Boutique Chat #203 | How to Build your Boutique and Create an Unforgettable Brand | Lisa Landers

Get ready for episode number 203 with a California based boutique that I have followed for some time. You guys, I know you're gonna love the tips inside of this one. Let's talk about your business strategy and the juicy details of what actually works from mainstream fashion to fashion on Main street and the entire ecosystem behind it. How do we scale your company and do it with the balance and the happiness that we all seek? Let's hear from those insiders, experts and strateg that actually make it happen. I'm your host Ashley Alderson from the Boutique Hub and I can't wait to chat. I'm not sure quite how long ago it was probably at least 5 years ago I started to follow Swirl Boutique on Instagram. You know, I think maybe it's me coming from the Midwest and dreaming of those beaches and those beautiful photos and actually having the sun on my skin that drew me into their Instagram and really the overall feeling of their brand. I've always loved following brands like Chaser and Wild Fox and Show Me youe Moomoo and really Swirl Boutique encompasses all of that west coast feel into their store. So I was so excited earlier last I guess late last year in the fall when our retail bootcamp clients inside of the Boutique hub took took a trip to LA together and during LA Market I was able to meet Lisa Landers, the owner of Swirl Boutique. And it was a great conversation. Just someone who has so much experience in this industry, who has three storefronts in California, an online store, and has definitely been working on Instagram since Instagram was brand new. Now I know you're going to love this episode because she's got so much experience from many years in the business that those of you with brick and mortars can certainly take to heart. So guys, please enjoy this episode with my friend Lisa Landers, the owner of Swirl Boutique. Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast. This week I'm so excited to be joined by Lisa Landers, the owner of Swirl Boutique, a Southern California based boutique that's been in business since 2006. And I have to be honest, I remember following Swirl on Instagram a long, long, long time ago. And maybe some of you listening have also. So I was really excited when a friend of ours, Sarah Resnick with Chinese Laundry, was able to introduce Lisa and I during a recent trip to LA that we had. So Lisa, I'm so excited you could join me today.

Hi guys. How's everyone doing?

We're excited to hear from you. I know that you've Got a viewpoint, I would say, on this industry that not a lot of people have for a couple of different reasons that we're definitely going to get into. Before we do, though, I would love it if you could share a little bit about what Swirl is today with two locations and opening a third. You've got over 60,000 followers on Instagram and really a really strong book of business with some very popular brands. Can you kind of give us some behind the scenes of what the business is right now?

Yes. So what we do specifically is we currently have a lot of designer favorites. So I have a lot of the big brands that I actually mix with my smaller lines, the fast fashion lines. And what we do is we try and do an elevated mix with price friendly options. And currently we carry about 40 local different jewelry designers. And it didn't start off that way. When I first started, we actually were all high end. I had kids, I had men's, I had home, I had bath. And I think a lot of you guys will know when we. Can I stop. Sorry. Really quick.

That's okay. We can cut that out. Just pick right up where you left off.

Okay. Sorry. Nervous, nerve wracking. That's all right.

It's just you and I. No worries.

Yes. Okay. Tell me when you're ready.

Go ahead.

So when I started off, we had so many different things going on. I had, you know, people coming in with, you know, black American Express cars on file. And when the economy took a shift, I had to take a shift. So I was able to refocus the store. I actually had a space that was quite huge. And Encinitas, that was my first location. We ended up moving it to a smaller space. I got a fabulous lease deal and I just refocused it on women. From there I actually did a little bit of a mix. So I started doing the downtown buys and a lot of you guys call it the fast fashion buys. Those were my price friendly options, my margin builders. And that really is what kept me in business. And from there I was able to open up my second location in San Clemente. I want to say about, gosh, like six months afterwards, which was a little crazy having the two stores doing the renovation on one and then actually opening up a second location. But again, I was able to secure a fabulous lease deal. And I kind of just sat there patiently waiting for everything to take a take a turn, which it did. And we're in this fabulous economy now and we're still modeling the same business model that we had priority.

So tell me about the stores. How much of your business would you say is split between the two stores and online? Right now?

I'd say most of my business is still in the brick and mortar. So we started the online in January and that's slowly growing. But we're still. Our main focus is still the stores and we're actually launching a third store in the next couple months in Carlsbad.

Awesome. And when you say elevated brands, these are some of my favorite to follow on Instagram. Can you talk about some of those brands that you carry and your thoughts on carrying a more elevated price point and collaborating with that type of brand?

Right. Well, I have to say first and foremost that doing the fast fashion, I know a lot of people just want to focus on the fast fashion, which is great. Like I said, it's great for your margins. It's an easy buy. You can replenish as needed. You're not doing buys out for six months in advance. However, I do feel that linking up with some of these brands really kind of sets you apart. And they also have their own support team. So we'd like to do a lot of pop ups. For example, we just did one with Elspace. They covered some costs, they brought in some of their people. They also have their own great Instagram blogger list that they were able to invite that came to the event and supported us and talked about our event. And I think those things are also important. When you're trying to build a store and build a brand that you have some brand recognition. It doesn't have to be your whole store. You can pick and choose. You can do a couple of the ones that you love. Like I love Flynn Sky. I mean, maybe there's something that you love that you want to touch on and some of them do have some minimums. But try and incorporate that into your business model and you would also get some of the recognition from those brands too. And then you have the ability to partner with them on events, which I think is so important, especially trying to set yourself apart from all the other stores that are there. That would be something that I would say is what has also plummeted us into a different echelon as far as being a strong boutique.

