How Grounded Leadership Helps You Lead with Strength and Confidence in Uncertain Times with Jason Hanson

Our most recent election really demonstrates there's a large group of people that think differently than we do. We're increasingly polarized and so many of the workplaces we go separating what you opt into the paths you choose. The self selection piece aside, you're going to be working with people that don't see things the same way as you do. You're going to have to be effective Leading Change.

Welcome to the Happiness Squad Podcast. Your weekly dose of practical tips and inspirations to help you operate at your fullest potential by integrating the science of flourishing into how you live, work and lead. In each episode we will share insights, tips and stories from leading experts, company executives and flourishing solution providers that you can implement right away to make happiness your competitive edge and find more success, joy, health, love and meaning in everything you do.

Hello friends. Welcome to the Happiness Squad Podcast where we share practical tips to make flourishing your competitive edge and help you achieve stellar performance powered by well being, not at its expense. I'm Ashish Kothari and I am on a mission to help a billion people not just experience happiness as an emotion, but use it as a tool to unlock their fullest potential. If you're interested in learning more, please make sure to follow me on LinkedIn and subscribe to our newsletter@happinesssquad.com today I'm thrilled to bring you a conversation with my dear friend Jason Hanson, who is a Faculty Director for the President's Leadership Class at CU Boulder. The President's Leadership Class is one of CU's strongest undergraduate programs with emphasis on high academic achievement, leadership development and and ethical citizenship. Jason is also a certified Gallup Strengths Coach and has over 20 years of experience in the field of leadership development across corporate and university settings. In this conversation, Jason and I explore the concept of grounded leadership, emphasizing its importance in navigating change and uncertainty. We discussed the role of strength based development as well in fostering high performing organizations and the necessity of ongoing dialogue about strengths in leadership development. Wait till the end to hear four powerful questions that you can use in your regular check ins with your teams or with your boss to take this strength based approach towards growth and success at your workplace. And now let's go to the show and engage with Jason. Hi Jason, welcome to the Happiness Squad Podcast. It is so lovely to host you my friend on our show.

Thank you Ashish. It's so good to be with you. I love your work and it's great to get a chance to talk with you again.

Yeah. So look, you and I are partnering on this amazing President's Leader class that you teach at cu. And I know leadership development has been a huge passion area of yours. It's something that you've spent a lot of time. You know, I love this notion that you talk about of grounded leadership in times of change. So I would love to unpack that a little bit with you, Jason, first by what you define as grounded leadership and why you think it is so essential, especially in this period of volatility and uncertainty that we are navigating in.

Thank you. Yeah. Leadership development started for me early on when I was a kid growing up on the south side of Chicago in lower socioeconomic status, community on the decline in many ways economically. And I just had some great, I was so fortunate. I had great people in my life that were willing to serve, that identified leadership as starting right where you're at. And they really gave me a chance to try some new things and stay in motion on a positive direction until I could really get my footing on my own. And I had a great family support. I had all these wonderful opportunities and benefits working in my favor. And yet I was still influenced largely by my peers and what I saw around the corner. And for me, there was always this, this dissonance between what I thought I wanted to do with my life and my opportunities and what I saw people do it. I didn't get the sense people were heading in a similar direction in my day to day interactions. And so that was my, that was what got me involved in leadership development to begin with. I found I really responded to it and in many ways I had a knack for it. And so I've continued to seek out opportunities to grow that skill set and be able to contribute in that way. And where I'm at in that process now is this is what I love getting to spend my time doing, to serve in this way, to help others in this way. And throughout the process of leading in different contexts and serving in a variety of capacities, what I feel so often we find that we're choosing the path that makes the most sense to us. We're following our inclinations. We're not necessarily focused on the perspective taking or understanding that everybody chose their best option, that everybody did the thing that made the most sense to them. And so I think when you put on that leader hat, especially when it's early on in your growth and development, it gives you a little bit more license to start to explore those things that you may not have made the time to do otherwise. And so the onus becomes more on you to Adapt your approach to meet the audience, to connect with people in a meaningful way, to set the stage for discovery. And so again, through those that journey. Grounded leadership to me is something where you have a broad base of experiences to draw from. You can only build off of, you can only go as high as the quality of your foundation. And so I think when you start to tap into those things that you're wired for, the things that really speak to those communities and causes that, that you care about, you're already working so hard to put this effort in and contribute. I think some of the leadership development work that I've been able to do helps people get more of what they're already working hard for. And I think there's a growing need. I think the times are really volatile. I think the systems that are out there are serving fewer people effectively. And as there's this growing disparity in the needs that are unmet, as we're increasingly polarized, as the sands are shifting, I think we need grounded leaders, folks that can really understand why they believe what they believe, that have had opportunities to pressure test those ideas and put those into real life contexts and have a real human component to it. I think that's one of the key things that helps leaders today be effective. I think that helps us navigate change. When I think about leading, you're out in new territory, you're solving things that are, you haven't been through before. There is a number of things. It gets harder as you go and you get better at it. So I think that grounded leadership to me means things like I have a good foundation in my wellness and the way that I approach my personal development. I think my community and the ways that I engage and had meaningful interactions with others, I think the fact that I have again, some leadership insights of studying success, figuring out my recipe for success and putting that into motion, those are some of the things that I think equip leaders to be effective when they're leading today. And we don't get too far away from the people side of change. Anything that's any of those big ideas, any of those big causes, any of those success stories, they usually are not things that one person did on their own. They're things that were a product of incremental improvement, compounding impact over time. And so that intentionality and some of the things that we get to do because of who we worked with and what we were able to achieve together. You know, I love what I mean.

