Turning Followers into Fans: The Business of Influence with Marc D’Amelio

Foreign. Business can be a lonely game. But it doesn't have to be. Welcome to Boutique Chat where we explore community over competition and how to scale your company with the balance and the happiness that we all seek. We'll hear from product based businesses of all types, retailers, e commerce and wholesale brands, along with industry experts shaping the future of our industry. I'm your host Ashley Alderson from the Boutique Hub and I can't wait to chat. Hey guys, welcome back to the podcast. This week I have been really looking forward to this conversation. Not about TikTok or famous or television stuff. I just want to talk business. Mark, let's just talk business today. Sound good?

I love it. Let's do it.

All right, well I'm pumped you're here. I as I've been just, you know, kind of diving a little bit deeper into your history before TikTok, before all of this happened. You've been in this industry for a long time. You've had a lot of success in apparel, footwear, all kinds of brands. I don't think a lot of people know that necessarily. So tell me about your history. How did you get started down this path?

Yeah, I had a. Graduated from University of Connecticut with a little arts degree. Had no idea what I wanted to do back in the day when they would run help wanted ads or job postings in the New York Times. I answered that in the New York Times for a company called College Concepts. Had no idea anything about the apparel space and they are, they were one of the first sports licensed boxer manufacturers. And I started in early 90s and my most of my career has been in sales selling directly to retail and done that for the majority of my career either through other brands that I represented or had my own brand for a while that I would sell to many small boutiques and retailers around the country.

So you can empathize with everyone who's a road warrior right now. Road reps, going to trade shows, getting in front of retailers in unique ways. Tell me you've got to have some good stories from being on the road.

Yeah, I've been going to Magic for you know, probably over. Yeah like just, just over 30 years now, early 90s. Been, been going to Magic and it's see the change from you know, evolve to project and there was Slate was the time was a sub some brand of magic for a while. So actually the person, Katie who was, who was my rep back then is still, still working there and going strong. So we've done, I've done shows representing other other brands And I've done for my having my own brand and now it's Amilio footwear we showed at Match between trade shows and I've been that guy that when, when I started, I still represent a brand called Mitchell and Ness. And when I started with MITCHELL NESS Over 14 years ago, I just, we were doing about three, $4 million in sales and I got in my car and took a bag like so many reps out there do and just pounded the pavement, man.

Such opportunity and so much history. As you look, as you look back at all the shows you've been to, are there things you miss about the way the industry used to be? There's been much change. Is there like one thing you could bring back from the early days of going to trade shows that you'd love to see now?

I think the, the older trade shows even there was, there was the super show in Atlanta which was more sports related and Magic, it was just more of a spectacle. There was just more action. And you know, back in the, in the early 2000s when, when you know, rappers had brands and the booths were huge and it was just a fun time. It seems like it's. Although business is still happening, it just doesn't seem like it's happening the same way. And there's other ways to reach out to retailers, obviously things like Boutique Hub and others that maybe don't make it a necessity, but just the action at the trade show, these were two, three stories high and it was, it was nuts and South Polar and Magic was insane.

It's gotten a little bit different. Are there things about the industry today like getting back into it on this side of things that you appreciate? Like is there any part of the digital strategy that you're like, oh, I'm glad that this piece of wholesale exists now?

Yeah. I think one of the things that I think the barrier to entry back 20, 30 years ago was a lot harder. You had to. There was no viral out there. You couldn't go viral back then. Right. You had to go the old school way. I remember when I had my grand mad soul, which was small and going to talk with the buyer at Macy's and if you're a buyer back then it was tough to take on a small new brand. Why would you take space away from Ralph Lauren or one of these other brands to try this brand? I think now you can reach out directly to the consumer who then could drive the retailer and make a buzz that maybe a buyer might miss back in the day.

Yeah, it's almost like a roundabout like, it's a backdoor way, that virality of entry to the industry because the consumer's already demanding it, and so the big buyers can't turn away from that opportunity. So, I mean, you obviously have firsthand knowledge in this, so we've got to dig into this path a little bit. When you watched what happened to your own family, speaking of, you know, going viral and TikTok happened, all these things, and you started to watch this unfold, at what point did you look at that and go, oh, wow, like, there's a serious opportunity here. We need to start putting some things into place, you know, to truly build a brand out of this opportunity. What did that first, like, inkling kind of look like for you?

Well, I remember I had. So it started off just Charlie, my youngest daughter, who's now 20. This is. She was 15 at the time, just doing videos on TikTok. And we, you know, we saw a following increase. And it was. First it was 10,000, and then it was 20,000. I think when we were in. We're actually at. In Vegas for the magic show in August of 2019, and she had like 40,000 followers. And when we got home after that, she had 100,000. And people started recognizing her, not only in our town, but outside. And I was like, wait, yeah, come on. But then we also, my wife and I were pretty savvy as it relates to social media, that we just saw a Vine explode and then implode. And so we're like, is this something? So I have a friend, Mark, who actually worked at Magic, and he was doing T shirt. He was getting influencer licenses for T shirts. And I said, hey, you know, she was approaching a few hundred thousand followers. I said, is this anything yet? Like, does this mean anything? And he said, which is true. To this day, it depends on the influencer. Some. Some influencers who have millions of followers really can't sell product because they don't. They have followers, but they don't really have people that they engage with or they don't have that trust with their audience. And some people have 50,000 followers or 5,000 followers and make a real impact and create a business.

