The Self-Discovery Every Entrepreneur Must Do To Conquer Any Leadership Challenge with Alex Raymond

Building a business is a spiritual journey that everything I'm doing as I'm creating my business, as I'm building my company, is allowing me to learn more about myself, to uncover who I truly am, and to experience the world as it is.

Welcome to the Happiness Squad Podcast. Your weekly dose of practical tips and inspirations to help you operate at your fullest potential by integrating the science of flourishing into how you live, work and lead. In each episode we will share insights, tips and stories from leading experts, company executives and flourishing solution providers that you can implement right away to make happiness your competitive edge and find more success, joy, health, love and meaning in everything you do.

Hello friends. Welcome to the Happiness Squad Podcast where we share practical tips to make flourishing your competitive edge and help you achieve stellar performance powered by well being and not at its expense. I'm Ashish Kothari and I'm on a mission to help a billion people not just experience happiness as an emotion, but truly use it as a tool to unlock their fullest potential. If you're interested in learning more, please make sure to follow me on LinkedIn and subscribe to our newsletter@happinesssquad.com today I'm thrilled to bring you a conversation with my dear friend Alex Raymond, who is the founder of a Conscious Entrepreneur Summit and the host of the Conscious Entrepreneur Podcast. Our episode will cover the importance of well being for entrepreneurs. Alex is not just a thought leader, he he's walked the entrepreneurial path himself, experiencing the highs, lows and the grind firsthand. In this episode we'll explore Alex's journey, what inspired him to create the conscious entrepreneur movement, and his insights from 75 incredible experts he's discussed and talked with during his episodes. We'll pack top interventions every entrepreneur needs to flourish, the challenges of managing imposter syndrome and why investing in your well being on the entrepreneurial path is not optional, it's essential. Towards the end, Alex shares his key personal practices that help Alex fill his own cup and perform at his best in all aspects of work and life. So get ready to take notes, reflect and transform the way you approach your entrepreneurial journey. Hi dear Alex, it's so lovely to have you on our Happiness Squad podcast, my dear friend.

Hey Ashish, thank you for having me. Congrats on the podcast. Congrats on the impact that you're making in the world.

Well, same to you my friend. Listen friends, for those who are listening, you know I met Alex about a year ago and we had both joined this club and I ran into Alex and he was running this thing that really caught my attention. He was running this thing called the Conscious Entrepreneur Summit. And I think that's really the first year, you know, we just. Actually, it was almost two years ago, and I was going to be in India, and we just, you know, it was like, right that week that I was coming back, and so we never made it. But the second year I went there, and I loved that summit. It was two days. It was actually held here in Boulder, and I loved it because it was such a different conversation. But more than the conversations and the speakers who were at the summit, it was Alex's presence. It is, you know, he's one who's. He himself is a startup entrepreneur. He's worked in big companies, he's worked the startup life. And so he's not one, you know, who is kind of a saint who's out there sitting in an ashram or like a researcher sitting in the nice kind of, if you will, ivory towers looking at data. I mean, you know, he's lived this. He lives this every day. And just as we were prepping, we were saying, like, both of us, right, look, we are not perfect. Nobody is. But at least I think through the work that he's putting out in the world and what he's invested in learning and sharing, I think I am sure you're going to walk away with some really amazing insights. So I really want to start first with, you know, Alex, a little bit of your origin story. Yeah. For our listeners, like, what inspired you to start this, you know, the Conscious Entrepreneur podcast. I think you're on our 50 or 60 episodes. And the summit that's now been running, like, what was your inspiration? Was there a moment or your share a little bit about what's the why behind it?

You know, Ashish, a lot of people who aren't on entrepreneurs, this will be no surprise to you, but to other folks who may not be in the arena, so to speak. So in the entrepreneurial arena, don't understand the amount of stress that an entrepreneur can. Can take on. You know, to a lot of people, they just read headlines in the newspaper, and of course, those are all the good headlines of companies doing great and people doing really well and making a lot of money and being really successful. But the life on the ground for a lot of entrepreneurs is full of uncertainty, it's full of doubt, it's full of struggle, and there's a lot of stress and a lot of things that happen as a result of that, and including to myself. And so I've been An entrepreneur in the software space. Primarily for a while. I did get. I am an mba, so I admit it. Hands up. Yes, I do have an MBA from insead, but I spend a lot of time not working in traditional MBA environments, instead starting companies or being involved with the creation of a number of different companies. The, the thing for me, the, the story that I'd like to share here is back in 2014, I had started a company with some, with some friends, and we were, you know, at the early stages, exciting stages of the business, and we went through a program which is based here in Boulder, Colorado, called Tech Stars.

Now.

Tech Stars, if, if you, the audience are not familiar with it, this is a startup accelerator program. So one of these things that, that's designed to give a lot of support and resources and structure and guidance to companies that have potential to help them really get out there and grow and make an impact. And so it's a very, it's sort of viewed as this, like, exclusive thing. It's hard to get into. You have to apply. It's like kind of a big deal to go through this program. And we were fortunate enough to be, to be doing that. And it's like a, it's like a 90 day thing, right? So you're in there and you're working really hard for 90 days. And we did it and it was, it was exciting and fun. And one day, I am after the program, I get home, I'm sitting at the kitchen table, and my wife looks over at me and she's like, what's the matter with you? And I was like, huh? And she's like, you're sitting there, you've got this long face. You're making a face. You're, you know, you look disengaged. You've been miserable for a couple of weeks now. You don't look like you're having any fun. You're complaining about things, you know, basically like, what's the matter with you, guy? Was, was what? She was, she was asking me, you know, and then what she said was, then, hey, you just got into this techstars program. You're supposed to be at the pinnacle of your entrepreneurial career. Like, why aren't you more excited about this? Why aren't you happier? And at first I got kind of defensive, right? I was like, oh, like, what do you mean? Like, yes, of course, you know, but then I realized there was a lot of truth to what she was saying. Like, I was being like, I was, I was kind of stuck in this loop, okay? And I Wasn't feeling super energized and I wasn't being my best self. And here's what I was doing. Sheesh. I would go into techstars and I would spend all my time comparing myself to others. Right? Like, oh, this, you know, this team raised more money than we did. This team has a cooler product. This team has a nicer pitch deck. This team's getting more attention than we are. This team's younger than we are. Your winner. All this stuff. And so I was in this full blown, like, imposter syndrome explosion right now. Imposter syndrome, as you know, is something that's really based on old, old, old, old stories that we're telling ourselves. So for me, the story I was telling was myself was like, I don't belong. I'm not worthy. I'm not good enough to be around these people. You know, when are they going to find out that I just snuck in here by accident?

