sense of peace and contentment that I had never experienced before. And nothing in my external world had changed. Right. I didn't win a lot of money. I didn't. Nothing. You know, I didn't get married or find my perfect soulmate. It was my internal circumstances. And so I think that's what happiness is, is this contentment with things as they are. Not having to be somewhere else, not having to be someone else. This sense of ease and gratitude and appreciation of the present moment.

I love that, Shauna. Right. And it's so in sync. We always talk about happiness being an inner game, happiness being a choice versus something we get from all the extrinsic pleasures, achievements, or even if it's not achievements, control. Right. I love how you open your book. You open your book with a quote. What you practice grows stronger. Share with our listeners the moment in your life journey, where that quote came from and what set you on your course to share these practices on mindfulness, self, compassion, and joy with the rest of the world.

Yeah, it's my favorite quote. I'm glad you brought it up. What you practice grows stronger. It's really the essence of neuroplasticity.

Yes.

That our repeated thoughts, emotions, behaviors, they shape our brain. And I first learned this quote, actually at that same monastery in Thailand when I was 17. I had spinal fusion surgery. So I had had scoliosis throughout high school, But I went through a growth spur and my spine curved so dramatically that it was going to puncture my lungs. And so all of a sudden, I had to operate. And I went from this kind of healthy, active teenager. I was captain of my volleyball team to lying in a hospital bed unable to walk. And I was in that hospital bed for six months. So it was a very painful, difficult time. The physical pain was hard. I mean, I remember just trying to, like, turn my head back and Forth hurt so much, and I kind of had to relearn how to move my body. And during this time, I became really depressed. You know, I had had these dreams of being a volleyball player, and I never played volleyball again. I was a senior in high school, and I wanted to go to prom and to all the special things for seniors. And I was in a hospital bed and really started getting anxious about kind of, will I ever walk again? Will I ever be healthy again? And my father gave me a book. It's called wherever you go, there you are by Dr. Jon Kabat Zinn. Wonderful book. Highly recommend it. And the first line said, whatever's happened to you, it's already happened. The only thing that matters is now what? As if this path opened up and there was choice. Right? You brought that up, that happiness is a choice. I had choice. I wasn't stuck. And so I began reading about mindfulness and learning about mindfulness and trying to practice. And eventually, a couple years later, it led me to Thailand, to this monastery. And I was so excited when I got there because I, you know, it was my first time really out of the country. And it was these real monks and real meditation cushions. And I was like, I'm really going to meditate. I'm really going to do this. And so I sat down to practice at this meditation retreat, and the monks gave me an instruction to just feel my breath going in and out of my nose so you can try it with me. And they said, this is how you're going to train your attention. All we want you to do is just feel your breath. You know, for 16 hours a day, you sit and you breathe. And so I started. And to my surprise and my frustration, no matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't stay present with my breath. My mind kept wandering off to the future, to the past, to fears, to hopes, to dreams. But it just wasn't present. And I really started to judge myself, right? I was like, what's wrong with you? You're terrible at this. You're a fake. Why are you even here? Luckily, a monk arrived who spoke English and could really go dive into the practice with me. And as I shared with him my struggle and my frustration and how my mind kept wandering and how I kept judging and beating myself up, he looked at me and he said, oh, dear, you're not practicing mindfulness. You're practicing judgment, impatience, frustration. And that's when he said these five words. He said, what you practice grows stronger. He said, if you're meditating with judgment, you're growing judgment that the essence of mindfulness is not just about paying attention, which is what we all hear right be here now. It's about how you pay attention with this attitude of kindness. And so he helped me understand that mindfulness is actually paying attention with kindness. And as I started to practice this kind attention, everything changed. So when I would feel the pain in my body, which of course it was still there, instead of hating my pain or being angry at my pain, I would say, oh, sweetheart, ouch, you're in pain. Or when I'd miss my mom and my dad because I had been away for three months and it was my first time away, instead of saying, oh, you're such a baby, I would say, oh, oh sweetheart, you miss your mom. And so there was these small shifts and by the end of the time that I was there, I was there for a few months. As we were talking about before, there was a happiness, a contentment that I'd never felt before. And even though my life hadn't changed in the outside, there was this, as you said, this kind of interior shift where my internal landscape had shifted. And that's what led to the happiness and the sense of peace.