Perfect. And I want to talk more about that in just a little bit. The pop ups, working with influencers and some of those strategies that you've used. I'm curious on something that you said when you got started and I want to hear the story of how you got started as well, because I know it came from working other places in the industry to get experience and then buying your way into a boutique. But it was during a downturn economy. And right now, you know, with such a strong economy, so many boutiques opening and really trying to scale and grow, what would your advice be to prepare for a downturn that we all know inevitably is coming? How do you prepare for that and how do you work your way through that if you find yourself in that situation.

Being conservative with your buys? I would say start there. Your projections for last year, I always say it's easier to fill in than it is to, to decrease when your orders coming in. I would say also, you know, looking at the brand and saying, hey, you know what if this doesn't work, would you guys be interested in taking it back? Would you guys swap me out? Would you guys, you know, seeing what they offer you as far as a client, what could actually be something that would be beneficial for you? So I always say it's like, hey, if I'm going to try this and it doesn't work, what's your guys policy on what happens here? Because you don't want to be stuck with items that you have to put on sale that you're losing money on and then you're expected to buy more of the same product. I would say definitely what I've done too in the past is who works on consignment. So I've asked local artists or any new brands really. I actually had a girl come up to me the other day. She has this killer shoe line, gorgeous, all leather, handmade in Bali. And I said, you know what, I'd love to take this line in. She's not in any stores. I said, you know what? To get the exposure, you're going to get the exposure with me. I'm going to put you in my store and if I like it, I'll place a regular order going forward. I said, how do you feel about doing terms? And she looked at me like, never heard of that before. I said, yeah, well this is something that I need to be able to do because I've already, let's say I've already bought for the season, I'm already past my quarter, I've already used all my dollars or committed my dollars elsewhere. So I think it's nice to ask people that are independent and that also gives you the opportunity to have something else that nobody else has. I think that's been a really strong tool for me because you're able to carry all this, a unique product, but you're not up front spending the dollars on it, and you're only required to pay for what sells. So I think it's nice to ask brands that are just starting out, like, hey, do you have a program for this? Would you be open to a net 30? Would you be open to a net 60? Or. A lot of times, like, we like to do, we like to do consignment terms. So if you're a new brand or you're a local artist, that's a way to get product in the stores without having to put your budget out there first. And then you're only required to pay for what you sell.

I think that's so helpful. And that's really. I think going back to this conversation about carrying an elevated brand, that's one of the opportunities that you have is to negotiate that. Whereas, you know, a more fast fashion line, you're. You're kind of stuck with what you bought, right?

100%. Yeah, there's. There's no buybacks there. I mean, even if there's a damage, typically you're stuck with it. And that's just the way that particular industry works. But you want to work with brands that want to keep you. Keep you happy and keep you buying their product, and those are going to be your higher, elevated lines. I did have another example where I had this whole collection just, man, it didn't work for me. And it was sitting on the floors, and this brand comes to me like, hey, well, why aren't you. Why aren't you placing orders anymore? And I said, you know what? I have all this inventory, and it just isn't moving. And nobody's buying these tiles anymore. I'm just gonna have to pass on the line going forward. And they said, you know, wait a minute, Let it. Let us. Let's see what we can do here. I waited a couple days. They got back to me, and they said, you know what, Lisa? We're gonna go ahead and take all this back for you. I said, really? You're gonna take all this back? They're like, yeah, we're gonna apply the credit to future orders. I said, you gotta be kidding me. Because that's kind of unheard of. But I feel going forward, that's where this industry is going. You're going to have to find people that are strong partners for you and are willing to work with you as a vendor, because they know my store. I've been around for a long time. If I can't sell it in one store, the other store, and online, then. Then it's just not selling. So that's something that I really took to heart. I said, you know what, Those are the kind of people that going forward, I want to partner up with because they believe in me, they believe in my store and they want me to be successful because if I'm successful, they're successful.

I really like that, man. I hope everybody heard that and wrote that down. That's a really good takeaway. I just lost my train of thought. I had another good follow up question for you. So Cassidy's gonna hear this and have to edit this out. Shoot. Gosh. It was. Oh, okay. I know what it was. Here. Here we go. Sorry for the pause when you're planning those buys because I know you've had experience as a buyer even before the boutique and you're purchasing both immediates and those items that are, you know, four to six months out. Can you tell me what your open to buy strategy looks like? Do you have a program that you work with or a planner that you work with, or how are you sitting down and planning to make those purchases and coming back and replenishing on a week to week basis?

