Gamification and Positive Psychology with Naomi Redel

The collaborative emotional intelligence. One of the problem is that we bond around the negative, right? If there is an accident, imagine there is a big trauma going on. We see it all over the news. We see graphic picture of people that has been hurt. We feel connected, right? We feel connected to the trauma that they are going. We empathize with them. Or if we go into the office and we drink a cup of coffee and everybody's chatting how terrible the boss is, we are all connected around that, right? And this is the natural way people connect around traumas, around negativity. And if somebody very positive like me, I had that instances, a lot comes in and suddenly you are the weird one.

Hey there friends. Welcome to Happiness Squad. This is the podcast dedicated to helping you unlock your full potential by mastering the art and science of happiness. We bring on the best leading experts on these topics to help you unlock your true potential and live with more joy, health, love and meaning in your life. Your host is no other than a star combo of Ashish Katari and Anil Ramjiani who are both on a mission to provide you with an unfair advantage to be the masters of your experience and leaders in your industry. Get ready to be moved, challenged and enlightened on this podcast. It may change your life. Thanks for being here and joining the squad.

Hey Happiness Squad, it's great to have you back back. You know, positivity can play a key role as individuals or within collaborative environments. From personal experience, this positivity could be received differently depending on the team makeup based on cultural differences, genders, or even what language you're speaking. What if I were to tell you that an unlock to drive collaborative emotional intelligence could be through gamification? Well, today's guest has achieved just that. In fact, just meeting her, I would love to bottle her up, her energy, her joy and share it with the world. Her name is Naomi Riddell. Naomi is a gamification strategist who's helping coaching and consulting companies harness collaborative emotional intelligence to increase their impact within clients organizations by designing and implementing gamified interactive systems. Naomi worked years as an innovation marketing consultant with leading Israeli companies and she felt firsthand the frustration of just watching brilliant strategies flounder in C suite pockets, just unable to have that information trickle down and make a true impact, whether it be due to lack of time, motivation or the right tools to bring them to life. Naomi has to her credit the creation of the very first board game in positive psychology called Positive Turn, which is recommended by the via Institute of Character Strength and was chosen as an innovation for companies in France. Her goal is to make the practice of happiness easy and accessible anywhere and anytime. Her innovative work and designing gamification has actually enabled 5x the willingness of her clients to answer and provide in depth insights and information. This conversation unlocks so much for Ashish and I, and I want to ensure that you all get to hear how Naomi explores the value of collective emotional intelligence and how we can enable this either as an individual or as a team, and how it can unlock so many benefits for introverts and extroverts. So, hey, let's get started. Please join Ashish and I as we welcome Naomi to the Happiness Squad. Hey, Happiness Squad listeners, we're with Ashish and Naomi. Good afternoon, good morning. How are you all doing?

I am awesome. I'm doing great. Anil, it was so great to see you earlier this week, my friend. It was such a treat to have you at our homes in Boulder and now you're sitting in Amsterdam. But I'm doing fantastic. It's Friday sunny and it's going to be in the 50s yet in Boulder today, so no complaints.

That's a recovery. That's a recovery from the minus digits. It was much colder in Colorado versus Naomi, you're in Israel right now. What's the temperature like there?

In one hour it will be dark all over the other side of, you know, the world.

The world. Yeah. No, truly, truly grateful to be with the two of you today. Hey, Ashish, why don't you take us away?

Yeah, look, you know, I just want to start, Naomi. I mean, the people, you know, our listeners are going to experience the joy, the sunshine, the light that emanates through you. Even though it's an audio podcast, I think they're going to feel it. And, you know, I couldn't think of a better guest than you to have here because you exude happiness and it doesn't matter the words you use. I think just hearing you and hearing the joy and the laughter and the life that flows through you, I think is going to permeate all the listeners. But let me just start. Yeah. Oh, my God. You are like this. I can't even describe it. You're like this bundle of energy and the sunshine. In fact, I will share this. We have a community around Happiness Squad and we had the launch of it in a couple of weeks back. And for all those who are listening, you can go to community.happinesssquad.com to find out. But the kickoff for that community was at 5pm and I think it was like 2am in Israel. And Naomi came on and Naomi had the same amount of energy that I think I have at like 10 o' clock with four cups of coffee. And I was like, oh my God, this is so amazing. So now it's such a joy to.