So beautifully shared, Shauna. So beautifully shared. I last year did a 10 day Vipassana meditation retreat. And you know, it is amazing when you can actually witness and experience for yourself the wisdom around, you know, how cloudy our mind is and how when things settle truly, right when all of the murkiness in which we are living, when that really settles and that clarity and that light and the broader energy in the universe that you can start to kind of just connect with and be with.

I love that you brought in this word clarity because the word mindfulness means to see things clearly.

Yes.

And as we start to see clearly, we start to make wiser choices and that's what really leads to happiness. Right. That sense of agency around really living our best lives. And I think, I really love that you said happiness is a choice. And I think it stems from all these little choices, not the big choices. No, it's the in between moments that we don't realize impact our lives. I'm thinking of a story that has really touched me and really impacted me. There is a high ranking officer who had a lot of anger issues, was not very happy and he was referred to the mindfulness program to kind of learn how to manage his anger. And he didn't really want to be there at first, but he set a really clear intention. And I know intention is important in the work, you all do with happiness. He set this clear intention. He said, I want to manage my anger because not only is it leaking out at work, it's really hurting us at home, my wife and my kids. And this is important to me. So he really dedicated himself to learning these practices that you and I will be talking about. And about a month into the course, he was at the grocery store, and he had this cart full of groceries. And he was just about to get in line to check out when this elderly woman holding this young baby girl stepped right in front of him. And he was kind of mad, like, he was like, you just cut in front of me. And he was about to say something, but he remembered his intention. He took a breath, and he calmed down. But then the woman and this young checkout clerk start, like, cooing and ahhing over the baby girl, like, oh, she's so cute. Oh, my God. And all of a sudden, the woman hands the checkout clerk the baby girl for a hug. And he almost explodes in anger. He's like, what are you doing? Is this a nursery? But luckily, he stayed calm. He remembered his intention. He took a breath, and he was able to manage his anger. An instant later, the little girl is back in the arms of the woman. They walk out the door. And as the young checkout clerk was ringing him up, he said to her, that little girl was pretty cute. And she looked up and she said, really? That's my daughter. And then she said, my husband died a few months ago, and I had to go back to work. So my mom brings her through my lane every day for a hug. And you can just feel in that moment how grateful he was that he hadn't reacted in anger and how grateful he was that he had that made that choice to pause.

Yes, the powerful pause.

And I think that's what these practices give us and how they lead us to happiness is that they put us back in choice. And in that space between kind of the stimulus and our reaction in that space is really our growth and our freedom and our happiness.

You know, Shauna, you mentioned. And I love this. I'm actually going to write this down and keep this with me. You know, when you practice, your practice grows stronger. I really love that I've not had the opportunity as yet to. To take a time to go to a retreat. And I'd spoken to our previous guest, Manish Chopra, about doing a vipassana meditation. So what I'm actually in the process of doing is I'm actually doing redoing the rewire program that Ashish has pulled together. And the reason why I share that is I've gone through challenges in the last couple weeks around anxiety with my family at home and my sister and my parents. And then at work, I'm going through some challenges in terms of my own resilience and, like, trying to develop that growth mindset. And the reason why I'm sharing that is because I am doing my part to daily, almost practice every morning, every afternoon, every evening, the breathing that comes with it, the jotting down and keeping things front and center for me. And I'm noticing as the week goes on, I notice that I feel more natural, and it comes more natural. And in short, today I was dropping my wife off to the station, and she was, like, really frustrated. I was like, you know, I had a really bad day two days ago, and I was like, you know what? It's going to be okay. Like, just give it a day. Today's gonna be great no matter what. And so I share that again, because the practices that we do not only change us, but it also has the opportunity and the power to change others around us. And that's part maybe not why we do it, but why we seek to do it. And I really. On the back of that, as we were prepping the conversation, Ashish mentioned your book and over 30 practices you have in there. And so, Sean, I would love to switch gears. And when it comes to mindfulness in your book, you've developed so many beautiful and amazing practices around mindfulness, around compassion, around growing the good that can help our brains rewire for us to be happier. And what I'd love to do is just delve into one of those or two of those and with each of you. So the first one that comes to mind, Shauna, is mindfulness. And, you know, you developed the first scientifically based model that highlighted three key elements of mindfulness. Intention, attention, and attitude. Our listeners, I'm sure, would love to understand this model. And how do you personally put it into practice?

