Grow Your Boutique Business With An Influencer

All right, guys, it's time for episode number 233.

Just in time for all of you Western fashion lovers for the NFR and all things Western. Meet my friend Shaylee Hamm, the founder of the blog the West Desperado. Let's talk about your business strategy and the juicy details of what actually works from mainstream fashion to fashion on Main street and the entire ecosystem behind it. How do we scale your company and do it with the balance and the happiness that we all, all seek? Let's hear from those insiders, experts and strategists that actually make it happen. I'm your host, Ashley Alderson from the.

Boutique Hub, and I can't wait to chat.

Whether you guys love Western fashion or you just love hearing about collaborating with influencers and brands and how to grow your Instagram channel overall, you're in for such a treat today because a good friend of ours at the Boutique Hub, Shaylee Hamm, the founder of West Desperado, a huge Western fashion probably, probably one of the biggest Western fashion Instagram influencers, is joining us on the show today to really dissect what goes on behind the scenes. Creating an Instagram account, the photo shoots, the lifestyle brand that Shaylee's been able to create, all while keeping her day job. As you guys get this, an accountant. How many boring accountants do you know that have a side life, a night job as an Instagram influencer? It's really cool, isn't it? So Shaylee's going to tell you what it takes to collaborate with influencers, the good and the bad experiences that she's had. She's got tons of tips and tricks for you guys today on Instagram and just growing your brand presence, creating more successful collaborations and what it means to really create something unique to your style and how you can stand out when guys, it's really easy to blend in, especially in an industry like we're in today. I know you're going to love this episode with Shalee. She's such an insightful human. It's been amazing to watch her growth and her success. And for those of you who love and appreciate the Western industry as much as I do, we are just moments away from the National Finals Rodeo, which is like the super bowl of the sport of rodeo for those of you not familiar. And really, it's a huge Western fashion event. Honestly, other than festivals like Coachella, really like the big music festival scene as a whole, I don't know of any other style genre that has an event quite like this where fashion is given such a main stage. So, as a part of our collaboration between the boutique hub and also the Western magazine that I co own with our friend Jesse Jarvis and Tiffany Cooper over at Fashion Posse, we're talking about all things Western over on the magazine's channel, Western Runway, including some of this collaboration with Shaley. So if you love Western fashion, make sure you're following Western Runway and you're able to tune in to all the TV segments and the new things that we have happening this year at the nfr. Shaylee, again, who's on the show today, is going to have a huge presence in Vegas. I'm sure she always has some of the coolest, most unique outfits there. So you're definitely going to want to follow her Instagram channel. But today, grab your notebook and let's talk about Instagram and what you need to know about working with influencers.

Hey, guys, welcome back to the podcast. This week we are going to be diving into so many of your commonly asked questions this week, all about two things I know you guys love. Number one, Instagram. Number two, what it's like to work with an influencer. So I have one of my favorite influencers on the show today. I'm so pumped that you're here, you guys. Please help me welcome Ms. Shaylee Hamm, also known as West Desperado.

Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

I'm so pumped you're here.

Yeah. This is exciting. My first podcast and this. I think this is a great one to start out with.

You said you listen to a bunch of podcasts, right?

I do.

So this is the trick. Once you're on a podcast, this is what I find. Anyway, I can never listen to the podcast because hearing my voice freaks me out.

Yeah.

But I know you're gonna rock this.

Okay. Yeah, it'll probably take me a while before I'll be comfortable listening to this one, too. Even when I did an interview for Dallas Market center tv, I still don't think I've actually watched that interview because I didn't want to hear myself talk about it.

Sometimes it's best to, like, leave our best performance in our head and just, like, roll on with life, right?

Exactly.

Oh, my gosh. Well, I've got so many questions for you today, and I know there's lots of people that are listening that have questions, too, so we'll give them a chance to ask questions at the end over on Instagram. But let's start here. Always get the backstory first. So I'm sure most people want to Know, how did you first get your start in quote unquote, being an influencer? And do you even call yourself an influencer?

