The Role of Brain Science in Building Inclusive Teams with Shannon Murphy

There is so much that you can do to create care and kindness that you have a choice in every single moment because the choices you make today shape your brain of tomorrow.

Welcome to the Happiness Squad Podcast. Your weekly dose of practical tips and inspiration to help you operate at your fullest potential. Integrating the science of flourishing into how you live, work and lead. I'm your host, Ashish Kothari, the founder and CEO of Happiness Squad and author of the best selling book Hardwired for Happiness. I will be your personal guide on your journey to explore the many facets of happiness, well being and flourishing, from personal growth to building more positive environments at work. In each episode we will share powerful insight, tips, tips and stories from our guests who are leading experts, company executives and flourishing solution providers that you can implement right away to make happiness your competitive edge. Whether you're looking to overcome life's challenges, to go from good to great, or to enhance your team's performance through flourishing, this podcast is the place for you to find more joy, health, love and meaning in everything you do. Join us every week as we rewire for happiness together. Welcome to the Happiness Squad Podcast. I'm especially excited about our episode today because we are diving into a powerful topic, how neuroscience intersects with inclusion and I'm joined for this episode by the incredible Shannon Murphy. Shannon is someone who brings a wealth of knowledge and hands on experience when it comes to global diversity and inclusion. Over the past 15 years she's worked with organizations like Deloitte AT&T and Cargill leading large scale diversity initiatives. She's also the co founder of Brain Skills at Work where she focuses on applying neuroscience to help leaders develop skills around inclusion and leadership. In this episode we explored how our brains naturally categorize people and how that impacts empathy and belonging in the workplace, two critical components around flourishing. Shannon and I talk about the role self awareness plays in recognizing discomfort, managing biases and creating a more inclusive environment where each team member feels safe and valued. We also touch on practical strategies that leaders can use to foster psychological safety and appreciation and why every interaction is an opportunity to choose inclusion over exclusion. These insights can completely transform the way you lead and how your team functions. So stay tuned as we break down the science of inclusion and integrate it into flourishing actions that can truly help you unlock the full potential of your teams. Hi Dear Shannon, it's so lovely to finally almost after close to a year, like actually I guess six months have you on our podcast. We've been meaning to do this for a while. So delighted to have you.

Oh thank you, Ashish. I'm delighted to be here. It seems like March, when we were at GGH was a while ago. Time goes by.

I know. Exactly. And listen, right from the first moment when we met at this gross global happiness summit where I was speaking, I was captured by this unique angle that you take to the work around inclusion. A lot of work on inclusion and belonging and DEI often comes from a place of this is the way it should be. And I think you bring the neuroscience into which creates a lot more compassion and empathy for all of us as we kind of think about engaging. And it's not that we are wrong or we are insensitive. It's a little bit around the fact that we're not. Hey, like the instrument through which we making the sense of the world. I think there is insights there that can learn to help us become better humans, better leaders, all of that. So I love it and I'm really, really excited to dig into that with you. And we're going to dive right in. So there is this us versus then instinct that you talk about in your book and in your work. Right. And you say, like, look, our brain naturally categorizes people into groups. That's how our wiring works. Talk to us a little bit about this natural categorization and how this can actually lead to exclusion in the workplace.

Absolutely, Ashish. I'd love to, because it's such a core foundational element that is so helpful when people understand it. And I think that's part of why I love coming through inclusion, coming through this door of how we can be as effective as we can as human beings through the door of science. Because there's so much more now that we know and more coming out literally every single day. And what it comes down to at a very base level, if you look at it in terms of the brain's base instincts, we've inherited a brain that operates on fear. We've inherited a brain whose primary job is not critical thinking. It's not problem solving, it's not leadership effectiveness, it's not eq, it's survival.

Yeah, it's to keep us safe.

Yep, exactly. Its job is to keep us safe, manage the body, the body budget, make sure that we live to see another day. You know, that's its primary job. And it dates back to this us, them piece. You know, it really dates back to just the biology of how the brain has developed because we very quickly, from a survival perspective, had to determine friend or foe and ascertain that very quickly. If I saw you And I didn't know you or the people you were with, Ashish. And I thought about it a little too long. I'm not going to know the outcome. If it was someone with ill intent, that would have been my last pondering. If it was someone with good intent, well, you know, then great, my pondering and pause paid off. But the brain does this so quickly. In as little as 200 milliseconds of seeing someone, the brain makes this instantaneous determination. Like me, not like me. Comfortable, not comfortable. And what I think is so helpful when people start to understand this is it impacts our behavior outside the radar of our conscious awareness.