Well, it's based for me on the last year's projections. And then I'm a little bit shy of that because I always like to err on the side of being conservative. But I have to say, as a buyer, it's hard to go, this line is going to be, I'm going to spend this much on this line and this much on this line. Because a lot of times if you look at the collections, sometimes they're better than others. And you have to take that into consideration that when you go and you see these lines that if you budget out, like, you know, for one example, oh, I love this line. It looks fabulous this season. So I'm going to allocate more dollars towards this line and then something else is going to have to get a little less. So I don't go into saying, oh, I'm going to spend 2,000 on this and then this on this, because it's just, it's almost virtually impossible. And as far as the immediate fill ins, that's the great thing about having immediate fill ins that you can actually look and see, oh my gosh, this is doing so well. Let's reorder this. Let's do this. Let's actually, let's plan a trip tomorrow and let's go to LA and let's find some great pieces and we have about, let's say we have $1,500 to spend or $3,000 let's go downtown or. I love that about immediates because you can kind of wiggle that into your budget a little sooner. I mean, we definitely allocate for that too. But sometimes if you're having a great week, couple great weeks and you need those fill in pieces, you can just go ahead and do that.

Perfect. So next question. I have to laugh at this. You've been in the industry for a long time and you've been through hiring and firing, I'm sure, and training multiple members on your team.

I have stories.

Anyone who is a business owner and has been through that hiring process, oh my gosh, the stories. I'd love to know though, you know what's been the biggest lesson, do you think that you've learned along the way in hiring, firing, training and coaching your team? If you could? You probably can't even name just one. But what are some of your favorite lessons that you've learned?

I have to be completely honest, I'm still learning lessons about that because once you think you have it figured out, you know, you definitely get a support. I would just say, you know, it's to me, I hire, I hire girls that embody the swirl girl feeling. So they don't necessarily have to have the experience that I'm looking for. But you can always teach that. But I'm looking for girls that are friendly, girls that are honest employees, that are self starters. Because you're like most boutiques, you're in the store a lot by yourself, so you need to know what to do on your downtime. A new requirement for us now is social media skills, which was not a requirement when I first started. There was no social media, which makes me sound kind of like a dinosaur. But there wasn't any social media. So we've all had to kind of be self taught there. So I'm looking for girls that kind of at this point can do a little bit of everything. We do a lot of photo shoots now, so girls that can style. So the girl that we're looking for can touch on everything. But the great thing about the girl that works for us is that she's going to be able to do everything. Whereas in a bigger retail space she might not be able to touch on the buying, touch on the styling for photo shoots, meet the bloggers, do the merchandising. So we're looking for somebody that can have a little bit more well rounded than just a girl that's in there selling clothes to clients.

Absolutely. So back this up. You and I were talking about this a Little bit before we started the podcast, how you got your start, if you want to tell that story.

Story.

Because I'd love to hear. You know, as so many boutiques are adding team today, I think one of the fears everybody has underlying is what if my team member leaves me to start her own boutique, which happens all the time. And you've got such a great viewpoint on this. Would you share kind of more of your backstory?

It's happened to me, to be quite honest. I've had that happen multiple times. And it's something that just happens and you have to learn that it's going to happen. And you want these girls to be successful. You want them to want to be better than just probably working at your boutique. But that is an underlying fear because you're like, I don't want to share too many trade secrets. Because you don't want to see your store carbon copied in the next town over because you've now given all of your secrets because they do work close with you. So a little bit about me. I actually worked for a big retail space when I was like, 17 years old. I was. Every time that they'd have a contest, I would win. I would, you know, there was. I just loved it. It was just so much fun for me. I went to North County, San Diego for college. And of course, being a broke college student, I was like, I gotta get a job. I gotta find somewhere to work. So I walked in this little boutique and I was like, oh, this is so cute. And I remember shopping there with my mom, and I was like, oh, my gosh, I have to work here. So I pursued the owner to the point where I think I was pretty much a stalker and was like, I need this job. I need this job. And she finally succumbed to me and hired me. So I got some great experience there. And from that store, I actually moved to another location, which was another boutique in the area. And they had more elevated fashion. And this gal before I was working for just carried the fast fashion. So I learned a lot about the buying and the customers, and I was able to kind of take some of the experience that I had there and finally was able to secure my own store, which was actually an existing store at the time called Squirrel Boutique, which is still called today. And I just was more attracted to that store because I was like, you know what? She has all the wines I love. She, you know, is willing to stay on. She's willing to help me. And part of the deal was is that she was going to teach me how to buy at market and do like that. The higher end buying, which I didn't really have that much experience with and show me the books and how everything operates. So I took that as, oh, great, I have a teacher here. This is going to be fabulous because I need some of the refinement, I need some of the help. I haven't planned, quite mastered some of these things that I need to master in order to own my own boutique. So she stayed on. So I was there with her. I want to say she was probably there with me probably for a good, you know, four months training me, answering my questions. And from then I was just on my own and I actually had to learn a lot of the lessons myself. When I first started, I was working my store seven days a week. So I always tell buyers or I'm sorry, I always tell owners, you know what, you're not going to just jump into a store and then decide that you're not going to work. I feel that it's really important that you need to be there. And I couldn't hire help when I first started. I had to work it. So I was there seven days a week. I want to say maybe I even closed on Sundays just to get myself a day off at one point. So I was working, I was working, I was working. And yes, hiring girls, it was always a challenge. An underlying. I would say an underlying. Sorry if I want to stop that. Sorry about that.

It's okay.

Okay, I'm ready.

Okay. Do you want to finish your sentence or just end cut right before you started an underlying?

Yeah, let's, let's, let's cut before that.

