How Human-Centric Leadership Can Create Cultures that Value People with Jehanzeb Noor, President & Managing Director at Trivium Packaging

Welcome to the Happiness Squad Podcast. Your weekly dose of practical tips and inspiration to help you operate at your fullest potential, integrating the science of flourishing into how you live, work and lead. I'm your host, Ashish Kothari, the founder and CEO of Happiness Squad and author of the bestselling book Hardwired for Happiness. I will be your personal guide on your journey to explore the many facets of happiness, wisdom, well being and flourishing, from personal growth to building more positive environments at work. In each episode we will share powerful insight, tips and stories from our guests who are leading experts, company executives and flourishing solution providers that you can implement right away to make happiness your competitive edge. Whether you're looking to overcome life's challenges, to go from good to great, or to enhance your team's performance through flourishing, this podcast is the place for you to find more joy, health, love and meaning in everything you do. Join us every week as we rewire for Happiness together. Welcome to another episode of the Happiness Squad Podcast. Have you ever wondered if it is possible to create a thriving workplace culture driving higher performance in a private equity owned company with thin margins? Well dear friends, you're in for a treat. Today we dive deep into this topic with our special friend Jahan Seb Noor, who's the president of the European division for Trivium Packaging, a sustainable metal packaging company that is private equity owned. Jahan Zaib is a renowned leader known for his deep commitment to fostering human centric cultures within organizations. With a rich background that spans across various industries including investment banking, automotive, medical devices and consulting, he brings a wealth of experience and insights on this topic on how to create environments where employees can truly thrive. In this episode, Jahanzeb shared his perspectives on what a human centric culture means to him, emphasizing transparency, positive energy spirals, a workplace filled with meaning, authenticity, psychological safety and providing employees with growth opportunities. We explored a range of interventions on how to create this flourishing culture, including leveraging and activating purpose, developing people through mentorship programs, and truly investing and role modeling the power of well being. Stay till the end, dear friends, when Jahanseb shares the some powerful tips on how he fills his own cup through renewal practices and increases his capacity for impact. Hey Jahanzeb, it is so lovely to have you my friend on our Happiness Squad podcast. Thank you for making the time.

Thanks for asking Ashish. Really a pleasure to be here with you and see you again. Thank you.

You know Jahanzeb, you from our early days, you know, at McKinsey, we've known each other now for almost 20 years and always stood out as really somebody who cared deeply about people. And really, you know, there was a magic to teams. You led at McKinsey and of course since then, you know, you've been leading. This is your third company, I think that you're now, now leading. Right. Even after McKinsey and just amazing. Everybody I interact with talks about how what a great leader you are. So it's really exciting to have you here and share some of the things that have helped you in your development and enable you to show up the way you do.

I'm not sure, Ashish, I deserve all the praise, but thank you for the kind words. And in the end, I'm a product of everyone who invested in me since I was much younger and that obviously includes you. So thank you.

No, my pleasure. So, my friend, start with telling us a little bit about, you know, there's a lot of word about human centric cultures, right. But you really live it, you know, you really focus on people. What does that mean to you and why always in your career you focused on making that kind of be the foundation regardless of what was happening around.

Yeah, human centric culture. What does that mean to me? If I put myself in the shoes of my co workers, what I hope for them to say is that I, as an employee come into work looking forward to it. I know that it's going to be tough. I know there will be mistakes. I know that it's going to be frustrated. I will be frustrated at times or it will be frustrating at times. But net net, I see it as something that I look forward to. Then when I am feeling down or I'm struggling, I don't have to hide it. I can actually talk about it. I can ask for help. And guess what? I'm actually willing to do the same thing for my other co workers because they might one day be struggling or be unhappy. And then the last thing I would say, human centric culture to me is that I am given not what I want, but what I need in terms of being stressed, in terms of contributing and in terms of being challenged. So when you put all of that together, I think a human centric culture is one which is transparent, authentic, provides psychological safety, and it's extremely hard to build. It's harder than buying a new machine and installing it into a factory. It's harder than introducing a new KPI. And the second part of your question was, what have I done about it and how have I dealt with that through my career? Look, I started as you know Ashish very well in an investment bank, and then in the automotive industry, and then in consulting, where I met you at the lowest level. So I didn't know anything about leading people or influencing people. Some of it is luck, but some of it is a product of the challenging environments that I picked. I wanted to be challenged, so I picked places that frankly expected high performance at a high pace with smart people around. And that made me feel very insecure at times. But I would say actually majority of the times, what I saw at Ford, for example, which is a very specific case, it's a culture of its own. I saw people really caring about the outcome because the cars that we were designing determine people's safety, their experience, how they actually interact with their families, etc. And I did not see a single shortcut. We would struggle. We would not meet our engineering objectives, but then we would put in more hours, we would work on the weekend, etc. So that's where I really learned role modeling. Humble engineers who were not just telling other people what to do. They were leading by example. At McKinsey, I was given opportunities well before my tenure. And you were among the people who did that, you know, giving me an assignment where I would think, I'm really not qualified. But I was selected for different things, you know, different skill sets. And then not only was I, you know, coached through it, I was actually given the limelight. You know, a lot of leaders or people in leadership positions, they struggle to give others credit because of insecurity. You know, what if my subordinate looks better than me? How does it look for me? Right? But I saw opposite of that. I saw the opposite of that at McKinsey, where a lot of people would send me in to present stuff to the board. And I was an associate, you know, or a project leader or engagement manager, sitting amongst partners. But it was okay for me to speak up. Of course, you have to do that with the right moderation. You can't always speak your mind as a junior guy. So, long story short, I really benefited from people giving me opportunities well beyond, I would say, my capabilities and my tenure. And then I grew into it, naturally. You know, when you give someone an A, they earn it. And I think that's a big part of why I focus on people, is because, you know, I accelerated through my career, and it's only because of what other people did for me. And to me, it's passing it on. It's something that I really enjoyed and benefited from. And, you know, those people who helped me they don't want anything in return. So it's actually, I know in their minds, the best thing I can do is pass it on. So that's why I do it. It's to, in many ways thank the people who have invested in me.