Okay, so when I started, influencer was definitely not a word that was used. You were either a blogger or just one of those girls that you're just posting their outfits. But there wasn't really a term for us. So I started my page about three years ago. And the reason that I started it was I was going to a few different rodeos. My mom's a barrel racer, and my boyfriend was a bareback rider. And I kind of just started diving into the whole world of Western fashion. There's not that many places where I live that you can really buy that many pieces unless they're super generic or just kind of the big box store brand. And when I was traveling to these rodeos, I was able to start discovering a few different, smaller boutiques that were in the towns we were traveling to. And so I just started putting together fun little outfits, even if it was just for a small rodeo. And I started sharing them. And I got into it pretty early in terms of the Western fashion industry side of things. And so that's kind of where it took off. And again, like I said, influencer wasn't really a thing. So after I'd been doing it for about six months, I was like, well, I have to start a blog. It's just the next step and whatever this thing is that I'm doing. So I did create a website and kind of start a blog. And I don't know, I'm definitely not the best writer out there. So some of the topics I tried to write about were just. I go back and read them and I'm like, this is horrendous. I can't believe I tried to push this out to the public. But it just felt like the natural next step for what I was doing. But then as time went on, these influencers just kind of started popping up and becoming more common. And now you look around and it's almost like everybody's an influencer in some way, which I think is amazing because the social media just opened up a bunch of doors for people to really dive into their passions and share it with the world.

Yeah, isn't that the truth where it's something that's so natural when it starts and it just becomes really its own thing kind of takes on its own life. How did you, like, come to that aha moment where you were like, oh, my gosh, I really have something here?

I think one girls started asking Me where I was purchasing these items, because that wasn't really a big thing that I thought of. It was just I was thinking more big picture, what the outfit looked like on. But then girls would message me saying, where'd you get these shoes? Or where can I find this skirt? Then also ask me what they could wear with a new top that they just bought. And I was like, maybe people think that, you know, my style actually isn't too bad and I can continue this and kind of help girls and feel comfortable with what they're wearing and what they choose to dress up for when they have an event or even just a small town rodeo, like I mentioned. And so I think it was about six months. I feel like that was definitely my tipping point where I started to get some constant messages of girls really wanting to know how I do things, where I shop, all that in between.

How did you decide at that point? Because something I feel like when I look at your pictures now, that sets you apart from everybody, which is so cool, is. I mean, you just have such strong photography. And I know that comes from a lot of awesome collaborations. How did you make the switch from, you know, probably someone just snapping a picture for you.

Yeah.

And you putting on it on Instagram. To this, like, whole new realm you have of these really cool photo shoots.

I definitely started out just kind of on my own. I was pretty fresh out of college, just starting to work, and so I didn't have a big budget to pay photographers. Most of my money was going either into clothes or just my basic living. And so for Christmas one year, I asked for a used camera, and we just found one on Craigslist. And I would just grab whoever was around me to take my picture, even if it was on the camera or on my phone, any way that I could just document what I was wearing. And so that's how it started. And my family members and my boyfriend, I think, are tired of being my photographer. So I started to brainstorm, started to budget and think, okay, how can I step up my game? Because even with them and this DSLR camera or my iPhone, the pictures weren't quite, like, the wow factor that I wanted. And so I started talking to a few photographers, told them my budget, and they were able to work with me. And just since then, after my first photo shoot, I basically became hooked. Like, there's just no comparison to someone who has no idea what they're doing with photography to getting this amazing photo album back from a photographer. The colors are vibrant. There's no blur. If there's any motion. And so since then, I just kind of ran with it. And I know that it's definitely more editorial, some of the stuff I do. And some people prefer more of the lifestyle to see themselves in the outfits, but I think just being able to work creatively with photographer as well is just. It's like an adventure on its own. And so that's definitely a driving force that's kept me going is how much fun I get to have with each production that I get to put on for photo shoots.

