The Power of the Pivot: Navigating Big Shifts in Business

You guys, I have thought about how to intro this a few different times, but here's what we're gonna go with. I know many of you follow big leaders and influencers in the mindset and motivation, personal development and business space and so do I. And one of my favorites is my friend Lori Harder. She's someone who I've admired for a long time. I think that she's reinvented herself and created so many different diverse aspects of her personal brand and her businesses. And many of you remember when she spoke with us a few years ago at the Boutique Summit. For somebody who has built some incredible things off of not having a high school education and overcoming all kinds of odds, she's someone with a ton of just leadership and authority and authenticity in the space. And Lori's been on the podcast before as we've talked about many of the things she's working on as she was founding Light Pink and and today I'm excited because this conversation is the next chapter. Today Lori is going to talk about what it means to shift your direction. Not only was she working on this incredible drink brand, Light Pink, but like many people coming out of the pandemic, had to have a major shift in direction. And so from that when Light Pink maybe wasn't going to work as she saw it, she shifted and and created an amazing new drink company that is a powder based drink called Glossy. Today we're going to talk about how hard it was to walk through this process when she knew it was time to shift direction and how to do it with all the fear in the world when it was really freaking hard. The just like the realness and the authenticity. You guys that you hear from Lori today. I don't even think I needed to ask her a question. She could just roll with the mic and let it drop. The story is incredible so I know you're going to learn a ton. I know many of you are going to feel seen and understood in probably some of the positions that you found yourself in needing to shift direction. But rest assured, today knowing you are not alone, get ready to catch up and to meet my friend Lori. Harder. Business can be a lonely game. But it doesn't have to be. Welcome to Boutique Chat where we explore community over competition and how to scale your company with the balance and the happiness that we all seek. We'll hear from product based businesses of all types, retailers, e commerce and wholesale brands, along with industry experts shaping the future of our industry. I'm your host Ashley Alderson from the Boutique Hub and I Can't wait to chat. Hey, guys, welcome back to the podcast. This week we have an old friend on the podcast. You seen her here before. If you've been to the Boutique Summit, you've seen her speak at the Boutique Summit. Lori, I'm so excited you're back. Thanks for joining us again.

I'm so excited to be here and I had an absolute blast speaking at your event. I feel like all of the women were just like, so incredibly open and welcoming and we all have the same goals. We all want the same thing.

Absolutely. I still hear feedback. I still hear how many people loved having you there. So thanks again and I mean, fellow Wisconsin night. We gotta love that too.

Oh, yeah. Yes. Midwest. Seriously, there's something. There's a little bit of Midwest magic there.

I love it. A little Midwest magic. All right, well, here's the deal. You're back today and I'm so excited about this topic. Immediately when you and I were talking about coming back on the show, I thought I. I've been watching your journey unfold for the last, I don't know, two, what's it been, two, three years? You'll have to go back to the start here in a minute, but to see how you've grown, evolved, made tough choices, changed, reinvented yourself, built this amazing personal brand. I feel like there's so many people in our industry right now who can learn so much from all the fire that you've walked through. So I want to go back. In case someone hasn't met you yet, take me back to. Maybe not all the way to the beginning, but just, you know, when we last saw you at the Boutique Summit, you'd already had this incredible personal brand that you'd built and you were moving into building your first, like, product based business, a drink business. Tell me that story and kind of where we last met up with you.

