How to Shift from Reacting to Responding When Facing Triggers with Renelle Everett Darr

We're always trying to just stay on the positive side or the affirmation side. And if we don't bring some of the shadow, the dark, the triggers, if we don't bring that up and bring that to the light, it just persists.

Welcome to the Happiness Squad podcast. Your weekly dose of practical tips and inspirations to help you operate at your fullest potential by integrating the science of flourishing into how you live, work and lead. In each episode we will share insights, tips and stories from leading experts, company executives and flourishing solution providers that you can implement right away to make happiness your competitive edge and find more success, joy, health, love and meaning in everything you do. Hello friends. I'm Ashish Kothari, the CEO of Happiness Squad and welcome to our podcast where we share practical tips to make flourishing your competitive edge and achieve stellar performance powered by well being, but not at its expense. I'm on a mission to help 1 billion people not just experience happiness as an emotion, but use it as as a tool to unlock their fullest potential. If you're interested in learning how to make happiness your competitive edge, make sure to follow me on LinkedIn and subscribe to our newsletter@happinesssquad.com today I'm thrilled to be joined by Renell Everett Dar, a pioneering leadership coach who transforms organizations, helping leaders replace burnout with purpose and fostering emotional intelligence at all levels. Her work inspires and empowers teams to redefine leadership through courage, connection and impact. In our conversation today, we delve into the journey of leadership as a lifelong path of self discovery and growth. Rene and I explore the importance of self awareness and how we can learn to move from reacting to responding to increase our impact and improve our well being. We delved deep into the world of triggers, the underlying beliefs behind them, and how our early childhood and formative years shaped them. We also offer a three step, powerful approach to move from reacting to responding that you can start to use right away in your day to day life. So let's get started. Hi dear Renel, it is so lovely finally to have you on our podcast. I know we've been talking for a while, so welcome to the show.

Thank you Ashish. It's nice to be here.

So Renelle, you are a deep, deep expert in helping leaders cultivate environments where burnout is replaced with purpose, emotional intelligence and really flourishing. So I want to talk a little bit about what has been your path to this work? Like what brought you to this work and keeps you on the path?

Yeah, absolutely. Great question. Well, I think that when I went to college, I thought that business was all about numbers. And so that the innate being in me was slightly different than most people. They get finance degrees, but I got that degree and it went straight into business and straight into the big firms. So then named Ernst and Young, I think now, now we call it EY as well as Deloitte. And I spent a lot of time, you know, from the very beginning, working with executives. From the very beginning, from, as you know, working in the firms, they. We just get thrown into working with executives. And I very, very quickly one realized that I probably would or actually I was told I was the artsiest, farsiest accountant they'd ever met. So I pretty quickly transferred into consulting. And at the same time, I got this deep early on, this deep respect for, oh, here's the people and the numbers. The people and the analytics, like they go, go together. They aren't separate. Business isn't all about numbers, and business really is all about people. But there's that balance there. And so from the external world, I got such a great, you know, just a great overview. I worked, you know, many businesses, many global businesses, different types of businesses. But I would say what has really been my path to this work is as I was doing deep organizational change and I was growing as a leader. I. I noticed both in the clients we were serving, that all of our problems were generally around what was going on within people and leaders. And that we would say it was the process or the structure. And the same goes with my growth as a human and as a leader is most of the challenges I ran into were things within me and beliefs within me and growth I needed to do. So I would say it was the combination of the deep inner work that I was willing to do as well as looking at the outside world, the world I was working in of seeing that processes and a structure is important. What's going on within the leaders who are really the architects of culture, that is what really is going to make the difference. So the path of self and the path of getting to see lots of organizational transformation.

So talk to me a little bit about, you know, on this path, path to self, path to kind of inner development. What were some ways that, you know, what were some things that helped you to kind of really know yourself and became those growth edges for you? Like what was some from. To shifts, for example, in that journey? I'm curious about.

