Workplace Mental Health Awareness with Genevieve Bonin

Welcome to the Happiness Squad Podcast. Your weekly dose of practical tips and inspiration to help you operate at your fullest potential, integrating the science of flourishing into how you live, work and lead. I'm your host, Ashish Kothari, the founder and CEO of Happiness Squad and author of the bestselling book Hardwired for Happiness. I will be your personal guide on your journey to explore the many facets of happiness, wisdom, well being and flourishing, from personal growth to building more positive environments at work. In each episode we will share powerful insight, tips and stories from our guests who are leading experts, company executives and flourishing solution providers that you can implement right away to make happiness your competitive edge. Whether you're looking to overcome life's challenges, to go from good to great, or to enhance your team's performance through flourishing, this podcast is the place for you to find more joy, health, love and meaning in everything you do. Join us every week as we rewire for Happiness Together. Welcome to yet another episode of the Happiness Squad Podcast. Today we are joined by Genevieve Bonin, former military officer and currently a Managing Director and partner with the Boston Consulting Group. Jen focuses on building diverse, high performing teams together to create impactful change and bring value to society. In today's episode, we will explore Jen's personal journey, her groundbreaking research on mental health in Canada, and how her findings are shedding light on the substantial impacts, in particular on the younger adult population. In this episode, Jen and I discuss the economic and social costs of mental health issues, delve into the drivers behind the current mental health crisis, and the pivotal role that businesses need to play in order to address this challenge. Stay tuned as we unpack the need for organizations to foster a culture of well being, the importance of generative leadership, and the strategies to build resilience among employees. This conversation, dear friends, is all about transforming our workplaces and leadership styles so we can create supportive environments where everyone can thrive. Stay till the end when Jen shares her own personal practices that help her find balance and flourishing in the workplace. Now join me in welcoming Jen to the Happiness Squad podcast. Hi Jen, it is so lovely to have you on our podcast. Thank you for the taking time to share the amazing research and the work you are doing in the space of mental health and well being.

Thank you Ashish. It's actually a privilege to be on this podcast today.

So my friend, we go back a long ways. I would love for you to share a little bit with our listeners about, you know, your own personal story and how you, after such an accomplished career in the forces in consulting, decided to make mental health and well being a big priority area for you.

Well, Ashish, I learned about the importance of mental health and wellbeing very early in my life as some of my family members were suffering from mental health issues. And my mother was a key role model in setting the tone to opening talk about what was happening in our family and how to support them. And this was really early days when we were not talking about these things. And then I joined the military and while I only served for seven years, I stayed very close to my classmates. They went on various deployments. Many of them got negatively, you know, affected, impacted. And I always kind of felt like I had. While I left the forces, it was my duty to find a way that could, you know, to support them. And this is why I serve on numerous boards, philanthropy boards of organizations such as the Royal Ottawa Hospital Institute for Mental Health Research, True Patriot Love foundation, which helps like our serving members, veterans and their families with physical and mental health rehabilitation. Invictus 2025, which is an amazing organization that looks at bringing some of our injured members into a setting where they can actually learn from each other and then sort of participate and learn and heal. But also as a people leader with various consulting organizations and now imagine director and partner with global consultancy firm where people are the number one asset. I have witnessed many of my colleagues burning out over time and one, it was too late sometimes. So opening up the dialogue to reduce stigma, especially in a high performing environment, is so key. And this is why I've become a champion of mental health and well being. It's my point of view that nobody should suffer in silence.

You know, I love that story and the important word is silence. And I would even say, you know, Jen, from my work, unawareness, you know, there's so many people who before they burn out, are not even aware, right. That they are because we are just taught and especially the kind of talent we attract in the consulting firms we worked at. Insecure, overachievers. I can do anything. I've always gone through walls. I have a high tolerance for pain. And you keep going, going till you hit the wall. So awareness and silence and then we don't like to talk about it because we feel it is something, there is something wrong with us. You know, we are happy to say I have a cough, I'm not feeling well, I have a fever. But if I'm struggling with any of the classic symptoms that come with stress, anxiety, depression, we hide them.

I couldn't agree more. It's just absolutely so, you know, you.

Just did some cutting edge research and part of awareness is, you know, the amazing work you've just done. And I it was on the Canadian workers, right. State of mental health, especially you focused on younger adults. And it was, I mean, it was quite eye opening. So I would love for you to share a little bit around the insights that you found as you've studied on the state of the world that we are living in right now. And part of the reason I want you to share that is so that people feel not alone. You know, if you're struggling with it, you're not alone.