Okay, perfect. Do you have when I'm going to start my own sentence over? My gosh. You and I both, we're on a roll of starting and stopping today. Aren't with your team. Would you say now that you have team across multiple locations and starting a third? How do you keep your team on track in terms of what's happening? You know, is it weekly team meetings, is it weekly team emails or how are you keeping everybody on the same page?

We have sales goals, so we definitely have a team meeting. I let the girls know, this is coming in today, this is coming in tomorrow. Let your clients know we have daily sales goals that I like them to meet. They're always in the know. Like I said, I'm a very hands on or as mentioned to you earlier, I was, I'm a very hands on owner. So I'm always in the stores. I'm always connecting with my clients. At both locations, I'm always letting the girls know what's coming in. I'm always communicating with them what we have, what's happening, if we have an event coming up. So, yes, I would have to say probably weekly team meetings, weekly emails. Just giving the information as it comes to is always something that we like to do. And just give them a heads up on, like, here, this is happening. We're going to be doing this today. And I always let them know, I said, you've got to be paying attention to our social media because people are going to come in wanting things that are on social media, asking you about it, and you need to know what's going on. So please, please, please keep and be mindful of what's happening on our social media. If we're doing any promos or we're offering like this beautiful sweater today or this has been restocked because women do come in wanting the things that they see on our Instagram, our Facebook, our Pinterest. So it's important that they stay up to date with that as well. Absolutely, absolutely.

Are you hearing enough what you're hearing?

I'm not.

Turn my volume.

All right.

So thinking about the owner that helped you get started, started, and now how you have a team and you're coaching them on a weekly basis as you kind of look back at how this has all evolved together, would you say that there's been certain fears and obstacles that you've overcome along the way, that kind of, in hindsight you're thankful for, like, big lessons that you learned from something, you know, that you may have called a failure at one point?

Sure, yeah. I'm a big believer. And it sounds hokey, but if you have to force it, it's not right. I've gotten into the point where I was almost ready to sign a lease in a different town. I had a beautiful space ready. It was my dream space. And I was going to ship my original location when my lease was up to that space at the ninth hour, the guy says, oh, you don't have the space anymore. The store that wants to be in that same space wants to get two spaces. So they've said that you can't be there because they know that you have the lines that they want. It's a part of the. To this lease that you're not. You're not going to be able to be in the space. And I was, I was crushed. I was like, oh, my gosh. I was telling my customers, this is where we're going. This is going to be my new space. I was devastated. And there was a space right in the same center that actually opened up. It was actually a better, better deal for us as far as rent went. I was able to basically start from scratch and do my build outs and make this beautiful store. And in the same process, I was able to keep my other location open. So truly, we were only closed, I want to say, a couple days in the transition. And then from there I was able to secure San Clemente and open up my second location. And I don't believe I would have been able to do that if I was at that other location in the other town. So looking back on that, I was so thankful that I didn't make that move and I retained my client base and I was able to grow actually from my existing Encinitas location.

Man, isn't it funny how it all comes full circle and works out like that?

And it's something I've learned every time that something like this has happened and where you feel like, oh my gosh, you're forcing it, you're forcing it. Sometimes it's just not the right deal for you. And you have to be conscious and you have to look at the dollars and you have to do things I always say based on business and not on emotion. Like, I really wanted this space, but why was I willing to risk everything in order to get it? So I always think you got it. Think about it in perspective. If it's meant to be your space and you're meant to be something that you need to do, it's going to happen for you a little bit easier.

Absolutely. So from that, in the two communities that you're in now, have you found some great opportunities to collaborate with other local businesses or have you found the communities supportive of your business and found success working with some community organizations?

Oh my gosh, 100%. We always try and do things, especially in my Encinitas location. Now we have about four businesses that every time somebody's having a party, okay, Lisa, you stay open, we're going to be doing this. Okay, you stay open, we're going to do this. And we always try. And you know, I've had some. There's a, there's a fitness place next door to me, next door to me in my Encinitas location. And I've let them pop up in my store. I put a rack up and then they invite their clients. There's also a hair salon we like to work with and partner with. So, so anytime something's going on, we are, we're obviously we're yes girls. So anytime somebody wants to do something with us, I'm a yes person. Or if we want to do a pop up at a different location. I was just at the on Daz in San Diego because somebody asked me, hey, would you mind bringing a rack of clothes? And I see those as opportunities to actually meet clientele. I don't see them necessarily as big, big selling days. I see them more as a networking opportunity and I like it. Field marketing is still very relevant to me. I always say if you make one customer that comes in and spends a couple hundred dollars at your boutique, even once a month, you're winning. So you have to think of them as that, as more than you are, as a sale opportunity.

Man, isn't that the truth? My husband and I were just talking about this yesterday about how so many people define sales as almost a negative connotation, like a salesy, a car salesman term. Right. But sales in its purest form is counseling someone through a process and helping them find a need and a solution or I'm sorry, finding a solution for a need. And that's exactly what you're saying. How do you serve those customers over and over again, not just one time and put the money in the bank. Right, Correct, Absolutely.

So something that we feel passionate about today, I mean, you'll find me popping up everywhere. I'm a big believer in that. And I think getting out of your own comfort zone of your own store and meeting other people in the community is super important. And no matter how big you get, I feel that it is still something that we strive to do.

So would you say pop ups have been really one of the key marketing strategies you guys have used for new customer acquisition?