All right, so in 2020, I started raising money for a product company. It was my first physical product. Prior to this, I had written books, done entrepreneurial events, done podcasts and digital courses for years. Also was in network marketing for a long time, so built out three different seven figure annually businesses, which, that in itself is a whole thing we can talk about another time. So when I decided to go into products, this was a big, big pivot for me. So not only were the things that I had done in the past a pivot, like I'd been a little bit used to pivoting, so I kind of was in this idea that, like, hey, your girl's done this before. Like, I'm gonna be good. But let me just tell you, going from very digital courses, and even though it's a, you know, also a book, a physical product that still feels very much like a digital product, you launch it a lot of the same ways, you sell it the same ways. And so when I decided to do a physical product, it was like, okay, I am literally gonna have to start hanging out with people who have physical products, learning from people who have physical products, going to their events, listening to podcasts, all about it, starting to understand this whole world, because it is. It's sold in a completely different way. It's done in a completely different way. There's supply chain, there's co packers, there's warehouses. There's so many other people in your business that you don't have control over. And so I was not fully aware of just how much that impacts business. So going in 2020, I was like, great. I want this new challenge. I was really ready in my life for a new challenge. I had just written a book, I had gone on tour with it all year long, and I kind of hit this place where I noticed that I was feeling a little like, maybe not explained as boredom, but I just felt like I was just doing the same thing over and over again every day. And I know that when I'm starting to feel that way, that means that I. I need more challenge. And as much as, like, I can also hate challenge, I know that it's what makes me happiest. And so when I decided to do a physical product, I was very excited because I'm such a consumer. And I also wanted to go into a physical product because I had this belief, especially kind of the conversation in my industry with women is like, we felt a little capped. Like we're like, outside of digital. I don't. We don't feel like we have the skill set to go and do a physical product. And so I just had this moment of, I don't like feeling like I can't fulfill on what I believe is my next dream because I don't know how or I don't have the network to show me how yet. And so I knew that there were a lot of women in my, you know, network, in my friend group who were like, I've never raised money, so I don't feel like I could do that. I don't. I don't feel like I have a company that I could sell. I just feel like I'm going to be in this, like, grind for the rest of my life. Like creating, launching, creating, launching. And so I was very interested in creating a company that with the intention of selling, so 2020, I go to do this, raise money. That in itself was a huge struggle, you guys. I did not graduate high school. I still have not to this day. So to, to raise $2 million from 54 women was like a massive feat for me. I had a lot of help. I had a lot of people help me learn how to tell the story. I had people help me learn how to raise the money. Like you absolutely can, even if you've never done it. And so raise the money. 2020 is happening. We all know what happened then. 2021 is happening. We all know what was happening then. And that was a rough time for so many people, let alone for startups. So if you're listening to this and you know what I'm talking about, you know, a lot of things were happening for startups during that time, such as, you know, the, the amount of things you had to order, minimum order quantities were going way up. So it took maybe being able to, you know, order 3,000 of a product went to like 10,000 or sometimes 100,000. I even had one thing go up to a million because it was the lids of cans. And I was like, we can't operate like this. So it was, I was spending so much time getting so many no's on, like we need to order something smaller. Why won't this warehouse take us? Why won't this co packer take us? The co packer that would take us just shut down. Okay, this warehouse will take us, but they want $15,000 down. And if we don't sell a certain amount by month two, they kick us out. We have no plan B is just like very few things that were going on during this time. And so, you know, add this up. Over a year and a half of trying to get this company to launch and we just could not do it. And I've never experienced this in my life. Everything that I have set out to do, I have been able to get to a finish line, even if it was messy, even if it was sloppy. And we just could not get this thing to launch. And so I had this moment where we just got this very clear, like you're not going to be able to pass go. I had the licensing for the alcohol. It was a, it was a light rose wine spritz that we were creating and then a non alcoholic rose. And just, even just saying that out loud, like the shipping costs of shipping a liquid gives me like panic Attacks. But we, with the licensing of that for online, like, they. We thought we were in the clear and that we had everything they needed. And they just kept asking for more things. And there was a day where they wanted all of the fingerprints from my 54 investors. And I knew that some of the women were like. They were like, we're not doing it. Like, and if you don't have that, you can't pass go. So I just had this moment of, we can't go on. Like, if I didn't figure this out now, we actually cannot go on any further. So I don't know if it was that week or that night, but I just got like this massive download in the middle of the night, you know, because I'm already awake most nights because I'm struggling with this company and am up at 2am every single night worrying about, how am I going to tell these people? I have to disappoint these people. Why can't I get this to go? And all of a sudden, I just hear this voice that's like, turn the Titanic now. To most people, they're like, okay, big deal. What does that mean? But to me, what I saw in my head was like, okay, you have all of these women that you invited on this journey with you on, quote, unquote, the Titanic. Literally, I just saw a big ship. Everyone just wanted to be on board. They were excited about being. Being on the ship. And it was this moment of they're excited about being on the journey, not the destination that we're going to. And here I am captaining the ship and I can see the iceberg and they can't.