I again couldn't agree more and thank you for that. But yes, we did conduct a piece of research. We decided to focus on the young population because the hypothesis was that those had been really majorly negatively impacted by especially the pandemic and everything that kind of spanned from that. And here are some of the key findings. Our research was focused on Canada, although I have many more other pieces of research that are global in nature from the, you know, firm that I work for. But here are the highlights from the Canada research. So Canada is experiencing a major mental health crisis with material human costs, which unfortunately will likely worsen over time if it's not addressed. And the crisis is disproportionately affecting young workers. So Gen Z workers, based on our research are less likely to find purpose in work. They're less engaged and they likely look forward to going to not wanting to go to their workplace. And then second fact is like 40% of Canadian workers between the ages of 18 and 24, although we did extend to age 28 at the end of our research, they feel like they're at the mental health breaking point. So nearly two times more than workers of other ages. And the stressors disproportionately impact certain population such as black community, indigenous people, people with visible minorities. And then those are the facts you mentioned.

This is research you did in Canada, but you've done broader research quite close to some of the work that my Rx McKinsey colleagues did. The numbers are the same in the US the numbers are actually much worse in many of the developing countries. You know, one of the over this holidays, one of the reasons I stayed back in India was the level of burnout in India was like 59, 60%. Not people struggling, but literally numbers for burnout using the clinical, you know, symptoms, using the Christina Maslach index. And so it's a really big issue. And I'm curious, as you dug into it, you obviously described lack of meaning, what Were some of the other drivers, Jen, that you were noticing that is behind this much higher impact on this group?

The average working adult spends nearly 40% of their active lives at work with the workplace being the number one stressor. And it strongly impacts our overall well being. So another fact is Today more than 25% of Canadians report that work stressors are the primary source of stress. And about 20% of new entrants into the workforce report that transitioning into the workforce has had a negative effect on their mental well being. So at work, unresolved conflict, poor leadership are two of the biggest influencers of poor mental health and well being. And I'll be happy to tell you a bit more about that based on your future questions.

Yeah, no, I want to actually get into that a bit because there is this notion of, as you said, conflict. There's a lot of conflict, there's a lot of demand, work demands, time demands and pressures, but also this notion of leadership and how we show up. So I am curious say more around that. I, by the way, loved your, I loved one of the articles that you all had published around generative leadership as kind of one of the key ways in which we can address it. So now let's talk a little bit about it and then I want to go into a couple of other areas with you.

Awesome. Let's go.

So you described, Jen, the high number of younger workers who are affected. What I really liked about your research also was that you actually quantified the real economic and social costs associated with that. So share a little bit around that.

There are two angles here. From a social perspective. Nearly one in two Canadians experience mental health illness by the time they are 40. With about an average of 20% of Canadians experiencing mental health problems or illness in a given year. The human cost is an average of 4,000 Canadians die annually by suicide alongside annual opioid related death, which is really unfortunate, and mental health related fatalities. And they surpass the number one of those cause of death and you know, ahead of automobile incidents, which is like really crazy. But from an economic perspective, you know, we were able to quantify that the total cost of mental health and loss in productivity is an average of 220 billion annually in Canada. From things such as absenteeism like loss of productivity, not being able to work, showing up at work, but not really being there.

Yeah, and that's, you know, if I look at the Canadian GDP, that's almost 10%. Right? There's a 10 to 12% 2.6 trillion. So 10, about 10 to 12% number. So it's a real, real economic cost. And I love that. I really love the quantification. Jen, as you know, at Happiness Squad, one of the big things that we're doing is we built a model very similar. My estimate when we ran this survey and that we've been doing this work with companies, our estimate is that on average most companies, they're only getting 30% of the full potential that is in their organizations. Right. So where we have all of these groups and we are losing it because they don't find meaning, they're struggling with stress. They're all of these different levers because the same losses that exist in physical assets exist for human assets. So I love the fact that when you talk about this work, you're actually tying it to like there is a real cost. And I think there's a real important business case for change, especially given so much of the stressors are work related. We need the partnership with corporations. Right. To make a difference. Yeah.

