Mastering Leadership: The Evolution of a Multi-Generational Boot Company

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Business can be a lonely game, but it doesn't have to be. Welcome to Boutique Chat, where we explore community over competition and how to scale your company with the balance and the happiness that we all seek. We'll hear from product based businesses of all types, retailers, e commerce and wholesale brands, along with industry experts shaping the future of our industry. I'm your host, Ashley Alderson from the Boutique Hub and I can't wait to chat. Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast. We get a two for one this week. I love it so much when there gets to be couples on the podcast and this happens to be a couple that I just think the world of. Ryan and Jody, thanks so much for being on the podcast with me today.

We're happy to be here. Ashley, thanks for inviting us.

So our paths crossed in the wildest of ways. We were in this, I'll call it like couples Mastermind week of sorts that we had the opportunity to go on. We didn't know anyone really when we were invited to this event, but we quickly got to know one another. And Eric and I both just had such a great time with the two of you and found that our values were just aligned in so many different ways. And of course we share the western industry. So to just get to share your story today, I'm so excited for what everyone's going to get to listen to.

Thanks. We too really enjoy getting to know you guys and look forward to more times together and fun things and especially as many markets as you go to. Hopefully we get to get to continue hanging out with you and get to know your kids. We're excited.

Yeah, absolutely. So let's get into it. If anyone has not, you know, met the two of you yet or been familiar with, you know, the multiple companies that you guys, multiple brands that you guys operate with, give me a quick rundown, a little family history of where the company's so started and expanded and where you're at today.

Well, I see Brian tossing it over to me, but honestly, he gives a better history than I do. But I'll start. The Rios and Mercedes brand is our parent and that started back in the, in the 1800s, actually in Mexico with the Rios family. And they brought it to the, to the Rio Grande Valley, the border here at the turn of the century. And they were making cowboy boots. First they were making for the Mexican calvary and then as they moved up here, they started making for the settlers here in the Rio Grande Valley. It's called Rios of Mercedes because there were two brothers, one who Settled in Raymondville, Rios of Raymondville. And then one who settled here in Mercedes, Rios of Mercedes. So that's pretty simplistic way to name the business. But anyway, my dad and my granddad had the opportunity to buy the company in the early 1970s and thankfully Ryan had an interest in it. And when we got married in the late 90s, we moved home and Ryan came to work in here and we started the Anderson Bean. Actually, we started that right before you got here. Yeah, the Anderson Bean brand, which we're known for. And that's named after my great grandmother and my great great grandmother's maiden names. So. Sorry. My grandmother and my great grandmother. So Helen Anderson and Macy Bean. And my dad named it for them because he wanted to acknowledge all the work they had done. My family was a ranching family out in West Texas. West Texas. We Mexico line. And you know, the guys would go out and hunt and have these great cool dogs and get these great bears and all these things, these wonderful things. You know, they show. Not show cattle, but the, you know, the bulls that were not just the guys had all the glory. And meanwhile the women were back home at the house taking care of the kids, making sure things were running when the guys were gone. And they just, they didn't get any of that glory. So he wanted to name it that as a little tribute to them. So that, that's our Anderson Bean brand. And that was started in the. In the late 80s. And then. And then once Brian got here, we started the Horsepower and Macy Bean brands. And you can speak more to that because that was. That was your baby. Don't guys. He's a great speaker. I'm gonna let him.

Yeah. Well, my, my first big project is we bought the Olathe Boot Company out of Olathe, Kansas in 2001. I started in 1999 and Seattle. I thought I liked snow and ice and cold weather. I like it when we go snow skiing, but not working in it. See, I moved up to Kansas in February and had to go. Go through and move everything home. We just built this new factory. So we're office in the Anderson Veno lathe factory here in Mercedes, Texas. And so we just built this factory at capacity. So we bought the Olathe brand and business and moved it down here. And that has roots to the old hire boot company that's started in 1875 in Olathe. They used to all go up there and Texas cowboys would run cattle up there and sell them in the stockyards and they go out to Olathe and get some higher boots. And so they used to just kind of call it the old Lake of boots. And, and so, yeah, until just a few years ago, hire had been defunct name that kind of went out. But anyway, they're back. But yeah, so we've got, domestically we make Rios of Mercedes and then Anderson Bean and Olathe in this factory. And then, yeah, in 2005, we started it. That was really the boom of the square toe business for us. So we were kind of one of the first ones on the scene, or were the first one on the scene making a wide square toe. And we saw a lot of other people start and kind of knock us off and so said, you know what, we can do it better than you can. So we went down to Mexico, down to Leon, and started a Horsepower brand. Very similar styling, just a little bit more basic construction, better price point. And then we, a few years later, we started the Macy Bean brand. So Macy Bean and Horsepower are the two brands we build down in Mexico. And then we have kids line that follow as well. So that's the family of brands.