Yeah, there's definitely not ever two pieces that are the same or two photos that are the same. I think that's the cool part that keeps people coming back. Right. Is that it's always different.

Yes. People are always wanting new and fresh, and it's definitely something I'll struggle with because it is. It takes a lot of effort to even get just one single photo. And you have to be creatively active, gathering inspiration from all things around you, not just other people that you see doing things. Because you never want to be copying exactly what someone else is doing. You want to be inspired by them, but then put your own twist on it. It's more of just fashion now. It's like, what kind of value am I putting out there? Whether it is creatively, fashionably, or how else can I educate or entertain my followers?

Is there a certain place, like, do you make Pinterest boards? Or where do you find that you get your information? How does that process lay out? And how time does it usually take you while you're gathering inspiration for your next collaboration? Like, what's the time frame between those photo shoots usually?

So I always start out with looking at Pinterest or some saved pictures that I have on my Instagram. And I like to put together a mood board, and that will include everything from poses, backdrops, color schemes. And I'll put that together and try to send that to a photographer every time I'm going to work with them, just so that we're on the same page. Because I found that if I don't do something like that, even if I don't have a whole mood board, if I don't send a picture or two, then we kind of just end up getting there and neither of us really know what to do. And those are always the pictures that I don't love as much as other ones that I put a little bit more time into. As far as time frame, it could be something that takes weeks, depending on what type of idea that we have, or even it could come together in a day or two. But as long as both of us are prepared for what we're trying to make the final outcome be, then all the time that's invested is worth it at the end.

Do you have a favorite photo shoot that you've done so far?

I would have to say one of my recent ones. I did it for my birthday last month and I have seen a couple different pictures of girls using beer can hair rollers and I was like, how can I? I want to try something like that. Kind of make it edgy, western, but still have a little bit of fun with it. So that was definitely one of my favorites. My photographer knocked it out of the park and it was one of the first times we kind of experimented with flash photography. And then I would also have to say earlier this summer, I worked with a photographer where none of the clothing or jewelry or anything we were wearing was sponsored. It was supposed to be for a magazine. I'm not sure if that little small time magazine actually went into production, but I was given a mood board and I just was able to run with it. And so we kind of went with this old West Prairie cowgirl vibe and I was able to put together all my looks and just kind of free reign creatively with that. And so I think that has definitely been one of my favorite photo shoots today also. And also my followers have been responding really well to the photos from it too. So it definitely pays off to make sure that you're happy with what you're putting in and putting out there because it'll come back around and people will like it just as much as you do.

Yeah, I think that's a really good point when it comes to talking about collaborating with boutiques and brands. Right. That was going to be one of my questions for you today is what is your agreement creativity wise when it comes to like choosing outfits and inspiration for the photo shoots? Where do you kind of stand on who picks what and the terms of a contract you might have with a boutique or a brand?

That's definitely something that took me a while to come to terms, to basically realize because when I started it was just people were like, oh, I'd love to send you this X, Y and Z. And I'd be like, okay, great. Because it was just, you know, starry eyed. Oh my gosh, people want to work with me, people want to send me stuff, they want to pay me to do something. And so I was just taking what they gave me because I wanted to make them happy. And I went through A period where I hated everything I was putting out there. I hated all the pictures on my page. I just wanted to delete everything and start over. And it kind of made me realize, like, what was I doing that was making me so unhappy? I started this page for, like, a creative outlet and to make myself just enjoy everything involved with fashion. And so the fact that it was making me unhappy was something that I really had to sit down and, like, figure out with myself. And I happened about that same time, I had a photographer that I worked with for the first time, and she told me, I really like to shoot warm colors. I don't like to shoot pinks and purples. And I thought, whoa, like, you're gonna tell me what clothes to wear. So it kind of took me back and then. But I wanted to trust her vision. So that's what I relayed to the businesses that I was working with for that shoot. I was like, hey, the photographer is just kind of suggesting this. I'm just gonna go with it. And so I kind of restricted what I was accepting and hand selecting a lot more of the items. And that photo shoot, when I got the photos back, I completely understood where she was coming from. And that is how I found my vibe. And so from then on, I've always been pretty strict on what people send me. The colors are a big thing for me because you can have the same photographer over and over again, but if your colors of your clothing or accessories are all over the place, it's going to make your pictures look all over the place. And I like a pretty cohesive aesthetic on my page. And so I try to stick to a similar color scheme. Obviously, I like to stick to western wear, but I also like to put a contemporary twist on things. So if there is something that's a little bit out there, I will think of what kind of fringe or suede or leather pieces of my own that I can pair with that to kind of put a western twist on it.

