Xena, Warrior Advisor

The best indicator for self awareness, at least what I have found and observed and works for me. It's really understanding when to say no and when to say yes and being able to emotionally regulate right throughout the day. So it's like, you know, when you wake up, okay, how am I feeling? Did I get a good night's sleep? It all starts with that sleep routine, right? So then you wake up in the morning, you have your, your things you do as an executive, as an active duty military member, as a parent, you know, we wear all these hats, we have all these roles in life and it's really knowing, okay, does that align with my value system and am I getting in the self care I need for today? Am I working out? Am I getting in nature? Am I doing things that align with my values and my mindset? You know, and that could be like, is it growth oriented? Is it aligned? And does it look like.

Hey there friends. Welcome to Happiness Squad. This is the podcast dedicated to helping you unlock your full potential by mastering the art and science of happiness. We bring on the best leading experts on these topics to help you unlock your true potential and live with more joy, health, love and meaning in your life. Your host is no other than a star combo of Ashish Kattari and Anil Ramjiani who are both on a mission to provide you with an unfair advantage to be the masters of your experience and leaders in your industry. Get ready to be moved, challenged and enlightened on this podcast. It may change your life. Thanks for being here and joining the squad.

Hey Happiness Squad, welcome back. Ashish and I are excited to be with you. I'm incredibly grateful for our armed service members and I've wondered how do they embrace practices that strengthen both their mind and body. It's incredibly important how they look after their own well being as well as how they flourish, knowing the amount of stress anxiety they face as they risk their lives for our country. There are many parallels that those of us in the corporate and professional sector who give their lives for their company and can benefit by exploring this. This key practice is our own self awareness, a vital indicator that plays a critical role as we monitor ourselves throughout our day. Ashish and I had the great fortune to discuss this in further detail with our next guest, Captain Suzanne Lesko. Part of an elite group of women, the 1% of the 1% to rise the rank of captain in the US Navy. She's now retired and on a mission to be a catalyst for human progress. When she introduced herself, she told me she goes by Xena the Warrior Advisor and I loved it because it encapsulates her approach to leadership and building high performance teams. Suzanne is a proven tri sector leader with over 26 years of experience in the defense and national security industries. She's a combat veteran and a USNA graduate who now wants to teach leaders the mastery of optimal performance to help them perform with grace and ease in high pressure situations. She's a practitioner in transformational leadership and serves as a resiliency advisor for global leaders. As we spoke today, Suzanne truly spoke from the heart and drew upon her own practice of self awareness to live a healthier, more meaningful life. She stressed the importance of leading by example. And when we discussed how organizations can take advantage of their people, we highlighted how they lose sight of people rather than bringing light to people. Wait till you hear the stats that Ashish shared with us. When a company focuses on its people versus those that do. Not so much resonated with me in this conversation. But I have to say the highlight was when Suzanne and Ashish agreed that meaning is where the money is. How is that, you ask? Well, stay tuned till the end to find out. So let's get started. Please join Azish and I as we welcome Suzanne to the Happiness Squad. Hey Ashish. Hey Suzanne. How are you guys?

Doing well. How are you, Anil?

Doing great. And we are on live with Zena Warrior Advisor. I love that. That is just the coolest title. Xena 2.0, is that right?

That's correct.

We are so, so excited, Suzanne, to have you and share, you know, your wisdom, share all your rich experience from all your time, you know, in service. And now because this topic of happiness and flourishing is so critical, you know, in being able to unlock our best self. And who needs this, you know, so much more, right, than our servicemen and women, our veterans. So I'd love to just kick the conversation off with, you know, a question we always ask our guests, which is, what does happiness mean to you?