Have you, joy to be here. Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

So share with our listeners, Naomi, your secret of what brings you happiness in your life. What makes this life that flows through you give so much power?

Yeah, well, it's. It's a complex question, but I will give you one, one hint and is in the next room to hear. And my son and my daughter.

Ah, love it.

Yeah. And. And I can tell you that just two days ago, I've been to a show of my son, he's a musician and we had a lot of deliberation about whether he's going to take pursue that career or not pursue that career. During COVID we sat in the house and we were deliberating. So it was such a joy to watch him on stage with this huge guitar sitting he himself with the guitar and all the room is quiet waiting to hear his playing.

Wow.

And me being a very, very good Jewish mom, I recorded everything. So now, of course. Right. So now I can replay it and enjoy this joy over and over and over again. And that's called in the positive psychology, a happiness booster.

I love it. Recording the moment.

And not only in the mind.

Exactly. And to be able to replay it and savor it. Love it. So, dear friends, think about this. When you're out in nature and you see something magical or you are doing something that truly fills you with that joy, capture it so that it can be a memory, it can be a tool for you to be able to use. Even in times when we are, you know, when we might be struggling or things might not look so bright, that little boost of just hearing that for Naomi, it's her son's guitar recital play playing for you, it might be something else. Thank you. Thank you.

I want to add to that that this is a way to actually promote positive emotion immediately. Because your association with that moment is. Is joy, is positive, is accomplishment, is a sense of family. Right.

Beautiful.

No, I was just gonna say, you know, I just got married last October, Naomi. And when you say that, it reminds me of the moment my bride actually walked out. She walked out and the string quartet was playing Can't Help Falling in Love. And that song has so many mixed emotions for me from high school. And so when Anika was walking down with that song playing in the background. It just took my favorite song and the most amazing woman in my life and paired it together. And so I totally agree. Whenever you can take. And I think, Ashish, I was once having a rough day, and you were like, anil, play your favorite song, man, and dance to it. I was like, that's it. That's what I'm gonna play back. So it's beautiful when you can associate the two.

Exactly. Very important, as we know, because we are on a podcast.

Exactly. And, you know, and this is the other. This is the other tip. Right. I think as you shared, Anil, by the way, here that I, you know, I shared with you. We live so much in our heads, but, you know, our somatics, our bodies can be such a source of kind of getting us out of that funk. We find ourselves. You know, I always say this notion, this is the old, you know, everybody says this, just smile. And if you smile, I think you change it. And yes, it is. But you know what? If you dance, pick a tune that you danced to in high school, and if you just dance and move your body, it doesn't matter how sad or down you're feeling or how grim things look, it'll fill you with energy. It'll give you an additional boost of something to help you carry it forward. So, yeah, you know, movement and dance. I think this episode is going to have lots of these tips sprinkled all the way through. Just given the presence we are in. Just the presence that we are in.

I must say, I would like to point out that it's not. I come from a very difficult background, and it's important me to point it out because I, as you, you said I emit a sense of happiness, but it is a sense of happiness that I've built to myself. It's not something I was born with.

So, Naomi, let's actually go there, tell our listeners your story of, you know, one, what you've been through, because I know a little bit about it. But I think our listeners could really benefit because, you know, there is this myth out there of, oh, you know, there are people who are happy. Life is good, and they're happy, and for others, you know, life sucks or I don't have that, so that's not something that is achievable. But your story touched my heart when the first time you told me about the struggles you've had, but how you've kind of built habits to overcome it. So I would love to hear that story, share that story with the listeners and also how you Discovered, you know, in the context of that story. I know positive psychology had a big part to play in that, and I want you to share a little bit of that.

So my life was shaped in a very early age by my. The death of my father. He died in the Six Day War, and I was a year and a half, and my mom was 22, and she had two little children. And that actually painted our life in a survival mode because she had to survive and she had to fight. And there was, at the time, there were no structure in Israel for actually dealing with widows with children. So she almost didn't have money to buy food. So it was. I grew up in a sense of loss, in a sense of deprivation, in a sense of violence and being all the time afraid somebody's gonna hurt me. That was my childhood. And when I grew up and got married, I have decided to bring children. And I said to myself, I am cutting the cord here. I did not want to carry this type of living into my children's lives. And I started going through therapy, traditional therapy psychology, which really was amazing, helped me a lot to deal with the loss. But there was a point there after my daughter was born, and I saw her with my husband playing, and I was sitting outside and I was watching the house, and I was overwhelmed with loss because I did not have that. And I didn't even imagine what it means to grow up with a father. And at that moment, I told to myself, nomi, you have to find something beyond psychology, because the traditional psychology makes you deal with the pain, but it doesn't give you an alternative. And that's a point where you have to take charge on your life and say, okay, what's out there that can bring me joy? What's out there that can pick me from zero, that is functioning, that is knowing to deal with my traumas, to being fulfilled, to being in joy, to being happy. And that's when I started my quest with positive psychology. And it was amazing. Life savior, beautiful.