It's so beautiful, right? To just summarize, number one for listeners, look at the heart of what you're describing through intuition is the perl model, which we use so much for our flourishing work. The work that people do. You want them to have meaning, so they show up. They are excited to show up to work. When you find work that is meaningful rather than just something that you're doing to earn a paycheck, you're excited to show up. Second, if you are treated in a way that lift you up, right? So you're valued, which is energy. You're valued, you're recognized, you're growing. That's energizing, right? That's what makes you show up in addition to. And keep coming back, right? So energy. And then you and you talk about this notion that, listen, you know, we are going to have obstacles. It's not that we're not going to have hardships. We're not going to have hard conversations. We're not going to have conflicts. But I don't have to hide it. I can actually have the support I need to be able to navigate it. Psychological safety and trust. I never have to watch my back. We can talk about making mistakes and we can learn from it and get input from others, but we don't have to. And then finally getting the support, being really valued, getting the support to make sure I can operate with flexibility, autonomy, you know, in a way, is that really helped me be at my best and I'm given, you know, and the other thing, you know, you didn't mention it, Jhanze, but I know you do this so well, is you're really good at boundaries. You know, you show it's okay to unplug, it's okay, you know, care so much about family. I mean, that goes so much a long way that, you know, look, we'll work hard, but at the end, you also have to take care of yourself.

That's right, Ashish. You know, I realized over the last many years that people want a natural environment, not an unnatural environment. It's natural and healthy to have a hobby. It's natural and healthy to spend time with your loved ones. It's natural and healthy to say, I'm exhausted. I need to actually change my scenery and get some energy back into me. And where I started, you know, as you know, I'm an immigrant and the whole notion of you start with nothing or almost nothing, and you can't take anything for granted, so all you can do is hard work and you essentially hope for the best beyond that. It took me many years to find that balance. And I'm not perfect now, but it's night and day different. Because what I realized is, you know, others, yes, they want a leader who's hardworking, who's committed, who's, who's invested in the outcome. You know, whether it's solving a problem or financial or whatever else. More importantly, they also want to work with the human being. Right. If I am not in touch with human values and if I'm not a functioning human being, I don't have to be perfect. That's the other thing. I don't have to pretend to be perfect even. I can actually be open about my flaws. But if I'm trying to be a good, balanced, decent human being, all of which is subjective, you know, then others are more likely to want to work in that environment. So, yes, you have to be successful and you have to have a little bit of the humanity aspect, which I don't mean in a judgmental or, you know, formulaic way. Yeah, in the different cultures and different companies.

Absolutely. And the science is actually really clear. Jahanzeb. Now things have, you know, over the last 10, 15 years, it's added up, right? There was a recent research from Oxford that showed the impact of work wellbeing and satisfaction on kind of shareholder returns, profitability, return on assets. But I always go to some work that actually was done in 2007 that now actually is really getting publicized. It's actually by a guy called Alex Edmonds. We had him on our podcast and he did some beautiful work. Because almost all the well being work and flourishing work is correlation based, right. You look at companies that do well and they also have high work wellbeing. So is it the well being driving the results or is it because the company's making lots of money? You know, they take care of people. You know, he did this work that you intuitively tuned into, which is when employees are happier, when employees are more satisfied. He proved a causation of two to three and a half percent higher stock market returns year over year. Now the only works in the mid to long term. So if it's 18 to 24 months, it's really hard to move the needle because it is really hard to create a natural work environment where all the things you talked about are part of the course. They're embedded in culture. Right, because people see through the artificial things.