And you know, it depends. Like you could have two terms for it. You could call it presenteeism, which is when you're there, or absenteeism, which is you go to work but you're not there. And that's really kind of, you know, how we were able to, based on, you know, serving thousands of people saying like, are you really there when you're at work? And we were able to quantify that by saying, I'm there, but I'm not really there and I'm not productive because, yeah, I'm not happy.

Yeah, it goes back to this whole quiet quitting. You know, that became kind of a really word that. I hadn't heard of the word quite kidding till about, right. A year ago and now all over for a moment it was like, people are quite quitting. Right.

Just when you kind of give up, you just, I think I'm done. And then you actually just exit, you know, without any sort of like meaningful conversation before you do so.

So let's dig into, Jen, some of the key drivers, you know, behind this mental health crisis that we're swimming in. You mentioned meaning is a big part of it. Work stressors are a big part of it. Any other drivers that you found which might be specific to Canada, but also you've done this work for a long time and you've done lots of other research. What are some other drivers that you're finding? Why is this particular population so much more impacted?

Thank you for the question around key drivers of mental health crisis. So let me give you again a Few facts around that. The average working adult spends nearly 40% of their active lives at work workplace stressors strongly impacting their overall well being. And Today more than 25% of Canadians report that work stressors are their primary source of stress. And about 20% of new entrants into the workforce report that transitioning into the workforce had a negative impact on their mental well being. And you know, I talked about unsolved conflict and poor relationship leadership being at the top biggest influencers of poor mental health and well being. But if I go back to transitioning into the workforce at a negative impact on especially young workers is, you know, I called them, you know, the, the COVID population. They were people who, you know, were absolutely isolated and some of the most probably formative years of their lives, they missed on each moment that you know, would probably form them in terms of like being able to have meaningful social interactions. They learned a way of working to graduate from college and, or graduate from university or whatever that would be. That became a little bit of the norm and doing that not only in a hybrid, you know, position, but also in a very isolated position. So now you bring them into the workforce and some of them actually joining the workforce and never seeing anybody in their company for the first two or even three years of the first years that they actually joined their company. And what you're dealing with is something that's like completely dramatically different. That therefore requires a new ways of understanding what their needs are, how to bring them along and a different type of leadership at play in order to be able to, you know, come back to, you know, a healthy workforce environment for these folks.

Yeah, you know, I wonder is I also, I get curious about, right this is this age group, especially our younger adults in the U.S. by the way, mental health. New recent report from Gallup number 23 US is ranked in terms of overall happiness when it comes to younger adults. I think it's, it's in the 60s. This is also the smartphone generation. Right. If I think about their years from the 2000 forwards and personal story, I now I feel terrible. You know, I have a 14 year old and I feel terrible about putting him in front of an iPad. Especially when we took long trips, especially overseas. You know, Lizzie's English, so we went quite often to England, sometimes to India and those devices just completely engrossed, you know, engrossed the kids. So we could sleep or we could kind of not have a crying or kind of baby who wants to run around everywhere. But now when I think about the effects of that and what I've learned since on my research around neuroscience and the effect of that on the brain, I really wonder how much of an effect that has had on this population in terms of their mental resilience. You know, I think their brain structures are different than many others.

I couldn't agree more. I mean I have now a 24 year old son, 23 year old son, 22, 20 year old daughter and a 16 year old son. And what they went through, I mean, forget about just the introduction of social media and screens and you know, which happened before the pandemic, but during the pandemic that was so, you know, obviously I call it dead moment and then it just actually got completely consumed by that. I think it's okay because I mean, in a way, let's look at the positive side. They could actually use not only social media, but screens and access to information in order to learn. And I saw a lot of my children doing exactly that, just looking at learning resources, filling the void by learning all sorts of different things. The downside was a little bit maybe from the social media part whereby there's really limited social connection. It's all happening, you know, through digital media. There's, in those formative years like you want to be acknowledged, you want to be connecting, you want to. But the level of connection is so different. And I really do think that at some point we'll be studying the long term negative effect of what it did on those people and that generation overall.

So I want to go to this notion of if we have to solve this crisis, just looking at the data you shared, right? Looking at what people are struggling with, we have to involve employers and workplaces and fundamentally redesign workplaces and help leaders lead differently. All leadership styles are not going to work. Are you seeing organizations make well being a priority and if not, how are you getting them to move on this?

