Adapting to the New Normal in Retail | Heather Orscheln, Founder of Revel Boutique

Welcome to episode number 260.

And we're talking about the pivot you guys, through Covid. Get ready to meet my friend Heather from Revell Boutique.

Let's talk about your business strategy and the juicy details of what actually works, from mainstream fashion to fashion on Main street and the entire ecosystem behind it. How do we scale your company and do it with the balance and the happiness that we all seek? Let's hear from those insiders, experts, and.

Strategists that actually make it happen.

I'm your host, Ashley Alderson from the Boutique Hub, and I can't wait to chat, As I'm sure you guys can remember.

The minute that it felt like the world became aware of the COVID 19 pandemic, everyone kind of had their own different reaction to, I think, the shock and awe and fear. Fear and then oncoming grief that I feel like followed that pandemic and what it meant for small businesses. And as this started to happen immediately within the Boutique Hub, I started to talk about mindset because I could quickly see two sides of the fence that were taking place. There was the fear mindset of, oh, my gosh, this is going to kill my business and so many small businesses. And then there was the pivot mindset of what do I need to do now to survive? And it's amazing to me to hear the stories of how Boudojudi boutiques started to immediately pivot as they started to adopt a new mindset into growing their business through the pandemic. So today I want to share with you one of those stories. My friend Heather Orchlin has a boutique that I love, Revel Boutique, and I've shopped with her myself, and I love her story of how she got busy serving her customers in a whole new way that has opened up new opportunity and revenue streams and a new way to look at her business. You know, I've said this, if not one time, a million times, and I've heard many other experts say the same, and that is that this is not happening to you, but it's happening for you. You know, so many times we get stuck in our ways, and we don't see the opportunity for change that's before us. It's, I'll get to it when or I'm too busy, or how would I ever take time away from what I'm doing now to implement something brand new? Well, with the whole world flipped on its head, now is the time to take a new opportunity. So get ready to meet my friend Heather and hear her story. And guys, wherever you're at in this journey, I know there's opportunity in it for you.

All right, guys, it's time for a Covid conversation. How cheesy did that just sound? I think that's what the topic of today is going to be all about. Heather, I am so happy to have you on the show. If anyone has not met Heather Orson yet, the owner and founder of Revel Boutique, Carthage, Missouri, we're going to talk about your brick and mortar, your online business, but just how the pandemic that we've all survived has really changed your business. Heather, welcome to the show.

Thank you. I'm so excited and really just honored to be asked to chat. So thanks.

I've loved keeping up with you through the boutique hub, through social media, and just seeing how you've evolved. We've had many, like, private messages to one another about, oh my gosh, I tried this and it's working. And my online's taking off. And I just am so enamored by what you're doing and the really cool ways you're collaborating. So I'm excited to bring all that to everyone today. But to set the stage, like, let's, you know, back way up. Talk to me first about how you got started in the boutique business and where Revel came from.

Okay. Well, Rebel has had many names and really I'm definitely a journey of evolving as far as starting small and growing. Just a little background on me. I'm 48, so getting close to the big 50. And I was a school teacher originally, so I taught school for about 10 years and I had really. I'm a miracle that I'm here. I had like a life threatening brain tumor in 2007 and had like a two year recovery. And thanks to MD Anderson, which I always give them a shout out, they saved my life. Very. My children then were 5, 7, and 10. And now my kids are 18, 21 and 23. So. So. But basically once I was, well, I was kind of trying to decide. I've always been one of those people that can't just stay home. I have to work. I love, you know, I had as much passion about teaching as I do about the boutique. That's just my personality. So whenever I was looking for something to do. Funny thing is the girls that I played Bunko with kind of came up with my job. I started out as ebay girl. That was my first name. And I just started. Yeah, I just started. They were like, you should sell our stuff. That's what you're good at and I was like, okay. And that would have been back in like 2009, kind of when ebay was newer and Etsy and Pinterest and kind of on the verge of all those new things. And I started turning people's clutter into cash. So I was consignment picking things up, selling your things for you. And it just really took off from my email blast of friends. Within a year I was selling for over 350 different people. So it definitely outgrew the guest room in my house. And I had little high school girls. I have one current employee now she is an adult and still works two Saturdays a month for me. And she started out as a high school student taking pictures of clothes in the guest bedroom at my house. And she still works for me. So.

Oh, those are the best stories.