Yeah, great. Well, first, I love what you shared about your wife and your ability through your own practice to support her. Right. That it was out of your being able to regulate your own emotions that you were there for her. And I think the point that you're making is that we're never just practicing for ourselves, that everything we do ripples out into the world.

And.

And so there's this beautiful kind of deepening understanding of interconnection with all of these practices.

Exactly.

So on to what mindfulness is. Yes. I and my colleagues developed the first kind of science based model of mindfulness about almost 20 years ago now. And the reason being is that mindfulness is, although it seems relatively simple, it's quite nuanced. And to really receive the transformational power of this process practice, it's important to really understand the three key elements. So the first element is your intention. And your intention is really, why am I paying attention, why am I practicing? Why am I being present? And your intention is what sets the stage for kind of your compass, right? It really sets the compass of your heart. It says, this is the direction I want to head. This is what is important to me. And here's what's interesting about our intentions. They're not just vague mystical concepts. Intentions are neurochemicals. When I set an intention, it releases dopamine, which is the neuromodulator of motivation. And dopamine is what turns on my learning centers, gives me energy. It kind of sets in motion this whole cascade of neurochemistry that helps me reach my goal. So it's really important when I sit down to practice meditation each morning, that I know why I'm doing it. I'm practicing because I want to be more calm, or like Ashish said, I want to be able to see things more clearly, or I want to be able to bring more grace and more happiness into my family or with my wife or into my workplace. And so to really know your intention, have it be meaningful. So that's the first part is just knowing why am I paying attention? The second part, of course, is your attention. And this really, I believe, is your most valuable resource. It's not money. We all know that. It's also not time. If your mind is wandering all the time, it doesn't matter, right? It's really about your attention. So your attention is your most valuable resource. And we can train it. It's a muscle. As you're listening right now, I'm sure many of you have noticed that your mind has already wandered off. The mind wanders 47% of the time on average. So that's about half of our life that our mind is just flitting into the past or the future. It's all over the place. We can learn to train our attention to actually stabilize and focus our presence in this moment. And so part of mindfulness is literally just this training of attention, as I shared in my experience at the monastery. And then the final part is your attitude. And this is what I was referring to, your attitude of kindness, that as we pay attention with kindness, it releases Oxytocin and serotonin. It creates an environment of. Of safety and kind of the ability to kind of see things clearly. Because what we typically do when we pay attention is we shame and judge ourselves. I'm not good enough. I'm not doing this right. What I said was stupid. I'm. We are always judging. And when we shame and judge ourselves, it shuts down the learning centers of the brain. It literally keeps us stuck in the very behaviors that we are ashamed of or trying to change. And so this kind of really amazing antidote is self compassion, is an attitude of kindness. When I make a mistake instead of beating myself up, which doesn't work. If it worked, I might say, you know, go ahead and do it. It just doesn't work. The key is a compassionate mindset, not shame. The key is to see it clearly, honestly, with kindness. So these are the three key elements of mindfulness. Your intention, your attention, your attitude. We call them iaa.

It is so beautiful. Beautifully put, Shauna. And I'm sure you've been following. I can't wait for. Especially on the first one on intention, the new book next year that James Doherty is releasing. It's called Mind Magic. Dear friends, for the listeners, the neuroscience of manifestation and how it changes everything. It's this notion of how important intention is. Shauna, you highlighted how our brain, Right, the chemical cocktails. We are unbelievable. We are all walking pharmacies. We can create through our thoughts and what we put attention to and what we set an intention for. You know, the neurochemistry that supports many of the emotions that we want. What I also love around this whole, you know, space is how at its core, if you look at the core teachings of Buddhism and if we think about the core teachings of, you know, learnings from quantum mechanics around our nature of energy spaces, right? So we can think about bodies and molecules, but deeper down, as we even think about us as being energy, the power of what that intention can create, especially if that intention is in the service of something bigger. It's not about what I want, but what I want to create. You know, so that was the other part of it when I first read the Power of Intention, you know, because John Kibat Zinn, who you mentioned I love, you know, he had talked about attention, he had talked about the attitudes. But intention was really, for me, a very unique. What you put right in front of that, like, before you even start to pay attention and before you even start to release judgment. What's your why? What is your intention?