You know, Naomi, I wanted to highlight a couple of things that you mentioned in your, you know, in what you just said to kind of play it back to our listeners. I think one element that is something that actually is not spoken about at all, right? We speak about it in the fields of psychology and neurosciences and healers, but in 80% of the common population, right? This is not. This insight is not there that we are all passing collective trauma forward. We all, in some shape or form as we grow up from children to adults, inherit trauma, often from our parents growing up, you know, it's natural. It's not like, oh, my God, who's doing that to us? It's just part of life. Right. We do get.

Especially if you're Jewish.

Especially if you're Jewish or Indian or I could just tell on and on and on. Right? Like, yes. So the point is, dear friends, is whether we recognize or not, we are shaped by our experiences and what's passed generationally forward and unconsciously, we pass them on to our children. Okay. As much as I have a friend who I remember when we were growing up, hated his father, didn't want to be anything like him. 20 years forward, he is completely his father. And, you know, it's a little bit like his children are shaped by, you know, it's. We unconsciously do that. Right. So point number one, if we don't.

Stop the change, if we don't make a choice.

Exactly. And that's where so one is. Let's just recognize that that is something that is going through all of us and it is our choice. Which is the second point which, you know, you really highlighted. You made a choice to break the link. It requires an act, it requires an intention. It requires a conscious choice to not just live our past and pass it forward, but choose a different direction. Point number three, therapy, psychology in the past and even today can help you heal, can help you go from negative to zero. It will not. It is not. All of that work is not designed to move you towards joy. You know, in other words, I say all that work can help you heal your mind. But healing spirit is about something different.

I want to also to take it to another twist in the plot. And it's also, we do carry trauma. We do carry, but we have a choice how we look at things.

Yes.

And this is the way that you can really take yourself out and look at it from apart. Like, you see your thoughts, you see all the bundle of chaos running out there. But then you have the tools of positive psychology that teach you to separate and not be totally embedded in them and to think that they are the truth, the only truth is nothing but the truth. Because they are not.

Yeah, they are not. We are not our binds. We are not our bodies. We are much more than that. And this notion of being able to step away and look at it and go into that, by the way, that was the other piece that you highlighted for our listeners. So, number one, recognize, awareness, aware that we pass trauma forward. Second, intention. We have a choice. We can choose to break the link. Third, action. Action was truly learning Learning this field. I didn't discover this field till six years ago, and I completely fell in love. And to many of you who've been listening, as you know, I mean, I dove in. And when I dive into something, I dive in. Fully 525 books later, you know, I think I read everything that I needed. And counting. And counting. But you have to learn. And you have to. When you learn, it's not just about knowing. It's about practicing. Right? It's about truly practicing. And that's what. That's. That's the skill, Right? So we can all break our past. We can be joyful. We can actually create our own lives which are filled with positivity, joy, kindness. But it's practice. We have to practice. We have to show up, we have to consciously build it.

And you know, Ashish, if I may just connect the dots, if you don't mind my.

Please.

So this is exactly the reason why I got into gamification of positive psychology, the practice part of it. Because it's really easy to think about it. Okay. I read a book. Yes, this is a great idea. I am going to be aware. But then the thoughts come in and then my boss is saying something nasty and then my child is complaining, and then I get all these feelings. Oh, my God, what am I gonna do? I read the book or I go look in the Internet and it's not, you know, So I am a true believer in changing the paradigm and moving it from being a science based kind of. I will teach you what right to. Let's practice it. Let's practice it using games. We feel it, we engage in it, we experience it, and then we don't need to be motivated. We are already there. You understand the. The equation?

Yes.

That's what positive is all about.

