Boutique Chat #032 | Pinterest Tips: Advanced Strategy + Promoted Pins | McKayla Amundsen

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If you are an addict of Pinterest like I am. Guys, get ready for an awesome episode. This one is for you. It's time for episode number 32 with our friends at Pinterest. Let's talk about your business strategy and the juicy details of what actually works. From mainstream fashion to fashion on Main street and the entire ecosystem behind it. How do we scale your company and do it with the balance and the happiness that we all seek? Let's hear from those inside insiders, experts, and strategists that actually make it happen. I'm your host, Ashley Alderson from the Boutique Hub, and I can't wait to chat. You know, I remember the days when you had to be invited to Facebook, and it kind of makes me feel old, if I'm being honest. But I also remember the days when you had to be invited to Pinterest. And honestly, it makes me feel pretty cool. Because if there's one platform that's always had my heart and had me as a bit of an addict, it's been Pinterest. Maybe it's because women's fashion is the number one most pinned category on Pinterest, or maybe it's all the recipes and then hopeless workout ideas that I continue to pin for myself again and again. But, you guys, one thing is definitely for certain. If you are not using Pinterest in your business, whether you're a boutique owner, a brand, or an insider in this industry, you're missing a huge opportunity because there's people like me out there every day pinning their hopes and dreams to all of their boards. So I couldn't be more excited than to introduce you today to Mikayla Ahmanson, a Pinterest partner who helps boutique owners grow the use of the Pinterest platform by use of organic strategy and promoted pins. Now, I first met Mikayla several months ago, actually, before the Boutique Summit, and then Mikayla joined us as a guest speaker at the Boutique Summit in Dallas. What happened after that was pretty exciting because Pinterest was so excited as a platform to get to meet so many boutique owners in person and to hear your needs and ideas and your questions on how to maximize your use of the platform, that we're collaborating much more together between the Boutique Hub and Pinterest. So a couple things to look forward to if you're a member of Retail Bootcamp, our highest level course at the Boutique Hub. Pinterest actually joined us a few weeks ago live to talk about strategies in depth on the platform. But if you're also a member of the Boutique Hub and our monthly, our monthly membership opportunity. Pinterest is now going to be offering specific trainings and downloads just for you as a part of our training library because they want to make sure that whether you're a boutique owner or wholesale brand and you're on the platform and you're in this industry that you're set up for success. So look forward to some really cool collaborations to come with Pinterest. But more than that, today I'm so excited that Mikayla's here because today we're going to go in depth on the podcast. Now, a lot of you have probably gotten started in Pinterest and we'll give a couple beginner tips in the show, but I want to go to the good stuff, the in depth stuff. And for those of you who have ventured into using Pinterest advertising, this is definitely the show to listen to because we're going to talk about how to measure success with Pinterest advertising, what your campaigns should look like, what types of pins and copy are really working best right now for boutique owners specifically. Guys, there is a lot to know and there's a lot to take notes on in this episode. So check out what is to come in this episode. Take your notes, but then go back to the training library to get more information on how to maximize your time on Pinterest. Should we get started? You guys, meet Mikayla. I can't wait to do this today.

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Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast.

This week we've got an episode that I've been so excited to bring to you because I know this is one.

Of the most commonly asked questions inside.

Of the Boutique Hub and also one of the strongest business tools that you guys have at your disposal to use to drive traffic to your site and increase conversions on a daily basis. So this week, please help me welcome Mikayla Ahmanson, the partner manager, or a partner manager with Pinterest and a great partner of the Boutique Hub. Many of you actually met Mikayla at the Boutique Summit. So Mikayla, thanks for joining us on the show today.

Thank you so much. I'm so excited to have this opportunity with you guys.

This has been such a cool partnership. I'm so glad that we were able to connect initially because, you know, just having you guys with us at the Boutique Summit, I think that was huge for that face to face connection.

And now, you know, we've been working.

On some pretty unique collaborations together, having you go live in our retail bootcamp, Facebook group and this podcast, but also some content that Pinterest is creating for the boutique community to host inside of our library at the Boutique Hub.

Yeah, absolutely. Completely agree. As far as like the partnership and the success we've seen on our site as well, like going to that summit was such an eye opener for us to see how many likes dedicated individuals there are that are pursuing this industry and really trying to really put all of their assets and time and energy in growing. So we're more than happy and so excited to be able to provide those trainings and partner with you to continue growing success for everyone.

I like it.

And you personally, you and I have kind of talked about this before the podcast and I think initially when we met, you have kind of a personal affinity with shopping boutiques. And boutiques are really kind of your number one client, aren't they, at Pinterest? So this is kind of been fun for you personally just to get to meet more stores in that way and shop too?

Absolutely. Yes. I definitely am drawn naturally to boutiques. In my last role with the company I was at prior to Pinterest, they basically made up the position for me that I was just this boutique expert and I just ran with it and then it carried over to to Pinterest. And so it's been amazing to actually get to partner with a community that lives and breathes boutiques and then I get to collaborate and share the knowledge that I've been able to gain with experience. So yes, definitely, personal love and appreciation to working with boutiques.