Yeah. And I think what's so powerful about that is our brain and nervous system aren't stupid. So you can't just kind of fake an intention. You can't just say, like, oh, this is my spiritual intention. It has to come from your heart. Your brain and nervous system need to feel like you actually care about this. So when you set an intention, it's really your own. It's very personal. And it's almost like in that way, you're able to engage the universal, but it has to come from your own clarity, your own heart and your own wisdom.

Yeah. True alignment. Mind, body, spirit. Right. Really aligned together, and then it's possible. Otherwise we just live into that coherence. And that's what we feel when we meditate.

Exactly. Because if you think about it, you're kind of going through life at this speed and on automatic pilot and what meditation does. And I really think of meditation, you know, we've been throwing around the words mindfulness meditation. So mindfulness is really the way of being. Right. It's a way of living your life. And meditation is the exercise. It's the mental fitness training. Right. We all know that physical fitness is good for us, but how many of us spend the same amount of time in our mental fitness? So meditation and the different practices are these kind of trainings. And then mindfulness is this way of being. And it's so wonderful as we're going on our lives through automatic pilot, to kind of wake up and to step off that treadmill and to remember our intention. Right. Our intentions bring us back to presence. And the reason I meditate is not because meditation is so great, but it's because it strengthens my ability throughout the day to come back, to remember, to begin again.

Exactly. Beautiful. Beautiful. Shauna, let's switch gears for a bit. We can have a whole episode on as we were talking earlier on each one of the three areas, but let's switch gears a bit and let's talk a little bit around compassion. And in particular, you know, one of the roadblocks I see most often especially, I mean, this is true for so many, but especially for high achievers who've kind of gotten there, they speak to themselves worse than they would ever speak to anybody else. And they almost think about self compassion as a weakness.

Yes.

Right. No, no, no. If I don't push myself, I won't get there. It's a weakness. I don't want to be weak. Talk to us about the five roadblocks to self compassion. Right. Those things that hold people back and how you Help people understand that it's actually the biggest strength.

Yeah. This is such an important conversation and I think you're absolutely right. Most of the people I work with, especially the high achieving leaders and you know that when I mention self compassion, they kind of, you see their eyes glaze over, they kind of roll their eyes like, oh no, here she goes. And so I want to lead with the science behind it because it's really fascinating that paradoxically, I know it doesn't seem like self compassion is a strength, but paradoxically, self compassion, when you look at the data, self compassionate people are more effective at sticking to their diets, are better at exercising, they follow through more, they are rated. This is interesting. Another roadblock is people think they'll be selfish. They'll be like self indulgent and selfish. That people who rate themselves as more self compassionate. Right. They're less harsh and mean to themselves. When you ask their co workers, their siblings, their parents, their lovers, their spouses, they're also rated as more generous and more compassionate that being compassionate to yourself actually again, it's what you practice grows stronger. It carves out these neural pathways of kindness and then you're able to bring them to other people. So what I usually do when I'm working, you know, with people who are afraid to practice self compassion is I show them the data, the science and explain that yes, pushing yourself works in the short term, but you will burn out. And when you look at the trajectory of people who are kind to themselves, are compassionate to themselves, they're more successful, they're healthier, they're happier, they have better relationships, it does not hurt the bottom line on any level.

Yeah. You know, on the back of that this is a practice at the end of your book, but I think it was really this practice that is all about self compassion and that is the practice of. Good morning Shauna. I love you. Talk to us about this practice because I absolutely love that.

Hi friends. We hope you're enjoying the tips discussed in this episode. If you're on the career treadmill, seeking the next promotion, experiencing stress and anxiety, or reach the top of your career and wondering if the sacrifices to get there were worth it. Ashish and I have been there and we're ready to support you. The happiness squad rewire program is designed to integrate the nine hardwired for happiness practices into your day. Within five minutes form proven habits to experience more success, resilience, satisfaction and creativity. You won't be alone in your journey. Check out the rewire link in the show notes. Make Happiness, your competitive edge to achieve your goals. Now back to the episode.

Thank you. Well, it's interesting because, you know, the name is a little soft. And in fact, when I published the book, you know, I'm a scientist, I'm a professor. I've been a professor for over 20 years. They said, well, we should really lead with the science. And yet this practice was so personally transformational for me that I decided to lead with good morning, I love you.