That's the family of brands. See daddy do a much better job. I just, I could listen to him talk all day off.

Well, I laugh because I think through like the boots that are in my husband and I's closet and I'm pretty sure we've got one of each. Literally, like my husband's an old bareback rider, so of course he's got some of the old Olathe boots, you know, the whole, the whole deal with the heel and everything. So, Nan, just thinking about all that family history and just like generational change and keeping the traditions, talk to me about like making a multi generational business. I'm sure, Jodi, the lessons and stories your family has and Ryan, you stepping in and taking over, how does your family maintain, you know, its relationships and keep all of that heritage and history as those changes take place?

It is a piece of cake. No, I, I mean, I, I'll, I'll start off with, I mean, the night. The nice thing is, is that Jody grew up with it and so she, she knew the sacrifices. She saw the sacrifices that her dad put in. I mean, the, the, the 80s and 90s, especially the 80s, it was not an easy time to keep a business open down here in the Rio Grande Valley. So we're right along the border of Mexico and, and we had some freezes. So a lot of our, A lot of our industry down here is farming and ranching and we've Got a lot of citrus farming and a lot of vegetable farming and we had some really devastating freezes in the 80s and the savings and loan crisis that went on, I mean it was really hard to get money and financing. And then we had a pesto devaluation across from Mexico which just really hurt our economy down here. And so you know the trainer, my father in law, her dad put in, I mean really hard work and so she, she knew what it took to, to be in a family business. I grew up in a family business as well. My family's got a chain of auto parts, auto industrial parts stores down here. So you just, you, you, you realize is that it's, it's not all, you know, shiny and pretty and so whenever I joined the company, I mean I very similar work ethic to my father in law and we've got a lot in common. But while she was holding the fort down raising kids, I mean I was traveling, I was on the road, I was putting in long hours and I didn't get a lot of grief for that. You know, she was really supportive supportive and knew that we were building a bigger thing and so that, that part of it is really reassuring. I, I see some of our, you know, my brother in laws come into the business and he's starting a family and you know thankfully his wife comes from a family business too. But it's, it's a sacrifice to be a part of this and, and I think we both get it and thankfully our kids are getting to see a lot of that too and have interest in it. But yeah, it's not without the challenges. I mean my, my brother in law does our finances, she runs all of marketing and I'm the chief executive officer but I 25 years here with purchasing and day in out and day out operations and managing bonuses and dividends and when we're going to do financial review our financials each month, I mean there's always challenges and so to your point.

Yes, there's a lot of sacrifices that come with it but there's also huge blessings when you're doing something you love with people you love. And that's so, that's so fun for me to get to do with Ryan and then for our kids to see that. And I mean like any, any family vacation we take is it work is somehow work related and it's always fun and we have a great time. It's just, it's what our family does together. And so I think that's, yeah, that's a huge blessing.

Obviously didn't mean to focus on the challenging.

No, but. And then another.

But it's true.

Yeah. And another really cool thing is how well. And you. But how well Ryan and my dad get along. Like, I mean, what greater thing is that than to have somebody marry into your family and just, just be absorbed by it and be loved in the same way? So I just, I'm so thankful for that.

I think what's interesting specifically in the western industry, if I, if I think on the retail side of the western industry, you know, the traditional western store in America is at a real turning point where they need to make a generational change. There's a lot of older owners that's going to move to another generation. And that's tricky. And so I'm curious for those who are listening, what advice do you guys have? You know, things that you've done that you would say, hey, this is something that worked for us to maintain relationships and to maintain boundaries and to maintain some processes that kept our sanity through, you know, through all this growth over time. And what are some things just to watch out for? Like, hey, just. This is something that's off limits.