When I love those, I love those inputs, right? And I'm taking So many of these different components away. And I just reflect on, you know, my own experiences. Right. I think on one side, this notion of having a foundation rather than just trying to please the other, having your own voice, your own value, your own perspective, I think is really important. And you talked about that like on what ground are you standing? What is your foundation, what are your values, what are your perspectives? At the same time, recognizing that in a world that is changing, your perspective might be actually flawed or biased. You might be even blind to, you know, what other people need or where they are. So I think this notion of what you also highlight, connecting with what are the perspectives of others and what are the needs, right. I think that they have. So I think it's this notion of this duality. If we have a solid base from that we can start to also explore where others are and might even change our perspective. Because as you said, leadership is about going into new frontiers, new territories. So while we need a set of skills to be able to go there, we might realize that what we have and what we think is actually not needed in this context right now. And so hence this notion of being able to learn. And then what I also loved was this point that you highlighted that there is no one person who achieves great things. There are a lot of people involved. So this notion of really being able to bring people together, really being able to collectively go and solve that challenge, right. Makes it, makes it so powerful. So I love that. Thank you for sharing that. Talk to me a little bit about as you think about this truly grounded and authentic leadership. Talk to me a little bit about the role it plays in creating healthy, high performing organizations.

In my mind, our most recent election really demonstrates there's a large group of people that think differently than we do. We're increasingly polarized and so many of the workplaces we go separating that self that what you opt into, the paths you choose, the self selection piece aside, you're going to be working with people that don't see things the same way as you do. You're going to have to be effective, leading change and helping people get what they need to be, feel like they're equipped to take action, to proceed, recognizing that there's a difference in readiness. I think organizations that have folks that can set the stage for meaningful engagements to help their teams earn each other's trust and respect so that we can work more effectively together. I think a lot of that really boils down to the philosophy of the leaders and I think a lot of the implementation of that is rooted in what people can do when you're not there, what works when it's not dependent on you. So I think at the organizational view or the enterprise level, I think there's things where we're only as good as the vision that we can articulate and the plan that we can implement. So we have to make sure we understand our audience and give them the tools they need to be effective. I always go back to that the Maslow hierarchy of needs idea. And one of my favorite ideas from him was the grumbles concept where he was saying don't just listen for the presence or absence of complaints. Listen for the content of what they're struggling with. And is it that I don't have the tools to do my job or that I don't feel seen and appreciated or. But I think wherever your team is at having that act, the accurate self awareness or situational awareness for where people are at in the process and helping them have what they need to take the next step, we don't necessarily wait till we're perfect to get going. We get going to get good at this and we normally have enough to take the next step. So I think organizations that can tap into their people. The war for talent is one of the real things that separates high performing organizations from others. Engagement plays a big role in that. Adjusting your approach for that. Some of the net promoter score ideas of who's the movable middle, where can I gain some of the biggest ground? I think organizations that have a philosophy that's rooted in things like that, those are the ones that I see performing the best and that then there's those lag indicators that retaining top talent piece of the equation. People want to do meaningful work. People want to go to where they can do the things they're best at, where they can come to life. So a lot of the work I've seen and been able to contribute to is rooted in helping organizations thrive through the engagement of people and helping them perform at higher levels over time.