When you work with boutiques and brands, do you usually put most of that in writing, like, the terms of that collaboration or, like, how long it might take you to post something or how many times you might post something just so there's no, like, unmet expectations on either end?

Yes, I definitely do. And I'm glad you brought this up, because this is something that I've heard so many business owners get burned with because they don't have even influencers as well. They don't have anything in writing. So I make a media kit, and the one that I send to boutiques is a little bit different than ones I send to bigger brands just because usually expectations are a little bit different. So the one that I send to boutiques and accessory makers, it lays out everything from how many items that I'm willing to accept so they don't try to send me 10 different things and want me to do a full blown lookbook photo shoot for them. It explains how soon they will get their photos returned to them from the shoot date. It explains how many posts, both Instagram static posts, Instagram IG posts or sorry, Instagram story posts and Facebook posts they will get for that price. And that's all included. I just try to lay it all out there so there aren't any questions. After boutique owner will look at the media kit, I'll answer any questions from there. I'm trying to get more into using actual contracts. I mean, it definitely will lay out all the same information that I previously put in my media kit, but it'll just be a little bit more clear, concise, make sure we both are on the same page in case there was a gray area that they didn't understand and bring up to me. And I definitely think contracts need to become the norm within the industry. I feel like they can kind of be this daunting thing over people's head. Like, we should do a contract. It doesn't mean that someone doesn't trust you, but everyone's in a business agreement here. So it's just making sure that you're getting what you paid for, what you're investing in and what you're putting your time into and that it's all going to be worth it.

Yeah, definitely agree we should compare notes when this is over. We have a sample contract that we share with all of our boutique owners and we made a blog post about this too on the Hub. So if someone's listening, that's an influencer themselves and they want that information, they can definitely grab it. I'll put it in the show notes, but I'm always refining it based on people's experiences. So we'll have to compare notes and make sure we're sharing something that people can use going forward.

Because I agree.

I've heard horror stories on both ends and it's so important that you get everything in writing.

Yeah, there's been times with both influencers which will be like, I've already taken pictures, I posted them, I sent the product back and they ghosted me and left me with nothing. What can I do? And I'm like, well, do you have a contract? They're like, no. I was like, well, I don't know how much there is you can do if there's nothing flat out in writing that says what you have agreed on.

It's a business arrangement. And I think what's interesting especially has influencing has become so mainstream is that when it first started, boutiques looked at it, or not boutiques, but really anyone in general because everybody and uses influencers. But they looked at it more like, oh, I'll just send them free clothes and they'll post it. Kind of like a freebie. But this is a business too, like West Desperado. That is a business for you. And everyone has to look at it as a mutual business agreement.

Yeah, I think the industry itself is just rapidly changing that. You're exactly right. Where it did used to start out, where businesses could send product to someone and they'd post about it and get a bunch of likes. But now you have to deal with things like the algorithm, how many posts a day you can do, which will then delay how many posts a week you can post and how many posts a month you can post. So you know when we used to be posting three times a day and everyone saw it, so you could literally post three different businesses within one day. You can't do that anymore. The game is changing, the industry is changing and so it's just important to stay up to date and making sure that you're keeping yourself protected so you don't get burned.