Well, Ashish, first off, to say, I'm just so grateful and honored to be here and Anil as well, it's just so great to talk about these things, especially within the veteran community. And having recently retired from the Navy after 26 plus years of service, it's exciting to be on this 2.0 chapter. And when I look back at like, what does happiness mean to me? To me, it's really about being grateful for the small things and having a real deep appreciation for all of life and including all the valleys and peaks, because it's not like you Just drink happiness juice and you'll be happy. Like, there is, you know, mechanisms in place and different things you can do to. To create that happiness in your life. And I think it's also about living your best life, doing the things you love with the people you love. And that includes things like your work, your family, travel, whatever, you know, whatever lights you up. And I'll have to say too, I have an amaz amazing golden retriever named Captain Morgan. And he's pretty cool. And he just seeing him be enjoy and happiness all the time, I can't help but be happy when I see him.

I love that. I love that. And it is so subjective, you know, but like, there's certain things that are just so universal about these elements. It's very, very subjective. You know, you talk about happiness as subjective well being, but this notion of, you know, connecting with others, you know, nature, it's so, so important, I think. I love, like, we have a dog, Ms. Puggles. And yeah, I mean, I walk into the room and you just light up, you know.

Yeah, absolutely.

Maybe, maybe too much of a share. But my, my wife actually does say my spirit animal is a golden retriever. So, you know.

That'S awesome. Yeah, it's. We, we've come to play. As we're together, people see us and they're like, oh, is that your sidekick? I'm like, yeah, it's my sidekick, you know, Captain Morgan. So. And he's just, you know, everyone wants to take his picture and they're like, he's just so sweet and he shows the ultimate unconditional love. Really, it's animals. I think those animals actually got us through a lot of the pandemic too. So a lot of people have pets now.

Yes, and hopefully are keeping them. Hopefully are keeping them. Right?

Absolutely.

Keeping them. And. Yeah. So, Suzanne, just reflecting on, you know, your journey, right, as a combat veteran and, you know, part of this elite group of women, you know, as you talk with the 1% of the 1% club who rose to the rank of captain in the US Navy, I mean, it's amazing. What were some of the practices, you know, that have allowed you to really flourish, that have allowed you to really unlock your full potential?

Such a great question, Ashish. And, you know, I look back at my career and as we all start off right, whether we're in industry and corporate or we are doing nonprofit work or we're in the military, I think when you join and you go out and say, yeah, I'm gonna, you know, I'm taking my Oath, where we're going out there, I start, you know, flight school or I'm going to surface warfare school or I'm going to Quantico for the Marines, you know, there's that buildup of four years, especially for folks like myself who went to the service academies and you know, like, I went to the Naval Academy. I have a lot of, you know, a lot of my friends are in the whole service academy tribe of West Point and Air Force, and we have a lot of, you know, fun together, especially because the Army Navy game is a big part of that in rivalry. But at the end of the day, that sportsmanship I think got me through those initial years because we, you know, 20 years ago, we weren't really into all this meditation, mental well being. It was like, suck it up, do it, you know. You know, it's gritty and yeah, you have moments like that, right, where you have to get through the, the element of combat or the element of, you know, leading teams in very high risk, diverse, asymmetrical environments. And I think what really got me through is physical fitness and nutrition meditation later on. Also having great mentors, not something that just came about when we graduated from the academy, but it was just something that I searched. I was always a seeker and so I would always meet incredible people on my tours or outside of that, in different adventures I did and they would give me some insights and I was like, okay, I'm going to apply that. Make an iteration, go to the next thing, go to the next thing. And so it was that iterative process. And then what really was a salient point in my career, I was working with U.S. special Operations and I was just tired. I was burned out. It was just a lot. It's, you're, you're at the tip of the spear all the time. There is no off button really. And it's addicting, right? You get used to it. You're like, yeah, this is awesome. And it was. And I, I have so many dear friends and teammates from that period that are in my life now. We're all doing great things. And I got introduced to transcendental meditation actually through a friend of mine I met in Baghdad. And it was during one of the continuing resolutions. Meaning, like, they shut down the government and it's always around September, October usually, and they shut down the government and they're like, okay, you know, when we get funding again, go back. So there were some days, like, if you weren't mission critical, you didn't have to be, you know, set in place for Duties. So a friend of mine from Baghdad was in New York City and she was working with the Transcendental Meditation center. And she said, suzanne, let's get you in. They're doing one this weekend, you know. And so I got in and it was wonderful. It really set me to know how to calibrate my nervous system. And then doing a lot of yoga, walks on the beach, grounding, and that kind of set the tone for. For something that was a great practice that I could do every day. So I would say that meditation and then most recently has been not only meditation, but sleep hygiene. And psychological hygiene, I think, is a new term that I'm using in this veteran renaissance that we're leading of new ways to show up in the world and have these systems in place so that we can be our best selves and reach out to people and monitor that. And I have my OURA ring. I love it. It really help monitor how much deep sleep I get, how much regular sleep I get, how much rem. And you can really tell if you don't have a good night's sleep, you're off the next day. It's like a ripple effect.

