Text Message Marketing Mastery with Jane Kasper Cochrane

Okay. Do you ever wake up with things in business that just frighten you, Things that are probably totally out of your control, but they keep you up at night? I don't mean to scare you, but sometimes the change in law and regulation around some of the common activities we do in business, like text marketing or email marketing, is enough to make me sweat. So today, I'm really pumped that my friend Jane Casper, not only the founder of Glow Group and an email marketing expert, but a boutique owner herself, is back on the podcast for the second time. But today to talk about something really important, and that's your text message market, text message marketing strategy, but also changes in regulations that we all need to be aware of to make sure we're protecting the longevity of our business. Jane is not only a longtime member of the Hub and a part of our mastermind, but also a speaker at the Boutique Summit and in past, a speaker at Western Summit. I really value the background, the research, and the knowledge that Jane brings to this conversation and every conversation that she's a part of on the business marketing topic. She's super analytical and she knows her stuff. So let's talk about some of those tricky things that keep you up at night, changes in regulation in text message marketing, and some of the other marketing channels in your business. Meet my friend, Jane Casper. Let's talk about your business strategy and the juicy details of what actually works from mainstream fashion to fashion on Main street and the entire ecosystem behind it. How do we scale your and do it with the balance and the happiness that we all seek? Let's hear from those insiders, experts, and strategists that actually make it happen. I'm your host, Ashley Alderson from the Boutique Hub, and I can't wait to chat.

Hey, guys.

Welcome back to the podcast. This week, it is time for a repeat guest. I don't think we get repeat guests very often, so thanks for saying yes to coming back again. We could just sit and tell jokes for this whole repeat interview. Does that sound good, Jane?

I have a lot of personalities, so that's why I got to come back.

I think I said this the last time you were on the podcast, but I'm pretty sure the first time you and I actually met in person was at Western Summit and you sent me a bio as a joke, and then I read the joke bio when I interviewed you or introduced you on stage. That was not meant to be shared with the public, but that's what I used to introduce you. I feel like we got off on the right foot. Right away.

I was so sweaty after you did that because I got like nervous. But you know, you can't outwardly express it. You kind of just, you like, pheromones take over. And yeah, every time I see a picture of me on that stage, all I think is like.

My armpits were sweaty. Perfect. Well, I'm pumped to have you back again. So just to kind of see, set a frame of reference for everybody. If you have not listened to Jane's first episode, please go listen to it. It's your backstory, it's your retail business, it's real Hayes, how you built it, the amazing things that you've went through, which still amaze me. You're incredible. So please go listen to that story. But today I want to fast forward. So if you guys don't already know Jane and what you're doing to help other retailers with email marketing and text marketing, that's what I really want to dig into a little bit more today and specifically some of the changes that are happening right in email and text marketing. So for a couple of points of reference before I turn it over to you, Jane, and we get into it, just know that there's going to be some links in the show notes today where if you have questions about this and some of the regulations we're going to talk about, we're not attorneys, we do not pretend to be. So we're going to link up some information for you in the show notes. Plus, if you were at the Boutique summit, Jane did a complete breakout session at the summit. So those of you who attended or have a digital ticket, you can find Jane's session there as well. I'll link those up in the show notes today also. So, Jane, let's jump off here. Let's start with text marketing. I feel like so much has changed in the world of text marketing. So I would love for you to start with just if someone was looking for text marketing to be a big part of their marketing program going forward, number one, why would it be important? And number two, what would you be looking for when you're choosing your text marketing provider?