I think what's. What's fascinating about this. And Ashish, we had a conversation just last night about this, right? You'll. You'll study things about happiness, the science of it, how it works, how it's beneficial. But you know, there are times where it's like, okay, that's great to know, but then how do you take it from knowing to doing to being. And I think on the back of that, Naomi, something that you've alluded to is gamification. And I think what I'd love our listeners to understand is this is not Fortnite. This is not Call of Duty. This is. This is positive psychology, gamification. Could you maybe just describe your work in gamification and give us a bit of background in Terms of what does that mean and what have you been doing?

Okay, so my work is two layered. Okay. So I have mini, digital, mini games which are targeting the practice, the additional knowledge. So if you hear a lecture or you listen to a podcast and you say, oh, that's interesting, but you're not sure if you got it right. So then maybe in the, in the bottom of the podcast you have a game where you can actually check yourself whether you test yourself using the game, you test yourself whether you got what the podcast was all about, you got it right, or you didn't got it right.

Right.

Because it's all about define way in which you actually practice and understand. And one step at a time, you decode how practice means to you. Right? So that's one layer which is always to be there with you whenever you are, wherever you are, with a very simple kind of gamification. That is a mini game, a set of mini games that you can actually simulate situation. You can actually engage with them. Five minutes max, not more than five minutes. So you can do it anywhere you are in trouble. You can just pull your WhatsApp and play instead of go look in the book and start reading and looking for. Where is that notion that I wanted to check? Right? So it makes it more available and more structured. That's one. The second layer is the collaborative emotional intelligence. One of the problem is that we bond around the negative, right? If there is an accident, imagine there is a big trauma going on. We see it all over the news. We see graphic picture of people that has been hurt. We feel connected, right? We feel connected to the trauma that they are going with. We empathize with them.

Yes.

Or if we go into the office and we drink a cup of coffee and everybody's chatting how terrible the boss is. We are all connected around that, right? And this is the natural way people connect around traumas, around negativity. And if somebody very positive like me, I had that instances a lot comes in and suddenly you're the weird one. Why are you so positive? Why are you slow? People are saying to me, why are you smiling? Yes. Did you get that, Ashish?

I agree with that.

You know, I don't anymore because like, it's funny, like I get a different question, right? Every time. Everybody is. I actually get, you know, also, I'm from Boulder, right? So I usually get the question, what are you on? What are you high on?

I'm like, I want that, right?

I want that. I want that. What are you high on? And I say, I'm High on life.

Exactly.

I'm high on life. So anyway, you know, it's funny, but. No, I totally understand it, right? Because oftentimes most people who interact with me, when the first time I meet them, they ask me, how are you? And I genuinely feel that way. Every, every day, I feel awesome. So I'm like, how are you? I said, I'm awesome. And they're like, why are you awesome? Are you really awesome? No, you're not.

You're not really?

I'm like, no, I really am awesome. Like, why aren't you not awesome?

It's difficult for them to connect with the positive.

Yes.

And natural. Because the negative is really our impulse.

Well, it is an impulse. And our brains, you know, if you look at neuroscience, our brains do have a negative bias, because for 20,000 years, while we were out in the wild, it's that negativity bias that actually protected us and actually helped us survive. Because the negative out there were the tigers, right? And the lions that were going to come get us. So, you know, it is. It is something that. I think that's how we have evolved over millions of years. But we. We know that we can actually practice and shift that bias. And that's the work that is resident in positive psychology. That's the work that is in so many spiritual traditions which are to not be subject to what we have, but to evolve into a higher state of self. And that's what I love, by the way, about the work that Naomi did and when I met her, because she takes it from gurus preaching to simple games, she takes us back to the childlike state. When we are children, we want to play. And it is through play that we learn. And that is the beauty of the work that when Naomi shared with me, and I want her to actually share a little bit also around this positive turn game that she created, that she works with organizations, because nobody wants to be lectured to. Nobody wants to be like somebody sitting out there with a finger saying, you need to go do this, this, and this. Naomi says, let's play a game.

And.

Through that, all of a sudden you go like, oh, my God, I learned something. So, Naomi, back to you. Tell us a little bit about how you're bringing gaming into the corporate worlds to really heal the world, to really fundamentally infuse energy and positivity into places that right now so many of them are draining. And people. That's the reason people say, thank God it's a Friday. That's why people leave the day. So many people, 70, 80% of them leave the day drained. Drained, emotionally drained physically.

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So talk a little bit about your work and how you're infusing energy into through positive turn in organizations.