Exactly. And Ashish, it's contextual. So really understanding the industry, the company, the countries you operate in, and then your team, you know, you can have different orders of figuring it out, but that's the most logical one to me. And then tailoring the approach, I can name companies and I'm not naming these companies because I have any business affiliation with them. Right. But you look at Stryker, their CEO, Kevin Lobo is a very people centric guy, very authentic. And it really matters, the fact that he's talking about patients and shows up to hospitals and really genuinely follows up. You can reach out to him. No matter who you are, he will always respond inside and outside of Stryker. And that's the industry that is helping save people's lives in many ways. Right. And Stryker is a very high performing company. Now you can also look at Apple and the moment I say that, people think, oh, that's a cutthroat culture. Steve Jobs, difficult guy. But it's actually not really true. Because if you look into what Steve Jobs did, he'd really fundamentally and blindly believed in his mission, which was to make great products and leave a lasting company that lives well beyond his own short life. And he was so consistent that he actually hurt himself more more often than not by being so consistent personally and professionally. Got fired from Apple, you know, the first time and then had a lot of family issues. But then people actually looked at it over years and decades and respected him. Right? No one said, I want to be the same personality as Steve Jobs. But that environment where you only push for perfection, nothing else is good enough and you do the right thing for the product that is so hard to build, so hard to copy, it takes multiple decades, right? But after him, if you look at what Tim Cook does, it's not new. He just stood up and launched some AI platforms for Apple. But it's really driving the company forward. So I used two very different examples that are very public to show that the people centric or strong culture, right? Because again, a lot of people can talk about Apple and say, oh, that was very rough. That wasn't really people centric. That's actually not true because they attracted like minded people who cared about the same thing and rewarded them and challenged them and they kept doing it over and over again. Right. Those are companies that are very hard to replicate. You can look at Toyota, the continuous improvement mindset, right? How embedded that is and that's reinforced in all the people processes. So I can go on and on. I wasn't aware of the science that you just shared, but I'm not surprised because the companies that people admire and want to be like, they have a strong DNA around culture and people and it means very different in different industries.

Yeah, no, he's a brilliant guy. We do that. It was just amazing to have him. So Jahanzed, you mentioned obviously your journey like mine, we both kind of came to the country. You came from Pakistan, I came from India. And we pick up a hustle culture, but along the way we pick up a hustle culture. What matters is performance because that's driven into our from all the way growing up. And we obviously succeed from it too. Right. So we kind of internalize that operating model. So what I want to talk about is here, who are two to three people in your career who have shaped you into who you are right now that showed you a different way, that became role models for you.

I won't name them and I won't reveal their identities as such because I didn't ask for permission. And you know, that's part of being, being trusted by.

But think about what might be some situations or, you know, things that they did that really or.

Exactly.

Journeys that you went through, good or bad. Right. Where somebody showed up for you.

I mean, I'll start with my current employer. I'm in an industrials company and you know, we have. This is actually the first business since I left McKinsey. It is the third one where it's kind of razor thin margins on certain products to certain customers. The room for error is very small. You have to be operationally really good. You have to be on the top of your game to make a decent margin. And we are private equity owned, so the expectations are high. Right. And I hired someone from the outside for a particular function where we needed to accelerate our capabilities. And this executive, you know, he's from a Western European country. He's been in only two or three companies for his almost 30 years career after he graduated university. Right. So that's enough variety, but not too much. And one of the personality traits he has is. It goes back to what I talked about. Steve Jobs is consistency. No matter what the level of pressure is, no matter who is in the room, no matter what's in it for him personally, you see that this person really puts the company first, thinks about the team, has a high level of integrity. And when you watch it over and over and over again, you say, wow, that takes skill. That's an unconscious skill right there. And that doesn't. I'm sure the. Just like I. And I'm happy to talk about it later on today, made mistakes. This person made mistakes, too. So every now and then, when I'm not. Actually, maybe I shouldn't say every now and then. It could happen more frequently than I'm aware. Not centered, not my best self. When I act out in a particular setting, whether it's a small group or a large group, I have noticed it has happened over the last 18 months, probably five or six times. This is the only person, and he has nothing to gain from it because it could also upset me. That reaches out to me and say, jahanzeb, you know, I really understand why you did what you did. Is this really how you wanted to behave? You know, did you really have to say that? Did you really have to behave this way? Did you really have to react?

So he's brave enough, courageous enough to come to you and be a mirror.

I just want you to know that I observed something that is not you. When you're at your best self. This is. He's very polite. He's very diplomatic. This is an exception, you know, I just want you to. And then he's not saying, okay, there's the feedback. Goodbye. It doesn't hang up. He's waiting for me to react. Then he engages. And you know what he's doing. He's also figuring me out. This is a guy who's, you know, coming with proposals and plans that need. Need money, need investment. That's why we hired him. But he also then figures out how the other. And he's not manipulative. That's not what I'm saying. I talked about high integrity, right? So this is one example where I learned from someone who works for me, and I would say with me, not for me. But he always calls me the boss. And I want to tell him, hey, you're the boss. You're actually in charge. You're making more decisions than you're aware or than I am because of your style and because of your grace and because of your consistency. And the guy is a very deep, functional expert. So the myths that you can have high IQ or you can have high EQ and you cannot have both. He's a myth buster right there. And I'm so proud to have. I think you can send. I'm so proud to have him on my team. And I also believe sooner rather than later, he'll be ready for my job, whether it's at my current Employee or somewhere else. And I'm. One thing I learned is if you really love someone on your team and they're ready and they're capable, you let them go. If you can't promote them from within, you actually tell them, hey, I love having you around because you make my life easier and you make other people's life easier, but you should really go to something else.