So Jason, you obviously before your role now at the university, spent a lot of time in corporate world, right? You were at Schwab and other places. Talk to me a little bit about, you know, how you all assessed and really help leaders up their game around these practices. So many people are just focused on delivering performance, right? Execution and real leadership development oftentimes gets sidelined. They might run programs, but are we really developing leaders or are we just running some trainings? Talk to me about some things that really helped, you know, in your corporate roles make sure. That there was real leadership development happening. People were picking up skills and the results were showing up. Sure.

When I moved out to Colorado in 2015, I had just spent a decade at Northwestern working with their leadership programs and I parlayed that into a corporate talent development role. I was on the enterprise learning and talent management team at a time when they were adopting a new leadership model. There was four pillars and we were trying to socialize that across the firm. We needed self directed learning paths. We need a knowledge capture for our retirement eligible senior leaders. We needed training programs to help grow people's skill sets and navigate increasingly complex changes. So what we really leaned into things like some of the situational leadership ideas where you would take as the leader the onus of I'm going to adapt my message to meet the audience where they're at. If they're an enthusiastic beginner, I know they don't necessarily know how to ask all the right questions. So it's going to be more important for me to make sure that we have the right types of criteria in their plan, that we have the right distance between checkpoints, that I have a more active role in shaping that on the early end. And as they go up the level of competencies, I can adjust my approach and scale back to whether I'm delegating with constraints or supporting them or coaching them. And methods like that I found to be really helpful. We would outsource a lot of that to vendor led solutions and bring in the Ken Blanchard team to help us implement that with our different tiers of new deferred leaders, the newly promoted vice presidents. We also had a culture that was rooted in strengths based development. So when you can show up and do the things that you're best at, when you can tap into those ways you intuitively think, feel and behave, those were some of the ways that spilled over into everyday interactions being of a higher quality that the stories I told at dinner were rooted in things I got to do in side by side, you know, anecdotal strengths conversations. It's not necessarily what Gallup called it all the time, but the ways that I would come to life and just have that intuitive way of knowing and being. We did a lot with engagement, we did a lot with one on one coaching and tools like that really helped us. We were struggling as a firm to attract and retain that millennial aged workforce segment. That was one of the appeals to me as a candidate as I had just spent the previous decade specializing in that. And so we were able to improve some of the retention of those early folks from just under two years to closer to three and a half in that short time I was there. And some of the work I got to do contributed to that. I was specifically helping with their self directed learning paths for different experience levels and career tracks within the firm. And we were able to do great things. It was exciting to be a part of implementing a new leadership model and competency and assets based consideration within that and from there to help folks really specialize in keeping the client top of mind. And I never left a meeting at Schwab without somebody asking, so how does this impact the client experience? I have only great things to say about my time there and how focused we were on really clarifying the business need and the impact for the other constituencies that mattered. I saw a lot as a. I got certified as a strengths coach there and I was on a team of folks and we were deployed with the new vice presidents initially. And so folks that were either new to the role or new to firm in that capacity. We would work with them to tap into some of the ways that they show up, some of the ways that they can convey, the ways that they're inclined to think, normalizing the fact that we all get there in different ways. It's more about understanding how I achieve and communicating that so that everybody I work with has a sense of how I show up, where I'm inclined to start, maybe some of my gaps and the complimentary partners I might seek out to round that out.