Yeah. I mean, I think the first thing is just be extremely obedient to your father in law.

Okay, so he's only half kidding, but I will have him share when he first got here. I mean, you know, Ryan, he's super dynamic. I got all these great ideas and just ready to jump in with both feet. And he got here and my dad has a partner who's the same age and they were set in their ways. And so it took Ryan a while to learn how to bring ideas to the table without just throwing them out there and getting shot down immediately.

Oh, that's, that's.

I mean, yes, obedience is part of it, but then you also have to, well, you can you share because it's your experience. But.

Oh, yeah, no, I mean, I'm fresh out of college. I thought I, you know, conquered the world and had all these great ideas. I was going to bring these factories, new life and new business and all kinds of things. And I'd go to lunch every day with these guys and yeah, it was, I throw up an idea and it was, you know, they just shoot it down left and right. And I started realizing that trainer always came at it from a. How are we going to build it? How much is it going to cost? What is the, you know, what's the, the, the inputs. What's the fixed, fixed, you know, leather yields and things. How are we going to do this? And Pat would come at it from a sales and, and you know, how are we going to market it? How are we going to get it to our sales team? How are we going to inventory it? And so it was having to understand the two dynamics of what those, what they needed to see from my, my, my suggestions or ideas. And I, you know, I've, since I've learned that it kind of made me a better salesperson too. But just understanding, respecting the foundation that's been laid I think is also, I mean I talked about keeping a business open in the 80s and 90s is they put a lot of hard work in to give us the opportunity to take this business over. So that level of respect I think is this the starting point and then just trying to refine some of the things that they built and have done. And so you know it's, we do a lot of very traditional things in a handmade boot company. But I, you know, we also, you know they said they'd be rolling over their gray before we ever put a cushion insole in our boots. But we had, we had to change, we had to, we had to improve. I mean, you know, one of the things that Ariat brought to the industry was tennis shoe comfort. And so you know, having the right approach to approach that with, you know, the family members of, you know, this is going to be a little different. We've got to go this way out. But I think, I think having a humble attitude of not being the smartest one in the room I think is also, you know, my brother in law is tremendously smart in the finances side of things. But he, you know, I'm, I'm on the, on the leather side of things and Jody brings a whole different perspective of she sees a lot of stuff that goes on outside the industry. And so even though I'm, I've been here for the 25 year, you know, on the I, I totally respect them and the great skill set that they bring to.

Wow. So yeah. And just to reiterate so to be respectful of the foundation that you've been offered or been given and then to do your homework before you jump in with these which Ryan's great at doing homework now like before he presents anything, he looks at it this way, that way, the other and he can always give like a really well presented argument now. So yeah.

Would you consider that servant leadership like it sounds as I'm hearing both of you speak and I hear like all the different angles your family brings to the table and the humility that's Involved. It's really like you being a servant in order to lead. It's not you leading from the front and telling everyone what we're going to do, but it's really leading from behind. Would you agree with that?

I think Ryan's an excellent example of servant leadership, like all the time. And was it. He's real good about learning, too. And so he just took us to a thing. And the owner of the Savannah Bananas, Jesse Cole, I think one of the things he said is that your employees don't work for you, you work for them. And Ryan does that. He works for this company and these employees, and he's a great example of how to do it well and in a glorifying way to God. I mean, that's what we're here for.

No, we've just been the good shepherd. I heard a good shepherd, Emily, the other day, a sermon and was talking about the good shepherd is always out in front leading his sheep. But if he just keeps walking and walking and as in the middle of the sheep, the sheep won't trust him and know him. And so you've got to lead from front, but you've also got to be in the sheep. You've got to smell like the sheep. You've got to be in the middle of it. And then the shepherd also sometimes has to push from behind. And so I think there's different approaches to leadership. And sometimes you need to be the. The strong CEO out in front, and sometimes you need to be on the ground and at the market, selling and working. And then sometimes you need to be behind pushing. And so I think there's, there's different, different times for different types of leadership, too. But absolutely, it's, you know, our number one core value is we're going to honor God and all that we do. And I mean, we, you know, the greatest example of God is Jesus that came. Came down to teach how to live and love and serve. And so, yeah, he obviously was. Was the epitome of a servant leader.