Yeah.

You know, they're going to turn me in or they're going to kick me out of the program. So, so here's the thing. I recognized that I was living through that thanks to this prompt of my wife. Right. Smacked me on the head as I was deserving. Almost like smacked me on the head. And that realization got me to thinking that, yeah, there are things I can start doing on the inside to change this. I can change how I show up in the world. I don't know exactly how to do that. I don't have all the tools. I had had some, you know, interactions with things like meditation programs and mindfulness and so on, but I'd never really, really, like, dug into it in, in a lot of detail. And so what I did was I did all the things right. I went out there and it was like the meditation programs and the retreats and the books and the videos and the psychedelics and the entrepreneur groups and the men's group and like, everything, like, so I literally just did everything. And I started to realize how important it is to, for me to, to, to feel good and how I show up and the stories I'm telling myself and, and how all that was driving my perception of external success. And what that allowed me to do was reorient and to reframe some of my thinking around these things. Fast forward about 6 to 12 months, I started to work as a mentor in this same program, techstars. So having gone through it, I could sort of work with companies who were in the program or thinking about joining the program to give them a preview of what was ahead and help them through any, you know, issues or challenges that they were having. And so I started to get all these meetings on my calendar and I was meeting with dozens of entrepreneurs. And here's the funny thing is they would come to these meetings and everyone would show up and put on a brave face and they would come and they wanted to talk to me about their go to market strategy or their pricing or, you know, something to do with their product or market research or whatever it was. And I'd sit there and politely listen and okay, great. And then I would just simply ask some follow up questions like, well, what's really going on here? Or how are you feeling about this entire experience? What's going on inside of you? And what I realized here is that even though everyone thought they wanted to talk about these external things, the real question they were asking me is, when am I going to start to feel okay inside? And they just didn't maybe have the vocabulary or they didn't know how to ask that question. They didn't know it was okay to ask that question. And so for me, what I started to see was I'm not the only one who is imposter syndrome. Comparing myself to others. You know, all this, all that was all these crazy stories in my head from my childhood that are affecting my current adulthood. And that led me to realize like, wow, there's a huge conversation that is not happening around resilience and wellbeing for entrepreneurs. And we're all using this yardstick which says external factors. How much money have you raised? How big is your company? How many employees do you have? Did you, are you selling to a big company? We're using all these external yardsticks. We don't have an internal measuring system to say, how are you doing? Like, how is your experience of being an entrepreneur? And so that was the start of the conscious entrepreneur summit, was kind of that realization of all those things coming together.

I, you know, I love it and I'll just play back a couple of these things, right? Which are so true. Right. And if you're a startup entrepreneur looking to this or, or you're a, you know, consultant. Consultants suffer from this all the time, by the way. You know, I'd got into McKinsey and literally I was for the first year, like, I mean, for a very long time when I made partner at the same thing. But for the first year, like, I was always like, oh my God, they're gonna find out I'm the dumbest person here, right? Like, literally, like, I'm like how, how is this happening? But you know this, we all have it, right? We question our self worth. I had Susan Winchester, who was a Chro for AMD for Applied Materials and literally she's like, I am in a Fortune 10 on the table, at the table questioning do I belong? Right. So we struggle with it. But you know, I think what's interesting for me, Alex, is even in this world is it gets so much more accentuated as a startup founder or an entrepreneur, because the reality is you're trying to solve a problem that hasn't been solved before or in a way that hasn't been solved. You're always short of running out of money, you don't have the talent that you want, that you can pay for or as much of it as you would like. So there's enough work always to be done. There is always things in your product that you know as the person who's created it. There are bugs that, that you might be calling features, but they're bugs and it is one mistake from blowing up. And so you know all of this, right? Like, you know all of this thing in addition to our own inner kind of dialogue of you're not good enough, you're not good enough. And, and you can spiral. And then the moment you start comparing yourself to others who've gone ahead of you, so you're looking at a 20 year perfect somebody versus you, or you're even just looking at others and everybody's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we've got all this thing going. And you're like, holy shit, they got it. I haven't got it. So I mean, I, you know, I can just imagine, right. Like, I think it just gets so, so amplified. So amplified.

It does. Let me, let me tell you what, what can really add to it is this sense that as an entrepreneur that there's no safety net.

Yep.

Right. There's nothing, that there's nothing to lean back on. The only, the only thing that happens is it succeeds wildly or it doesn't. And then you tell yourself all these stories. If it doesn't succeed, it means I'm a failure, I'm a bad entrepreneur, I don't have any good ideas, I can't make anything happen, etc.

Like it all comes people's money. I lost the money of, and trust of people. Right. Like that's the other big thing. Yeah, but you know what I, what you also said, and I think, you know, I've spent so much time just through your community as I was talking to startup, all of These things that you talked about, I mean it's amazing that you did and really started to surround yourself in a learning journey which is really what you've created. You know, at the heart of it, you've created a co learning community that we can learn this science of inner engineering, the science of inner work and joy and happiness. Redefining success. Most entrepreneurs I know say, I don't have time for that. I don't have time, I'm so busy, I don't have time. And you know, I find the heart of like all the work that we've been doing and the research is friends, you want as an entrepreneur, you're like an Olympian or you're aspiring to be an Olympian. You know, what are the odds of success to you being an Olympian? You can look at the odds of startups actually succeeding versus failing. Those are the odds, I might say even it's actually lower. So if you want to have that world class performance, ask any Olympian I serve the USA gymnastics, they will tell you superior performance is only possible through investing in well being.