And it.

It would be. It would be to the demise of the company if I was like, no, they got on. They think they're going to this destination. So we have to go. Even if there's an iceberg that's going to sink this thing right in front of me. And so it was a moment of, Lori, you need to be the captain and you literally need to turn this thing with all of your force. They don't even need to know it's turning yet. But while you're figuring everything out and how you're going to retell this story, like, you need to be taking massive action to get this thing on the right course. And so that's what I did. I literally was like, okay, I can't. I knew an investor letter was coming out. Like, it needed to come out in, like, three months. Like, you got three months to, like, figure out what is next. And that was a hard pit. That was like a. That was a hard left turn. Like we were gonna pivot and.

Yeah.

So thankfully at this time, I had another idea in my head because as I was seeing these minimum order quantities and the pricing and all this, all these things going up, I was like, we need to make money. We need to get another product of some sort for an upsell or, you know, something that could maybe be on some sort of subscription. And so at that time, I was like, okay, I drink. I drank hydration packets. Like it was my job. So I would always have like one to three of them a day. Because I'm like a toddler. I need something flavored in my water in order to drink water. And I know how important water is for our mood. Like, literally there's some studies on anxiety and depression on just being dehydrated. And so I was always trying to drink water because I knew it would make me feel better. I knew it was good for my mood and I wanted amazing skin, you guys. And I knew that when I was dehydrated, like, my skin would be really cracked. I tend to run on the dry side on my skin. And just in general, I noticed how much better I felt. So I was like, okay. One day I had this hydration packet and I was looking at it and I'm like, okay, this is just really expensive salt and sugar. Like, I am drinking this every day. I hate taking pills. I always forget to take my pills. But this one routine is something I can stick to. I was like, this little stick pack I can actually stick to. And so I was looking at it and I was like, why don't you, like, why don't you do more? It was just a girl in front of a stick packet saying, do more. Literally, like, this could do so much better for us. And that's when it was just burnt. It was burst. I was like, why wouldn't I make this packet that's always in my purse that feels really easy. That's the one thing, supplement wise, that I've always stuck to throughout my journey of like, ups and downs. I want this to be the thing that not only hydrates but is good for my skin, is like wellness is for gut, is for so many other things. So that's when we started. I had told a couple friends, like just a couple tried and true girlfriends. And I was like, hey, here's the deal. I am in a really rough spot. Here's like the reality of it. I don't have a viable business anymore. I'm thinking of pivoting into this. Could I get your help on not only support, like mentally around this, I was like, I feel like I'm just going to need a lot of support over the next two weeks of like the realization of the decision that I'm making and how big this is going to be for like what I have to tell them and all the actions I have to take. So then I asked one of them who has a really large community, if I could put a survey into their group asking, okay, if you had a hydration packet and it could do a lot more, what are some of the things that you would want it to do and what are you struggling with? And so we got like over 5,000 people to respond back because we just did a ton of large groups. And there were some really through line things that were our, our desires too. They wanted to feel lighter in their bodies, so we had to figure out what that meant. They felt bloated, they felt heavy, they felt like they weren't digesting their food and they wanted to look better. They wanted their skin to be better. Like, okay, if this could make me glow, that'd be great. So we were like, what would that look like? If we didn't answer all of the needs, but we answered, you know, like two that could also have a ripple effect of like maybe some wellness throughout because of the ingredients. And so we settled on skin and gut because amazingly enough, ingredients that are good for the skin are things like vitamin C, zinc, probiotics, prebiotic fibers, so many different things like that that are also just so good for overall wellness. Magnesium, you know, coconut water powder has so many trace minerals in it and electrolyte. So we're like, okay, we can kind of pick these things that are going to be good for all of this. And let's, let's like start formulating and see what happens. And so we got really, really clear on exactly what ingredients we wanted. We wanted to go with less because we wanted higher amounts of those particular ingredients so that they would make an actual change. Because what I started learning in the formulation world is sometimes when there's 70 ingredients in something, they call it in that in the supplement world, like a fairy dusting, just so you can say it's in there and maybe use some of the marketing that it does, even though it doesn't necessarily do that because there's such a trace amount that it's not doing anything for you. So thing that I learned in network marketing was like, people are only going to purchase again if they like, see a result or feel a result, or they, like, love the flavor of the habit. Like, those are the. Those are the main things. And I'm like, what would happen if we got a result? They love the flavor. And it was an easy habit. So we went really, really deep on wanting to make sure that we got results, whether it was how you felt or in your skin. And then it was something easy to stick to. And I was psychotic about the flavor. So now we have Glossy, which is a daily beauty supplement, and it focuses on skin and gut. But that was the hard pivot in that were. These were the, like, inside conversations that we had to have. And let me just tell you, like, I will say I'm. I can. I can talk about it from such a powerful, excited place now. And I feel powerful and excited because I had to go through the darkest period of my entire life, career wise. And I will. I will tell you, like, it was the. I mean, that's the first time I've ever had some really intrusive, horrible thoughts because I had just raised money from 54 incredible women. These were my mentors, These were my best friends. These were people in my circle of, like, influence. And I raised money from them, and I feel like I failed them. And also at that point where I pivoted, I had already spent a million dollars on getting this business up and started a million of their dollars that I didn't get to get back. And so that weight, for me, especially as a female, I think we carry it a little bit more. I think we need to do a little more work around it. I think we need to have these conversations more. I wasn't hearing these conversations.