Well, I'm excited to dive more into.

That today and I want to start here.

So Pinterest as a whole, which everyone listening I'm sure is very familiar with Pinterest. But I'd love to talk about how women's fashion really is a cornerstone of the content that's on Pinterest. And then we can kind of get into the detail of what that looks like for boutiques and really how to maximize the platform. But can you start with kind of that big picture overview of where women's fashion lives on the platform and what stats you see happening?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I, and I hope that everyone listening is familiar with, with Pinterest as a user and if you're not, definitely like that's the place to start because once you understand it for yourself, it just clicks and it makes sense. But women's fashion specifically is our top category as far as the content that's on there that businesses are producing. The amount of engagement, whether it's search volume saves, just that discovery piece from our users, and then Being able to tie the two together and actually bringing style and inspiration from brands and companies big and small into the lives of our users. So it's, it's a very quick turnaround. You know, you can never have too many clothes like ever. So it's always like a, a demand for it. So being able to see the fast and long term benefit and success going through is definitely what is driving that success portion and makes it so fun and engaging to drive with.

I think you bring up a really good point because there's a big difference in what type of engagement takes place on Pinterest versus other social networks. So can you start there? Just kind of the difference in the networks and for those boutique owners and brands who are listening, who want to engage on the platform, you know, what is the key difference in how people use it and what do we need to know to get started?

Yeah, absolutely. So definitely looking at it from both the user standpoint and as a partner standpoint with running content on any platform. Facebook and Instagram definitely like driving the industry as far as everyone's familiar with them. They're amazing platforms. And if you really think about the way users are utilizing them, it's more of a past tense. You're posting photos of what you did the weekend before, the night before the vacation you already went on. Like it's, it's really showing and utilizing it to engage with your friends and your family and really that social aspect on things that have happened, which is amazing. It's so exciting in this day and age to be able to connect with our loved ones and family in that way and being able to have businesses partner on and find success and driving sales that way. Like it really is like so unique and just blows my mind of how really lucky we are to live in this day and agent and have that success. Then when you layer Pinterest on top of that, it's definitely not an and or thing. It should be layered and mushed together in your marketing strategy. And where Pinterest comes into place is that it's a planning strategy. So users are coming here long before they've decided whatever action they're trying to take, whether it's an outfit for date night or planning their wedding, the biggest day of their life, or you know, their dream home. Like it's, it's really that pre discovery phase that drives it and makes it so unique and gives businesses an incredible opportunity to get in front of that open mindset and working with this like shopping behavior and being able to actually influence decisions and drive Sales before they've even decided what they've wanted.

I think that's really important to note.

How different that is.

So say I'm a user and I want to buy. I hate saying user, but you know, say I'm a boutique shopper and I.

Want to buy shoes, right?

I could go to Facebook or Instagram and buy them instantly, but I can come to Pinterest and I can pin all these shoes that I love. As I narrow down, you know, this decision making process, I think one question I want to make sure we answer because I hear this a lot, especially with boutiques who are new to using Pinterest. They see that maybe it's more of a dreamer or a planner that's using it. So can you kind of hone in on the what's in it for me? Like why should boutiques use Pinterest if it's more of a long term strategy versus instant gratification? Can you talk about the success that you see with some of the clients you work with?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So hit on a couple topics there. As far as the like long term success, my answer always to that is how long do you want to be in business? You know, like the answer is always like there's no hopes of going out of business. So making sure that you're doing steps now to ensure that you're going to be successful instantly, you need to keep business going but then also setting yourself up for that long term growth and that long term success. And Pinterest is really the only platform currently that helps and actually is is designed to solve that problem and initiative. With that said, we have so many initiatives in place with trying to stay true to that because it's such an important unique situation and value prop that we have. But then also combining that with short term success because we do need, you know, especially when it's a smaller, you know, like limited marketing budgets and you really need to focus on getting that return sooner. And so there's lots of initiatives focusing on making sure that we are driving sales and finding success in a short term window and combining that with that long term picture. So a lot of the partners, like we mentioned, majority of my partners are with boutiques, but even in other verticals, partners that are utilizing that open mindset and understanding and leveling out their goal and really just their expectation of what success truly is, those are the ones that are really finding that long term success. Understanding that maybe a roas for an app attribution window is going to look a little bit different than other Platforms, but understanding why and how to look at the numbers to make sure that in the long run it actually is producing the top and the most successful and efficient ROI possible.

Perfect. That makes complete sense. So let's get into the nuts and bolts and I kind of want to cover two ends of this, the nuts and bolts of how to use Pinterest from the beginning. But then I know that you are an expert with promoted pins. So those who are more advanced, I want to make sure that you guys stick around and listen for more of the advanced strategies that we're going to get into as well. So kind of from the top down, let's talk about finding that ideal customer on Pinterest and just that general how do you set up your boards and how many pins a day? What is the getting started guide to using the platform?