Oh totally, totally. So I do hear this sometimes. It was like we run a two day summit, right? And people say, oh, how can I possibly find two days to come and do this stuff? And it's like, well, it's more like how can you not find, find time to, to do this? But you know, here's the thing, I want to, I want to hit on a couple of points here. You know, firstly, as you're saying, elite athletes, elite performers all universally have more than one coach, right? So they might have a mindset coach, a nutrition coach, a performance coach, a strength coach, a, you know, whatever it is. If you, if you're an, if you're an athlete and if you are in a, in a big like business role or executive role, you also are surrounded with people who are helping to improve your performance the entire, the entire journey, all the time. If you're an entrepreneur, you think, oh, I don't have the money to do this or I don't have the time to do this. That is absolutely the opposite way to be thinking about this. If you. So I want to share, there's a really, really great book called 10x is easier than 2x written by Dan Sullivan and Ben Hardy. And Ben Hardy is actually coming to the next Conscious Entrepreneur Summit in May of 2025 in bulk. Their whole premise, his whole premise of the book is here are the mindset shifts that you need to make to get to exponential thinking and results versus where you are today. And so there's a lot of ideas in the book that are incredibly compelling, but one of the ideas that is super, super compelling and relevant in this case to this discussion issues is the best performers figure out their 8020. Meaning what is the small number of things that I, as the leader, the CEO, the founder, the entrepreneur need to do versus all the 20 or all the 80% of things that barely generate any results, that don't generate any return for me that are tasks that are below my, what they call unique ability. Yeah, right. So unique abilities similar to the idea of zone of genius. The. The point is, if I'm starting a company, a lot is riding on my shoulders and my talents and my vision and if I'm spending time doing other stuff, doing whatever, social media posts, closing the accounting books, sending invoices, you know, with like all the things that are simply outside of my zone of genius, then I am blunting my potential. And so for an entrepreneur, if an entrepreneur says to me, I'm trying to create a world changing company, but I don't have time to find a coach or I don't have time to come to this summit to improve myself. I think actually you are not creating a world changing company. You are simply grinding. You are stuck in the same mindset as before.

You're stuck in survival, you're just struggling.

You'Re hustling, you're in survival mode. And so we want to be able to change the conversation where people realize, hey, as a CEO, guess what, I don't have to do it all. And in fact, the entire company is better off if I don't. The company is better off if I focus on my particular unique abilities, the things that I'm really, really good at, and I find those and I invest more and more, more and more time into those versus trying to do everything. So when people say I don't have time for this, really what they're saying is I have not prioritized this and I haven't figured out the secret to being an impactful entrepreneur. Yeah.

You know, I love this quote. I'm trying to remember who said it, but this captures this notion of what you're just talking about so well, which is busyness is just a form of laziness. Right. You are too damn lazy to step back, find that moment of stillness, take a balcony view and say what matters and what doesn't. You're just in execution mode.

This, that is totally, totally right. And one of the things that appealed to me about this book, 10x is easier than 2x is Ben Hardy, actually. So.

So he's a.

He's a psychologist. PhD. He studied. Guess what? He studied. He studied entrepreneurial courage. And he studied in particularly what he calls the point of no return, which is when you decide, I'm all in. I'm really doing it. So to your point that busyness is a form of laziness. I can just keep going and I can find all sorts of things to occupy my time and my day. Absolutely. And I'm just in the hustle. I'm just doing it mindlessly versus do I have the courage to drop the things that I'm not so good at and to only focus what I'm. What I'm good at? And what sort of potential does that unleash for me?

Absolutely. I love that, those balcony moments. So I want to keep going on that. So, Alex, you've at this point talked to how many people on your podcast?

The podcast is about 75 episodes.

In 75 episodes, 75 unbelievable experts and startup founders and others in the real people, right? Like, not just experts who haven't done it. Most of the people who've been. And I've listened to so many of your podcasts. I was on yours. Like, you have people who are in. In the work. They're doing the work, they're on the journey. Like, they're not sitting in ivory towers researching this from our university, or they're not in ashrams. You know, I've left my life. You know, let me tell you, I have found joy, and joy is in doing nothing. Right? Like, that's fantastic. That's great. Right? Like, I will never be that person. My wife's always worried I'm going to leave her and go to an ashram. And I'm like, that's not going to happen. That's just not. That is not in me. It's never going to happen. Right? But I want to know, and let's maybe spend, you know, this section on think about what are three or four really big ideas around this notion of growth, inner growth, external growth that you have learned that can help entrepreneurs go from surviving to really thriving. This exciting journey, this mission, this, you know, the reason why they left the safety, the coddling arms of big organizations to go create something, go in the wilderness, and then you're stuck in survival. Like, what are those three to four things that you've picked up that have been transformational for you? And I think the world needs to.

Hear, you know, I have been. Been really lucky to have incredible guests on the Conscious Entrepreneur podcast. And similarly, we also have incredible people who come to speak at our event. So we run a flagship event. We also do all these workshops throughout the year, and these are all geared toward helping entrepreneurs figure out the type of stuff that exactly that you're talking about. And for me, the overriding idea that I will share is based on someone who's been on your podcast as well. It's the work of Dr. Srikumar Rao, who is a friend of mine and just like a tremendous, tremendous person, incredibly generous and insightful. And the meta theme of his that resonates the most with me is the idea that building a business is a spiritual journey. That everything I'm doing as I'm creating my business, as I'm building my company, is allowing me to learn more about myself, to uncover who I truly am, and to experience the world as it is. Now. We spend a lot of time resisting that, fighting against that, stuck in our own mental models, etc. Versus actually watching the universe unfold as we're building our businesses. This is the kind of thing that it's easy to say when the water is nice and still, but when you know, everything is rocky and there's. There's a. There's a lot going on, it's hard to find that. To find that stillness and to agree that this is a spiritual path I'm on.