I know she has been through every stage because I started out of my house, then I needed somewhere but I was scared to open a store. So I talked to like a flea market here and they agreed to let me try something. And I rented booth space and turned it into a makeshift boutique inside a flea market. That was my first so called storefront. It was just crazy. I mean, I have literally, I'm kind of the Dave Ramsey of boutiques because I've just dipped my toe in and it just keeps getting deeper and deeper, I guess you could say so. But having that patience and just building, you know, using what you have and building relationships and just keep expanding is amazing how it can turn into, you know. Now I'm a boutique called Revel. I sell probably 20 national brands. I'm like the Patagonia dealer for my area. Chocos Hydro Flask. A lot of national brands that are really hard to get. And when you think about, I started out selling your used Miss me jeans out of my bedroom.

So.

So I mean, it's just crazy that I've turned into this because in 2012 I opened my first store and I was still consignment, but I named it Repurpose Boutique and used the word repurpose. And that's kind of when everyone was starting to chalk paint and Pinterest. And so I took what was popular and went with that. And I was one of the first people to have artisan items and really to even use that word in our area. So I searched on Etsy and found people within a 60 mile radius that made awesome cool things that they were trying to sell and I invited them to be a part of my store. So we've always sold lots of artisan Type items. We do them on consignment still. We have people who have their items in our store for sale, and those are all handmade, so that's kind of a cool concept. That's different. Different also. And then a year ago, we decided. It was a year ago March, we needed to rebrand ourselves. And that was around the time we joined the Hub. We joined the Hub about a year and a half ago. And about a year ago, we changed our name because I don't sell anything used anymore, and my name didn't make sense, and people would message us and be like, is your Patagonia used? Why is it called Repurpose? And so we did a contest. We asked our customers to help us come up with a name, and a girl from out of town came up with the name Revel. And we were trying to keep our R and our B logo, and we fell in love with the word and the definition and the. You know, revel in what you love and revel in the outdoors and revel in life. Revel in your family. So it. I mean, the more we talked about it, I just love the word. I'm like, revel in what's happening. That's kind of how I am. And being a person that has almost lost your life before, you really have a different mentality when you go through a fire like that. So I do revel in what I do, like, every day, and I'm so passionate about it, and so that's kind of where I've come from. Many steps to my business now. We are a boutique. We have two locations. We have an app, we have a website. We have text alerts. We. We do a little bit of everything that you guys promote and suggest we do. We've just kind of dipped our toe in everything. I'm always willing to try anything once and go all in. So I think that does pay off when you're willing to take a chance, you know, and.

Yeah.

Yeah. So that's a little bit about who we are.

I love. I want to back all the way up to the beginning and just, like, from one survivor to the next, congratulate you, because I think that gives you a badge of honor to wear the rest of your life that I don't think you really, truly understand how much that changes your complete outlook on life. Like, the complete joy and zest that you have. Having, like, thought about losing your life, you know, going through that painful process, man, I just. I think that's awesome. So congratulations to you, first of all.

Thank you. It's it is. I've always. My kids have old souls. Like, it does something to your. It's a good thing, though. I mean, anytime you go through. I've, you know, mentored a lot of people going through things, and people with brain tumors will give my number out, you know, to friends and people. And it. It's life changing, but it is in a good way. Like, I mean, it changes you for the better. So. Thank you.

Yeah, completely agree. I feel like something good comes from every bad situation if you choose to look for it, even in the C word, you know?

Yes, exactly. For sure.

The other. The other thing I think is so good about what you just shared is never compare your journey to someone else's, which you so clearly illustrate. Never compare your beginning to someone else's middle. Right. Look at how much you've evolved your business. I think that's so cool. I think about the ebay girl, right? And how much you clearly weren't scared of change and adaptation. And I think that speaks a lot to what we want to talk about today. Because I don't know what it is, if it's like fear of failure or, you know, how we compare ourselves to everyone else online, but I think sometimes people are just scared of pivoting and they're scared of saying, you know what, I started this thing, but now I'm going to change this thing into this other thing because they don't want people to think that they failed at that first thing. But you just keep evolving and evolving in beautiful ways. What's your thoughts on that?