Yeah, absolutely. So definitely I would say knowing who you hit it on the head, like knowing who your ideal customer is before you even touch your mouse, before you touch your keyboard, like, understand who are you trying to go after? And I think that in a lot of situations, some individuals go into it already knowing, like, I want my user to be, you know, a mom. I want her to have quick fashion. I want her to be looking for top style that's not going to be tugged and pulled on when she's trying to wrestle around with kids. Like, they have that in their mind and then that's what they set out for. Then you have others who may or may not have that picture in mind, but then they actually find that their target market was nothing that they had planned for and it steers their business in a completely different way and they go for it because it's successful. So whatever the case may be, truly understanding who your audience is, what lifestyle they have, what are they doing, what are they, like, what are their goals or their dreams, what are their struggles? Having that detailed of an understanding of who your market is and who your, your target customer, who she is, is going to help you in driving your organic and promoted success with Pinterest. So then taking that, then when we're rolling over, jumping on the platform, a lot of users actually don't know that we have business specific accounts. So definitely like refer to the resources that will be in the training library with the hub because it'll help you like make sure that you're, you're walking through those steps, but ensure that you have a business account. And then from there let's talk about profile specifically. So with your boards, it's always of course, important, like the Very minimum that you want to make sure that you're doing is having boards that make sense with the apparel and the items that you have on your website that you're selling. If you have tops, have a tops board, you have bottoms, have a bottoms board. If you're promoting summer fashion, have a summer fashion board and a fall fashion board. You know, make them relevant to the situation. And then when you've really dialed into who your target customer is and what her lifestyle and aspirations are, then you can start creating boards that, you know, fashion on the go, fashion for busy moms. You can get so specific in even taking on the flip side of maybe the activities that they're doing. So if you're going for more, like millennial focus, you could go after music festivals, you know, Coachella, outfit ideas. So really just making sure that your boards are resonating and driving inspiration and ideas and really giving her that discussion discovery. So that when she's coming to your board and she's looking through, like, the pins you have, it's not just, oh, no, I'm shopping for more clothes. I really shouldn't, but I'm going to do it anyway, you know, like that. It's. It's driving the idea and helping her find, like, oh, I do want on the go fashion. I do need an outfit for this event that I'm going to. And that actually speaks so much volume and really helps push sales and helps her feel that sense of accomplishment.

Can you share how the Pinterest, is it called the smart feed? Like, is there two different types of feeds right on Pinterest? How does the algorithm for those work? So that if I'm creating my boards and I'm creating the descriptions of my pins and pinning those, you know, in the correct places that I make sure the algorithm is picking up what I'm actually sharing?

Yeah. Yeah, great question. So really, it's coming down to on the organic side, your descriptions are everything. So you have your pin descriptions that you're going to take a look at, your board descriptions and the profile description. So you want to make sure that more or less these are SEO optimized. So making sure that there's, you know, fashion, apparel, you know, the different words that speak to your business and specific to the items that you're selling are in the description. So that when you're looking at the smart feed, it's. It doesn't know what's in your image. You know, technology's almost there, but right now we don't know, like, what that image is. Just from the algorithm, it can only pick up on words. So when it's tying the different, like keywords that you have in your descriptions and then it's learned the behaviors that users are taking and they've shown specific behaviors that are tying them to that keyword or that related interest, that's how we're matching them. And so you, if you are a Pinterest user, you'll see that if you pin or you show a lot of interest in a certain category, the next time you get on your home feed is going to be full of more inspirational pins related to what you were just looking at. So it's, it's helping you continuously discover and find all of the interests that you're continuously looking for or short term looking for.

Makes sense. Makes sense. How do I, as a user begin to grow followers on Pinterest? And does follower count really matter, or is it engagement that's most important? Or how do I gauge what my growth is, should be on the platform?

Yes, yes. So up until about six months ago, the answer for followers was really no. Like it didn't matter how many followers you had. We're not, we don't classify ourselves as a social platform, even though that's where we get, you know, like bucketed under. We more so saw ourselves as a visual platform, a visual search platform. And so now we've actually done a new initiative where we have a followers tab in the interface. So when you're looking at it from desktop or your phone, there's a specific tab that you can go to and see all of the content that the people you're following have shared that changes everything. So now going forward, followers matter and it's going to be a super easy and really beneficial way and helpful resource for pinners to be able to see the content from the people that they've already requested to follow. So in order to really boost those followers, it's really just consistent consistency and staying relevant on the platform. This kind of ties into another point that I, I wanted to hit on as far as the frequency that you should be pinning. So the algorithm will always prefer consistency over just mass amounts of quantity. And to elaborate on that, if you have a hundred pins in a week to pin, instead of doing them all on Monday, do 20 on Monday and you know, 20 every day through the business day to get to a hundred or break it up and do, you know, 10, 15, disperse it so that you're doing smaller amounts on a daily basis instead of just a giant amount on one basis. That way you're able to engage with those who are following you and then driving more new followers while you're staying more consistent throughout the week instead of just one launching day.