Well done.

I will say we do have a second publication that came out in London and in Europe that's called rewire your mind. And it's the exact same book. So we do have the same book now for people who maybe don't want good morning, I love you out on their coffee table. But I want to tell you the power of the practice, because no matter which title you like, this practice is for everyone. So it's interesting because as I shared at the monastery, the monk really emphasized the importance of kindness and kind attention. And yet it is hard to be kind to yourself. And so even though I knew that back when I was 20 years old, I still continued this kind of internal critic, right, the judgments. And it really became clear when I was going through my divorce. It was a very difficult time. Our son was only three years old. So I was feeling tremendous shame and guilt and fear, you know, maybe I was ruining him in addition to my own. And I remember kind of waking up with this pit of just self judgment every day. You're terrible. How could you do this? Like you're a therapist and a meditation teacher and you can't even make your marriage work. And luckily, one of my teachers suggested or reminded me to start practicing self compassion. And she said, I want you just to say I love you every day when you get up. She said, I think, you know, there's, instead of all that harshness, just say, I love you. And I looked at her like she was crazy. I was like, there's no way I'm gonna say I love you to myself. I don't feel love for myself. And I do really believe in authenticity. So I said, I can't do that. And she said, fine, but I want you to try to be kind, right? You can still be authentic, to be kind. Can you just say good morning to yourself? And I thought, you know, yeah, that feels okay. I can still say good morning. And she said, I want you to put your hand on your heart when you do it because it releases oxytocin. And oxytocin, as I mentioned before, is this kind of safety love hormone. And so the next morning, I woke up, put my hand on my heart, took a breath, and said, good morning, Shauna. And it was kind of nice, right? Instead of the judgment, the fear, the anxiety, I just took a moment to greet myself with kindness. And as I continued practicing, there was some changes, right? A little more softness, a little less judgment. And a couple months into practicing, it was my birthday, and my son was with his father at a long planned family reunion that I wasn't going to. And so I decided to go to a place called esalen in big sur, California. I was all alone. It was my first birthday in my life. I think that I've been completely alone. And I woke up early before sunrise, and I went down. They have these mineral hot springs over the ocean that are beautiful. And I slid into the mineral hot springs, and I was about to do my good morning practice, when all of a sudden, this image of my grandmother came to me. And my nana was really my person she is who taught me unconditional love. And before I knew it, I said, good morning. I love you, Shauna. Happy birthday. And it was as if the dam around my heart burst, you know, and my nana's love came in my mother's love, my own self love. And I think it was the first time in my adult life that I had really felt kindness towards myself, like, compassion towards myself, like, oh, sweetheart, this is hard, and you're scared and you're lonely, and I'm here and I'm on your team. And, you know, I wish I could tell you every day since then has been this bubble of self love, and I've never felt shame or criticism again. And that's not true, right? Of course I'm human. But what did happen is that pathway got established, and I've been growing it every day. And it's really kind of rippled out into the world in this powerful way where when I wake up and I say, good morning, I love you, to myself. I now, you know, send it to my son and to my parents and to my sister and to clients I'm working with and to my students and whoever really pops into my mind. You know, one day I remember hearing the garbage truck outside, and I was lying that I was like, oh, good morning. I love you. May you have a peaceful day. And what's so beautiful is it starts your day with this practice of kindness and compassion. And, you know, the morning is such a powerful time because we're in this alpha theta state. So the mind is very trainable. It's very suggestible. And so if we wake up and we're anxious or we're judgmental, or we're looking at our phone or we're looking at the news, it really impacts the whole trajectory of our day because it's imprinting in the mind when it's very trainable. So this practice is quite powerful to do every morning and I really encourage everyone to try it at whatever level you're ready to begin, even if it's just placing your hand on your heart each morning.