So there are, it's, it's really a few facets of the. Of the topic. So one of them is that it's a collaborative teamwork of changing the mood. Okay. Because you get all the team into one room and you play the positive turn game and there it's, it's a totally positive game that is structured on the strengths perspective and during the game you actually acknowledge each other. People acknowledge each other. People are. So what I wanted to say is that the structure of the games give you a few benefits. Okay. One is that it sets the stage for a psychological safety zone in which it is safe to be positive because you know it's not safe to be positive. People think that you are like in la La Land, you know, you're the, the crazy person.

You're not. You're not serious.

Exactly. So first, it is safe to be positive because you're everybody serious and it's a serious game and everybody's playing that. And second of all, you understand what positivity is. Positivity is not relentless optimism that everything's going to be all right. Right. There is array of emotion that is part of positive psychology. A feeling of trust, a feeling of community, a feeling of sharing information, a feeling of acknowledgment. All of that is part of the gameplay that they play and they actually experience it. Is it clear? Am I clear? You know, because it's. It's. I need.

It is. It is absolutely clear. And I will just play back, my friends. So two or three things to just play back to you. All right? Number one, this notion truly of psychological safety and trust and creating that space really, really important, which is kind of what Naomi talked about. And, you know, optimism. And we used a word in McKinsey through all the work I did, Naomi, which is we said, listen, what we are talking about is grounded optimism. Not cautious optimism, not jubilant and kind of this crazy, like, oh, everything's going to be okay. Well, you know, really, like think, you know, it's not about not recognizing where we are, but grounded optimism, recognizing what we are dealing with, but still optimistic that we will emerge forward, we can come out stronger, we can find meaning in whatever suffering we have right now. Optimism and confidence in ourselves, confidence in the world, confidence in others. We are never alone, and that collectively we will emerge stronger from it. And we have that ability. So this notion of grounded optimism, and then the third. This is not a cognitive thing. It is a feeling thing. It is an experience thing. We can read about it. You can read about a chocolate, but once you taste the chocolate, once you experience it, your relationship changes. Otherwise, you can read about chocolates all day long. I can give you 100 books on chocolates and you'll still not love chocolates like I do. It's too much of a love. But, you know, we won't go there. Anil, back to you, my dear friend.

No, no, I'm just. When I'm listening to you both, I just. This is. This is really resonating with me because. So I'm being an American, I'm known for being optimistic. Awesome, right? And that's just how I. I totally agree with you. Ashish.

Like, and he lived in England. My wife is not here.

Exactly. No, but it's exactly Ashish. I would ask people in England, hey, they'd ask me, how you doing? I'm like, I'm great. How are you? Yeah, I'm not too bad. And I always go, so you're not good? They're like, no, I'm good. I'm just not bad. I'm like, they wanted you to say that you're good, you know, and it's just like, almost like they're inherited, like this expression. But, you know.

Exactly.

On that note, I'm so. I'm trying to, like, convert all Brits as much as I can to go. How you doing today? I'm awesome. I'm good rather than. I'm not too bad. But I digress. But listening to the two of you, as an American, when I. Words truly do matter. And when I enter a meeting and I want to bring positive energy, and I'm known for that, right? And Mr. Enthusiasm, Mr. Positivity, I notice that. That I have to be culturally sensitive because some people in the room don't really. They actually, to your point, they kind of are drawn to the negative. They're drawn to. So what I love about what you discussed here about this, about, you know, this collaborative emotional intelligence, is it creates a baseline. So everyone, despite your background but your culture, has a starting point. It doesn't defer to, let's crack a joke in the room that's culturally insensitive, that makes a few people laugh and a few people uncomfortable. You're actually able to create a baseline. So I just. I want to build on that, Naomi, with your experience. So could you maybe give us an example or tell us a story when you take in a client and how you created that impact, that from to. And how you notice the performance, the. The energy, the dynamic health of that team change through your efforts.