Yeah.

You know, for men, like, when I would talk to them, they're like, yeah, that's the price of doing business. This is, you know what happens. You don't feel bad about it. You took risk. This is what it's like for women. We're like, oh, my God, what are they gonna think of me? They're never gonna work with me again. I feel so awful. I can't believe I did this. How could I be so foolish? How could I be so dumb? I can't show my face. How am I gonna get. I mean, like, it was awful. Like, there was. There was one moment, and I don't. It's like I. It was so bad. In the middle of the night, I had been drinking wine, and it was not good because I was trying to, like, you're just coping with stress. And I was drinking wine every single night. My anxiety was at an all time high and I just remember thinking, okay, if something happened to me, that might be better because I don't see a way out. Like, I literally just don't know how to get out of this. And looking back, I'm like, oh my God, it's money like that you can make back and people understand and it's a big risk and they took it with you and they knew that it was a risk. And I even said that when I was raising money, I called them freedom phrases and I hope you guys hear this and use these. And one of the things that really helped me get through that was every time I took an investment, I would say to them, are you aware this is the biggest risk that you can possibly take in investing? Like, you may not get this back. If you're aware of that and you want to go on the ride with me, awesome, let's go. If not, and you can't afford to lose this money, then this is not an investment for you. And so knowing that I did that was like, okay, you, you gave them the drill. Like you, this is exact. They already knew they're along for the journ, so show them the journey. And that was the, the moment where it was like, you got to get real vulnerable. You got to say, hey, remember that when you wanted to learn everything? Well, here's, here's what I'm going to show you and share with you. And also let's come back from this powerfully. Let's prove that we can like make this pivot. Let's prove, let's talk about how important these pivoting conversations are and that you should not be having them in the dark and that this is so normal. Most companies, not most, I would say, you know, from what I learned and what I'm seeing, I would say there's a good 20%, if not more of the companies that you see right now that were not started on what they are.

Like it more than that, I would bet.

Yeah, I would think way more than that. Yeah. And so you have to be, I think the most important thing as a business owner is to be nimble, to be flexible, to be willing to move quickly when you see something is not working, and to get vulnerable and ask questions from where you're at, not where you want people to think that you are, because you won't get the actual help that you need. Asking a question from a non vulnerable place.

Ah, that was a keynote and you just dropped the mic and now you're done. Thanks for being here today.

Thank you so much.

Are you ready to participate in Pink Friday 2024? This is your official invitation. I hope you join us to shop small first and promote your store. Whether you're online or you have a beautiful brick and mortar that you want to really tell your story about. Why to shop small first this holiday season, November 22, 2024 is the Friday before Black Friday. And annually, every single year, on Pink Friday, we joined together to promote this idea of shopping small first before Black Friday, before the big box stores. You know, I love small Business Saturday and I just hate that it comes after Black Friday. It's an afterthought. That's why Pink Friday again is always the weekend before Black Friday. So join us. Sign up to promote your store to be on our shop Small first map and receive all of the ideas, toolkits, stickers, window clings, graphics, anything you can use to set up an event in your community or to promote your online business on Pink Friday, November 22, 2024. Link is in the show notes. Be sure to sign up. It's completely free to promote your business on Pink Friday. I love so many things that I really love, but a couple I really want to highlight. I love that you said nobody's having these conversations. And yes, you're right, no one is having these conversations. And my business was a, was a pivot. My business was an initial failure that was a pivot into the hub. So I completely relate to that.