Oh, absolutely. Well, I had my first executive coach. I think I was in my early 30s. And I am so grateful for that because the amount of training I had done, it was just nothing compared to that deep work with that executive coach. And so that was my first array into the deep emotional intelligence, the deep self awareness. And so even so, one of the first things that I remember working on was responding versus reacting in such a fast paced world that I, that I was living in. I found myself the more things became complex. I was reacting to things and learning to respond. But learning to respond was not necessarily, didn't become an external shift until I understood what was driving me inside to react so fast. And I had grown up kind of in that perfectionist that I work harder, things are perfect, then I will be enough. And so I hadn't even realized how much that was driving me. And almost to a point of burnout of I have to be better, I have to be better, I have to be perfect. And you know, I, you know, we worked in a, in these firms with some of the smartest people, I'm surrounded by some of the smartest people in the world. And so just constantly thinking, I have to be better, I have to be better. But what happened eventually is that that started to burn me out and I wasn't getting better because I was in constant movement. And so I actually had to learn to be. And learning to be is how I really started to grow. Which is such a paradox.

It truly is. And it is a place that is so well known to me. You know, I've talked about it on the podcast and this notion of working harder and going for perfection, you know, has been, was my shadow side for a long while. That also propelled me to unbelievable levels of success. But also, you know, insight was kind of a big source of anxiety for me throughout. But I, you know, I want to just play back to our listeners this notion, this shift, one of the shifts that you talk about, which is a very powerful shift because I don't think people fully understand respond versus react. So when we are reacting fundamentally, right, we are operating from a place of fear. We are playing to address, oh my God, something's not going to go right. And often the reaction is from this place of the limbic. It's our fight, flight, freeze. It's our kind of ancient system which is very survival driven, right? That's I think is where we are reacting from. And I think this notion, I think it's such a powerful shift, which is notice if you are in the grips of that reactive fight, flight, freeze mode, adrenaline and cortisol going through your body. And this notion of choosing to train ourselves to shift Come back, bring our brain back online and respond not out of fear, but out of intention of what we are trying to create. It's such an important shift.

Oh, absolutely. And even if it's about, you mentioned the fight, flight or freeze, and it's, it's about being in our body. And so many times we're walking around and we're, we're so in our analytical mind and not in our body. And if we're not in our body, we cannot shift. And so that part of that shift is recognizing the fear for what it is. Like, it's not necessarily saying, go away, go away. Because that makes us react even more. It's like, oh, there you are. Ha. I feel you in my body and I'm going to make a different choice this time.

Yeah. So let's talk a bit about that. What are the signs that we are in reaction? That if somebody is listening and they want to say, huh, interesting concept. Am I reacting or am I responding? How do they know that they are in reactive mode right now?

Great question. So I will start with one of the things that we, that I do with clients is I send them home with a trigger awareness journal. And so we talk through, well, what does it mean to be triggered? And it's like, well, there's usually something in your body that makes you just like, you know, it might be in your chest, it might be in your shoulders, it might be. And it's, it's, it might be in your stomach. It's different for everyone, but it, but it's absolutely in your body. And so I have people start with, just to walk around and just look about, like, where do you then notice that? And they write it down for a week and are just amazed about how triggered they actually get. And I'm like, let's, and let's take the judgment away. We're human. Let's just look at it. And when we're driving, you know, when somebody doesn't, you know, somebody sends us an email with a response that, that, that we don't like. And it, something happens and, and then we next start to think, well, it's usually attached to some other story when. And so some other story. And so we get deeper into like, what are the stories and beliefs that, that we grow up with. So on a longer term, it's like I feel something in my body and I get deeper into what story is this really, is this really activating? And then can I turn around and say, well, what's the truth here? Of I just don't like it when people use that language in an email, how could I one understand they probably didn't use that language in the way I'm taking it. And at the same time could I respond in a way and let them know what I need? And so, but it takes, it takes slowing down for a minute and we're a pretty, pretty fast paced world. And so, and so I always feel it's, it's a, maybe it will slow you down a little bit. You'll be short term, less efficient, but long term you're going to make huge gains and huge efficiencies.