So. Good. Well, I have this theory, and you're speaking right to this theory that I have about the idea that as a leader, most leaders start as entrepreneurs in this business. Say a leader in business starts as an entrepreneur. But in order to be successful, you can't just stay an entrepreneur forever. You can't just stay a hustler forever. You have to transition and be a true CEO of your business as well. And those are two very different things. As I have gotten to know the two of you, I see those qualities in you it's not just about chasing what's next or doing things on a whim or just being better today than you were yesterday. But you guys are so well thought out when it comes to, again, your core values, long term vision, systems, processes, strategy, like real leadership. What do you think you've learned the difference between being an entrepreneur and being a CEO would be? And how do you think those in your industry or the retailers that you work with can also learn some of those same lessons of how to be not just an entrepreneur, but a true CEO? What does that mean?

Yeah, I mean, one of the core values is focused on healthy growth and creativity. And I think the healthy growth side of things is really important to us. I mean, obviously we've been around for a long time, our brands and then, you know, my father doing this for 50 years and we've been doing this for 25 together, and we don't plan to go anywhere. And we want our kids to come into the business. And so I think it's having that, you know, that March approach is like, we're, let's, we're going to do this methodically, we're going to do this well. We're going to build the team, we're going to find the right people to get on the bus. We don't need to go 0 to 60 in a year and a half and, and double our profits and set ourselves up to, you know, bring in private equity money. And so I think that just a different approach is let's do this right and let's do this healthy. And especially, I mean, when people don't buy our boots because they're fast. I mean, they buy them because the quality, I mean, you don't get them fast. I mean, we're 14 months out on delivery for our domestic boots. We need to do things right. And so whenever we, you know, that was one of the things during COVID you know, we picked up a lot of shelf space and our business just went through the roof. And we came back home and we tried to put in a second shift. We tried to go, you know, we need to hire 50, 60 people. We hired a new human resource director. We've got to find people, we've got to find bodies. And we started churning out junk. I mean, we were rejecting boots left and right. We were canceling things. We, I mean, it was, it was really a lesson to go, look, slow it down, focus on quality. Let's not go too fast. And I mean, I think that's the approach that is sometimes not always taken from, from an entrepreneur. They want to go to the, you know, shoot to the moon and have somebody swoop in and buy them for, you know, 10 times, you know, so it's. I don't know. Is that.

No, I think so. Yeah. We're in it for the long haul, so you have to, you have to put systems in place to make that sustainable. Yeah.

And then I, I would just. We did a little. We've got 220 employees here in our Texas factories and over. I think we've got 63 people that have been with us over 10 years. I think we've got 34 that have been with us for 25 years or more. I mean, so we've got people that have been like, it's, it's. You find the right people, you put them in the right place and they thrive. And so building that team is really core. We just had a young lady in our, in our accounting department celebrate 20 years anyway and just seemed like yesterday, but, you know, you got to find the right pieces for that leadership team.

Yeah. What else does it mean to lead a team like that? What keeps them there? They've been there, but what keeps them there? What is it that you do on a daily basis that makes that possible?

Hmm. You know, that's. I'm going to say, making sure they're in the right spot. I mean, they need to enjoy coming to work every day. And that's one of my. I want to say it's one of my strengths. It's one of my biggest weaknesses as well as a leader, is that I think I'm such a good manager, a good leader, that I can always find a spot for somebody in our company. And sometimes it's caused me to hold on too long to somebody whenever that really wasn't the right fit. I know you talk about culture. I just listened to your 5 minute Friday on about culture. And sometimes the culture is not right. And so I think building that culture and finding the right spot. I mean, the young lady, Amanda that I was just talking about, I mean, I'd say it if she was here. We had her in customer service for four or five years. She was the worst on the phone. She did not like to talk to customers, but, man, she can do data entry, she can do invoicing. I mean, she can crunch the numbers. And so it took a little while to put her in that right spot. But I really think Amanda loves coming to work every day. And she's, she's got a great team over there. And so I think that's really important is using that skill set that makes you excited to come to work and thriving.