Yeah.

And that's where I think there's huge benefit in people understanding some of the ways that the brain can trip us up no matter how well intentioned we are to be inclusive, to work effectively across differences.

So in your book, I love the Story Shannon, you shared around how participants brains responded differently to folks with different socioeconomic background. Talk to me a little bit. Share with our listeners what that revealed and some of the juicy details behind it because I think it's so powerful because to your point, what's happening might not even be in our conscious, it's actually in our unconscious. And we can pick that up now through kind of all the ways in which we can study the brain and what's happening. So share a little bit of that research and findings.

Sure, I would love to Ashish. And what's helpful to understand that is to also understand another body of research around the social wiring in the brain because we are also wired to be social like. Dr. Joshua Green, who runs Harvard's Moral Cognition lab, talks about how cooperation developed that developed within groups because it helped again ensure our survival. Matt Lieberman, who runs UCLA's cognitive neuroscience lab, has studied the social circuitry in depth. It's what helps us build trust, build rapport core, build meaningful relationships and connections with others. However, this social wiring comes with a very significant caveat and that speaks to exactly what you were just talking about. It does not readily engage. If your brain sees the other person as in other for any reason, maybe it's a difference that's unfamiliar, maybe it's a difference that causes discomfort or it's simply a difference. So for instance, there's a newer study that's come out that I really think highlights as well by David Eagleman. He's a neuroscientist at Harvard and what he did was he simply put people in an mri, a functional mri, so he could see the brain in real time. And then they saw images of someone getting a vaccine in their hand. So you see that needle piercing and he simply put labels over the hand. Things like Christian, Hindu, atheist, Muslim, Scientologist. And if the person looking at the image was part of that same religious affiliation, empathy engaged. The pain centers in their brain lit up just like the pain centers would for the person receiving the shot. If, however, the person didn't. So let's say it was someone who is Muslim and they see someone who's atheist or someone who's Scientologist and they see someone who's Hindu, those pain centers didn't light up. And the empathy studies show this. The empathy centers in the brain do not engage when the brain sees someone as an other. And that's problematic. There was tying back to your question about the socioeconomic status, there was a study that looked at social out out groups. This particular group looked at homeless users. And what was so disturbing about this, Ashish, is not only did the empathy centers in the brain not engage, but the pattern that fired was the same as disgust.

Yes, Literally that was going through my head. Yeah.

Yep. Literally the brain seeing someone is less than human. And that's problematic.

It is massive. Right. And I think, friends, this is the really insightful part around this work. If you've read the book of Joy by the Dalai Lama, I'm reading that book again now for the fifth time. Right. He talks about exactly the same thing, which is, you know, we are all wired for compassion, but we are all wired for compassion differently. And our empathy and compassion circuits really fire when it is somebody like us. If they're not, if it's not us, it's a them. Yes. We can then still take an act which is of compassion, but it's through a choice, naturally, you know, from within. Right. That the responses, and hence the need and importance to cultivate, to cultivate ways in which we can break through that fundamental rewiring that fundamental hurdle. And that's the work why this is so important. And so if there's a leader who's listening to this and they recognize that, you know, this us versus them dynamic is constantly playing out in their teams, in their organization. By the way, the us versus them dynamic doesn't just have to be about religion or about, you know, color or any other. It can also as much as be. I work in procurement, you're in marketing. Now, as marketing, you're struggling and I don't actually care or I'm in operations. It's anything that differentiates or combines. Right. And so I Think it's important to think about it. It can be socioeconomic strata, it can be anything that basically we label as me, right? We all have identities. We say I am this, I went to college. Our own stories. It's that. So if you're a leader and you're like, wow, so I wonder if this is going on in my team, what is a practical thing that they could do? Shannon, what is something practical that they could do to start to break down this dynamic?