I love that idea. You know, in, in the work we do around flourishing. Awareness is at the heart of the models we actually use individual and organizational. We talk about triggers, we talk about triggers and how do you sense into it. But I really like this idea renal of this trigger journal and I can almost friends and think about putting this together for you even right now. Take a piece of page, draw two lines on it. So now you have three columns. Okay, Step number one on the first column just I think you're going to write down every time you feel that you are triggered, which means you're going to tune into I'm feeling angry. Or it might be an emotion of anger, anxiety, fear, frustration. Just think about all those things that we don't like, right?

Or sensation in your body also it's like, oh, so that.

Exactly. Yeah, no, exactly. So like emotion, just I'm angry, I'm frustrated, you know, whatever. Or to your point, body, right? And body could be tightness in the chest, shorter breath, heat, whatever it is, write it down. I love your second one. Which is to say then what has happened? It was the email. Was it something somebody did? Was it a situation? Was it somebody cut you off? Was it something somebody said? Literally, verbatim, write it down, don't make sense of it. Just write down what it was. And then maybe if you have a moment, if you can do it right there, or if definitely not at the end of the day, go behind each one of them and write down. I love this, what you just said. Write down what was the story? What was your story? Why was that email so triggering for you? What was the story? And it might be something like this person is disrespectful and right. So maybe that's the third thing that you write down and you start to notice the patterns around it. By the way, you might want to add one more column now that I think about it, which is what's the story? And fourth is where did I learn it?

Right. Where did I learn it?

So it might be that.

What's a reframing?

Yeah, what's the reframing? Right. Because I'm just thinking, you know, for me, like, oftentimes I go back to if somebody's rude. Maybe the reason I find rude people rude is because I have a fear that I am rude. And maybe early on in my life, somebody told me, don't be rude. And that's a core value. So every time I see somebody being rude, I'm going back. And that's why I have this reaction. Right. But I'd really like it because I don't think we have ever told our clients to go write down how often are you triggered, and is there a pattern here?

Well, and sometimes that's what gets in our way of shifting, is that we're always trying to just stay on, I'll say the positive side or the affirmation side. And if we don't bring some of the shadow, the dark, the triggers, if we don't bring that up and bring that to the light, it just persists. But you also brought up another point, Ashish, as you brought up values. And so that's like almost the counter that we're, you know, we're always looking at the tension of the fear and the purpose. And so the counter is like, am I also really aware of my values? And they change over time. Right. So am I aware of what I value in this time period of my life? And am I actually living into my values or not? And that's. That can be really interesting as well. Of, like you said, like, I really value, let's say, kindness or politeness or whatever that might be. And I just realized that I'm not even, like, living that in my life right now because I'm say I'm in some environment that doesn't seem to value that or whatever it may be.

Totally.

And so it's this constant. We're playing with the tension of, oh, I see my triggers, I know my values, I see my triggers. And we're loosening it up. And it's not an either or thing. It's. It's a both.

And so I know I'm triggered. I've written my journal. I have, over time, a day, two days, five days, seven days, starting to see these core kind of underlying stories and things that are making me be in this way. How do you then take that? There's a big gap between noticing and choosing to do something else. We have to cross this chasm so what are some ways in which you personally and you teach leaders to go walk the bridge? First build the bridge. And go walk the bridge from reacting to responding.