Right.

But that idea to me shifted everything I thought about this. I always thought, you know, the purpose of the business is to find an unmet need and to build a really great product and to, you know, have. Have tremendous success out there. Instead, everything I'm doing in my life is about understanding myself better, and it's about figuring out who am I, and the vehicle for me to do that is, in this case, a business. And that's the journey that I'm on. And that's one message where I feel like once people understand that, it totally reframes the entire thinking about their company and their business and their careers and their journey. And so I'm just super, super grateful to that concept. And it landed. It really landed for me. So I'll tell you, like Sri Kumara, he is just such an incredible thinker, such a generous and cool guy. He was the first person I ever reached out to about Conscious Entrepreneur Summit. And I basically, I had watched some of his videos on mindvalley and I thought, this guy's amazing. Like, I'm not. I never take notes when I'm watching videos or anything like that. But my wife had given us a subscription to Mind Valley during COVID And I picked up his thing, and I started watching, and I was like, couldn't stop. I was taking pages and pages of notes. And so when I had the idea for Contra Summit, I said, you know what? I'm going to invite Sri Kumar Rao, and if he says yes, then this thing is happening. And I found his email somewhere online, and I was like, okay, you know, wrote the note, hey, I'm doing this thing. Da, da, da. What do you say? And he replied within, like, an hour. And I was like, okay, this is obviously happening. So that's. That's one incredible, incredibly powerful.

Well, I love it. Let's stick with that for a minute before we go to the next one. You know, I think this is so true. I mean, Sri Kumar is awesome. Like, we had him on our podcast, and I are collaborating on a couple of things. He is really, really amazing. I think this notion of what you just said, building the business, is a spiritual journey, right? I just want to play that back. I think it's a spiritual journey, and he talks about it in the context of finding yourself, right? Think about it as almost. You've all heard of the hero's journey, where you leave, you hear a calling, and you go on it. And guess what? You never actually go become a hero till you've slain the dragons. And, my friends, are there enough dragons you've been slaying lately? And so many times. And by the way, not everybody comes back, right? Like, there's some who die on the path. There is a different version, of course, right. That, of course, we still live on. But, like, you know, the company might die, might not survive the dragons or the, you know, the poisonous fruits or whatever it is. You always have mentors like Alex and others who will guide you along, but you have to do the work. I think there is something I want to actually build on. On this, because this is the other thing, in the same vein that people forget. It's a journey within. Clay Christensen, again, a deeply spiritual, unbelievable teacher. He wrote this book called how will you. You know, how. How will you measure your life? Talks about business as the noblest profession because it has a lot. It has an impact, friends, on changing the lives of so many others through what you create. But also all the others that you will lead with you implicitly. When you start something, you are taking the mantle of a leader who's gonna guide people through it, right? So your actions show up. But I think the beautiful part about this, that I, you know, that I will add Alex to what you just said is. And this has changed my last two years. It is a spiritual journey also often if you are able to learn to shift the orientation, it's made a big difference for me of I am not building Happiness Squad to be rich, to have all of these things. I'm building it because I fundamentally my inner why. What I want to bring to the world is you can achieve higher performance through superior well being. And it is incredibly hard because the way we have grown up, the way we are wired, the way our organizations work, the way the capital markets work, it's short term fear based on here and now scarcity, split the pie mindset, that's what rules. So it's incredibly hard both within and outside. And that's, you know, to me that's the work, that's my why. That's what I want to create. So connect to your why. Like because if you connect to your why, if you find your personal legend in the work that you're doing, I think it changes the way we show up. Because Alex, to your point, you stop measuring yourself in how much funding did I raise? Who is on my board? Did I grow at 25%, 50%, hundred percent? What ranking did I get? All of that, you know, all that matters. But like the purpose, the path of purpose in giving your gifts becomes the fuel. Everything else is just a measurement of are you succeeding and what's getting in the way. So I want to get your reaction to that.

Yeah, I mean we often are using the wrong measures of success and it's not our fault. This is our conditioning. And so we fall back onto our conditioning. What we've learned from school, from business, from our parents, from society, etc. And if we can start to change our thinking around that and think about am I the content of what's happening or I'm the context or the way that Sri Kara says am I the actor or am I the character, right? And if I remember. So sometimes I get all caught up because I think I'm the character in the play, right? And the character in the play is the CEO and I've got to do this and I've got to do that and I've got a certain way in my mind of playing the character and I think I'm the character. I get too over identified with the character. What if instead then I remember and I switch in my head and I said no, I'm. I'm the actor, right? So I'm going to be here throughout. I have an opportunity to play lots of characters in My life and my job is to play each character as well as possible, but not get so caught up in the trials and tribulations of every single one of these. And that's a pretty Jedi move for people, right? Because it's easy to say, and it's really, really hard to do when you're in the middle of it. Right.

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Absolutely. Right. And, oh, by the way, since we are on the character, the actor, right? Like, I want to think that. Like, this thought that comes is. I want to take that forward. By the way, everything we see and experience, we project in our mind, right? Like, think about this for a moment. Right now, you're listening to Alex and I on this podcast. If you're watching on YouTube, you're looking at us, but where are you really looking at us? You know, all it is is light going through your eyes, and you're creating an image. It's probably upside down, small at the back of your head that you're kind of interpreting as, you know, Alex and I. But it's a projection of you. The sound that you're hearing is sound waves vibrating through your ears going in. And we're speaking in English, so it makes sense to you. Everything is a projection. So I might even build on it, Alex, and say, we're the actor. We are the character. You are also the director of your movie. You are the person who cast every person around you, right? Like, you're the one who you.