Yeah.

So I just kept thinking about that. And then when she hit a million, and then my other daughter Dixie got on, we were kind of like, we're just having fun. We're living in Connecticut. I'm in sales. So I had a little bit of flexibility to come out west. And by the. By January of the following. So that was in August. By January of 20, we our whole family was signed with UTA and they were talking about doing TV shows and Dixie doing music. So it happened pretty quickly. But I think it's, you know, I think you can leverage your audience no matter how small it is, if people trust you and you see that all the time. I have people I follow that have a very niche point of view or very niche area of expertise, but I trust them and I follow them for that reason.

I think that's the biggest piece, right, is the trust and the authenticity which can lead to product sales. And I think you're right. A lot of influencers, I think, tend to miss that. And from, like, the retail side of things, from the, from the, you know, small business side of things. When you're looking for someone to partner with, you know, I want to work with an influencer to blow up my business, you really have to be kind of careful with that. You know, who can I partner with that really does have a genuine authentic following that can show traffic and conversion and not just, you know, someone famous for my product? And so what? Nothing happened because of it. So what advice would you give to, you know, others who are looking to maybe partner with an influencer on the rise to help it be a win, win situation for both parties?

You know, well, on the first, I'll talk about, on what we did, and we were very lucky. I, you know, I had a nice career and we were doing fine, which gave us the ability to not partner with companies that weren't authentic to our family. We actually worked the opposite. Charlie would drink Dunkin Donuts in her videos all the time. It would drive me nuts because I'd say, you're making Dunkin Donuts and all these people rich, and they're not. So we actually pitched Dunkin Donuts and they knew exactly who Charlie was. So we willed that deal. Yeah, you know, I think, I think for whether it's a brand or a retailer, I think they, they can't expect an influencer to take them to the promised land. And we can't expect, you know, because Dixie and Charlie are partners in familial footwear that people are going to buy. You'll get some sales off of that. But whether it's a retailer or a manufacturer or brand, the product is still key. I think the influence. If you expect that you get someone who is even as big as Charlie to promote your brand and that's going to take you to where you want to go, it's just not realistic. There should be added value. And I think what you're talking about is the influencer. That person that represents your brand well and could give added value. But you still got to do the basics, the X's and O's and run your, you know, run your retail operation where your people are inspired to go in there and see all you're putting together. And that's the same thing for us. Like we, we want to make sure that our footwear for the prices we're selling at are the best they can be from a styling, comfort, price, every aspect. And we have the event, we have that extra advantage of being able to promote to our audience and be able to do cool stuff like this too.

Yeah, absolutely. It has to start with product first, business first. All authentic and like nose to the grindstone like you said. On that note, so we kind of talk about the influencer piece of it. What about like stores and brands on the flip? They're the ones that go viral and how do they capitalize on that when they do have something take off on TikTok to make sure that, that traffic and conversion?

I mean, I think, I think if I, if I had a retail store and we're, I think telling the story about what it's like to be. I know you asked me what happens when, but I do think what we miss sometimes is we always show the final product. Right. Right. We always show. Even in like, I think some of the, some of the things I love is when you get a young influencer that is also in the retail space and kind of lets you behind the curtain and shows, shows the shipment of how the, how the shipment comes in from the manufacturer, opening the boxes, trying them on, like putting them on the rack, like those things are really cool. And I don't think people understand that. And we're learning that too because I think we want to show like, hey, we're a legitimate footwear brand, but we make mistakes and we don't know what we're doing all the time. I think that is really interesting and showing that. And I think sometimes people think the actual day to day stuff is mundane and boring and it probably is to them because they're in it, but to the outside world, really letting someone behind the curtain on this stuff and showing what you're doing, you know, that is really interesting. Like there's so much side of business that people just don't know because we don't share it. And I think that's some of the things that will help smaller retailers and entrepreneurs. Like if you kind of just talk about it.

I totally agree with That I always call them like the unsexies, the things nobody talks about on Instagram, the things that doesn't drive a lot of like and engagement in your mind. But like, that's the thing people are really hungry for. I was just doing this talk the other day on generational marketing and, and really just kind of breaking down even in, in our industry, in this space, the difference in, you know, our, our Gen zers and younger millennials versus our Gen Xers. And I feel like the older that people get in this industry, they feel like it has to be more perfect, it has to be more finished, it has to be a little bit more flawless. They don't want to. As a woman, you don't want to show up without makeup, whatever it might be, but it's really the opposite. And I feel like it's TikTok that's really like blown the doors open on that. Just like real engaging behind the scenes. So do you feel like from your perspective and just experience that businesses today like TikTok is a must or that short form video is a must? Like where do you think people really need to hone in on their marketing, not just for today, but where industry's headed?