You know, there's actually a lot we can do, Ashish. And to narrow it down to one practical thing, it's actually something that you just said from the Book of Joy and that is engaging conscious choice. Because when the brain registers someone as different for whatever aspect of identity that's in relation to it sends an away response and that social circuitry doesn't engage. I'll give you an example of this around an aspect of difference. My youngest daughter has down syndrome and I see the away response all the time. Ashish, when I'm out with her with people that haven't maybe been exposed to down syndrome, they don't have that familiarity, they don't have that comfort level. And so I see that away response in some so many different ways. Even, you know, simple like going to a restaurant and she's 17 and the server asking me what she wants when she's perfectly capable of answering herself to, to more profound like when she joined soccer team and as a kindergartner and her soccer coach, she was the only child in the entire house league. Ashish with a visible physical disability. I'm sure there are kids in the house league with invisible disability. She was the only one with a visible disability. She's so excited. After years of being hauled around to her older sibling soccer games. And we get there and her soccer coach did not make eye contact with her, didn't acknowledge her, didn't say hello to her once in the entire three month season. Now, was that soccer coach trying to discriminate against her? No, probably not. What I suspect happened was that discomfort kicked in, that away response kicked in and she lacked the awareness that it was happening. So she did not make a conscious choice to override it. And that is the single most important thing that leaders can do, is make that conscious choice. They've got to learn to recognize discomfort. Because if discomfort is, is online, that away response is happening around any aspect of difference. And so it's training that it starts.

With creating awareness, which is where I want to go next. Awareness of this work and this natural Tendency, but also awareness, self awareness, Right. There's a reason, you know, self awareness, even in Hardwired for Happiness shows up at the heart of the practice. There is nothing out there that we can do without being connected to the stories we tell about what's happening in here and like really turning the lens back at us to study ourselves. So you also mentioned that even when it comes to biases, right. When it comes to being happier, when it comes to being healthier, all of that, you need self awareness. But when it comes to managing biases and becoming more inclusive, self awareness is foundational too. So talk a little bit, Shannon, about when you make this point that this is so foundational from your work. Why is this so important? And tell me, you know, bring it to life in context of a story around how as a leader recognized this. Something shifted.

Sure. You know, self awareness I often talk about, and I think this is probably why what we both do aligns so well in so many ways. Ashish, self awareness I always talk about is a mega competency. It underscores everything we do in terms of professional and personal effectiveness. So if we aren't aware of ourselves, how we're coming across, how we show up in day to day interactions, how we show up as we move through our days, we lose a lot in the process. What can make self awareness particularly challenging is self awareness is not static in the brain. It is absolutely impacted by the degree to which the fear circuitry is engaged. So one of the concrete tools that I developed with my colleague and former business partner, who's now retired, Mary Casey, was brain states management to help people understand that self awareness, perception and our ability to make conscious choices are not static. They are very much impacted by the degree to which that the fear circuitry is engaged or not. When the fear circuitry is quiet in the brain, we can engage what we call that higher brain state where we can have the highest levels of, of self awareness. Our perception is most open. We can see the big picture, we can see multiple perspectives, we can see why people are coming from the perspectives they are. We can be really intentional in our choices, our decisions, our actions. However, as that fear circuitry starts to engage, maybe it's even low level stress. We worry, anxiety, just the pace and the pressure and the urgency in a lot of workplaces can be enough to put people in the middle brain state where self awareness starts to fluctuate. We don't have as stable access to it. You know, think about like when you're under stress, think about maybe some point in Your career, Ashish, where you were under stress and you thought, you know, I can get done what I need to get done. I can tick off the to do's, but I know I'm not at my highest and best and it's probably impacting how I'm showing up with others. That's that middle brain state.

Absolutely. And in your research, where do you find people spending most of their time? Like if you had a whole day, what percentage of time at waking day? Forget about sleep. We know what happens at sleep, but when you're awake, where are you? You know what, let's just even make it specific at work, what percentage of the time are people in lower brain state, middle brain state and higher brain state?

You know, I love that question because we all fluctuate in and out of the higher, the middle and the lower brain states even in the span of one day. And we also, to your point, can create and develop tendencies of where we are more often than we are. And those are influenced by what's happening in our life. What's the work environment? Is it fear based? You know, can be influenced by so many things. And the. I developed a brain states awareness profile because I wanted people to get insight into their tendencies. And when we use this profile with groups, leaders, employees, all levels, what we find, Ashish, is really interesting. Typically 75% of any given group is in that middle brain state as a tendency. Now what was particularly interesting prior to Covid, we never saw anyone land in the lower brain state as a tendency until Covid.

Interesting.

And think about COVID with the uncertainty and the massive fear, and especially early on when even the epidemiologists were racing to figure this all out, there was such an environment of fear and uncertainty and unpredictability, which is so hard on the brain. For the first time we had significant percentages showing up in that lower brain state.