Yes, that's the good news for today. So increasingly we are seeing that mental health and well being is becoming a top priority. It's mainly also with organizations who really understand, you know, what could be the impact, you know, from a business standpoint. And that's some of the work that I do is, you know, this is about, you know, being able to get results for your business if you address that. I mean organizations that are doing well, you know, will do a number of things and there's, I like to, you know, put it in four strategic initiatives. You know, like first of all those organization and employers, they need to prioritize mental health and well being. They need to see it as a business imperative and they need to actually quantify what it means. If they invest in this, it obviously will address not only challenges, but it will actually lead to better productivity, better business results. Right. The second thing that they do is they invest in developing generative leaders. And I can talk to you more about the concept of generative leadership, but it's going beyond just having leaders formed on what I call their heads. So they establish strategic priorities and they can create action plans and lead the teams or hands, which is more of the operational component of what a leader would be required to be doing. But heart and heart means to be able to show up as a servant leader, somebody who can be listening, empathetic, and it'll be able to bring the people along in a way that again will really sort of take into consideration what's required of the people that they lead. And when I say lead, I mean I'm not looking at all executive, you know, vice presidents of company. Anybody is a people leader. You know, I would say that a mother, you know, is a people leader because she's leading her kids and. Or a barista at Starbucks. Right. The third one is about really investing in building employee resilience. So it's equipping employees with training, resources, processes, like to manage some of those workplace stressors and some of the job related setbacks. And the fourth one would be just to provide access to structured systems and the tools, counseling, peer network, you name it. And so those are the things that would bring some of our top employers and leaders to more of a competitive edge in terms of the environment that they create for the people in their organization and resulting into true business impact.

We hope you're enjoying this episode. If you'd like to start building habits and integrating the hardwired for happiness practices into your life, come check out Rewire, our program on the Happiness Squad website. Rewire contains 35 minute micro practices that can help you truly build habits for a happier, healthier life filled with more love and meaning. The program uses the science of habit formation and the power of community to support you in moving from knowing to doing to being. Now back to the episode. I love those priorities. They're so clear and they're holistic. Right. So it's about taking pro. I liked your last one because this is about let's give the support and create awareness for those who need it, who are struggling. But I especially like your second and third, which were let's proactively focus on building resilience and helping leaders lead in a way that result in less burnout, but instead results in more engagement, results in people working in ways that allow them to collaborate and create much better outcomes.

And when you talk about that, Ashish, sorry for cutting you off, but the engagement, it has to be meaningful and you have to walk the talk. It is not like a task to engage meaningfully. It is something you really need to mean and that's not something that you're going to learn through an athlete workshop or online 1 1/2 hour training session. This is something that organization need to build a program around such that they turn around the way that leaders think.

Say more around what a program like that could look like.

Jen first of all, it's a culture transformation. Second of all, as I just said, it is not a static one point in time. I've now been taught to be an empathetic leader or somebody who thinks with their heart. It's a journey. It does require for organizations to realize who are going to be the champion and who are the ones who are really going to be wanting to learn and get on the journey versus those who will never get there and promote those who will. It is about a very long term effort that engages leaders with their employees over, you know, an active period of time so that both parties can really, you know, hear each other out and be willing to actually make a change. And those organization who invest in all of these different things and again I say it's programmatic, it's multifold, it's over a long period of time will, you know, the result will be a major culture change. It will. The result will be better mental health and well being. The result will be a much happier workplace for everyone. And from a business standpoint, well, those who actually kind of get it, those organizations who get it will get to strive, meaning they're going to be in the sunset having much better results than anyone. Because at the end of the day there's nothing that we do that's not without people. So the ability to attract and retain people and have them super productive in the workplace is basically the business imperative of any organization.

Yeah, we're so in sync. I love that we had Alex Edmonds several episodes ago on our podcast. He's a London business school economist and he quantified the impact of really investing in employees and he used the employee satisfaction top places to work for our listeners. You can go back, look at that. Listen to that episode again. But 2 to 3.5% incremental shareholder returns versus peers, especially over the longer years. And I love what you said this is not a workshop. I always. In our, in the work I'm doing now, Jen, with companies I say this is not a training, it's a transformation. It truly is a culture transformation and it needs to be run and led by your line leaders, of course, supported by HR and other functions. But if you don't measure how you're doing, if you don't really support leaders in a journey to shift, we're not going to get there. Otherwise there's so many companies running well being seminars because that's going to fix it. Right.