You get to make all the decisions.

You created, and you told that person to be the villain and that person to be the comic and that person to be the someone you hate. You're all of it, right? And you're the person seeing the whole thing. So, I mean, you know, talk about. Right, but just that separation from our state, what we are feeling can be such an unlock. And we. Again, going back to this moment of stepping back, unless you step back, you know, we are so enmeshed with that observer that you can't. You can't really see one from the other, and that's when you lose the clarity, right?

Yeah, that's exactly it. So, you know, for. For me, that work and. And those insights have been incredibly powerful. Let me tell you another one. Yes, another one that's been. That's been coming out that. That, that Hits for me and this is based on the 10x is easier than 2x work of Ben Hardy and and Dan Fellow. I fall into the trap of thinking small. I fall into the trap of oh, if I can just get one more, you know, whatever it is, one more feature, one more sale, one more year, one more this, one more that, you know, versus how do I really get out there and make an impact. And for me this is, it's about, it's about confidence, it's about creativity, it's about imagination. Mostly it's about courage, right? Having the courage to think big and to act big. And I find myself, you know, or I have found myself sort of at the margins trying to make small improvements to this or small improvements to that, you know, versus saying hey, I'm a talented, intelligent and creative person. I can literally do anything I want. Why don't I level up and think way, way bigger? And so to me it's a ch. Like it's not a natural state of being, right? So it's a challenge for me to take on that, take on that mantle or plant that flag and say I am going to try to do 10x50x100x. I'm going to make this completely different. I'm going to have the courage to, to do that. Because here's the thing, you know what they say, if you, if you aim for the moon, you might hit the stars, you know, kind of thing. So you may not, I may not hit a goal of going a hundred times bigger or 50 times bigger, but because I'm adopting that mindset and because I'm adopting that discipline, there's a very good chance I'm going to do a hell of a lot better than two times right where I am today.

I love that. Don't think small, right? Really go, go for the stars. Think really, really big. Because by the way, you know, that's how you also separate. That's. You actually capture the attention too because there are 10,000 people trying to do the small incremental things, right?

There's a really interesting story about that and it's, it's old, it's from like the 40s or 50s. I don't even remember who said it. But the, the basic idea was when you're looking at the job market, right, there were like a hundred times more applicants for the then equivalent salary of like, you know, whatever, a hundred thousand dollar job or something like that. Like some like decent job but kind of normal. And there were a tiny fraction of the number of applicants for a Million dollar job, right Is. Is what this guy was saying. So to your point, everyone is competing, the whole world is competing in this incremental 2x mindset. And one of the greatest things that you can do is simply shift your thinking to get into the bigger mindset. Because guess what? That's where the blue ocean is. That's where the opportunities are. That's where you can really make an impact.

Yeah, And I love that concept, right, friends? And I think, just think about this. I think it's natural because we live. Look. And I think this is where I think these two worlds are. So I fundamentally be united. We are going to talk about outer moves and inner moves. That's what we are continuously talking about in this. So the outer move is think really big. Now, if you want to do that, you have to be willing to dissolve. The inner move is dissolve your ego. Because the ego will always play safe. The ego will say, how dare you think that big? Now you like fucking stupid. Like, really, you think you like, I want to change the world. Like, who are you? Right. Like why this is so silly. The ego will say, this is what you know, this is what you have. So stay in your, you know, stay in your budget. Stay in what you've got. Stay, stay. Do not go over your skis. I'm not suggesting you go over your skis and you have, you know, mortgage your house and two other houses you don't have and lend and go do that. That's not what I'm saying. Actions can be constrained. They can be small, grounded in where you are. But your thinking needs to be unconstrained.

Yes, right.

You have to really, when you're dreaming, dream big. Don't dream small, then. Obviously grounded in where I am. And what's the smallest move, but at least the move you'll make is towards something big rather than something small. I think that's what Alex is inviting you to do. And the only way that's possible is if you dissolve the ego. You don't focus on what I can do, but really orient towards. Again, that first point we were making. What's your purpose? Why are you doing this? How will the world be better for it? And if the world has to be better, then you have to talk about the world, not just the 50 people you're going to serve to earn a living.

Yeah, there's a really cool frame here which is to ask yourself, if you're an entrepreneur, am I playing an infinite game or am I playing a finite game? So the finite game, I'm playing to win. I'm playing to get something. So this is. There's that book by James Car about this, right? So am I playing just for. For to win the game or to get some kind of, you know, reward or something? Or am I playing an infinite game where the reward is to keep playing the game?

Yes.

And so the more that I do the inner work, the more that I reflect on myself, the more. The more that I'm prepared to change who I am. As my business and my world is evolving, the more I get to play the infinite game. And so that's why I always say that the inner game is an infinite game. To me, there's nothing more fun in the world than this. It's like the thing I like the most. And so I just try to say, can I keep playing this game?

I love it. Drop another. Another. What is another? Wisdom, A learning personal through your own life or others that stays with you. Alex. That is. That can be transformational.