Yeah, multiple ways. Lots of practice. It's not like something that's like, oh, three easy steps, and here you go. So we're, you know, we're really rewiring and reprogramming our neurotransmitters physiologically in our brain. I mean, that's what we're doing technically, with any exercise that we do. Though, the one thing is getting people in touch with, to your point, their stories and their beliefs. Of, like, understanding where my triggers come from and the story. Like, sometimes I'll ask people to write a biography of their life. Where do you think this trigger comes from? And all of a sudden, it's like, I didn't even realize that this reason that I work so hard and exhaust myself is because of this thing that happened to me when I was a kid. And I've been walking around my whole life with this belief, and right there, it just loosens it up. And so that's one way is to just really start seeing where it comes from. And when we start seeing where it comes from, sometimes that's. That's what it takes. Other times it's, you know, it's really deeply within us. So we've just got to keep looking at that. Keep looking at that. What is that? And we do little experiments of, like, I can't imagine doing things another way. Like, my system is so locked into this way. And so we just do little experiments. I call them safe to fail experiments. So, like, well, what's one thing that kind of goes against how you'd normally do things and try something new, and you're starting to train your system to feel a little safer that way. Another fun thing I like to play with, with people is their parts. As we start to look at, like, we have so many parts within us. So what part of you doesn't feel safe? What part of. Well, you know, what part of me always felt I had to work harder? And why is that? And so I have this. This part of me named Irritable Isabel that she just. She's like my inner teenager. And she's the first person to show up when there's some fear, but she shows up as frustration. And so I just start to, you know, I was like, there she is. And we start to look at those parts of ourselves and start to reintegrate them. So it can be as simple as, oh, my goodness, I didn't even realize this is what was driving that reaction to, oh, it's going to take me some time to really get in there and look at what is this. And the simplest bridge of all, which seems cliche, is the breath. I mean, our breath completely changes our state. And so what can I just literally take a breath and, you know, and like, like, really, come on, it's like, it is amazing the power of that deep, deep breath to just really shift our system that is. Is really feeling unsafe, right? It's in fight or flight or freeze. And that will just reset us.

Enjoying this episode. If you think someone you know could benefit from these insights, why not share the podcast with them right away? A quick share could make a big difference in someone's day. Thanks for spreading the happiness and being part of this happiness revolution with us. Is there a particular way you invite people to breathe? Like, is there a pattern breathing pattern that you want people that you found to be most effective, or is it just paying attention to your breath?

Well, I think when we're just talking about, you know, breathing in the moment, I think it's about taking, I'll say, have your exhale be longer than your inhale because that brings our parasympathetic system online when we're really trying to shift, use our breath to like, you know, work over and over to shift out of some blocks. I have a breathing technique, I think I have a video on YouTube about how to do it, but it's about like this deep internal breath through your nose and tightening your lower three chakras and then holding it on your crown chakra and then letting it out and doing this over and over again to start opening up, you know, your, your system, your pineal gland. So that's a, you know, much. A much deeper practice.

But for those who are listening even try, you know, I think the simple, simple, you can do one of two things. This one that's simple Renal just talked about. Just count. Breathe into your four, right? Just pay attention. Breathe in to four and breathe out through six. And you can play with does breathing out from your mouth almost like blowing it as if you're blowing into a straw. In six helps you more. Or does it in and out from your nose. But try that 4, 6, because it's a powerful way to regulate out of our sympathetic, which is this fight, flight, freeze to parasympathetic so that you can do the work that the other different levers that Rennell talked about, which is from that place. Now that your brain, your cognitive brain is back Online, you're not in this limbic kind of ancient part of your brain. You can now start to look at those two or three things that Renal mentioned. One, where did I learn it? How old is this story? Second is this part of me consistently shows up. She called it, you called it angry. Irritable, Irritable, irritable Isabel. Right. Where does that show up? So think a little bit about where that is. And I think also in the earlier part you mentioned think about values. Right. Think about the bigger intention you're holding. And so I might right now in spite, wanna tell somebody off. But if you really in a bigger picture are trying to create more collaborative, growth oriented space, maybe you hold that value and intention higher and instead of telling somebody, you respond differently.

Exactly.

You ask a question to understand where somebody's coming from versus tell them they're stupid or this doesn't make any sense. Right. And that's the difference between reacting and responding. And I think it's important because in our ever busy world you might be like, I know the answer, what you're saying doesn't make sense. So I'm just going to tell you that and move on. And you're limiting growth. But more importantly yourself will go away with these stories of like, oh my God, I have to do all the hard work and look at all my team and we're stuck in this reactive pattern. And I also like this idea of look, friends, you're not going to change this. These patterns get ingrained in us. You know, I had a story I picked up from an early, early age at 7, around perfection is what mattered. And if I needed to be loved, I needed to be perfect. And that helped me for a huge number of years. That got me into the top school in India, got me at 23 into the US I made partner at McKinsey in six and a half years. It was at the heart of my success. So it was like it was a friend, right? Absolutely, it was a friend. Like that reactive story was a friend. I mean it was like, I'm going to work harder than ever. I'm going to make everybody work harder than ever just so that we can be perfect and this is successful. I'm not going to be successful.