I would say pop ups. I would also say working with influencers because a lot of times I have people coming in saying, oh my gosh, I follow so and so. And I saw them work, wearing your clothes and I didn't even know you had a store here. That's also been a big shift for us too. We've had to get on that train just like everybody else has and start working with influencers, start connecting with bloggers. It's it especially right in your area. I always say start with who you have in your area because that's always the easiest. You get to meet them, you get to develop a relationship with them. So that's how I started, actually started with one local blogger and she was wonderful to me and I said, you know what, I've never done this before. Would you would you be willing to come in and try some of my stuff on? Because I remember thinking I had a referral from her. She said, oh yeah, I saw it on so. And so I don't know if I can name drop here. She'd probably love it. But she's the stylish housewife. Her name's Jen. And so she came and she goes, oh my gosh. Yeah, I shock her all the time. Like, I would love to work with you. So that's basically how I started with working with bloggers. And that was, gosh, maybe about five years ago, six years ago. Go ahead.

Nope, go ahead, keep going.

And yeah, so it's something I always tell people, don't aim for these huge bloggers that want all this and influencers that need these big budgets. Look in your area, see who wants to be featured in your clothes in your area and see if you can do some type of collab with them. You can even possibly trade with them just for the clothing. And a lot of the girls and microbloggers starting out are willing to do that. And there's so many of them right now that I always recommend, like, start in your area first and work with those girls and then build it out from there.

And would you say that you've had just as great success with girls that are more micro bloggers, you know, say under 10,000 followers all the way up to, I know, on your Instagram, I mean, you've got some multi million dollar or I'm sorry, multimillion person bloggers, you know, with huge followings that you work with as well.

Yes, I would say so, because you have the community. And I always look at that like, what is their engagement? Who's their community? Is their community going to support everything that they do? I have one girl that actually will be seeing later today that she has this insane community that just lives and dies for her. I mean, she comes in, a lot of the girls will come in. Looking around, you can kind of tell they're not there to shop, they're there to see if she's there because she's posting on her stories that she's there. So she has, you know, I want to say about 30, 30,000, I think, and has had less numbers. And she just has such an insane community. And so I always say, you know what, I'd like to work with her because anything that she does, her followers and her community just responds to. So I would say look for the engagement, look to see how well received this person is, because you can have somebody that has such huge followers but they have no engagement. It doesn't really do anything for your business anyways.

Do you like when you set contracts with them, do you try collaborating with like one or two posts or do you set more long term campaigns when you work with them?

You know, we usually do one or two posts just because that's more realistic because sometimes the longer campaigns aren't sustainable. So I would say one to two posts is usually how I like to contract them. They typically are going to be doing something that I don't, I don't always carry everything in store that I carry online, but it's going to have to be something that's online so people that aren't from here are local can actually get into as well. So yeah, I would say one to two posts is usually what I like to do personally. And recently we've been doing takeovers so that's been a fun way to, to get some engagement and to give other bloggers a chance to recognize. So we have, like I said, you said 60K. And we have these girls that are, you know, maybe they're 60,000, maybe they're 11,000 followers. So what they do is they get to get the opportunity to take over our Instagram for the day. So they're wearing cute, cute outfits from the store, they're tagging themselves. They're actually directing our followers back to them. So we see it as an opportunity for them to actually gain more exposure too. So you have to leverage that sometimes when you're actually working with these microbloggers. Yeah, it's just as important because I think you are helping them out too. So you have to not think about it in the sense that, oh my gosh, they're spreading the word about my boutique. I have to do all this for them and da da, da. You know, especially with smaller boutiques with smaller budgets. Look for the microbloggers. I'm a huge fan of that.

So good talk about collaborating with some of the brands. Say show me your moomoo or Wild Fox. And you've also been able to wrap influencers and bloggers into those collaborations too. Can you kind of lay out how some of that works?

Sure I can. I can probably use a good, A good one I would say would be, again, I keep going back to LSpace just because I had such a successful event with them. Their team's amazing. So we actually reached out. They reached out to bloggers on our behalf. I sent them over. I have a cultivated list that we like to send over and then they have their list and they edit it from there. And they sent out invitations to our event. And with that invitation, obviously we required an rsvp. And these gals, when they came, they were given a really, really nice goodie bag that was on. Excuse me, a really nice goodie bag that Else Face provided. And a lot of times too, you. I have the connections with some of these gals, so sometimes I go, hey, would you want to do something with so and so? And they're like, oh yes, we've been, she's. We've had her on our target list for forever. You actually can get this to her? I said, of course, let's see what we can do. So sometimes we'll do stuff like that where I reach out on my behalf and then they get the item so it's not coming out of my stock and then it goes from there. So that's something, a tool that I've been trying to utilize more as well. That because we have such great connections that we want to work with our brands to help supply. You know, we can offer the liaison as far as like getting in touch with these girls, but then they're going to supply them with the pieces that they're asking for.

I love that. Such a good idea. One thing you and I had talked about and just overall in the industry today kind of goes toward these events and experiences that you're hosting with these brands, but also what you're doing in store. Something that's changing today is boutiques getting away from the personal customer experience. And really the thing that makes a boutique stand out amongst any type of big box retailer. Can you talk about how you've trained your staff to really serve your customer in that VIP way and give them that experience?