You know, Shauna, you and I can talk about this all day long. And there are still so many people who kind of, you know, they just feel like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I heard the science, I heard the woo, woo. Like, you know, I love you. Like, what are you talking about? And there's still there is this doubt. And I will share this with you. Friends, I was last week at this amazing program. I was a keynote for a program that McKinsey runs. I still say we, even though it's been a year since I left that amazing organization. It's called awe. It's all around helping women executives, you know, support them. It's a two year program that we take women executives, senior women executives, and we support them, we build a community and it's all around development to help them right get to their next levels. And so I was in this room with 30 women executives and I talked about self compassion. And we did the exercise that I learned from Dr. Neff, Dr. Kristin Neff, around self compassion. And so for this moment, you know, I just add this to you, this is such an important practice. Sometimes hearing is not enough. You need to experience it. And so in this moment, dear friends, as long as you're not driving and you're just sitting or you're in a safe place, just try what Shauna mentioned. Place your hands just on your heart right now and just do this for yourself. Right? Don't just hear it, just say it, I love you. And maybe even say it a couple of times and just notice what is shifting in your body. Feel the oxytocin and the effects of that and incorporate it. In our days, there's so many times when we find ourselves struggling and shouting at ourselves in words that we never say to anybody else in that moment. Instead, try self compassion and see what emerges.

Yeah. And I would even invite, sometimes it's too big a step to say I love you. And so what I really encourage people to do is even just saying, sweetheart, this is hard or I'm scared right now that the self compassion practice. And Kristin Neff is a really dear friend and colleague that the self compassion practice is really about learning how to name with mindfulness what you're feeling and then bring kindness to it. So to name I'm scared, or I'm angry, or I'm frustrated, or I feel alone. And when we name our emotions, what's so fascinating is it actually calms down our physiology. There's a wonderful study at UCLA by Dr. Creswell and his colleagues that show that just naming our emotions calms the physiology. So the first step of self compassion is just naming I'm scared. The second step is to bring kindness to ourselves, right? To really bring the same care we would bring to a dear friend to ourselves. And then the third step, which is just so powerful, is to think of all the other people right now in this moment who maybe are scared or lonely, and to offer your compassion to them. So as you exhale, you send it out to anyone who's struggling. And then you inhale and you breathe in that same compassion for yourself. And so it's this wonderful practice, really getting back to what Anil was saying of how it ripples out. And what that does is it empowers you. Because you realize I'm not the only one who just yelled at my kid or who feels scared about the board meeting or whatever it is. And there's this common humanity.

There's so much as I listen to you both and I'm digesting, that comes to mind. And I just want to share a couple thoughts. One is when I wake up in the morning, my wife sleeping next to me. I do say, today's gonna be an amazing day. And I say it out loud, not too loud, because, you know, she's still asleep. But I do notice days when I do that, and I do say it out loud, she hears it. And it does register for her too, but it definitely registers for me versus when I say it in my head. And I was talking to a colleague today and I said, you know, it's funny when we want to shout out a vulgarity, we have no issue to shout out something vulgar out loud at the top of our lungs, but when it's the opposite, something that's compassionate, something that's kind, something that's loving, it's almost difficult for us to say that. And I agree with you both. It's like taking those tiny steps, set that intention today. How am I going to be today? And even if you want to do it in the privacy of the bathroom, in the mirror, or if you want to just go off to the side and just. But just saying it out loud has a power effect. You know, how do I want to be today? Today I want to be curious. Today I want to be kind. And I'll. I'll be open with both of you. Walking to the car after work today, I was like, you know, I didn't get that done the way I wanted it to. And, you know, I'm still fall behind on that. And I was like, you know, it's like, whoa, pause. I'm like, you're awesome. So that's my translation for it. And I share that because by doing that, I immediately paused myself. And all that time that I would have lost going into that rabbit hole of negativity, I immediately just paused myself. And I love Ashish. You say it in one of our videos, right? That powerful pause. And Shauna, you mentioned it earlier. You just almost what am I feeling?

Ah.

And when that emotion passes, that wisdom remains. And so it's just an invitation to our listeners, as you both have said, just, you know, find your own way, step by step, to say that positive emotion out loud or give that name to that feeling, positive or negative out loud. And it's okay. You know, we learned how to use vulgarity. We can also rewire our minds to speak kindly both to ourselves and to others. You know, Shauna, I just want to switch gears, and this is something that I'm also trying to understand better. You know, in one of your sections, you talk about growth, growing the good in ourselves. And you share seven practices. Again, not enough time probably to go through each. But in one of those practices, you talk about seeing the good in others. So on the back of just talking about how we see the good in ourselves, could you please describe what you mean by seeing the good in others?