Yeah, no, it's interesting, right? And by the way, the middle brain state, as you said, I think it's a place where you go in and out. Right. So if you look at it another way, you know, one of the research that I was part of was looking at how much of the time are we in sympathetic or parasympathetic nervous system amongst leaders. Right. And what we found was almost 70% of the people under high, you know, in like most of our environments today are pretty high stressful because the targets are higher, the conditions are hotter and people are just trying to kind of rise. You know, we are running out of hours, people are not sleeping enough. So Much are like kind of in that, you know, lower to middle almost, I would say, right. Like we're running on fumes. And I love this app, friend. So if you want to know what percentage of time you spend in sympathetic versus parasympathetic, and if you have an apple watch or if you have a ring, I think it works with all of those. There's an app called Weltary. W E L L T O R Y. Download it and use that because it literally hour by hour tells you that where you are using nine different factors in heart rate variability, is your sympathetic or parasympathetic active? And you can actually study how quickly you can shift into parasympathetic, which are higher brain states. Right. When we are. When we are rest, recovery, digest, we let our fear circuitry calm down, we start to actually move up. And from that, so much becomes possible. But try that app. Check out Weltary. I downloaded it about three months ago and I just love it because at any point of time, again, it's about awareness. At any point of time, it tells me where I am. Right. It tells me my level of stress, it tells me my level of energy, and hence is saying, hey, this is where you are. Here's what you might want to consider doing. When we are aware, we have a choice. If we are not even aware.

Exactly.

Ashish, that choice is not there. Right.

You're right. That awareness is so critical. And I love that app suggestion because it ties Ashish with the very first skill that we teach people in brain states management, which is to recognize your brain state in the moment.

Yes.

And so you. Because we get so much information from our physiology, such as what the app provides from our thinking, from our emotions, we get so many cues that we can train ourselves to notice because that builds them, that awareness of what is my state right now. And if I can tell, I'm starting to fluctuate. So for me, for instance, I know when I'm going into a reaction around something, my heart rate starts to ramp up and I can feel it. And so I have trained myself to notice when my heart rate changes because that's an early indicator for me that my physiology is changing and I'm shifting brain states, even if consciously I have not yet realized I'm going into a reaction. I've trained myself to notice the body physiology changing so I can catch it and go, ooh, something's up. I might not even know what it is yet, but I'm going to pause, I'm going to calm the physiology I'm going to proceed with some caution so that I can maintain my state or I might need to use some tools, which is that second skill around managing your brain state. And this is where there's a lot of application, Ashish, for leaders, for teams, for organizations, because when they can learn those skills to recognize your brain state and then be able to shift your brain state. And then the third skill around, maintain and maximize the higher brain, the more we recognize and shift. This is self directed neuroplasticity at work. We're building that capacity in the brain. We're strengthening those neuropathways that help us recognize and shift, which then helps us stay in that higher brain state more and more of the time. And it impacts the work environment, it impacts how teams function. You know, we had one team where they were really struggling, a diverse team, they weren't communicating well. They, they weren't particularly highly engaged. They were really struggling. And it was interesting because teaching them about creating a brain friendly work environment in their team, teaching them brain states, management and the skills around being able to recognize and manage their state. When we went back and worked with them for the part two, we were astonished on what had changed so quickly in terms of engagement, in terms of the intentionality. So they gave us examples of Sheesh. Where like if they knew something was going to impact their colleague's brain state and they were going to have a reaction to it, they would preface it and say, now Ashish, I know this is going to freak your brain out, but bear with me.

Yeah. Giving forward warning so that people are better prepared internally. Right. So it's a dance. Yeah, I love that. What are some other tools, Shannon, that you worked with this group that proved to be particularly effective and things that you would encourage leaders to adopt?

You know, the first was, the first key tool that we worked with them around the recognizing was learning to recognize their own personal physical cues, thinking cues and emotional cues when they're in the higher brain state, when they're in the middle brain state and when they're in the lower brain state and almost use.

That as your thermometer. Right. Use that as a thermometer.

That does become your thermometer.

And it is so hard. No, Shannon, because I come across so many people, we ask, what are you feeling? And they're like, nothing. I'm like, yeah, that's a feeling of numbness. You're numb. So many people are numb from body below. So how do you even train folks? How do you even start with helping people recognize to say, hey, Your body, your breath, your heart rate, what you're feeling in your stomach or in your chest, how open or closed, you know, all of these are clues here for you. They're literally like your thermometer. But how do you get people to actually start to become more aware of their own somatics, of what's happening in their body? Sharon?