My thoughts are, I think you have to always remember one to keep looking at the stats or what the numbers tell you. You know what I mean? As far as, like, when I first opened, the numbers were my husband gave me $5,000 to open a whole store, and he wouldn't let me get a loan. So at that point, consignment made the most sense because I didn't have any buy in. There was no risk. I didn't need a lot of money. You know, I didn't make money unless things sold well. Then as I found success in that and I started to make money, I waited a year, and then I'm like, okay, now I have this little pot of money I've made. What can I do with it? And I was like, I want to buy some new things. So then I started just tiptoeing. I think patience is the biggest thing I've learned. You know, you and I know people get excited, but you can't just open a Building and buy a bunch of stuff and assume that everyone's gonna pull up and shop like you. You know, I started so small, and I just kept adding to it and really looking at what do people want? And I know as my consignment, you could just see it happening in front of your eyes. Like, people, the girls here that work for me, they refer to me as a good picker. They're like, heather is a good picker. She's good at picking what people want. I mean, and that sounds funny, but that's really what it's about, is knowing what people want to buy, you know, knowing they like a good deal. That if you can do hip and trendy for less, you can always be on top of the trends, but feel like people feel like you're giving them a good deal for their money, which I've always prided myself on that. And then I just kept adding to it. Like, I would look, and I'm like, I didn't want to quit selling used things, but the numbers told me it was time to quit. Because when I would look at what was selling, it was the new stuff. And the more successful I got, the more I could afford to put new merchandise in the store versus just consignment. And my parents were like, heather, look, everybody likes what you buy. It just makes sense. It's time to let go of the consignment. It doesn't mean it's a bad thing. You know, it's just. It's evolved. So I think, you know, and having that attitude of when people would call and they'd say, oh, well, shoot, I used to like to buy, you know, use jeans or whatever. And I still kept it very positive because I would say, oh, well, we're not doing that now. But, you know, Plato's Closet is. And I have a friend that owns this store and check out, you know, Facebook. People are selling their stuff now. So I kept it very positive and kept relation, you know, built relationships with people who were doing what I quit doing. You know what I mean? So I think I've always been a big, big believer in the higher road and staying positive and building relationships. And no one is your competition. And, you know, I've had four employees work for me and then open a boutique. And that's a whole nother podcast because it's, you know, a lot from it. But it's hard. You know, you're. It's your baby, so you're always like, oh, you're going to do that. But even with that, I found that, you know, when you embrace those people, like my husband says, they're doing that, Heather, because they love you and they want to do what you taught them to do. You know, they're inspired by you. So it's hard. But, you know, there's plenty of business for like everybody. I mean, I've got more business than I can take care of right now. It's crazy. Oh, my God.

That's the true mindset of community over competition. And a lot of people are scared of that. I mean, there's a lot of negativity, or I would say more so fear around your employees leaving and starting a new business. Talk to me more about that and what that process was like. And are you. Do you collaborate a lot or like how you look at that? I know sometimes there's good and bad and indifferent all wrapped up in one.