Yeah, I always say to me, I started off at you're welcoming somebody into your home. So how would you treat somebody that's walking into your house? And that's how we treat our ladies. And when they come in, we know everything about you. We know your daughter's name, we know where you just went on vacation. So these kind of become, I would say, like friends of the store. They're not clients anymore and that's how we like to treat them. We pull for them, they style them. So they're floor stylists and they go, they suggest pieces. So let's say you love this brand. Well, you might love this brand as well. The girls are really, really hands on with our customers as far as developing relationships, letting them know when new items arrive. We don't send mass texts. We don't send mass emails. We are all about the personal experience. And that's something that I built my business on. And no matter what, that's something that we're going to continue to do.

I like that your customers. I'm sure you've got the stats to back it up. Just your customer lifetime value, how often they're coming back again. And I always use the stat that 80% of your revenue will often come from 20% of your list. Would you say that holds true for you too?

So, sorry, Sorry. Just give me one second. There's a.

That's okay.

You might get a pick up a dog in the background.

It's okay.

Okay, let's review that one one more time. Go ahead.

Perfect.

Again.

I'm sure you've probably heard the stat that 80% of your revenue comes from 20% of your list, because it sounds like you're really approaching it in that way. How do we continue to serve in a VIP level versus, you know, hit the masses and bring them into the store? Would you say that that's kind of been your stat along the way too, just really driving in that customer lifetime value?

I would 100% agree with that because I always tell the girls same thing. The minute you're. Let's say you're having some downtime in the boutique. The minute you start letting these clients know that their items are in, or this is in, or this brand's in, or, oh my gosh, I know she loves Wild Fox. I know she loves one Sky. I know she loves this. Oh, my gosh, come in. I said, it's the difference between, you know, $100 day or $3,000 day. And it's so true because the girls come in, they go, oh, my gosh, you. You sent me this text, and even if they're not there to pick up that item, you've reminded them that you're there. You've told them that you're thinking about them. And I think that's such a great tool that it's so simple that people just don't do anymore.

Yeah, everyone is focused on the masses. I think that's a really good point. Do you think that's the same strategy you use during the J months? You know, in retail, everybody cringes about the J months being so slow. How do you keep your strategy and keep your fire alive during those slower months?

Well, we do. Well, sometimes we'll do just depending on the month we strategize and we'll do like Little flash sales on something so you don't have to offer this huge discount. You go, oh, my gosh. Well, maybe I have so many sweaters and I just need to move them. Okay, well, today we're doing a flash sale on all sweaters, or we call them VIP nights, where we just invite our VIPs to come in and we offer them a general discount and that helps move some product. And we know we need to move it anyways. That's something that we like to do, too. And we offer them, you know, maybe a little bit of champagne, a little bit of treats, and we just have a nice intimate experience just for them. And we keep the stores out open a little bit longer. So that's something that we do too. So we don't always just focus on these huge events. We will definitely do things that are smaller and more intimate, which I think some of them like even more, to be quite honest with you. And usually the feedback that I get that this is such a great event, like, we just love hanging out here. And they truly feel like this is. This is for them, which it is.

Yeah, that's perfect, man. You know, since you've been in business over the years, I'm sure you've seen so many changes just how boutiques operate, how retail operates. Where do you think, looking forward the next five years, where do you think the industry's going and what big changes do you feel like we're going to see on the horizon?

Well, I think we're going to plateau out a little bit. I definitely see that coming. I think brand. I mean, there's so many brands out there. I'm sure you can agree that there's. I feel like there's so much selection right now with the brands that are being offered to just your general consumer. I think brands are also going to have to be able to do buybacks and give better margins. I think they're going to have to work with their retailers a little bit more because there's no longer. The day of. You need to have this minimum and you can't, you know, you can't send any back. You don't accept any swaps, you know, So I feel that they're going to have to also adjust and change. You're just going to have to have smarter buys. I think a lot of. I do see a lot of people starting their own line. A lot of the successful boutiques that I've seen are also starting their own lines, which I think is a great idea because that's just direct sales for you and then you can launch those in your store. I see it happening. I mean, influencers taking over the world. I definitely believe that. I don't know what platform is going to be strong. I think Instagram will also level out. I think you're going to see some other platforms becoming just as relevant as Instagram for sales. I Talked into a YouTuber just recently, and I'm not sure where it's going, but I think that's going to get a little bit stronger as well. So I see it going in a couple different directions, but I see it there being less boutiques and stores, and I see there being more brands and I see there being more influencers. So I see boutiques having, I don't want to say the upper hand, but I do see that. I see that it's going to weed out some of the other stores, and I think people are going to really, the ones that stay are going to have a little bit more leverage than they've had in the past.

I like it. So, Lisa, let's talk about you personally. Sound good?

Yes.

All right, so tell me this. Is probably everyone listening? Every business owner, period. Not just boutique owner. But the struggle is real. Balancing life, business, social media, just the constant demands we're under. I'd love to know, how do you try to find balance, if that's even a real word. How do you try to find balance in your life or even just find time to unplug and get away from business for a little bit?