Yeah. So good. What's been the hardest lesson that the both of you have learned in terms of leadership? What's been a moment where you feel like you got punched in the gut, but, boy, you learned a lot from that moment as a leader?

Yeah. I don't know.

Happens every day.

I was going to say, you want.

The one from this morning?

Let's hear it.

Oh, man. I, I think the biggest. I don't know about a big. I think a lot of time, I just think we, We. We put systems in place that we think are going to continue to work without monitoring and revisiting and, and having that. Okay, we need to go back and see how we're handling cancellations or credits or how are we service. We said we were going to service this customer a certain way. I told them the market, that this is the way it was going to be. I came back home and rallied the troops and said, this is what we're going to do. This is how we're going to do it. And then six months later, we're not doing it anymore. And that you get called to the carpet from that customer. And so that's one of the ones that's fresh on my mind. Because if I'm going to make a promise and then I'm going to put our team in the motion to do it, I can't just step away from it. I need to continue to leave and make sure we're getting those things done. So I've probably got 15 more I can come up with quick.

I think that's a good one. And you know, what's interesting is I heard so many stores during COVID especially, I think that was really a ripe time for people where they were forced to go back and to revisit the systems and processes that they once were a part of, but now have. You know, they're trying to delegate and elevate and truly be a CEO and a leader, and they've stepped away from those things. And when they got back into the weeds a little bit more, they were like, oh, we have so much opportunity to optimize and to work a lot smarter versus a lot harder. And so that's. That's a humbling fact of leadership is having to be forced back into those situations.

Yeah, no, no, you're right. And that's, that's. There's. There's. Again, you don't want to be out in front. You've got to get in the middle. And you got to get in the sheet. In the middle of the sheet sometimes. And it's a good reminder. Sometimes you need that punch in the gut to go, yeah, okay, time to get back in the. Get my hands dirty again.

Right. So something that you talked about that you guys are really great at is innovation. So how do you balance your mindset and mantra of like, steady Eddie, knowing this is what we do really well, but also you want to be the ones who are out front innovating and leading, like you said, with the square toes. What is the balance of your ability to take risk and innovate with also just really maintaining who you are as a company?

Well, I hope you'll speak to it, but I think the way we know what's next or the way we learn what should be next is from our retailers. So we mostly sell to small mom and pop shops. And so the way our domestic brands work are they come and design what they want specifically for their store. And so they say, hey, we've got these rodeo kids coming in. They keep asking for, you know, bright electric blue whatever. And so can we draw something up like that? And so we start from there. And you can share more about this because you've been doing it so long with, working with the retailers. But anyway, that's where we learn what's coming around the bend is from these small shops. And then we are able to make something, a unique product for them. It's ordered just for their store so they can go sell it, get the great margins. Nobody can price shop them online. You know, the guy down the street isn't going to have it. And so. So anyway, it's. It makes us, I hope, a great partner to them. Definitely makes. Makes them a great partner to us because we're learning from them what's popular and what, you know, what, what is next.

So nailed it. That's. I mean, I. I've always thought I was a pretty poor listener. And we had this guy come into a. He was writing this book, and after he did an interview, he said, I just realized the secret to your business. You're a great listener. And I was like, huh?

I wasn't there for that.

I was like, Jody's like, wait a minute.

He goes, you guys are always listening to what your customer's asking for. And. And so that's, you know, our. With leather suppliers will come and they'll say, like, I need to meet with your design team and how are we going to develop new stuff? And it's like, well, we've got 750 people, you know, retailers that are our design team. And so that's one of the great things about you know, markets is going with fresh new leathers and trying to show things quickly and we you know, hit the market quick. I mean the 14 month delivery really hurt hampers that ability. But getting new samples out there, getting new leather developments and new trope profiles and I mean one of the, you know, the things is being on again on the ground floor. I mean like the WRCA finals Working Ranch Cowboy association on Amarillo. If you guys have never been to that, it is a hoot. But those are the, those are the sure enough working cowboys and they've got a whole exhibit there. I mean the whole exhibit hall is handmade stuff. So it made saddles, bits, stirrups, boots, I mean hats and so it's not cheap stuff, it's good stuff. And so but those guys are going to go have custom made what they can't find on the shelf or what they're not what they don't, you know, they don't want what's maybe at the store on the shelf they go get it custom made and so you see where trends are made there. And so it's watching and learning the real cowboys and if you can outfit those guys then you can outfit anybody. And and so you know, it's just that's you know, the core of our business. Our customer in domestic side is his cutting horse is reigning horses rain cow horse guys and if you can build a boot good enough for them then you go do the fun styles and stuff. So it starts with that integrity inside. Yeah, I mean she's also really good at design stuff. So I don't, I. It's one thing is to take and listen to our customers but she can put a main stitch pattern together and she can put color combinations and sightseam and trim. And we've got, we've got a few retailers that are really good at it and so you kind of watch and learn what they're doing. And so it's one thing to have the platform, it's another thing to be able to put color combinations together.