Okay, so the reason why it's important is just like everything, we want to meet people where they are, right? That's why we have mobile friendly devices. That's why we use commentsold, that's why we use Instagram and we use Facebook. So very similar to how I'm sure we all have those customers that comment like crazy on Instagram and they also have Facebook, but we never see a comment from them. On Facebook, right? We all have our, our preferred platforms. So it's the same way with email and text. People who shop on mobile are more likely to purchase on text from text marketing and people who shop on desktop are more likely to purchase via email marketing. So for that reason we want to meet them where they are. Also, people who are of certain generations convert better on text marketing. That being said, don't forget to. So like for instance, our, our customer base is 45 and up and for the longest time we did not do text marketing because we thought like they aren't going to want to get a text message, they're going to be annoyed. And then we did a survey and we had much higher number of people who wanted us to do text marketing than we even. I mean we're completely blown away. So we started, did great and then over time we ran quite a few tests and studied like where different people converted and maybe they also had email, but maybe they don't check their email or maybe they have, maybe they order from their work email and the work email bounces it or it just goes into a filter, right? We like to assume that if we're sending something to someone that they're receiving it. On the same token, with text messaging, one thing that we always assume with with text marketing is they like to use the old metric of 99% open rate. And that was the case before iOS 15. But what happened is we now have all have that unknown folder, right? Like if you, I'm sure many of you know what I'm talking about in your inbox on your iPhone, you can click on unknown and you can either click on all known or unknown. There are a lot that live in that unknown folder. And so we've done a few internal studies. The text marketing agencies still like to use the 99% rate. What we've actually noticed is it's more of like a folder 40 to a 50 depending on if that person has saved your contact in their phone. And so for that reason, like we all like to talk about attribution, right? So we all like to, you know, anytime you get like your Facebook agency comes back and they're like, we contributed to 70% of your sales. And you're like, no, I was doing a live or I did a sale or that also had to do with like all these things that they put that they purchased is exactly what I posted, right? So we don't like to use the term attribution, we like to use the term affiliation. So we like to say like this is Our affiliation, Right. Because if you look at each of your orders, especially if you have Shopify, you can look at your conversion details and see, oh, this person came to the website because of Facebook, but they converted because of a text message. Right? They got like an abandoned cart message or maybe they came to the website because of an email they got, but they converted because they got served a follow up ad on Facebook. Right. So for that reason we use the term affiliation rate. So one of the biggest things, especially after iOS 15, is when you are looking for a text provider. And this was something we didn't really pay attention to until iOS 15. It's just kind of one of those things like you don't ask questions sometimes because you operate on assumptions. Right. So we work with many different text agencies or many different text platforms, but we started whittling down after iOS 15 and that's because we were getting attribution rates that didn't necessarily seem accurate because we were seeing our click rates drop. But the attribution rates weren't dropping. And one would think if the click rates are dropping, then therefore so should the sales from that. Right? So as we started to push, we realized that when they consider them views or opens, there's actually no way to track if someone has viewed or opened a text message message. For that reason, it should only be tracked based on clicks. So one thing you can do is, number one, you should always be using a text platform that has revenue attribution. You need to be able to see who clicked, you need to be able to see what they purchased. You need to be able to see what that window is. You need to be able to see if they have failed sends, any of those things. Right. And so I would recommend either changing your attribution to click only or to going with a platform that only tracks clicks because the reality is viewed and only equals sent. That doesn't even mean that they received it. They'll use the term received, but that doesn't mean that they received it. So you need to be with a platform where you can actually run a report for those failed sins and remove them. Because at the end of the day, if you're sending an mms message, that's 2.7 cents for every single message. Right. That adds up. Like Maybe it's only 10 or 15 people per text, but maybe you're sending it two or three times a week. That makes a huge difference. Yeah. And then also being able to send images, right? Being able to track what people are doing, being able to, you know, there's a lot of platforms out there where you can just send out a blast, which is great, but you also need to know what state are they in, right? What time zone are they in? What have they purchased? How can we meet them where they are? And I think that we've been doing that for a long time with email marketing, but for quite a bit of time that wasn't available for text marketing. Right. We weren't even able to do an abandoned browse flow until a year and a half ago. So did you know that you can actually like if someone, all they do is look at your website, you can actually send them a text following up with what they looked at. It's creepy, right?

It is.

I think my mom thinks it's magic but. And then also when you're looking at a platform, make sure that they have that two tap sign up, right? Make sure that when you go, when they go to your mobile to your like if they're on their, their mobile device and they go to your website that it has, you know, that pop up that says like, you know, join our text club for 10% off. Make sure it's one of the simple ones or all they have to do is tap it, it populates in their phone and they send it because that essentially that can qualify as a double opt in because it's automatically coming from their phone number. Also just as important, we all like to use those banners that say like save 10% off to you know, or like the cute little icons. By law you have to have a link to your terms of service and your privacy policy in there. Also, here's my shameless plug. There are a fair amount of online stores that do not have their terms of service and their privacy policy posted. That is our number one thing that holds up our build outs is because they don't have their, their legal attributions on their website. It does vary by state, but many states you cannot legally do e commerce business if you do not have those posted on your website. So even if you aren't doing text messaging, please go do it. Just go post them. You can in your checkout they're usually displayed, but I would check your state regulations to make sure that they don't have to be displayed when someone arrives to your website as well.