Absolutely. And so many. Just to recap, right. For our listeners, so many things packed in that response of yours. Right. One, this notion of mind and body connection, you know, all the practices that you mentioned around our body, nutrition, exercise, walking, yoga. Right. To make sure our physically we are at our best. But also, I think, I love what you said, you know, 20 years ago, this notion of mindfulness and mental. It was very physical oriented and obviously, you know, very service. But everybody's very service oriented. There's a bigger mission. Right. And a purpose. But this notion of what you built into your practice over the years, mindfulness, sleep, hygiene. I love mental and psychological hygiene. Right. The words that you actually talked about. And then we should get into what are some of the elements of that. But yeah, I mean, it's a little bit like, you know, we, we, we every day, you know, we wash, we shower, we clean our bodies, we brush our teeth. Right. To kind of clean our. Clean again, our breath and our teeth. But this notion of what is the habits, what are the routines by which we are actually focusing on our mental hygiene. How are we keeping our minds as sharp and clean and bright as our bodies.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

You know what? I'm really curious about that, Suzanne, if you.

Or.

Sorry. What I'm curious about is when I think about our armed forces and everything that you and they do on the day to day, whether it be training or in the field, maybe. Can you just help me understand how do you maybe advise them or say to them, hey look, you know, to be able to meditate, to be able to look after yourself. Granted they're not in circumstances that allow for that. How do you encourage them or how do you advise them on how they can embrace some of these habits in their own day to day?

Well, I think two parts Anil. First part is knowing your people, understanding them, seeing them on a day to day basis and knowing like if they're off one day, like you can tell, you're like, is everything okay? You know, everything going on well at home? You know, is there any issues you're running into to get good sleep last night? Because you can just tell like, you know, when you're with people how, how their modus operandi is. And then secondly, I think it's just being the example, you know, I live, breathe, sleep hygiene, psychological hygiene, mental wellness. I'm a big advocate of veg adventure therapy with other veterans. It's, it's one of my most joyful, fun times. And I also do a lot of artwork. I teach art classes and brave intuitive art, which actually I learned and did some of that in Denver earlier this year. And yeah, it's just, it's amazing, you know, and so it's really knowing your people, seeing them and then through conversation it's always like, you know, with my Navy SEAL tribe, they're like, hey, did you try this supplement out? Or what supplement worked here? Or you know, what are you seeing as results? So you're always looking at what is going to get you the most optimal result for where you are and longevity really. Because a lot of people retire and they're like, eh, I retired now what's next? You know, and for me I'm like, I'm creating a whole new 2.0 and this is an exciting adventure. Do you want to come join me? You know, the happiness squad is, you know, on a roll here. So I think, you know, going back to that and you know, just looking, watching your people and then without missing a beat, all of them come up to me. Ma', am, what are you doing for this? Can you tell me about your food routine? Can you tell me about your skincare routine? I mean it's just the list goes on and we go through all that and yeah, just like, you know, give them, hey, this is what I found, you know, works well for, you know, great sleep. Or did you get your aura ring or did you get outside today and Breathe some fresh air. When we were doing heavy, intense work at U.S. central Command, I used to like, take a break, let's do push ups in between in the office. You know, if we're on a major mission or have to monitor that, you know, aromatherapy, you know, anything to kind of shift the environment, to calm the nervous system down. Because we don't realize how much our sympathetic nervous system is really just tapped out, right? We got to. We got to get back to reality, gentlemen. And part of that is these practices so that we can be our best selves in with that is being in a parasympathetic state.