Well, that's, you know, look, that is. I mean, it's something that is so amazing about you. And, you know, I say, you know, universe pays back. You played that role for me, what this person has played for you. I remember when I was, you know, I think I was an em. You were an associate. And, you know, when. I mean, the first time I was leading people, it was really, really hard. I had a high standard and, you know, given that amount of pressure, I was always extra nice to people who were high performing. And I was quite brutal, you know, in those early days, in my young, you know, early 30s, for people who were not performing. And I remember you had come up to me and you had asked me something because you knew how much I cared about people, and yet I was showing up in a way which was not really authentic and not really in service. And Jahan Sab, you said that to me and it stayed with me my whole life. And you said, hey, if you have somebody on your team that is not performing as well versus somebody who's performing really well, who do you think is working harder? Who do you think is working harder? Do you work hard, Ashish, when you're not doing well or when it's easy for you? And it changed, you know, it completely changed my perspective because here I was judging the output, but I was not judging and not taking account the inputs. And these people were like killing themselves day in, day out, trying to rise to the challenge. And here I was not necessarily, you know, showing them that I deeply cared. I appreciated the inputs. I was just upset about the output not being there. And it changed the way I manage people. And it's been the biggest gift you've given me.

Yeah, no, thank you, Ashish. You're. You're too kind. Another person. And this I raise less to talk about my familial history, more to invite the audience on a certain point was my grandfather, who really took me in when, you know, he was in his early 70s. I was a little kid. I was struggling at school. My mother was very worried. And my grandfather had this way of teaching mathematics and science to kids. He had done that. He was orphaned Very early to earn money on the side and support his. His family and his mother. So, long story short, it's very hard when you give advice to family because you want them to follow your way of thinking, your religion, your way of dressing what you like to eat. It's just. It's DNA, you know, we pass on not only our genes, but our identities, our habits, and we are both fathers. So you know how hard it is not to tell your son what to do, right? And this was a person since I was. I remember I was younger than my middle son. So let's say I was 7 years old, I just turned 7, who I would go and ask for advice, what should I do? And never actually told me, not once. He raised me for about 10 years before I left to go to the US to do high school, finish high school on my own. And it is so consistent. He would help me think through the different options and what I like, what works, what doesn't work, but wouldn't tell me you should do it this way or that way. And When I was 10 or 11 years old, I was so independent. I was making decisions not 100% proper, but mostly proper decisions. Good for my future, good for the environment, thinking about other people, you know, aware, socially, politically, not just academically. And I think this discipline, I would say as a coach, to help your coachee or mentee figure it out, it takes longer, but it works much better. Instead of being prescriptive or dictatorial or rushing through the steps, well, why don't you just do this and it'll work. You know, that's very hard. And it's. People would now be thinking, well, this guy is saying that it's nice in a, you know, growing up as a kid situation, but I'm under pressure at work. People are missing deadlines and so on and so forth. But there's only one of you, and there's probably 5, 10, 15, 20 others you rely on, whether you have direct reports or not to be successful. How many people can you actually figure it out for? The point that I want to come back to is we are all products of our childhood much more than we realize. There's a lot of science behind this. Ashish, you taught me a lot of this, actually when you did the purpose reactivation work with us, you really, at Trivium asked us to figure out who we are, where we came from, as much as where we are today and where we want to go as an organization. And you made it very personal. So again, I think for all of us, it's important to really accept, understand and grow from where we originate and how we were raised and what worked well in our minds, what didn't work well, what made us happy, what didn't make us happy. So a lot of my style of coaching actually comes from my grandfather since I was a kid. Now half the time I struggle with that with my own children because of that propensity to pass on.

Yes, that's because we care so much.

Right?

Because we care so much.

And you know, it doesn't actually work no matter who you're dealing with, whether whether it's your spouse or your neighbor or your kid or your friend. And it takes so much effort to listen and understand people or individuals before you do more with them. You know.

We hope you're enjoying this episode and would love your help in spreading awareness and furthering our mission to help a billion people rewire for happiness. Please consider leaving us a review and sharing this podcast with others in your personal and professional life who you feel could benefit from some of these very insights. It's a really simple way to extend and spread positivity. Also, check out Rewire, our proprietary offering to move you from knowing to doing. On the Happiness Squad website, www.happinesssquad.com Rewire uses the science of habit formation and the power of community to help you build happier habits in five minutes or less daily. Now back to the episode. Yeah, and you know, literally this was the same point Jhanzeb, that I was coaching a CEO of a startup. You know, we're serving them, we're doing a pretty long journey. I mean, he's very thoughtful as a leader because he recognized, you know, you need to be superhuman in a startup given there's never enough resources. It's VC backed so like there's never enough resources. You have to meet these crazy, audacious goals. And so he's doing a nine month journey, investing and flourishing for his whole team, individually and as leaders.