So there's scheduling apps that you can.

Use to do that, or do you.

Think, Will Pinterest ever have its own scheduled button to help you schedule those ahead of time?

That is a great question. It has been discussed. Definitely. And really, our engineer and product team, truthfully, they have so many amazing things like, on the docket, whether they're working on them or they're like, in the brainstorming phase, that it's hard to say that that's going to come sooner or later because there's so many, like, valuable ideas and flow and processes coming through. So now I can't speak to Pinterest having our own scheduler. However, there are a number of third parties that aren't necessarily endorsed with Pinterest. But you and I have talked about Tailwind. They I've heard really great things from all of my partners that have used them as far as being able to schedule at the most relevant time and really taking time out of giving yourself time back in your day. So letting tell when to do in 10 minutes what would have normally taken you 10 hours of your week. So definitely, if you have the resources to get a scheduler from a third party, absolutely. Like, save yourself that time and delegate it elsewhere.

I was totally putting you on the spot there. I was hoping, like, we would hear it here first. Scheduling is coming to Pinterest, like, all the exciting, nerdy marketing things that we.

Would get so jazzed up over. It's kind of funny because I definitely am always, like, the first to see things probably before I should because I'm so excited. So if I knew, you would have had it.

Perfect.

Oh, my gosh.

Hey, let's talk about as we're talking about growing followers. I know Pinterest is a little bit different in terms of giveaways to grow followers, and that's something that we do on a lot of other platforms. So is that something you kind of speak to, like, what those terms are in terms of giveaways, what's allowed, not allowed, or best practices?

Yeah. So definitely. I work with, like, we've mentioned a number of boutiques and honestly, I've never worked, I've never encouraged them to do a giveaway just because the restrictions that we have that I'll go over in just a second are kind of are counterproductive to what you're trying to accomplish during a giveaway. I know that if you're doing on the organic side, there's a lot more that you can get away with. But as far as a promoted giveaway, that's where you're going through like marketplace quality. And a lot of the times the your pins just won't get approved in the first place. So what to think about when you're, if you're interested in pursuing a giveaway is that we don't encourage any kind of pin or text or any initiative to drive unnatural behaviors. So if it says, you know, save this to your board and go follow these three people for a chance to, you know, win this giveaway, that's not natural. That's, that's not something they would have naturally be a natural behavior that they would have demonstrated or a natural mindset. And therefore it's not a good representation of the followers that you're getting truly from organic initiatives and really the best valued customers, if that makes sense. Yes. So that's really where it comes from as far as us not allowing it on the platform is that we just don't want to have any kind of unnatural behaviors being driven on the platform. Perfect.

So kind of along I guess the same lines of terms and conditions and things that are happening on the platform. Let's talk briefly about like legal issues and copyrights and trademarks, which I'm sure is a huge topic inside of Pinterest. And you know, from the boutique perspective, let's say, you know, we work with a number of, you know, graphic tee brands or apparel brands or boutiques that have pinned their things to Pinterest. Someone's come to the platform and gotten this great idea, I'm going to copy that or I'm going to take the picture and use it to market my own business. But then there's got to be a stop put to it.

Right.

Can you talk about what that looks like inside of Pinterest? Like how you guys handle some of the complexities of those copyright agreements?

Yeah, absolutely. So we completely have our partners back. So when it comes to making sure that, you know, their hard efforts and their ideas and inspirations stay true to them. So we definitely do not tolerate any kind of copywriting, you know, using other individuals images. That's like the main one is when, like what exactly what you just mentioned, they're, they're taking someone's image, changing the URL, driving it to their own page and then coming up with maybe a knockoff or different version of the product. So, so in the event of that happening, the user or partner who is seeing it done with their pins, has to report it. Once it reports, they, they do get like a, an easy green line at first and they just like contact them, make sure they have a warning. Because in a lot of cases it could, you know, we don't want to jump to conclusions. It could have been some freak accident. However, if there's a certain number I'm in that number, it actually isn't released because they don't want it to just be out. So people are avoiding it. But if a number of strikes happen, then they can actually get penalized from the platform. And we've had a number of people who have, they've been shut down and not able to be on the Pinterest platform organic or promoted because of those situations.

Ah, that totally makes sense. That's good to know. I think that eases a lot of people's minds.

So super helpful. Yeah, absolutely.

A lot of our stores who have, we've got a lot of brick and mortar boutiques that we work with at the Boutique Hub, but we have a lot that are selling online as well and most through Shopify. Can you talk about online selling with an E commerce platform and how some of those integrations work on Pinterest?