And I'll be honest. The, you know, I said I have 18 girls and they're all very young that work for me. So I'm kind of like the mom boss. You know, I'm everybody's mom and I give advice even when they don't want it sometimes. And it was hard. And I will say I have learned a lot. And, and I do think it's important. Even I raise my children with the same thing that I do. And I see it in everything is it takes a lot of confidence and especially in a woman, because women tend to be insecure to be able to say, you know, I didn't handle that exactly right. I would love to have a do over. This is what I wish I would have done. Can we do this again? Or, you know, I'm. And I am a person that does that. I'm very transparent. I tell my kids, hey, that wasn't my best parenting moment. I'm sorry, I was stressed out. This wasn't a good day, you know, that kind of thing. And I have great relationships with my children because they know I'm real and they see I'm real and they know that I don't have unreasonable expectations because none of us are perfect. I do that with my employees. Yeah. Times. You know, this is a busy, high pressured, fast paced career. So there are stressful days. There are days I'm going to snip at you or this is going to happen. And you know, I always come back and be like, I'm so sorry, guys, that was rough yesterday. Or I gift them, I'm very generous by nature, so I give them something. Or I'm like, hey, here's my little free t Shirt because I'm so sorry that things were stressful, you know, but admitting goes a long way with people. And back to the, you know, the very first girl that ever worked for me and then started her own hindsight. I didn't handle it the best way that I wish I would have because I was young and new to this. And, you know, I took it as. And on her part, she wasn't up and up with me about it. Like, she didn't tell me she was doing it, so I found out after the fact. So, you know, communication is so important and being honest and transparent with people, and that's one of the hardest things for people to do. So I just think what I did with her is I felt very threatened, I think, and betrayed. So it's funny, though, how it's been. Gosh, that's been five years ago now, but we have a good relationship now, and our families were friends. And out of that, because of the way I went to her and said, hey, I didn't handle that the best. Let's do this. Let's. After that, her younger sister ended up working for me. So, I mean, I mended that. We fixed that relationship. So, I mean, I. I pride myself on that in that, you know, I tried to be the adult in it and be the parent and the role model of, okay, I took that too personal. You know, what can I do to fix it? And then her younger sister worked for me about three years after that, and she just started a store this past year. So now she has a store open and we have, you know, I've offered to partner with her and do different things like that. So I think you just have to keep it, you know, positive and be very open and honest. Like I told her, I said, oh, I'm happy for you. I think that's great. I assume that we, you know, you're not going to carry the exact same. Same things I do. And as long as you keep that respect and you stay in your lane in mine, and, you know, hopefully we can partner and do things together and promote each other. So I think speaking your mind and being honest is the key. Because if you're not, you know, then it's like everyone's assuming what the other person's thinking, you know, and that happens. It's very hard. But I've also found that you don't have to just like, with the copying. And I know everyone deals with that with competition. You don't have to tell people that and you don't have to speak it or Talk about it. Your good customers know. They know who had that original idea. You don't have to. And you gain more respect from them when you don't say anything. You know, they know. They know. You were the first one to have an app and you were the first one to do this. And. And you don't have to tell anyone that. And really, I feel like, makes you look. You lose your respect when you do talk about it. Like, oh, my gosh, you know what I mean? Like, people should just come in your store and it should just be a fun atmosphere. It shouldn't be ever you talking about stuff like that.

So I, we need to talk about this for a second because I think every boutique owner, every boutique owner will go through this at some point. Every single one online, offline, doesn't matter. And even me at the Hub, like, I've been through this. Like, our ideas have been copied more times than I can even tell you about, and our content has been ripped off. I mean, everything. But you're right, like the second that you go start posting about it. And I've done that in full transparency, there's been times where I've been so ticked off that I'm like, oh, you know, so and so just ripped us off. And you, you want to. Like, that's your first human reaction, but you can't because it puts the egg on your face. Like, you just have to know the second that you spend time, energy on someone else, you're just giving them that energy. You're giving them the opportunity to keep growing and it makes you look terrible. So you're right. Your customers absolutely know who was there first. And no one can copy you, right? They copy the things you carry and the brand you build, but they cannot copy you, right?

And they can't copy your customer service and the way you make your people feel the way you are. And you know, and you have to remember too, in all honesty, like, even for example, we all, a lot of us in the same area, all belong to the Hub. So you know, when the great ideas are on there, like doing the 10% off for community involvement and things like that, you know, you're gonna see that. So, like, there was someone in the Hub who had. And she was like, hey, use my post. Use whatever. This is a great idea. And so we were like, I just posted, you know, show your receipt and get 10% off. When Covid first started, and I just tagged everybody that owned a boutiques and stores and small businesses around me, and I'm like, hey, join In. And I kind of feel like the more you do that, the more you gain a lot of respect. Because people are like, oh, well, Heather's not threatened by these other stores at all. And then I had other people, you know, some of those stores even reposted my exact graphic. And they're like, hey, we're doing this. And I'm like, that's great. Like, just everybody helped. I mean, I. People are going to shop. It doesn't have anything to do with what you're saying about someone. I mean, in the honest truth is there is no. I also think there is hardly any original idea anymore. I mean, I have to admit, when we're going to design a new T shirt, like we were going to make three Mother's Day T shirts and two grad T shirts, you'd be lying if you told me that the first place you don't go look is Pinterest for an idea. We all do it. Everybody gets on, hey, I'm looking for mom T shirt ideas. I'm going to scroll through Pinterest. Maybe we can find something and tweak it into our own. You're going to change it a little. But you get on Google, you get on Pinterest, you get on Etsy, you're looking for ideas. It's hard to own an idea anymore. So with that in mind, you need to really think before you go jump other people about supposedly taking your idea. Because is it really? Yeah, because everybody's. I mean, the ideas are all out there for everyone. You just kind of put your own personality on it. So, you know, true.