That's fantastic. Most startups would see that as a luxury or a nice to have, but for someone to say that's a necessity, that's super rare.

He's like, we need to right otherwise. And you know, he had a very successful exit and he recognized that the sacrifices that he made the first time around, he doesn't want himself or anybody else to make. Right. But I'll tell you, the conversation I was having with him is, you know, he's like, he's struggling with a couple of his team around, like, why can't you know that I And he was like, in the mindset of I have to figure it out or I always have to figure it out. And this was the exact conversation that I was having. I'm like, it's fine now. But like, in effect, there are two things that are happening. Right. In fact, that why this is suboptimal, even though in the short term you might think it's getting you to the goal faster. The first one is you're basically making everybody else dependent on you. You're making them lazy like your grandfather. Rather than tell you the solution, you know, telling you what to do, he taught you how to think right, which serves you forever, right? So, one, you're not making people lazy because they always will come to you with, hey, what do you think I should do? And how many of those are you going to solve? Right to your point. But the second is, no matter who you are, we are living in a world that is moving so fast and things are changing so quickly. They will always have more data and they will always be able to respond quickly if what you told them actually stopped working. Right. Versus come back. So, like, this notion of you have to. You can't solve it for other people.

No. And, you know, this is. A lot of people call it holding others accountable. That's one way. I'm just trying to help the audience. Put it in your framework, because there's no right framework here. Right. But holding people accountable. Another way of looking at this, looking at this is when you treat people like this and you are willing to explore and listen and then offer advice, they're not afraid of raising their issues. You know, what I say is that in many ways, bad news is good news. That means that people are making things transparent. You know, good news is kind of no news. We can always talk about what's going well and that no news is bad news because that means, you know, if things seem, you know, too, too calm, too steady, something's about to happen in today's volatile world that no one's anticipating. And if someone comes to me with an issue, I generally encourage them to bring a solution every now and then. It's totally fine to say, I really tried, but I couldn't figure this out. Can you, can you help me or can you get others, this, this and this profile to help me? That should happen, you know, one in four or five cases, not more, because that's also a testament to people's capabilities. But it's so powerful also for leaders, whether you have direct reports or not, and influencers to be open when you are struggling and saying, I'm stuck, can someone help?

We have to normalize it versus help make people hide it. Right. Because then you get into trouble. So listen, you talked about this just briefly. Jahan, Seb, I remember the work we did together. You had called me, you're three, four years into a transformation, it's private equity back. And you called me around saying, hey, can you help us around the purpose journey to talk a little bit about what you were thinking and a little bit around what was the impact of that purpose activation that you experienced.

You know, again, we are all products of where we come from, more so than we realize because we think we're individuals, but you know, we are really influenced by our surroundings more than we admit. And I came to this industrial company from a medical device background and there the linkage to purpose is a bit easier, I would say, you know, because you're in hospitals and your devices are being used on human beings, you can really relate to the outcomes personally here we do sell essential products, but there's less of sentiment attached to them. Right. So I was missing this excitement in terms of what we are doing as people in this company. And you know, we have plenty of posters. We have plenty of posters that say all the right things that were created by focus groups. And I realized those are exactly that. No one's really talking about them. They don't seem to matter in day to day work. And it's not because of a lack of effort. You know, leaders try to refer to them every now and then, but it's completely disconnected. And then what I realized is there is a sense of purpose in very localized nodes. Either sales teams that are selling in a particular country or plants that are located in a community where they have local customers and a lot of employees work there for many years and are even second or third generation. So they're not lacking the purpose, but the power is to combine all of these little nuggets.

Yeah.

And elevate the purpose for the entire company.

Why?

Because in the end you also need to operate as a team, as part of a bigger organization. You're not, you know, I have 40 factories. We are not 40 companies. We are one company. And we have to find a way to join these nuggets and have a higher sense of purpose. Why? Because we have to operate as a team. You know, a local site is going to rely on some central capabilities. A country salesperson reports into a regional sales leader. So you get that. But then I thought, how are we going to do this in an authentic way that people relate with because it's very easy to then say, let's do a top down communication on new way of looking at our purpose. Let's give people posters, let's give people training materials. Let's make sure they use these in their local presentations. We actually didn't do any of that. We worked with you because I knew you would not come in with a cookie cutter approach from the happiness Squad. And you did a bunch of workshops where you basically tried to understand and you did understand what purpose means for these local nodes. And we identified those nodes intentionally because they were either representative of many other people or they were critical to the business success. Right. Once we did that, we then assessed the corporate purpose we have. Where is it working and where is it falling short? And then what we found out, it's not falling short because we need to edit the text. It's not falling short because the words are wrong. It's falling short because our middle managers in particular kind of do their own thing. And then we did a lot of work to connect those two. What's important to you locally? What's important to the company? Is it consistent? Yes or no. And most people realize it's more consistent than they thought. And then we role modeled a lot of the behaviors, both at the local level and the central level. We really celebrated. I just gave out. I had my annual leadership meeting in Croatia just a few days ago. One of the awards we have introduced now is well being and purpose.