Yeah, I.

And that's why I say I think it's really common, but you don't hear about it until after the second business was successful.

Yep.

So the, I think the people that are still stuck in the first business, they're like, someone talk about this, please. And I see it right now, even in retail, in our space, in E commerce, where there's a lot of people feeling like, oh man, I need to pivot. I built my business on this. It's not working. But they feel very alone and trapped and vulnerable. And what's everyone going to think of me? They're going to think I'm a failure. How do I pivot out of this? So I would love to hear from you from a standpoint of you said the people that want to be on the boat with you, they were there for the journey, not the destination. And I feel like the thing that allowed that boat to float was that you had a personal brand that you built everything off of. Community, a brand. And that allowed that pivot to really happen to a new destination. So what advice would you give to two different types of people. A, the people that are in that pivot spot that either first don't have an idea of where they're going. They just feel helpless and they know they need to pivot. And what advice would you give to the person who's in the pivot spot that knows they need to pivot and they have another idea, but they're still scared to tell people about it?

Okay. All right. So something that I've always done from the beginning, that I will always continue to do daily, and this is such every day I'm reminded of it, is to start documenting your journey. So I think it's important to be out in. In the eye of, you know, whatever social platforms, however you best feel like you want to document the journey. It could be a podcast, it could be an email list. It could be social media. I think. I think social media is really important to do. But pick one platform if it feels overwhelming, where you're going to get on every day and you're going to start saying, I need to pivot. Like, I. This is where I'm at. This is how I'm feeling in business. Maybe you're feeling that way and, you know, talking about the things that maybe you're interested in and get out there and learn about what people are interested in because we. I don't know about you, but I work really well. When I get around a lot of ideas and I try to. I try to just let them sit for a while. So I think it's important to go get in rooms of ideas. And sometimes being alone is really important. If you're someone who knows that they can ideate really well on their own and they can get overwhelmed by a lot of ideas, then I suggest kind of pulling away for a bit and, you know, giving yourself that alone time. Whether it's runs every single day where you're starting with an intention, I don't think you're gonna land on your answer of where you need to go. If you're not intentional every single day with asking yourself the question, opening up your sphere of your life of going, okay, what's next for me? What feels fun? What feels interesting? What do I feel like? Because, you know, business is just solving problems. What problems do I want to solve for people? Yeah, like, what are the things that light me up? Or what in my life have I been noticing? Like, I stood in front of the hydration packet and I said, do better. Like, why doesn't this do more? And, you know, then I tried to look for people who it was that there were, like, packets that were doing a lot more, and I didn't. There were some that were doing more, but I didn't love what they were doing. So you find this little white space potentially, where even if some people are doing it and it's like, okay, well, they're doing it, but I would still do it different. That's still a great idea. And so then you can go and ask people, is this a good idea? Like, marinate on your top three ideas and then just pick one. You can't make a wrong decision from there because you actually just need to start getting data on them. So, you know, people. People get stuck there because they're like, okay, I have these three ideas. Great. You know what you're going to do if you can't decide? I literally want you to write them on paper, grab one and pick one. I mean, there's going to be some other things that you're going to factor in, but if it all evens out, like, okay, these all have similar risks. These all fit within my audience. If you can't decide, just pick one. Because we need data. Like, we just need some data to move forward. Like, Ashley, I don't know. Even though I love my product more than anything and it's doing it, we had an exciting, like, first couple months. It still may change because if things drop off, I might need to change the pricing, I might need to change the ingredient and get something a little more. Maybe, like, ramp something up in there to, like, get even more results for people. I might need to, like, completely pivot a product in a year because maybe people weren't interested in it after a year. I don't know. This is my initial, like, test of, let's just launch this and see how it does. We got it close enough to what we thought was good, but it still wasn't what exactly what we wanted. I would have spent another year on it, you know, trying to get everything in it that I wanted for a certain price point, for a certain flavor. And there comes a time where you just need to say, we're gonna try this because we're curious about it and we love it and we're gonna go for it. So I think that you need to start every day with an intention if you're there. Because honestly, when I was going from being like, just author, digital courses and everything like that, I took a year to ask myself this question. I didn't know what I wanted to do next. So if I had all the time, if I had all the money, and if I had all the network in the world, what would I be doing? I asked those three questions because I didn't feel like I had all the time, but if I did, I'd make a different decision. Right. I didn't feel like I had the network, but I knew that I could create it. And I felt like, okay, well, if I had this network that they have, I feel like I'd get more answers. Well, I can go create that network or go try to get in the room or work really hard to meet those people. I knew that that was possible. Even though it didn't feel possible, I knew it was possible. So if I had all the time, all the money, and I was like, okay, I don't have all the money in the world right now at all, but I know someone who's raised money before, and I could ask him how he did it. And so what I wanted to do with those three questions is remove any sort of lid that I had put on myself. Because what I was doing previously is I was answering the question of what I want to do next and what I want to pivot into from a place of my current skill set, current monetary, like financial status and current network. You cannot make a future decision based on your current status, because you need to be making a decision based on what is possible and where you can go. Like, if you actually want to make a leap forward or you're going to make a leap in the same spot, that's just going to be a jump up and down. And so I didn't want to do that. I wanted to leap. This was a point in my life. I was in my late 30s, and there's something about the late 30s that make you go, oh, damn, there's another whole level here. But it's going to require a really big leap. But you get to kind of take all of your experience of your 30s and go, I didn't die yet enough times. So even if you're younger, you can take this and say, okay, these women haven't died yet. They've failed enough times publicly. Especially if you ask them to know that, like, that's not going to kill you. You might as well take that big leap instead of doing all the small ones because. Or we're just going to continue to take these small leaps into things that were just not. That are just kind of staying the same.