Well, I always kid that if I was, you know, in a different country, on a different time zone, that's the best way that I can relax. But I know that that's not always possible. So it is a 24 7. It's something that I tell all my friends, even wanting to start small businesses that you are on 24. 7. There's questions, there's calls. I make myself very accessible to my team. I'm always present, so to say. Do I have a time where I shut off? It's. It's. Truthfully, I'm still working on that. We are opening up the Carlsbad location in the next couple months, which is down the street from my house. So this will be the first time I'm actually local to a store. I'm going to consolidate a lot of my offices space, my warehouse space for my web division. And I was joking around my husband, I said, well, hey, we can just put a little nursery in the back there and just, you know, make that happen. So when we want to start a Family. So to answer your question, truthfully, I'm still working on it, but it is a passion for me. I love it. I don't want to be away from it. So it's fun for me. It's something that inspires me every day. And I love my team. I love my vendors. I love the business aspect of it. I still get texts from my customers like, hey, do you have this sweater in? I'm like, yeah, let me check. So. So it's hard to say, and I'm working on finding that balance. But AM I quite 100% there with what I need to be doing? Probably not, man.

I think we all could agree with that. So true. Where you go? I mean, to be on 24 7, like, we're talking about, right? To keep going and keep driving every single day. The saying is, you can't fill someone else's cup if yours is empty, Right? So talk to me about where you go find education, inspiration, motivation. Do you have a favorite book or podcast that you enjoy?

I have so many podcasts that I enjoy, and it's something, too. I'll just go to the gym, put my headphones on, listen to my podcasts. I call them creative days. So sometimes I'm not having to be in the store 24 7, which is great. And those are the days that I get creative, and I just brainstorm. I think, okay, what can I do for this? What can I do you for that? I definitely enjoy that because that's truly my passion, too, is that it's not just the daily ins and outs and the daily grind of the business. It's really, where are we going from here? And the more successful I've become, I've been able to have those kind of days, like, where are we going from here? What do we need to do? What's going to be the next big thing for Swirl Boutique? So I love those days. And to be honest, those are my outlet days. I spend time with family. I spend time. You know, I always tell my trainer, I said, this is my me time. I'm with him almost every morning. And that kind of gets everything started for me. I have my quiet time. I have no phone. I have nobody, nobody calling me. It's before the store's open. So that's. That's really how I like to start off my mornings. And again, the podcast, I absolutely love the podcast. If I can get to read a book, I'm super pleasant. I'm sorry. Start that over again. If I have time to read a book, I definitely enjoy that as well. So, yeah, to answer your question, again, truthfully, it's something that I'm working on still, but a lot of it is creative for me in general, so that really fills up my cup.

Do you have a favorite book that you've read recently?

Many Lives, Many Masters. I'm obsessed with that book. I tell my husband all the time. I'm like, I think I've lived past lives before. He's like, you're crazy. So it's something that I'm just. It's changed my whole perspective on life and, you know, who we are. And I. Absolutely. That's one of my favorite books. I mean, I read a lot, but that's my current fave right now.

Oh, I've got to find that one. How about favorite podcast?

I'll find it.

Favorite podcast.

Gosh, so many I've listened to right now. I just listened to Work Party. It was amazing. I love her. I love I Skinny Confidential. I listen to her podcast. I listen to yours. Yours. Yours are amazing.

Awesome.

So, yeah, I say I kind of flip around just to whatever is interesting to me. I mean, there's so much great content out there right now, which you weren't seeing before. So you have so much access to so much great content that I just kind of bounce around to see what. What intrigues me at the moment. And I listen to that.

So true. I just got the Work Party book, and I love following Jacqueline Johnson. And I'm sure you've been to a couple. Create and cultivate events.

I haven't. I would love to go, though. I haven't. I need to go.

Yeah, I know. She just had one in LA not that long ago. One of our team members went to the one that they had in Chicago as well and loved it. So talk to me about fashion, something that we both love. What are your favorite trends at the moment and what you see coming? I know on, you know, west coast, you get to see and experience all of it before those of us in the Midwest. So what's on your radar?

Well, you know, I'm loving the Balinese community right now, so I was here. I'll start. Let's start over again. Sorry about that.

That's okay. Just jump right into your answer.

I'm loving the Balinese community right now. I think it's the next fashion frontier. You're seeing a lot of brands out of Australia that are actually creating and using textiles from Bali, and I feel like that's really big right now. Right now. I feel that they have an edge on what? Where fashion is going because they're able to produce small quantities, they're able to produce hand painted prints, things that you can't find everywhere else that aren't oversaturated. So I feel that a lot of the Australian brands are nailing it right now and that's where my customers going and they're also being exclusive with who they're selling to. So I do appreciate that because I think a lot of times brands make the mistake of overselling to everybody and then people are just over it. It's just, it's done. So when you're selective and where you're actually finding your items, I feel like that actually increases sales and it's more of a long term strategy than it is just your quick dollar.

Ooh, I like it. Drop the mic on that one. That one is so true. Do you have, you know, kind of on that note, because that over saturation happens. Do you have a trend that you wish would die?

Oh my gosh, so many. You know, I always joke it's, I love a good kimono. So I'm not, I'm not, I'm not dissing kimonos, but I mean, I just wish it would be done because I keep thinking it's done and all of a sudden somebody's like, do you have any kimonos? I'm like, I don't have any kimonos, but kind of seen that trend come and go for, I want to say, gosh, it's the boho explosion and I'm pretty done with it personally.