Yeah, you know, it's interesting. So we've done these studies where, you know, even executives, right, and most people don't even realize it. And this is, this is at the heart of, of my book, right? Where we say we've become hardwired for fear. We are in such a high state of continuous sympathetic activation, we are activated. We are running on adrenaline and cortisol that that's what our brains have actually gotten used to. And that's what. And we don't even realize how bad decisions we're making and what we're doing to our bodies, right? So when we did this with. And people are like, I don't know, what are you talking about? Like, yeah, but this is. I like it. Like this notion of I like it. And then you show the science behind how important parasympathetic nervous systems are for digesting, for resting, for recuperation, for healing. And then you say, oh my God, I didn't realize it. And for better decision making. And then you say, okay, so let's look at how you operate. And we have these HR remonitor studies that we can do. So you put that on and you say, just keep it for like two days. And they realize that 80% of their time, right, they're like in this crazy elevated state. The heart rate variability is like almost nothing. Like, right there has no coping built in. And it finally clicks for people to say, this is the reason you're stressed out. This is the reason you're getting burning out. It's not the stress is bad. It's just you have no coping right? Fire to fire. So no, it's. So I think it's amazing that you mention it. And I wonder if it's the same thing that happens, frankly, you know, when people transition, right, from active duty to civilian life or even when you come back from missions. I wonder how much of this is the brain is always looking to actually go back to what it's used to and we're looking to create that in our lives.

It's true, you get hyper alert and hypervigilant in these types of high risk and combat environments. And there's actually been studies like some people actually miss that. Right. Because everything's taken care of and you know exactly what your mission is for the day. Then you come home and to the homeland or wherever you go and it's setting up those systems in place to build that routine and that normal state and then to calm, to actually be very proactive and intentional about calming down your nervous system and the practices you need to have in place to get to that homeostasis.

Are you enjoying the show so far? Let me ask you a few questions before going back. Have you ever wondered why so many of us struggle with stress, anxiety and burnout and feel stuck in life? Heck, maybe you're going through this right now. Well, the reason for this lies in the evolutionary biology of our brains, which are hardwired for fear. It's part of the reason why our team named this podcast Happiness Squad. It serves as a reminder that happiness is what really matters and that we are in this together. And that is why we are so excited to share with you a resource to help you on your journey. One of our hosts, Ashish Guattari, launched a book Hardwired for Happiness and it is a number one Amazon bestseller. When you get access to this book, you will discover nine secular practices that can change your life and are backed by scientific evidence from psychology and neuroscience. Learn how you can integrate Hardwired for Happiness practices in every part of your life to unlock your best self regardless of how busy you are. Shift from knowing to doing to being with a range of journaling, meditation and group coaching exercises and so much more. Go to www.happinesssquad.combook to get access. Right now we also have bonuses on the page that you don't want to miss. Once again, www.happinesssquad.com book and now back to.

Talk to us a little bit about, you know, so to know that I'm triggered, to know that I am, that I know is self awareness. So talk to us a little bit about how you built your self awareness muscle and what advice would you have for listeners, you know, veterans, but also, you know, executives and others in professional organizations. How can we become more self aware of just the state that we are so change becomes possible?

Oh absolutely. So with that being said, Ashish, I think the best indicator for self awareness at least What I have found and observed and works for me, it's really understanding when to say no and when to say yes and being able to emotionally regulate right throughout the day. So it's like, you know, when you wake up, okay, how am I feeling? Did I get a good night's sleep? It all starts with that sleep routine, right? So then you wake up in the morning, you have your things you do as an executive, as an active duty military member, as a parent, we wear all these hats, we have all these roles in life and it's really knowing, okay, does that align with my value system and am I getting in the self care I need for today? Am I working out? Am I getting in nature? Am I doing things that align with my values and my mindset? You know, and that could be like, is it growth oriented? Is it aligned and does it look like that? And then able to set really strong boundaries around it Otherwise other person's agendas will always be yours. So you won't be able to say no or yes because you overcommitted. Right? One of my, One of my MOs is I want to always under promise and over deliver, right? If I can't do something, I'm not going to say ah, you know, or like, you know in LA where they say let's do lunch. No, it's like it's really about being intentional about your day and setting great boundaries, emotionally regulating and then having a great kind of inner circle that knows you very well and has seen you under duress and at your worst and can say, you know, am I thinking this right? Does this, does this resonate and am I being too hard on myself or you know, is it self sabotage or like how is that showing up in the world and how's it showing up in my life? And then through that you become more iterative and you become more self aware.