And that's what fashion is, too. Fashion is a trend that comes from a Runway that gets passed down through all the different cycles. So, I mean, you're really right.

Yeah. So I just.

Talk to me about.

Go ahead.

Well, I was going to say talk to me about carrying national brands. I want to kind of pivot a little bit and talk about you carry all these national brands that are zip code protected. And I know a lot of boutiques, when they get started, they have questions about how to do that or why to do that. But I truly think that's something that sets you apart. And you can only find when you go to market and build those relationships. Talk to me about how that's helped grow your brand.

Yes, I do think it helps grow your brand. I will say one of the least profitable things in my store are national brands. So I do want for the people who aren't familiar with it to explain the difference. Like the one thing I guess the pros and cons of national brands, the positives of selling some national brands are one protection. But it only protects you for brick and mortar. Because as far as web sales, you know, you can sell Patagonia, there's lots of companies that sell it website only and then I'm just protected for brick and mortar. So I mean once you get into the Internet, everyone's your competition basically. But as far as national brands, it's great for like Google searches and SEO. You know, it really helps me because I have those brands that get searched and tagged a lot. So that part has helped. And as far as social media and just the fact that people go to Google Patagonia and it's going to come up or they go to their website and we're listed as the dealer for the area. So we do get a lot of foot traffic and like we sit on a major highway. So the side of my building literally looks like a big billboard. I mean I just took advantage of it and made the side of the building with a big Patagonia and a Cavoo and a Chaco and a hydro flask. Those big brand names that, you know, their kids are riding in the backseat and go, oh mom, can we pull over and get a hydro flask? Or whatever.

So says every 10 year old in America.

Yeah, that's to my advantage. But the negative to national brands is with they carry with them a lot of rules and regulations. So like Patagonia for example, I am only allowed during the current season to run a discount or a sale on it two times during the season. So I have to be careful because like I obviously have to do like my Black Friday or my Small Business Saturday. So I kind of have to get creative. Like I can do give you a gift card, you know, which technically isn't putting it on sale. So I give you your 20% back in a gift card because I can't technically advertise that I put it on sale. So yeah, there's a lot of con, very strict suggested retail I guess is what you'd want to say. So you know, you lose a lot of your control where your things that you go buy at market that have 200% markup, you can play the game all day with those as far as price goes. But I'm very constricted. So it gets hard when I want to give out coupons or have things because we have to have a lot of exclusions always like you can't use this on artisan items or it doesn't Work on Patagonia and things like that. The other thing is there is not near the profit margin, you know, and people are surprised by that. They'll be like, oh, you sell Patagonia, I bet you make a bunch of money. I'm like, no, because the shipping alone, like Patagonia and Hydro Flask, it is strictly 100%. So if it costs you, if it sells for $99, it costs me exactly 45.50 to buy it. So you know, I pay exactly half and then I have to eat all the shipping on top of that. So you don't have near the margins. So I mean as far as keeping my doors open and making money, it's all the little things I buy at market or off fashion go that have, you know, 200, 300% markup. That's my gravy, not my national brands. So it's a good balance like I would suggest to everyone. Yes, it's great if you can get a couple national brands because they help you grow social media wise. They bring good foot traffic in, you know. But you've got to really watch the balance and you've got to watch your numbers. Like we did a big review this year in January and this is going to be the last summer we sell chocos and I'm not going to order them again. And that's purely because of numbers. It just doesn't make sense. I'm not making the money on them I need to. So, you know, I think you also. And that's where it doesn't mean I'm a failure, it just means everything runs its course. You know how it is. Like everybody wants a Buddha girl bracelet and then the next thing you know no one will want a Buddha girl bracelet. So you've got to, you've got to make sell them while they're hot and you don't reorder when they're not. So it's that teeter totter, you know, of what the trend is. So, so good.

Such a good explanation. Thank you for that. You're right. There's ups and there's downs. You and you have to know why you're ordering and how to use it to your advantage. You're smart by the marketing you're doing. And I think that's where some stores, they haven't figured that out yet. Like I have to market this in a new way to capitalize on that brand awareness and that's absolutely what makes the difference. I want to talk kind of in transition to that about, you know, we were Talking earlier about how great you are at collaborating. Right. You have such an eye. You're a good picker. Let's. Let's start here. You've done some great collaborations recently, which I don't want to spoil, you know, kind of what you've done recently. But talk to me about what happened with COVID Like, how did Covid first hit your business? And what, like, realizations did you make? And then how did you pivot to.