Yeah, the somatic piece, you're right. So many people live from the head up and there is this disconnection we bring in the body piece. I often will bring that in because we have to build awareness of those physical cues. And also care and feeding of the body is huge because it impacts cognitive performance. And so it's helping people start to tune in. It can even be simple things like think about something that right now you're upset about and now pay attention to what's changing in your body. What do you notice? Or an easy path in that wool that I'll often lead people through because they can identify with. This is when you're under stress, what happens in your body? And most people can start to identify.

Well, they remember that.

Yeah, that. They remember that, oh, my breathing goes, you know, or, or it gets really shallow. I get tension. My might clench my jaw, you know, they can start to have these. So it's finding those easy access points for people ashish to realize, oh, I can pay attention to what's happening somatically. I can build that somatic awareness. And that's one of three cues. Because if they're still learning the somatic awareness, they can also train themselves to notice their thinking cues and their emotional cues. Because when the middle brain state, when we fluctuate, we're in that middle brain state and the fear circuitry starts to engage the brain fairly quickly. Tips to the negative. So if you catch yourself caught in the negative thinking, negative assumptions, I often talk about it and we joke about it as awfulizing, you know, just the. The negative.

I like that.

Awfulizing, you know, and getting stuck in those negative thinking feeling loops where I think the negative thoughts, I feel the negative feelings generates more negative thoughts. And so it's really helping people build that awareness of the somatic, those physical cues, the thinking cues and the emotional cues. And any one of those can be an entree point to being able to build that awareness of your state in the moment.

We hope you're enjoying this episode and would love your help in spreading awareness and furthering our mission to help a billion people rewire for happiness. Please consider leaving us a review and sharing this podcast with others in your personal and professional life who you feel could benefit from some of these very insights. It's a really simple way to extend and spread positivity. Also, check out Rewire, our proprietary offering to move you from knowing to doing. On the Happiness Squad website, www.happinesssquad.com Rewire uses the science of habit formation and the power of community to help you build happier habits in five minutes or less daily. Now back to the episode. You know, this has been really, you know, about 10 years ago is when I started on this journey, Shannon, and I'm really deepening awareness. You know, it all came from my own kind of mining my world for why was I struggling with anxiety. And it all started with what is making me anxious, which is what tuned me into self awareness. And over that period, you know, one of the practices that has really helped me create a bit of a distance so I can observe my body, so I can observe the emotions that I'm feeling and even be able to name them and to be able to observe my thoughts has actually been a practice I learned from Sadhguru. He's an Indian mystic. He created a kriya called the Isha Kriya. It's one of the micro practices that we include in our Rewire program. And it's really starting to meditate, find that place and meditate with a mantra. I added a little bit to it. And the mantra that has really helped me is as we sit at our feet and bring awareness, we repeat silently, I am not my body. I am not my emotions. I am not even my mind. And this notion of, so then who are you? Who is the observer? So I can objectively start to create that distance and learn it. Because your notion of, in that moment, when you go down, when we go negative, we have to remind yourself that is just a story. And like five minutes later it might be a different story, right? Like imagine you're driving down the road and somebody cuts you off and you're like, oh my God, how rude, right? And how rude and how inconsiderate. Till your friend catches something in the back of the car and you realize, oh, maybe there's somebody who's, who's, you know, maybe it's wife's at the back and she's about to have a baby and he's rushing to get the wife to the hospital or there is a sick child, or there's something else. There is something going on. The moment we think about that, we're like, we get all kinds of compassion. But our first story of inconsiderate rude negativity. And I think this practice, I invite you to explore it. It's on sadhguru's website. It's out there. We have that as well. Is just start to tune. Because till we create awareness of how we make meaning and how we can get so entangled in our thoughts, what we are feeling, our emotions, we get so tangled in it that that becomes our reality. And we don't even realize that we are seeing the world from that lens. From that lens. Inclusivity is not possible. Right. Coming back, like, we're very quickly, we're in a fear state. Are you with me? Are you against me? Compassion is not possible. We've just focused on our own survival. And from that, then you can start to actually make a shift. You recognize awareness, and then you can start to make a shift right out of that breath is powerful. Taking a break. I want to move Shannon to this practice that I absolutely loved. And again, this has been very transformative for me. So that's why I love that this was actually in your. In your work was a way to consciously choose a higher brain state. Right. So if you're in a lower brain state, get to the middle, from the middle. If you want to access the higher. You talk about the power of appreciation and really activating that. Talk to us a little bit about how that is so powerful in creating a more inclusive environment.