You're talking about this fundamentally being able to get to the balcony, right? Like constantly being able to see yourself from the balcony when you're on the dance floor, which most of us don't do, we just keep dancing, right?

You're going to share something, Anil.

No, no, I mean, I agree with you. I mean these are things that I think people struggle with. I think exactly to your point, Ashish, people want to keep dancing. They don't want to step off the dance floor, go get a bit of a helicopter view and really see where they're at. I mean, I know that we've got our devices like the aura device. I've got the whoop it makes you wonder, like, why can't we just kind of just pause, take a moment and almost just assess how we're feeling, whether we are getting the good sleep, whether we are actually setting those boundaries, whether we really are being intentional. I almost kind of maybe challenge our listeners out there to say, hey, how often do you take that moment to pause, be clear about your intentions, set those boundaries and be comfortable stepping off the dance floor. Because I think, you know, and I think we're going to talk about here shortly about organizations. I don't think people really feel supported to take that pause, to take that time, let alone in the armed forces.

Maybe in the corporate world.

Yeah. And it's this notion of check in, right. Danielle, what you're talking about is this notion of checking in, creating the space. And it can be so simple, right? As, you know, what if, you know, so what if people did just this, right. Every two hours, let's just take a minute, close our eyes, feel our feet and just take six breaths and just check in. I love this notion of you wake up and say, did I sleep well today? How am I feeling? You know, what is my state of nourishment and well being? Because it's from that and hence what do I need most right now.

Totally agree. It's like when you're driving, you'll constantly look at your fuel gauge, you know, how much, how much petrol do I have?

Right.

You're going to keep looking over and glancing over. We never take that moment to kind of glance in, kind of inside and go, okay, wait, how am I feeling? And you know, as this is something that you and I have spoken about, when I meditate, I find that the days I meditate are better when I'm actually taking that moment to pause. Because I feel like when I'm meditating that's the only time I'm taking to pause. I'm actually not. I'm be thinking about things and not having that moment to be in the present. Where days when I do take that minute to minute breath and reconnect, I find those are far better meditation sessions because I feel I'm able to be in the moment, be in the present and not feel like I have to chase my brain or pull my brain from, you know, tell it to slow down.

Absolutely. Or you might get a speeding ticket or not.

I tell you, if that were the case, I would have lost my license by now. And more, I'd be doing community service. I think just to kind of maybe find those parallels between the armed forces and what you've done, I think, what would you say are some of the biggest elements in organizations that you feel have actually led to more stress and anxiety? Because in my mind, I think, okay, what armed forces feel when they go in the field versus what I'm experiencing when I go into an office room or a meeting room. What do you find are some of the parallels between the two that maybe our listeners can maybe take comfort in or challenge their thinking on?

I think a great way to challenge your thinking. I know, Ashish, you share this a lot. We're so technology connected more than ever in the history of mankind, and we have this technology overload, and yet we're so disconnected. Right. We're like OS X models in a modern world. I think what happens is the focus so much is on profit and shareholders and all this that they forget about the person. The 360 of that whole person concept. Again, what I talked about earlier, checking in on your people, you know, through this pandemic, we're all virtual and work remotely or we come together. And that's good, you know, has its pros and cons, just like everything. But at the end of the day, you got to know your people. You got to see, oh, are they doing okay? And I think when we get so wrapped around the axle on that we lose sight. Sight of what just happened. Did I just go through five years and I missed, like, my child's, you know, walking or, you know, other things that happen. And it. And it does relate to other things, like oxidative stress and things on your body. You know, you'll have ailments. Things will start bothering you because of things that are on your mind or even subconsciously. You have no idea that it's really affecting you. And it's the way our world is structured, you know, in the sense of capitalism and in how we do things. And it's just the way it is sometimes. Right. So how do we work around that? How do we. How do we bring light sometimes to these places that, you know, can be stressful or maybe don't have the mechanisms in place to know. Okay, I just need to reset here. Regroup, and let's reframe and then go the next direction and pivot.