Yeah, definitely. Do you find in that process, like especially as the algorithms changed, when you collaborate with a boutique or a brand, do you most often work with them on like a one time basis or do you find it's more successful if you do more of a campaign where like you were saying in your media kit, it's a combination of so many posts and stories so that your followers are like being exposed to that same brand multiple times versus just once.

Yeah, there's definitely a number of businesses and brands that I've worked with that have been one off partnerships. So they want me to just post for them this one time. They'll either pay me or send me product to do so and that's it. Like sometimes I never talk to them again. Not because we don't like each other, but just our business agreement has come to an end and so is our conversation. But I do think that when your followers see and hear you talking about a brand, whether it's paid for, sponsored or not, the more they see you talking about that brand, the more Trust that they're going to have in you to relay the message of that brand. And so I think if you find someone as a business owner, if you find someone, an influencer that you like working with, no matter how many followers they have, a continued relationship is definitely going to pay off. Not necessarily even in the long run, but just way more than these one off partnerships will.

Do you have a best case scenario or favorite collaboration that you've ever had that you would like to share?

Oh my gosh. It's kind of hard to say which one's my favorite because they're all pretty unique. I've had partnerships where I've got to work with the people in person, whether I've flown down to work with them or during the National Finals rodeo when everyone's together and then I got to work with them in person. I would just say I'm going to generalize this because I have a hard time saying just one specific brand or company when the conversation is very open, then those are always going to turn out to be the best. It is a business agreement. But don't be afraid to be a friend to someone also.

Yeah, that's a really good point where it feels a lot more natural that way, I'm sure. Talk to me about Instagram specifically because like you mentioned earlier, in order for a collaboration to work or partnership to work, you have to be really mindful of what your followers are looking for, what's real and authentic to them and what's going to work with Instagram's mood of the day. Right, with the algorithm. So tell me about Instagram's mood today and what do you feel like is working for you right now in terms of the algorithm in post frequency with both stories and then posts on your page?

So this has been an ongoing battle, as most people know. The algorithm changes so much. But something that's really paid off for me is tracking the time of day that my followers are most active. And I used to think it was the first thing in the morning and so I would always just wake up. I'd pre write my captions and everything. So I'd wake up and hit post. And then I worked with a brand that said, no, we're gonna have you post at noon on Monday. And I was like, that's a terrible time to post noon in the middle of the day like that. I don't think that's gonna work. And it was noon Pacific time. So that would have been 2 o' clock in Texas, which is where most of my followers are So I just thought that post was gonna flop, but it happened to do really well. Right off the bat I was like, maybe they're on to something. So I started to pay attention to the times a little bit more closely and well, in fact, noon is a great time to post, at least for my page. And also six o' clock at night and I'm talking all Pacific time zones. So this can change depending on where you are in the country. But those are two pretty good times for myself to post on my page. Another thing to be aware of is how people are interacting and engaging with your content. If somebody is going to comment on your post, you don't want to just like it and move on. You want to either answer the question that they're saying. If they're giving you a compliment, say thank you. Any of this back and forth engagement that you can get on your Instagram post is going to help your post do better all around. When we're talking Instagram stories, I actually just made a post about this today that I've been testing this theory out for the last, I want to say, month and a half, two months where my stories or my take on stories was. I would just post still photos and then type a bunch and have that was my story. People would just have to read it. And I was like, well, when I watch Instagram videos, like I never have the sound on, so I never know what people are saying. So it didn't seem like I bought a thing to me. But I started testing the theory of getting on, being a little bit more active with my face, whether even if I just got done working out and I looked like a train wreck with a bright red face, I would still get on and talk to them. I would put polls and ask them questions and had different ways for them to respond to my questions. And I've noticed over the last month and a half that my engagement or my reach on my stories has gone up 250% just by being more present and more active and I guess overall being more authentic. Because at the end of the day, people want to know that you are a person that's behind this account. You know, it's great, you can have pretty pictures, but what other value can you add to your page overall? And I think stories is such a great way to do that and to actually feel like you know somebody and have them feel like they know you so they want to look at your stories and engage with your posts more often.