Yes, absolutely. So know that regardless of what E commerce platform you're on, you can still work with Pinterest and be just as successful. Shopify, you'll find myself talking about it quite a bit. Just because it's so easy. They have set it up so that it, it doesn't take very much time at all. It's so user friendly to be able to have all the tools and resources that Pinterest has available. So some of those specifically are when you integrate your Pinterest platform with your Shopify account. So it's through your sales channel. It will actually make it so that all of the products that you have on your website are going to naturally be brought over into the smart beats that we just talked about, rather it being the home feed or the search feed just Pinners are searching for. So that doesn't require you to have to pin anything. It literally requires no extra work. And you're getting exposure and you're getting organic sales. So that is like just blows you away, you know, 10 minutes to set that up, if that. And then you're getting endless amounts of exposure to those who are actually actively searching and relating behaviors to your merchandise. So super exciting there. Then also with Shopify, it makes it super easy to be able to set up like analytics to be able to track your Organic and promoted. And then of course being able to just easily pin from your website onto your Pinterest account, because that is, that's huge. Like, even though the sales channel doesn't require it, it's still another initiative that you want to take on. Perfect.

So if you're ready to kind of move up and take the next level, let's say someone's listening and they're feeling a little more advanced with Pinterest. Video is kind of a newer thing to the platform. Can you talk about best ways to use video?

Yeah, absolutely. We are so excited with our video results so far. We have seen far better results than anyone anticipated. And so it's, it's definitely like a huge talking media right now. And really, it's really driving a very strong awareness piece. Whether it's just getting like a brand out there or driving for some kind of like inspiration, whether it be, you know, in a different industry, like a DIY project or you know, a movie trailer. Like, it's so much engagement is happening with it. With apparel specifically, that's where it kind of gets a little gray. And where I'm meaning from that when you have like the Nordstrom of the world and you know that these big retailers that have, you know, revenue that or brand dollars that are going specifically for revenue and then brand dollars that are going for that awareness piece, it does phenomenal because it's getting the name out there. It's, it's getting the awareness piece. However, when you have a smaller marketing budget and you're only focused directly on that return video is probably not the place to start because you don't want simply awareness. You need to be solving for that direct like return on investment. And so just making sure that you're understanding like what your goal is and truly what's important to be able to stay ongoing on the platform. Perfect.

So stay more with say promoted pins that drive directly back to a URL and increase conversions versus a video that just builds brand awareness and maybe clicks or pins, but not actual sales.

Exactly, exactly.

Okay, so if you're more advanced and let's kind of get into the, the advertising side and the creating campaigns on Pinterest side, what's kind of the 101? I mean, because it's quite different than running campaigns on other platforms. So what's kind of the 101 getting started? What do you need to know to advertise on Pinterest?

Yeah, so the biggest one is our attribution window because of like what we talked about today and really what you'll hear anytime you're discussing Pinterest is that longer sales cycle or behavior cycle because you're getting in front of these users. So begin like so early in the, in their thought process and decision process and sales process. You want to make sure that you're planning and giving your campaigns and your ad groups enough time to ramp and truly show those behaviors. So Pinterest in General has a 30 day attribution window and that is perfect for apparel. So I would recommend all apparel to stay at the 30, 31 attribution window. And from there just making sure that you have like your budget and your goal very, very baked out. So making sure that you understand, like, what budget can I give on a consistent daily budget for, you know, a 30 day window, a 60 day window, and know that I need to get X return in order to deem this successful. And there's a couple different levels of success. There's the success where you're thinking, oh my gosh, this is amazing. I'm gonna pour every dollar I can find into it because it's working so well. There's another one that's like, hey, this is exactly where we want it. And then there's another level on the bottom where you're thinking, you know, is this successful? Do I need to, you know, pause and restrategize this and keep going? Really have that baked out so that when you're going through the numbers, it's not just like overwhelming that you truly understand what your objective is and what is acceptable to keep going into scale and what is not and being able to informally identify that and restrategize.

So is your initial, like when you're setting up your initial campaigns. And I'm going to, forgive me, because I'm probably going to relate a lot of this to Facebook advertising because that's more my wheelhouse. So say Facebook advertising. I will tell people, don't do anything longer than like a three day window to test because it's such an immediate return. So basically what I'm hearing you say is on Pinterest, don't do anything less than 30 days. Is that accurate?

Exactly, exactly. It's very intimidating, especially when you are hearing, you know, the exact opposite on Facebook, don't do more than three days. And that's exactly right. Like that's a, that's a pretty standard benchmark for Facebook. So that's really where just identifying like, what are you able to invest for the month? That's not to say that you're going to go a whole month without seeing success. That's not the, not the situation that's going to play, but just understanding that you're going to be ramping for 30 days. So looking at day one, your day one results will get better all the way up to your 30 day mark because of the attribution window, tying it back to the day that they engaged with the pin.

Ah, makes sense. How about when you get started basically setting up audiences, do you. So if someone's interested in working, first of all, I should back up. If someone's listening and they're interested in working with Pinterest advertising, basically that's one of your roles. There is a specialist at Pinterest you can work with to kind of help make sure you're maximizing what you're doing there. Do you work with your clients to help set up audiences as they get started or how do you begin to narrow down who you're targeting on Pinterest?