Are you done with boho in general?

I, I, you know, I love me some good boho, some good fringe, but I think, I think the industry is actually shifting into more simple pieces. I think you're going to see a little more structure going forward. I think the Coachella festival girl is now a little bit more refined. She's grown up a little bit. So I think it's actually the industry demanding that we're shifting a little bit on that.

I like that. Okay, fun question. Biggest fear, would it be snakes, payroll or Internet trolls?

Oh, payroll. 100%. Make sure I got, I crossed all my T's, dotted my I's. Yeah. Internet trolls, you can, you can delete people. Snakes, not particular fan, one or the other. So yeah, I would say payroll is always the one that you're like, okay, you know, make sure it's, it's perfect. You have to be on point all the time.

You know, that's the one thing I have to say, even at the boutique hub. Our team has scaled really fast in the last year. And I'm sure you can relate 100% to this. That is the one thing that I didn't realize would keep me up at night so much. Like, you'll wake up in the middle of the night and that's like when all of my worst nightmares like to come and haunt me. And it's like, what if something happens? What if I can't make payroll? Like, what happens to these people? It's so different to feel like you have other people's lives kind of on your shoulders sometimes, doesn't it?

Oh, yeah. And I. A big thing. I always tell my business owners, you're paying everybody first before you pay yourself, because that's the reality of it. You're. You're gonna sacrifice before you make other sacrifice, because that's just what you do in a small business. And especially the more you grow, the bigger your payroll becomes. And you have to really look into that. Like, is this giving me the value of what I need or do I need to be utilizing these funds for other things? So that's something too. That, that's why I said we're looking for that well rounded girl that can kind of do a little bit of everything because she needs to be able to do a little bit of everything in a small boutique if she's getting paid, you know, significantly to be there. So I think that's something important too, that a lot of, a lot of buyers need to, I'm sorry, a lot of owners need to understand is that when you look for somebody you need, you can't hire somebody for social media, you can't hire somebody for merchandising. These are not all separate positions in a small boutique setting. This is all somebody's one position. So you need to find somebody that can at least touch on at least, you know, three out of five. So that's something that we look forward to till still to this day because I don't have a team that can support all these different positions that are different positions in other, you know, corporate settings.

So. Good. So as we're wrapping up our time together today, I have two last questions for you. Sound good?

Yep, sounds great.

All right, so this question I ask everybody on the podcast because I firmly believe that all of us are in business not just for the business's sake, but it's because we all want to serve a greater purpose in the world. Right. And impact people around us. So I'd love to know, as you think about your life and Your business. And you fast forward, you know, many years from now, and you've got grandkids, not just kids now, right? And you look back and you're talking to them about what you created. What is the thing that you would most like them to say about what you've created and the mark that you left on the world around you.

Oh, my gosh, I love that question. I would say it's about character. I always. This is what I go back to. I say, you know, what other people, what other people do, no matter where you are, in what business, doesn't dictate who you are. So I say I leave with character. I can rest my head at night knowing that I've done the right thing. So that's something that's always been super important to me in business, that no matter what, I treat people right, I do the right thing. I try my best. Of course I make mistakes. I'm not perfect, but I try my best to do the right thing. And that. That's something that I want them to feel. And I think it's, you know, running a business like this, it's a challenge, right? It's. There's so many things to learn. It tests your character all the time. Like, you're always feeling like there's something new and even to, you know, last week I learned something new that I didn't know, that I thought I already had under control. So more than anything, you know, operating a business like this and being a leader, I think that's what I want my girls to know and my kids to know and thinking like, wow, she was a leader and she actually could run a team. And there's, you know, she treated everybody with respect and kindness and. And people do want to emulate what she does because she's been so successful at it. So I have to say those are the things that I'd want to be known for more than just even the business. I'd want to be known for those things.

I like it. All right, last question. What is the greatest piece of advice you can give me for a retailer that might be.

I always say, like, the quote I've been leaning on lately has been, you know, for. Especially for young people, young owners or people that are just getting into the industry is that you might. You know, I would say just because you love what you do doesn't. Okay. Just because you love what you do doesn't mean that you'll love everything that you'll have to do. And that really resonates with me because not every day, is it rainbows and butterflies? I mean, there's some hard days. There's some days where I'm just like, oh my gosh, is this going to ever stop? So I always want people to understand that, that you're going to have some really great days and you're going to have some great challenges as an owner of a small business. And that's just really the reality of it. And if you're not prepared for that, it might not be something for you.

That's dynamite advice. Well said. Hey Lisa, thank you so much for spending your time with me today and for sharing the inside of Much so swirl. I know you've built an incredible business that so many people admire and follow, and you're a leader for sharing this with so many other people. So thanks for your time.

Thank you for having me. I've enjoyed my time with you guys, so thank you again.

Hey guys, thank you so much for listening to this episode. We hope that you loved it. Don't forget to hit subscribe. Subscribe and leave a rating and review down below for a chance to be one of our featured listeners each and every week. For more information on our spirit of community over competition and how to access complete show notes and bonus downloads from our guests, head on over to the boutiquehub.com and join the community. We'll see you next week.

Sam.