I would love to, Ashish, because you're right. When we fluctuate brain states, that awareness is so critical. And then the next step of that is, what tools do I have that I can use, like you were just referencing to Then shift my state when I realize I'm losing access to my highest and best self. We had someone that had come to presentation, and a year later, when presenting at the same national, actually global conference, the person came and found our booth. And she came up to me and she said, you know, she said, I wanted to come find you, and I'm so glad that you're here. And I remember this, Ashish, because it was my birthday, so it was like the best birthday present I think I ever could have gotten. And she said, I specifically wanted to find you this year. And thank you. I attended your workshop last year. And she said, I realized how much I lived in that middle brain state. And even though I was wanting to do good work, I wanted good relationships, all these things. She said, maybe I was saying the right things, but the way it was coming out wasn't effective. And she said, so all I have done this last year was focus on being in that higher brain state more and more of the time. And she said my entire life has changed. I've gotten a promotion at work, my relationships are better, my marriage is better. And she said I would have never imagined how one year ago just a one hour workshop I participated in would have been so transformational. And that speaks to the power of using these tools and particularly appreciation is phenomenal. Ashish, you know the that's of course the whole basis of positive psychology. You know the Heartmath institute did a lot of the seminal research. There's just been so much great research around understanding positive emotions and the incredible benefit they have. The single from a brain states management perspective, the single biggest payoff of engaging appreciation and consciously being in positive feeling states is it gives you access to the higher brain state and it stabilizes it. And so when you're in that higher brain state and you have positive emotions online, it's almost like higher brain state plus plus. And this is where you, you can access those flow states where you can get insights, creativity, innovation, where you can suddenly put things together in ways you hadn't thought of before. It's where from an inclusion perspective you can consciously choose to move toward despite differences. It's where you can make a choice to notice and manage your biases which everyone has. I mean the brain. There's over 175 different types of braids biases the brain can employ at any given time. We are not bias free. That's impossible. The brain is a bias making machine and we can use our state to help access more higher levels of awareness and access our best selves to notice and manage that more effective. We can move towards someone and override that discomfort. You know, I saw the power of that. Ashish, I shared with you the example of the soccer coach for my daughter Annabelle in kindergarten that had that away response and didn't engage for the entire season. Second grade, very different experience. That soccer coach welcomed, embraced, let Annabelle know she was appreciated. She was a valuable member of that team. Even if she wasn't the fastest, even if she hadn't scored a goal the entire season. She was seen, she was heard, she was valued. Here's where then I think this is what shows us what's possible for humanity. The last soccer game of the season, there's like three minutes left of the game and her coach calls a timeout and I'm like a timeout for what? You know they don't even keep score at this age. It's just and I'm like, they're more interested chasing a butterfly down the field than soccer strategy. Why is he calling a timeout in the last couple minutes of the game? So I kind of watched quizzically, and I see him huddle the team together. He walks over to the other coach, talks to that coach, that coach huddles his team together. And when they come back to the field, Ashish. I realized they put my daughter in the forward striker position and set it up so that she could advance the ball down the field. And with one very well placed kick, she scored her first goal of the season. And to see the joy on her face as she jumped up and down. Both teams jumping up and down, cheering for every parent of both teams on the sidelines, on their feet, cheering for.

Her, that brings tears to my eyes.

Yes, it did to me. I was bawling. We have this ability to tap into the true magnificence of what humanity can be. And I think when we can leverage and be aware of our state, when we can really leverage appreciation and consciously cultivate opens up so much hope. It opens up so many possibilities that I find it incredibly hopeful.

Yeah. You know, I love, love, love that story. And there are so many. You know, I'm taking away so many lessons from that, Shannon. Right. Personally, as I let that just soak into me, I think the first is, you know, it was the same person who the year before didn't acknowledge. Right. And so change is possible. We like to put people in black and white. This is good. This is bad. He is considerate. You are not. So this notion that, you know, people can change, we can change. I think the second big piece is we are so focused in our world of work and life on winning, winning, moving faster, getting ahead, you know, things of that nature, that there are moments when winning can be in very different ways. I mean, no win, the biggest win of, like, that joy that they were able to create for your daughter, but also experienced as a result of it. Right. It was not just her joy and that jubilation. I bet that was something they talked about and they carried with them. So this notion that if we just stop for a minute to really think about how. Where we are, what matters, how we can create a magical moment for somebody. You know, I love that. And I think the third one that I pick up is in certain ways, there were two teams competing against each other, but right in this moment, they came together. Right. So there is an opportunity for us to kind of cross boundaries. We don't have to. This, again, ties back to Our original part of where we started, us versus Them. This was us. That was them. But in that moment, there was no us in them. Right. They were all united together to create that moment that they will talk about. I know I will remember that for a very, very, very long time. They will talk about. And it shaped. It shaped an act, right, for them. So, oh, my God, like, it's. I love, love, love. Thank you for sharing that.