Yeah. So good. All of it. So good. Minimum viable product.

Yes.

Take a leap. Get into it. So I've got to go back to this Idea of the brand, the personal brand, the network, the collaborating. Because when you have worked as hard as you have to cultivate all those things, it makes taking those big leaps or making a big pivot a lot easier. I always tell. I mean, in the boutique space, it's the exact same thing, right? These are product based businesses. They sell all kinds of different products. As long as they've built a community and the brand, people will buy anything from them. It doesn't matter what it is, if it's a shoe or if it's a drink product. As long as people know you, like you, trust you, they're going to come for you. So you're one of the best in the business at this. Talk to me about those who are new to the idea of really building their personal brand, really building a community, really building a network to, to bounce off of. What advice would you give them?

Again, I'm gonna say get on a platform every day to document the journey. And when I say document the journey, I think I'm gonna go back to the very beginning so that I can, like, get in those shoes right now. So I had started building community before I did anything. Anything before I did. This is like the first day I was on MySpace, you guys. And then the first days of Facebook. I remember being like, I'm not getting a Facebook. And then going, oh, I could see how I could be on this platform and using it and obsessing over it. But what I did was I wanted to do a fitness competition and I had not yet done one. And so I was like, I lived in the Midwest. There weren't a whole lot of people interested in fitness competitions. I know that might blow your mind.

But at the time it was beer drinking competitions.

Lori, it was beer drinking and she's cursed.

Yes.