Yeah, absolutely. So yes, that's, that's exactly. My main role is partnering and creating a strong partnership with businesses to help them get onto Pinterest in every aspect. So from placing the tag to designing creative to setting up, you know, audiences and figuring out your targeting like specifications, all the way to making sure that we are driving that return. And there's a whole team of us. So I hope that everyone here is on the boutique world. So I hope that you'd be partnered with me and want to work with me, but there's actually a team of 150 of us, which is crazy. We're growing so fast and everyone's phenomenal and they are so knowledgeable. So definitely if you're able to, to get in touch and be able to create that partnership, definitely recommend it. And then as far as going into the different specifications for like, let's say audiences, for example, on Pinterest we theme our audiences as specific groups that you're going in. Maybe it's, you know, your CRM list, a retargeting list, an act alike list. Those are what we're really dialing in on. However, in a lot of cases when you're starting off, we'll skip the audience portion and start off with keywords and you know, maybe do exact match or broad match and get really more dialed down into finding net new business and truly showing that like Pinterest is driving great value in new resources in a new audience.

So if you think about Pinterest as like or your Pinterest advertising in terms of say a sales funnel, and again, I'm Going to go back to my Facebook marketing hat or marketing in general. I look at a sales funnel in terms of three pieces. New customer acquisition, customer conversion, and then retargeting. Could you kind of outline like what campaigns would look like? How would you set up those audiences on Pinterest basically for those three pieces.

Of the sales funnel? Yeah, absolutely. So with retargeting, let's start there. That seems to be, you know, the easiest and the most universal. So you're retargeting either site visitors, those that have gone to your site and have or have not purchased. Maybe you're targeting people who have purchased, you want to come back, or who hit the site and didn't. So there's those different levels. Then you can get into like a CRM list or an email list, someone who's giving you that you can actually upload and retarget them directly. And then I have partners who have all different levels of different email lists. Maybe it's like they purchased or they just signed up for their email newsletters. So you can actually bake those out into different ad groups that fall under the campaign level and being able to solve accordingly for, for the amount basically of users that you have. So that one's pretty straightforward. Then when you're going into like jumping to the other side like Net new, that's really going after your keywords, your interest, engaging with people who may or may not have ever heard of your brand before, that haven't purchased, you can go in and exclude people specifically that have purchased. So you can ensure that you're only getting in front of those who have not. And it truly is the Net new portion. And then from there, the targeting specifications, like I mentioned, that you can do different variations of keywords, interest, interest layered with keywords, you can stay focused in the search feed, in the home feed. That's really where it gets important that if you're, if you're truly ready to scale and take Pinterest to the next level, like that's where our team, that's why we exist is because there's so many different levers to truly have a customized marketing strategy that it's almost impossible to do by yourself. And so working with us and truly being able to have that collaborative experience is going to by far skyrocket your success.

That totally makes sense because it is a whole nother animal. And there are, like you said, there's so many different levers, so many different ways to, to look at this. I'm glad that you guys exist for that very reason. Because I think it's intimidating. So great resource. Can you talk about just some of the key metrics, like when you're going in and evaluating ads, you know, what are some key indicators of general ROI beyond what you talked about in terms of like slicing up your goal with three different levels, like, you know, low end, I should shut my ads off or doing okay or exceeding expectations. What other numbers cost per click, cost per pin, what do you look for?

Yeah, this is a great question. So when I go into optimizing account, the first thing I am looking at is the return. You know, really with boutiques and apparel, are we hitting goal? Are we not? It's just, just look at it that way, yes or no. If the answer is yes, then all of the other numbers aren't as relevant at that point. Not to say that you shouldn't be aware of them, but really, if you're hitting goal, even if your click through rate is lower than what it should be, or maybe your cost per click is higher than what you would normally Anticipate, if you're 2x higher than your goal ROAS, don't change it. You know, like it's okay to pay a little bit more like if it's a CPC situation because you're getting a return on it. And so definitely like keeping in mind that even if other numbers may be lower than like standard, if the roas is working, go with what's working. However, on the flip side, if you're not pulling the roas that you're deeming as your goal, or if you know you're kind of on that, that teetering spot where it might be like trending downward, then you want to look at click through rate is definitely the number one. You want to keep aware of your cost per click because that's really tying into your budget. So it's less focused on cpc. Kind of the mindset you have specifically with like your Google marketing and Facebook marketing, it's more just being aware of how competitive you're being in the auction. And then of course you can look at your engagement rate and really the reason to look at all of those engagement rate, if you're having thousands upon thousands of repins every single day, that's amazing. That's awesome. What is it doing for sales? And then you really have to kind of figure out how is it that I'm getting so many repins and not getting sales? Is it the landing page? So I need to drive them to a new landing page? Do I need to optimize? Do I need to, you know, move it around and edit the user experience on my site. Is the pin misleading? Is the pin not creating like a good storyline from Pinterest to the destination that I'm taking them to? So you start to ask yourself questions there and then when you're flipping it over to the cost or to the click through rate, that's allowing you to determine again how competitive you're being in the auction. If you have a low click through rate, you're not going to win auctions and you're not going to be served as much because basically the algorithm is giving it not relevant. And we're all about relevancy, we're all about making sure that the Pinner experience is number one. So at that point, again, making sure the same levers that we just talked about for your engagement rate, but then making sure that it's probably time to test the new creative. Are you using a flat lay? Are you using a model? Do you have a good clear call to action? Does the storyline make sense? And you can start strategizing and figuring out what changes need to be made based off of the rate. Ooh, those are all so good.