I love that. Right. So I think you're highlighting so many of these. It's not a one size fits all. You know, you. I love the fact that you highlighted different modalities, you know, all the way from leadership programs that you would have people run through. The fact that the skills were different at different levels, but also coaching and really meeting people to be able to then help them translate and build that, complement that particular skill and implement it. Right. And you know, at McKinsey we were strength based too. We made a pivot about, I think about 10 years ago to really make strength based development a core part of how we evaluated how we developed our people and help them kind of find, you know, we had a particular word, we called it, you know, there was no review where the conversation wasn't about what is Jason's sparkle, What is an area where he really sparkles? You know, we had our competency model around problem solving and communications and clients impact and knowledge and values. And you know, of course everybody was expected to develop across all of them. But we always said, what is one area of sparkle? Where does Jason do better? Way better compared to his peers in an area. And we said, how can we help him then in that context, really develop and double down. Right. Used to make a big difference. I'm a big believer. But look, most organizations are not strength based. They're also not somebody that actually does these feedback sessions on an ongoing basis. Performance feedbacks that are once a year and really more of a. I often find, check the box or decide and you know, to say, does somebody get promoted? Or what's the percentage increase in their salary or bonus? So I want to go into that, Jason, with you because I think with your work at Schwab, with now what you're doing at plc, I think strength shows up. So for our listeners who the concept of strengths might be new, first talk to me a little bit about why from your experience and from your studies, it's really important to leverage to focus on strength based development. Why does it matter for individuals to focus on your strengths rather than, you know, really address your weaknesses?

I can't necessarily teach you to be motivated by a part of the process that you're not wired for. So part of the key benefit of strengths is these are the ways that you are inclined to think and feel and behave. And so with that in mind, this is your go to. These are the things that you come to life doing. These are things where we hear so much about imposter syndrome, where I don't necessarily know that I'm going to have the skills needed to meet the moment. Strengths is one of the best offsets there is out there because these are things where glimpses of excellence is one of the clues to talent that you look for in the Gallup model. And the idea there is that there's no real reason I should have been this good at it, but I just knew how to do it and all the right pieces came together. When you look at a person's resume, those are their highlights. So many of those highlight experiences come from some recipe for success for you that was dialed in and the ingredients were there, the actions you took were the right ones and the results showed it. What I like about strengths is that it is. It's a thing that you have a wiring for. It's conative. It's these systems and strategies that scale across your career. It's the ways that if I was to have. If you and I were side by side doing a speed reading exercise and you had this aptitude for this, and I do not, you're going to gain so much more ground in that same amount of time, that same amount of effort. And so when you think about return on investment or opportunity cost, when you can start to tap into your strengths, you're more likely to know how to achieve in the moment and have the path that's going to continue to help you grow and thrive on a team based dynamic. When I understand how my team shows up, when I understand which part of the process they get energized by, those are things where I can figure out we can come together in a pro social in a proactive way and just say you're really excited about this part of the process. I'm really energized by this part. How do we incorporate that into our plan to do this together? How many of our teams are cross functional in nature? So as pupils bring different elements to the equation, I think how you come to life individually, how it sustains your engagement over time, how you can work as a team, as a leader. I can compliment your outfit or that great job you did on that recent project, but if I can speak to who you are and see you at your core, those things that are just some of the things that you get chills thinking about or when you have those moments to sparkle, that is just a different level of connection that translates into loyalty, dedication, the types of symmetry that brings the best products together. At Schwab, one of my favorite things we had a coaching format throughout our monthly meetings. It was employee led meetings with their managers and there was always four questions we asked. Where? Since we last met, where have I succeeded? Where have I struggled? What help do I want from my manager and how will I incorporate my strengths more in the coming weeks?

So let's go over that again.

Where have I succeeded? Some of the things that came together really well. Where have I struggled? Stretched me thin, depleted me, missed the mark, what help would I like from my manager and doing the work that I'm focused on in the near term and then how will I incorporate my strengths more? How is that ongoing intentional investments in bringing my best self to work and developing those things that are going to help me thrive? You say so well, flourishing is our competitive advantage. Strength is a big part of that in my mind.