Where you're at right now? Okay, so when Covid happened, I'll be honest, my first reaction, because I am the mom boss, is I have all these girls, and they need their job. So. And I probably should be open, too, to, you know, I'm. I work very hard, and don't get me wrong, I love what I do, and I love making money. But I. My husband, I'm very blessed, has a very good job and supports our family pretty much with his job. So even though it's a hobby job and it's turned into a little empire, kind of my. I've never had a lot of outside stress as far as, like, I have to make a certain amount to pay, like, the house payment. So I am fortunate in that when Covid first happened, my main priority was were my employees, like, what can we do to make sure we can keep paying everyone? Because nobody really knew at first, like, we're gonna have to close. How long are we gonna be closed? So I was very proactive. Basically what I did, it was the first part of March when all this happened, and I immediately said, we need some cash flow. Like, I just wanted to make sure I got a big chunk of money so I could pay everyone. That was, like, my first big thing I was worried about. So we immediately did a St. Patrick's Day day, lucky day sale. So I grabbed the staff and I said, here's what we're going to do. This is what I thought of in the night. I said, we're going to have a lucky day sale. I said, we're just basically going to say, September 17th is your lucky day. We want to make sure we can pay our staff. So we are going to close both of our stores for the whole day. So we closed our brick and mortars that day, and we advertised that our entire website was full of 40% off for 24 hours, and that was your lucky day. So. And I said, we're going to use that 24 hours and plan, plan, plan what we're going to do during this situation. So we closed both stores. I had all my Employees come to my house, and we did $17,000 that day in orders. It was crazy. So we sent, like, our text alert out and our emails out and told everybody what was going on. And then we worked at my house, and we just started brainstorming. And this is where my biggest advice would be. Just because you're the boss doesn't mean you're the only one with ideas and that, you know, I think my girls that work for me all feel very comfortable, like, hey, I have an idea, or we could try this, or. Because even though we may not end up doing it, I think it's important how you react to them. Like, well, I like that, but what else can we do? Or, how can we take that and tweak it so that they feel safe and comfortable sharing their ideas? You know, young people are very intimidated. So, you know, a lot of times they'll. I think I'll just stand over here and tag my clothes and not say anything, you know, so you want it to be a comfortable space where they feel like they can share. So we just started brainstorming and we started, like I said, looking at what I said, get on your phones, look at other Instagrams. What are other stores doing? What are things we can do? And they came to my house that day with all kinds of ideas. Like, let's do kits. Let's do FaceTime styling. Let's do, you know, all these. Let's do live sales. Let's. So they had all these ideas. None of these were my ideas. They came up with them all, and we just evolved out of that. So when we were meeting, we kind of came out deciding, we're going to try a live sale. And then we were going to do. And the one thing that we tried that didn't take off is we were offering face FaceTime styling. So we made a video in my closet that day, like, showing, oh, I have these pants I can't wear. And you could FaceTime us, and we would find you things in the store. We didn't have one single person ever want to do that, so that was a flop. So. But, you know, we tried it. It didn't work. But I think people weren't comfortable with that. You know, it kind of makes people uncomfortable to feel like, oh, I'm going to FaceTime you, and it's just going to be you and me. Like, I think they were weirded out by that. So that was not a hit. And then we came up with the kits, like, the idea to have online student kits. And we made A basic kit and a bougie kit. That's what we called them. So those. Yeah, they were cute. And we just looked around the store. We were like, what do we have that we need to sell or get rid of? So we did, like, a T shirt, and the cheaper kit had, like, a mug and a coupon and stuff in it. And then the bougie kit had, like, a hydro flask for a student, and it was a nicer kit. And we basically took 20% off what was in the kit, threw in a gift card, you know, so that they would shop online. So we developed the kits, we made a TikTok account that day, and we just started brainstorming, like, things we could do. And we did our first live sale, and it was crazy. Crazy. So. And that's kind of. I mean, that's where we started, was just planning ideas. And I would say the live sales and the kits were our two big things that really took off right away and I think the coolest.

Go ahead.

Sorry.

Keep going. Go ahead. You're good.

I love that.

I think the live cells and the kits were our two big things that really took off right away and I think the coolest.

Go ahead. Sorry.

Keep going.

No, go ahead. You're good.

I. I love that. I think before.