So can you get by that by just making sure they're linked up in your footer? I feel like that's such a global place to make sure your TNC and your privacy policy are listed besides your checkout. Does that cover it? If you have them in your footer because they're right there.

Absolutely, yeah. So what you can do in any time where you have like a page where you can link it to. Because even in that pop up you could say like, you know, to view our Terms of Service, click here to view our privacy policy. Right. Most people aren't going to, but there are people who do go through and you know, usually small businesses aren't the target, but there is a, there's a raceway in Florida that got sued recently because the guy stated that he didn't remember opting in and he obviously didn't win. But still they had to go through the lawsuit.

Yeah, let's, let's pause here because I, I want to talk more about this. So I feel like across so many channels in the last two years especially this has become an issue. Whether it's with text marketing, whether it's with email marketing, whether it's with handicap accessibility on E commerce websites, we've seen more and more small businesses be taken to court or have, you know, a C and D at minimum sent to them for not having some of these basic boxes checked. We'll say so talk to me specific about what has happened. There's been a number of lawsuits even with boutiques that we know for some of the practices they had with text marketing. Talk to me about those regulations and some things that we should all be looking for so that we don't get sued as well.

Okay. So TCPA compliance is, it is difficult because it's actually written out for telephone calls. And the issue with that is, is that sometimes there's a gray area. So for instance, like if you're in Florida, you have to be able to, it's stated as callback, but it can be legally digested as contact as well. Right. So you need to ensure that you have two way texting at minimum if you don't have two way texting. Or Florida also has something in place where if they repeatedly try to reach you and you don't respond to them, that's also in violation of tcpa. So TCPA was put in place during the Ronald Reagan administration and it's regarding telemarketing. Right. Because we all remember when you're little and you know, it's like eight at night and the phone rings right after dinner and then your, your dad answers and you're like, oh, this poor soul, right? And he's like, it is 8 o' clock at night. And so now all you have to do is say like, hey, can you let me know how I opted in specifically. And then they take you off their list. Right. But that's where the do not calls list came into place. So there are regulations as far as when you can call all of the other states besides Washington and Florida, it's 8:00am to 8:00pm that means if you send out. If you live in Idaho, I live in Idaho. If you live in Idaho and you send out a text at 8:30 in the morning, it's 7:30 for all of your people in California, that's against the law. You cannot send a text message more than twice in a day. That is also against the law. For whatever reason. Florida has three times. And usually Florida is much more stringent on everything. But you also have to keep in mind that the autoresponders are included in that. Right? So if someone abandons a cart and then you also send a text message in the morning and a text message at night, you're in violation. And there are safe, there are smart sending, like they say sending smart sending in most of these platforms. So you can set it like if someone has received something in the last 16 hours, do not send a message. Right. And that's best practices for email. So that should already be in place on your email just to help prevent a high unsubscribe rate. But it's in place for legal reasons on the texting side. So if you ever think to yourself like, oh, I could be more efficient if I do this or my best lives are at 10pm that's great. But you know, maybe a great idea would be to do like a lead up, right? Or if you're in California and you're sending a text for a live. Maybe it's 5:30, right? Doesn't seem all that late. That means it's 8:30 in Florida. In Florida you can only send messages or you can only receive messages from 8am to 8pm Florida Sticky. It doesn't mean they have to be a Florida resident. You could live in Texas, be traveling to Florida. And if you're in Florida at that time and you receive a message out of compliance, it's still illegal. Which is crazy. Like how are we supposed to know, right? There's no way to know. Because remember back in the day when you'd move and you had to change your phone number? Well that doesn't exist anymore. Right now we got telemarketers and you're like, you answer it and it's some guy in another country trying to sell you refrigerators. And so you can have any number you want, right? Also along that line, you have to have the name of your business displayed in the message. So that's another thing. Ensure that the company you're using will not allow you to send that message without the shop name automatically installed. Canada is different. You don't have to have it populated. For Canada, it is best practices. If you get turned in, if it's just one single person that turns you in, it's 500 bucks. If you get turned in and they push harder and they look back and are able to see your history, you can get charged $500 per occurrence. People can seek up, seek out up to three times that amount per person. There's a guy right now who's suing FedEx and CVS, which we all get those text messages at 2am Right? Your package is arriving or, you know, you have a shipment coming. And a lot of them are, you know, they're in our industry and we've all gotten those text messages late at night or early in the morning. So just be really careful because there are, there are financial ramifications. You do. Like I said, you have to have your Terms of Service and your privacy policy included in there. And that has to do with, like, pop up, that has to do with your landing page. So one of your best options is to have your landing page just to use an embed form, which has those linked in there. And we have some tutorials on our website regarding how to create those. We also have a tutorial on how to populate your Terms of Service and your privacy policy into your footer. That's a really easy way to have it. Just like Ashley said, it's simple. Is anyone going to look at it? Absolutely not. But are you going to, like, sleep better at night knowing that if they want to, they can find it for sure? Absolutely.