So based on your experience and clients that you work with, I mean my mind has like a thousand questions that just popped up. But one is, you know, in terms of there's the audiences and basically the campaign that you create on the back end. But let's talk about copy that works and images that work. Let's start with images. Images are you looking for most often lifestyle photos or product based photos or flat lays that are most successful for boutiques.

Yeah, yeah. So creative, as you know, is the make or break of Pinterest. We are a visual platform. Spend energy making sure that your creative is the best that is in your means. So with that standard across the board best practices that we see success with is having a lifestyle shot. So whether it's a model actually wearing it in just like a studio fill or even like outside in action motion wearing it just really just being on a model and actually being able to visualize what she's going to look like when she buys and wears it definitely is always going to trend higher. Then also looking at your call to action and making sure that it makes sense that it's not just an inspirational piece that they're actually able to purchase and go to the next level and have that for themselves. And then even a combination of making sure that you're not just promoting that one shirt, you're doing a promoted pin, it shouldn't Be look at this one top that I'm wearing. Your call to action should somehow get across the message that by clicking through and going to your site, you can shop multiple tops. It could be new arrivals, it could be your fall tops, it could be back to school top. But it's more than just one. So she knows that she's going for a shopping experience and not just a decision on that one product.

Ooh, that's really good. So are you most often, and I'm sorry if I interrupted you, but I have to jump in. So when you're doing promoted pins, are you most often driving traffic back to like a category page versus a specific product URL or say a blog post that a boutique owner's written that features a number of products?

Yes. Great. Great question.

So there.

There's definitely a mix. There are some pieces that, you know, the business owners know that that product is right, like beyond successful. You know, no matter what how terrible the creative is, they just know that that piece will sell out a thousand times over if they just it on there in those situations, drive it to the landing page of just that one product. That's fine. If you know that that product is specifically going, it's already proven successful. However, in. In majority of other cases or where I would say a good starting place to be is drive them to a category page. So give them multiple options. Because if you're just looking at one shirt, I could not like that shirt, but you could like that shirt. And then if there's more than one though, then I might like Sure A, and you like Sure B, but we're both still clicking on it. You're getting more people coming because you're appealing to more individuals and more tastes and more preferences. So. Ooh, that's so good.

So when you're testing and you're optimizing your campaigns, are you setting up again? Going back to my other advertising hat, different images. Let's say you're testing three different images with the same copy in the same campaign, driving to the same URL, and you're just testing out what. What image is going to look best. And then are you doing the same with copy as well?

Yes. And the thing to really steer on the cautious side when testing creative is that you can only test one thing at a time. So it needs to be the exact same image with a different call to action. The exact same call to action, maybe in a different color with the same image, or maybe you're testing different images. So therefore, your call to action needs to be not Only the same on each pin, but it needs to visually be the same. It can't be small and at the bottom on one, and then big and bold at the top on the other. And then call that a test. So you really got to make sure that if and when you deem it necessary to test, you know, the one issue or the one objective that you're trying to reach for that and then finish it, figure out what your results were, and then move to the next.

Ah, that makes total sense. Otherwise you aren't really getting an accurate. Apples to apples.

Exactly.

Awesome. Anything else? Like, if you think about like the most common boutique campaigns, like if someone. Let's look at it through two lenses. One, if someone's brand new and they're wanting to get started with a campaign, where do they start? And then come back with, you know, if someone is more advanced and they want to take campaigns to the next level, as a boutique owner, what does that look like?

Yeah. So really this is both a pain point, but once understanding why, it's like the greatest thing you've ever heard, there's not a strict answer to that, which I know is so hard because so many individuals are like, just give me the answer. But really. So in this situation, I would. If this was a situation where you have either someone new or someone very seasoned and they're looking to grow and expand sitting down, having a conversation and understanding their brand, I might be a boutique expert, but you are your expert. You know your market and what works for you, and that's very important. So sitting down and identifying a couple key factors as far as, you know, what are your bestsellers, what are you trying to push and really customizing it specific to those objectives so it looks different for everyone. My top 10 in, in revenue and in volume as far as like budget on the platform, there are 10 very different strategies. And what works for one could be detrimental to the other. It's crazy how like, different it gets. And again, that's why it's so important to like contact someone from my team and really like create that, like together, like partnership. But generally speaking, look for your bestsellers or something that you're. That you know is going to be successful, that you want to back and put some effort behind, but then also take it to the next level so that if you're, if you're promoting dresses, don't just promote dresses. Where can I wear this dress? What is it for? Is it for date night? Is it for back to school? Is it for, you know, on the go at work? Casual like give me some inspiration as to where and when I'm going to use that and then make sure that your call to action, your description and the keywords and targeting levers that you're using all tie back to that same story.