I'm not going to let go of this. This is what made me successful. Yeah.

So I think that, that we hold. So we're not going to get rid of that. You know, I don't know how long your pattern is. Those who are listening, is it 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, 40 years? You'll know it. But 40 years of being in a way doesn't change overnight. There are no one, two, three quicksilver bullets. And so I really also like Brunel your invitation. Try fail to save experiments. Don't start with a highest stake meeting. Go start with a small meeting, right? Where it doesn't matter if you choose to do something different, like the stakes are very low. And then start to see what shifts as you choose to respond differently.

Right. The other thing too, as we start to do that work, it is really good for business, it is really good for our teams. And it ultimately feels so much better. Like our, you know, the core of who we are. When we're coming from that place and we're shifting, you know, out of that place of fear, well, recognizing it and being okay with it and not trying to shut it down. We feel better like it is. We're using our energy in such a different way. So not only is it totally much more effective and communication and productivity and all that, but it actually feels good and that there's something to that. Right. Like you talk about flourishing. I mean that's a way to flourish, is to feel good inside.

It is the most powerful way. That's why, you know this, we almost, when we start our flourishing programs, we start with awareness. And the first practice that we teach leaders is awareness. Pause, shift, aps, become aware of your reactive structures and where they're coming from. And the mindsets pause and then shift. Choose to shift because without it. You know, when we were, I was doing this research when I was at McKinsey, right? If you are a senior leader and you're constantly guess all the meetings, all the problems that are being, you know, shown to you, they're all problems like very rarely are things being fed to you that are wonderful, great things, right? And so you are in reactive seven, eight, nine hours. That means you're running on adrenaline and cortisol. If your mindset is I need to be in control, this needs to be perfect, it's my responsibility. And if I fail, I am not worthy. That's the structure. And so just even as you hear it, think about what it feels like. We're always on edge, we're always, always irritable. And oh, by the way, if you combine that with I work in a global place firm, which means I am not sleeping enough, you know, there's a much higher level of irritability that comes with it. You are in full on reactive, dear friends. And so if you want to say, you know, I want my People to flourish. I want to flourish. This is the first move you've got to make is start working on yourself. And it'll feel good because if you are less, if you get out of reacting versus responding, the parasympathetic nervous system is the rest digest recovery, which means your heart rate is slower, you feel more at ease, you start to tune into what's actually good here. You start to celebrate the wins. You start to recognize what you are trying to control or what you're really worried about happening in the grand big picture is not going to matter. It's really not that big of a deal. And by the way, all you can choose to do is respond to what's being present because control is an illusion in our world. Control is an illusion.

Absolutely. And it's like, okay, there are problems in front of me and I can look at them of how do I make this problem go away? And I can also look at it as what outcome are we trying to achieve here? And it is a very different internal feeling when I'm trying to make problems go away as opposed to I'm trying to create different outcomes or what outcome are we really trying to create here? And it makes such a difference. And you know, it's funny Ashish, when you talk about like, I don't know about you, but when most people start the work, they think what they want to do is, oh, I need to better delegate, I need to better manage conflict, I need to better communicate. And all those things are true, but those are all external behaviors driven by our internal self awareness and self management. And so even if those are the goals, we still have to start. We aren't going to change how we conflict or we aren't going to change how we delegate until we figure out internally why we do what we do.

Yeah. And it's a lifelong journey. So I have a question I want to ask you and I'll share my answer to this too. You know, react to respond. That shift is a lifelong journey. You're never really done with it.

Correct?