We miss the person, right? We miss the person. It's so true. Right. I think we get so anchored with trying to go after profits, revenue, customers, that we miss the person because it's the individuals that are key to achieving all of that. Yeah. As leaders, we just can't. In fact, we did this I looked at this research, Suzanne, right around flourishing. And the difference between people also think about this as either or, right? Like it's performance or health. And we did this research and I looked at the research done at Oxford and Warwick and what I found was those organizations that invest in flourishing, right, they show up as more engaged workplaces. They show up as places top employers to work for. The data is so clear. They have 2x higher stock market returns, almost 20% more profitability and productivity. They have 65%, can you believe it? Like 60, you know, much, much lower percentage attrition. How crazy is that, right? And they just do so much better, like much higher engagement, 65% more creativity. Amazing results. When people invest in flourishing. But we just don't, like, we just think about like no, let's just drive performance. And I think we're at this stage now where I don't think it is actually possible in the next couple of years because people have grit their weed teeth, grit their teeth through the last two, three years. People just don't have more to give. And that's why stress and anxiety burnout are so high. We've got to do it. And you know, I grew up, you know, Suzanne, for like 10, 20 years in a heavy, you know, like I did. I served a lot of clients that were into manufacturing, they had manufacturing assets. And it blows my mind, like it literally blows my mind. Imagine if you were a plant manager, right? Or like you have, you know, by the way, it's the same in, same with, you know, heavy equipment in, in, in the forces, right? If you've invested millions of dollars into an equipment, nobody would be okay accepting it's at operating at 40% efficiency because you haven't maintained it, you haven't kind of kept up with it, right? You haven't invested in it, you just bought it and you're just going to keep using it. But somehow when we think about our people, you know, we pay them a salary and we think hence that's the reason for them to be able to get their best output. And you have people who are stressed out and anxious, they're only giving 30, 40, 50% because that's what they can because they're not in a place, right from a well being point of view. But we don't with the same urgency actually focus on investing in them.

Suzanne, just on that, given both your backgrounds, right, Ashishu and mackenzie, and experiencing that with professionals that you used to deal with, Suzanne, yourself both in the military, but also in your own professional personal life, how do you, how do you, how do we break that? Like, how do we get people to acknowledge and recognize the value of people versus the overweighted importance on profit? Like what, what do we do? Like, how do we kind of snap people out of that?

Well, I think like I shared Anil, it's leading by example. You know, if you're the leader of the organization, it should showing that it's doing it. All the high performance teams I've worked with at organizations, the leaders are out there working out, you know, they're doing their green drinks or whatever they do for their nutrition and they're big on sleep. You know, they're big on getting your rest, like be rest. And it's not like a bad thing. Oh my gosh. I rested, I took a nap for 20 minutes. You know, whatever it takes to be the best version of yourself. And leading an organization like that I think is really where, where the money hits the road. Right. Because it's not P and L, profit, loss, it's. It's people. Right. People and love. So I think when you have those forces together, then anything's possible.