Oh, you're welcome.

Oh, my God.

Highlights that. What you're just talking about is we can create a bigger we. We can move beyond the us, Them.

Yeah. And, you know, it's really interesting to me, we literally were having this conversation yesterday, and, you know, I was. We were reflecting a bit on the political environment, and he was like, yeah, you know, divisiveness is works because we are natural. Us versus Them, people. It's us versus them. Right? Like, you can call left versus Right whatever you want to call, you know, the whole world. And he said, yeah, that's how we are. That's why, you know, the debates are filled. I was actually. The last vice presidential debate was just such a breath of fresh air for the first time. I was infringing because everybody was busy tearing the other person down. They were so respectful of each other. And I said to him, you know, yeah, I really wish that, you know, hopefully some aliens show up on Earth because all of a sudden, we can stop breaking ourselves up as us versus them, and then it's us united against them. Right? Like, we are tearing as humanity. We are tearing apart because we are further and further segregating, separating and tying ourselves into these identities, Right? We are seeing it all over the world. And I think we need to, any event, anything that helps us for a moment, stop this tearing process and starts bringing the uniting process. We are all same. We all want to be happy. We are not different. We might have different views of how to get there. And so I love this work that you're doing. And appreciation is such an easy, powerful way, Shannon, to start to do that. You know, I was the same, I have to admit, you know, early in my career, when I'm talking about early, really, really early. 10, 15, 10, 12 years ago, you know, I was always like. There was always like, are you like me or are you the 20% who can get stuff done? And there is this stuff in the middle and then there's the bottom 20%. And whether I was explicit, I was never explicit, but, like, the way my facial expression showed up, people knew where they stood, right? So this notion of going back to like, you just know, like I would never say, oh my God, you are, I would never ever say that to anybody. Right? Wow, you are not really good at your job. But I didn't need to say it. People could see it, you can sense it. And the journey that I've been on. And literally this was another conversation we were having and somebody was talking about, I was having a conversation with somebody and they were like, wow, that person really doesn't cut it. Why are you working with them? And where I see it is every person has a role, every person has a gift. Just because that does gift doesn't tie in with what's needed right now. Has nothing to do with the worthiness of the person. We can appreciate what they bring, right? Just like when we are watching nature. Think about this, dear friends, if you are at your workplace and you think about this, when it comes to people, we're very good to categorize, we are very quick to judge. You don't do that when you are walking in nature. You don't do that externally. You don't go and say, oh my God, let me tell you what's the problem with this tree? Or this is this tree and this is that tree. And I like, you know, I like this mountain, I don't like this mountain. And this is not a lot externally, but in here we are constantly doing it. And I think the pathway of appreciating the good in everyone I think can be so, so, so powerful. Right? You're inviting us towards that. So how have you seen companies embrace this channel? Like, have you seen companies really? Is there a way, some three or four ways in which you've noticed your clients just create this culture of appreciation where it's something that we consciously choose to create energy in our workplaces.

I have Ashish and I've had organizations where they have focused on and realized that they had 75% of their people hanging out in that middle brain state. And they realized, you know, there's some things in our culture that are contributing to that. And so they realize, you know, we need to focus on creating a more brain friendly work environment where people can show up and do their best. And it can be little ways, bigger ways, all kinds of ways. One manager, for instance, felt that their team meetings, their regularly scheduled team meetings were fairly negative and unproductive. So they said, I need to shift this dynamic. If we're really going to work to create a culture that's more brain friendly, I need to also shift the dynamic of how we're showing up and interacting even in our standard weekly team meetings. So what they did at their next meeting was they asked their team when they started the meeting, what are three things you appreciate about being on this team? And they came back to me. They said, Shannon, I was floored. How powerful something so simple was and how it changed the tone of the entire rest of the meeting. It changed how people listened, it changed how they interacted and it helped them tap into a sense of care. You know, you talked about earlier too, Ashish, you know, purpose and, and that's such a key part of that as well. So with the organization that was really working on creating a more positive, more brain friendly work environment, one of the things that they really worked to do was to consciously cultivate a sense of purpose. You know, why do they do what they do and to help people stay connected to that and that importance because it also helps engage those positive emotional states and helps create higher motivation and engagement. So absolutely, there's a lot that organizations can do around that.