I'm so glad you brought this up. It's really one of the most important practices is we tend towards the negative. We have something that's called the negativity bias. And so we're constantly scanning our environment for what's wrong or what's not working or what's not good enough. And we also do that in other people. We're looking for what's not good in them. And so I invite a practice where you actively look for the good and then share it. That what's so fascinating is appreciation and gratitude are the fastest ways to change someone else's neurochemistry that we all know practicing gratitude for ourselves is good. So, you know, there's lots of research Showing that if you have a gratitude journal, it's really effective every night to write down what you're grateful for. But what's so interesting is this is new research that they did at Stanford is that receiving gratitude actually has like a 3x times the impact on people's physiology in a positive way. Now, we can't go around getting gratitude all the time, right? That, that doesn't work. But we do have the power to offer it, to see the good in other people, to appreciate them. And so this practice of really seeing the good in others and expressing it. And I'll share just one last story because it moved me so much of the power of this. There was an 8th grade math teacher and she was having a really hard day with her students. They were a little out of control, as 8th graders can be. And she said, you know what? Forget it, we're not going to learn math today. I want you to sit down, be quiet. Everyone write their first name on a piece of paper. And then you just pass the paper. And each student wrote down one thing that they appreciated about that person. You know, I love your smile. I think you're funny. I, you know, whatever. So they wrote it all down. At the end of the year, she passed out. So you got your name with all the wonderful things about you that everyone else loved. About 10 years later, unfortunately, one of the those 8th graders had been killed at war and they were having a memorial for him. And so everyone gathered. It was a small town, it was close class. All of Those, you know, eighth graders, now older, in their 20s, came. And at the memorial, they said that the two things that they found with him were his identification tags and then this folded piece of paper with his name and all of his best qualities, that he had kept it with him that entire time. And as they shared that, some of the other students started coming forward. One woman said, I have it framed on my desk to remind me of my goodness. And another person said, I have it still on my bedside table. And another person said, I have it in my journal. And that story so impacts me because we don't realize the impact we have on each other. And that by seeing the good and reminding each other of our goodness. Right? Because of course, we all make mistakes. But if we shame each other again, it shuts down the learning centers of the brain. If we can remind each other of our goodness, it calls it forward. And so it's one of my favorite practices. And I really encourage you to practice all of us.

You know, Shauna, gratitude is one of My favorite ones, too, in fact, it was the practice that I, even before mindfulness and meditation as a practice, even before all of that, in my darkest, when I was dealing with anxiety, when I was dealing with the practice, that really made a big difference for me was gratitude. And I could literally see how 24 years of training as a consultant to be able to walk in and be able to find problems. Right. And just be able to zero in on that. It's really effective. Right? If you're a consultant, you walk in, you have two weeks to diagnose a whole business, to be able to exactly see where the issues are. Amazingly powerful. You're looking at a page and you can find the one word that is misspelled because it kind of speaks to are you being professional or not really powerful, but also the cause of so much suffering because you always notice that everywhere. And so as I started, and it was for me, gratitude journals that really I could notice how my focus shifted to seeing the good, seeing the positive, so much, you know, and really training ourselves. In fact, I had a session yesterday with folks at Tillamook where we talked about this practice of just noticing all the good. In fact, I'm on a mission, Shauna. At every workplace, you know, every workplace, there are status reports that get written every week, if not every other week. I'm on a mission to add one box to the four box, six box, eight box, whatever people do, which is a box on gratitude. Who are we grateful for? Who do we want to recognize? And not just write them. Call them.

Yes.

And tell them.

And it will shift. I mean, what corporations need to understand is it'll shift the productivity, the creativity, the teamwork. It has such a powerful impact. And I think the good news for you, ashish, is those 24 years of training were not wasted because your ability to focus and pay attention. Right. You have a really superpower, and now you're just shifting your intention so that that focus, that power is towards gratitude. And that's the beauty of this, is that, you know, it's never too late, that we can begin again in any moment. And that's really the. I think why neuroplasticity is such a hopeful message is that we can carve out new pathways, we can grow these resources at any age.

Right.

Even into your 90s, we see neurogenesis, the growth of new neurons.

Yes, Anil, I know Shauna has to go in five minutes. We could go on and on. So bring us home. I am watching the clock for you, Shauna.