Right. I'm sure you are still on that path. I very much am. Like 10 years in, I'm on this path. Right. Like I'm still on this path. And I think I want to bring this notion of humility to this work that people do because somebody might listen to it and they're like, oh great, I'm going to do it. And they fail and they're like, you know what, I'm not good at this, I'm not going to do it. This is Lifelong work. So here's my question, okay. 10, 12, 15 years on this path, Renell, or maybe even longer for you, what is that one thing that still brings out Isabella out? Like, what is that one thing that as much as you're like, you know what, I go there right away and then you might decide afterwards what triggers you still, what is the fastest trigger for you? Even now?

I think the fastest trigger for me is when I feel misunderstood. So there's just. I'm better at communicating than I used to. I better, you know, I'm better presence maybe than I used to. And still I get tired. I don't say exactly the right thing. Someone has a different right, they have their different belief systems that might help them or so they see things differently than the way I mean it. And it's just something like when there were high stakes conversation and I don't feel heard, I feel misunderstood. I can immediately go to that place of oh well, you know, the first thing is, well, that's frustrating that I feel misunderstood. But even down deeper it's like this little girl and me that's like I feel so sad actually that someone misunderstood me. And so, you know, irritable Isabel is. Is inner teenager. But it's really the little girl that's pretty sad that she feels misunderstood. It could be, it could be anything that I can go there pretty quickly. I recover and return to center so much quicker now. Cause I'm so aware of my stories, especially if something's really important to me and I think that's where, where I can because my value in something is so high and it might not be someone else's value. So it's just whatever it might be that I feel misunderstood can still really trigger me quite a bit.

And when you go back, what was, if you're open to sharing, what was the situation where this really. When was the first time irritable Isabel showed up for you? What was the situation where it became so that pattern like the first seed was sown? You know, we always talk about these seeds live in us. Seeds of positive and negative all live in us. I'm curious about when was that seed first sown?

Yeah, that is such a great question. It is definitely somewhere in my teenage years. Can I tell you, like, can I go back? I'm going to take this as homework and I'll email you later. But what like I know it was somewhere as a teenager because it's really that inner teenager in me that, that I learned to, to utilize frustration and kind of like, you know, I wasn't a flight one. I was more of a fight one of, like, I work harder, you know, and it was. There's something about that frustration as a teenager that fueled me that I seemed to just take right on with me to college right on with me. And so for whatever reason, she. I wish I could remember. I mean, I don't know. But it was definitely something in my teenage years where I learned that as a really incredibly successful strategy that took me right into perfectionism.

Yeah. You know, for me, I've learned. I mean, I used to be constantly on, like. In terms of, like, super on edge. Right. Had this whole thing around control. So what still triggers me the most, like, most things, I'm actually pretty good. And even though my face might not suggest it, I can kind of, you know, use my breath, regulate down. But one area that I continue where many times I am not able to stop myself fast enough from reacting and that I have to go back and apologize is actually my conversations with my son where, you know, I'll see a behavior. He's an unbelievable kid. He's the kindest kid. He is, like, so full of life. But when it comes to his studies or preparation or others, and I'll see a behavior and I just lose it. And many times, and it's very painful because I don't want to, you know, and then I will go back and I will always apologize and say I'm sorry. I will react out of proportion here. And he also, like, I think we've. We have, like, we have so much love. And he's like, yeah, I know. It's okay. And I'm like, no, it's not okay. And I want you to know it's not okay. But I also want you to know it is okay to lose it, because as you know, I'm like, choosing to grow from it. But, you know, for me, I think that is basically. Even though in my own life and the business, in the relationships with others, I've learned to drop that story of you have to be perfect to be loved and liked, etc. There was another part of that story as I started to kind of play with, like, why is it. Why is it that, you know, my conversations with him still trigger me so much? And it got back to a second part of that story that I've never really fully acknowledged, that for me, it was also the story of success. If you want to be successful, you have to be perfect, but a much higher level. More, actually, it wasn't even about success. I grew up in A middle class. In the 70s, India was 30, 40 years post independence. We were still huge disproportion between resources and opportunities that were there. Like, I mean, 10 is to one. Okay, 10 is to one. And so there was an implicit story there that you picked up that say, perfectionism wasn't about thriving and being happy. Perfectionism was about survival. And even though we are in, you know, 40 years forward, right, like, from that, from that conversation, completely different set of circumstances, completely different country. We are in a completely different financial position. He is completely different than I am. That thing of, like, if he is doing something where I'm like, oh, that is not gonna help you be successful, hence, it's gonna make you on the streets. You're gonna be living like a hobo on the streets. You're not gonna be able to take care of yourself. And that's what still triggers me. And it's so crazy.