Okay, so I will tell you a story about a team of managers in the call center in a tourism operation. And the story is always different dots and places that you collect from the people who actually implement what you're doing. Right? So one story is that during the game, what people do is they actually give each other strength cards. And the structure of the strength card is that it is very, very easy to understand, right? You have creativity, you have love, you have curiosity, you have courage. So very, very common notions that people can relate to. And in one instance, they were sitting around the table playing, and one manager gave Shirley gave Daniel a strength card that is called humility. Okay? Now, in modern days, humility is like. Okay, maybe it's not, like, the most valued strength card ever. And she saw him, like, his face were going down, and he was not really happy with getting that acknowledgment. So she said to him, no, because where is really? Everybody talks. So she said, ah, Daniel, don't worry. Don't worry. This is a brilliant, brilliant card that I Gave you Why? Because I see how you deal with your team. I see that you are not trying to take their spotlight, and you create a feeling of trust because they know they are safe to share information with you. I wish I would be more like you. Okay, the meeting ends, and then after the game, we talk about the strength talk, which is a tool always. The experience is so strong that we always take reflection afterwards and talk about the different tools that can be used to implement that in our daily lives. Okay, so the strength stock is one of those tools, but it wasn't a homework or anything. I just explained it. How do you create a strength stock? How do you set it up? What are the rules and all of that. And the next week, we meet again, and she comes and she says, I have to tell you something. And I said, okay, of course. Tell me, tell me. I'm. I'm eager to listen. And she says, you know what? In my team, there is this lady that for more than half a year, we haven't been speaking. So I am her boss, but she's older than me, and she's a bit disrespectful. Respectful sometimes.

Disrespectful?

Yeah, disrespectful. So I avoided. She was honest enough to say it. And after we played the game, I thought maybe I should really give up my ego. I was stunned because I never talked about ego, you know? Yes, we talked about strengths. We talked about communication, communicating the strengths. Okay? So she made her own calculation. And then she set up time with this lady, and she did a strength talk with her, and she said it was such an amazing moment to see the shift on this woman's face when she suddenly acknowledged there because she was all the time avoiding it or saying negative things. And suddenly she went there and she said, you know, I know that you have these strengths and that strength and that strength. Let's discuss how we amplify that. And suddenly they became friends. And I know, because I know this client is an old client of mine, and I know that until today, they meet every day and drink coffee.

Oh, my God, I love that story, Naomi. And for our listeners, look, I'll highlight how big of a deal this is, right? So in all my research, a lot of the work we are doing in Happiness Squad, right on the organization side, is around building cultures of thriving. And there are four key skills. There are four things that if we can embed into any organization, we can get so much more productivity. We can actually create environments where people really thrive and are able to go Way beyond what they even think is possible. And what you just alluded to in this story were four of the. All four of those core elements. Right? Number one, people light up when we give them meaning. We. And one of the very powerful ways to give meaning is by helping figure out how they can use more of their strengths. See, our workplaces aren't designed for that. We don't have those conversations. We talk about what you need to improve. We don't say, how can we amplify your strengths? How can we use it even more? So point number one, you know, that conversation, that little game, even though you didn't talk about ego, you didn't talk about any of that, enabled her to go have a conversation that all of a sudden was about leveraging strengths, infusing meaning into her. The second big thing, right?

Second big thing, right. For the employee and her.

And her. Right, Exactly. I mean, you never change.

Collaborative emotional intelligence.

Beautiful. Second, what you just highlighted, talked around. When we truly acknowledge the other person when we see them, and more importantly, we let them know that we see you just as you are. Putting our judgments aside, we see you. You create belonging because you're saying, I see you and I accept you just as you are. True belonging. You don't need to fit in. You belong. And in places where we belong, we show up with our full self, not just the part that we think is safe to share. So it really touches my heart because it's so beautiful. I mean, these two, you know, six months not interacting, not belonging, both playing small and all of a sudden creating that environment that allow them to really amplify that energy. And three workplaces which are energy draining. Right. So really thinking about the energy of the place, if you show up where I'm avoiding you, you're avoiding me. I can imagine that six months for her, both of them, it wasn't necessarily an energizing place. It's a draining place. Because whether we use words to put people down or whether our actions get interpreted as disregard, you know, I show up to work every day and yes, you give me a paycheck, but you literally are not acknowledging me. Oh, my God. Right? So she created through that an environment of energy positivity. Right. That again, is really, really powerful in thriving organizations. And the last piece is all around well being. And people think about well being as eat and sleep and nutrition. But our emotional and spiritual well being are really, really important too. And that relational field, you know, you talked about, they now have coffee together. There is friendship. There is true friendship. That is emerging. So it's just beautiful. My dear friends, if you take anything away from this beautiful story that Naomi said, games are a really powerful way. But even if you just do it through conversations, have a conversation with your boss or with somebody who works for you around what their strengths are and how they can use it more, truly connect and acknowledge, say thank you, I appreciate and just heart to heart connection. I think it'll be a game changer for you and your teams.