Well, like I was saying, I don't know if that was clear but our domestic, so the stuff we build here in the States that's made for order for each retailer. Our stuff that we make in Mexico, so our horsepower and Macy Bean lines, that stuff that we put together and we stock and so that's available for people to buy, you know, as is. So that's a sweet compliment. Thank you.

Are you ready to participate in Pink Friday 2024? This is your official invitation. I hope you join us to shop small first and promote your store. Whether you're online or you have a beautiful brick and mortar that you want to really tell your story about. Why to shop small first this holiday season, November 22, 2024 is the Friday before Black Friday. And annually, every single year on Pink Friday, we join together to promote this idea of shopping small first before Black Friday, before the big box stores. You know, I love small business Saturday and I just hate that it comes after Black Friday. It's an afterthought. That's why Pink Friday again is always the weekend before Black Friday. So join us Sunday. Sign up to promote your store to be on our shop Small first map and receive all of the ideas, toolkits, stickers, window clings, graphics, anything you can use to set up an event in your community or to promote your online business on Pink Friday, November 22, 2024. Link is in the show notes. Be sure to sign up. It's completely free to promote your business on Pink Friday. So I've got a big question for you both as you're thinking about trends that are coming and innovating. How much does Beyonce impact your business this year?

I mean, we'll see. We love it. The more people in cowboy boots, the better. So we're see where this trend takes us. You know, Brian shares all the time that it's great to get somebody who probably wouldn't have worn boots into them. And then, you know, they start with the basic and maybe enjoy it so they move up to, you know, something a little nicer and eventually maybe they're in our boots. So anyway, yeah, I'm here for it.

No, I mean, I think that my hope is that the draw will be what comes with the western industry. And that's a lot of its integrity and doing things the right way and, you know, remembering how grandpa did it or dad did it. And there's the, you know, that draw, hopefully is when you put your boots or your hat on, you feel good, you feel tough, you feel like the west, like you can go, go do something that maybe you didn't think you could do before. And, and hopefully that's what people will do. I mean, that was a lot of the, the to covis business model was getting people who are in cities in New York or Nashville or Houston into cowboy boots. And I think people put on their boots and go, wow, I like the way this feels. I Remember how granddad looked in his boots? And hopefully they want to embrace all that comes with that western lifestyle.

Yeah, I love that. I couldn't agree more. You know what's interesting, I love, you know, you guys are in Texas, you're in the heart of cowboy country. And I know I've shared this with you personally, but growing up on a ranch, being, you know, deeply ingrained in that lifestyle myself, but now living in a state that it's not that common, I commonly, my golf friends, right, are not rodeo people, but my golf friends will send me pictures of their outfits of cowboy boots and the most God awful cowboy hats. I hope they're not listening, but I'm telling you, they're really ugly and they're.

Like, what do you think?

Like, I'm just like you and I'm like, oh no you're not. But it's really cool that you want to be. And something that's interesting about the western way of life is I know I was kind of raised with this idea of like what's real versus what's a wannabe. And I think if there's ever been a lesson I've learned from this whole Beyonce movement is we've got to embrace the wannabe. We've got to embrace the person who wants to be of a, of this culture. Like, what a blessing that is, what an opportunity it is not just for the product and for the sale, but like you said, Ryan, for the integrity and the culture and the way of life that we represent. Why wouldn't we welcome all of those people with open arms to have an.

Opportunity to be a part of that?