Yeah. And, and you know, and also I think the big one for me, Suzanne, I think you relate to this because it's tied to, you know, some conversations we were having. It's also, I think one of the biggest things that when I actually compare, right. All of our servicemen and women who are actually there is a very clear meaning, purpose mission that allows them to get through so much. I'm willing to take the bullet for my country. I know what this is for. It's defending something, it's meaning for something. When I think about, it's very, very clear. That's a big part of it. You know, when I think about the same which allows them to be, you know, get through so much. And when I think about the corporate world, you know, 30% data from Gallup, 30% of people are engaged. For most people, they don't find meaning in what they're doing. And so it just becomes incredibly hard. So. Right. So in addition to well being practices, you know, around mind and body, I think this, this reason why I'm showing up, I'm going to engage and I'm going to deal with all the complexities and the operating environment has gotten incredibly complex and there's a lot that needs to get done. I think there is a real value in helping take leaders who can help find meaning, help connect meaning for what we are asking our teams to do with their day to day.

Absolutely. I think Meaning is where the money is, right? And it goes back. Sheesh. To your. To your book where you talk about the hero's journey and Joseph Campbell and for leaders to understand their own journey. I've been on multiple heroes journeys, and it's like, okay, the departure, right? Like the hero leaves their familiar world behind. And that could be, you know, going off to college or going to boot camp or, you know, starting internship. And then it's like the initiation where that hero learns to navigate this unfamiliar world. You don't know what you're going to encounter, right? And then at the end, it's like full circle, the return where they return, they come back to their familiar world of taking all those things and lessons learned and then, you know, being able to pay it forward for others through those lessons. But a lot of times people get stuck in that cycle or it's fear that leads them, that they're not willing to try new things. And I've gleaned a lot of insights just from global experiences and travel because you learn other cultures and you're not in your own little bubble and you kind of see how people interact and what they do. And at the end of the day, they all want to be joyful and happy.

I love what he said. Meaning is where the money is. I think I need to, like, I need to like, capture that, right?

Maybe that's the tagline.

Yeah.

Meaning is where the money is. But you know, it is so true. I think one of the things we've just got to break is the dichotomy, right? Like, you know, I talk about this in my books, is that, right? Wealth, health, love, meaning this dashboard. And we've just got to stop, like, differentiating, you know, even wealth and meaning, right? W and M, they're like upside down. But oftentimes people think about accumulating wealth. And if whether it has meaning or not, it doesn't matter. I'm going to accumulate wealth and find meaning outside my work. And I'm like, why? And then there are others who said, I'm going to pursue meaning. And they're also miserable because they're like, not earning enough money to kind of provide the day to day that they want to for their families and themselves. And you know, I always encourage people to say, look, why think about wealth and meaning? What about you want to actually create wealth through meaning?

Absolutely.

Pursue something that you are deeply passionate and called to do. Because you know what, there are so many people in the world right now, there's so many crisis that with conscious capitalism we can solve. So let's dedicate our life towards solving something. And oh, by the way, as we make money through that, the enterprise makes money through that, it allows us to continue investing. Just scale.

Absolutely.

I just on that Ashish, I and Suzanne, I know a couple people who are in transition and have got new roles, right. And each of them have said like, oh, so you know, what's the package? Like, oh, package is great, salary's great, I got equity in the business and you know, and I ask them like, what about wellness? You know, where's the investment in wellness? Like you get time off, do you get, do you get, you know, investment to do, you know, courses, self development courses. And to be honest, they kind of look at me with a blank stare and it blows my mind. Because you think about. Exactly you just said Ashish, like to actually, you know, find, you know, you know, the meaning is where the money is. It's like, you know, you won't be able to spend the money if you're unwell, if you're unhealthy, if you're stressed, if you're burnt out. Like it's almost like the two go together. You can't separate them and think it's mutually exclusive.

Yeah, they're inextricably linked completely.

But yet mentally we find back to fear. Like, I need to make sure I put food on the table and roof overhead and therefore I need enough money to cover me for that, for my kids, for education. But you know, your health and your well being is equally as important. Otherwise you're not going to be around to actually enjoy, experience the true meaning of life or of your life. I just want to ask you then, Suzanne, just on the back of that, like, were there any practices from Hardware for happiness that jumped out at you to you that could make a difference both for you, for our listeners, from when you were in the service to where you are as a veteran now?