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Thirdly, you can't flourish without Focus on strength. And I love those, I love those questions. But I also loved all the different ways that strengths allow us to get the best out of people. I think your notion of the need to be seen is so present in all of us and when we see somebody's strengths and play that back to them, we have seen. Right. I love that. I think strengths is also, as you mentioned, where can I use I strength Smoke. I'm reminded to a little bit about the work of Jane Dutton and, and Amy around job crafting. You know, the more strengths we use, the more meaning we can create in our jobs. Forget about the fact that, you know, when we use our strengths and we are able to as a leader, really tap into the strengths of the team in terms of roles they're doing. If you have a strength, you'll be able to do it faster, more efficiently, more effectively. And so you're also implicitly getting a performance advantage because you're seeing a person, you're winning their heart and so they want to contribute a lot more. Right. And you're also creating more meaning. So I love it and I love these questions. Where have I succeeded? Where have I struggled? How can my manager help me? And how can I use more of my strengths? And you said, Jason, these are. You integrated these into monthly dialogues at Schwab?

Yes, every month with my manager. My formal meeting was. That was the structure of it. I created the agenda, we unpacked it together and it positioned me to bring solutions as part of the conversation, but also to ask for the help. I wanted to recognize and normalize that there's parts of the process that can be messy. That's where some of the best stuff comes together. But in the moment it feels tough. And you can course correct early on with questions like that.

Yeah, it's a little bit like, you know, at Michigan, Kim Cameron has a process called pmi. I think it's called a personal management interview. It feels a bit like that. It's deliberate. It's a conversation, not a one way feedback. And it's ongoing. Right? It's an ongoing contract through which we collectively rise and support each other, flourish and become the best version of ourselves. I love that.

I need to learn more about that. That's great. I love that too.

Yeah, it's very powerful. So tell me a little bit about a story, Jason. Somebody who you know at Schwab maybe or even in your own class, right. At plc, like in one of the classes, tell me about a story of what became possible when somebody either didn't know their strength and they realized this was your strength or got an opportunity to really use their strength. And what was the impact of that on them and the organization?

When I was at Schwab, one of those early coaching meetings, fresh off the certification, I'd been coaching for some time, but could go to new depths with that additional training and meeting with the vice president who was new to the firm and had a strategy role. But as we were unpacking their strengths, results, there's those four domains. And strategic thinking was not one of the means that their strengths showed up in. And their concern was, do I. Do you have to tell my boss and do I need to look for a new role? I'm in a strategy capacity with no strategic thinking themes in my top section. And that top section is the stuff that's always you. You have to actively turn it off. And the conversation quickly got to this point of we are clearly achieving. You know how to succeed, you know how you perform. And these aren't necessarily the parts of the process that energize you, but you're very effective at helping your team get to that place. You build teams of complimentary partners. You build teams that understand how to work together and perform and overcome the obstacles that can get in the way and derail us. So this person worked intentionally to both make sure that they had strategic thinking themes, presence and highly prevalent across their key leaders. And from there they would work to offset things they would also look at. Some of the offsets were not just that I had team members who can do this. I recognize when I do my best work. So if that in this person's case, the detail work was best performed in the morning when they were fresh and when you didn't necessarily have total control of your schedule, it was important to think through where can I build in offsets? Because I know this part of the process will drain me and it has to be done well. But I also want to make sure that I have my tank full for the other things that are coming. And this was a person who went on to have high success, I think largely because they were so intentional about their strengths and they leveraged the culture of the organization. It was a strengths based culture. Nearly every person of the 22,000 employees had taken strengths. It was a normal part of how people interacted. And so they understand, they understood that for my community, this is going to be a key piece of how what we talk about, what we focus on. And then from there I have greater insights into what I'm going to need to sustain my performance over time. And it also gave that person a good chance to really clarify, is this the path for me? And we spent a little bit of time in one of those sessions confirming, well, I'm brand new here. What are some of the things that I could test out as a hypothesis or a theory or what ideas could I pressure test here to say, will this continue to be the best path for me? Is this going to be something that sets the stage for a different launch pad? And last I heard, that person was still in their role there and thriving and very happy in the work they were doing. So I think that's a great example of how strengths can really, again, we get there in different ways. It's understanding how I perform and what parts of the process energize me so I can inform other decisions. And the ripple effect.