Yeah.

Because we combine one leads to another. You know, you can say if you have a strong purpose, you'll feel better, you'll be happier, you'll lead people in a more, more effective way. And that went to someone who's been in our business for nearly 40 years. Wow. Someone who really cares about customers, about employees, would literally push himself under the bus to protect his team. But he's not protective in a way that accepts low performance. He's loyal, you know, and he holds people to a high standard. And this was the only award I gave 18 different awards in many different categories. Seven or eight categories. This was the only award where without me prompting, unrehearsed, we had 135 people out of 5,000. So key positions. Every single person instantaneously stood up and it was the longest round of ovation.

Wow.

Okay. And I actually, it had such a profound effect on me that I lost my words. You know, I was pretty well put together and it took me a few seconds and the two of us hugged after the fact. I reflect why reflected? Why is that this on paper, on the surface, has nothing to do with profit, cash flow, revenue, other KPIs. Why are people so invested in this award? And I really concluded three different things. First is maybe, I wouldn't say for the first time, but in a long time we rewarded someone for the right behaviors. This is your input versus output comment.

Right.

And we picked someone who in a private equity environment, it's very easy to say, oh, these people, they're old school, get them out of the way. We want to drive all this change. We don't need people resisting, you know, so a lot of these longer term employees and coworkers, they actually suffer in a change environment. Not because eventually they're unwilling, but they are judged and they're typecasted. You know, I don't want to use the word dinosaur, but I have to. People think they're dinosaurs.

Right?

And we, we showed that. Here is someone who's helping us lead and drive that change because he cares about the longevity of the company so much. The second reason was.

That we had.

Done all this work in purpose investing, in reactivating purpose, in well being, thanks to your help. That saying this is important for us to continue and we will recognize someone on an ongoing basis really mattered. Right? It really mattered. And this is now going to be a consistent thing. And the third reason was because this person individually has helped so many others and it's not because they reported to him or they were in his business units. He's like my Kevin Lobo at Stryker example, you know.

Yeah.

Genuinely helpful guy who if you reach out to, you know, I remember once I had a dinner event at my home. I invited my team and this gentleman was there and he serves a particular segment, it's seafood. And my friends from the neighborhood started asking him about sardines and herrings and all. And he was so passionate. He said, no, no, no, no, no, that's not how you catch this fish. This is what happens. And he had people around him. Right. So he has helped and touched so many people. And when you lift these people up, it really then others say, I want to be part of this team, you know.

Yeah. What you're describing in this, first of all, Jahanzeb, all the work, you know, that we do, I mean, this is one of the highlights of, you know, the work we did at Happiness Squad for us personally. And it wasn't the work per se, but it was because also how you showed up and how your leadership showed up, really, you were not checking the box because you already had a purpose statement, right? But you were really like, look, we need to activate it. We need to role model despite all the work, because the business was under a lot of pressure at that time too. We need to do this because you recognize this as kind of the core. It's a superpower. When people find why and they are also operating cohesively, there is so much more that is possible. But I want to talk a little bit about this person because the research, this is where I think you're living and breathing what we know from research. There's a professor who I love at Michigan, Ross. He's at the center for Positive Organization Scholarship. His name is Professor Kim Cameron. For the last 25 years, he has researched the effect of exactly people like these and he calls them positive energizers. And the impact of positive energizers of everybody around them and to significantly higher performance in teams and companies. Because they don't just affect people around them, they affect a much larger group than even the ones that report to people, reach out to them, even if there is no direct relationship, because they lift people up, they inspire them and they truly live this role models of meaning and well being and really caring for people and through that achieving the results. Right. They're not soft. Like this emotional intelligence discussion we were having earlier this week. Emotional intelligence does not equal being nice. Right. Like it's way more than that. So, you know, positive energizers, being easy. Yes.

Being nice is being easy. That's where it's a check the box. Sometimes it's not going very deep. Because if I'm going to tell you something that I fundamentally really believe in and let's call it feedback, it might affect in the short term how you look at me, I might be uncomfortable that you're going to dislike me. Right. So being nice doesn't actually mean you're being emotionally intelligent. I fully agree with this. I think if you want to be an effective change leader or any kind of coworker, speaking truly and honestly about how you feel, how things are going, and then also be willing to receive it, that's what creates a special culture. It's even hard with your spouse. I mean, it's hard with your loved ones because of course, how many times do you bite your tongue and say, well, if I bring that up, that might lead to a fight, but if you keep doing that over and over and over again, it's going to be a negative in your long term relationship.

It always is. It always is. Jahanzeb, talk to me a little bit around mentorship because, you know, you've mentioned people who mentored you. You mentor so many. But one of the things that you all have running is a mentorship program. So talk a little bit about.