Man, you are spot on. I think that is whether I give the Same advice to boutiques all the time, too.

Yeah.

I don't know if you follow Gary Vee, I'm gonna get really excited. This is where I nerd out about things. Follow Gary Vee at all. Okay, well, if you need anyone who drops a good F bomb, it's Gary Vee.

Okay.

And he does like business strategy and motivational things. Anyway, he's awesome. He wrote this book and anyone who's a boutique owner that's been to Summit, you've heard me talk about this book, but it's jab, jab, jab, right hook. And it talks about no one wants to be sold to all the time. Yeah, right. We're all so hungry for authentic relationships and content is the same way. Like, if you're a boutique, you're not just going to post stuff for sale all the time because people are going to tune out. And just like you, you're not going to post these photos all the time. People are going to tune out. They want to have the soft sells. They want to get to know you behind the scenes. So you're totally spot on. That is absolutely what's working with boutiques as well, that strategy. I remember maybe a couple months ago now, seeing I came across one of your stories and just like you said, you were like, you just got done working out and your face was super bright. And I think you even said in your story, I'm kind of embarrassed to share this because it was maybe one of the first times you'd done that. Were you surprised when you share yourself that way, the response that you got.

From people, I think I know exactly when you're talking about, I didn't try to further edit that story. I just hit post. And then after that I was like, oh, my gosh, what did I just do? I did not, you know, I did not just share this to potentially 60,000 people that can see me like that. You know, I don't even let my family see me like that. Most of the times I try to be a little bit presentable, but, you know, I got so many positive responses. Just girls being like, wow, this is so amazing that, you know, you're showing that you have acne or that, you know, you get sweaty or that you don't have all this makeup on all the time. Like, it's just. It really goes a long ways with people and it's something so minuscule for us and we get so embarrassed by it. But think of all the other people that feel the exact same way. So by me posting a story, looking like, that it just kind of opened the doors. Like, oh, okay. She doesn't have these fake eyelashes on all the time with, like, perfect contouring. You know, she's a real human doing the real things that we are every day.

Yeah. Isn't that the truth? If you can do it, I can do it. And that's really what it's all about. It's not about being pretty, quote unquote.

Right.

But it's about making people feel good about the skin that they're in.

Yeah. And I think that's another thing that the way the industry has changed is it did kind of start out with, look at me, look at my clear skin, my nice hair, the cool clothes I'm wearing, the cool places I'm going. And it really has shaped into being a friend for someone almost. I know. Authentic. I feel like it's used so much, but it really is about being authentic and just the different ways that you can add value to people's lives without having to feel like you're being perfect all the time.

Yeah. Do you have, say, like, five or so influencers that you love to follow or accounts that you love to follow on Instagram?

I do, and I feel like each of them serve me differently, and that's kind of why I like following those specific ones. Can I give. I guess I don't know if it really be a shout out because I probably won't listen to this, but one person that has definitely positively influenced the way that I've. My thought process has gone, especially with the Instagram stories and being a little bit, like, raw and real and authentic on them, is officially Quigley. Her name's actually Casey, but she goes by. I think everyone knows her by Quigley. And she always is posting her stories, you know, just her on the couch in the morning. And I was like, if you think she's. And she's like, she posted something one day on her stories was start your day by showing your face on your stories. That was kind of the triggering point for me to make that switch on my own stories. I was like, yeah, people really want to see your face so that they know whose story they're watching and can either decide to continue to keep watching or, you know, to skip to the next one, depending on how they feel about you. But that just completely changed my mindset because when I would just post a picture, whether it be of, like, a handbag that I was wearing, nobody knows whose story they're watching without looking up into the top corner to see. And so by Starting your day by putting your story as the first or your face as the first thing on your story, then that's just the step one of kind of opening all the doors to being more real with your audience.