So I love that perspective. That's so good. How about this relates to, you know, our motto at the boutique hub is community over competition. So how does the western industry also live that motto of not only being more welcoming today, but but also collaborating more with one another and allowing a rising tide to lift all ships with the popularity of Western today.

Yeah, I mean, one of the first things that pops into my mind is how important the Dallas Market center has become for us getting, getting our retailers together on a regular basis. You know, Denver market was good. We had some market in January and one in August. Boy, that market center is such a phenomenal facility. Facility. And I think it's really helped bring our retailers, I mean, and we take a lot of pride in our showroom that retailers want to come and hang out and not just for a sandwich or a beer or whatever, the energy in there. And hopefully we'll draw it, but we See our retailers where they're actually like working together and helping, you know, one of our retailers in Lubbock, sitting with one that's in Shawnee, Oklahoma and helping them style up some boots and they're talking through toe profiles and stuff. And I think we've got a really loyal fan base that buys our boots and we're very selective who we do business with. I mean it's. And so you've gotta, you've gotta do the right things and be a good partner all the way through. And I think when you get like minded partners together they start really enjoying being around each other. And you brought up the Masterminds at the beginning. For probably about 10 years now we've had a group called Masterminds and we, we brought in some of our better closer partners for some collaborating and trying to figure out where we need to be going, where things are going in the industry. And so I think there's a little bit more of a common bond in the western industry where people don't feel like they've got to fight it out. But I think that transfers a lot to when you're working hard and running boutiques and doing things the right way. You start running with like minded defense.

Yeah. You mentioned this earlier and I'm not sure, I think we maybe were visiting before we started to record but you said if I can get someone in a pair of boots then there's a better chance they're going to buy a pair of western jeans and then there's a better chance they're going to buy a cowboy hat. Tell me more about that philosophy as well because that's really community over competition as well.

Yeah, I mean I think that the, again going back to the, you know, bringing non western people into it is. It's hard to look good and just put a pair of boots on with a pair of shorts. No, you need to do jeans, you need to do a hat, you need to do a starch and all of a sudden you start wanting to do more of that and really embracing it. But I, I don't know, I'm not sure exactly, exactly where hopefully that goes bleeds from retailer to retailer. I mean if you're shopping at a boot barn and don't find what you need, then you're going to go to the local mom and pop and, and hopefully find some good stuff there too.

And the great thing about the mom and pop stores is that they've got the people there that will help you. This is how you do this. This is how you how this goes together and that sort of thing. So I think that to your point, the boots, the jeans, they can build on your outfit for you.

Yeah, absolutely. When you look across your most successful mom and pops that you guys serve, what do you see that they have in common and where do you think their business is going next?

Service is key. I mean, I think that's one of the things that you can outdo any chain store. Typically when you're a mom and pop, you've been there two, three generations, people know you in the community, You've obviously built enough trust for them to come back and shop with you. But I think, yeah, fitting understanding what the customer is asking for. You know, I love that. I think on your. Your thing is the worst thing you can say is, is there anything you're looking for? You know, and that's the easiest. No, it's. No, you've got to go deeper. You got to compliment them, and you've got to build a rapport with that customer and draw them in. And then, you know, then once you sell them one thing, you're going to see them at church, you're going to see them at the restaurant, and they're going to say, hey, Joe, you sold me these boots. They're junk. They're falling apart. You know, I'm never going back to your store. No, you build up inside. You're building a long relationship with your customer base. And I hate to say just with your mom and pops, but, I mean, I think that's especially true. There's a service side of things. But not being oblivious to. I mean, some of our best retailers have gone to online sales during COVID and it's like another store for them now. So not being oblivious to what's able to grow your business, too. I think that's the. The dynamics of a family business. I mean, one of our favorite retailers up in Kansas City, Niagara's Western store, I mean, they're three, four generations into it. And little David took this family on, took that business online during COVID and it's. It's exploding. They're doing great business with it. We could have easily been rejected and said, no, we're not going to invest the money on it. But I think that's. You've got to. You've got to not be. You got to be open to looking at new ways of approaching business. I mean, point of purchase sales. I was just at our hardware store local. They're still writing out invoices by hand. I mean, I bought a couple packs of batteries and a thing of.