And we'll link those up for you guys in the show notes too, so that they can access that on your website.

Jean. Okay, perfect. And this is like kind of. This is, this is actually from the legal document for Florida. I don't know if this is what you guys read for fun, but here I am. But to me, this is insane. So that a telephonic sales call made to any area code in this state is made to a Florida resident or to a person in this state at the time of the call. Isn't that crazy?

Yeah.

So, like, if you're traveling to Germany and you have a layover in Florida, it's just nuts. So best practices, don't send before, don't send after 8pm in Florida and know if you're sending something at 7:50 in the evening and you have a lot of people on your list, it's probably going to take some time to get to them. So just be careful. If nothing else, a lot of them get dropped. But it's still, you know, it's time that you would do battling that instead of doing a live sale. Right. I had some other things highlighted again. No, no more than two or three depending on the state within a 24 hour period. One thing we should also touch on is push notifications do not have federal requirements, but there are some states that do have state laws in place because some of them view it as telemarketing and some don't.

Hey friends, it's almost that time of year where we all get to gather together in person for the largest business conference for boutique retailers in the world. It's our very own Boutique Summit and it's coming to Dallas March 19th and 20th. And I can't wait to see you guys there. You guys, this year we have over 16 breakout sessions and some really amazing keynote speakers led by Jenna Kutcher and many experts on our team, including our very own Jeff Fenn, Shannon Gordon, Sarah Burks and myself. Also speaking on the main stage, you're going to hear from the founders of Buddy Love and the CISC Kiss talking all about working with influencers and building a personal brand. And then we're going to break down inventory strategy, content strategy and everything you need to know to grow your business in the year to come. I hope you guys have an opportunity to join US in Dallas March 19th and 20th for the boutique Summit. Make sure to check out the link inside of today's show notes to get the details and the tickets so we can see you there. Okay, let me back up. Pause, pause right there. So some states you're saying view push notifications from those of you who have an app under the same umbrella and some don't. So would you say best practices for push notifications you should follow the same best practices for those that you would text marketing?

I would, yes. Okay, perfect. What else?

What other regulations do you have in your document that you would love to share?

What I'm gonna do, I'm gonna actually link this document for if you guys have like a hard time sleeping or like on a first date, it says just, I mean you bring this up, you landed that right. You're gonna get it married next week. But I'll have Ashley link this document and then I'll kind of go through and make Some notes on the things that apply mostly to us, but if you do use text marketing heavily, be aware of that also. Oh, another one. If you are selling adult products, the little flower. I'm sure you guys have no idea what I'm talking about. If you're selling the rose, that's the rose. You're selling the rose. Or if you're selling anything, if you're selling anything with CBD in it, those are called gated products. You. If you are selling those, you have to have on your website something confirming that they are of a certain age and depending on your state, you can't do text marketing. So we have had people who we have done text build outs for that have, you know, like a cbd, CBD lotion on their website. And their website will get crawled. And if CBD is there, they reject that. They reject the sending number. You can reapply once it's removed. Or anything that has to do with cocktails, if there's anything that references to cocktails or drinks or alcohol because those are also gated products.

Interesting. I did not realize that.

And there's also some until the last few months.

And there's an issue, I mean, with Shopify with some of those products in general as well. So definitely some exciting terms and conditions to be read on that front.

And I think there are. I was chatting with Daniel Fuelings about this a few months ago, but. And I'm sure if you haven't had her on, I'm sure you will eventually. She's also very active in the hub. She's great. You guys, if, if you have questions on this stuff, but there are some regulations in regards to advertising.

All right, let's.

Thrill. Right?