And I mean, you know, Ashish, it's interesting. You know, I do a lot of work in defense and security.

Yes.

And fundamentally defensive security is a top priority for any nations in the world, right?

Yes.

You can buy a lot of planes, you can buy a lot of ships. I know Satcom equipment and missiles and radars. But at the end of the day, if you don't have the workforce behind it in order to kind of keep us all safe, I mean, you're doomed. It doesn't really matter how much you invest. Right. So I would argue that you could actually accomplish more, but make sure that you've got the right workplace when it comes to safety. And I'm referring to the military, but I would say the same for police force, I would say the same, my goodness, for health care frontline workers. And the list goes on. Right. The investment in people is, if you get that right, you know, the rest is simple or less hard. So it has to be the number one priority.

It has to be. We touched on this topic a couple of times, this notion of generative leaders. You mentioned head, heart and hands and I really loved that image and some of the details. Would you mind sharing a little bit more, going a little bit more into some of these attributes in particular about the heart because that's often such a missing link.

One of the issues that I see the most now with organizations that are struggling with the culture change and especially in establishing, you know, really safe mental health and wellbeing organization is one of the key issue that they face is psychological safety. And this is like, you know, specifically really important in some sectors or subsectors where this could actually lead to like really major harm, physical harm and, or even death. Right. And if you go in the concept of general leadership with the head, you know, you're reimagining and reinventing business to serve all key stakeholders. You're giving them, you know, the strategy, the action, the mission, you know, the whatever. Depending on what sector you're in, you know, with the hands, you're operationally sort of deploying the troops and measuring that and all your workforce and whatnot with the heart. What you're doing is you're creating that psychological safety. You are saying it's totally fine to have an open dialogue. You're saying, you know, there will be no stigma and repatriation in terms of like if you actually come forward and you know, share something of concern. If you look at certain industry would be as just to give an example is the difference between being in a whistleblower or being someone who's actually going to say like, there's something wrong here and you feel op completely open to be talking about this and. Or it could be when I say something wrong, it's like just not with respect to like the physical safety of people. But even from the mental health perspective, I mean, if a pilot is actually not feeling emotionally ready to get on a flight, then he shouldn't and he should be able to speak up or she should be able to speak up about the fact that they're not in a good place right now. So generative leaders will embrace the concept of leading with their hearts and that means this super active listening without zero stigma and without the total support that's required on the back end of it.

Yeah. And that is so important, right, because being able to listen deeply, hold space, suspend judgment and really through actions time and again show it's okay.

It's okay.

Right, because in the end, yeah, I mean, you know, I had one of the faculty directors for gynecological oncologists. It's such a big name, I like forget. It's the fellows. There's 270 of them. Right. And they're facing a huge burnout issue. They have large attrition. There are people who are actually dropping out from program because of the intensity. And we've been talking about it and he reached out to me because the work we are doing around flourishing and happiness really resonated with him. And he said, ashish, it's such an important issue because these residents are making life and death decisions for their patients. And if you are close to burnout or burnout, you're not thinking right. I mean your faculties are not at your best. And this is such a big issue. And so like you mentioned, you know, same story as you said about this is true for so many critical workers and people in key roles. You know, same is true in companies, but even bigger with police forces, armed forces, doctors, nurses, teachers. I think it's time we take action.

Oh, I couldn't agree more, Ashish. Like, I have the most amount of respect for all of the ones that you've just mentioned right now. And I would add our health care front workers. I mean as a public sector leader for my organization, I saw what they went through during the pandemic and obviously this was a spike. But I mean that's what they do every day. The resilience that this would have had to need, it's like in order for them to be able to continue to do what they did to keep us all safe is absolutely. It's a vocation. It is. To be 100% gratified is so. Yes. And I mean all roles are difficult. I would probably argue that there's some sectors which we undermine the amount of stress that they go in, you know, they go through. And there are different stressors. Like you know, in our study we looked at desk workers and you know, deskless workers for the young population. And the factors of stresses were very different but you know, they were kind of equal. You know, if you're a desk worker in the pandemic, you are spending 17 hours on a zoom. If you are a frontline worker, I mean, well, you were faced with other challenges that were just equally pretty stressful.

If you think about life threatening, literally.