Yeah, I love it. Right. I think there's three things that you clarified, and I think I'm. I'm. That really stuck with me right. In this story. Jason. I think the first is strengths is not about necessarily roles and whether you're a fit for it or not. Strengths is more about you recognizing what you need or might be missing to be successful in a role. So this notion of you're in a strategic planning role, but strategy and strategic thinking is not your strength. That's okay. That doesn't mean you need to quit or hide that. What it means is if you have to be successful, you have to make sure that there are other people who can fill that gap. Right. For you, specifically. Because strategic planning, by the way, is not just about strategic thinking. It is about also bringing people together. It's about aligning to kind of what we are going to do. It is around making sure what you do is actually actionable. So the strategic plan translates into an operational plan with clear metrics. There is a way to measure progress. So maybe there's a part of this that you're really good at. And there might be one part of it, but we like to kind of put everything like with a, you know, with the same paintbrush. Right. It's not that. So I love it. That, number one, it's not about the role, it's about knowing what you'll need to compliment yourself with. I think second is what you highlight is know what parts of the process are going to be draining versus something that's going to come easy and hence knowing your own rhythms of when you are at your best and you're using. Make sure you're doing it at a time that you Know that you're really filled, right. Your cup is filled. So I, I, I love that. And obviously, you know, they got their way. They were. And you were like, they're still there. And I love, you know, I also love this notion of what you said sometimes, you know, many people will have coaches who will help them with their strengths. But you know, I actually do think there's many people at senior leadership level, definitely some in the mid to upper, you know, at some point in their development. If you're listening to these friends, you probably had a strength conversation. Some coach had you take the strengths, you kind of looked at them, they kind of gave you some inputs. You took something away and then you put it away. Imagine if the whole organization, and even if you can't influence the whole organization, I invite you to just do strengths with your team. If you have a budget, go to Gallup Strength Finder. It's fantastic. If you don't have a budget, go to via Character Strengths. It's available for free from the University of Pennsylvania site. It's a just different way of looking at strengths that are more value based. But go have your team do their strength assessment and actually over lunch share with each other what your strengths are and see how you can leverage more of that. It is such a powerful way. It's a conversation that we don't have and it is such a powerful tool that's actually if we can harness allows us to get more out of us and from our teams. So I mean I was struck by the fact that you said at Schwab like the entire organization had actually committed and knew their strength scores. Right. Did you all explicitly, when you form new teams, Jason, actually encourage teams to share their strengths and how, hence the roles they were going to play in teams, they could best utilize those. Was that just part of the culture at Schwab?

It was. So there's volunteers that a strengths champion could help you have those conversations one on one or get a manager in motion on it. There was built in coaches, strengths coaches that could help bring that together. There was ongoing lunch and learns and other types of zoom based interactions related to strengths and normalizing that. But everybody took it as a part of the new employee welcome. It was a part of the story. In around that early 2000s, 2004 ish, the CEO came back, Chuck came back as the CEO and was finding that there was a big gap in the satisfaction with the company. And so they're one of the, I didn't want to say Harvard Business School and the net promoter Score case studies, the success stories of. They focused on the client experience, they focused on employee engagement and in the process they reduced regrettable turnover. They found higher net promoter scores from that movable middle. They had a bunch of people that stayed longer. Their average duration of employees shifted up to 11 years. You were there usually under 2 or over 11 for a variety of reasons. But the strengths piece played a big role in getting you in motion and keeping you on a great track. Yeah, so that was a part of team formation. People got over some of the hurdles that can exist in a model like that where the barrier labels piece. I only want strategy people on my strategy team or you'll need that to be effective in this work. Quickly people started to realize, well actually you don't need that to be effective. What you need is that self awareness.

To proceed, self regulation and have balanced teams. Like in fact, you know, teams have all the different strengths. You're going to be hired, you know, you're going to be better positioned. Right? No, I love that. I love, you know, when I think the idea is also people try all these different things and I think there is also in this a power of choose one or two and really go make a difference. Go make it happen and see the results. See the results that come from it. We'll post in our show notes the Schwab case study around, you know, what you shared right from Harvard on how net promoter scores, customer experience and employee experience were so interligged and went up to significant impact and results. Right. For that company. I have several friends who are at Schwab. You know, I had a pleasure to get to work with them a bit in my prior life. So no, I love, I love the place. I think it's, it's fantastic. Now look, I have a question. You obviously do so much strength, force based work. So Jason, what are your five signature strengths and how have they helped you in your transitions from academic to corporate back to academic, you know, working across all these different students. So why use trends and how they help you in your transitions, my friend.