So there's a term that. That Dr. Gay Hendricks came up with called zone of genius. And Dan Sullivan and Ben Hardy talk about this as unique ability. And they're pretty. They're pretty parallel. If you figure if you master this, it is a really tremendous advantage for you as an entrepreneur. And so here's what we mean by zone of genius, or unique ability. It is the thing that only you can do. It is the thing that you were literally put on this earth to do. It's work that you do that doesn't feel like work. It's the kind of thing that people are just amazed to see you do it. And it's something that feels like a state of flow while you were doing it. And here's the. The master move. So I know that that sounds very generic, right? And everyone's like, yeah, yeah, I know, I should do that. Focus on my strengths, etc. That's great. But here's the master move. The master move is to get out of your zone of excellence, which is where you're making money, you're getting recognition. People know that you do this stuff very well. Like, think of Ashish at McKinsey. Oh, yeah, she's very smart. And you're on a career ladder and you're talking to all these fancy people all over the world. Then you make partner. And you know all this, oh, look, you. You were in your zone excellence, right? Me. And you're making money doing it, and you're getting accolades and it feels good. But you probably said to yourself, I think I can do more in the world, something that I can tap into. So the zone of genius says, again, coming back to the theme of courage, have the courage to say, look, I'm going to park this excellent stuff that I'm good at and get paid for because I'm going to chase the flame that is inside me.

Yes.

And I'm going to do the thing, not many things, the thing that I am perfectly suited for. And that's what I'm going to dedicate my life to. That is your unique ability. That is your zone of genius. So the courage element comes from being willing to change what you've been doing so far, to drop the things that are no longer totally of service to your own genius and to commit yourself to that. So it's courage and commitment. So it's really easy to say this. Oh, go to your unique ability. Go you be your own genius. Everyone says, yeah, yeah, I know. But the other with the hard part is stop everything that you've been doing that's keeping you in your zone of excellence and then imagine what your life could be like if you lived in your zone.

Yeah. No, and I love. And I love that idea. Right? Because it is so true. There is some stuff that nobody wants to do they don't want to. Like, that's fine, right? This middle path of zone of excellence is actually something you can easily fall into because, hey, you are doing it, quote, unquote, better than many others, right?

Yes.

It might even be something that you know, in some shape or form. Like, look, I mean, I love my time at McKinsey because, you know, it, obviously it strokes the ego. You can call somebody, they'll take your call. People really want you for your expertise. You have unbelievable time, talent. You can do amazing stuff. Right. For the work that I was doing, which was in operations, right. Like, it was amazing. Like, there was no project I did, Alex, for a client where we didn't return 4 to 8x their fees and many times recovered our fees in the year, fiscal, year that they paid us. Right? So, like, it's like infinite npv. But that was my zone of excellence because that work that I was doing in operations didn't feel my soul. That was not like I could do it and I could get so much done because deep within that zone of excellence was the things that I was really, really good at, which is with operators, with leaders, being able to connect human to human and get them to trust me to make the big moves that made the transformation possible. Right. Like to go from 4% savings a year over year to 10% is not working twice as hard. It was doing different things, changing status quo and the ability to build the trust, the ability to get people to do that stuff was what was specific. And so with what, as you say with now, I'm like, if I just focus on that and I say now, I want to actually care about this inner world. Because most high performance out there today is driven at the cost of well being, not through well being. When we know that the science is so clear around a different way of operating. Now I can use that zone of genius of mine to focus on that rather than all the other stuff. And all of a sudden, right, there are a bunch of other people who can keep doing that, or there are other, you know, like, I, I love that idea. Because the trick about this does not.

I mean, yes, there's a process to understand what is my zone of genius or what is my unique ability. Okay, you can do that. We did that at a workshop with Gay Henry. We had a bunch of entrepreneurs in the room. Everyone sits down, talks about it and they. You sort of get some clarity around. That's the easy part. The hard part is then committing to living in your zone of genius. Totally different conversations.

Totally different conversations and friends just to make this practical. Look, I get it, you know, Alex and I get it. We're not going to get you to do something that you know is like, just theoretical, right? So I don't think you can 100% be in your journal of genius. Because when you're starting out, there is a bunch of stuff that needs to be done. And unless, you know, you have a rich dad or mom and, or like a benefactor who's giving you a check and you can hire all the people to do your zone of excellent stuff and the zone of bullshit stuff that you don't want to do, you're not going to be. But I think, here's the thing that I want you to consider. Find 20, 30, 40, 50, whatever percentage is possible and just actually block the time on your calendar to do the Joan of Xenia stuff. And over time, grow it, right? Over time, grow it, but at least calendar it. Because guess what? Without that, the zone of bullshit and zone of excellence will take up 90%. And then the only thing you're doing is in those moments when those sparks come and you're in your Jono Xenius for the rest of the time, you're not.

Well, like here, here's another way that this stuff manifests. It manifests as people who just live for the Weekend. Right. Who just leave, who. Who don't like their jobs, who are just grinding through it. I mean, another way to put this is. It's burnout, right? So one of the symptoms of not living in your zone of genius and not living in your unique ability is burnout.

Absolutely.

Burnout is totally misconception. Let me just share about this for a second. So there's huge misconceptions about burnout. People think, oh, burnout is simply, oh, you're tired, you need to go spend a week on the beach in Florida. Relax. Burnout is fundamentally a spiritual problem. It's a misalignment of where my energy wants to go versus where my energy is going. And if they're out of alignment, it just wears me down. It. It literally, it's the grind that I'm. That I'm hit. So if I can then say I'm going to commit to living in zone of genius, living in my unique ability, then that's going to help with burnout. But burnout is really characterized by three things. First is physical exhaustion. So, yes, I'm tired, I'm depleted, I don't have energy. Maybe I'm getting out of bed. Chronic, chronic, chronic exhaustion. The second is cynicism or depersonalization, which means all the problems that I feel like I are important to me or that I quote, unquote, should be caring about suddenly seem very distant. And I actually don't really care about the outcome anymore. It doesn't matter to me whether it's a yes or a no or black or white or this or that. I suddenly feel like I'm less involved. I'm less committed to the process. So that's what the cynicism and deep.

Personalization and this notion that nothing I do will make a difference, nothing is going to make things better. Right? So I'm just gonna show up and go through the motions.

Correct. And so, so number three is the third.

The.

The third impact of. Of burnout is lack of professional effectiveness. Meaning I just can't get the results I used to. I'm. I feel like I'm just like, pushing paper or I'm pushing a rock up a hill, and I'm not getting anything done.