It is exciting. Let's talk about some more best practices. So if I'm hearing this, I'm like, ooh, Jane, I just don't know if it's worth it. Like that seems like a lot of legal trouble I could get into, right? Ah, there's ways around it. We can work through it. Obviously there's a lot of wins to be had when you're using text marketing as well. If someone's new to it. Jane, talk to me about, like, what are some of the easiest ways I can grow my list safely and efficiently? Because this is such a great, like, conversion source for our stores.

Absolutely. So your easiest way to grow your list is your pop up mobile, pop up for text, desktop, pop up email. At the end of the day, you'll be able to collect them both if you're set up correctly. At checkout and at purchase, I would say 50% of the stores that come through for us to do their build outs, they do not have the ability for people to opt in for text messaging at checkout. And this goes for like small stores, big stores and if you had your website, Shopify website before July 1, 2020. Actually the law went into place July 1, 2021. The change occurred May 2, 2021. So if you had your Shopify website before May 2, 2021, before then, if someone opted in for that, they accepted marketing and it was written in there, accept SMS and email that qualified. But starting 5-2-2021, they had to be able to check a separate box. That box does not show up on your Shopify unless you go into your settings. If you go into settings, go into checkout, scroll down to accepts marketing and you can have your email pre selected. But you can't have your SMS pre selected. It doesn't even give that option. So be sure to click there. You also need to have your terms and it will show you reminder you have to have your terms of service and your privacy policy populated when it comes to. Sorry, I just got a call about my son's school, threw me off. I'm gonna back up. Oh, also when it comes to comments sold, there is the ability for people to opt in for text. You do need to contact your rep to have it so that when people opt in for text messaging that it actually translates to your list. So it's also very important.

That's very important. Tell me more about your list and what are best practices in terms of what you're sending every week? Because I feel like if you're just texting people, new arrivals, new arrivals, new arrivals, you get drowned out so fast. So what are some good content tips for texting your list?

Okay, so know your audience, right? Do some testing, see if they if there's a huge difference between if you're sending them a GIF of what you're talking about or if you're just sending them a basic sms. Traditionally a GIF like an MMS message, it does cost 3 times as much but usually revenue is 4x so it is worth it. What we like to do is we'll segment based on if someone's clicked. So we'll send, you know, MMS to someone who's clicked in the last year and then we'll send SMS if they haven't clicked in the last last year. Just because we operate from an ROI perspective, I think if you're any at any time if you're using an email or a text platform where you can't whittle people down based on your roi, you need to switch platforms because at the end of the day, and some people say like, oh, texting is so expensive, but if you give me a dollar and I give you back $10, you're gonna keep doing it. If you give me a hundred dollars and I give you back a thousand, you're gonna keep doing that too, Right? So the extra expense isn't actually an expense, it's just what you're putting into it.

It's an investment.