Life threatening, life threatening. So I mean, I think what's important is for the leaders to recognize what those are, you know, the life threatening and, or the mental health and well being threatening incidents that are created as part of their own environment. Create something custom around it because they're not, you know, they are in fact different. And be really committed to eliminate those as, you know, as much as possible. And again, I cannot emphasize it enough, create a psychological safe environment for everybody to speak up.

Well, Jen, looking at, I mean we can go on and on, my friend, for a very, very long time. Right. It's something that both of so deeply cared about. It's so needed. I want to end our conversation with just some personal well being practices that allow you to find balance, that allow you to serve on so many different boards. You know, lead the work that you're doing and take care of your family, take care of yourself. What are some tips and tricks that are in your toolbox?

Oh, well, some people would say that I've been trained to have a very high level of resilience because I was trained as a military officer. But the reality, and some people sometimes say, like, well, Jen is always fine. Well no, you know, I have felt at times overwhelmed. I'VE lost my balance, you know, and some of those times where it occurred is, I mean, I was looking after too many people, looking after my family, my community, my work, and I just really forgot to put my oxygen mask on. But, you know, the one thing that I did is I always sought support, but it's an ongoing journey for me. I think I would say that the pandemic was particularly hard for me. I'm an extrovert, as you know, and being isolated, like, really negatively impacted me. But now I do a number of different things as we, you know, I've come out of it. And there are some things that I'm getting back to that are super important to me. You know, one of them would be to exercise and try to eat well while, you know, it's always a work in progress.

Connecting with my Achilles, Akil Jen. That is my Achilles.

Yeah, it's a little bit. It's hard. And for me, it's more around just the routine. It's something that I always have to work on connecting with people and especially outside of work because I'm in the people business. I'm always with people, but in a different context, which I lost, you know, during the pandemic is very important. I think serving my community for me has always been front and center, and that's the reason why I serve on those boards. I find that, you know, when I give, I get more back. It's just as simple as that. It fills my soul in so many different ways. I do seek advice. I have a therapist. I see him very regularly. I consult. I'm not afraid of telling everybody that I have people in my life who might pay in order to help me. I try to be better to people around me and especially with my family, because I haven't always been. And I try to take moments during the day to be grateful for all the one, you know, wonderful things that I have in my life. So I definitely don't have all the answers, Ashish. I wish I did, but I'm sharing those with you with most humility, obviously, so. And I would have to say balance is different for everyone. And, you know, it's one's requirement for balance. You know, like, it will be definitely challenged over time, it will change. But the one constant is that someone's values, and the best way to stay in balance is to make sure that those values drive our actions every day and not fall out of whack with those values.

So, Jen, if I had to give you a rating around the nine hardwired for Happiness practices that I researched and I wrote about in my book that allow us to truly operate at our best. You would be, on an eight of nine, literally ticked off almost every practice. In fact, even probably all nine. But like, you know, they're all around, like purpose, right? Having meaning. You talked about serving your community, you know, gratitude. You talked about taking grateful moments. You didn't mention mindfulness, but I am pretty sure you are mindful and you practice meditation. You just didn't mention it. I'm sure you do. You wouldn't have the presence without it.

If you want. If you want like one. Actually, it's too bad that I forgot it because it is so, so, so important. Anybody who knows me, they know that I do not go to bed without listening to music. And that's when I meditate. And I like I have my mindful moments. Sometimes I will do it during the day too, in between meetings. Whatever is your thing, right? Like so.

Right. Exactly.

That I do get this Apple notification that I spend too much time and I should turn down my headphones once in a while because it's going to impact my hearing, which is a little bit troublesome. But yes, mindfulness is very important. Find a way to do it. I mean, I do yoga, but I would say music. Listening to music for me is one of my number one ways to just simmer down and kind of get back into my good space.

Well, thank you, my friend. This was such an amazing conversation. I am so grateful for our friendship and all the collaboration that we get a chance to do together. So thank you. Take care.

Thank you and continue to do all the awesome work that you're doing. Ashish and I look forward to our future collaboration on many things. Thank you.

Take care. Bye. That wraps up another episode of the Happiness Squad podcast. We hope you found the insights actionable to enhance your journey towards happiness and fill your life with more joy, health, love and meaning. Please consider leaving us. Review and share the podcast with anyone in your professional or personal life who you feel will benefit from some of these very insights. It's a really simple way to extend support and spread positivity. Take care and remember, happiness is a choice that's available to you moment to moment in the here and now. Take care and see you next week.