So.

So. So the reason that I want to share this is there's real life consequences to not listening to these voices inside yourself. There are real consequences to not paying attention to where your energy wants to go. And it can manifest burnout, which can be totally debilitating for your life and for your career. And so the more that you can say, I'm going to spend time doing what I'm great at. I'm going to spend time doing what I love. I'm going to spend time thinking big and I have the courage to commit to doing that. That is going to be super beneficial to you as an individual.

You know, Alex, I'm going to play those three things back to you because as you know, before I left at McKinsey, I was literally working on stress and research and burnout trends. Here's the numbers. Look at that November 2023 paper on this holistic wellbeing at McKinsey. 16% of the US are burnt out. The global number is 22%. India, where I spent a bunch of time in 24. The number is 59%, 59%, 59. And burnout is a clinical diagnosis. It is not, you know, oh, I burnt out. Which people tend to use a lot. It has real consequences. Going on a week or a two week vacation is not going to solve it. Okay? It's not going to solve it. So I want you to just think about this now rate yourself from a scale of 1 to 5 on the three markers that Alex talked about. I feel exhausted, physically exhausted most of the time. Five can be most, one can be never. Right? Think about that. Second, I feel a high level of cynicism towards my job or my work. Like whatever you're doing in life, right? I high degree of cynicism. And three, you recognize on a scale of one to five, how effective are you? What you can be doing versus how effective are you? And you will know it and you can think about it both as cognitive effectiveness, our ability to think clearly and get stuff done and emotional regulation, our ability, right? Can I actually handle things when they don't go right way or I just completely fly off the handle or I'm to my ground and I have emotional outbursts. 1 to 5. Think about these three things and if you are consistently rating yourself on, on a four or a five on all three, seek professional help. Call your EAP line, call your insurance, get help because you are like it is. You are not going to get out of their way by sleeping more. And by the way, even if you quit your job, that's not going to be the cure because it might only make things work. So it is a medical diagnosis. Please take care of yourself and think about it. And yes, Alex, lack of meaning, not being in a zenius is, you know, this was like six years I didn't know when I first happened to me, right? And for Me, I didn't really necessarily burn out, but I was fundamentally suffering a crisis of meaning because I used to wake up in 2014, 15, when I started on this journey, because I was waking up with anxiety. Like, I was ready to throw up every morning. And I was like, why? Like, everything else seems to be fine. I'm working, I'm traveling, and, like, there's no issues, like, why am I anxious? Right. But it's a very real issue, friends. So I think, please, please do consider, you know, doing that test one to five. It's called the masslack Burnout inventory. You can look it up. It was created by Christina Maslach, and I think seek help, I think, is the big thing. So, Alex, I want to switch gears a bit from entrepreneur life, work life. We've talked about so many things, inner work, lessons you've learned from others. I want to shift to you, my friend. You are one of the most productive you are in so many places. You have so many different projects. You know, you just shifted away from your account management company. You've got the Conscious Entrepreneur Summit. I know how much effort that is. And you've got one. I'm so excited you told me it's coming up May 28th and 29th. I'm going to try my level best to be there. You said, you know, you've got Dr. Ben Hardy. I think it's going to be an amazing, amazing, amazing person to speak and listen to. You have, of course, your Conscious Entrepreneur podcast. And then you're starting a new community around account management. And I don't even. And I know you're kind of involved because with Ryan, I was spending some time on the Conscious Capitalism chapter launch in Colorado. You know, I think we're gonna involve you in that. And there are so many other things you're involved in. So you're not somebody who is sitting in an ashram or kind of living, you know, you're all over. What is your personal operating model, Alex, how do you fuel yourself? How are you? What are some things that you do? They're part of your routine every day. That give you that level of energy, that give you that level of, you know, what you do that might be. I might take two, three of somebody else to do what you're doing as one person.

It. Yeah, you know, thanks for that question. I do have a big capacity for. For work, so. Because generally speaking, I've got a. I've got a big capacity for. For work, and I'm able to process stuff pretty quickly, which, Which I Which I love to do. But what I found most is I get. Even though I'm. I'm an introvert, I get. I get energy from community. I get energy from building the communities I want to be a part of. And so Conscious Entrepreneur is a community that I wish I had had 10 years ago. It's. It's a. It's what I wanted. I'm solving the problem that I have, if you will. Right. And so that is a big part of finding energy is being with a tribe of people where we know we other, we understand what's going on, we can relate to each other, and we can connect with each other deeply. So I'm lucky to have that community. I'm lucky to have a community of very supportive friends and people who are looking out, not just at the surface level type of stuff, but really I feel like, have my back and are looking out for me as a person person. That gives me a ton of energy as well. My relationship with my wife gives me a ton of energy also. Right. It's supportive, it's caring. We are. We are mutually always on the lookout for one another. We are mutually committed to each other's growth. So those standards, like having that stuff in place really makes a huge, huge difference, you know. Are there other things that I do? Yes. I exercise all the time and I go to the sauna all the time, and I meditate all the time, and I read all sorts of cool books and. And do retreats and, you know, watch videos that are inspiring and, and this sort of thing, those are. Those are things that you. You simply. You simply have to do. But for me, the number one commitment that I've made is to myself. And the number one commitment I made to my life is understanding who I am and witnessing my development and my expression in the world. And this sounds like completely nuts if you're not in on the zone that, that you and I are on this. On this wave of. So for most of my MBA friends or most of my undergraduate friends, like, it doesn't may. It may not relate to that, but I've decided that this is my greatest joy in life, is simply experiencing myself.

Right.