Thank you. Always a joy to get to talk about those. Strategic is my first activator is my second ideation. Individualization and connectedness are the top five. And so I'm a person that is inclined to lead with strategic thinking. If you ever see like the Jason Bourne movies and he opens up the map and he looks at all the different things and then he knows, okay, I understand how to pivot when circumstances change. And he's very equipped to go from there. The strategic Thinking themes tend to exist where you have this ability to see the alternate path. There's a real value in this, in having the plan that scales and you've heard that come through in the things I get excited talking about. The activator piece has come through in the coaching work I do where I can in above average aptitude at helping people get in motion on the spot where we know enough to get started, we have enough new information to take a next step. And so there's this greater ability to get things in motion right away. The individualization. I'm inclined to want to tailor the message to the people in the room. We're already putting effort into helping people reach or reach people with this idea. Let's adjust it to where they're at in the process. The connectedness piece. I get to that spot of readiness sooner where I can see how the things are interconnected. I can see the paths that would help these to operationalize certain ideas. And the ideation just. I'm full of ideas. If I have a chance to brainstorm. Some of the best work that I can do comes together with starting a process with things like that. So I've used it in a bunch of ways as a leader, the strategic thinking, I get to my spot of, okay, there's new information, the context has changed. Let's make sure we pivot accordingly. But I can get to that spot sooner than the group I'm leading. So if I've got a larger group of followers, I have to be more mindful about, okay, this is the pace of change that the group is ready for. The prosci ad car model has been really helpful to make sure that I can layer in strategies that meet everybody where they're at. The ideation I mentioned where I've learned when possible, I like to have time side by side with folks up front to brainstorm ideas, to process out loud and capture that and then find that agreed upon next step and then get it in motion. I've also seen that just having personal firsthand experiences with strengths. In the early 2000s, I started working with this model at Northwestern. And I was using this. I became our lead strengths educator for the student affairs side. So anything that supports the students outside of their academic pursuits was that group of people on the campus. And I got to do a lot of work with that. And we built it into our leadership programs. And people's authentic voice came through. People's sense of feeling affirmed, people's sense of understanding. Something that when you do the things that are right for you more of the right types of things come together. And so to help people have an early experience where they had that firsthand realization and then from there be able to try it out in a few different contexts, it just amplified the work they were able to do. It made their experience so much more meaningful and they were more competitive as candidates. Especially in that early career stage when self awareness is lacking, recognition that there's a process and I'm in a stage of it. We had standout candidates partially because of they were cut from that cloth, but also because of the finishing school, if you will, that we were able to use strengths and support.

Yeah, it's so true. When you're early, you don't even know what your strengths are. Right. And I think so you're kind of just fumbling your way through. You know, I'll tell you mine since you told me yours, so you won't be surprised. I should almost ask you, what do you think my top five strengths are? Given you do so much of it, maybe I should. So tell me, what do you think are my one like, let's see, can you guess what some of my strengths might be? The top ones.

I would say that executing is going to be a big one for you. You just show up in such a complete way. In my experience with you, it's really hard to parse that out. I would think that you're energized by the achiever piece, getting things done, crossing it off the list. I think that you've got a. You're a workhorse. You have that capacity to drive things to move forward. Let me. I'm trying to think through what I've seen.