No worries. But I Am gonna reflect on one piece. Cause this I feel is important. You know, we run a weekly poll, Shauna, on our Happiness Squad LinkedIn page. And last week I asked the audience of the four micro practices below, which would you like to learn more about? And I'm going to be open with both of you. The fourth option on there was gratitude letters. It received zero votes. My hope is following this conversation that our listeners will go, is that something that maybe we should give a try to? So the next time we run the poll, I'm hoping gratitude letters will get a vote or two. Nonetheless, we're still going to share that practice on LinkedIn in case folks are keen to understand what a gratitude letter can be and what difference it can make make in the life of your own self or those around you. So, Shawna, Rapid Fire, not meant to be difficult. So just let me know. What is the song you love to listen to when you're wanting to turn that frown upside down?

There's a song by Taj Mahal called Further on down the Road. I'll accompany you. And it's a love song and it's one of the first songs my husband sang to me. And I love that. It's. It's just about being on each other's team. And it's really. I think what I've learned to do for myself is learn to be on my own team. But his love has really helped me do that. So. Yeah.

Thank you.

Number two. I know you've read a number of books, but if there was one book you could take with you anywhere, what book would that be?

Loving Kindness by Sharon Salzberg. That book is one of those books.

It.

You start radiating kindness as you're reading it. You start. There's the joy that pours out of you and a compassion. I make all of my graduate students read it. And halfway through the semester, all of a sudden, they're like, smiling in class. They're helping each other, and I'm like, what's happening? And then I realize, oh, they're. They're reading Loving Kindness.

Awesome.

Two more. If there was one activity that you could do that brings you joy right now, what. What activity would that be?

Dancing. Always.

Oh, nice, nice. And then the last question. Your favorite meal, your comfort food, the one thing you cannot live without and would love to have right now if you could.

O. It depends. It's so early in the morning that normally it would be hazelnut gelato, which is my absolute favorite thing in the whole.

I love that. I love that too. Sh. Yes.

But since it's earlier in the day, I would say seared wild salmon is my other absolute favorite food, so.

Oh, nice. Well, you know, I'm sure it's hazelnut gelato time somewhere in the world, so feel free if you wanted to cheat.

Definitely in Italy.

Yes, that's true. Sha, I just want to say it's been an absolute pleasure to meet you, to hear you, to speak with you. Thank you so much with this interaction with you and Ashish. I've taken away so many things and I hope our listeners have as well. So thank you kindly for your time and I know we'd love to have you back and we will find a way to do that.

Shauna, thank you. Such a joy. And maybe when you're ready, I know you mentioned you're actually creating an online course around the book. Maybe when it's time to release that we have you back and share some more around that with our listeners. But it was such a joy. It's such a delight to meet somebody else who's walking the same path as us. And I always say, you know, we are living in a world where I feel that there is hundred, two, hundred thousand, I guess now light warriors fighting an army of darkness, you know, because there is so much going on in the world and there's so many people who are, you know, hardwired for that. Scarcity, fear. What's happening? I think, friends, we don't have a shot at controlling the world out there, but if we individually start to master our inner worlds, that effect ripples and that is where the change can begin to actually do bring a sense of calmness out there. But we have to redirect it. Shauna's book is amazing. Pick a copy of that. Good morning. I love you. Thank you for being on the show.

Thank you so much. And I love what you just said is that it really starts at the individual level. And one project that I'm so excited about that I do want to share with you is my new children's book. And this is a book about teaching children self compassion, planting these seeds of kindness, hardwiring these resources into our children so that they ripple out into the world. And what we know from neuroscience is that between the ages of 0 and 9, our brains are sponges. We can receive, we can learn how to ride a bike or speak a language, and then it stays with us for our whole life. And so why aren't we training our children in self compassion, in mindfulness and kindness? So I'm very excited about the new children's book. It's called Good Morning, I Love youe, Violet. And if you have a child, get it for them. If you don't, donate it to a library or children's hospital that we need to really plant these seeds of kindness in our children.

I'm gonna buy three books and I'm actually going to I'm speaking to two schools next week and I'm gonna take a copy of that and leave it there for them.

Shana Amazing. Thank you. Thank you both so much. This was so fun.

Take care. Bye.

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