Ooh, that's good advice. That's so good right there. What happens when a pin takes off, let's say through a campaign or even organic and we're driving a ton of traffic back to a website, but then those pieces are sold out. Can you talk about best strategies for owners to keep that traffic alive?

Yeah, absolutely. So know that this happens so frequently and it's not a problem like it is on other platforms. Like with my background working with Facebook, if something would sell out, you had to stop it immediately because it just, it did not work. However, if you're truly promoting in your pin to shop an entire category or entire like themed idea, then if that one or two product options in that pin sells out, it's okay because when they're going through they're expecting, expecting to see more and when they get to your site and they see they may have fell in love with the cardigan that was on the pin, but when they go to the landing page and see all the different cardigans very rarely because they're so early in that shopping like discovery mind and they haven't made up their mind yet. They're open minded and so they're going to look at all of those and we just don't see it as a problem. There's, there's no backlash or any kind of like penalty that partners are seeing. If anything it's still driving their click through rate up. So where you want to take into consideration for let's say on the promoted side, to pause a pin if everything is sold out is when your performance starts dipping. If you're able to carry your goal return on investment long after that product is sold out, but it's still working, let it go until the performance starts to decline. Then re, you know, address the issue, come up with a new creative on the organic side. Just ensure that the landing pages are driving back to a category page and not just to like a broken, sorry, we no longer have this anymore and let it keep driving you success.

And I think there's apps that you can install on Shopify or whatever platform you use that can automatically do redirects for you. So say it is that one product page that's getting the hits and you're sold out. You know your site can be optimized to Fix that issue.

Correct. Exactly. And then you don't even have to. There's nothing you have to do is all manually for you. I'm not sure any of like the app names, but I know that it's pretty easy just going in and searching through the app store and being able to set that up perfect.

So going back to kind of the organic side again in the paid side, if I was going to sit down and really analyze every week my Pinterest analytics and what I should be looking for, can you give our listeners just like, hey, here's four things I want you to go and look for as you're, you know, ramping up your strategy on the platform to come back and optimize every week?

Yeah, absolutely. So definitely with the organic, the most obvious ones are going to be your followers and your monthly viewers. So if you look at your profile or your business page or if you don't have one, look at someone else's business page, you'll see both of those numbers now. So you'll see the followers, how many followers they have, but then you'll see how many monthly viewers they have. Both are very important. You might only have 3,000 followers, but if you're staying consistent and you're pinning relevant content on, like I mentioned, the consistent basis, you could have a million monthly views. And that is awesome. So just making sure that you're keeping those numbers consistent. And really the way to do that is just making sure that whether you're doing on your own or using one of the tools that we talked about earlier and just making sure that that continuous flow is happening with the followers you have. And then it's going to help you with the monthly viewers and driving the followers from there. You can look at your analytics tab in your Ads Manager account and keep an eye on what pinners are resonating with on Facebook. You might find that you can sell out addresses, no problem. They fly off the shelves, you can't keep them in stock. You turn off, like turn on a promotion and boom, they're gone. But on Pinterest you might find that cardigans are like your hot sellers and that's always what's getting repinned. So definitely, like listen to your, your followers and your engagers and see like what is, what is sitting well with them and what's taking off and then shift your promoted strategy or more of your organic strategy accordingly. Perfect.

So kind of our, as we're kind of wrapping up our time together, if you kind of look at all the accounts that you work with collectively because you see a lot of successful boutique owners on a daily basis. If you could say that there are, you know, one or two key things that your most successful clients have common in terms of how they use the platform and how they operate their business, what do you think those things are?

I'm definitely an open mindset. So my most successful partners by far are the ones who come into strategy meetings with myself and Shawnee, my account manager with an open mind, willing to learn and understand and hear our suggestions. But at the same time they're also challenging us with what they know is best for their boutique and understanding when to pull the lever and say yes or no to something and when to have a valued a very thought out test. So just making sure that if something doesn't work on another platform, know that have it top of mind, express it to us so that we can then identify it. And if we still feel that it's going to be the best fit to promote on Pinterest, we'll come up with a plan knowing that it was or wasn't successful in another situation and be able to target that better. So really just having that transparency and I can't like stress this word enough, like we are partnerships, you're not going to call in and once you have that dedicated support, you're not going to be working with multiple different people. You're going to have that one on one long term strategy. And so make them your best friend, make sure that you're pulling them in and understanding your business so that you can have that collaboration and challenging each other and growing and sharing knowledge and truly having that great relationship.

Perfect. So before we kind of wrap with.