Yeah, I'll share that with you and you'll resonate. Right. So I just pulled them up. I don't often think about them, but this conversation reminded me to pull it up. So I think one of them is connectedness. Right. Being able to see all the different pieces and how they fit together. In fact, you know, Jason, this was one of my biggest strengths. And how it played out was I recognized there was all this positive leadership work being done right around energy and purpose and relationships. But I realized that we can tell leaders about all of these, but unless we help them fundamentally shift their root perspective and vertically develop and teach them how to thrive in complexity, they're not at a level of development to be able to pull those skills. And so that's why we pulled in awareness into our model. Also, if people were exhausted and working in ways that was just not neuro friendly I was able to pull in elements from Oxford and other places around how we had to change our environment, how we had to help leaders so that they could pull the other three. So connectedness was a big one for me. This one won't be a surprise. Positivity, right? I'm always filled with energy, empathy, being able to feel into where somebody is woo. Being able to kind of energize and excite a bunch of people very quickly. And then on execution, it's maximizer, right? It's really being able to kind of go and kind of push for the best, right? Maximize the potential. Those are the five that show up for me, and I think they've been a big part. They've helped me a lot. You know, I always go back to those. But I also know, right, for each one of these, there's a shadow side. There's a shadow side to all of these strengths. And so I'm also aware oftentimes of my maximizer comes from my early childhood. Nothing but perfection matters. And so I recognize when I'm overplaying that to make sure I get input from others, because any strength overused can become a liability, as we all know, right? You can be amazing at woo, but if you're wooing people to things that are not good for them, that's only gonna. That's gonna get you into trouble very quickly. Or if you're not authentic, that's gonna get in the way of you. So I think it's always, you know, recognizing that. But anyway, those are the five ones for me. I love this work on strengths. I really wish more organizations, more teams, kept it front and center. And I think from this conversation, Jason, I'm really loving. One of the biggest nuggets I'm taking away is this ongoing monthly dialogue with your managers. You know, number one, recognize you have strengths and do that with your team. But the number two, I love this. Where have you succeeded? Where have you struggled? How can you help me? And how can I use more of my strengths at work? Having that ongoing dialogue is such a powerful way for help. Take every team member and help them grow and develop and really be at their best. I love how practical it is. I love how actionable it is. So thank you. I think those are beautiful. Four questions I'm taking away from this. So, my friend, in closing, if there are one or two pieces of advice that you would have for young leaders, what would that be that allows them to also navigate and kind of. We are not in a world where you had one job and you stayed it in forever. I think we are in a world where people have four, five, six different careers. There are many people who are exploring this. As somebody who has mastered career transitions from one to another, what would be two or three things you would advise others to make sure that they maximize their results from the transitions and be successful?

Thank you for letting me share. I think the definition of success is one of those key things that we struggle to wrap our heads around. We try to do what we think we're supposed to do, we think we're going to do what sounds cool, what makes our parents happy. When we're early in that process, we just want to be effective. We want to have the paycheck or the promotion or the options. And so what I've learned along the way is that I really liked the idea of doing some different types of work. And it took me a few trial and error experiences to realize this is the sweet spot for me where I get to work with people that are enthusiastic, that are excited to learn in some ways are unencumbered by experience, and are just bought into this idea of I'm here to make good on my opportunity. For me, I found that working with students, I found that working in a high performing organization, I found that as a coach and being able to have that opportunity to serve and contribute in that way is one of the things that it's been for me. But it took a lot of experiments to learn that. And so I would say tap into that definition of success. Think about the people in your life that know you well, that have your best interests at heart. Incorporate that perspective, but also know that you have an inner knowing and tapping into that is going to be one of the things that results in that fulfillment, in that success, in that happiness that we're seeking. I would also say separately that I said something similar earlier, but we want it to be perfect before we get started. It's never perfect. There's no job that only does the things that's right for you or that you're wired for. And all that we need to have, we need to deliver. Organizations exist to add value. We're solving problems and so we need to make sure that we can perform. One of your best ways to get there is a tool like strengths, and there's other good ones too. Figure out what that is, try out a few things. It only gets harder. This is as easy as it's going to be and you know enough to get started. So get in motion and from there that's going to get you on the path or at least give you the data points to inform your next steps. And the last thing I'd say is the power of connection that meaningful relationships, we can't get too far away from that. Or it's a hollow, shallow, it's a fragile experience if we're not rooted in the relationships that help us weather the storm.

I love all those three. Thank you Jason. I so appreciate you joining us. You sharing your experience. So much research but like real lived battleground experience my friend. And thank you.

Thank you so much. I've really enjoyed talking today and I I love the work you do. Thank you for sharing it with us.

We'll find lots of opportunities to do great things together. I'm excited.

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It's a really simple way to extend.

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