Yeah, I think TikTok is a must that. I think back to our point before the authenticity of it is big. People, people, you know, we sat around also we thought when my younger daughter Charlie, who got us all into this with, through TikTok, we sat around and were like, why? You know, why? And I think one of the things early TikTok did that Instagram didn't do. Instagram always had the perfect lighting, the perfect picture, just unrealistic things for whatever, whether it's a brand, a person, it just had an unrealistic view of what life is. And then you have Charlie and millions of kids like her just doing videos in their bedroom with no makeup on and they're, and their, you know, bed's a mess and their clothes are on the floor and that is what people like. And I think the same things could be said doing those videos of capture. And it's hard, right? I mean, it's even hard for me because sometimes I don't just pick up the phone and be like, oh my God, this is a great opportunity. Let me talk about, about this. But I do think capturing those moments that are not, that are not well lit and shiny and perfect, I think is, is how you build a following, how you build people to root for you, you know, and, and people don't understand like the retailers are dealing with cash flow issues. Rent, you know, some, some people, you know, manufacturers don't want to give credit to these retailers. So these small retailers are, are a lot of them are struggling, and it's not easy, and the rents are incredibly high. And, and telling that story, I think, will not guilt people into coming into your store, but will root for you. And when they're thinking about going to a big box retailer or going to a small retailer on Main Street, I think it makes a difference.

It's a huge difference. And you know what? Especially today, when I think about Sheen and Temu and like, all of these knockoff, you know, direct from China, competitors that have come into the US and there's a lot of small retailers that get really nervous about that. But the truth is just what you said, like, that's the thing that will drive traffic more than anything is the authenticity and the why are you doing what you're doing and why is this curated and unique and different? Those are things nobody can ever replicate.

Yeah, no, I, I, I agree. And you start to get again, there's, you know, there's followers and then there's fans. And I think, I think just because you have a bunch of followers, I don't, don't think. Doesn't mean you have fans. And fans are the ones that will buy your concert ticket, they'll buy your album. They will, they'll support you, they'll shop at your store, where followers are just kind of like, oh, yeah, I follow them and sometimes they come on my feed. Fans really look for you.

So that is spot on. Spot on. So how do you, with d' Amelio footwear, how do you turn followers into fans? Tell me, tell me the brand story so far. Tell me about the development of the footwear line and how are you converting them to be the raging fan?

Yeah, we definitely dealt with the, What I've done throughout the, throughout the time is always told the story of why we're doing something. And so I remember the first time Dixie started doing music, people were, people said, we gotta, we can't make these, let these influencers do music, because there's people who have been doing music for 10, 20 years that they're almost like we're cutting the line. And I would go out there and say, if it's not true, kind of show the receipts. And I would say, no, that's not true. Like, Dixie's been performing since she's been a kid. And I, I created the d' Amelio Family Channel. And as much as My kids probably write down, dad, don't do that. I thought it was helpful in telling the story. Yeah, and the same thing with, with the foot, with footwear, it's. We didn't just license it. We didn't go out and just work with a, work with a big company and say, hey, just take this label. We do everything. The designer who worked for Justice Simpson Footwear, Lauren, who's our, who's our head creative director and designer. Like, we have a real designer, we have real factory relationships. And, and I think one of the things we've tried to do is tell that story because I do think we're different than another influencer brand that's just slapping their name on stuff. And one of the things we tried to do is tell the story. Like when we went to Magic that the girls had been coming to trade shows for, since they've been babies and not working the booth, but been at the shows. And we did a video kind of talking about my history in this space and why we did this. And I think that's, that's been key for us. We got into footwear. First of all, footwear's hard. I mean, it's so hard and we're crazy to do it. And anyone who's in the footwear space is crazy. Ton of minimum order quantities are insane. Yeah, sizing, you know, just all the, all those things if we're a startup brand and then to go direct to consumer. Initially, we realized quickly how important retailers and boutiques are to tell a story, especially in footwear. But we knew we had some advantages with Lauren with our relationships with our agent in factories, and we knew we had a point of view and the girls really wanted to have well priced footwear that is, is very comfortable and fashion forward. And we've kind of got a little bit all over the board, but we've honed in on something. We just released a slipper that is for our first time, like, we've sold out sizes day one and really, really running, really running well. And we want to expand the brand into bags, accessories and other things. But it's been great and it's awesome because it's a family affair. And it's something that my wife Heidi is heavily involved in, from modeling to helping with, not necessarily design, but the influence of designs. I think that's important. So it's been great.

That's awesome. What do you think retailers should know about carrying the line?

I think the barrier to entry for some of the bigger retailers. So two things. One is we are legit footwear brand that makes high quality product in a of lot.