Yeah, I think Ashish does a great job, you know, showing the disciplines and then it's like the lotus flower of the various areas. But I think the biggest thing is gratitude and meditation and mindfulness and you know, every day it's what am I grateful for? It pulls me into that very compassionate, grateful state and I handle things better as they come my way and stay. Instead of saying, I can't believe this just happened, I say, what is, what is the lesson I'm supposed to learn from this that just happened and it's teaching me composure or, you know, I'm not my emotions, I'm Just looking at them, whether you know, you get angry or whatever emotion comes up, anxiety, you know, anger could be another and it's being able to really take a step back, breathe and reassess it and doing those micro, micro check ins, micro rituals. Ashish, like you shared every two hours. Where am I? How am I feeling? What do I need to do to raise my, my, my energy right now?

A self awareness break, A self compassion break. Just, just checking in, right? How are things going? Don't be on autopilot. Just like at the end of the day I'm gonna like, ah, I'm tired. Like no, you were tired eight hours before, buddy. Like you just did, like you just pushed through, you know, you just pushed through, right. So you know, as we bring to wrap this podcast, this amazing conversation, there's so many nuggets you've shared here. I'm going to ask you for three more. So if looking where you are now, right, what advice tips, top three tips that you would have, what advice you would have for your younger self?

I would say for my younger self, like right when I was entering the service, I would just say be gentle. Like be gentle, you don't have to go, you know, so, so fast and speed and strong all the time. Like be gentle, you know, reassess yourself. Goes back to self awareness. I would also say number two, don't sweat the small stuff because at the end of the day, Ashish and Aneel, it's really small stuff, right? What really matters is the people we're with and our loved ones, whether they're family or family, right? But it's the people we love and spending time with them because all we really are in life is the dash, right? We're the dash. We know two things in life. We're going to pay taxes and we're going to die. So it's like don't sweat the small stuff because we are just that little dash. And lastly, I would say be fully self expressed. I know a lot of times in the military and other environments you feel, oh, I can't be as, you know, a feminine, you know, we have to wear our hair a certain way or wear this uniform. And it's so wonderful to see now. It makes my heart happy to see so many women in service being who they are and being able to be fully self expressed and you know, whatever, you know, whether they're into art or they're stylish or you know, whatever it is that they can just be themselves and be self expressed and not be.

Suppressed Beautiful, beautiful self expression. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. It ties into, you know, it truly also by the way, ties into one of the top five regrets of the dying. Right. This book written by Ronnie Ware, you know, which was, you know, one of the big regrets was I wish I had the courage to express my feelings. I had the courage to live a life true to myself.

Yeah.

Absolutely not what others expect of me. Right. Like, don't try and fit in. Just lean into the fact that you belong.

Yeah. At the end of the day, your life is not up for committee vote. Right.

Oh, people need to be reminded that self included.

Yeah.

It's like you don't need a pity party. You don't need people to like, you know, you know, rally on you with negative. You need that cheerleader. You need those. Be your own and be cheerleader to others. I really love what you just said there though. As you like live a life true to yourself that is incredibly powerful.

Yeah. Don't try and fit in. Right. That always leads to like we think, you know, but that's how we are wired. That's how we're wired. We're wired for social connection because in, you know, 20,000 years ago, if I lost connection with my group, I didn't survive.

Right.

And we still keep looking for that. But unfortunately I think the balance tips to we forget our self worth and focus too much on trying to get approval and fit in with others. Right. And create our own suffering. Because nobody likes to live a long coherent life. Look, this was incredibly helpful, Suzanne. I was so blessed, so blessed to have you.

Likewise.

And yeah, wish you, wish you, wish you the best for the holidays. Hope you're doing something fun to recharge. I know you will be doing a lot to help others. So like, thank you. Have an amazing holidays.

You as well.

And as we end just from my side, just again, thank you Suzanne, for everything you shared, for everything you and our service members do for our country. It's just amazing. And again, I just think it's really important for folks to know that you guys do a lot and the fact that you've shared with us today that that switch. I think I'm hoping others in your peer group and others that have listened can follow in the same path. So thank you.

Thank you so much. I'm very grateful.

Take care.

Bye bye.

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