I just want to reflect on that for a moment from just, you know, from a corporate perspective and a corporate experience. Right. I think a couple things. One is with this, without this resolving itself, the effect it has on the rest of the team is also a knock on effect. Right. You're, you're, you're, you might have two, three people, but that dynamic, it's, you know, one, two, two, three bad apples can spoil the whole barrel. And I think that that's something that, you know, if you're in a group that's probably quite quiet, introverted and don't speak up, they're just going to suffer in silence. And that's obviously not beneficial either. So I totally agree. I think the second thought that comes to mind is, you know, some people struggle to have these open conversations. You know, even all the tools and techniques they're taught as they become leaders. You know, I think we spoke about this earlier, Ashish. Sometimes leaders get to a certain level where they're unwilling, unable to take this feedback. And I think a simple game like this that can allow people to have that type of experience together, it just turns on its head. I mean, when was the last time somebody said, hey, let's play a board game. And people, you know, booed and booed. Now people go, yeah, let's do it. Let's have some fun. Let's, let's actually, you know, engage. And if this can be the outcome, I think it's just, it's a nice way, it's a great way of changing cultures that may be stagnant and actually need something like this to move things on. So I, I actually love what you just highlighted. The meaning and belonging. Ashish. Critical for value, critical to remove those drainers and critical for people's emotional well being. So I, I just want to echo that and say it's, it's absolutely necessary in corporate or for that matter.

And you know what that is. You mentioned the introverts, right, that don't speak. And this is one experience that I had. Just a quick, quick story that we are out of Time. But a quick story. I did a workshop in a bank, okay. And we were dealing with the strengths perspective and they were playing the game and there was this table where they were playing. The manager always the manager has to be part because he sets the tone. So the manager of the department was playing with four other people and one of the women got a strength card of being really efficient and being prudent and being able to execute. And she had that card. And then they discussed it. Because part of the game is that you don't only give cards, you get question cards. And the person who gave you that card needs to elaborate. So you were talking about discussions. It is a structured discussion that you have to do in the game in order to progress in the game. So it's not only, okay, I gave you now curiosity. What does curiosity look like in the workplace? When did you see me being curious? Why did you give me that card? So it begins to be like an in depth interaction about the topic at hand in the relevance of that workplace. And what happened was that they had this discussion and she was saying, listen, I don't like it that I only get these strengths to amplify, right? Because everybody counts on me and I don't participate in the planning and I am a very creative person and nobody sees that. They see only my prudence. The manager picked on that and she said at the end of the session, she said, I am going to allocate 20% of your time to be part of the creative process.

Wow, that's awesome.

In one hour. That one hour changed people life, right?

Yeah, it is, you know, it is so powerful, Naomi. Like, you know, you and I have been talking for a while about collaboration and how we introduced. Right. A lot of this and you know, you've just triggered a spark for me, my friend, that I will follow up afterwards on. But you know, I've been working and I've been really quite inspired by the job crafting work done by Dr. Jane Dutton and her colleagues at Michigan Ross. And there's a whole script around strengths and what you love and introducing it into jobs. But I think if we combine that with actually the strengths game, I think it'll actually increase the effects of it so much more. So for those who are listening, you all should check out Positive Turn. And Naomi, I think she is truly, truly one of the most joyful, but also one of the most soulful persons who is committed towards using games to just liven up the workplaces, fundamentally increase our effectiveness. Look, it is true when we are happier when we are joyful, we are more creative, we are more successful, we are kinder, we achieve outcomes that are fear, survival driven brain can't even think about. We think in constraints, energy and joy is unconstrained, it's all around us. And that is the power that Naomi with her work unleashes. I've been blessed to have gotten to know her over so many months now. But Naomi, tell us a little bit about how our listeners can get to know more about you, discover you find the work that you're doing and bring you into their worlds. Because we need so much of your energy and your skills and truly your heart into our workplaces.

So first of all, I've prepared for your listeners a special presentation that Anil Wright I send it to you, it's about creative emotional intelligence. And at the end of the presentation you can see my email and you can always touch base with me in LinkedIn. I will be happy to hop on a call and discuss this because this is my passion. So whenever you think about how to bring happiness into the workplace, how to create more positive outlook and how to amplify the stress perspective and use it as a communication tool, I'm there.