Any other accounts you want to give a shout out to?

I would say Suzy Shattuck. I think that is her actual Instagram name. She's very active on her stories and she definitely just has an outgoing personality where I catch myself watching her stories and I feel like she's just like I'm talking to a friend or that she's talking with me because she's just so open about her life and what's going on and she's just not afraid to have all those little tiny bars at the top of her story screen. But it's something that is so interesting and you never know what's gonna happen next that you want to keep watching to find out. As far as creative inspiration, I would have to say Tezza. I feel like a lot of people would agree with that one if they knew who Tezza is. As well as Paige Armenta, she's another kind of up and coming. She's grown tremendously this last year because of her creative photos that she posts every day.

You brought up a really good point just a second ago when you were talking about all the little bars at the top of Instagram stories.

Yeah.

Do you think that there's a cap on how many Instagram stories you can post today? Or just like you said, because you're watching to always find out what's happening next because it's interesting. It doesn't matter.

I used to think that there was a cap, like maybe 10, because sometimes you get to someone's story and you see all those little bars and you're like, oh no, like, what am I getting myself into? But if it's engaging content, then it's, you know, I almost wish that there was more stories to keep watching so that I could keep basically that dialogue, that conversation that I have personally with this influencer going. So I think as long as you're giving value, and by value I mean educating, entertaining or inspiring. As long as you're giving value one way, shape or form on your stories, I don't think that there has to be a limit with how many you can post.

Alright, perfect. That makes total sense. When it comes to Instagram. What are some of your favorite apps that you like to use?

My number one favorite app would have to be a scheduling app. It's almost like a game for me. As soon as I get done posting one, I'll go through and delete it and rearrange and see what is going to happen next on my feed. I'm all about the aesthetic and seeing how pictures look next to each other. So I definitely like playing around with that, rearranging upcoming photos that I have in that form. But also it just keeps me so organized because if I know that on a certain day I have to post for a certain brand or I need to post about a different business at least twice within the next week, I can at least reserve the spots on the scheduling app for them and then just kind of rearrange things to make sure that it all flows and fits. But that would be the number one thing I would say to do if you're struggling with what to post. But I have heard that if you're using a third party scheduling app for Instagram to not let it post for you because that might deter your engagement. So even though I use one of those scheduling apps, I will still physically myself go in and type my caption and post it myself. Another app that I like to use is called Spark Post that I will typically use when I want to post stories. So say if there's some style inspiration I wanted to share, but I don't want to share five outfits on five different screens. I want to combine them and it just makes a nice collage. You can rearrange the shapes, sizes and put font over it makes it easy. And then also Lightroom, I do work with photographers so typically they edit my photos for me. But when I do take my own, I like to edit on the mobile Lightroom app.

Perfect. That's super helpful. Are you ready for some Lightning Round questions?

Yeah.

We talked about so much so far. Influencer collaborations, Instagram. Two things with the Lightning round. I have questions. I ask a lot of guests on the show, but I have also have a couple questions that I know are probably commonly asked questions for you that people don't know about you. So number one, we haven't talked about this yet. What is your quote unquote real job during the day?

So I am a 9 to 5 accountant, tax accountant. I also do a little bit of auditing and I feel like that always throws people off when they hear me say that because you don't really see someone you know all over Instagram and be like, oh, I'm actually an accountant. So that's what I do daily.

You usually don't see your accountant with a personality all over Instagram?

Yeah, no, probably not.

Let's Talk about your connection to the NFR and who's qualified for the NFR in your family.

Yes. So I feel like that's a pretty common question. People want to know how you're involved with the Western industry beyond just clothing. And so I am actually from a rodeo family, and even though rodeo is not something I chose to pursue, my mom is an amazing drill racer, and she made IT to the NFR in 2016, which also happened to be the year that I started my page. And so that was my first trip to the NFR as well. And I got to meet a bunch of people that I've been talking to and starting to work with, and that was just an amazing opportunity. But that's. That's how I'm kind of involved in the Western way of life. I've always had horses around, and rodeos are just kind of my jam.