Like, I was literally rejected by friends. Even with, even with saying this goal out loud. They were like, you think you're gonna do that? That's hilarious. Like, do you see yourself while I'm eating, literally cheese curds and beer and we're having this conversation? And so I was like, okay, this is not going great. So I went online and I was like, there's got to be people here who feel the same as me. And so what I started doing is every day I would, like, I. I read personal development books and I would. Maybe something would hit me. Maybe it was a quote in there that I loved. Maybe it was something they said. And I would say, you know, something around how I either had fear of going for what I wanted or how I was feeling or what I was doing to kind of like, you know, start moving forward that day. And I just wrote a paragraph every single day on Facebook. That was it. No picture, no nothing attached. And so fast forward, I end up getting this audience. This was before I had magazine covers. This was before. This was before anything. I started growing that following of people who said, you know, I come to you when I think that it's like, I can't do it. Or I come to you because I know that you struggled with anxiety, too, because you share that. I come to you because when you come on here every day, I can, like, totally relate with where you're at. But then you help me take an action. And so I tried to, like, show them the actions that I was taking every day. And I used it as accountability. And I think that by doing that, like, go on somewhere and try to figure out a way for you to document how you're feeling. Remember that there are people who just. They're in your exact spot. They want to connect with you, and then they want to see something that you've done, and you can use it as accountability. Like, okay, I didn't want to go to the gym today, but I'm going at 11. Who's going with me? I'm going come back and I'm going to post again once I'm done. I know it sounds so small, but it might start with two people who respond on that comment. Maybe one, maybe none. And you have to show up no matter what, all of the time. You guys, I have posts right now that I'll get, like, two comments on sometimes. And I'm like, who cares? I'll leave it up because that's a part of the journey. Like, it doesn't matter what matters to me. I'm in the game of consistency and making sure that I show up. I am not in the game of impressing people. And you can go through all of my posts and you can see that I leave them all up. Some have very few things on them, Some have a lot of things on them, I don't care, because I'm in the game of consistency and connecting with my people. And so if you play that game, rather than the game of, like, it's got to be good, it's got to do this, it's got to do that. No, I just care if I connected with someone and if I was consistent that day. And that is how you build a community is like, caring even if you have five people or you have a million people, because it Starts with the nurture within that group and the connection. The connection within that group.

Yeah. I love it. Every single person listening today can resonate with that. People don't buy products, they buy other people.

Yep.

And that's what you're selling. You have, yes, you have a product based business, but really you have a people business. You have a people company. So it's freaking awesome. All right, let's do this. So just in essence of time, this was incredible so far. I want to do a couple short questions with you, a couple like lightning round questions with you. I give you two hours back in your day to work on income generating activity. What do you work on?

I create more content, creative content. I learn how to get better at it.

So helpful. Good. What is the unsexiest process in your business with the most impact?

This is a good one because I'm at the beginning of this one. If I would say with my other businesses, I would say like lead magnets and list building. Yeah, this one too. But products are, they're changing really fast.

So.

Yeah, I'm still figuring that out.

Okay, perfect. Well, I would say I, I have to give people because you and I were talking about this before we started to record. But everyone, for the most part, I won't say everyone. I'll say 90% of people listening are on Shopify. And so you're probably like, that's got to be part of your process is just even inventory management, understanding, like the email flows, the abandoned cart sequences, all of that. All of that Shopify process is probably brand new for you.

Oh yeah, all of that is brand new. Thank God I have an amazing director of operations because that was important to me before I started this. As I was like, that is not my zone of genius, but it's a huge piece of the business that I know is the most important. I've spent years, years hearing about having like making sure the unsexy back end is, is like the most important thing that you can do. So. So I went super. Like, that's been such an important piece of the business is having someone who can set that all up and learn about it really well.

Yeah, absolutely. All right, best advice that sticks with you through this season.

There's so much advice, Ashley.

Best advice you've gotten recently. It sticks with.

Best advice is like, it's never one thing. It's all the things. So, you know, people are like, how are, how are you successful? And what I've learned from the most successful people is they just tried so many things to try and figure out which one worked and then maybe they went deep on that particular one. And so right now I'm in that season of we just, we gotta, we have to try it all. We have to be willing to fail and we have to be willing to. Or we have to figure out what works best for us. And what works best for us might look totally different than what works best for that other product based business. So I think that remembering that even if we try something like that worked great for someone else, it may not work for us and we just need to keep trying new things. Things.

I love it. Feel fast.

Yeah. Feel fast.

It's a cycle. Yeah. Best advice for setting boundaries. To either take care of yourself or setting boundaries for what you say yes or no to.

Best advice for setting boundaries. I think there's two ways you can do it. You know, I'm from the Midwest, so like, if I say the other way, they're going to be like, but I can't. That's mean.

Huh?