But also segment, meet them like we talked about, meet them where they're at their size, small customer, you know, every, you can set up a float every 30 days. If they haven't purchased in the last 30 days, send them your top selling size. Small, send them a link to the collection. Right. Make them feel like you care and that you're paying attention. If you have top selling lines, do the same thing. If they're in a certain area, like, don't be afraid to. If you have, if they've purchased with you, you have their address, right. If they're going through a snowstorm, send them a text. Right. They people like to know when you're paying attention, especially if you're in another state, they're like, oh, she's paying attention. Right. Know that if you send out a text message and we get this a lot, people will say like, why send out a text for a live sale? And they're claiming that, you know, all the revenue from the live sale came from them. Well, the text firm or the text company doesn't have the ability to see where the last touch was on a, on a platform they don't have an integration on. Right. So all they're able to know is I sent this text to Ashley, Ashley clicked on it and then her order came through 40 minutes later. So yeah, they're going to say that like I created that revenue because they don't know any better. So that's one of the reasons we also use affiliation. Right, Right. Use your flows. So another easy way to meet them where they are. If you aren't someone that wants to do campaigns a lot, you don't need to do campaigns. You can simply just do. When someone comes to your website and abandoned the checkout, when someone comes to your website and abandoned the browse. If they haven't purchased in 60 days, if it's their fifth order. Right. Send them a loyalty code. We've tested out like first, third, fifth seventh, tenth, and the one that we put in place is fifth orders with the, with the comments sold integration. So technically the email is the integrated part. But if you know how to set it up, you can cookie it based on the email and fire text flows if all someone does is abandon a live sale. So you're good there. Also to that same point, you can put settings in your back end of your system for safe send time. So you could tell, you know, klaviyo Postscript, do not allow me to send a text message between this time and this time. Right. Because then you know that like even if you're, I don't know, something happens and it ends up, I don't know, being outside of the time that it's going to tell you. No transactionary messages or responsorial messages do fall under a different time frame. So you can't send like a campaign outside of 8 to 8. Sorry. But for instance, if someone comes to your website and signs up for your pop up at 10, they're still going to get that message back, right? Because that's in response to something that they did. They go and they abandon a checkout, they're going to get a response. They will not get. Whoever is setting up your flows, just ensure that for the main ones like the win back that like if they, if their purchase was, you know, at 10:50 at night, that 60 days later at 10:50 at night, they're not getting one that says like, hey, we miss you. Right. Make sure that whoever is setting those up knows to actually have it sent out like in the morning or midday. Yeah, but just, I mean, be considerate because at the end of the day it is in violation if you receive, you know, if, if I'm sending a text to 8 and you live in Florida and you're getting it at 11, it is in violation. But it's also kind of rude because we've all been there. Like if you have kids, you know, and you have your phone in your pocket and you finally get the baby to sleep, then it's like, bing, bing, bing, we're going live. And you're like, never again right back. Stop. Be sure that with your first messages that you always have the disclaimer at the bottom that says like, reply stop. To opt out, you legally have to have that in your first message for everything. They now have the ability to do virtual contact cards. And so if you populate in a virtual contact card as part of your responsorial message for someone signing up, that will also help with the Deliverability when it comes into your inbox.

Ah, smart. Jane.

You and I could break up your words. I had something really good to say.

Let's hear it.

Okay. Okay. Okay. You ready? Do you know why phone numbers are formatted the way they are? No. So they did a study and they figured out the way that our brains work with how we group numbers together. Okay? So that's why it's like 3, 3, 4. They've also done similar studies on the way that we read things. So you're supposed to have between seven and 11 words together. Once you have more than 11 words in a chunk, our brains don't process it. The same if you're doing something while you're reading. So when you send a text message, don't have it all in one chunk. Say like, hey, this is Ashley with the Boutique Hub. We're really excited about our planner. We want you to order it, it goes on sale, blah, blah, blah, right? Because you're like, I can't read this. I'm driving. I mean, not that anyone checks their phone while they drive, but if they did, right? So you want it to be like, hey, it's Ashley from the Hub, you know, next line. Did you know our planners go on sale today? Next line, click this link and always have a call to action. Don't you say, like, new arrivals are launched and then a link, but like new arrivals are launched. Click here. There are a bunch of studies that have to do with call to actions. Our brains love direction. It doesn't make sense, right? Like, we all know we can click the link, but if you tell someone to click the link, the number of people that click the link goes up a lot.

Isn't that the truth? Because people need read. They need words to read actions to take. Our brains don't function, otherwise you would assume.

I always tell it to my. You didn't want me to tell you what to do. This study wouldn't exist. And because of this study, I know that you want me to tell you what to do.

That is exactly right. I love it. Jane, you and I seriously could go on all day about this and email marketing, which we didn't even get into today. This was just about text marketing. But it's fascinating, you guys. If you want more information, we'll link up what you were talking about. The legal documents today. We will also link up your session from the Boutique Summit, how to access digital tickets if you don't already have it and you're in the Hub and you've been in the Hub for a long time. I certainly appreciate that about you, Jane. All right, any last, last parting thoughts? One last quick tip. When it comes to making sure you are maximizing text marketing, what would it be?

Double tap. Often, you know, like, if you do. We've done studies on if someone has to text the number and the number of people who will subscribe through a double tap opt in is 17 times more than if they have to type in the phone number. And make sure you're make sure it's integrated right because like if someone signs up on Shopify for text messaging, make sure it translates into your program.

I love that. Super helpful, Jane. I appreciate you. Thanks so much for being on the show today and we will catch up with you again soon.

Thank you for having me. Have a great day.

Hey guys, thank you so much for listening to this episode. We hope that you loved it. Don't forget to hit subscribe and leave a rating and review down below for a chance to be one of our featured listeners each and every week. For more information on our spirit of community over competition and how to access complete show notes and bonus downloads from our guests, head on over to the boutiquehub.com and join the community. We'll see you next week.