Thanks for participating our cohort. This is the second cohort I'm doing at Trivium. When I say I'm doing, I'm now sponsoring it. First one I was hands on with. The second one, I actually have two co leaders doing a fantastic job. You know, one of them, it's a lady and a guy. So I basically do some coaching or I join every now and then and share my thoughts or answer questions. And you led this session on emotional intelligence, which the cohort selected. We let them choose one topic. It can be any topic. And this time the majority wanted something on emotional intelligence. Look, unfortunately, you know, like we said, no individual has time to coach and mentor and develop multiple people. There's a limit. A lot of research will actually tell you you can't do, depending on the context, between 8 to 12 people max. So if I'm in a 5,000 person organization, how am I going to multiply that level of self awareness, understanding yourself? Where do you come from? Does this company fit your way of thinking? Are you at the right place? Can you be authentic? How do you create a culture where everyone can be open? You need a multiplier effect. So we do. Every company does this differently. The first time I did this was in my previous job, the medical device company I led. And it was highly effective. So for me, it's become a little bit of a trick to get people at a different level of development at a much accelerated pace. It takes a lot of personal time and commitment because a lot of it we do ourselves. And I have helped create and deliver that content. But long story short, we take 25 to 30 pairs. Mentor Mentee diversity and inclusivity is a major selection criteria. It's a criterion. Diversity and inclusivity would be in our top three. The other one is how much of potential does the mentee have to develop into a leadership role and how much of track record does the mentor have of coaching others? And this can really take their game to the next level. They might not get a promotion anymore, but they'll become happier.

Yeah, everybody wants to coach and give.

Yeah. And then the third one obviously is how critical are their jobs to the outcomes for the company. But that's, that's a distant third. So we have a lot of people from different countries. We have a balance of gender, religious Background, ethnic background, sexual orientations. Of course, a lot of this stuff is private. Right. But some people are very open about who they are. So we do the best we can to mix it up. And a lot of people start skeptical. We do this over a six month period. There's a online event every three or four weeks. So let's say you have eight or so events, including kickoff and wrap up. There's a lot of homework and exercises that are assigned for people to do in pairs. And we share openly. We have guest speakers like yourself. It's an investment of 90 minutes max every session. Your training was 90 minutes. Some are even 75 minutes.

And they're every week Hanzeb or every month or how. What's the frequency?

So in six months we do about eight or nine sessions. So every three weeks or so we need to give people time to do these exercises. You know, these exercises have to do with planning your development, relating that with your strengths, relating that with who you have become, you know, consciously or unconsciously, what habits do you want to change? Why is it important to you? And then a whole process of walking people through that. For example, emotional intelligence being a tool that a lot of people felt needs to be enhanced. And that's where you came in. The satisfaction level is extremely high. I've also had people quit after these programs. Not that many, but you know, one or two after a quote or sometimes three. It's typical because they say, hey, this made me very self aware that life is too short and I'm not happy here. I'm not going to be happy here. And thank you for making me aware. Is it okay if I leave and we say, you know, hallelujah, yes, because you're either going to become a supplier at some point or a customer or a reference and if nothing else, a happy human being.

Well, it's investing in long term and making sure goes back to kind of this point around flourishing. In the end, it's about caring about people and making sure they're developing. And I love the point that you make. I'm not sure many leaders would say that, to say, hey listen, if I have a great person, I would rather see them grow and go somewhere else rather than keep them constrained if there isn't. And I think being able to see the potential in another person, show it to them, but like also set them free. I think it's such a, that's what.

Attracts more talent, such a talent. And you know, we have succession plans. We don't have critical positions where we don't Develop successors, all of that. You know, the problem is when you have to wait for people to retire to elevate others, you either need to have a rotational program or a way to create opportunity. Otherwise the high performers leave. They leave first. They vote with their feet, not with their mouths.

Right, so just a couple of questions, Jahanze, as we wrap up. We can hope, you know, we can chat for so much longer, my friend. We'd love to have you back at some point. One is, look, there is a lot that you have to juggle, right? You're now running a $2 billion, close to a $2 billion division. 4,050 plants, multiple countries in a private equity setting, right? It was a major turnaround. So that's a lot. How do you make sure. What are some personal practices that are your go to. To make sure you are filling your cup to be the best leader for others?