I love that. And you know, as I was getting to know Naomi before today, I actually bookmarked your website Positive Turn Game. And yesterday when I was going through it, I found one of the games that says click on a sunshine. Like, I was like, wow, I didn't realize you could have different types of sunshine. I clicked on it and a question popped up and it's like, you know, think of a person who's a role model that you respect and what, what character, what values do you think of? And I, I just, I love that because again, it, there was so much in that. There was gratitude, there was example, there was, you know, mindful. It was, and I, I, I actually did that. Then I found another son, I picked on that and I just, I encourage the listeners, as you just mentioned, to bookmark it. If you find that moment where a song doesn't do it for you and you want to play a game and you've got a few minutes, just click on the site and just answer one of those questions. I promise you it'll leave you with a warm fuzzy feeling. I definitely was left with one. And so for sure. So Naomi, just on the back of that, that was a gift at least you imparted to me when you shared that with me. I would like to ask you, are there, let's say one, two, maybe three let's say gifts or ideas or pieces of advice that you'd like to impart on our listeners as we wrap up, just so that they can take from you and integrate it into their lives from today.

So I think it's a three layered advice. Okay? So the first layer is recognize that your thoughts are not you. And if you feel negative thought, it will pass, right? Just let it pass. Don't dwell on it, don't enlarge it. And take. If you have like a mindstorm, right? Everything is negative, something happening, and you don't like the way it happened, okay? And you feel all these negative emotions. Just take three big deep breaths, relax. And then layer two, question it. And that's actually part of your saying in the awareness of the happiness course. And I will give another tip for that. I will edit. Say to yourself, okay, something happened. I think somebody's gonna fire me at work. Oh, my God. I have. And I can tell you a quick story. No, I won't tell you a quick story. So we don't have the time. So I'll tell you afterwards.

No, you can't not tell the story. Tell us now.

You have to tell it exactly.

Okay? So the story is like that. I was given a workshop in an industrial company, and I always have a meeting with the HR person and the team leader to figure out what is the exact topic that they want to handle and what are the vibe in the. What are the negative vibes in that environment. And he said, you know what? There is somebody in my team that is a team leader of one of the teams, and I want him on board. And he was picking his phone and saying to him, oh, come on. Now we have it. Naomi with the hr, please come. Okay? Five minutes later, I knock on the door. The man comes in, approaches me, shakes my hand, and asks me, are you here to fire me?

Oh, my gosh. Oh, boy.

Yes, because that's where the mind goes, right?

Exactly. Totally out of context. Totally not relevant. The opposite. Exactly. But that's what he thought. So don't believe your thoughts. And here's a trick how to do it. After you breathe, okay, you relax a little bit. Ask yourself, what are the percentage that this is going to be a collateral catastrophe? Okay? Ask yourself, how much percentage do you give it? 50%, 80%, 90%? Give it a number. Now, the rational mind goes to be given a number. You can't give 100% because it doesn't know he's not fired yet. Right? So it will give you 90%. I had this experience with someone. 90% he gave me. I said, okay, now we put the 90% aside. We will deal with them later. Let's talk about the 10%.

Yes.

What is. And then make a plan on that 10%. How to enlarge it. So it's also being very practical in the sense that you find new solutions because you allow yourself to look at the 10%.

I love it. Naomi. Thank you. This was such a joy. My dear friend to.

You.

Right. Lifelong friends. We're going to do tons of amazing work together. I hope so many of our listeners get a chance to come directly interact with you. I deeply appreciate you in my life. I love listening.

Appreciate you guys for this podcast. It's amazing. The opportunity to. To have soul mates that really understand the deepness and the need and the possibility for change.

Yes, absolutely. No, I. I just want to echo Ashish's thoughts. Thank you, Naomi. Really appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you, Ashish. Thank you, Anil. It was a pleasure, a delight.

Same here.

Joyful moment to remember.

Joyful moments.

If we could genuinely bottle you, Naomi, I would love to bottle you. I don't know if you'd fit in any bottle. And just like anytime, we just need like a burst of joy. It's either the song, it's the thought, or it's Naomi in a bottle. Poof. You know, this is awesome. Hey, have a wonderful evening and take care, Naomi.

Bye.

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