And learning about myself as I go through the world. And so what that means is I can find time and capacity to do those. The things that are aligned with that. I don't have a lot of time for other activities. I don't get value at all. Like, I say no to a lot of stuff. I don't. There's a lot of things I simply don't do, like, I watch very little tv, for example. I don't, like, I'm not into sports. Like, I don't do a lot of things that I don't find are part of that general route for myself. So. So the discipline, you know, the flip side of the commitment to all this is, is the discipline to maintain it. And so for me, the discipline comes from the identity. So I just, I have an identity for myself that says I am the type of person who is healthy and I know my values. And one of my values is inner exploration and growth. And one of my values is adventure. And one of my values is helping other people to become the best versions of themselves. I'm going to do the things that align to that. Anything else, if it involves driving or watching a football game or a baseball game or watching something silly on tv does not fall into the category of things I care about.

Alex. For those who are watch, who'll watch this on YouTube, they'll see me smile, like, I'm like just literally ear to ear. Because you know how they say, you know, you've heard of this story, right? Two fish going in water and then there's this older fish coming from the other side. And he asked these two, hey, kids, how's the water? And the fish say, what's water? Right, right. So you rolled off a bunch of things and you're like, yeah, you know, everybody does this and this and this and this and this and this and like, you know, like, like, like my thing is this. So I'm going to play those back because I don't think most people do even two, three of these things. Okay. I think the only thing that maybe people do might be I work out every day or like five days a week or whatever. Okay.

Which is a great start.

Yeah, fantastic, great, awesome. Kudos. You know, check the box. By the way, if you look at the research around exercise and your effect on long term cardiovascular health, if you work out for an hour a day and sit on your ass for the next 12, 14, working and sleeping and watching TV, zero effects on long term cardiovascular benefits. Right? Zero. Sitting is the new smoking. So sorry to break your bubble, but fantastic. At least you work out a day, every morning. But here are some of the other things you said which are so powerful, you know, and I'm going to do it in. I just wrote it down. So, like, I think this was to know your values. Who are you beyond your job, beyond, you know, how old you are, what zip code you live in, how much money is your bank what are your values and how do you want to live in coherence with that? Have you done the work to even know that? Well, I don't know. Like, I haven't. What are my values? Like, yeah, know that. I think it's really important because that then provides. Alex, how you live your life. You say no to a lot of things. How many of us say yes just because. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, I'll come watch the game with you. It'll allow us to bond a little bit. And now all of a sudden, I've spent an hour and a half and I've had some beers and, you know, God forbid, also some nachos. And, like, everything is out the plan. And so when you know your values and who you are, then you know what you're saying yes to. But 80% of the other things you're saying no to, and you're doing it not to be mean, not to be, you know, but truly, because you want to live. There's only 247 hours, right, that we all have. And you want to live. Live in a way that is coherent, that is allowing you to go to where you want to go. I think so. That's the second point. You just live it. Alex. You do it so beautifully, but I think it's a struggle for all of us, including me. You know, the third is relationships matter. And really, I know your relationship with your beautiful wife and with your friends and with your community that you're creating. The quality of relationships is one of the biggest drivers of flourishing. Longest study from Harvard. And so I love that you are an embodiment of that. Many people have that with their immediate family, but not beyond. And you are one who. Who literally, my friend, your relational web through our community is an inspiration for me and for so many others. And I think it's an invitation to all who are listening, invest in that web. Find your values, your why, your identity, and build relationships that are coherent with that, Right? So you're really spending time on it. And then, of course, meditation, you know, like you're a regular meditator. It's the most proven practice that can fundamentally allow us to dissolve the ego, something we talked about earlier, allow us to take that balcony moment that sees ourself as the actor, character, director, villain, all of that thing. Also maybe the critic who's gonna watch the movie and write the story, right? Or what worked and what didn't work. So meditation, something is really something that I think you talked about. You know, you talked about sauna and I think the other one I loved was reading, right? How many of us read continuously, read not to get stuff done, but read for personal growth and whether it is philosophies, whether it's spiritual scriptures, whatever your religious beliefs are, but just really reading for personal growth and playing the infinite game, being committed to the infinite game of the journey inwards to really know who am I? Who am I? Beyond the title. So anyway, Alex, I was chuckling because I wrote all of these down. You could spend a lifetime doing every one of these things alone. But I think, you know, that's the path. You know, do we all do it all the time? No, but I think if we start to kind of build a program and integrate these, I think it can make a big difference. And friends, if you're listening, I think these are such of so many of the ingredients behind Rewire, the program that we've created. Alex and I ran a version of that. We have now run that with Ford Collins. We have done that with Danone, with Pepsi, with Leeds. And really, it's a program of practice. There is nothing new. Like literally, you will learn nothing new in the program. You will learn nothing new that you can't get from this free podcast. Zero. But what it is is a space for us to practice. Because knowledge is not power anymore, friends. Knowledge is just noise. Because there is so much knowledge out there, many contradicting today in the Wall Street Journal. There are two studies, one that says alcohol is bad. The second there's alcohol not so bad. Knowledge is noise. What's power is practice, right? And you practice so far that you become that like, Alex just rolled these off his tongue. Here's all the things that I do, but I think it's practice. So if you're interested in practicing, you should really come to the summit. You should engage, listen to the podcast. You should engage with us on Rebuyer because if we do this inner work, if you play this infinite game, trust me, my friends, our life, all the games we are playing out there are just finite. They'll be over. You'll succeed in them. You'll get higher performance because you're willing to do the real work, which is the inner work. So with that, my friend, thank you. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. I'm so looking forward to meeting up in a couple of weeks. Tag Alex on Monday. This coming on Monday, actually, you're going to miss it. But regardless, tag Alex. When this podcast comes out on Monday is his birthday. He's turning 49. So please wish him. Please, please wish him a belated happy birthday because I know you'll find this and just say thank you and get involved with the movement that he's leading. Thank you for listening Alex. Thank you for sharing your insights. God bless you my friend.

You Bevan thank you so much for having me. Thank you for the work that you do. It's a pleasure to be here and connect with you.

Bye.

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