You know, I will actually share a few cliches because I really believe in them. First of all is I'm not alone. I can actually, if you gave me five minutes, I could write their names down without looking at any data. I have around 35 leaders who are, I don't say this in a, let's say, manipulative or condescending way, but they're mini me's. All the best rates I have. There's other people, you know, 35 or so, plus or minus, whatever. A couple who are leading a function or leading a business or leading a sales team where when I walk into a room, they don't sit up straight, you know, they keep sitting like they're sitting and they say, hey, how's it going? And we have a conversation and we are equals. So the hierarchy doesn't matter. So you can only juggle things. And it takes a while, but it shouldn't take more than two or three years to have the right number of high performing people around you. Which doesn't mean new people. Most of those people, a vast majority, are legacy people, where we have given them an unlock to be themselves, to speak up more, to not feel like I brought this up so many times, no one cares, right? So that's number one. Number two is brutal prioritization to a fault. We generate eight or ten ideas in any major strategy workshop or how do we go into the future? We pick no more than three. You can't do more than that from a bandwidth standpoint or a capital deployment standpoint. The ones we pick, we really go deep and fast. And if they're not working, we say made a mistake, cut it let's not do that again. So the other thing to juggle many things is to have the right ones and as few as possible. You know, I can tell you that there's three things we are working on now. After our Croatia leadership meeting, we validated them and everyone's pulling the rope in the same direction. And it takes a lot of realignment, refresh, communication, team building to cascade it down, you know, to the frontline, whether it's the sales frontline or the manufacturing frontline. Now, having shared that personally for me, how do I keep my cup full? You know, I learned to be more self aware and accepting of how I feel without judging it. It's the hardest thing to do because sure, you know, I'm my own worst critic. Like many of us are. People who are listening into this are their own worst critic. But days where I'm feeling a little blue or feeling a little, I'm running out of steam or I'm unhappy with someone or something, instead of judging, I let that sink in and then I figure out should I do something? And how it's not always perfect because I told you about a co worker who keeps me centered. So every now and then I also react, but mostly I reflect and it's okay to be down. We are all humans, even the world's strongest people, mental or physical.

And I think it is so important, you know, because most people, I think I want folks to think about this. Most people either numb the emotion or they act it out. But what you're talking about is the middle path, acceptance and just being with. I don't have to act it. I'm feeling this way. I know it's not going to last forever, but I also want to be able to make it an object. Why do I feel this way? What is my role in it? What is another's role in it? So you can find the answer in a lot more clearly thinking fashion versus under the shadow of that emotion.

Yeah. The second thing real quick is that's all correct, Ashish. I fully agree. The second thing is, you know, this is also correlated to things like lifespan. In everyone's life, there's someone who's a living being. It can be a pet, it can be a human, it can be multiple humans. That gives you meaning, spending time and quality time. It doesn't mean a long period of time, feeling connected, being able to talk, being able to share, being able to receive. So whoever is important to you, whether it's a current friend, an old friend you haven't talked to, etcetera make time. This whole thing, I'm so busy, I'll make time and I can. That's just an excuse. It'll never happen. So having this human touch, it could be your church, your mosque, your synagogue, your temple. It doesn't matter, right? Whatever it is, you need to make time. A few hours, a week, could be 2, could be 10. Where you connect with people at a human level that really also reminds you the human condition. You're not alone. You're not the only one feeling a certain way. There's many others who are in a worse position. It also reminds you to be grateful. Right? So I think that's the. That's the second practice that works for everyone. The third one is something that works for me. And sometimes it backfires. But I'm more than happy to live with the consequences. Jahanzeb does what Jahanzeb think is right. And you know, Ashish, I got used to get into trouble at McKinsey for speaking my mind when everyone would say, why did you say that? Well, I really believe it and I've thought about it and I have to share it. And if you want to, you know, give me some consequences, I will live with them. That doesn't work for everyone. Some people need to be more diplomatic. Some people need the job more than. They don't want to take risks, right? So I don't. This is one that's very, very deeply personal. The moment I start to compromise on what I think is right and do something different, it really backfires because I can't sleep at night for no other reason. And for someone else, it could be different. Personal note start. Mine is, I do what I think is right. It doesn't mean I always make the right decisions. I've made plenty of mistakes. For example, this whole notion of actually being patient with people who have experience and building on their experience to drive change. I've made mistakes on this. I let go of some experienced people in a different job too quickly, didn't realize the negative repercussions and the message it sends. And then I realized it was a profound mistake, one that I never made again. But I had to learn the hard way by actually making the mistake. And to those people, I asked for their forgiveness. And I forgive myself for those mistakes because they were not poorly intentioned, they were not personal. But I could have done many things better. So I guess that would be a summary.

I love it. This has been such a full conversation, so, so full of insights to hands. I'm just, you know, really grateful to my friend. Have you as a friend, have you as a client, have you as a colleague, right when we work together, you truly are an amazing leader and the company is lucky to have you. Thank you for keep doing the wonderful work that you're doing and really being a shining role model for what a great leader can be and how through investing in our people really authentically, right in a natural way, you actually can deliver great results. You can be successful. We don't have to trot on people. We don't have to burn them out. Thank you. Thank you for being a role model of that. I appreciated this conversation so much.

Thanks for all your help Ashish along the way. You know it took a lot of work and still a work in progress. So good luck with everything.

Thank you. That wraps up another episode of the Happiness Squad podcast. We hope you found the insights actionable to enhance your journey towards happiness and fill your life with more joy, health, love and meaning. Please consider leaving us. Review and share the podcast with anyone in your professional or personal life who you feel will benefit from some of these very insights. It's a really simple way to extend support and spread positivity. Take care and remember, happiness is a choice that's available to you moment to moment in the here and now. Take care and see you next week.