So, you know, I, I. Okay, so setting boundaries. I think that for me, what really helped is the things that I would get asked for all of the time that I knew I needed to say no to. I took the time to craft, copy, paste paragraphs that I could just copy and paste back to people so I didn't have to think about it. If it was like an event that I couldn't, you know, attend or I wasn't going to be a part of, I would copy and paste like an answer that was very thoughtful but quick. That was like, oh, I have every no that I need to give to people all like, you know, ready to go and copy and paste it. And that really helped me in the season of learning how to say no instead of sitting there and crafting these thoughtful answers. So nobody felt bad. Like, that takes so much time and energy and just craft it once in a thoughtful way and then you just grab it and send it.

It's helpful. That is actually really helpful.

Yes.

Less. Less anxiety of trying to be Midwest. Nice.

Yeah.

Let people down easy. All right, what's one mid. What? What's one metric? I was gonna say Midwest. What's one metric that you live by? A number that you have to know in your business right now that you're learning every day.

I have a goal of how many customers that we want on per month in order to hit our goals for the year. So that's what I'm really focused on right now, which I, I love focusing on customer based numbers because I think of people it like, it makes me really think of people and celebrate each person that comes through.

Yeah.

So that gets me excited, actually, because I'm looking at people instead of numbers right now.

It's so funny because when people say they're overwhelmed by numbers, I will often tell them, just switch the word numbers to dollars. Or in your case, you know, new customer acquisition, customer retention, all that. It's just. It's people versus numbers.

Yeah.

And it makes it so much more digestible, I think, at the end of the day. On that note, what's one metric in this business that you haven't yet gotten your arms around that you're excited to learn more about?

Well, we're just starting ads, so everything having to do with cost of, you know, customer acquisition and all of that fun stuff. So that's going to be a whole world that I'm, you know, that could either I could look at it as overwhelming or I can look at it as exciting. And I want to look at it as exciting. I want to look at it as easy. Like, it's just a formula. There's always, like, in certain times in history, there's a formula. We just got to figure it out.

Yeah. And there is right now, honestly, we. We see thousands of ads every day. And it's exciting because Facebook ads are truly working for product based businesses. And it is a formula. It's a different formula probably than you're used to, but it's an exciting formula for what you're selling.

Totally.

So it's really good. All right, last one. Best advice on how to be a great boss.

Oh, there's a lot here. But I think the number one thing that I love to do is acknowledge people. I think that acknowledgement goes so far and acknowledging people and allowing people to, like, grow and fail and like, have a culture of accepted failure and excitement around people like taking risks and being willing to try new things. But in acknowledging them for that, just acknowledging them for all of the great things that they do, that's so good.

And you could even say that on a broader message, like, yes. Within your team. But honestly, what you just said correlates with your entire message today of just, just, you know, like, if you look across women in business. Right. Would you say maybe that's the overarching message that our industry needs a lot more of is accepting failure.

Oh, accepting failure or the ability to.

Pivot and try new things? Like, is that what's missing?

Oh, my gosh. I. Okay. I just have to say, I had gone to so many business things with panels on stage. And I was like, why do I feel so in this? It's getting better. And it's only. It's only certain events, but like the very, like, where the women are so far ahead of you. Some of those events, it was like, yeah, why do I feel more defeated than, like, I can go and do it? And it was because they weren't sharing failures. They were sharing like these moments of. Of winning, of triumph. And I'm like, that's awesome. But I feel like a total failure and I'm scared and I don't know how to do this or that or don't have these people or didn't have that. So I think it's. I think showing failure is. Is. Is so huge.

So good. Lots to be said about that. Lori, this has been so incredible. I'm so glad you came back on the podcast today. Everyone listening can relate to this, without a doubt. I mean, just really. I feel like everything in life happens for a reason, right? And something good will come from every bad situation if you choose to let it. And you have to really look things.

I think the best things come from those I like. If I took away all of your failures, you wouldn't be here. You wouldn't be doing what you're doing. So it's the best things. And we have to remember that even though it feels awful in the moment, it's going to deliver you something that will rock your world later. So I'm so grateful for you. I love whenever I get to talk to you and we're going to make it happen. So we see each other in Wisconsin this summer.

It's coming, cheese curds and all. Good to see you. Thanks for being on the show today.

Thank you for having me.

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