Well, those old stories are still in our bodies, and I don't think it's crazy at all. First of all, what I think is beautiful is one that you're aware of it. Our children, they can create some of our biggest triggers, right? Because we want so much for them and they reflect parts of us, et cetera. The most beautiful thing you said in all of that for me is the repair is so many people too. We make a mistake like that, and we become very reactive, and we're so shameful of it, and we don't repair it, and then we just swallow it down. So your son is now seeing that, look, I'm not perfect. I made a mistake and I repaired it with you. And then he will learn that, oh, I can make mistakes and I can repair with people. I think that's was one of the most beautiful things you said is I'm still carrying this around and I see this. But you also said you're sorry and repaired. Instead of just being like, I'm the adult here, or I'm the boss here, whatever it might be, right. If it's in the workplace and just walk away and ignore it because of a deeper shame. And you've released that by being able to repair.

Thank you for mirroring and sharing that back. Yeah, it's a lifelong thing for me. I mean, it's something that I'm deeply committed to. And I think this might be a good place for us to wrap. I think we maybe do a series together because there were three other topics we wanted to talk about. There is so much we can talk about purpose. I wanted to talk about emotional intelligence. And conscious leadership. Three topics that I deeply care about, you deeply care about. Maybe we do a series over the next over 20, 25 together or in terms of episodes. But friends, take away. If there is one thing you take away from this conversation, take away this one thing. Respond versus react. Notice when you are in reactive mode. Recognize that yes there is external things, but majority of the reaction is coming from our own story and experience and belief and something we are carrying. Choose to use pause, breath and taking a break. Lots of different ways to kind of be able to shift back into more of a creative place. Parasympathetic versus sympathetic nervous system. You'll feel it in your body. Get to a place of love, get to a place of peace, get to a place of calm, joy, gratitude. And then from that place, try to respond based on your values, based on kind of the higher purpose you're going for. Keep a trigger journal. You'll be surprised by how many times in the day are you triggered. And I really hope that you're able to go on this journey listening to this podcast. You can of course go Renal will put on our show notes how to get to reach you. You can reach out to Renell, you can reach out to me. But really I think this, this is the step number one of healing ourselves as individuals so we can choose to show up and create a different world. You know, Gandhi said it best be the change you want to see in the world. So if you don't like the world, and I don't like the world right now that much in the middle of the political kind of rancor and season we're in. But if we want to change, we can't change outside unless we change inside.

Absolutely. I mean, that is the core thing of if we want to make collective change, we start with ourselves.

Thank you for joining me this morning. I know you have a really busy day. Renal. I'm so filled with this conversation and I know our listeners will be too. Thank you for the beautiful work you do. I'm grateful to have you as a friend.

Thank you. As you said, I'm grateful for you and thank you for not only are we talking to others, but we're on our own journey as well. So I'm going to be working on reacting and responding all week and all day as well.

Take care, my friend.

Bye. Thank you.

That wraps up another episode of the Happiness Squad podcast. We hope you found the insights actionable to enhance your journey towards happiness. Happiness and fill your life with more joy, health, love and meaning. Please consider leaving us review and share the podcast with anyone in your professional or personal life who you feel will benefit from some of these very insights. It's a really simple way to extend support and spread positivity. Take care and remember, happiness is a choice that's available to you more moment to moment in the here and now. Take care and see you next week.