Perfect. All right, third question. Your hair. Is it real or is it an extension?

My hair is all real, and there are countless days that I want to just chop it off. But I think of all the girls that spend so much time and money into getting hair that looks like mine that I can't talk myself into it. But I've been growing it for. It's been at least eight years, and I get a haircut once a year.

Oh, my gosh, think of the money I could save. That's amazing.

I know. I was talking to my hairdresser the other day, and she's like, are you ready for your annual appointment?

As long as it's that kind of annual appointment at the hairdresser, I will take it.

Yeah.

All right. Favorite trend at the moment?

I am really into square neck tops with, like, kind of the billowy, poofy sleeves. Not overly dramatic, but I don't know. Even when the sleeve kind of falls off the shoulder. But just like, that square neckline with the poofy sleeve has, like, the structure and the volume, and I think those look good on pretty much anyone I've seen wear them.

Do you mean, like, poofy sleeve by, like, at the shoulder or at the.

Like, bottom of the sleeve at the shoulder?

Okay, gotcha.

Or it could be the whole sleeves.

Yeah, I've seen some really cool, like.

Dramatic ones, even, that are, like, lace.

Or different texture than, like, the body of the top.

Ye.

How about your least favorite trend at the moment?

You know, it is a hard one, because I like to say, if it's something that you feel good wearing, then go ahead and wear it. But I'm kind of over Serape. I know that that's a Western favorite.

But it kind of had its day.

Yeah, I think it kind of had its day and it got a little bit too crazy for me and I'm kind of toning back on that.

Perfect. Favorite podcast you listen to.

My favorite podcast would have to be the Influencer podcast by Julie Solomon.

Perfect.

Lots of great topics for people that are wanting to be influencers or just running an Instagram business.

Very cool. How about favorite book? Do you read or do you do Audible? And then what's your favorite book?

I read and one of my favorite books that I've read recently, I feel like everything I do relates to Instagram. But what was it called? It's been one that I've been picking up and putting down for like a year now, but called Influence. Influence, like how to grow your following, which sounds super nerdy.

I thought you were going to say, like, Instagram for dummies or something. I'm just kidding. Have they made that one yet?

I don't know.

I'm sure you've dealt with this at some point. When you start, whether it's on Instagram or start a business, there's always doubt, right? There's self doubt and then there's dealing with doubters, and then there's dealing with Internet trolls. Like three kinds of things you deal with. When you come across those instances, how do you process that and what have you learned from those situations?

When you come across the people that don't see any good in what you're doing, I think the worst thing you can do is responding right away. Because a lot of times you're thinking, not necessarily irrationally, but you're kind of frustrated and you want to just prove your point to them and tell them that they're wrong. And then it just becomes this big argument. And that's exactly what entices them to keep doing something like that. So I. If it's a comment, I will just try to delete it and move on. And, you know, I'll think about what they said to me and if it's something that I can change, then I'll try to, you know, think of their point of view and what I'm doing. But if it's something just rude that they're saying I have an ugly face, or, you know, like, obviously their opinions.

People say that kind of crap to you? That's unbelievable.

No, not really, but I've seen it happen. But I've been pretty lucky to not have too many trolls on my page only occasionally and nothing super negative has been dished my way. So but I think if it's something like super irrelevant then just delete it, move on. If it's something that you might have said, done or posted think about the way that it could have affected them and try to see their side. But there's no time for haters on the space. People like to be keyboard warriors and you know just delete them, block on and move on.

Are there any would you say quote unquote like I hate to say the word failures but I would say lessons like biggest lessons that you've learned in this process that you are glad that happened at the end of the day.

Yeah and I think that my biggest lesson learned would just be on how I operate my business. You know the influencer space can be one without a lot of guidelines especially people don't realize how much of a business it actually is. So these bills will start.