Look, I mean we can talk forever. Your work is so beautiful and I know we will. I think I'm going to see you next year, hopefully at the gth. I think I will be there.

I will be there.

So my one last question before we close, Shannon. More and more teams today are working in global, cross cultural, international context. I have one client where there's a US team and there's a European team, right? That is kind of they run into issues, they run into struggles because again, like we start to say, oh, they're like that versus not recognizing what's going on here. I have another team which is struggling between India and the US There is like so much global coordination. Like we've become truly a global economy. Companies are global. So, you know, what are some things that. Which further creates a challenge, right? It creates an additional level of inclusion challenge. What tips would you offer to leaders who are working in these cross cultural contexts to get higher, to create more inclusion, to get the best of the people and hence through that achieve greater collaboration and success.

I think with that, Ashish, obviously a key part of it is creating psychological safety in the team. How are they creating an environment where everyone can show up? They see each other, to your point earlier, as adding value, as being a meaningful contributor to the team. One thing that becomes really critical when we're working across the complexity that global teams work across is we have to increase comfort in the brain in working across a myriad of differences, whether it's language, time zone, culture, even simple things. Around how culture shapes approaches to problem solving, how different educational approaches shift how people work and look at things. I mean, there's so many complexities to it. And so it starts with intentionally decreasing fear by increasing connection and creating familiarity. We have to do the work to find, find the ways we're similar, find those connections and build on that. So I see you, Ashish, and even now, for instance, because you've shared some of your path, I can think about it and go, gosh, you know, I know inner reflection is really important to Ashish. I've been a meditator for decades. That's a daily practice. And so I have that connection now where I can say, ah, we have some things that are shared around that. So it's finding those shared interests, finding those points of connection, finding those also obviously shared goals and purposes of why we're doing what we're doing. So that connection to purpose. And we have to do the work to make the unfamiliar differences more familiar and more comfortable because that's how we stretch the boundaries of the brain to include more and more aspects of difference and create that bigger we. We have to.

I love that. I love that. Right, so if you are working in this team, what I'm taking away is, yes, there will be a lot of things that'll be different and that is, by the way, what your team, your individual team members will tune into going back, us versus them, our brains whining for fear. Who's with me? Who's not with me? You know, our inability to be able to tune into our compassion and empathy circuits when it comes to somebody else who's suffering. Find ways to find the common ground. Find ways to help people discover what unites them. You know, have conversations, maybe it can be around. What are the hobbies? What are your growing learning experiences? What are some practices you do every day? You know, family, how old kids are, Purpose. What are we really together trying to achieve? Right. What are we appreciating about being on this team? So more that we can create and break this barrier of what divides us. I think we can find there is so much that unites us. And so at a much, much deeper level, we are creating a more inclusive environment. Because really, you're not telling them to do something there. You are fundamentally re sculpting how they experience the other person in here. Because once we start to create that common ground, compassion emerges, curiosity emerges, trust emerges. I love how practical and simple that can be and I love the fact that it is so easy. I think everybody, you know, you you start working with somebody who is different, everybody can do this. Start to find those things that unite you. And just like that, this inclusion thing is not something we do out here, but it just emerges from our way of being. Shannon, this has been so amazing. Thank you. I'm walking away with so much. I know our listeners would be as well. So thank you for taking the time to be with us to share the beautiful work you're doing in the world and just for being who you are, my friend.

No, thank you, Ashish. Thank you. Because there is so much we can do and it makes a positive difference. We've seen it in organizations, we've seen it in individuals. And I think if we put this into a final thought, a final takeaway as Sheesh. There's. What I would love for people to walk away from this with is to know there is so much that you can do to create care and kindness that you have a choice in every single moment of how you show up, how you interact. You get to choose. Are you going to be the soccer coach that excludes or the soccer coach that includes and appreciates? Because the choices you make today shape your brain of tomorrow.

Beautiful. Thank you, my friend. Have a wonderful day. This is amazing. That wraps up another episode of the Happiness Squad podcast. We hope you found the insights actionable to enhance your journey towards happiness and fill your life with more joy, health, love and meaning. Please consider leaving us. Review and share the podcast with anyone in your professional or personal life who you feel will benefit from some of these very insights. It's a really simple way to extend support and spread positivity. Take care and remember, happiness is a choice that's available to you moment to moment in the here and now. Take care and see you next week. Sa.